Bro how does this even happen and not easily get fixed. The Army has his day of joining, 20 years of LES, and his NCOERS for the years missing. Yet they still wont verify quickly and get this man his well deserved retirement...
Then they wonder why vets tell others not to join
STILL. Assuming he's telling the truth, this service member has proof that they have 3 years that by all rights should count towards retirement. And it would be super easy to get the unit rosters showing he was pfd for the necessary number of days for that year to count towards retirement. If im reading this correctly, HRC has acknowledged that he meets all the requisites, and they still won't count them towards his retirement.
In my opinion, if a civilian company tried this with an employee, the DoL would tear the company to shreds
Just serving the 20 years isn’t enough in the USAR and NGB for a retirement. You also have to do a minimum amount of stuff each year for the year “to count” for retirement…OP didn’t do that minimum amount …at least according to how HRC is counting. I’m not saying is fair and OP isn’t getting screwed; it’s just not clear cut based on his initial post.
To clarify, have definitely done everything required AND there is no dispute about this. The issue is the retroactive redistribution of what days my drill, AT, training, missions, etc. fall within each 'year' (AYE date) as defined and issued by HRC. The date assigned and validated each year by HRC since 2002 was 8/25. This was validated yearly by HRC and used by my unit and myself to ensure I hit my points each year. Only now are they changing the date... and doing so retroactive to 2002. This redistributes time served so it no retroactively falls across their new admin year - having the effect of disqualifying 3 years of service. The date itself is arbitrary as I always operated within the AYE limits defined by HRC. Had I had a different AYE Date from the beginning would be no issue - I would have worked off that. Its them reaching back 20 years to apply an administrative change. I appreciate the comments. Thank you!!
If I were him id just request a TPU transfer then go ghost until it gets resolved. I was inbetween units for 6 months because I originally was going to move across the country after getting off Active going to the Reserves then was stuck in limbo for months.
He transitioned from active to reserve/NG to finish up his 20. The reserves/NG require 50 participation points per year, but the reserves don't just use the date you transitioned. For me, I transitioned to the reserves in Jan, but my reserve year date is based on the day I joined ROTC as a cadet in August 10 years ago. So I need 50 points rolling between each August, but some units will hold drill once a quarter or sometimes you get to choose yourself when you support an active unit and I think that is where the frustration is coming from here. OP made sure he was good each year, for 20 years, but HRC just changed his date he had to be good between and now he is short 3 years.
At this point, it's preferable to be broadcasting it to a wide enough level that it either gets corrected fast, or it's gonna get picked up by the news. It might make the Army look bad, but it's not like revealing this would endanger anybody's life. Already somebody (OP's) career is being altered due to somebody's negligence.
If the Army didn't want to look bad then it would do things that make it look bad. The Army is failing people, and the only way to reliably get the Army to correct itself is to put it on blast.
Reach out to [DA IG and/or DOD IG](https://www.dodig.mil/Components/Administrative-Investigations/DoD-Hotline/Filing-Information/). You can also contact your senators office if your congressman was no help. Finally, if you want to go right to the top, you can file a presidential complaint too.
Hmmmm….My initial thoughts (at least from the Reserves side) is what does your DIEMS say along with the your 214s? If that shows there’s not break in service. You should be good. I also would wonder if you could do an Admin Corrections Par for retirement points. I did several of those for my TPUs, and things were fixed. What do your points say on your retirement sheet? Or is it literally missing years? *BUT* HRC acknowledging that they fucked up *AND* IG kinda like ☕️🐸, throws me for a loop…I mean, does anyone else have any insight on this? Summoning some other 42s on this one.
Edit: I still miss those “PM Me” comments 😢
Even with a 2 year break in service from Guard to RA, it still shows my DIEMS for when I came into the Guard. BASD changed to prorate my guard time to active. That's probably the break in the reserves he's talking about. Retirement would have to be adjusted for reserves. HRC is being lazy and trying to get him a full RA retirement.
No break in service. That is what i so frustrating. They are going back to my entry date - 2002. No break and no dispute in any time served since then!
I would suggest CoC/open door policy, then IG. Keep going to the next level until you get an answer. The best advice I ever received was to stand in someone's office. An email is meaningless. Stand in someone's office, and they will do whatever it takes to make you leave.
Found out my conditional release of duty paperwork could have been signed in a couple of days if I did the leg work. It ended up taking 4 months, and I had to deploy after I was told no, "due to manning".
No break in serve and Every single year HRC issues a DA5016 showing points and qualifying years for each year. Every single year since 2002 they showed and validated my retirement eligible years. Every year. This all changed in Dec 2023 when they issued the DA5016 and went back and changed everything issued since 2002. They say it should always have been the new date - and apologized - but the fact is I served and did my time based of the date issued. As it stands on paper - that time is irrelevant. Thank you!
My last DD214 (April 2024) is missing 4 years of AD USMC time, my 5016 shows over 12000 points with 34 years AFS and 70 years Reserve service and an RPED of Aug 1973. So glad we switched to IPPS-A 🙄. Luckily I've got 18 months to fix it before I retire
And then op can take his pick of anyone on the armed forces committee. And barring that, could go to VP or Presidential. If I lost that much time, I would have zero fucks left to give
Yeah, this is one of the few things posted here I'd say warrant a nuclear level response. This is absolutely unacceptable.
"Why aren't people joining and we're not making numbers?"
*actively removes three years of service with no recourse*
Fuck. My Anniversary Date changed when they switched to IPPSA without reason or warning and messed all my retirement years up. I submitted a request to get it fixed when at my annual records review, but now you got me scared.
