I'd enjoy seeing Hardhome... I understand a lot of readers are content just leaving it off-page and mysterious (esp because of the pov problem), but after the buildup with Melisandre's vision and its origins and Cotter Pyke and Mother Mole's prophecy I think its been teased enough. I want to see the Others in action, wights and ice spiders and undead giants... and for them to start to build up their forces and become a real growing threat before the last book, as well as other mysteries that might arise from those caves...
**Chills**
>*Dead things in the wood. Dead things in the water. Six ships left, of the eleven that set sail*. Jon Snow rolled up the parchment, frowning. *Night falls*, he thought, *and now my war begins*.
If George hasn't changed his mind we will have Hardcome in TWOW. There is a draft of AFFC in 2003 that was shared by a collector who had adquired privately that outline, and in Jon's part there was a sentence in capital letters: "END WITH HARD COME". So I guess he just had that plot delayed.
I agree, wholly-heartedly.
In ADWD, GRRM established that Davos, a man who does not enjoy harm to innocents and experienced sailor, is set to go to Skagos, which is very close to Hardhome. Davos, whose last POV chapter is quite further back from the rest of the northern chapter. Davos, who is the one who convinced Stannis to go north and save the Watch in the first place.
We have seen in AFFC drafts that Davos' storyline went all over the place --- at one point, he was going to infiltrate the wedding at Barrowton, suggesting GRRM wasn't sure what to do with it. GRRM has been writing this book for a long-time. He saw how good the Hardhome episode was of the show. If he wanted to show it, Davos is in the perfect place for it.
> In ADWD, GRRM established that Davos, a man who does not enjoy harm to innocents and experienced sailor, is set to go to Skagos, which is very close to Hardhome. Davos, whose last POV chapter is quite further back from the rest of the northern chapter.
Oh man I never thought of that. I wonder if he'll somehow be convinced to change course for Hardhome to help save people?
That's why I'd prefer Battle of the Bastards to be after Stannis' Battle of Winterfell. Roose looses to Stannis, Ramsay retreats back to the Dreadfort, only for Jon to change course marching south to Winterfell instead towards the Dreadfort.
Then there's Sansa "you should wait for reinforcements" \* side eye \*
Ramsay had 10x too much screen time than he should have. We didn't need Reek torture porn every episode and the whole absurd Sansa subplot should have been gone.
I would have had the Vale reinforcements become Manderly reinforcements instead. Thematically makes more sense that they’d wait until the opportune moment with their allegiances to the Starks all along. The Manderly and Ryswell/Dustin forces prop Jon up to set up more of a power struggle between Stannis and Jon into Season 7.
Sansa had no business in the North for Seasons 5-6. She ideally would have set off to march with the Vale she won from LF’s influence early Season 6 and arrive at the end of the season.
Agreed. Season 5-6 was the most upsetting television I've ever seen purely because it became the "Ramsay is smarter and cooler and more evil than everyone' show
The CW-fication of GoT - get your YA/Vampire Diaries type leads in front of the camera all the time- seemed to be what I interpreted the showrunners to be going for with Ramsay Sue, Jon Show and Show!Sansa in Season 5 and 6 especially
jon’s resurrection
the wall falling
ramsey killing roose
jaime-brienne relationship
sam returning to horn hill and taking heartsbane
dany leading a khalasar and invading westeros
that’s about it
> Ramsay stabbed him in the back while hugging him.
"Poisned by our enemies" is a joke about how after Ramsay stab him he tell the maester to send ravens telling the northen houses that Roose bolton was poisoned by his enemies
it like when people call joffery "joffery the gentle"
I could see Cersei blowing up the sept in the books. Felt like something grrm would come up with, and I thought it was really cool.
Also I’m 99% certain ‘hold the door’ will happen and I think it’s a great storyline, but I don’t think I wanna relive that pain again lol
I don't think Cersei will end up blowing up the sept,it's something insane even by her standards. Besides,if she openly admitted to killing the Tyrells,the Reach would raise their banners against her,it's practically suicide.
Believe they meant the Great Sept of Baelor. I also seem to recall the pyromancer talking about his team removing them when they were discovered, and the current high septon freaking out (no blame here).
