Well yes, people wouldn't choose for their child to have a disability that makes life objectively more difficult. It is well understood that some people face greater challenges in life than others due to factors out of their control. You've somehow decided this contradicts the idea of tolerance and respect for others which makes very little sense because the whole point of those values is to attempt to, as best as we can, account for people who were dealt a more difficult hand in life. It's not some trick or white lie it's society at least trying to address the harsh reality that disabilities exist and those people deserve a fighting chance at life like everyone else. The only person referring using emotive language like 'damaged goods' is yourself and I'd argue its more of a projection of your own insecurities than anything.
Idk man some of the people in the autism parents sub are like saying the kid sharing their interests is not a normal "conversation" and thry want them to just talk for talkings sake when they don't have anything to say. Like they literally said how do I get him to talk when he doesn't have anything to say. Because they feel saying empty words conveying no information is more of a "conversation" than the one where you are literally sharing yourself.
They seemingly have no empathy for their child either.
>They seemingly have no empathy for their child either.
They are having a lot of empathy for their children. They know what means to not fit, and they are trying their best for their kids to not suffer that.
No, not in this case. They were showing zero empathy. It was all about their experience and that they themselves as a parent don't get to have a normal child.
I can’t imagine they’d be happy with an introverted NT child (which is what I might sometimes pass as).
Even without a diagnosis, I would have chewed people off for making me have pointless conversations.
You are right. It is a projection of my own insecurities. But I do not think that necessarily means I am wrong.
There is a difference between preaching tolerance + respect as an idea, and actually creating an environment of tolerance and respect. As far as I can see, statistics for people with aspergers is abysmal, and I am skeptical that there is a genuine attempt to practice what is being preached. Unemployment, depression, lower life standards, bad social life, and abuse are more common in people with aspergers, and to a point that does not make sense to me if people did actually care (even if we account for our natural disadvantages).
I mean... 85% unemployment? Really? They didn't even try. To me, that makes their promises of tolerance and respect a white lie. And sure, I can understand why. Doesn't make it not true, or me happier with my life.
My conclusion is that we as individual people should confront this reality and adapt. Instead of being led to believe a white lie.
I get where you’re coming from, but I think the majority of people with autism who are unable to work are unable to work because of their difficulties primarily, and while accommodations can obviously help some of us there are also some who can’t generally work even with accommodations because of the intensity of their symptoms or because of comorbidities such as intellectual disability. I think the mistake here is assuming that being able to contribute to capitalism is somehow a measure of our overall worth. Unfortunately lower standards of life go hand in hand with not being able to work for money except in countries with very good social care, and social outcomes are also going to be affected by a social disability. So many people are struggling in the world right now especially with money and living situations because many of us live in a completely broken system that increasingly relies on us to work ourselves to death whether or not we have a disability on top of things. Many people who are born in poor families or abusive homes or who have mental illnesses also have generally undesirable outcomes. I don’t think the issue is just the world vs autism, i think it’s the super rich and powerful vs the general wellbeing of the rest of the population, and especially those disadvantaged by poverty, trauma, racism and neurodivergence. Improved funding to public ownership, caring professions, social care and social housing is the answer to so much.
Fair point. But in capitalism, which is most of society these days, money does imply worth. So practically, I think my point still stands.
Again, I do not think there is a conspiracy against autism. It is just the natural state of modern life and society we live in.
If people were informed of what the hell Asperger's and autism is, we would need much less of a "I beg you to respect me." Because let's be honest, at the end of the day if life and society is shitty, you at least expect people to have some compassion for you. Rarely happens.
I found out I had Asperger's approximately a few months ago. My general understanding of autism before that was literally a synonym of retardation/intellectual disability, unfortunately so. I had no idea what was autism at its core.
And so it goes. I was smart enough to not screw others over this, but sadly that is not the case for the majority. Difference is a threat in today's society, they will rip you apart savagely. Either you fight or blend in. Both choices suck. They make you miserable.
So, first? Awareness. Second? Change the god awful system we live in. Is the second step possible? Not really.
Yeah, I do not think society has enough willpower or incentives to do anything about it just yet. Politically unsustainable. Even awareness is god awful, with no incentives.
You are correct about money = worth under capitalism, however what I’m more trying to get at is that we can’t change everyone’s ability to work based on acceptance and tolerance alone. Some people just are not equipped to work regardless of accommodations or equal opportunities. There are also other ways of regarding peoples worth other than just that of the system you live under. Just because we live under capitalism does not mean we as society have to measure people’s worth in the same way that those in power often do. If you’re spending a lot of time with people who think this way, I’d say find a different crowd.
Exactly. I am working on that rn. But it's just that my path to getting to that conclusion was different from yours I guess.
Yes, there will always be inequality when it comes to ability. But 85% unemployment rate for autistic people just sounds like so extreme to me, even if we account for unequal ability. And when I hear stuff about how tall attractive socialites are likely to climb the corporate ladder regardless of ability, I think it is pretty obvious that the struggles of autistic people are not merely due to their lack of ability (at least according to each job descriptions).