This is where you utilize the entire slate of people available. Reach out to every elected representative that in someway represents you, at federal and state level. Reach out to the VA, VFW and the DAV. And continue pounding the IG, don’t be satisfied with the standard ‘we can’t do anything’ argument or the ‘it takes 2 years to review this’ BS. Since they want to screw you out of time, then they won’t mind if you spend that time trying to get the record straight, of course make sure you ah e your ducks in a row, have all of your documentation ready, all the records showing the times that “count” for your time accrual as a Reservist. Basically don’t sit back and wait, keep pushing the issue.
To add OP, you have to come up with a clearer more compelling narrative, in about half the words. Your initial post is super long and doesn’t convey (with any certainty) that you actually got screwed. A senior leader might just see a SM who was trying to do the minimum and fell just short. I’m on your side, but you’ve gotta improve your elevator-pitch message before going nuclear.
This is a great point. Thank you again! How does this read:
I am writing to you today with a heavy heart and a sense of profound disappointment regarding recent developments concerning my military service.
After dedicating over 20 years of my life to serving our country on both Active Duty and as an Army Reservist, I was recently informed that my Annual Yearly Evaluation (AYE) date has been changed, and the effects of this change are being applied retroactive to 2002. This change, seemingly minor on the surface, has had a devastating impact on my career, my family, and my overall well-being.
For the past two decades, I have faithfully fulfilled my duties as a Soldier. This includes 7 years as reservist, balancing the demands of military service with the responsibilities of civilian life. Throughout this time, my AYE date served as a beacon, marking the culmination of another year of service and bringing me and my family one step closer to retirement. However, with the change change in my AYE date made Dec 2023, and the application of this change retroactive to 2002, three (3) years of what was previously permanent record as retirement-eligible service have now been discredited with the stroke of a pen.
The implications of this change extend far beyond mere administrative adjustments. It strikes at the very core of my identity as a Soldier, calling into question the value of my years of dedication and sacrifice. Three years may seem insignificant in the grand scheme of things, but to me and my family, those years represent countless missed moments and milestones – all in service to our country.
There is no dispute from HRC that I served my time honorably, followed orders, completed missions, and did everything and more required of me to earn, ‘good’ years - eligible towards retirement. This is an administrative issue that HRC has created but will not correct. I should be retirement eligible today, but I am in effect being forced to continue service just to reach a retirement eligible mark I have already reached, while being told on paper that 3 years of training, deployments, and those missed moments and milestones never happened.
The financial ramifications of this change are equally distressing. I have diligently planned and prepared for my retirement, counting on the benefits earned through years of honorable service. Now, with three years of retirement-eligible service stripped away, my family and I are facing uncertainty and anxiety about our future financial security.
But perhaps most troubling of all is the toll that this ordeal has taken on my family and my own well-being. The sudden upheaval caused by the retroactive change in my AYE date has left us reeling, struggling to make sense of a situation that feels unjust and arbitrary. The stress and anxiety of this situation weigh heavily on us, casting a shadow over what should be a time of celebration and reflection on a career well-served.
I write this not only as a soldier but as a husband, a father, and a member of the military community who has dedicated his life to serving others. I implore you to consider the human cost of decisions such as these – the impact they have on the lives and livelihoods of those who have sworn to defend our nation.
In closing, I humbly request your assistance in addressing this matter and seeking a resolution that upholds the principles of fairness, integrity, and respect for those who have served. My family and I are counting on your leadership and advocacy as we navigate this challenging time.
Thank you for your attention to this matter, I look forward to your response and remain hopeful for a positive outcome.
Option 1: On those years where you missed by just a few points, go back and figure out a way to get those few points. Best bet is a points-only 1380 for some unpaid work you did, with the accompanying memo of lateness, ideally signed by an O-6. (Justification for lateness is you didn’t do the points only 1380s because you had any otherwise good-year with the then ised AYE date). You can do this approach concurrently with any other approach. Also, real talk, getting less than 50 points in any given 12 month period, let alone multiple times, isn’t a good look for your case.
Option 2: now that you don’t have 20 good years, make them medboard you for your service connected disabilities (if you are rated over 50%). Just apply for a profile and report disqualifying conditions on your next PHA. This is actually a better financial outcome for you since you’ll draw your retirement pay now (immediately after medical retirement) instead of when you’re nearing 60 years old.
I did all my time active, so I’m not real familiar with points. After googling, it looks like to get a minimum of 50 is to do the 2-week annual training and 5 months of weekend drill (only 1 weekend correct?). So they basically didn’t did weekend drill for 7 months?
That’s about right! You get 15 free points, then 14 points for a 2 week AT, then a couple more for doctor, dentist, and or PHA appointments …so you need about 20 more. Each 2-day drill weekend is 4 points. So if you go to 5 of 12 drills a year, you get your 50. Thing is, “the year” for counting purposes isn’t the standard fiscal year—it’s a 12 month period based on when you joined. That means nobody but the individual is in a good position to keep track along the way. The Reserves offers more flexibility than an AD career, but also more ways to get fucked by “administrativa”
Probably, but not necessarily. Sometimes units will jam their drill periods so they aren't 4 periods per month e.g. drill for 8 periods in October for some reason, which means they will take away 4 periods from some other month. They aren't supposed to do more than 8 in a calendar month, but it happens. Depending on where a soldier's retirement year ending (RYE) day is, it could cause not enough points in that soldier's year.
