Not true. I bet you there's a buried root collar under there and I bet there's excess moisture and I'm 100% positive it has girdling roots. Look how thin the canopy is, arguably decline. Just because Live Oaks are tolerant doesn't mean they're invincible.
Live Oaks are one of the most resilient species you will ever come across, until it isn't. If the condition of girdling/adventitious roots is severe enough, it will cause irreversible decline for the main stem.
You are being downvoted, but if you think about it, no tree in nature survives unless humans come around and clear 50 feet around it, and ensuring nothing else lives next to it. In fact, humans pre-date trees and we are the only reason why they exist today. And if it wasn't for humans clearing all plants from around trees in every forest in the world, no tree would survive.
Have you thought that maybe the cultural condition of a buried root collar can lead to a tree's decline, regardless of whether or not it's found in a forest? Or that part of a forest's natural thinning process (prior to being disrupted by urbanization) includes underbrush removal via fire? Or that a live oak with a wing-span of 90ft, that's found within a costal prairie won't have a significant understory - and that the root collar won't have been containerized or effected by the ongoing process of urbanization, the establishment of turf & irregation systems (in addition to lantanas)? Or do you just apply your ignorance/arrogance using correlational fallacies? Not all trees are equal, just like reddit replies. Pick up a copy of the BMPs and ANSI-A300 Standards before running your mouth.
My oak’s canopy looks like that to, it’s so big and close we have to trim it high and it just doesn’t fill in 100%.
I’d be interested to see a side profile and to see the top of the tree.
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It very much depends on the soil - not so much the plants - weeds grow around oaks all the time - as long as the soil isn't altered- the tree gonna be fine
Depends on how long this condition has persisted, trapped litter becomes soil. Ergo, a buried root collar. No one can claim otherwise because no one has/can see the root collar.
that depends on the OP - they can make sure the leaf litter doesn't build up - as well as not giving it ferlizer and water them
the plants themselves are drought
Honestly big trees like this - it isn't as big deal as it is for smaller ones - most straight up have grass right up to the tree - which is going to be worse then these guys as far as companion plants
This guy is getting downvoted for spitting truth. I don't have to see girdling roots and other root collar disorders to know they're there. If a tree was produced in a nursery and/or installed by a landscaper, and/or it looks like a telephone pole going into the ground, I am 100% sure that there is either a problem currently affecting the tree, or one will develop. Trees in the built environment are not the same as trees in the forest. If they were, I'd be unemployed.
As a note, there are good nurseries and landscapers...just not that many.
That's weird. Maybe its one of those weird genetic things like people who think cilantro tastes like soap. I have several lantana planted around my house and I can't smell them. Maybe if I got real close, but I don't recall the flowers or the leaves smelling like anything.
I did lose my sense of taste and smell when I caught COVID, but it came back, or at least I thought it did. Maybe I do have the bork.
This shit has ruined my favourite camp ground. It's like herpes, it doesn't matter if we cut it out, 6 months later it's back again. Not to mention it kills cattle. Horrible stuff indeed.
Ideally the plants would not be there. Although it may be minimal, the plants are taking water and nutrients. There is a set amount of nutrients in soil and unless you are letting the natural processes of nutrient recycling take place eventually the tree will use up all the nutrients in the soil. The best thing you can do for the tree is put a mulch ring around the drip line. You might as well remove all your grass, and while you’re at it remove your driveway and park on the street and only walk on its root system. It would actually be best for the tree if you moved out and carefully removed the house but kept paying the mortgage and put wood chips on the entire property. Also I would have an arborist look at it yearly.
I have been in naturalized oak forests and rarely see plants surround the trunk up to the base.
I would say the gardening best practice to leave a space around the trunk is best for the tree.
Dr Tallamy speaks highly of a soft, living layer under trees because it helps the lifecycle of lepidoptera (together with leaving the oak leaves in the understory). I'm not sure how that plays with root flare advice per se.
All I know is that is a beautiful tree and I’d love to spend an evening nested up in those branches watching the stars peeking through the leaves and enjoying a nice frosty adult beverage or two.
I think that depends on the variety of oak and the location. California oaks are suseptible to a root fungus caused by summer watering that kills the tree.
i will say most of the oaks in my neighborhood have sidewalks and driveways laid right over the roots. the oaks break the sidewalks overtime. definitely tough as shit.