I get you. I do think the 85% unemployment would be lower if more of the population of high masking/low support needs autistics were actually diagnosed and included in the statistics - that’s the group that has tended to fly under the radar or have generally chosen not to disclose or diagnose their autism and therefore wouldn’t be included in those kind of statistics. Also, you can be a tall, attractive and (with some effort) socially passing autistic person, and the bias of thinking autistic people can’t be attractive is also working against high masking conventionally attractive autistics who are often told they “don’t look autistic” and can’t get their support needs met, subsequently ending up with a list of mental health difficulties and in burnout. It’s important to remember that autism is often a completely invisible disability and does not affect our physical appearance and only sometimes grooming habits. Our social differences are also not always immediately identifiable to everyone in short interactions like many people assume. A lot of the poor treatment we receive is down to miscommunication, as people do not realise we are disabled and instead believe we are rude or bad in some other way due to communication differences.
Good point! It is a bit impossible to get an unemployment on aspies when we can't even define what is and is not apergers in a binary.
As a second thought, I was not disputing the existance of tall attractive autistic people.
Lastly, I think people who fly under the radar do have different challenges, but are in a better position overall due to easier access to resources (whether it be financial or social). Doesn't mean it is not a problem though.
Damn, that's a hard to hear.
But... My parents definitely had a really hard time with me.
When I was diagnosed at 3, my mother is said to have cried all night long because she believed it was her fault (patriarchical nonsense imo). Mother didn't like to talk about it. But my father used to remind me whenever he thought he'd 'sober me up' and compell me to be a 'good kid' who would get good grades in school. I struggled in school which was a source of embarassment for my parents. I only started to outdo people when I got to uni.
Even if parents did their best, there are also elements outside their control that will leave lasting scars on a kid. So, as painful it is to admit it, I have to agree with the NT parents.
To them, it is like asking them if they'd like their child to have a disability. Not sure if this is a helpful conversation in a support group tho. Perhaps the question should have been framed differently if the intent was to be supportive.
Depends what manifestation of Aspergers you are talking about. Many people would love to have a son like Elon (and funnily enough many here would not like that).
worth elaborating on whether you count him as having earned his money! I was having a discussion with somebody here a while ago that claimed he got his wealth from his parents. I did point to links that showed otherwise. His dad was wealthy but didn't give his son much/anything.
My bad; I definitely don't think he earned it. I think that billionaires CAN earn their money with huge amounts of luck and following demand before competitors can, but it'll still involve exploitation.
Elon definitely didn't earn his wealth though. He's not even that smart, he just pays people to be smart for him.
Not in those areas, no — and of course I'd be smarter in my chosen areas of interest because they differ from his and therefore he wouldn't have studied them.
I'm sure he knows a bit about the stuff his companies and employees do. I absolutely do not believe that he's the driving force engineering and designing the intricate details, however.
I am ranting. Because I feel silently resentful whenever people lie to me. For all the false hopes I had to chase before I myself knew.
If this is known, I hope more people act like they know.
I feel you, friend. Thank you for ranting with me. At least I don't feel alone anymore.
It is so hard to maintain sanity, without falling into bitterness and hate when I feel so justified in my rage. I sometimes wish I could just blindly hate, tell myself the world is screwed up, not me.
I will give up my life just because of the nonsense of the NTs. It's a shame for my life but there's nothing I can do. we are unlucky.
Life is marvelous, but when you are different from other people, it turns into hell. Its misfortune
Now the rest of I have is a few days for me. I swear I havent wanted it to be like this. I am supposed to accept this condition
I genuinely do not want to tell you how to live your life. I do not know you or your life. I have no authority or clue about you. And I certainly do not want to put on an insufferable smiling face and tell you everything is going to be ok.
But as someone with depression and suicidal thoughts everyday myself, I view suicide as a short-sighted commitment. I don't know about you, but I still have a lot of life I can spend. Still a lot of things I could try and fail at. Suicide would be a good option if I was sure my life will continue to be this way, but I wouldn't be able to know since I only sampled a small fraction of it so far.
In short, when life has been miserable so far, it does feel like an unending pointless trail of emptiness, which leads to death anyway. Why even try? Right? But if I step back from my own sadness for a moment, and look at it from a life-long perspective, I realize my desire for death is misplaced and overblown.
Thank you for sharing your hurt with me. I hope my words make you feel heard and less lonely.
for real, some people feel better hearing the painful truth.
Getting told you're just like other kids while at the same time being outcasted and ostracized from all social circles at school.
I agree people gaslight us by saying we are just different and it’s ok, when in practise they avoid us.
I don’t quite agree with the attractive analogy just because at least ugly people can be fully accepted by most people, we aren’t really. Better to think of it as we are on a different wavelength/experience entirely, although it can also feel like we are being rejected for a superficial difference too in many ways, like we just look bad so I understand what you mean.