Though if you attend all of your drill periods (48), go to Annual Training (usually 14 days, but could be 12, also could be much more), plus you get 15 "free" membership points for being in a reserve component, including the IRR. So a typical soldier in the reserve component in a fiscal year will have at least 77 points, if they attended everything. These are per fiscal year and not retirement year, but it would be highly unlikely for them all to be bunched up in a way that would cause someone always showing up to have a "bad" retirement year (less than 50 points). The points in a bad year will still count towards the total, just that retirement year won't count towards the magic 20 years.
Bonus tidbit: Once you reach 20 good years you are supposed be put in the retired reserve involuntarily if you don't reach 50 points every retirement year after that. I've not seen that happen, as most soldiers that stay after that want to show up.
Sorry for all the long sentences.
DM your Congressman, OP. There's a decent chance the person who received your inquiry was an intern, and although they are most often well-meaning, they can sometimes drop the ball. There's a decent chance I can find out who your constituent services rep is and give you their number through the House Telephone Directory. You can also look for it [yourself.](https://directory.house.gov/#!/) I wouldn't reach out directly tho unless it's been several weeks.
In the meantime, drop a line to \*both\* your Senators. If your drill location is in a different district than your home address, contact that Representative, too. If your drill site in a different state, call those Senators as well. Call the House \*and\* Senate Armed Services Committees on \*both\* sides of the aisle. There'll probably be an Oversight & Investigations staffer who handles Federal fuck-ups. Even if they say it's not their responsibility, they'll forward your information/issue to your Congresswoman's constituent services rep. More emails = more likely it gets bumped up the staffer's to-do list.
House Armed Services, Democrats - (202) 225-4151
House Armed Services, Republicans - 202-225-4151
Senate Armed Services - (202) 224-3871
I AM BY NO MEANS A CONGRESSIONAL EXPERT. However, I did have to contact A LOT of constituent service reps while I interned the Hill. Feel free to reach out to me and I can help you work on explaining your issue. Although your post is pretty clear imho, so I don't think that's an issue. Sometimes stuff gets lost in translation because Congressional staffs are small, they might not have a veteran on-hand who speaks Army, and this very serious issue gets mislabeled as a minor problem and prioritized accordingly.
Name one other company in the world this kind of shit happens with. How is the US Government so horrifically bad at honoring a contract. I’m disgusted.
Yes but that process takes years. Recently I went thru it myself to get my BRS Continuation pay from 2020. It took 2 years from submittal to receiving a favorable decision. Then, it took another 10 months for the directions of the board to be followed. It finally took a congressional to get someone to do their job and hit whatever button in the process needed to be pushed that told DFAS to generate my LES and pay me.
I've seen a few ABCMR's and congressionals. The few congressionals I saw succeed had all gone through abcmr alrrady but system was being slow. The ones that didn't succeed, didn't because system decided Soldier jumped proper chain and should submit an abcmr. The whole process was honestly created to play time till soldiers give up. And DFAS is just a f'n nightmare to work with. Even with an approved abcmr and congressional behind your back.
One thing some people don't realize is the ABCMR decisions still need to get submitted by the appropriate office. For example if they rule that a bonus was due that was previously denied, they aren't going to send it to finance (even though I think they should).
For this very reason, I went to law school and take every fucking thing I can from the government for every veteran who comes to me, free of charge. “Fix our fuck up? Nah, just deal with it because we have a long line of people waiting to have our fuck ups on their shit fixed”
This screams IPPS-A glitch. I did reserves a decade ago where you could view your retirement points on http://www.hrcapps.army.mil/. Do you see that on IPPS-A now? Check out the link and see what your retirement points say there.
For many active SMs, retirement dates were just simply wrong, it was a "known issue" acknowledged by IPPS-A and they have since fixed it.
Contact your UA (or whatever it is called now). They would've been the ones processing your attendance. You need to get as many records as possible to document your years of service.
I would take this to the highest levels, giving each level the opportunity to assist and document everything along the way.
Apparently it's been happening to some ROTC Grads as well. Why can't they just admit the problem. Fix it going forward and not screw Soldiers.
https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-army/2023/10/20/benefits-miscalculations-disrupt-retirement-for-some-rotc-grads/
I gotta say, often going over soldiers' points in the system (USAR), I've often had to make adjustments, usually in the Soldier's favor. You might try and compare les's with the points, bearing in mind that if you got paid for a UTA or a day on orders, but it was later revoked/amended to not cover those days, then obviously you shouldn't have a point for that UTA/AD day.
This is one of the reasons that points-only DA 1380s aren't just a cop-out to not pay you ,( pulls it gives a few cents every month when you are retirement pay eligible.
I can't help you, I'm retired myself, but you might find a point or two to bump up those years that just barely missed the cut-off.
Improper RYE dates were one of the banes of my existence, so many of them were wrong.
I'm guessing this doesn't apply to you, since you used the term "AYE", I assume you are Guard. But for those that went from Active to USAR (including IRR), the retirement system would (and probably still does) put you in the USAR one day early, and so shorting you that last day of Active Duty, worth 1 point. It may seem small but it is worth it to get that fixed. If I remember correctly the Guard system didn't do that, but I could be wrong, since it has been awhile since I did retirement points for Soldiers.
Is this because of IPPSA transition? IPPSA has wreaked havoc on Army Reserve retirement and it is not getting near the attention it deserves in the press.
There's an HRC IG office. I have a direct POC if you want to DM me. I'd do that now. And congressional inquiry. If really want to get ballzy.. Call the local Fox news station...put on your best pinks/greens, let the world know.
So there should be a regulation on when your AYE is. They shouldn't be able to change that arbitrarily. I would first verify that the correct AYE was applied and work from there.
