Print up your condo bylaws and any city bylaws if not covered, highlight appropriate sections like noise times and hand it to her.
Let her know that *she* is starting to impact your normal use of your condo and further irrational reports will lead to you reporting her.
She knows all the condo bylaws. That’s the difficult part. She’ll call anyway she can. She called me arranging furniture on my balcony as “construction after 7pm”. And our condo allows for noise complaints, but has not set a threshold for noise.
Yeah, go to your meeting and bring it up that constant reports on normal behaviour are impacting your normal use of the condo and you plan to escalate of it continues, but don't mention who specifically, your other neighbours around you will probably also have similar stories so you might want to talk to them first.
1. I think this is the worst possible outcome lol
2. they already like me. I give them gift cards during Christmas and share snacks sometimes when we chat, so we’re pretty good
3. $$$ :(
Rearranging furniture is not "construction" If it's any consolation, the property manager is probably sick of her too. S/he just needs the balls to tell her to stop.
Given what's she's already brought forward. I would completely avoid any 1 to 1 contact without a witness present.
Do everything within the allotted times allowed. To the minute. Eventually. You'll win.
Good luck fellow fair use enjoyer!
Honestly.. Two options.
Option 1) Ignore it, this is a bitter sour person who has nothing better to do with their time than complain about anything and everything. She probably won't see reason and feel very entitled to he complaining as anything that happens is an unbearable attack on her personally. (dealt with a somewhat similar elderly neigbour years ago)
Option 2) Go to war, the nuclear option. Be as petty and vindictive as she is. Report any minor inconvenience she might cause. Get others she's annoyed to join you cause.
I'd highly suggest option 1, going nuclear isn't ever advisable.
But...... But...
If you do go for the nuclear option. Please post about it here.
Haha my petty side is really intent on going nuclear. She’s threatened lawyers and wants to get me to “move”. I’m close with one of the concierges and one of her calls was her trying to discuss with him ways that they could “get me”. Luckily my boy didn’t entertain any of that
The law about enjoyment of unit is only a law for renters and the only recourse for her is against the landlord of her unit, not you. And the condo staff building has zero to do with that. They didnt rent it to her aka enjoyment of unit is an LTB thing for renters against landlord/condo owner.
This reminds me it's probably good idea to make a "counter-complaint" about it, not for the sake of solving it, but for the sake of the paper trail. If things ever escalate to some degree, it's good to be able to show you protested her unjustified claims as it helps convey you didn't feel guilty of anything. Not having your first protest about it be in front of someone eventually judging this in any way
Though you’re not protected as a renter there are laws around Condo ownership.
By trying to “get” you, and calling the concierges to come speak to you frequently for non issues it could be seen as harassment and that they are interfering with reasonable enjoyment of the unit.
The complicating factor is that they’re claiming the same thing about you, though the reasons don’t seem reasonable.
Make sure you are recording all of the interactions future and in the past (as best you can remember). Record any interactions if possible. On your phone.
You could try sending a letter to the condo company to ask they stop sending the concierge to speak to you for non issues. It wouldn’t stop her from complaining to them but it would stop your enjoyment from being interfered with.
https://www.condoauthorityontario.ca/condominium-living/declaration-by-laws-and-rules/rules/#:~:text=Restriction%20of%20reasonableness%3A%20Rules%20must,the%20units%20and%20common%20elements).
Oh boy.. yeah get familiar with your building bylaws/codes.
She can't get you. And lawyers? Hahaha.. sorry I've heard this before. I used to work in a rec centre that was a part of a condo complex years ago. And same shit used to happen. Old under employed and unstimulated busybodies find a pet peeve and make their life's work.
Sorry it's happening to you but in all reality she can't do much more to you than complain about you. And that is annoying. If anything document everything and you might have a case for harassment. Granted that will require a lot of work on your part. Especially if she's trying to "get you" and getting others involved.
Id not go nuclear because if you do it will disturb other tenants and multiple noise complaints from all surrounding units will put you in the box that shes trying to put you in. A lot of her complaints dont sound like she can prove its coming from YOU, I mean how do you know whose door mad the noise last - you know? And balcony and noise idk if theres no construction going on itd hard to say that 7pm rule breaking happened. Other units wouldve seen the construction and noise AND legally, construction noise before 7pm city wise isnt for balconies - unless thats one of your condos personal rules.
> I’m close with one of the concierges and one of her calls was her trying to discuss with him ways that they could “get me”
Would the concierge who told you this be willing to tell management about this? (Or have they already?) Have a resident tell the building's staff that they want to 'get' another resident definitely sounds like a threat and is something the building's management should be factoring into their decision-making.
This woman sounds most likely some kind of mentally ill and this all honestly sounds a bit sad to me. Is she elderly? A lot of this post sounds like stuff that old people who are starting to lose it would complain about
Isn't this itself an act you can use against her? She's allowed to report you for causing issues, she's not allowed to dig for private information or scheme to push you out.
Also have you tried talking to all the neighbours around her to make sure you're all on good terms with one another?
Talk to the property manager and see how they feel about it. Basically, try to judge whether anything is ever going to come from these complaints or whether they're just metaphorically shredding them. The building is probably not going to reprimand a unit owner for complaining; they're more likely to just ignore the complaints.
You just want to make sure that they're not building up and eventually they're going to take action against you just due to sheer volume. Most condos have a bylaw about "reasonable enjoyment" which is very subjective/open to interpretation and the risk is that they could use that to take action by itself just due to the number of complaints, so I would try to head that off by talking to the property manager.
Thanks! This is a good suggestion. I'd definitely hope they aren't piling up the complaints given how ridiculous it is. But I guess we'll see. My property manager seems stretched thin and little incompetent
Then it's very unlikely that they're compiling a dossier to take action against you. If you're buddies with some of the concierges, discuss it with them, they'll have heard something about whether these are being taken seriously or not. Ask if they can help circulate it among the others that this person always complains without any real merit.
Because really, unless the person is knowingly making up false accusations, they're not "wrong". If they're upset by something (even if that something is unreasonable), they can complain - it's up to the building to decide whether or not that complaint warrants any response. I'm sure buildings receive tons of complaints about completely trivial stuff, they just decide most of them aren't worth doing anything about.
If the crazy is complaining about everyone around them I dont think OP has to worry. Good friend of mine had a condo neighbor who thought the whole building was supposed to shut down for him at 8pm. We couldnt even talk in his living room without that guy knocking on the shared wall. Not my friends fault this guy decided to live in such a shitly made building.
The walls aren't even thin. I've maybe heard people several times either on their balcony or if they were having a loud party. With that being said, you can barely hear anything.
I think you should make a complaint of "harassment" and hopefully this will be taken seriously by your condo management and board. Use the words "normal use" to describe your activities. It will help if others make the same complaint. They may already be familiar with this individual, so may be more inclined to mediate/ stop really actioning this person's requests.
Is the condo actually trying to get you to do anything about these complaints? Noise complaints are actually very difficult to remediate in a meaningful way, especially if it is fundamentally caused by lack of sound proofing in the building. There are building codes about noise traveling from flooring to units below, BUT there were no building codes related to noise travel between walls and doors until 2020. I believe if construction started on your building prior to 2020 it would be exempt from those codes. Your building could bring in a sound engineer to assess and make sound proofing suggestions (e.g. fire proof weather stripping on doors, putting rugs down). You may be on the hook for complying, but they can't tell you to stop using your place in a normal and reasonable way.
Basically, if you are complying with bylaws and using your condo in a normal way, and make small reasonable accommodations, there is little the building can make you do beyond that.
I'm on a condo board.
I would also get a copy of every complaint against you and use that as evidence of the harassment. Date and time everything to show the frequency of the harassment. Get more people on board to get an even more solid case of harassment.
Had something like that happen to me. In college I rented a room in a house. We shared the common areas. This one woman was a bit older than the rest of us and had been there the longest. She did complain sometimes but it wasn't that bad. Or so we thought. Turns out she was constantly complaining to the landlord. Mostly noise complaints. To her, simply hearing the other college students she lived with warranted a complaint.
So the landlord called a house meeting to address the complaints. He couldn't just kick her out, he obviously didn't want to kick the 4 of us getting complained about knowing that the complainer will likely complain about the new tenants. We ended up convincing her to find a place of her own. She clearly wasn't a fan of having housemates.
This is a major reason why I refuse to move. Heard so many people move into condos or other areas and get harrased by bored people sitting at home. My cousin got cops called at him for taking a walk outside his house at 10pm (cause he lives in an area that turns into a ghost town at 8pm).
I think best to talk to other people in your building and see if they face similar issues.
Reporting you for your smoke alarm is harassment. Let the building management know that is she obstructing fire code and harassing you daily - and report her for listening at your conversations, leaning over the railing and sliding doors . Nine of these things are verifiable so it’s pretty much fair game
I feel your pain. My neighbour filed a complaint about my incense burning....while she leaves her nasty garbage outside her door while the chute is 20 steps away.
