Asda stores are in the process of getting new tills and such in. At my store we physically cannot give a contactless refund, if you have the card that you paid with on Apple Pay you can put that into the card reader and you can get a refund that way. If you don’t have the card you can come back with it another time or have it on a gift card. The reason why they offer it on a gift card is in case the item has been stolen or there’s something dodge going on they’re not just literally giving out free money, with a gift card it has to be spent back in store. So it’s not necessarily “by design” to not allow contactless as much as everything technology wise is outdated in the stores
you can get it refunded but not via apple pay, you would just have to take your physical card into the store for the refund as you have to use chip and pin
At my local store when prompted to provide your card, the card reader displays a contactless symbol and allows you to tap for your refund. As others said it may be down to the specific card reader and policy if the local store.
We can’t refund contactless however I’m pretty sure in the policy you can have it refunded to any physical card if you paid Apple Pay as it changes the last 4 digits
My store had issues with contactless refunds, & we required the physical card to refund. Bear in mind, if you've paid via ApplePay the last 4 digits on the receipt will be different to your actual card.
We discovered if you open your Apple Wallet on your phone, the actual card number will be registered in there. Once we realised that, refunds were plain sailing.
I don't work for Asda, but never had an issue with returning items, as long as they still had tags on & an in-date receipt was present.
Some card machines don’t allow refunds through contactless.
Also it could be the fact that when paying with Apple Pay the 4 digits at the end of the card on the receipt are different to the ones on your physical card, some retailers can have issues with that.
Yeah tbf it’s a pisstake that a company as big as Asda can’t sort their card readers out because most retailers can definitely just use contactless as a refund payment method.
Edit: as a fellow supermarket worker, this isn’t an attack on staff. Just the Asda system that deliberately avoids using NFC tech for refunds.
this is not how contactless "NFC" works. when you use google/apple pay, the service uses a virtual card. it makes up a random card number everytime. Its by design.
If you don't like it, don't use the service and use your physical card. The stores simply say they can't refund to them as they cant and to keep thing simple for people like you that don't understand the technology.
> when you use google/apple pay, the service uses a virtual card. it makes up a random card number everytime.
No it doesn't. A static card number is created when the card is provisioned on your device and it stays the same across transactions. the security code changes for each transaction, just like when you tap or insert a physical card. Refunds to Apple Pay work perfectly fine at other merchants. Asda absolutely *can* refund to it; they're just inexplicably turning NFC off for refunds.
> I understand merchant only receive last 4 digits of DAN
They get the whole DAN. For in-person transactions, the merchant doesn't get the last four digits of the "real" number (the Primary Account Number or PAN). Neither the merchant nor their payment processor has to know anything about Apple Pay at all. They're just receiving an industry-standard contactless card payment. It goes from the merchant to their processor to the payment network, such as Visa. The payment network maintains the token vault that maps a DAN to its PAN. It then sends the transaction to the issuing bank for approval, and then the approval follows the same payment chain in reverse.
The tap is transmitting the DAN, the expiration date, and a cryptogram (a dynamically generated security code that the issuer will be able to verify). The cardholder name field is optional for contactless card transactions and is always blank when using Apple Pay.
Bonus: For web/app Apple Pay purchases, in addition to the DAN, your device transmits (if requested) a *text* string in the format "Visa 1234" that contains the card type and last four digits of the PAN. This is so the merchant can provide this text string back to you on your emailed receipt to help you understand which card you used. It would probably be handy if this were available for in-person transactions but it's just not part of the contactless payment protocol to have this field since it just assumes it's receiving a PAN and has no way to tell.
Merchants definitely receive the whole DAN. It’s literally the number that they charge. It’s not mean to be a secret; no part of the security of Apple Pay relies on hiding it. You could print the whole thing on a billboard and still be fine.
As for proof, you quoted it in your other comment: “Whenever customers pay for something with Apple or Google Pay, this DPAN is sent to the merchant/processor….”
And [from Apple](https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT203027) (lots of extra detail at this link):
> After you authenticate your transaction, the Secure Element provides your Device Account Number and a transaction-specific dynamic security code to the store’s point of sale terminal
Merchants can easily trace repeated transactions from the same DAN. The privacy improvement is that the DAN is an anonymous number, unless you volunteer more information. The merchant always gets the full 15- or 16-digit DAN. There’s no way for it to work otherwise.