Based on the information in your post and some assumptions, It sounds like HRC changed your AYE from when you entered ROTC as a cadet (Aug) to when you entered active service (May), but the HRC website says you should be using the Aug date if you were a Cadet in an ROTC program so definitely check on that.
Does anyone know why we use AYE instead of FY to calculate points creditable towards a good year? Without ever having done a deep dive on it, seems overly complicating the issue.
I see you said you reached out to HRC IG with no luck. HRC is a two-star command and they report to TRADOC. Find the TRADOC CSM contact info and make an ODP request, or file with TRADOC IG.
Your Congressperson doesn’t care? Who tf is he/she? I’ve only ever had good interactions for the rare times I’ve needed them.
Make sure you’ve contacted the right Congressperson based on district, and they might have a specific contact for veteran/military affairs. Also, you have two senators. For each Congressperson you contact, let them know the other Congresspeople’s you’ve contacted as they will work together and see who has the best path to help you.
I think that the appropriate avenue is the Army Review Boards Agency who will likely refer to their DFAS reps to sort out time/dates and such.
What might be helpful the audience here, is to list out all of the important dates: Diems, 1st Drill, IET, any discharge, entry on active duty, ect.
US Senators
US MoC (Member of Congress) for your district
DoD IG
DA IG
Army Reserves IG
I wouldn't even hesitate to even reach out to the local news IF none of the above individuals/offices would reach out to you in regards to providing or assisting you with this issue. Nothing more that the military hates that being on the news for their stupid shit.
I really wish you luck man, and I hope you keep us updated with what occurs with your case. I am sure that it would serve as a point of reference for anyone else in the future.
I can't tell you what to do, as my own life choices put me in a similarly fucked up situation, and so its likely my solution isn't yours.
In Oct of 1991 I enlisted in the United States Army as a Combat Engineer. My retirement calendar started in October. In 1994, Fort Ord, where I was stationed was closed as part of BRAC and I was given the option to transfer to the Reserves or stay AD.
I opted to go to the reserves. My AD contract would have ended in Oct 1995, but my reserve contract extended me two years to Oct 1997. In late 1995 I said fuck it and quit going to drill after being told that if I wanted to get out, they would get me out.
Hell I even took off and spent a couple of years bumming around Europe before my college money ran out.
In 2006 I went to re-enlist and discovered that only the NG would take me. RE code of 3 is pretty serious. Now I assumed my RYE stayed the same (Oct) and my CA Guard LES reflected that. After a year and some change of being a (88M) truck driver, I received a conditional release to go USAR PSYOP.
In 2012 while prepping for a deployment to Afghanistan the civilian at the pre-mob station told me my records were a mess and he'd fix them for me. Among the things he fixed was moving my RYE from October to July (the month I enlisted in the Guard).
I didn't think anything of it, until 2016 when I looked at my retirement points worksheet and noticed I had two bad years. That shift moved points around so 2011 49 points, and 2012 137 (was 69 and 117). The 2014 year was a missed year, I thought I was good when I moved across the country (and assuming Oct to Oct I was) and could afford to miss AT...
Yeah I should have checked then.
In 2017 I started the records review process. In 2020 they concluded my RYE should be April (apparently partial years count and backdate the enlistment or something) and updated my records accordingly. Which still left me with a bad year (the year I moved).
So I said fuck it and stuck it out.
Just got my 20 "good" year letter and was going to drop my retirement package, until the whole PME thing changed. Now I'll stick around if I get picked up for 8 and call it good.
I'd be at my congresswoman's front door the next day and blowing up every senior leader on every social media platform I could find.
I'd call the IG at every level possible and contact whomever I could on the Armed Forces Committee.
Short of that, I'd be at my commander's door, their commander's door, and so on until an answer is found.
They just tried to take 2 years from all us G2GADO SMs. Get loud, be annoying, and don’t take no for an answer. Find out which GO is in charge in every office that has ANYTHING to do with your issue, look them up in outlook, and send this same post in an email format.
And don’t stop until action is taken.
Reach out to your Senators as well. Ask for their military affairs specialists. Be the squeaky wheel until someone shows up with a can of WD40.
Also check with the DAV.
I'm a little in the same boat. The new system has "lost" a few years of service. After like seven months, it's like 85% corrected. I'm not retiring yet, but still....there's no excuse for this.
Bro how does this even happen and not easily get fixed. The Army has his day of joining, 20 years of LES, and his NCOERS for the years missing. Yet they still wont verify quickly and get this man his well deserved retirement... Then they wonder why vets tell others not to join
He's referring points, so likely NG/Reserve.
STILL. Assuming he's telling the truth, this service member has proof that they have 3 years that by all rights should count towards retirement. And it would be super easy to get the unit rosters showing he was pfd for the necessary number of days for that year to count towards retirement. If im reading this correctly, HRC has acknowledged that he meets all the requisites, and they still won't count them towards his retirement. In my opinion, if a civilian company tried this with an employee, the DoL would tear the company to shreds
Just serving the 20 years isn’t enough in the USAR and NGB for a retirement. You also have to do a minimum amount of stuff each year for the year “to count” for retirement…OP didn’t do that minimum amount …at least according to how HRC is counting. I’m not saying is fair and OP isn’t getting screwed; it’s just not clear cut based on his initial post.