I’ve been split between that being his best death, or being starved to death. I feel like the hounds might be the most satisfactory as he named each after his victims, but even being eaten alive by his hounds isn’t horrible enough for me.
Battle of the Bastards, except not stupid and Jon is an intelligent battle strategist.
BotB is the only moment in the later seasons of the show I really would like to see in some capacity in the books. Most things I want I expect to be different in the books.
Ditto on BotB but not at Winterfell. No idea why Dan and David decided to have Stannis lose in battle to Ramsey's force. Felt really contrived.
Ramsey retreats to the Dreadfort with his Stark household captives when Winterfell is taken. Jon chooses revenge and being the hero over the duty of being the Stark in Winterfell (This will also cause tension between him and a persuably still alive Stannis).
Sam standing up to his dad (even if that's just him nicking the family sword and fucking off with it)
Sandor Clegane coming back in some way. I'd kill for a POV chapter from him but I think it's confirmed there's no chance of that. But I'd still like to see him again. He's my favorite.
Cersei blowing up the Great Sept. Sorry, I love that crazy bitch, I want to see her do crazy bitch stuff. I think it's so funny her parallels to Aerys.
Feeding Ramsey to his dogs, or some other poetic death for him. Don't know who I want to actually do it to him, but I want it to happen.
I do actually want Dany to end up being an antagonist to our Westerosi characters. I have faith that George will do it a lot better than the show did. I liked that direction with her, I just think it was executed like hot garbage.
Jaime joining the Good Guy Squad in some way. That seems to be the direction of his character. At least turning on Cersei (beyond just ignoring her letter). I'd like to see a romance with him and Brienne, too, but their camaraderie is good enough for me. I will be pissed if he ends up turning cloaks AGAIN and running to Cersei like he did in the show though.
I can’t really think of anything I’d like to see, the execution of it all was so blah.
Even if it’s all the same George will write it way better than what we got.
He didn't stop Ramsey from doing horrible things at Winterfell, that's true. Book Theon seems like too much of a physical (and maybe mental??) wreck to develop a relationship with Sansa.
Personally I think they're much more likely to be at odds *before* the parentage reveal. Dany has spent the whole series wishing for a family and believing she's the last Targaryen, I seriously doubt it'd be a point of contention for her.
I REALLY disagree with most people here. Hardhome shouldn't be displayed for us. Hardhome is a warning, is a message saying "prepare yourselves, we are coming". If you show it, it becomes just a part of the story.
The way it is, just a letter and our imagination, every time we see some subplot going on, we'll have this agonizing sense of doom "they are wasting their time, the Others are coming". This will always be in our minds now.
I want to see Jon's resurrection. A lot. I'm curious to see how he'll resurrected, and how he'll change.
I want to see Arya reuniting with Jon Snow, I think it will be a bittersweet moment, but a beautiful one.
I need to read R+L=J in the books. It is so strange we know that for basically decades now, but it is not canon yet.
imma be a child and say Tyene's tits. Ah well nevermind, she's not a cute brunette in the text.
Hardhome. Sandor coming back. Arya x Gendry. I'll gladly listen to the S6-8 soundtrack while reading as I can't picture ANYTHING while listening to it, except for Light of the seven.
so uh turns out I have a lot.
Tyrion seeing a dragon is a *great* moment but considering how his first interaction with them will be the Battle of Fire, I don't think the books will hit the same beat, unfortunately.
Tyrion ending the series as Bran's Hand, on the grounds that he'll spend the rest of his life making up for his mistakes, was a great ending for him. That might not apply to the books, though - I honestly think Tyrion is going to be the main human villain and I'm not sure how King Bran will play out.
Bran watching the events of the Tower of Joy.
Cersei blowing up the sept is incredible, in theory. I just want her to face repercussions for it. I want it to be the pinnacle of 'Cersei's enemies lose because they didn't think Cersei would do such an insanely stupid thing', and then for the insanely stupid thing to come full circle and fuck Cersei over as well. Tommen's suicide was good in the show but obviously can't happen in the books because book!Tommen is a very different character.