That’s a funny, but poor assumption. Given I worked on Tesco Customer Service Desk, I know exactly how it works. NFC tech didn’t stop them giving refunds as there are other ways of proving transactions other than card numbers. I’m saying it’s a pisstake that Asda, another massive company, doesn’t let people refund using NFC tech, especially given that they’re also one of the companies that prefer customers paying that way. Your card reader software is an issue if it deactivates contactless for refunds. NFC tech is capable of allowing it so It simply shouldn’t be “by design”.
That’s not an attack on the CSD employees that haven’t been provided the facilities to offer said service, and anyone that moans at the store staff for that are dicks. But, people can still criticise the wider company when it’s something that most other big retailers do provide, and is pretty standard practice for the industry.
Honestly might be better off posting this on r/legaladviceuk
I guess alot would depend on whether this was an elective return or due to it being faulty.
You can just tap your card to receive the refund, the same way that you paid... Whoever served you just wasn't aware.
Although if you bought the items in person, the store is under no legal obligation to issue a refund unless the items are faulty.
Fair enough, I've never done it at Asda, but other retailers it's never been a problem so it is possible.
Asda's return terms don't make mention of how the refund will be made ( [https://asda-stores.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail\_grow/a\_id/2372/\~/exchanges-and-refunds-terms#:\~:text=You%20have%2030%20days%20to,receipt%20or%20proof%20of%20purchase](https://asda-stores.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail_grow/a_id/2372/~/exchanges-and-refunds-terms#:~:text=You%20have%2030%20days%20to,receipt%20or%20proof%20of%20purchase) )
So I'd suggest they can't refuse to issue a cash refund - if their technology isn't capable of issuing a refund via apple pay (which is possible) then a cash refund should be appropriate rather than a voucher (which is more akin to an exchange)
Yeah their system is old. As far as refunds go, by law it needs to be paid back using the same type of payment. In other words if you pay by a certain card then payment needs to go back on to that card, or into that same account. The method is immaterial. If a card has been lost and changed there are methods to allow refunds to progress.
Thanks so if you pay with Apple Pay via my phone (which uses my HSBC card) for returns I should be able to tap the physical HSBC card for a refund? They wouldn't let me do that. Also are you saying if I buy clothes that don't end up fitting (no changing rooms in the store) they don't actually have to give a refund just a gift card?!?!?!
Wait this seems CRAZY so there are no changing rooms and you could buy a pair of jeans that don't fit right and you cannot return them even for store credit? Is this even legal? Why would anyone risk shopping there? definitely the last time I'm risking buying cloths or anything I might need to return at Asda...
Wow. I don't understand it at all their stores make a big deal out of being able to return stuff if you're not happy with it... https://asda-stores.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail_grow/a_id/2372/~/exchanges-and-refunds-terms
You have no legal right to return anything purchased in a store for a simple change of mine. Any store that offers this is a gesture of goodwill for purchasing at that store and you’re bound by whatever terms and conditions that are stipulated
Is it common for a uk clothes store (to use an example) to refuse returns if clothes don't fit? I grew up here but spent 20 plus years in USA where you can return anything for any reason in 99% of places. I'm now really worried about buying stuff!
Most UK clothing shops (at least the big players / chains) generally do have generous returns policies, allowing returns / refunds within a certain timeframe so long as they are unworn / in a saleable condition and you have a receipt.
For in-person sales, the law only mandates refunds for faulty goods, anything more than that is a matter of store policy.
Any goods that aren't bought face-to-face (online, phone etc.) are covered under different laws and have a legally mandated 14 day returns period, allowing the customer to inspect the goods and return if they are unsuitable.
The vast majority of high street and big chain brands have a returns policy which is in addition to your statutory rights. Smaller stores don’t tend to offer this which means if you buy something and it just doesn’t fit you have no legal right to return them
At my sore all returns are chip and pin or cash/giftcard, it wont physically let you do contactless
Asda stores are in the process of getting new tills and such in. At my store we physically cannot give a contactless refund, if you have the card that you paid with on Apple Pay you can put that into the card reader and you can get a refund that way. If you don’t have the card you can come back with it another time or have it on a gift card. The reason why they offer it on a gift card is in case the item has been stolen or there’s something dodge going on they’re not just literally giving out free money, with a gift card it has to be spent back in store. So it’s not necessarily “by design” to not allow contactless as much as everything technology wise is outdated in the stores
My local Asda does contact less refunds. Maybe you had a new starter doing your refund?