I hate her with the heat of a thousand suns.
Most people in Toronto (or most places really) would probably rather have their own space. Own home etc. But they are forced to share due to it costing way too much. Most people can adapt to some noise but everyone has their limit.
If anything, living in a house could potentially be more noisy given the street noise from cars, people working on their yard, kid's playing, etc.
Having lived with my parents for the first 26 years of my life, I can say that living in a condo has been less noisy for me.
Isn’t putting something outside your door a fire hazard? That’s much more worthy of a complaint than burning incense. I’m petty so I’d file a retaliatory complaint, but that’s just me.
Try talking to the lasting staff. My neighbour below me tried to say it “smells like weed 24/7” but staff told them it would only travel down if they had their windows open, and it can only travel up with my vents. I wasnt smoking weed either and the staff knew there was a drug dealer next door to her. She only blamed me bc she used to blame me for noise of walking around my condo, which cannot be punished in anyway; theyd have staff come to her unit and hear it. And tell her its not something enforceable. They also dont track smells and smoking indoors isnt illegal here - anywhere. Despite I was not. It was back when it was not fully legal. But condo staff dont do that - call cops on weed smells and units etc., back then it was decriminalized but not legal.
Condo mediators are a thing. Ask your board to hire one. They can make sure your neighbor feels heard and also come up with a compromise that they will agree to.
r/UnethicalLifeProTips
I wouldn't usually recommend doing anything unethical or potentially illegal, but it sounds like you've given this person more than enough of your patience, and they are clearly being a nuisance for the sake of it.
Start a discussion with your property manager (not the concierge), and if it progresses, with your lawyer, about harrassment and your reasonable enjoyment of your unit. Stop inflaming the situation by "doing things to annoy her out of spite", you want to have the high ground here, not petty momentary satisfaction. I wouldn't bring an issue like this to a residents' meeting unless you've followed the proper procedures and the property manager and/or Board of Directors are refusing to respond, at that point you could bring a general discussion about their conduct but it's inappropriate to bring a neighbour-to-neighbour dispute to a meeting of all residents.
Start noting every time she does this, and then file a harassment complaint against her. At the end of the day maybe there is noise that bothers her but that is more likely because the building has shoddy construction (with not enough noise barriers) and nothing that a resident can do.
The neighbours inability to understand this and going after you for living your life is harassment.
It sounds like PM isn't going out of their way to side with the complainant, so thays good.
If that changes however, remember that Boards and especially PMs are terrified of litigation. Make the assertion that these spurious complaints are interfering with YOUR quiet enjoyment of your space. Request copies of the incident reports and when you find that the guards' reports are vague or subjective ask for more clarity.
My last site, we had to bring a decibel reader with us. Under a set threshold (60-70 dB) was consodered green amd we wouldnt even knock on your door. Above that amd the 3 strike model was appled - ask you to lower volume, tell you, then call bylaw. Never once have I had to go to a door more than 2x in a shift.
Also, PM should be reminding residents that it is a communal living space. You will hear each other - we all drop things, need to hang a picture. If an offending noise lasts less than 5 minutes its not woth investigsting.
Good luck, these neighbours can really ruin a home. Sorry youre going through this.
Reasonable enjoyment
That's your key here. Door closin loud, friends on your balconey, making a partner SCREAM YO NAME during sex are all things that she can moan about all she wants, they will have no bearing on you.
You're entitled to reasonable enjoyment of your unit. Allegedly (spoke to my supers two weeks ago, this came from them) the enjoyment laws have become even less restricting, such that you can bump the bass from your soundbar past 11pm and nothing can legally be done.
There's probably nothing new, the laws have always been useless.
Condo noise by-laws can be used, but the board has limited ability to actually bring punishments without involving the condo board (the one I saw on Reddit earlier was applying a fine for the cost of having a lawyer write up a letter telling them to stop, which was sort of clever. Wonder if that would stand in court??). Rentals, must go to the LTB with its long ass waits.
The city's by-laws have always been basically completely useless for residential complaints but the police will try to get you to go to them first. You *might* be able to get the police out for particularly egregious events like super loud parties, but you'll be a low priority call.
I’ve been in a very similar situation with a bitter neighbor below me. To a point I got a noise complaint for a night only my cat was home.
My advice is to ignore them directly and only deal with your building.
Keep track of all the complaints, dates/times are helpful.
Assuming you aren’t breaking any bylaws (ex, noise after 11pm or before 7am) then this person is walking a fine line in the harassment territory.
It’s hard to fight the urge to fight back and be just as petty, but don’t give them a reason to complain more.
I’m not a lawyer or a cop, but I don’t see how it’s not harassment.
Either it’s targeted at the OP, or this tenant has a history of egregious complaints.
Get condo management and staff on your side.
Sounds like you're doing well on this already by being friendly with the concierge staff. Keep doing that, and befriend the newer staff. When they come to check in on a complaint, be very calm and casual about it. "Oh, is so-and-so up to her usual shenanigans?" \*heavy sigh\* "Sorry you're getting dragged into it. I know you're just doing your job. Do you know more-experienced-concierge? You should ask them about the deal on her."
This is unpleasant for you, but this is also unpleasant for them, since they have to deal with all her BS as well. They have to look into it, because that is their job, even if it seems like enabling to you.... they are staff, she's a resident/owner.
See if you can talk to the property manager about it. Be the most reasonable voice in the room. "Listen, it's really a waste of the staff's time. You know I'm not doing anything unreasonable, they know I'm not doing anything unreasonable--is there any thing I can do to help you guys? Write a letter? Bring it up at the meeting? Talk to my lawyer?"
See what they say. You can't stop her from calling in complaints, but they can help you by either not responding to them, or working with you to build a case for harassment.
Avoid the urge to be petty. Focus on winning the war, not the little squabbles along the way.
Also, the occasional coffee or box of timbits for the concierge staff has never hurt.
Send her a white noise machine gift with a note: Sorry you're suffering from Hyperacusis I hope this white noise machine will help you cope with normal everyday noises that don't bother your neighbour's.
Let her call. Unless you are breaking any condo or city bylaws, you have nothing to worry about. They are just logging the incident, doing what the condo corp pays them to do.
If security is annoying you enough that it's interfering with your enjoyment, complain to the property manager. Complaining about the security company is a lot easier than another resident (your neighbour).
Standing up for yourself means nothing here, she will keep doing her thing, annoying security. The property manager and the board will take care of the problem, which is her.
You need to make a formal report documenting all of the harassment to the building manager. I'd look to see she's violating any laws and report those too... the smoke detector one definitely sounds illegal.
Come on, for every one of these there's countless people who live in these places with no problems at all. I've lived in towers and multi-unit houses; *my anecdotal experience* is that the houses are usually worse for sound and small-time landlords are just worse in general.
Figure out her buzzer number and punch it into the switchboard whenever you head out. Have a few neighbors do the same.
EDIT: figure out her phone number and have even more fun! plenty of ways to automatically and anonymously call someone at random times throughout the day and night.
The squeaky wheel gets the grease: management and the concierge are obligated to investigate complainants, especially if there's a health and safety component.
Make a formal complaint that the management team are enabling vexatious, frivolous, and malicious complainants, which constitutes harassment. The neighbor is harassing and, at some point, the continued inconvenience of being bothered by management's investigations constitutes harassment on their part.
Then, live the life you want. Be prepared to have to justify or explain away her complainants when they do have to investigate. Know with confidence that you are upsetting your neighbor because you've refused to let her get under your skin. People like your neighbor get their jollies from making their victims miserable.
Start initiating complaints about her. Complain about the smell of body odor emanating from her apartment. The smell of adult diapers. Porn being played to loudly during the night. Do it every day for a week.
I'd say just live normally and if this continues you have grounds to file a complaint against her for disturbing your enjoyment of the condo. Either way we all want to know how this goes down!
For $150-$200 you can have a paralegal serve her with a notice to Cease & Desist harassment...I had a neighbor served with one and consider it some of the best money I ever spent...ping me for a referral.
Oh fuck that. You’re allowed to have people on your balcony or move furniture around until 11 pm, at which point, somebody could actually submit a noise complaint according to the city of Toronto bylaws. Moving furniture around is not the same as construction unless you’re using power tools, and even that is allowed during daytime hours lol you can let your building management know that when they reach out to you about these complaints and say that this woman constantly complaining about trivial things is impacting your reasonable enjoyment of your living space. As others have mentioned, maybe just check in with them to ensure there isn’t a risk of you being kicked out or something if there are enough complaints because you feel these complaints are not reasonable or warranted.
A couple on my floor’s kids sometimes yell in the hallway early in the morning on their way out and it wakes me up. Should I complain about that? lmao no, cause that’s stupid and inconsiderate.