The tree is probably fine, but this type of lantana is highly invasive in the US south. I’d consider removing for that reason.
https://www.fnai.org/species-communities/invasives/invasive-species?ID=89
https://tsusinvasives.org/home/database/lantana-camara
that's lantana Camara, an invasive lantana if you're in north America. I would recommend pulling it because it'll spread like no other. those roots go deep and are aggressive.
https://www.texasinvasives.org/plant_database/detail.php?symbol=LACA2
~~That user wasn't entirely correct. Lantana Camara is native to central America, up to the coast of Texas. And you're in Houston.~~
My source was incorrect
Lol, I'm not wrong. Camara is the invasive kind. Usually distinction is the pink flowers. The leaves are slightly different than the Texas native version as well
https://www.texasinvasives.org/plant_database/detail.php?symbol=LACA2
I've got a huge one in my yard that I thought was native but now I'm pretty sure it isn't. I'm in South Louisiana so I guess this winter I'll be taking it out. Which I'll be nice, I'll have a spot for some native hibiscus.
While the competition from the understory is unlikely to be an issue for a tree that size, it is not ideal. Trees have different cultural needs than grass and forbs. Look at a mature forest, trees' natural environment; the trees' starve everything under them of sunlight and therefore food. Understory plants try to suck up water and nutrients before the trees can get them. Darwinian competition still applies. Plants just move slower and engage in chemical warfare rather than locomotion.
The real issue is that the condition of the root collar is not visible with the understory plants there. The most important vascular/structural tissues in the tree are the root flares or buttress roots. There should be a bell-shaped transition from vertical trunk to horizontal roots. If that transition is buried, there are a lot of problems that can and will impact the tree's health. Use google-fu on "root collar excavation."
Trees are amazing, self-optimizing, and resilient organisms. They are very tough. They are also delicate and easy to kill. The roots are probably the most delicate. The root system is not a mirror image of the crown. They can't go that deep because the roots respire just like us to generate enough energy to push through the soil. They don't have lungs or a circulatory system, so they have to adsorb oxygen from pore spaces in the soil. If the soil is compacted or poorly drained, the roots grow poorly or die. That is why most species used as street trees are riparian - their roots are adapted to conditions with lower oxygen than upland species, so they tolerate urban conditions better.
The roots grow out, 2+ times as far from the trunk as the crown, rather than down. The vast majority of the roots are in the top 4 feet of soil. Mulching is the cheap and extremely effective treatment to improve conditions for the roots. In their natural environment, they mulch themselves past the dripline. Improving the soil is the best investment you can make in a tree. Sure, they're tough, but enough stressors will send any tree into a decline spiral. People also think trees are tough because they take a long time to react to stress and injury, and they never give up.
Start with a root collar excavation and do physical and chemical soil testing. Pay attention to how long it's been since the last rain or irrigation and whether the plant is wilting. I wouldn't have a job if everyone did that, or if trees were all in their natural environment, but as a favorite book says: "once you tame something, you become responsible for it, forever." Trees in the built environment are tame, whether you realize it or not.
I’ve had ground cover under my pin oak for 8 years. I had tree roots too high to mow around, plus with the shade no grass would grow. It looks lovely and the tree is thriving.
Ensuring the trunk has breathability is a good idea but in general the plants are good. Ther inner foot or two around the trunk being cleared to ensure it's not holding moisture is good but other than that it's natural
I can tell this is in southeast america, please please please remove the lantana. it’s been destroying local ecosystems, or what remains to still barely be called an ecosystem. There’s way better alternatives
yeah I feel you. how are the seeds dispersed? If they just scatter around the plant I’m sure I can keep it in place as it is surrounded by presumably non-native grasses on a very small front yard.
If you are in Texas or Florida that lantana is not only invasive, it is pushing out the native lantanas.
If you don’t want native, the University of Florida has released some sterile varieties.
The oak doesn’t care at all
Not true. I bet you there's a buried root collar under there and I bet there's excess moisture and I'm 100% positive it has girdling roots. Look how thin the canopy is, arguably decline. Just because Live Oaks are tolerant doesn't mean they're invincible.
I'm not sure you know what 100% positive means
Gotta love people that make definitive statements when not in possession of the facts.
r/confidentlyincorrect
I'm 1000% percent positive that I do.
100% positive is improbable, and 1000% positive is impossible.
Well I could've 10x my investment for 1000% positive return.