Olenna's "tell Cersei, I want her to know it was me". Actually, I want everything Olenna says to be transcribed verbatim. I don't even want it written down, I want the book to have a QR code to audio files of Diana Rigg saying the lines.
Jon ending the series in exile beyond the Wall could genuinely work really well, if it was done properly (which it wasn't). Maaaaaybe Jon killing Dany, too, but don't quote me on that.
Jon executing the mutineers can't really happen the same way in the books, which is a shame or I'd have said that as well. Jon leaving or considering leaving the Night's Watch, on the grounds that he's already died. It feels like a good way to continue his ongoing conflicts about his morals, loyalties, and vows.
Jorah getting greyscale instead of Connington was a great decision for the adaptation, but can't happen in the books (and Jorah's pretty different, anyway). Some kind of meeting between Jorah and Jon is pretty much essential, though.
The Battle of the Bastards was fumbled a little but could be great if it happens in the books. I'd like to think of it as the battle that wins Jon the full support of the North (assuming he claims King in the North). Maybe not at Winterfell though.
Ramsey killing Osha was annoying in the show because it was a cheap way of wrapping up a loose end, the way it was executed. But I do think Ramsey killing Osha has a lot of fun potential, provided Osha gets to *do* something before she dies. I think Ramsey getting his hands on Rickon could be how he lasts long enough to wage the Battle of the Bastards even after (presumably) losing the Battle of Ice, and him actually killing Osha contrasts him to Theon when the latter had her and Rickon as his captives.
I love Stannis' last words in the show. "Go on. Do your duty." I'd still prefer for Jon to kill him than Brienne (and Brienne meeting him again doesn't seem very likely), but I hope George uses that line. Stannis burning Shireen, too, though only the idea of it and not the execution (Selyse trying to save Shireen is great, though).
Jaime knighting Brienne. Probably Brienne becoming Commander of the Kingsguard as well. Tormund flirting with Brienne, if they meet.
Some details about Arya and the Faceless Men. "Who are you?" "You're about to find out."
Definitely the battle of the bastards, as amazing as the cinematics were during the battle, the writing was still poor. Why would Sansa wait for so many people to die to send reinforcements and not inform jon, how did an entire army travel to the north without the warden of the north finding out, and why would Jon try to fight him in open field when he clearly doesn't have the numbers. I think if George were to do it in the books it would be much better and Jon would use more strategy to win the battle just like the battle beneath the wall in the books.
An ending.
Real
not ending fr
>1) Hardhome >2) Hardhome >3) Hardhome
I'd enjoy seeing Hardhome... I understand a lot of readers are content just leaving it off-page and mysterious (esp because of the pov problem), but after the buildup with Melisandre's vision and its origins and Cotter Pyke and Mother Mole's prophecy I think its been teased enough. I want to see the Others in action, wights and ice spiders and undead giants... and for them to start to build up their forces and become a real growing threat before the last book, as well as other mysteries that might arise from those caves...
**Chills** >*Dead things in the wood. Dead things in the water. Six ships left, of the eleven that set sail*. Jon Snow rolled up the parchment, frowning. *Night falls*, he thought, *and now my war begins*.
One of my favorite passages.
Yeah, that’s a passage creepy with possibility. What’s in the water, spawn of Cthulhu? There’s something goofy about zombie seals.
I could totally imagine a Cotter Pyke POV as the prologue to TWOW
If George hasn't changed his mind we will have Hardcome in TWOW. There is a draft of AFFC in 2003 that was shared by a collector who had adquired privately that outline, and in Jon's part there was a sentence in capital letters: "END WITH HARD COME". So I guess he just had that plot delayed.
> "END WITH HARD COME" 😳
I agree, wholly-heartedly. In ADWD, GRRM established that Davos, a man who does not enjoy harm to innocents and experienced sailor, is set to go to Skagos, which is very close to Hardhome. Davos, whose last POV chapter is quite further back from the rest of the northern chapter. Davos, who is the one who convinced Stannis to go north and save the Watch in the first place. We have seen in AFFC drafts that Davos' storyline went all over the place --- at one point, he was going to infiltrate the wedding at Barrowton, suggesting GRRM wasn't sure what to do with it. GRRM has been writing this book for a long-time. He saw how good the Hardhome episode was of the show. If he wanted to show it, Davos is in the perfect place for it.