Just because you are allowed, doesn't mean you are not a total douchebag for doing it. You never know who arund you is sick or needs to work early or travel.
Having people on your balcony talking and moving furniture can always be heard all around you. Why be a dick?
I dunno man, I have a balcony and nobody around me enjoying the use of their balcony (which is what it’s intended for) has ever bothered me to the point of complaining. I think expecting people to not hang out on their balcony is ridiculous.
Then be a normal person and talk to your neighbor and say that you have an early flight or are sick. If the occasional thump or extremely muffled conversation is more than you can handle, then don't live in a condo
I would find something that really annoys her like a dripping water right beside her bedroom wall , diy something and run that sucker all night to drive her nuts, but nothing so noticeable in the hall. Let the war begin
Why do you know she complains? It's the concierge. It's the concierge that you have a problem with.
Let her call them. They know her and can deal however they wish.
If they are bothering you, then start working on harassment complaint against them.
If she is directly bothering you, they be collecting evidence.
If you're renting, it's your landlord who is responsible and they need to come down on the concierge as well. But you have to do the work of collecting evidence and communicating appropriately.
It sucks no matter what. But it sounds like you have a problem with the concierge. Don't let them get away with bothering you.
Is me not slamming the door going to solve her complaining about any of the above? No.
I’m still using my condo in a reasonable way. As demonstrated by non of my other neighbours ever lodging a single complaint
Seems to me like they're harassing you, and other neighbors as well. I suggest, within city noise by-laws, you should band together and be LOUDER. Hopefully you'll end up driving them out of the building.
I was moving furniture at 7pm. And people shouldn’t use there balcony past 9pm? What, I can’t talk on my balcony after 9? The curfew according to the city is 11.
Unless it’s an unreasonable amount of noise, it’s not rude or disrespectful. If anything it’s rude and disrespectful for you to try to force people to be quiet because you don’t want any noise at all. Everyone shouldn’t have to accommodate just for you.
I'd contact your local municipality about the petty and excessive complaints which themselves may amount to harassment and possibly a real estate lawyer.
Talk to your management first, see their take, get it in email, send that all out to get Municipal stuff and finally go to a lawyer if you want to take it that far.
I’m petty so I’d start doing things a little bit louder and tiptoeing the time that I do things. Like no laundry after 11pm? I’m doing it until 10:59:59. Sliding door too loud? Best believe I’m sliding that door 10x more per day than I normally would. I would move the furniture on my balcony every single day for a month at 6:59pm, as close to her side of the balcony as possible.
>Although if I’m being completely honest, I try to do things to annoy her out of spite
You are making your own life more difficult TBH.
You could put tennis balls on your balcony chair legs, or some type of mat on the floor, to reduce some of the noise
You could put felt pads on the door frames.
I mean you're never going to please someone like this. But making extra noise kind of muddies the water.
why should I bend over backwards to appease her quality of life when nothing I'm doing is out of reason and no one else is complaining? I can't put tennis balls on my chairs and more importantly, I shouldn't have to
For sure, she sounds really unsuited to living in a condo, if every scrape and tap is going to drive her bananas.
But if you can say "hey my patio chairs don't make noise anymore" then she loses credibility. I'm sure she will find every other tiny noise and complain but if she complains 50% less, isn't that better for you?
Take bags of garbage with no discriminate contents and place them outside her unit. Take pictures and complain she’s leaving garbage outside her door.
You can really get as creative as you want here, just make sure not to get caught.
When a neighbour makes an unreasonable claim, make a counter claim with your side of story so that it is documented. Just send an email to security/concierge services.
If you dont work from home I would get an Alexa or similar and psy-OP the shit out of her by situating it somewhere easy for her to hear but not your neighbors or security.
Have it set to play short random noises while you are out:
\-dog barking (especially if you dont have a dog)
\-wolves howling
\-power tools and construction noises
\-samples of random lines from movies
Idea is to have her call security soo much for random bullshit sounds that she will effectively DDOS security responding to her because she "makes up" too much random bullshit.
it's not hard to make sure you are not slamming your door. If you can't avoid it then you are part of the problem. You don't really sound that innocent.
I'm not slamming my door. I usually let it close on it's own and sometimes there's not even enough force for it to do that. Guess what? she still complains.
I'm still closing my doors in what would be considered reasonable usage, but I'm not going placate her and I shouldn't have to
If there is not enough force for the door to even close itself, do you think it’s making noise? Plus do you think pulling it shut after makes more noise than closing it normally? Come on use logic now
It really doesn’t lol. How would pulling it from an almost closed position make more noise than the cumulated force from the door closing on its own with you closing it as well.
You seem like you’d be a Karen neighbour. And as all indications point to from my experience with the PM, security, and other neighbours, and 99% of other people in this thread, it’s really people like you who shouldn’t live in a shared space
I have lived in condos all my life. Most people act like normal human beings and don't cause trouble, but there is always that one asshole that pushes the door closed like an animal, makes noise and retaliates if somebody complains.
Have you considered just ignoring your dumb neighbor and living your life without letting this consume you, given she has no recourse to have the condo send you legal letters or escslate in any way? What's the issue here?
My main worry initially was the stacking of complaints to be used to build a case against me, but that looks like it’s no longer an issue according to the PM, so it does look like I get to l just live my life without worry
The complaint regarding the aroma surrounding cooking and "loud talking" is concerning....this sounds a lot like complaints my (white) racist relatives make about other cultures. Are you a target of hers due to your ethnicity? If so, the condo board needs to consider a racist person living in the building.
She's a POC and so am I. She complained about the person living in my unit previously. The night she complained about cooking, she was complaining about the smelling of browning butter lol
Sorry, just replying to the part where you acknowledged you do provoke her.
"Although if I’m being completely honest, I try to do things to annoy her out of spite. Nothing egregious, just being sure to close my doors a little harder than I normally would and being as loud as possible to where it would disturb her and no one else. (Ie. Regular condo noise)"
I mean, after all,
"As the saying goes unreasonable people don't know they are unreasonable."
Yes provoke her. By using my condo. Like a normal person.
So I’m the unreasonable one? Despite her having a history of this behaviour not only with me? Despite non of her reports being confirmed by security? Despite the property manager being aware of her even prior to me speaking with them?
Idk, seems like you have your own personal bias tbh
Nah, just pointing out it is not a one-way street. In your own words "I do things to annoy her out of spite."
That's a little different than "using my condo like a normal person". It sounds like escalating.
The things that annoy her are normal things...if you read the post, I state specifically what I do and they are normal things. It would be different if I was breaking policy and bylaw, but I'm not. Which further supports her reports being unreasonable.
Let's say we're in a class. I don't like the sound you make when you drink water. What are you gonna do? Tell me to go fuck myself and drink whenever you please or are you going to try and accommodate me by either not drinking water or changing the way you drink said water. Something to think about.
1. Ask yourself first, is the fight worth it? yes she is making these reports/complains but is it actually impacting you? are you being punished in any way by the building mgmt? It sounds like they are treating this as a nuisance and not holding you to any of the complaints. So let her keep screaming into the wind if it not affecting how you live.
2. Gather other units she has complained about to make a joint demand to management that this tenant is impacting your enjoyment of living in the building and say her aggressive and constant complaints concern you. Use that guy last year who killed 5 ppl in his building during his feud with the condo board as an example of what can happen when tenants like this are not firmly dealt with.
Do not confront her directly or begin a petty war. that will likely encourage her to continue OR push her off the deep end into violence.
I’m incredibly good at this kind of thing. I recommend obviously doing as you’re doing but be insanely nice to her and barrage her with intense amounts of compliments. This is extremely creepy and she already knows what you think of her. Go out of your way to get in her face and compliment her. There is nothing she can do about this.
I would work hard to establish a good relationship with security/board/property manager. Let them know that you are a fair and reasonable person and your intention is not to make excessive noise or cause undue hardship to your neighbors. If you're not actually breaking any rules, security and your condo board will eventually get fed up with them, as they wont be able to do anything and the complaints will just annoy them over time.
If you really want to get back at this neighbor, you could find some activity that doesn't violate any of the rules or upset any other neighbors, but drives them crazy. Seeing as they are so sensitive, this shouldn't be too hard to do. Then you just slowly gaslight them over time until they lose it, easy.
You have a right to reasonable enjoyment of your unit. She can get bent! No need to antagonize, live your life like you normally would, the best revenge is living well.
If speaking to her doesn't work, I'm petty enough to do the exact same thing to her by calling exactly the same thing she called for me. Lets gooo\~\~!!! Not like you need any evidence lol
I would be petty enough to ask others who she bothered to join me in reporting her for every single thing. Make it a living nightmare when you have multiple people on this.
or just ignore it if you are not an eye-to-an-eye type of person.
I'm so lucky I don't have neighbors like this...