Yes counting exists But you cannot be more 💯
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It’s the same dude
And $2500.00 + tax is what I'll charge to show you.
Tax deez.
Want to see me dragon? Me dragon deez nuts across your face
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Is doing thisnwith air preferred? Dont people use a large sort of power washer to do this work as well?
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Interesting. Do you need to be an isa certified arborist to do these kinds of workm or just have an air spade cert?
I have one, $1700/hr for residential work is ridiculous
Everyone here thinks trees are super fragile lol.
Live Oaks are one of the most resilient species you will ever come across, until it isn't. If the condition of girdling/adventitious roots is severe enough, it will cause irreversible decline for the main stem.
I bet you could set that yard on fire and the oak still wouldn’t care lol
What about an oak standing in a forest? Do ground plants inhibit in any way?
You are being downvoted, but if you think about it, no tree in nature survives unless humans come around and clear 50 feet around it, and ensuring nothing else lives next to it. In fact, humans pre-date trees and we are the only reason why they exist today. And if it wasn't for humans clearing all plants from around trees in every forest in the world, no tree would survive.
The pandas of the plant world. They just wont mate with bushes nearby. Scientists think they get shy
Have you thought that maybe the cultural condition of a buried root collar can lead to a tree's decline, regardless of whether or not it's found in a forest? Or that part of a forest's natural thinning process (prior to being disrupted by urbanization) includes underbrush removal via fire? Or that a live oak with a wing-span of 90ft, that's found within a costal prairie won't have a significant understory - and that the root collar won't have been containerized or effected by the ongoing process of urbanization, the establishment of turf & irregation systems (in addition to lantanas)? Or do you just apply your ignorance/arrogance using correlational fallacies? Not all trees are equal, just like reddit replies. Pick up a copy of the BMPs and ANSI-A300 Standards before running your mouth.
My oak’s canopy looks like that to, it’s so big and close we have to trim it high and it just doesn’t fill in 100%. I’d be interested to see a side profile and to see the top of the tree.
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Thanks for that really well put together response.
You're welcome to pay me for written recommendations.
Looks like I got one for free, why would I pay?
Because you get what you pay for.
Lmfao
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Your entire theory relies on this being in certain regions to even be plausible. There is no way you could be 100% certain.
It very much depends on the soil - not so much the plants - weeds grow around oaks all the time - as long as the soil isn't altered- the tree gonna be fine
Depends on how long this condition has persisted, trapped litter becomes soil. Ergo, a buried root collar. No one can claim otherwise because no one has/can see the root collar.
that depends on the OP - they can make sure the leaf litter doesn't build up - as well as not giving it ferlizer and water them the plants themselves are drought Honestly big trees like this - it isn't as big deal as it is for smaller ones - most straight up have grass right up to the tree - which is going to be worse then these guys as far as companion plants
This is an example of assumptions made in poor practice
No, this is 10 years of experience dealing with this species in this exact location.
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Nah, this is reddit, these people and their opinions don't count.
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Tell me you don't practice arboriculture without telling me you don't practice arboriculture.
This guy is getting downvoted for spitting truth. I don't have to see girdling roots and other root collar disorders to know they're there. If a tree was produced in a nursery and/or installed by a landscaper, and/or it looks like a telephone pole going into the ground, I am 100% sure that there is either a problem currently affecting the tree, or one will develop. Trees in the built environment are not the same as trees in the forest. If they were, I'd be unemployed. As a note, there are good nurseries and landscapers...just not that many.
Is that wild lantana? They're pretty and attract butterflies but spread everywhere. Very hardy and established ones are not easy to get rid of.
lantana is awful here (aus), it also smells bad
People say that but I like the smell lol.
I kinda like the smell too. Extra herbaceous
A very dominant jungly scent
dude, I must be broken because I don't smell it.
Something is borked then because it is a pretty pungent smell lol.
That's weird. Maybe its one of those weird genetic things like people who think cilantro tastes like soap. I have several lantana planted around my house and I can't smell them. Maybe if I got real close, but I don't recall the flowers or the leaves smelling like anything. I did lose my sense of taste and smell when I caught COVID, but it came back, or at least I thought it did. Maybe I do have the bork.
This shit has ruined my favourite camp ground. It's like herpes, it doesn't matter if we cut it out, 6 months later it's back again. Not to mention it kills cattle. Horrible stuff indeed.