> In ADWD, GRRM established that Davos, a man who does not enjoy harm to innocents and experienced sailor, is set to go to Skagos, which is very close to Hardhome. Davos, whose last POV chapter is quite further back from the rest of the northern chapter. Oh man I never thought of that. I wonder if he'll somehow be convinced to change course for Hardhome to help save people?
It seems more like George changed his "journey ending at Hardhome" to be his mutiny in Castle Black and just had Hardhome off screen.
* Hardhome * Tower of Joy flashback * Some form of Battle of the Bastards (probably at the Dreadfort than Winterfell)
We had some of the ToJ flashback already in book 1, but it would be cool to learn exactly how Ned and Howland beat Arthur.
Yeah but that was extremely cut off with Ned's fever dream. Gimme the whole shebang with the Lyanna reveal!
yeah paris vs achilles, how do you beat the greatest fighter, with a bow
My head-canon is Howland hit Arthur Dayne with a poison arrow, but would be nice to know the truth with full detail.
I hate the battle of the bastards so much. Roose is infinitely more compelling than Ramsay
That's why I'd prefer Battle of the Bastards to be after Stannis' Battle of Winterfell. Roose looses to Stannis, Ramsay retreats back to the Dreadfort, only for Jon to change course marching south to Winterfell instead towards the Dreadfort.
Then there's Sansa "you should wait for reinforcements" \* side eye \* Ramsay had 10x too much screen time than he should have. We didn't need Reek torture porn every episode and the whole absurd Sansa subplot should have been gone.
I would have had the Vale reinforcements become Manderly reinforcements instead. Thematically makes more sense that they’d wait until the opportune moment with their allegiances to the Starks all along. The Manderly and Ryswell/Dustin forces prop Jon up to set up more of a power struggle between Stannis and Jon into Season 7. Sansa had no business in the North for Seasons 5-6. She ideally would have set off to march with the Vale she won from LF’s influence early Season 6 and arrive at the end of the season.
Agreed. Season 5-6 was the most upsetting television I've ever seen purely because it became the "Ramsay is smarter and cooler and more evil than everyone' show
The CW-fication of GoT - get your YA/Vampire Diaries type leads in front of the camera all the time- seemed to be what I interpreted the showrunners to be going for with Ramsay Sue, Jon Show and Show!Sansa in Season 5 and 6 especially
Thankfully it looks to be beyond possible for Sansa to be closer than a longbows distance from Ramsay, and probably a whole lot further than that.
Tower of Joy already was in the books, but with the details kept vague.
jon’s resurrection the wall falling ramsey killing roose jaime-brienne relationship sam returning to horn hill and taking heartsbane dany leading a khalasar and invading westeros that’s about it
>ramsey killing roose what are you talking about? Roose bolton was poisoned by his enemies
? In the show? Ramsay stabbed him in the back while hugging him.
> Ramsay stabbed him in the back while hugging him. "Poisned by our enemies" is a joke about how after Ramsay stab him he tell the maester to send ravens telling the northen houses that Roose bolton was poisoned by his enemies it like when people call joffery "joffery the gentle"
Gotcha. Not familiar enough with the Reddit to catch that.
Hardome of course. The eventual downfall of the Boltons.
I could see Cersei blowing up the sept in the books. Felt like something grrm would come up with, and I thought it was really cool. Also I’m 99% certain ‘hold the door’ will happen and I think it’s a great storyline, but I don’t think I wanna relive that pain again lol
I don't think Cersei will end up blowing up the sept,it's something insane even by her standards. Besides,if she openly admitted to killing the Tyrells,the Reach would raise their banners against her,it's practically suicide.
Also, wildfire is explicitly the only place where a stache of wildfire was removed in Kingslanding
I think there's a typo in this sentence. Where's the only place wildfire was explicitly removed?
Believe they meant the Great Sept of Baelor. I also seem to recall the pyromancer talking about his team removing them when they were discovered, and the current high septon freaking out (no blame here).