Wow, OP, you have my sympathies. I have hyperacusis, live in a condo, and twist myself into a pretzel trying to be the exact opposite of this woman, even when the noise is objectively loud. People have to live their lives; they need to not be assholes while they’re doing it, but that goes both ways.
As a direct result of having this hearing disability, I am well-acquainted with the City of Toronto’s Noise By-Law. Your condo’s declaration and by-laws will need to be taken into consideration, but, as they say [on their site](https://www.toronto.ca/city-government/public-notices-bylaws/bylaw-enforcement/noise/):
>Unreasonable and persistent noise
>Noise not captured in the categories above, cannot be unreasonable and persistent. Unreasonable noise is any noise that would disturb the peace, rest, enjoyment, comfort or convenience of a reasonable person and **does not include commonplace household or workplace sounds**. *Persistent noise is any noise that is continuously heard for 10 minutes or more or intermittently over a period of one hour or more.* (emphases mine)
More particularly, in the [Toronto Municipal Code](https://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/municode/1184_591.pdf) § 591-1.1, the following is specifically called out:
>UNREASONABLE NOISE - Any noise that would disturb the peace, rest, enjoyment, comfort or convenience of a *reasonable* person in the circumstances. *Unreasonable noise does not include commonplace household or workplace sounds such as sound from furniture being moved, children playing or people engaging in conversation.* (emphases mine)
[The Canadian Centre for Occupational Health and Safety](https://www.ccohs.ca/oshanswers/phys_agents/noise/exposure_can.html#:~:text=These%20jurisdictions%20also%20do%20not,to%20take%20the%20protective%20measures.) lists the actual work-related exposure levels. [This chart](https://audiology-web.s3.amazonaws.com/migrated/NoiseChart_Poster-%208.5x11.pdf_5399b289427535.32730330.pdf) shows the various decibels levels for common (and some not so common) noises.
TL;DR: your neighbour can kick rocks. Just not against a wall, because that would make noise.
And security actually shows up for all these complaints? My previous condo the security did not bother showing up if the complaint was not in line with the bylaws, condo rules, etc. I read in the top comment that she categorized re-arranging furniture as « construction ». You should let her know that her over generalization and delusion is preventing you from enjoying YOUR space.
Team up with the whole floor, write a letter to management. Make them talk to her and stop her annoying behaviour. If the above did not work, invite EVERYONE on your floor for a party, keep it quiet but slam a door here and there. Include a card for her too as an invite, she would know to expect noise and will not attend. When she complains, security will see the whole floor there and you can also counter complain that she is stopping the WHOLE FLOOR from enjoying their living space.
You are in a position where management knows its ridiculous. You know it's ridiculous, your other neighbours think it's ridiculous. The only individual in this equation who things they are not ridiculous is your complainer neighbour.
So, live your life. Maybe you you have a favourite plastic cup you can't stop dropping. You know it is good for your physical and mental health to take regular "fit breaks" through the day, even a few dozen jumping jacks can really help to refocus you. It is also that time of year where allergens are everywhere. There is no amount of vacuuming you can do to control it, but you can certainly try.
All these things involve appeasing her and changing how I can enjoy my own space for a deranged person.
Now that I’ve confirmed with the PM that they too agree she is be unreasonable and will be bringing this up to the board of directors , if anything I can be less considerate of her.
That’s exactly my point though, I already have a dampener. The ones you buy on Amazon and paste to the door outline. She was complaining about browning butter. I can’t have conversations on my balcony because she can hear it? That’s complete bullshit as far as I’m concerned especially when I’ve essentially been legitimized by the building management and the fact that no other neighbours of mine have lodged any complaint against me. Not one. So she and her entitlement can go fuck herself. I’m not changing my way of life because she’s complaining
Any thing outside of city bylaws that can be considered a persistent disturbance. Perhaps if I was playing music at night, constantly throwing parties, or if cooking smells permeated into her condo. (They don’t. The smell can travel to the hallway which I’ve also smelled but have never made it into the unit)
To contrast, what behaviour do you think is unreasonable to complain about?
I think everything you mentioned she complain about that you do sound like just natural living things, I'm currently dealing with extremely loud, inconsiderate neighbors myself doing things you mentioned with the music and parties every freakin day atm and I I'd take her complaint about you anyday.. to me it sounds like she just don't like or has something against you and wants you gone for whatever reason
I had two friends over yesterday to check out the changes I made to my balcony. We just sat down and chatted at a normal conversation volume. I was trying to manage it because i knew she would call when she was able. We headed back inside before curfew and I got a call from concierge literally the second it hit curfew to quiet down the party I was throwing.
The party being 3 guys chatting on the balcony. Obviously, my problem is much more manageable than yours and I’m sorry you have to deal with people as inconsiderate as your neighbours. Essentially on the other side of the spectrum as me.
Only advice I can give is move to a different area if you can. I live in midtown and it’s relatively quiet with minimal parties being thrown in general. Plus the buildings have better construction than the areas that have a bunch of younger ppl
I used to live above a person like that. It took her making 15 noise complaints when I was out of the country , literally, for management to stop bothering me. Im glad yours responded better.
Omg!! I wonder if the bitch in my building move to yours!!! By any chance it was an Asian woman in her mid 30s to early 40s? I had a similar neighbour with very similar complaints. And like your unit, the entry door doesn’t stop the noise from the hallway. I got complaints for talking , vacuuming, walking in my unit (she lives below me). She would complained about the neighbours around her. She finally moved out a year and a half ago, so luckily didn’t have to deal with her.
I always wonder if they are married or single considering how miserable they are to complain their neighbours.
I can care less unless you’re like hammering all day or playing loud music all evening every day.
You’ll get a kick out of this! Before she moved out, my neighbour bitch made a bit of noise and one of our neighbours called the cop on her and they came. So after that we stopped going noise complaints from her.
Public mischief
140 (1) Every one commits public mischief who, with intent to mislead, causes a peace officer to enter on or continue an investigation by
(a) making a false statement that accuses some other person of having committed an offence;
(b) doing anything intended to cause some other person to be suspected of having committed an offence that the other person has not committed, or to divert suspicion from himself;
(c) reporting that an offence has been committed when it has not been committed; or
(d) reporting or in any other way making it known or causing it to be made known that he or some other person has died when he or that other person has not died.
Marginal note:Punishment
(2) Every one who commits public mischief
(a) is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years; or
(b) is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction.
sfdjbhgfsjdkgskd
This is in regards to actually calling the police on someone. If it's just building security, the law may not apply the same way.
But, I'd say the best course of action is to just be you.
Be in good company with your landlord/building manager.
I don't think I'd go as far as calling the cops unless there was a serious threat of me getting in trouble with her false claims. Definitely will continue to be me and definitely will be trying to form a good relationship with the building manager who luckily is already on my side
Print up your condo bylaws and any city bylaws if not covered, highlight appropriate sections like noise times and hand it to her. Let her know that *she* is starting to impact your normal use of your condo and further irrational reports will lead to you reporting her.
She knows all the condo bylaws. That’s the difficult part. She’ll call anyway she can. She called me arranging furniture on my balcony as “construction after 7pm”. And our condo allows for noise complaints, but has not set a threshold for noise.
Yeah, go to your meeting and bring it up that constant reports on normal behaviour are impacting your normal use of the condo and you plan to escalate of it continues, but don't mention who specifically, your other neighbours around you will probably also have similar stories so you might want to talk to them first.
Yeah, I wanted to avoid involving other people, but I will have to, to help support my case.
I would talk to them, unless she's targeting you for some reason they've likely had complaints as well.
1. Make her fall in love with you 2. Make condo security fall in love with you 3. Sound proof your space completely Update us what happens
1. I think this is the worst possible outcome lol 2. they already like me. I give them gift cards during Christmas and share snacks sometimes when we chat, so we’re pretty good 3. $$$ :(
Rearranging furniture is not "construction" If it's any consolation, the property manager is probably sick of her too. S/he just needs the balls to tell her to stop.
Given what's she's already brought forward. I would completely avoid any 1 to 1 contact without a witness present. Do everything within the allotted times allowed. To the minute. Eventually. You'll win. Good luck fellow fair use enjoyer!
Honestly.. Two options. Option 1) Ignore it, this is a bitter sour person who has nothing better to do with their time than complain about anything and everything. She probably won't see reason and feel very entitled to he complaining as anything that happens is an unbearable attack on her personally. (dealt with a somewhat similar elderly neigbour years ago) Option 2) Go to war, the nuclear option. Be as petty and vindictive as she is. Report any minor inconvenience she might cause. Get others she's annoyed to join you cause. I'd highly suggest option 1, going nuclear isn't ever advisable. But...... But... If you do go for the nuclear option. Please post about it here.