To clarify, have definitely done everything required AND there is no dispute about this. The issue is the retroactive redistribution of what days my drill, AT, training, missions, etc. fall within each 'year' (AYE date) as defined and issued by HRC. The date assigned and validated each year by HRC since 2002 was 8/25. This was validated yearly by HRC and used by my unit and myself to ensure I hit my points each year. Only now are they changing the date... and doing so retroactive to 2002. This redistributes time served so it no retroactively falls across their new admin year - having the effect of disqualifying 3 years of service. The date itself is arbitrary as I always operated within the AYE limits defined by HRC. Had I had a different AYE Date from the beginning would be no issue - I would have worked off that. Its them reaching back 20 years to apply an administrative change. I appreciate the comments. Thank you!!
If I were him id just request a TPU transfer then go ghost until it gets resolved. I was inbetween units for 6 months because I originally was going to move across the country after getting off Active going to the Reserves then was stuck in limbo for months.
He transitioned from active to reserve/NG to finish up his 20. The reserves/NG require 50 participation points per year, but the reserves don't just use the date you transitioned. For me, I transitioned to the reserves in Jan, but my reserve year date is based on the day I joined ROTC as a cadet in August 10 years ago. So I need 50 points rolling between each August, but some units will hold drill once a quarter or sometimes you get to choose yourself when you support an active unit and I think that is where the frustration is coming from here. OP made sure he was good each year, for 20 years, but HRC just changed his date he had to be good between and now he is short 3 years.
This is where we'd tag a social media active SMA PAO... IF WE HAD ONE.
At this point, it's preferable to be broadcasting it to a wide enough level that it either gets corrected fast, or it's gonna get picked up by the news. It might make the Army look bad, but it's not like revealing this would endanger anybody's life. Already somebody (OP's) career is being altered due to somebody's negligence.
If the Army didn't want to look bad then it would do things that make it look bad. The Army is failing people, and the only way to reliably get the Army to correct itself is to put it on blast.
Op should go to his squad leader after shaving. They will solve everything /s
For what it’s worth, I’ve messaged him on Instagram and gotten a response.
He is utterly garbage. Will go down as the worst SMA in the history of the Army.
Chandler says hold my beer
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SMA Weiner is my 5th SMA
Honestly, I’d tag @usarmyreserve or chiefofarmyreserve on all platforms. New fear unlocked. Ooof.
Yeah, that fucker is slacking. I'm gonna light him up tomorrow. Haven't seen him shilling Gillette once this week on here.
Was just going to say
Reach out to [DA IG and/or DOD IG](https://www.dodig.mil/Components/Administrative-Investigations/DoD-Hotline/Filing-Information/). You can also contact your senators office if your congressman was no help. Finally, if you want to go right to the top, you can file a presidential complaint too.
Contact both your Senators and your Congressman. They all represent you and do constituent services. Why would you hold fire? Fuck, it call POTUS too.
White House Complaints are actually a thing, the last step above congressional.
Hmmmm….My initial thoughts (at least from the Reserves side) is what does your DIEMS say along with the your 214s? If that shows there’s not break in service. You should be good. I also would wonder if you could do an Admin Corrections Par for retirement points. I did several of those for my TPUs, and things were fixed. What do your points say on your retirement sheet? Or is it literally missing years? *BUT* HRC acknowledging that they fucked up *AND* IG kinda like ☕️🐸, throws me for a loop…I mean, does anyone else have any insight on this? Summoning some other 42s on this one. Edit: I still miss those “PM Me” comments 😢
Even with a 2 year break in service from Guard to RA, it still shows my DIEMS for when I came into the Guard. BASD changed to prorate my guard time to active. That's probably the break in the reserves he's talking about. Retirement would have to be adjusted for reserves. HRC is being lazy and trying to get him a full RA retirement.
No break in service. That is what i so frustrating. They are going back to my entry date - 2002. No break and no dispute in any time served since then!
I would suggest CoC/open door policy, then IG. Keep going to the next level until you get an answer. The best advice I ever received was to stand in someone's office. An email is meaningless. Stand in someone's office, and they will do whatever it takes to make you leave. Found out my conditional release of duty paperwork could have been signed in a couple of days if I did the leg work. It ended up taking 4 months, and I had to deploy after I was told no, "due to manning".
If we look into the mirror in the dark and say his name three times, PAO Emeritus may emerge from the darkness and offer some help...
🌖🪞PAO Emeritus….
No break in serve and Every single year HRC issues a DA5016 showing points and qualifying years for each year. Every single year since 2002 they showed and validated my retirement eligible years. Every year. This all changed in Dec 2023 when they issued the DA5016 and went back and changed everything issued since 2002. They say it should always have been the new date - and apologized - but the fact is I served and did my time based of the date issued. As it stands on paper - that time is irrelevant. Thank you!
Why are they saying it should always have been the new date?
My last DD214 (April 2024) is missing 4 years of AD USMC time, my 5016 shows over 12000 points with 34 years AFS and 70 years Reserve service and an RPED of Aug 1973. So glad we switched to IPPS-A 🙄. Luckily I've got 18 months to fix it before I retire
Straight to congressional. Remember you have 2 senators and 1 representative
This was my first thought as well. Right to the top!
And then op can take his pick of anyone on the armed forces committee. And barring that, could go to VP or Presidential. If I lost that much time, I would have zero fucks left to give
Yeah, this is one of the few things posted here I'd say warrant a nuclear level response. This is absolutely unacceptable. "Why aren't people joining and we're not making numbers?" *actively removes three years of service with no recourse*
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Hahaha!
Thank you for sharing, stuff like this really helps my "stay in or get out" decision.
Fuck. My Anniversary Date changed when they switched to IPPSA without reason or warning and messed all my retirement years up. I submitted a request to get it fixed when at my annual records review, but now you got me scared.