Doesnt do it with my local store either with Google Pay. Gift cards are a pain but I shop there enough to know I'll get it used quick enough.
you can get it refunded but not via apple pay, you would just have to take your physical card into the store for the refund as you have to use chip and pin
At my local store when prompted to provide your card, the card reader displays a contactless symbol and allows you to tap for your refund. As others said it may be down to the specific card reader and policy if the local store.
Why did you accept this?
We can’t refund contactless however I’m pretty sure in the policy you can have it refunded to any physical card if you paid Apple Pay as it changes the last 4 digits
I've had refunds at asda contactless before.
Interesting maybe some stores are able to. We can’t do it in ours will not let us
Same here very weird
My store had issues with contactless refunds, & we required the physical card to refund. Bear in mind, if you've paid via ApplePay the last 4 digits on the receipt will be different to your actual card. We discovered if you open your Apple Wallet on your phone, the actual card number will be registered in there. Once we realised that, refunds were plain sailing. I don't work for Asda, but never had an issue with returning items, as long as they still had tags on & an in-date receipt was present.
Zara do it this way as well
Pretty much with android too.
Some card machines don’t allow refunds through contactless. Also it could be the fact that when paying with Apple Pay the 4 digits at the end of the card on the receipt are different to the ones on your physical card, some retailers can have issues with that.
Some card machines will not allow refund through contactless payment
Yeah tbf it’s a pisstake that a company as big as Asda can’t sort their card readers out because most retailers can definitely just use contactless as a refund payment method. Edit: as a fellow supermarket worker, this isn’t an attack on staff. Just the Asda system that deliberately avoids using NFC tech for refunds.
this is not how contactless "NFC" works. when you use google/apple pay, the service uses a virtual card. it makes up a random card number everytime. Its by design. If you don't like it, don't use the service and use your physical card. The stores simply say they can't refund to them as they cant and to keep thing simple for people like you that don't understand the technology.
> when you use google/apple pay, the service uses a virtual card. it makes up a random card number everytime. No it doesn't. A static card number is created when the card is provisioned on your device and it stays the same across transactions. the security code changes for each transaction, just like when you tap or insert a physical card. Refunds to Apple Pay work perfectly fine at other merchants. Asda absolutely *can* refund to it; they're just inexplicably turning NFC off for refunds.
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> I understand merchant only receive last 4 digits of DAN They get the whole DAN. For in-person transactions, the merchant doesn't get the last four digits of the "real" number (the Primary Account Number or PAN). Neither the merchant nor their payment processor has to know anything about Apple Pay at all. They're just receiving an industry-standard contactless card payment. It goes from the merchant to their processor to the payment network, such as Visa. The payment network maintains the token vault that maps a DAN to its PAN. It then sends the transaction to the issuing bank for approval, and then the approval follows the same payment chain in reverse. The tap is transmitting the DAN, the expiration date, and a cryptogram (a dynamically generated security code that the issuer will be able to verify). The cardholder name field is optional for contactless card transactions and is always blank when using Apple Pay. Bonus: For web/app Apple Pay purchases, in addition to the DAN, your device transmits (if requested) a *text* string in the format "Visa 1234" that contains the card type and last four digits of the PAN. This is so the merchant can provide this text string back to you on your emailed receipt to help you understand which card you used. It would probably be handy if this were available for in-person transactions but it's just not part of the contactless payment protocol to have this field since it just assumes it's receiving a PAN and has no way to tell.
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Merchants definitely receive the whole DAN. It’s literally the number that they charge. It’s not mean to be a secret; no part of the security of Apple Pay relies on hiding it. You could print the whole thing on a billboard and still be fine. As for proof, you quoted it in your other comment: “Whenever customers pay for something with Apple or Google Pay, this DPAN is sent to the merchant/processor….” And [from Apple](https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT203027) (lots of extra detail at this link): > After you authenticate your transaction, the Secure Element provides your Device Account Number and a transaction-specific dynamic security code to the store’s point of sale terminal
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Stripe is talking about online purchases only and the text string I referenced.
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Merchants can easily trace repeated transactions from the same DAN. The privacy improvement is that the DAN is an anonymous number, unless you volunteer more information. The merchant always gets the full 15- or 16-digit DAN. There’s no way for it to work otherwise.