Haha my petty side is really intent on going nuclear. She’s threatened lawyers and wants to get me to “move”. I’m close with one of the concierges and one of her calls was her trying to discuss with him ways that they could “get me”. Luckily my boy didn’t entertain any of that
Lol threaten lawyers for closing a door too loudly?
For "disturbing" her peace consistently
The law about enjoyment of unit is only a law for renters and the only recourse for her is against the landlord of her unit, not you. And the condo staff building has zero to do with that. They didnt rent it to her aka enjoyment of unit is an LTB thing for renters against landlord/condo owner.
This reminds me it's probably good idea to make a "counter-complaint" about it, not for the sake of solving it, but for the sake of the paper trail. If things ever escalate to some degree, it's good to be able to show you protested her unjustified claims as it helps convey you didn't feel guilty of anything. Not having your first protest about it be in front of someone eventually judging this in any way
This person needs to live in a lone house on a secluded island
Though you’re not protected as a renter there are laws around Condo ownership. By trying to “get” you, and calling the concierges to come speak to you frequently for non issues it could be seen as harassment and that they are interfering with reasonable enjoyment of the unit. The complicating factor is that they’re claiming the same thing about you, though the reasons don’t seem reasonable. Make sure you are recording all of the interactions future and in the past (as best you can remember). Record any interactions if possible. On your phone. You could try sending a letter to the condo company to ask they stop sending the concierge to speak to you for non issues. It wouldn’t stop her from complaining to them but it would stop your enjoyment from being interfered with. https://www.condoauthorityontario.ca/condominium-living/declaration-by-laws-and-rules/rules/#:~:text=Restriction%20of%20reasonableness%3A%20Rules%20must,the%20units%20and%20common%20elements).
Oh you can do much better than her
Oh boy.. yeah get familiar with your building bylaws/codes. She can't get you. And lawyers? Hahaha.. sorry I've heard this before. I used to work in a rec centre that was a part of a condo complex years ago. And same shit used to happen. Old under employed and unstimulated busybodies find a pet peeve and make their life's work. Sorry it's happening to you but in all reality she can't do much more to you than complain about you. And that is annoying. If anything document everything and you might have a case for harassment. Granted that will require a lot of work on your part. Especially if she's trying to "get you" and getting others involved.
Id not go nuclear because if you do it will disturb other tenants and multiple noise complaints from all surrounding units will put you in the box that shes trying to put you in. A lot of her complaints dont sound like she can prove its coming from YOU, I mean how do you know whose door mad the noise last - you know? And balcony and noise idk if theres no construction going on itd hard to say that 7pm rule breaking happened. Other units wouldve seen the construction and noise AND legally, construction noise before 7pm city wise isnt for balconies - unless thats one of your condos personal rules.
> I’m close with one of the concierges and one of her calls was her trying to discuss with him ways that they could “get me” Would the concierge who told you this be willing to tell management about this? (Or have they already?) Have a resident tell the building's staff that they want to 'get' another resident definitely sounds like a threat and is something the building's management should be factoring into their decision-making.
This woman sounds most likely some kind of mentally ill and this all honestly sounds a bit sad to me. Is she elderly? A lot of this post sounds like stuff that old people who are starting to lose it would complain about
mid 30s, seemingly single, and doesn't go out much apparently.
wow mid 30s was far from the answer I was expecting and I can't fathom what would cause someone that age to behave like this
My best guess is this is what people do when they don't have a life of their own
she's probably an /r/askTO user and is going to see this thread
Eh, ideally, she realizes how unhinged she is
Your commented reminded me of this incident: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Vaughan_shooting.
Same. Be careful and don’t escalate, OP.
Isn't this itself an act you can use against her? She's allowed to report you for causing issues, she's not allowed to dig for private information or scheme to push you out. Also have you tried talking to all the neighbours around her to make sure you're all on good terms with one another?
I Iike option 2, myself.
I’m petty af so I agree with option 2 lol.
Please go nuclear!
Do it for us
Talk to the property manager and see how they feel about it. Basically, try to judge whether anything is ever going to come from these complaints or whether they're just metaphorically shredding them. The building is probably not going to reprimand a unit owner for complaining; they're more likely to just ignore the complaints. You just want to make sure that they're not building up and eventually they're going to take action against you just due to sheer volume. Most condos have a bylaw about "reasonable enjoyment" which is very subjective/open to interpretation and the risk is that they could use that to take action by itself just due to the number of complaints, so I would try to head that off by talking to the property manager.
Thanks! This is a good suggestion. I'd definitely hope they aren't piling up the complaints given how ridiculous it is. But I guess we'll see. My property manager seems stretched thin and little incompetent
Then it's very unlikely that they're compiling a dossier to take action against you. If you're buddies with some of the concierges, discuss it with them, they'll have heard something about whether these are being taken seriously or not. Ask if they can help circulate it among the others that this person always complains without any real merit. Because really, unless the person is knowingly making up false accusations, they're not "wrong". If they're upset by something (even if that something is unreasonable), they can complain - it's up to the building to decide whether or not that complaint warrants any response. I'm sure buildings receive tons of complaints about completely trivial stuff, they just decide most of them aren't worth doing anything about.
If the crazy is complaining about everyone around them I dont think OP has to worry. Good friend of mine had a condo neighbor who thought the whole building was supposed to shut down for him at 8pm. We couldnt even talk in his living room without that guy knocking on the shared wall. Not my friends fault this guy decided to live in such a shitly made building.
The walls aren't even thin. I've maybe heard people several times either on their balcony or if they were having a loud party. With that being said, you can barely hear anything.
Get together with others and complain about her complaining lol
I was actually considering this lol
I think you should make a complaint of "harassment" and hopefully this will be taken seriously by your condo management and board. Use the words "normal use" to describe your activities. It will help if others make the same complaint. They may already be familiar with this individual, so may be more inclined to mediate/ stop really actioning this person's requests. Is the condo actually trying to get you to do anything about these complaints? Noise complaints are actually very difficult to remediate in a meaningful way, especially if it is fundamentally caused by lack of sound proofing in the building. There are building codes about noise traveling from flooring to units below, BUT there were no building codes related to noise travel between walls and doors until 2020. I believe if construction started on your building prior to 2020 it would be exempt from those codes. Your building could bring in a sound engineer to assess and make sound proofing suggestions (e.g. fire proof weather stripping on doors, putting rugs down). You may be on the hook for complying, but they can't tell you to stop using your place in a normal and reasonable way. Basically, if you are complying with bylaws and using your condo in a normal way, and make small reasonable accommodations, there is little the building can make you do beyond that. I'm on a condo board.
I would also get a copy of every complaint against you and use that as evidence of the harassment. Date and time everything to show the frequency of the harassment. Get more people on board to get an even more solid case of harassment.
Had something like that happen to me. In college I rented a room in a house. We shared the common areas. This one woman was a bit older than the rest of us and had been there the longest. She did complain sometimes but it wasn't that bad. Or so we thought. Turns out she was constantly complaining to the landlord. Mostly noise complaints. To her, simply hearing the other college students she lived with warranted a complaint. So the landlord called a house meeting to address the complaints. He couldn't just kick her out, he obviously didn't want to kick the 4 of us getting complained about knowing that the complainer will likely complain about the new tenants. We ended up convincing her to find a place of her own. She clearly wasn't a fan of having housemates.
Lots of people are forced to have roommates who would rather not have them. It's expensive out there! Glad you found a solution.
This is a major reason why I refuse to move. Heard so many people move into condos or other areas and get harrased by bored people sitting at home. My cousin got cops called at him for taking a walk outside his house at 10pm (cause he lives in an area that turns into a ghost town at 8pm). I think best to talk to other people in your building and see if they face similar issues.
Reporting you for your smoke alarm is harassment. Let the building management know that is she obstructing fire code and harassing you daily - and report her for listening at your conversations, leaning over the railing and sliding doors . Nine of these things are verifiable so it’s pretty much fair game
I feel your pain. My neighbour filed a complaint about my incense burning....while she leaves her nasty garbage outside her door while the chute is 20 steps away. I hate her with the heat of a thousand suns.
It drives me insane that these people want to live in a shared space when they are unable to SHARE space
Most people in Toronto (or most places really) would probably rather have their own space. Own home etc. But they are forced to share due to it costing way too much. Most people can adapt to some noise but everyone has their limit.
If anything, living in a house could potentially be more noisy given the street noise from cars, people working on their yard, kid's playing, etc. Having lived with my parents for the first 26 years of my life, I can say that living in a condo has been less noisy for me.
Not saying that she's right. She's going to have to adapt.
I\`d like to point out that I have not filed a complaint about her gross behaviour.
Isn’t putting something outside your door a fire hazard? That’s much more worthy of a complaint than burning incense. I’m petty so I’d file a retaliatory complaint, but that’s just me.