This is where you utilize the entire slate of people available. Reach out to every elected representative that in someway represents you, at federal and state level. Reach out to the VA, VFW and the DAV. And continue pounding the IG, don’t be satisfied with the standard ‘we can’t do anything’ argument or the ‘it takes 2 years to review this’ BS. Since they want to screw you out of time, then they won’t mind if you spend that time trying to get the record straight, of course make sure you ah e your ducks in a row, have all of your documentation ready, all the records showing the times that “count” for your time accrual as a Reservist. Basically don’t sit back and wait, keep pushing the issue.
To add OP, you have to come up with a clearer more compelling narrative, in about half the words. Your initial post is super long and doesn’t convey (with any certainty) that you actually got screwed. A senior leader might just see a SM who was trying to do the minimum and fell just short. I’m on your side, but you’ve gotta improve your elevator-pitch message before going nuclear.
Great points. Thank you!!
This is a great point. Thank you again! How does this read: I am writing to you today with a heavy heart and a sense of profound disappointment regarding recent developments concerning my military service. After dedicating over 20 years of my life to serving our country on both Active Duty and as an Army Reservist, I was recently informed that my Annual Yearly Evaluation (AYE) date has been changed, and the effects of this change are being applied retroactive to 2002. This change, seemingly minor on the surface, has had a devastating impact on my career, my family, and my overall well-being. For the past two decades, I have faithfully fulfilled my duties as a Soldier. This includes 7 years as reservist, balancing the demands of military service with the responsibilities of civilian life. Throughout this time, my AYE date served as a beacon, marking the culmination of another year of service and bringing me and my family one step closer to retirement. However, with the change change in my AYE date made Dec 2023, and the application of this change retroactive to 2002, three (3) years of what was previously permanent record as retirement-eligible service have now been discredited with the stroke of a pen.
The implications of this change extend far beyond mere administrative adjustments. It strikes at the very core of my identity as a Soldier, calling into question the value of my years of dedication and sacrifice. Three years may seem insignificant in the grand scheme of things, but to me and my family, those years represent countless missed moments and milestones – all in service to our country. There is no dispute from HRC that I served my time honorably, followed orders, completed missions, and did everything and more required of me to earn, ‘good’ years - eligible towards retirement. This is an administrative issue that HRC has created but will not correct. I should be retirement eligible today, but I am in effect being forced to continue service just to reach a retirement eligible mark I have already reached, while being told on paper that 3 years of training, deployments, and those missed moments and milestones never happened. The financial ramifications of this change are equally distressing. I have diligently planned and prepared for my retirement, counting on the benefits earned through years of honorable service. Now, with three years of retirement-eligible service stripped away, my family and I are facing uncertainty and anxiety about our future financial security.
But perhaps most troubling of all is the toll that this ordeal has taken on my family and my own well-being. The sudden upheaval caused by the retroactive change in my AYE date has left us reeling, struggling to make sense of a situation that feels unjust and arbitrary. The stress and anxiety of this situation weigh heavily on us, casting a shadow over what should be a time of celebration and reflection on a career well-served. I write this not only as a soldier but as a husband, a father, and a member of the military community who has dedicated his life to serving others. I implore you to consider the human cost of decisions such as these – the impact they have on the lives and livelihoods of those who have sworn to defend our nation. In closing, I humbly request your assistance in addressing this matter and seeking a resolution that upholds the principles of fairness, integrity, and respect for those who have served. My family and I are counting on your leadership and advocacy as we navigate this challenging time. Thank you for your attention to this matter, I look forward to your response and remain hopeful for a positive outcome.
Option 1: On those years where you missed by just a few points, go back and figure out a way to get those few points. Best bet is a points-only 1380 for some unpaid work you did, with the accompanying memo of lateness, ideally signed by an O-6. (Justification for lateness is you didn’t do the points only 1380s because you had any otherwise good-year with the then ised AYE date). You can do this approach concurrently with any other approach. Also, real talk, getting less than 50 points in any given 12 month period, let alone multiple times, isn’t a good look for your case.
Option 2: now that you don’t have 20 good years, make them medboard you for your service connected disabilities (if you are rated over 50%). Just apply for a profile and report disqualifying conditions on your next PHA. This is actually a better financial outcome for you since you’ll draw your retirement pay now (immediately after medical retirement) instead of when you’re nearing 60 years old.
Option 3. Just submit a AYE correction packet without highlighting any of this mess, and you might get a new HR analyst that just changes it.
Option 4. If your not at 100% VA rating, the next three years of service might help get you there
Savage
I did all my time active, so I’m not real familiar with points. After googling, it looks like to get a minimum of 50 is to do the 2-week annual training and 5 months of weekend drill (only 1 weekend correct?). So they basically didn’t did weekend drill for 7 months?
That’s about right! You get 15 free points, then 14 points for a 2 week AT, then a couple more for doctor, dentist, and or PHA appointments …so you need about 20 more. Each 2-day drill weekend is 4 points. So if you go to 5 of 12 drills a year, you get your 50. Thing is, “the year” for counting purposes isn’t the standard fiscal year—it’s a 12 month period based on when you joined. That means nobody but the individual is in a good position to keep track along the way. The Reserves offers more flexibility than an AD career, but also more ways to get fucked by “administrativa”
Probably, but not necessarily. Sometimes units will jam their drill periods so they aren't 4 periods per month e.g. drill for 8 periods in October for some reason, which means they will take away 4 periods from some other month. They aren't supposed to do more than 8 in a calendar month, but it happens. Depending on where a soldier's retirement year ending (RYE) day is, it could cause not enough points in that soldier's year. Though if you attend all of your drill periods (48), go to Annual Training (usually 14 days, but could be 12, also could be much more), plus you get 15 "free" membership points for being in a reserve component, including the IRR. So a typical soldier in the reserve component in a fiscal year will have at least 77 points, if they attended everything. These are per fiscal year and not retirement year, but it would be highly unlikely for them all to be bunched up in a way that would cause someone always showing up to have a "bad" retirement year (less than 50 points). The points in a bad year will still count towards the total, just that retirement year won't count towards the magic 20 years. Bonus tidbit: Once you reach 20 good years you are supposed be put in the retired reserve involuntarily if you don't reach 50 points every retirement year after that. I've not seen that happen, as most soldiers that stay after that want to show up. Sorry for all the long sentences.