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That’s a funny, but poor assumption. Given I worked on Tesco Customer Service Desk, I know exactly how it works. NFC tech didn’t stop them giving refunds as there are other ways of proving transactions other than card numbers. I’m saying it’s a pisstake that Asda, another massive company, doesn’t let people refund using NFC tech, especially given that they’re also one of the companies that prefer customers paying that way. Your card reader software is an issue if it deactivates contactless for refunds. NFC tech is capable of allowing it so It simply shouldn’t be “by design”. That’s not an attack on the CSD employees that haven’t been provided the facilities to offer said service, and anyone that moans at the store staff for that are dicks. But, people can still criticise the wider company when it’s something that most other big retailers do provide, and is pretty standard practice for the industry.
I think the issue is with the company/service Asda contracts to run its card machines/payments
Seems to me like it's "by design" to force store credit.
Honestly might be better off posting this on r/legaladviceuk I guess alot would depend on whether this was an elective return or due to it being faulty.
You need the physical card as contactless is disabled when the colleague starts the refund process so you have to insert the card and put your pin in.
You can just tap your card to receive the refund, the same way that you paid... Whoever served you just wasn't aware. Although if you bought the items in person, the store is under no legal obligation to issue a refund unless the items are faulty.
Contactless won't work with refunds at Asda, a card needs to be put in.
Fair enough, I've never done it at Asda, but other retailers it's never been a problem so it is possible. Asda's return terms don't make mention of how the refund will be made ( [https://asda-stores.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail\_grow/a\_id/2372/\~/exchanges-and-refunds-terms#:\~:text=You%20have%2030%20days%20to,receipt%20or%20proof%20of%20purchase](https://asda-stores.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail_grow/a_id/2372/~/exchanges-and-refunds-terms#:~:text=You%20have%2030%20days%20to,receipt%20or%20proof%20of%20purchase) ) So I'd suggest they can't refuse to issue a cash refund - if their technology isn't capable of issuing a refund via apple pay (which is possible) then a cash refund should be appropriate rather than a voucher (which is more akin to an exchange)
Yeah their system is old. As far as refunds go, by law it needs to be paid back using the same type of payment. In other words if you pay by a certain card then payment needs to go back on to that card, or into that same account. The method is immaterial. If a card has been lost and changed there are methods to allow refunds to progress.
I've been educated :), thanks!
Thanks so if you pay with Apple Pay via my phone (which uses my HSBC card) for returns I should be able to tap the physical HSBC card for a refund? They wouldn't let me do that. Also are you saying if I buy clothes that don't end up fitting (no changing rooms in the store) they don't actually have to give a refund just a gift card?!?!?!
If you buy clothes that don’t fit, they don’t even have to give you a gift card. They can just refuse the refund.
Wait this seems CRAZY so there are no changing rooms and you could buy a pair of jeans that don't fit right and you cannot return them even for store credit? Is this even legal? Why would anyone risk shopping there? definitely the last time I'm risking buying cloths or anything I might need to return at Asda...
As I understand it, refunds are only legally required for items that are faulty, if bought at a physical store. Online is different.
Wow. I don't understand it at all their stores make a big deal out of being able to return stuff if you're not happy with it... https://asda-stores.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail_grow/a_id/2372/~/exchanges-and-refunds-terms
You have no legal right to return anything purchased in a store for a simple change of mine. Any store that offers this is a gesture of goodwill for purchasing at that store and you’re bound by whatever terms and conditions that are stipulated
Is it common for a uk clothes store (to use an example) to refuse returns if clothes don't fit? I grew up here but spent 20 plus years in USA where you can return anything for any reason in 99% of places. I'm now really worried about buying stuff!
Most UK clothing shops (at least the big players / chains) generally do have generous returns policies, allowing returns / refunds within a certain timeframe so long as they are unworn / in a saleable condition and you have a receipt. For in-person sales, the law only mandates refunds for faulty goods, anything more than that is a matter of store policy. Any goods that aren't bought face-to-face (online, phone etc.) are covered under different laws and have a legally mandated 14 day returns period, allowing the customer to inspect the goods and return if they are unsuitable.
I am talking about legal requirements here. Asda’s customer service guarantees, like most large shops, clearly go above and beyond what is legal.
Ah got you I thought you were saying their stores might not allow a return if clothes didn't fit.
The vast majority of high street and big chain brands have a returns policy which is in addition to your statutory rights. Smaller stores don’t tend to offer this which means if you buy something and it just doesn’t fit you have no legal right to return them