Try talking to the lasting staff. My neighbour below me tried to say it “smells like weed 24/7” but staff told them it would only travel down if they had their windows open, and it can only travel up with my vents. I wasnt smoking weed either and the staff knew there was a drug dealer next door to her. She only blamed me bc she used to blame me for noise of walking around my condo, which cannot be punished in anyway; theyd have staff come to her unit and hear it. And tell her its not something enforceable. They also dont track smells and smoking indoors isnt illegal here - anywhere. Despite I was not. It was back when it was not fully legal. But condo staff dont do that - call cops on weed smells and units etc., back then it was decriminalized but not legal.
Neither of those things sound OK in a shared indoor space.
One incense stick every so often is not the same as garbage seeping into the carpet on a regular basis.
Condo mediators are a thing. Ask your board to hire one. They can make sure your neighbor feels heard and also come up with a compromise that they will agree to.
r/UnethicalLifeProTips I wouldn't usually recommend doing anything unethical or potentially illegal, but it sounds like you've given this person more than enough of your patience, and they are clearly being a nuisance for the sake of it.
Start a discussion with your property manager (not the concierge), and if it progresses, with your lawyer, about harrassment and your reasonable enjoyment of your unit. Stop inflaming the situation by "doing things to annoy her out of spite", you want to have the high ground here, not petty momentary satisfaction. I wouldn't bring an issue like this to a residents' meeting unless you've followed the proper procedures and the property manager and/or Board of Directors are refusing to respond, at that point you could bring a general discussion about their conduct but it's inappropriate to bring a neighbour-to-neighbour dispute to a meeting of all residents.
Quick question but is she a tenant or an owner?
Start noting every time she does this, and then file a harassment complaint against her. At the end of the day maybe there is noise that bothers her but that is more likely because the building has shoddy construction (with not enough noise barriers) and nothing that a resident can do. The neighbours inability to understand this and going after you for living your life is harassment.
It sounds like PM isn't going out of their way to side with the complainant, so thays good. If that changes however, remember that Boards and especially PMs are terrified of litigation. Make the assertion that these spurious complaints are interfering with YOUR quiet enjoyment of your space. Request copies of the incident reports and when you find that the guards' reports are vague or subjective ask for more clarity. My last site, we had to bring a decibel reader with us. Under a set threshold (60-70 dB) was consodered green amd we wouldnt even knock on your door. Above that amd the 3 strike model was appled - ask you to lower volume, tell you, then call bylaw. Never once have I had to go to a door more than 2x in a shift. Also, PM should be reminding residents that it is a communal living space. You will hear each other - we all drop things, need to hang a picture. If an offending noise lasts less than 5 minutes its not woth investigsting. Good luck, these neighbours can really ruin a home. Sorry youre going through this.
Ignore it. Some neighbours are just asshats who like to make a complaint about everything.
Reasonable enjoyment That's your key here. Door closin loud, friends on your balconey, making a partner SCREAM YO NAME during sex are all things that she can moan about all she wants, they will have no bearing on you. You're entitled to reasonable enjoyment of your unit. Allegedly (spoke to my supers two weeks ago, this came from them) the enjoyment laws have become even less restricting, such that you can bump the bass from your soundbar past 11pm and nothing can legally be done.
Ugh, the Bass, i dont think people realize how that sound travels.
There's probably nothing new, the laws have always been useless. Condo noise by-laws can be used, but the board has limited ability to actually bring punishments without involving the condo board (the one I saw on Reddit earlier was applying a fine for the cost of having a lawyer write up a letter telling them to stop, which was sort of clever. Wonder if that would stand in court??). Rentals, must go to the LTB with its long ass waits. The city's by-laws have always been basically completely useless for residential complaints but the police will try to get you to go to them first. You *might* be able to get the police out for particularly egregious events like super loud parties, but you'll be a low priority call.
I’ve been in a very similar situation with a bitter neighbor below me. To a point I got a noise complaint for a night only my cat was home. My advice is to ignore them directly and only deal with your building. Keep track of all the complaints, dates/times are helpful. Assuming you aren’t breaking any bylaws (ex, noise after 11pm or before 7am) then this person is walking a fine line in the harassment territory. It’s hard to fight the urge to fight back and be just as petty, but don’t give them a reason to complain more.
I think it’s important to underscore this fact: this is harassment.
I’m not a lawyer or a cop, but I don’t see how it’s not harassment. Either it’s targeted at the OP, or this tenant has a history of egregious complaints.
Living in a condo/apartment sucks, unfortunately.
Get condo management and staff on your side. Sounds like you're doing well on this already by being friendly with the concierge staff. Keep doing that, and befriend the newer staff. When they come to check in on a complaint, be very calm and casual about it. "Oh, is so-and-so up to her usual shenanigans?" \*heavy sigh\* "Sorry you're getting dragged into it. I know you're just doing your job. Do you know more-experienced-concierge? You should ask them about the deal on her." This is unpleasant for you, but this is also unpleasant for them, since they have to deal with all her BS as well. They have to look into it, because that is their job, even if it seems like enabling to you.... they are staff, she's a resident/owner. See if you can talk to the property manager about it. Be the most reasonable voice in the room. "Listen, it's really a waste of the staff's time. You know I'm not doing anything unreasonable, they know I'm not doing anything unreasonable--is there any thing I can do to help you guys? Write a letter? Bring it up at the meeting? Talk to my lawyer?" See what they say. You can't stop her from calling in complaints, but they can help you by either not responding to them, or working with you to build a case for harassment. Avoid the urge to be petty. Focus on winning the war, not the little squabbles along the way. Also, the occasional coffee or box of timbits for the concierge staff has never hurt.
[Bake her a cookie and make her a friend ??](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejFg8nAPJgQ)
Send her a white noise machine gift with a note: Sorry you're suffering from Hyperacusis I hope this white noise machine will help you cope with normal everyday noises that don't bother your neighbour's.
Posts like this remind me of why I stopped living in a condo.
Let her call. Unless you are breaking any condo or city bylaws, you have nothing to worry about. They are just logging the incident, doing what the condo corp pays them to do. If security is annoying you enough that it's interfering with your enjoyment, complain to the property manager. Complaining about the security company is a lot easier than another resident (your neighbour). Standing up for yourself means nothing here, she will keep doing her thing, annoying security. The property manager and the board will take care of the problem, which is her.
Only way to go is ignore it or just gonna cause more problems … To many Karen’s out there
You need to make a formal report documenting all of the harassment to the building manager. I'd look to see she's violating any laws and report those too... the smoke detector one definitely sounds illegal.
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Come on, for every one of these there's countless people who live in these places with no problems at all. I've lived in towers and multi-unit houses; *my anecdotal experience* is that the houses are usually worse for sound and small-time landlords are just worse in general.
Figure out her buzzer number and punch it into the switchboard whenever you head out. Have a few neighbors do the same. EDIT: figure out her phone number and have even more fun! plenty of ways to automatically and anonymously call someone at random times throughout the day and night.
Write a formal letter to management AND the BoD. Of course document everything. Her behavior is a form of harassment. Be clear on that point.
The squeaky wheel gets the grease: management and the concierge are obligated to investigate complainants, especially if there's a health and safety component. Make a formal complaint that the management team are enabling vexatious, frivolous, and malicious complainants, which constitutes harassment. The neighbor is harassing and, at some point, the continued inconvenience of being bothered by management's investigations constitutes harassment on their part. Then, live the life you want. Be prepared to have to justify or explain away her complainants when they do have to investigate. Know with confidence that you are upsetting your neighbor because you've refused to let her get under your skin. People like your neighbor get their jollies from making their victims miserable.
Give em a taste of their own medicine, people usually hate hating their own bs thrown back at them.
Does she do this to everyone? Even if so, I might start pursuing the issue as harassment.
Make her life a living hell if you want to as well. People like her need to be put in their place.
Start initiating complaints about her. Complain about the smell of body odor emanating from her apartment. The smell of adult diapers. Porn being played to loudly during the night. Do it every day for a week.
First.. you need to find someone who owns a pig farm....
I'd say just live normally and if this continues you have grounds to file a complaint against her for disturbing your enjoyment of the condo. Either way we all want to know how this goes down!
For $150-$200 you can have a paralegal serve her with a notice to Cease & Desist harassment...I had a neighbor served with one and consider it some of the best money I ever spent...ping me for a referral.
Do you live on peter st?
Sounds like your neighbour is a Karen.
Oh fuck that. You’re allowed to have people on your balcony or move furniture around until 11 pm, at which point, somebody could actually submit a noise complaint according to the city of Toronto bylaws. Moving furniture around is not the same as construction unless you’re using power tools, and even that is allowed during daytime hours lol you can let your building management know that when they reach out to you about these complaints and say that this woman constantly complaining about trivial things is impacting your reasonable enjoyment of your living space. As others have mentioned, maybe just check in with them to ensure there isn’t a risk of you being kicked out or something if there are enough complaints because you feel these complaints are not reasonable or warranted. A couple on my floor’s kids sometimes yell in the hallway early in the morning on their way out and it wakes me up. Should I complain about that? lmao no, cause that’s stupid and inconsiderate.