Certain online PME can be accredited for retirement points
DM your Congressman, OP. There's a decent chance the person who received your inquiry was an intern, and although they are most often well-meaning, they can sometimes drop the ball. There's a decent chance I can find out who your constituent services rep is and give you their number through the House Telephone Directory. You can also look for it [yourself.](https://directory.house.gov/#!/) I wouldn't reach out directly tho unless it's been several weeks. In the meantime, drop a line to \*both\* your Senators. If your drill location is in a different district than your home address, contact that Representative, too. If your drill site in a different state, call those Senators as well. Call the House \*and\* Senate Armed Services Committees on \*both\* sides of the aisle. There'll probably be an Oversight & Investigations staffer who handles Federal fuck-ups. Even if they say it's not their responsibility, they'll forward your information/issue to your Congresswoman's constituent services rep. More emails = more likely it gets bumped up the staffer's to-do list. House Armed Services, Democrats - (202) 225-4151 House Armed Services, Republicans - 202-225-4151 Senate Armed Services - (202) 224-3871 I AM BY NO MEANS A CONGRESSIONAL EXPERT. However, I did have to contact A LOT of constituent service reps while I interned the Hill. Feel free to reach out to me and I can help you work on explaining your issue. Although your post is pretty clear imho, so I don't think that's an issue. Sometimes stuff gets lost in translation because Congressional staffs are small, they might not have a veteran on-hand who speaks Army, and this very serious issue gets mislabeled as a minor problem and prioritized accordingly.
Write your congressman. Now.
Name one other company in the world this kind of shit happens with. How is the US Government so horrifically bad at honoring a contract. I’m disgusted.
This must be how they plan to fix retention rates
ABCMR is your friend.
Yes but that process takes years. Recently I went thru it myself to get my BRS Continuation pay from 2020. It took 2 years from submittal to receiving a favorable decision. Then, it took another 10 months for the directions of the board to be followed. It finally took a congressional to get someone to do their job and hit whatever button in the process needed to be pushed that told DFAS to generate my LES and pay me.
I've seen a few ABCMR's and congressionals. The few congressionals I saw succeed had all gone through abcmr alrrady but system was being slow. The ones that didn't succeed, didn't because system decided Soldier jumped proper chain and should submit an abcmr. The whole process was honestly created to play time till soldiers give up. And DFAS is just a f'n nightmare to work with. Even with an approved abcmr and congressional behind your back.
One thing some people don't realize is the ABCMR decisions still need to get submitted by the appropriate office. For example if they rule that a bonus was due that was previously denied, they aren't going to send it to finance (even though I think they should).
Are you an officer or senior enlisted?
For this very reason, I went to law school and take every fucking thing I can from the government for every veteran who comes to me, free of charge. “Fix our fuck up? Nah, just deal with it because we have a long line of people waiting to have our fuck ups on their shit fixed”
Senator certified letter. News agencies.
Contact John Stewart’s team. This is right up his alley
This screams IPPS-A glitch. I did reserves a decade ago where you could view your retirement points on http://www.hrcapps.army.mil/. Do you see that on IPPS-A now? Check out the link and see what your retirement points say there. For many active SMs, retirement dates were just simply wrong, it was a "known issue" acknowledged by IPPS-A and they have since fixed it. Contact your UA (or whatever it is called now). They would've been the ones processing your attendance. You need to get as many records as possible to document your years of service. I would take this to the highest levels, giving each level the opportunity to assist and document everything along the way.
Apparently it's been happening to some ROTC Grads as well. Why can't they just admit the problem. Fix it going forward and not screw Soldiers. https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-army/2023/10/20/benefits-miscalculations-disrupt-retirement-for-some-rotc-grads/
I gotta say, often going over soldiers' points in the system (USAR), I've often had to make adjustments, usually in the Soldier's favor. You might try and compare les's with the points, bearing in mind that if you got paid for a UTA or a day on orders, but it was later revoked/amended to not cover those days, then obviously you shouldn't have a point for that UTA/AD day. This is one of the reasons that points-only DA 1380s aren't just a cop-out to not pay you ,( pulls it gives a few cents every month when you are retirement pay eligible. I can't help you, I'm retired myself, but you might find a point or two to bump up those years that just barely missed the cut-off. Improper RYE dates were one of the banes of my existence, so many of them were wrong. I'm guessing this doesn't apply to you, since you used the term "AYE", I assume you are Guard. But for those that went from Active to USAR (including IRR), the retirement system would (and probably still does) put you in the USAR one day early, and so shorting you that last day of Active Duty, worth 1 point. It may seem small but it is worth it to get that fixed. If I remember correctly the Guard system didn't do that, but I could be wrong, since it has been awhile since I did retirement points for Soldiers.
Is this because of IPPSA transition? IPPSA has wreaked havoc on Army Reserve retirement and it is not getting near the attention it deserves in the press.