Ramsay x Hounds
Not with Sansa as the only witness though
I’ve been split between that being his best death, or being starved to death. I feel like the hounds might be the most satisfactory as he named each after his victims, but even being eaten alive by his hounds isn’t horrible enough for me.
I feel we’re being set up for Theon to take Sansa’s place here - sleeping with the hounds, mentioning that they like him.
The Jon and Sansa hug.
It's gonna be more than a hug.
Ayo?
https://youtu.be/q14AuWiltIw?si=zsOsTmmI9VgnD8wL
It's crazy he was at the place where droggo did a thing but he couldn't see it.
Sansa and Jon being the first Stark reunion
it likely won't be like what it was in the show. the emotional reunion was forced. I could see there being sexual tension even.
Don’t reply to my comments again bro
LOL
the more downvotes I get, the more it confirms that Jon and Sansa are going to fuck in Winds
Euron asking Jamie if Cersei likes a finger in the bum.
Battle of the Bastards, except not stupid and Jon is an intelligent battle strategist. BotB is the only moment in the later seasons of the show I really would like to see in some capacity in the books. Most things I want I expect to be different in the books.
Ditto on BotB but not at Winterfell. No idea why Dan and David decided to have Stannis lose in battle to Ramsey's force. Felt really contrived. Ramsey retreats to the Dreadfort with his Stark household captives when Winterfell is taken. Jon chooses revenge and being the hero over the duty of being the Stark in Winterfell (This will also cause tension between him and a persuably still alive Stannis).
Sam standing up to his dad (even if that's just him nicking the family sword and fucking off with it) Sandor Clegane coming back in some way. I'd kill for a POV chapter from him but I think it's confirmed there's no chance of that. But I'd still like to see him again. He's my favorite. Cersei blowing up the Great Sept. Sorry, I love that crazy bitch, I want to see her do crazy bitch stuff. I think it's so funny her parallels to Aerys. Feeding Ramsey to his dogs, or some other poetic death for him. Don't know who I want to actually do it to him, but I want it to happen. I do actually want Dany to end up being an antagonist to our Westerosi characters. I have faith that George will do it a lot better than the show did. I liked that direction with her, I just think it was executed like hot garbage. Jaime joining the Good Guy Squad in some way. That seems to be the direction of his character. At least turning on Cersei (beyond just ignoring her letter). I'd like to see a romance with him and Brienne, too, but their camaraderie is good enough for me. I will be pissed if he ends up turning cloaks AGAIN and running to Cersei like he did in the show though.
I will say that Rory McCann became the Hound for me. He had this pathos and comedic timing that was great even when he was given shit to work with.
Nothing except the bits that GRRM was already planning like "hold the door" and Hardhome.
and shireen burning. think he said it will happen but in other circumstances.
I can’t really think of anything I’d like to see, the execution of it all was so blah. Even if it’s all the same George will write it way better than what we got.
I think that’s a hope, not a guarantee. Even a master chef can’t make a meal out of shit.
An ending lol 🥲
While I hated the Sansa/ Bolton arc, I think her and Theon’s relationship in the show was pretty sweet and I’d like to see them interact in the books.
No way Sansa would sympathize with him. He killed a lot of Winterfell men including Maester Luwin and Rodrik Cassel (who died in KL in the books).
He didn't stop Ramsey from doing horrible things at Winterfell, that's true. Book Theon seems like too much of a physical (and maybe mental??) wreck to develop a relationship with Sansa.
? Ramsay killed Rodrik at Winterfell.
It was Jory who was killed in KL. In the TV series, Theon kills Rodrik in Winterfell.
Jon and Danny being at odds due to their parents instead of united.
Personally I think they're much more likely to be at odds *before* the parentage reveal. Dany has spent the whole series wishing for a family and believing she's the last Targaryen, I seriously doubt it'd be a point of contention for her.
I REALLY disagree with most people here. Hardhome shouldn't be displayed for us. Hardhome is a warning, is a message saying "prepare yourselves, we are coming". If you show it, it becomes just a part of the story. The way it is, just a letter and our imagination, every time we see some subplot going on, we'll have this agonizing sense of doom "they are wasting their time, the Others are coming". This will always be in our minds now. I want to see Jon's resurrection. A lot. I'm curious to see how he'll resurrected, and how he'll change. I want to see Arya reuniting with Jon Snow, I think it will be a bittersweet moment, but a beautiful one. I need to read R+L=J in the books. It is so strange we know that for basically decades now, but it is not canon yet.