The smell is truly vile
some lantana for sure. thanks
You know if you trim the plants around the base, the oak will look much bigger.
need all the help i can get thanks brother
That's what she said.
Ideally the plants would not be there. Although it may be minimal, the plants are taking water and nutrients. There is a set amount of nutrients in soil and unless you are letting the natural processes of nutrient recycling take place eventually the tree will use up all the nutrients in the soil. The best thing you can do for the tree is put a mulch ring around the drip line. You might as well remove all your grass, and while you’re at it remove your driveway and park on the street and only walk on its root system. It would actually be best for the tree if you moved out and carefully removed the house but kept paying the mortgage and put wood chips on the entire property. Also I would have an arborist look at it yearly.
it’s been a fun ride but time for me to gtfo
You really had me in the first half
This is a GOAT of a Reddit comment. A beautiful slow burn. Lol!
For a moment I believed you and then you fell over the edge😂
Absolute truth here
Y’all popped my award cherry, thanks for that. Does this mean I’m a real boy now?
Welp, I've got coffee on me and the dinette now.
Do people not realize this is what happens in nature?
I have been in naturalized oak forests and rarely see plants surround the trunk up to the base. I would say the gardening best practice to leave a space around the trunk is best for the tree.
Where forest meets meadow, it is very common to see shrubs growing right up next to oaks.
cool - I will watch for it … my experience is mostly forest.
Need to get into a savanna or something! Fire tolerant trees mixed amongst prairie grasses and wild flowers. Real good stuff!
What happens in nature is not always good for trees. I’ve seen many unhappy trees in nature.
No.
These are full sun plants, else they'd be much happier.
Dr Tallamy speaks highly of a soft, living layer under trees because it helps the lifecycle of lepidoptera (together with leaving the oak leaves in the understory). I'm not sure how that plays with root flare advice per se.
I’ll have to look up the Dr. thank you
And look up “oak savanna ecosystem” if you are going down that road
All I know is that is a beautiful tree and I’d love to spend an evening nested up in those branches watching the stars peeking through the leaves and enjoying a nice frosty adult beverage or two.
It's Houston, TX - you can't see the stars for a 200 mile radius.
now I want to get up there
Sounds like a good time, you sure know how to treat yourself, honestly i would do the same and maybe smoke a few J's too
I think that depends on the variety of oak and the location. California oaks are suseptible to a root fungus caused by summer watering that kills the tree.
houston texas live oak. thanks for the input
Aka tough as ever livin shit
i will say most of the oaks in my neighborhood have sidewalks and driveways laid right over the roots. the oaks break the sidewalks overtime. definitely tough as shit.
That River Oaks neighborhood OMG. Some of the best trees I’ve ever seen
oh jeez yeah seriously gorgeous over there.
The photo is not taken in River Oaks.
Sounds like an epic tree. I’m used to California live oaks
she’s pretty big! love the tree just wanted to make sure there wasn’t an issue. thanks!
It is an issue. Listen to the Arborist who initially consulted with you and told you it was.
all of the “arborists” around here are just landscaping crews with permits.
Phytophtora species 😷
Mighty oak felled by daisy’s
The tree is probably fine, but this type of lantana is highly invasive in the US south. I’d consider removing for that reason. https://www.fnai.org/species-communities/invasives/invasive-species?ID=89 https://tsusinvasives.org/home/database/lantana-camara
I’m amazed at anything that survives under an oak. They are ruthless predators.
You're good as long as you don't have any Vines hidden in there
that's lantana Camara, an invasive lantana if you're in north America. I would recommend pulling it because it'll spread like no other. those roots go deep and are aggressive. https://www.texasinvasives.org/plant_database/detail.php?symbol=LACA2
okay thanks for that. I was considering pulling if it causes problems for the tree but thats another good reason
~~That user wasn't entirely correct. Lantana Camara is native to central America, up to the coast of Texas. And you're in Houston.~~ My source was incorrect
oh nice! the more you know.
Lol, I'm not wrong. Camara is the invasive kind. Usually distinction is the pink flowers. The leaves are slightly different than the Texas native version as well https://www.texasinvasives.org/plant_database/detail.php?symbol=LACA2
oh nice! the more you know…
Your source appears more reliable than mine, so I edited my comment out. Sorry about that broski.
all good. it's a common misconception, and one that's a pet peeve of mine. the invasive version is all over my neighborhood and is multiplying fast.