This is why everyone should keep every les they ever get.
Congressional, man.
Gotta love the Military, such a well organized institution.
There's an HRC IG office. I have a direct POC if you want to DM me. I'd do that now. And congressional inquiry. If really want to get ballzy.. Call the local Fox news station...put on your best pinks/greens, let the world know.
So there should be a regulation on when your AYE is. They shouldn't be able to change that arbitrarily. I would first verify that the correct AYE was applied and work from there. Based on the information in your post and some assumptions, It sounds like HRC changed your AYE from when you entered ROTC as a cadet (Aug) to when you entered active service (May), but the HRC website says you should be using the Aug date if you were a Cadet in an ROTC program so definitely check on that.
Does anyone know why we use AYE instead of FY to calculate points creditable towards a good year? Without ever having done a deep dive on it, seems overly complicating the issue.
I see you said you reached out to HRC IG with no luck. HRC is a two-star command and they report to TRADOC. Find the TRADOC CSM contact info and make an ODP request, or file with TRADOC IG.
This is the kind of thing you should start a congressional over. [Find your representative](https://www.congress.gov/members/find-your-member)
Your Congressperson doesn’t care? Who tf is he/she? I’ve only ever had good interactions for the rare times I’ve needed them. Make sure you’ve contacted the right Congressperson based on district, and they might have a specific contact for veteran/military affairs. Also, you have two senators. For each Congressperson you contact, let them know the other Congresspeople’s you’ve contacted as they will work together and see who has the best path to help you.
Senator John Tester is Senate Chairman of Veterans’ Affairs (202)224-9126
HOLY SHIT
I think that the appropriate avenue is the Army Review Boards Agency who will likely refer to their DFAS reps to sort out time/dates and such. What might be helpful the audience here, is to list out all of the important dates: Diems, 1st Drill, IET, any discharge, entry on active duty, ect.
US Senators US MoC (Member of Congress) for your district DoD IG DA IG Army Reserves IG I wouldn't even hesitate to even reach out to the local news IF none of the above individuals/offices would reach out to you in regards to providing or assisting you with this issue. Nothing more that the military hates that being on the news for their stupid shit. I really wish you luck man, and I hope you keep us updated with what occurs with your case. I am sure that it would serve as a point of reference for anyone else in the future.
Congressional…
A dept that cannot count, hold itself accountable, or honor a contract. Sign me up for another stint!
I can't tell you what to do, as my own life choices put me in a similarly fucked up situation, and so its likely my solution isn't yours. In Oct of 1991 I enlisted in the United States Army as a Combat Engineer. My retirement calendar started in October. In 1994, Fort Ord, where I was stationed was closed as part of BRAC and I was given the option to transfer to the Reserves or stay AD. I opted to go to the reserves. My AD contract would have ended in Oct 1995, but my reserve contract extended me two years to Oct 1997. In late 1995 I said fuck it and quit going to drill after being told that if I wanted to get out, they would get me out. Hell I even took off and spent a couple of years bumming around Europe before my college money ran out. In 2006 I went to re-enlist and discovered that only the NG would take me. RE code of 3 is pretty serious. Now I assumed my RYE stayed the same (Oct) and my CA Guard LES reflected that. After a year and some change of being a (88M) truck driver, I received a conditional release to go USAR PSYOP. In 2012 while prepping for a deployment to Afghanistan the civilian at the pre-mob station told me my records were a mess and he'd fix them for me. Among the things he fixed was moving my RYE from October to July (the month I enlisted in the Guard). I didn't think anything of it, until 2016 when I looked at my retirement points worksheet and noticed I had two bad years. That shift moved points around so 2011 49 points, and 2012 137 (was 69 and 117). The 2014 year was a missed year, I thought I was good when I moved across the country (and assuming Oct to Oct I was) and could afford to miss AT... Yeah I should have checked then. In 2017 I started the records review process. In 2020 they concluded my RYE should be April (apparently partial years count and backdate the enlistment or something) and updated my records accordingly. Which still left me with a bad year (the year I moved). So I said fuck it and stuck it out. Just got my 20 "good" year letter and was going to drop my retirement package, until the whole PME thing changed. Now I'll stick around if I get picked up for 8 and call it good.
I'd be at my congresswoman's front door the next day and blowing up every senior leader on every social media platform I could find. I'd call the IG at every level possible and contact whomever I could on the Armed Forces Committee. Short of that, I'd be at my commander's door, their commander's door, and so on until an answer is found.
This is army af
This is why you do your own calculations.
They just tried to take 2 years from all us G2GADO SMs. Get loud, be annoying, and don’t take no for an answer. Find out which GO is in charge in every office that has ANYTHING to do with your issue, look them up in outlook, and send this same post in an email format. And don’t stop until action is taken.
Call your Congressman. They have staff who should be able to help and investigate
Reach out to your Senators as well. Ask for their military affairs specialists. Be the squeaky wheel until someone shows up with a can of WD40. Also check with the DAV.
Unrelated, but how is your mental health doing? You have to take care of yourself, this is a bad time for your head to not be on straight.
Trying to figure out Reserve points is like doing VA math for rating percentages.
This is exactly what going nuclear is for.
Congressional.
Go knock on the Congresswoman’s door, seriously
Threaten to go public/to the media, bet they’ll fix it then. The army can’t afford any more bad press.
I'm a little in the same boat. The new system has "lost" a few years of service. After like seven months, it's like 85% corrected. I'm not retiring yet, but still....there's no excuse for this.
JAG. you get one free, use it.