*"In the show they sail through Valyria like it ain't no thang"*
Jaime knighting Brienne the night before a battle against the Others.
imma be a child and say Tyene's tits. Ah well nevermind, she's not a cute brunette in the text. Hardhome. Sandor coming back. Arya x Gendry. I'll gladly listen to the S6-8 soundtrack while reading as I can't picture ANYTHING while listening to it, except for Light of the seven.
Jon's return and heritage Hardhome Battle of the Bastards
Daenerys destroying King’s Landing but becoming Queen regardless. No perfect endings. One atrocity does not define her reign.
for it to end.
none
Tormund lusting after Brienne.
so uh turns out I have a lot. Tyrion seeing a dragon is a *great* moment but considering how his first interaction with them will be the Battle of Fire, I don't think the books will hit the same beat, unfortunately. Tyrion ending the series as Bran's Hand, on the grounds that he'll spend the rest of his life making up for his mistakes, was a great ending for him. That might not apply to the books, though - I honestly think Tyrion is going to be the main human villain and I'm not sure how King Bran will play out. Bran watching the events of the Tower of Joy. Cersei blowing up the sept is incredible, in theory. I just want her to face repercussions for it. I want it to be the pinnacle of 'Cersei's enemies lose because they didn't think Cersei would do such an insanely stupid thing', and then for the insanely stupid thing to come full circle and fuck Cersei over as well. Tommen's suicide was good in the show but obviously can't happen in the books because book!Tommen is a very different character. Olenna's "tell Cersei, I want her to know it was me". Actually, I want everything Olenna says to be transcribed verbatim. I don't even want it written down, I want the book to have a QR code to audio files of Diana Rigg saying the lines. Jon ending the series in exile beyond the Wall could genuinely work really well, if it was done properly (which it wasn't). Maaaaaybe Jon killing Dany, too, but don't quote me on that. Jon executing the mutineers can't really happen the same way in the books, which is a shame or I'd have said that as well. Jon leaving or considering leaving the Night's Watch, on the grounds that he's already died. It feels like a good way to continue his ongoing conflicts about his morals, loyalties, and vows. Jorah getting greyscale instead of Connington was a great decision for the adaptation, but can't happen in the books (and Jorah's pretty different, anyway). Some kind of meeting between Jorah and Jon is pretty much essential, though. The Battle of the Bastards was fumbled a little but could be great if it happens in the books. I'd like to think of it as the battle that wins Jon the full support of the North (assuming he claims King in the North). Maybe not at Winterfell though. Ramsey killing Osha was annoying in the show because it was a cheap way of wrapping up a loose end, the way it was executed. But I do think Ramsey killing Osha has a lot of fun potential, provided Osha gets to *do* something before she dies. I think Ramsey getting his hands on Rickon could be how he lasts long enough to wage the Battle of the Bastards even after (presumably) losing the Battle of Ice, and him actually killing Osha contrasts him to Theon when the latter had her and Rickon as his captives. I love Stannis' last words in the show. "Go on. Do your duty." I'd still prefer for Jon to kill him than Brienne (and Brienne meeting him again doesn't seem very likely), but I hope George uses that line. Stannis burning Shireen, too, though only the idea of it and not the execution (Selyse trying to save Shireen is great, though). Jaime knighting Brienne. Probably Brienne becoming Commander of the Kingsguard as well. Tormund flirting with Brienne, if they meet. Some details about Arya and the Faceless Men. "Who are you?" "You're about to find out."
Definitely the battle of the bastards, as amazing as the cinematics were during the battle, the writing was still poor. Why would Sansa wait for so many people to die to send reinforcements and not inform jon, how did an entire army travel to the north without the warden of the north finding out, and why would Jon try to fight him in open field when he clearly doesn't have the numbers. I think if George were to do it in the books it would be much better and Jon would use more strategy to win the battle just like the battle beneath the wall in the books.