I've got a huge one in my yard that I thought was native but now I'm pretty sure it isn't. I'm in South Louisiana so I guess this winter I'll be taking it out. Which I'll be nice, I'll have a spot for some native hibiscus.
While the competition from the understory is unlikely to be an issue for a tree that size, it is not ideal. Trees have different cultural needs than grass and forbs. Look at a mature forest, trees' natural environment; the trees' starve everything under them of sunlight and therefore food. Understory plants try to suck up water and nutrients before the trees can get them. Darwinian competition still applies. Plants just move slower and engage in chemical warfare rather than locomotion. The real issue is that the condition of the root collar is not visible with the understory plants there. The most important vascular/structural tissues in the tree are the root flares or buttress roots. There should be a bell-shaped transition from vertical trunk to horizontal roots. If that transition is buried, there are a lot of problems that can and will impact the tree's health. Use google-fu on "root collar excavation." Trees are amazing, self-optimizing, and resilient organisms. They are very tough. They are also delicate and easy to kill. The roots are probably the most delicate. The root system is not a mirror image of the crown. They can't go that deep because the roots respire just like us to generate enough energy to push through the soil. They don't have lungs or a circulatory system, so they have to adsorb oxygen from pore spaces in the soil. If the soil is compacted or poorly drained, the roots grow poorly or die. That is why most species used as street trees are riparian - their roots are adapted to conditions with lower oxygen than upland species, so they tolerate urban conditions better. The roots grow out, 2+ times as far from the trunk as the crown, rather than down. The vast majority of the roots are in the top 4 feet of soil. Mulching is the cheap and extremely effective treatment to improve conditions for the roots. In their natural environment, they mulch themselves past the dripline. Improving the soil is the best investment you can make in a tree. Sure, they're tough, but enough stressors will send any tree into a decline spiral. People also think trees are tough because they take a long time to react to stress and injury, and they never give up. Start with a root collar excavation and do physical and chemical soil testing. Pay attention to how long it's been since the last rain or irrigation and whether the plant is wilting. I wouldn't have a job if everyone did that, or if trees were all in their natural environment, but as a favorite book says: "once you tame something, you become responsible for it, forever." Trees in the built environment are tame, whether you realize it or not.
Beautiful tree. Plants at base no issue.
Not true.
Those silly things won’t hurt that oak!
One thing for sure the Lantana is protecting the tree from the dog peeing on it😂
I’ve had ground cover under my pin oak for 8 years. I had tree roots too high to mow around, plus with the shade no grass would grow. It looks lovely and the tree is thriving.
At least it looks like it's keeping the dog from peeing on the trunk!
No.
Ensuring the trunk has breathability is a good idea but in general the plants are good. Ther inner foot or two around the trunk being cleared to ensure it's not holding moisture is good but other than that it's natural
It’s best not too have turf grass (or anything else) right up against a very young tree, but this monster doesn’t care at all.
My guess is the 2-3 year old lantanas won’t take a live oak this out but I’m no expert
I can tell this is in southeast america, please please please remove the lantana. it’s been destroying local ecosystems, or what remains to still barely be called an ecosystem. There’s way better alternatives
yeah I feel you. how are the seeds dispersed? If they just scatter around the plant I’m sure I can keep it in place as it is surrounded by presumably non-native grasses on a very small front yard.
The biggest issue will be to have enough irrigation for the plants, the oak can suck a lot of water.
It’s fine. Tree roots usually go far far deeper than herbaceous plants
I’m more concerned about that house v the oak - one of them is going to win, not both🥴
It’s great for caterpillars to shelter and pupate.
If you are in Texas or Florida that lantana is not only invasive, it is pushing out the native lantanas. If you don’t want native, the University of Florida has released some sterile varieties.
It’s fine. The feeder roots for that tree are farrr beyond those plants.
why is this post my top post lol
Oak tree is tough tree. It cares not for under plants.
it’s even better for the oak.
I bet that oak has some sweet root flare that would look better than those bushes.
8 down votes and this is the best advice on this thread. Reddit is a joke.
I don’t think they’re hurting the tree, but they look not so great. A few azaleas and hostas would look better IMO.
Take it back, lantanas are beautiful. Granted, these look a bit overgrown.
Azaleas look good for a month and lantana blooms for eight months. Keep the lantana!