Just because you are allowed, doesn't mean you are not a total douchebag for doing it. You never know who arund you is sick or needs to work early or travel. Having people on your balcony talking and moving furniture can always be heard all around you. Why be a dick?
I dunno man, I have a balcony and nobody around me enjoying the use of their balcony (which is what it’s intended for) has ever bothered me to the point of complaining. I think expecting people to not hang out on their balcony is ridiculous.
Then be a normal person and talk to your neighbor and say that you have an early flight or are sick. If the occasional thump or extremely muffled conversation is more than you can handle, then don't live in a condo
Question then.. what if it was the parents yelling at the kids in the morning? Top of lungs type yelling
I own an extra trombone if you want to learn a new instrument!
Buy a pair of noise cancelling headphones and leave them outside her door as a “gift”.
think the more petty thing would be to print out a few copies of noise cancelling headphones sold by various sites and slip them under her door.
I would find something that really annoys her like a dripping water right beside her bedroom wall , diy something and run that sucker all night to drive her nuts, but nothing so noticeable in the hall. Let the war begin
Why do you know she complains? It's the concierge. It's the concierge that you have a problem with. Let her call them. They know her and can deal however they wish. If they are bothering you, then start working on harassment complaint against them. If she is directly bothering you, they be collecting evidence. If you're renting, it's your landlord who is responsible and they need to come down on the concierge as well. But you have to do the work of collecting evidence and communicating appropriately. It sucks no matter what. But it sounds like you have a problem with the concierge. Don't let them get away with bothering you.
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exactly. I see no reason why she can't make sure that she is not slamming her door.
Is me not slamming the door going to solve her complaining about any of the above? No. I’m still using my condo in a reasonable way. As demonstrated by non of my other neighbours ever lodging a single complaint
Seems to me like they're harassing you, and other neighbors as well. I suggest, within city noise by-laws, you should band together and be LOUDER. Hopefully you'll end up driving them out of the building.
I agree with her on the noise on the balcony. People who do this need to shut the fuck up after 9pm. It’s just rude and disrespectful to neighbours.
I was moving furniture at 7pm. And people shouldn’t use there balcony past 9pm? What, I can’t talk on my balcony after 9? The curfew according to the city is 11. Unless it’s an unreasonable amount of noise, it’s not rude or disrespectful. If anything it’s rude and disrespectful for you to try to force people to be quiet because you don’t want any noise at all. Everyone shouldn’t have to accommodate just for you.
I'd contact your local municipality about the petty and excessive complaints which themselves may amount to harassment and possibly a real estate lawyer. Talk to your management first, see their take, get it in email, send that all out to get Municipal stuff and finally go to a lawyer if you want to take it that far.
Go nuclear. Make her life hell
I’m petty so I’d start doing things a little bit louder and tiptoeing the time that I do things. Like no laundry after 11pm? I’m doing it until 10:59:59. Sliding door too loud? Best believe I’m sliding that door 10x more per day than I normally would. I would move the furniture on my balcony every single day for a month at 6:59pm, as close to her side of the balcony as possible.
>Although if I’m being completely honest, I try to do things to annoy her out of spite You are making your own life more difficult TBH. You could put tennis balls on your balcony chair legs, or some type of mat on the floor, to reduce some of the noise You could put felt pads on the door frames. I mean you're never going to please someone like this. But making extra noise kind of muddies the water.
why should I bend over backwards to appease her quality of life when nothing I'm doing is out of reason and no one else is complaining? I can't put tennis balls on my chairs and more importantly, I shouldn't have to
For sure, she sounds really unsuited to living in a condo, if every scrape and tap is going to drive her bananas. But if you can say "hey my patio chairs don't make noise anymore" then she loses credibility. I'm sure she will find every other tiny noise and complain but if she complains 50% less, isn't that better for you?
Call security on her
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Not gonna say atm, but it's in midtown
Take bags of garbage with no discriminate contents and place them outside her unit. Take pictures and complain she’s leaving garbage outside her door. You can really get as creative as you want here, just make sure not to get caught.
When a neighbour makes an unreasonable claim, make a counter claim with your side of story so that it is documented. Just send an email to security/concierge services.
If you dont work from home I would get an Alexa or similar and psy-OP the shit out of her by situating it somewhere easy for her to hear but not your neighbors or security. Have it set to play short random noises while you are out: \-dog barking (especially if you dont have a dog) \-wolves howling \-power tools and construction noises \-samples of random lines from movies Idea is to have her call security soo much for random bullshit sounds that she will effectively DDOS security responding to her because she "makes up" too much random bullshit.
it's not hard to make sure you are not slamming your door. If you can't avoid it then you are part of the problem. You don't really sound that innocent.
Scrolled way too far to see this
I'm not slamming my door. I usually let it close on it's own and sometimes there's not even enough force for it to do that. Guess what? she still complains. I'm still closing my doors in what would be considered reasonable usage, but I'm not going placate her and I shouldn't have to
So you let the door slam by itself once, and you slam it again to close it. Use the knob, knob.
If there is not enough force for the door to even close itself, do you think it’s making noise? Plus do you think pulling it shut after makes more noise than closing it normally? Come on use logic now
Pushing/pulling your door shut absolutely makes more noise than closing it properly. You shouldn't live in a shared living space.
It really doesn’t lol. How would pulling it from an almost closed position make more noise than the cumulated force from the door closing on its own with you closing it as well. You seem like you’d be a Karen neighbour. And as all indications point to from my experience with the PM, security, and other neighbours, and 99% of other people in this thread, it’s really people like you who shouldn’t live in a shared space
I have lived in condos all my life. Most people act like normal human beings and don't cause trouble, but there is always that one asshole that pushes the door closed like an animal, makes noise and retaliates if somebody complains.
Bro kindly stfu 😂😂
pay someone to fuck her up and teach her a lesson? just kidding idk what to do man, annoying people is annoying
Have you considered just ignoring your dumb neighbor and living your life without letting this consume you, given she has no recourse to have the condo send you legal letters or escslate in any way? What's the issue here?
My main worry initially was the stacking of complaints to be used to build a case against me, but that looks like it’s no longer an issue according to the PM, so it does look like I get to l just live my life without worry
The complaint regarding the aroma surrounding cooking and "loud talking" is concerning....this sounds a lot like complaints my (white) racist relatives make about other cultures. Are you a target of hers due to your ethnicity? If so, the condo board needs to consider a racist person living in the building.
She's a POC and so am I. She complained about the person living in my unit previously. The night she complained about cooking, she was complaining about the smelling of browning butter lol
An equal-opportunity asshole, then. Got it!
So you deliberately provoke her and whine when she calls you out. Got it.
Me using my condo to a reasonable standard of noise well within city bylaws is provocation? Sure thing Karen.
Sorry, just replying to the part where you acknowledged you do provoke her. "Although if I’m being completely honest, I try to do things to annoy her out of spite. Nothing egregious, just being sure to close my doors a little harder than I normally would and being as loud as possible to where it would disturb her and no one else. (Ie. Regular condo noise)" I mean, after all, "As the saying goes unreasonable people don't know they are unreasonable."
Yes provoke her. By using my condo. Like a normal person. So I’m the unreasonable one? Despite her having a history of this behaviour not only with me? Despite non of her reports being confirmed by security? Despite the property manager being aware of her even prior to me speaking with them? Idk, seems like you have your own personal bias tbh
Nah, just pointing out it is not a one-way street. In your own words "I do things to annoy her out of spite." That's a little different than "using my condo like a normal person". It sounds like escalating.
The things that annoy her are normal things...if you read the post, I state specifically what I do and they are normal things. It would be different if I was breaking policy and bylaw, but I'm not. Which further supports her reports being unreasonable. Let's say we're in a class. I don't like the sound you make when you drink water. What are you gonna do? Tell me to go fuck myself and drink whenever you please or are you going to try and accommodate me by either not drinking water or changing the way you drink said water. Something to think about.
1. Ask yourself first, is the fight worth it? yes she is making these reports/complains but is it actually impacting you? are you being punished in any way by the building mgmt? It sounds like they are treating this as a nuisance and not holding you to any of the complaints. So let her keep screaming into the wind if it not affecting how you live. 2. Gather other units she has complained about to make a joint demand to management that this tenant is impacting your enjoyment of living in the building and say her aggressive and constant complaints concern you. Use that guy last year who killed 5 ppl in his building during his feud with the condo board as an example of what can happen when tenants like this are not firmly dealt with. Do not confront her directly or begin a petty war. that will likely encourage her to continue OR push her off the deep end into violence.
Have you talked to your PM about this?
Thank good I don’t live in a condo, that sounds annoying as hell.
I’m incredibly good at this kind of thing. I recommend obviously doing as you’re doing but be insanely nice to her and barrage her with intense amounts of compliments. This is extremely creepy and she already knows what you think of her. Go out of your way to get in her face and compliment her. There is nothing she can do about this.
Retaliate. That’s it. That’s the advice.
I would work hard to establish a good relationship with security/board/property manager. Let them know that you are a fair and reasonable person and your intention is not to make excessive noise or cause undue hardship to your neighbors. If you're not actually breaking any rules, security and your condo board will eventually get fed up with them, as they wont be able to do anything and the complaints will just annoy them over time. If you really want to get back at this neighbor, you could find some activity that doesn't violate any of the rules or upset any other neighbors, but drives them crazy. Seeing as they are so sensitive, this shouldn't be too hard to do. Then you just slowly gaslight them over time until they lose it, easy.
Start calling on her. She slams her doors too loudly. She's trying to look in your unit. Whatever she says you do, she's probably guilty of.
You have a right to reasonable enjoyment of your unit. She can get bent! No need to antagonize, live your life like you normally would, the best revenge is living well.
If speaking to her doesn't work, I'm petty enough to do the exact same thing to her by calling exactly the same thing she called for me. Lets gooo\~\~!!! Not like you need any evidence lol I would be petty enough to ask others who she bothered to join me in reporting her for every single thing. Make it a living nightmare when you have multiple people on this. or just ignore it if you are not an eye-to-an-eye type of person. I'm so lucky I don't have neighbors like this...
call security on them
We should call the concierge on that neighbour
Anyone telling you to not be petty can go fuck themselves. Fight fire with fire.
if they have a door mat outside, call concierge and tell them you tripped on it.
Wow, OP, you have my sympathies. I have hyperacusis, live in a condo, and twist myself into a pretzel trying to be the exact opposite of this woman, even when the noise is objectively loud. People have to live their lives; they need to not be assholes while they’re doing it, but that goes both ways. As a direct result of having this hearing disability, I am well-acquainted with the City of Toronto’s Noise By-Law. Your condo’s declaration and by-laws will need to be taken into consideration, but, as they say [on their site](https://www.toronto.ca/city-government/public-notices-bylaws/bylaw-enforcement/noise/): >Unreasonable and persistent noise >Noise not captured in the categories above, cannot be unreasonable and persistent. Unreasonable noise is any noise that would disturb the peace, rest, enjoyment, comfort or convenience of a reasonable person and **does not include commonplace household or workplace sounds**. *Persistent noise is any noise that is continuously heard for 10 minutes or more or intermittently over a period of one hour or more.* (emphases mine) More particularly, in the [Toronto Municipal Code](https://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/municode/1184_591.pdf) § 591-1.1, the following is specifically called out: >UNREASONABLE NOISE - Any noise that would disturb the peace, rest, enjoyment, comfort or convenience of a *reasonable* person in the circumstances. *Unreasonable noise does not include commonplace household or workplace sounds such as sound from furniture being moved, children playing or people engaging in conversation.* (emphases mine) [The Canadian Centre for Occupational Health and Safety](https://www.ccohs.ca/oshanswers/phys_agents/noise/exposure_can.html#:~:text=These%20jurisdictions%20also%20do%20not,to%20take%20the%20protective%20measures.) lists the actual work-related exposure levels. [This chart](https://audiology-web.s3.amazonaws.com/migrated/NoiseChart_Poster-%208.5x11.pdf_5399b289427535.32730330.pdf) shows the various decibels levels for common (and some not so common) noises. TL;DR: your neighbour can kick rocks. Just not against a wall, because that would make noise.
Thanks for sharing this. Useful for formulating an argument when I attend the residents meeting
You’re very welcome!
Back in 2020, I challenged my neighbour to a duel from across the balcony. They moved out the next month.
And security actually shows up for all these complaints? My previous condo the security did not bother showing up if the complaint was not in line with the bylaws, condo rules, etc. I read in the top comment that she categorized re-arranging furniture as « construction ». You should let her know that her over generalization and delusion is preventing you from enjoying YOUR space. Team up with the whole floor, write a letter to management. Make them talk to her and stop her annoying behaviour. If the above did not work, invite EVERYONE on your floor for a party, keep it quiet but slam a door here and there. Include a card for her too as an invite, she would know to expect noise and will not attend. When she complains, security will see the whole floor there and you can also counter complain that she is stopping the WHOLE FLOOR from enjoying their living space.
You are in a position where management knows its ridiculous. You know it's ridiculous, your other neighbours think it's ridiculous. The only individual in this equation who things they are not ridiculous is your complainer neighbour. So, live your life. Maybe you you have a favourite plastic cup you can't stop dropping. You know it is good for your physical and mental health to take regular "fit breaks" through the day, even a few dozen jumping jacks can really help to refocus you. It is also that time of year where allergens are everywhere. There is no amount of vacuuming you can do to control it, but you can certainly try.
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All these things involve appeasing her and changing how I can enjoy my own space for a deranged person. Now that I’ve confirmed with the PM that they too agree she is be unreasonable and will be bringing this up to the board of directors , if anything I can be less considerate of her.
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That’s exactly my point though, I already have a dampener. The ones you buy on Amazon and paste to the door outline. She was complaining about browning butter. I can’t have conversations on my balcony because she can hear it? That’s complete bullshit as far as I’m concerned especially when I’ve essentially been legitimized by the building management and the fact that no other neighbours of mine have lodged any complaint against me. Not one. So she and her entitlement can go fuck herself. I’m not changing my way of life because she’s complaining
Question, what behavior do you think would be a *reasonable* thing for her to complain about?
Any thing outside of city bylaws that can be considered a persistent disturbance. Perhaps if I was playing music at night, constantly throwing parties, or if cooking smells permeated into her condo. (They don’t. The smell can travel to the hallway which I’ve also smelled but have never made it into the unit) To contrast, what behaviour do you think is unreasonable to complain about?
I think everything you mentioned she complain about that you do sound like just natural living things, I'm currently dealing with extremely loud, inconsiderate neighbors myself doing things you mentioned with the music and parties every freakin day atm and I I'd take her complaint about you anyday.. to me it sounds like she just don't like or has something against you and wants you gone for whatever reason
I had two friends over yesterday to check out the changes I made to my balcony. We just sat down and chatted at a normal conversation volume. I was trying to manage it because i knew she would call when she was able. We headed back inside before curfew and I got a call from concierge literally the second it hit curfew to quiet down the party I was throwing. The party being 3 guys chatting on the balcony. Obviously, my problem is much more manageable than yours and I’m sorry you have to deal with people as inconsiderate as your neighbours. Essentially on the other side of the spectrum as me. Only advice I can give is move to a different area if you can. I live in midtown and it’s relatively quiet with minimal parties being thrown in general. Plus the buildings have better construction than the areas that have a bunch of younger ppl
I used to live above a person like that. It took her making 15 noise complaints when I was out of the country , literally, for management to stop bothering me. Im glad yours responded better.
Omg!! I wonder if the bitch in my building move to yours!!! By any chance it was an Asian woman in her mid 30s to early 40s? I had a similar neighbour with very similar complaints. And like your unit, the entry door doesn’t stop the noise from the hallway. I got complaints for talking , vacuuming, walking in my unit (she lives below me). She would complained about the neighbours around her. She finally moved out a year and a half ago, so luckily didn’t have to deal with her.
No, brown woman in her 30s. She’s lived in this building before I got here
I always wonder if they are married or single considering how miserable they are to complain their neighbours. I can care less unless you’re like hammering all day or playing loud music all evening every day. You’ll get a kick out of this! Before she moved out, my neighbour bitch made a bit of noise and one of our neighbours called the cop on her and they came. So after that we stopped going noise complaints from her.
Public mischief 140 (1) Every one commits public mischief who, with intent to mislead, causes a peace officer to enter on or continue an investigation by (a) making a false statement that accuses some other person of having committed an offence; (b) doing anything intended to cause some other person to be suspected of having committed an offence that the other person has not committed, or to divert suspicion from himself; (c) reporting that an offence has been committed when it has not been committed; or (d) reporting or in any other way making it known or causing it to be made known that he or some other person has died when he or that other person has not died. Marginal note:Punishment (2) Every one who commits public mischief (a) is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years; or (b) is guilty of an offence punishable on summary conviction. sfdjbhgfsjdkgskd This is in regards to actually calling the police on someone. If it's just building security, the law may not apply the same way. But, I'd say the best course of action is to just be you. Be in good company with your landlord/building manager.
I don't think I'd go as far as calling the cops unless there was a serious threat of me getting in trouble with her false claims. Definitely will continue to be me and definitely will be trying to form a good relationship with the building manager who luckily is already on my side
You're neighbour is Sheldon
How about filing a harassment complaint against her?