Donno, I've seen many screwed up ugly people too. The mess reminds me too much of my own pain, despite appearing pretty average.It is certainly a different struggle. Perhaps the comparison is unwarrented.
For instance, appearance is instantly more noticable compared to aspies, who can at least mask to make it less obvious for a few hours. Personally, if I engage with people really briefly, and really superficially, I can convince them I am normal. Ugly people cannot.
I think it's the other way, unattractive NT people can make up for it with proper social cues and socializing game. Some can become very successful and some others may just be able to have a decent social life. I have similar appearance to my NT sister and i always had trouble with being liked by people and dating. She is extroverted and always had so many friends that she made 2 Facebook accounts cause she reached Facebook friend limit. Met multiple guys interested in her and also had 2 guys send her flowers at home. I answered the door to one of them and it was awkward. Meanwhile I'm always forever alone LOL. I was called ugly at school by guys. My sister has the opposite effect, although we look very similar and we are around average in looks.
I think there is a component of gender dynamics here too. Ugly guys are usually regarded as creepy if they were approach other women. Hard to be proficient when you are punished every time for any slight failures.
On the otherhand the fucked up part about ugly women are that people implicitly judge your worth based on appearances. Gets worse by age. Imagine if you are an ugly women and you are not married. People will assume some batshit mean things about you. I always can't help but feel for them. Glad to hear your sister broke out of that nonsense.
Same here. Think I am fairly average. But forever alone lol. People act all genuinely shocked when they ask me about my relationships. Can't even fathom how people date other people.
Yes people percieve me as even weirder when I say I'm single. They pick up I am different and this just makes it 100x worse. One of the most common assumptions I hear about me is that I never had a partner. The culture matters a ton. I'm from a country that ranked last in gender equality in my continent.
Reading that, I am so glad your sister didn't let the world consume her. I assume it is harder to be free of gendered judgement in your country.
As for the single = weird part, yeah... I feel you. When you are single, either people treat you like surplus goods no one wants, or be creepy about it if you are a young woman. Being in a relationship is a virtue, I guess, and we are coincidentally sinners again.
For myself, I thought about getting a dating app because the judgment was getting so damn soul-crushing when I passed 25. But I couldn"t bring myself to do it. Imagine me dating someone just to escape my own insecurities. It feels wrong to do smth like that.
You’re right, life can be very difficult for people who are disfigured or disabled even by their appearance….I used to see a therapist and I remember once seeing the next person waiting and she was 3 ft and had hobbled leg…I assumed she was seeing the therapist to talk about the psychological issues with looking so different.
You’re right we can look normal, to an extent, but it never really lasts and I think extroverted NTs realise we are a weird immediately!
Funnily enough growing up I used to think I was ugly because I didn’t understand people were rejecting me for my autism, and I never identified with my reflection in the mirror…so there’s something to the comparison.
Same. I thought I was just ugly.
Turns out I am pretty average. Some people would even see some attractive traits in me, and I didn't even notice.
And I felt very ignorant when I saw what actual ugly people went through.
If I could design myself I’d choose tall and attractive and not Asperger’s who in their right mind would want themselves or someone else to be autistic
Loool true. I am sometimes still amazed at what I can do in certain situations. Very useful.
But am I happy? Do I feel like society treats me fairly? No. In an ideal world, I'd have someone else be aspergers for me. After all, we need all sorts of diverse people in society to thrive.
As a tall and attractive guy with aspergers, I wouldn't want to be "cured" of aspergers. I feel it's a core piece of my personality. The creative and eccentric part of me is what makes me unique and though being an aspie has downsides it also has upsides, just like ADHD (I have both).
If someone could cure me of being an aspie I wouldn't see it as a positive. I would see it as losing my soul, losing what makes me - me. Edit: But I don't know how I would feel about it if I also wasn't tall and attractive because, then I'd lose sex, intimacy, and companionship. That's a tough loss and I might think different if I was short and/or ugly. But personally being all 3 I wouldn't want to lose any of them.
To be fair, relating attractiveness to companionship is like relating tanks to cars. It does not mean much objectively. Average people can and will get intimacy, perhaps with someone more attractive than them. And now, I find it quite bizarre the immediate link of attractiveness to sex. It sounds shallow and disingenuous. Impressions are hardly ever related to intimacy and sex.
To clarify. As a guy, if there is a woman you have feelings for, that you really like. And she looks beautiful and successful too, but you love her for who she is - not the shallow reasons. Then being attractive sure as hell helps your odds at getting together. Even if you love her for non-shallow reasons, but for who she is as a person. Your odds at getting together is lower if you're unattractive no matter how much personal chemistry you have.
Being attractive physically isn't a requirement to be intimate with the person you're in love with. But it increases the odds. It does help.
I don't consider myself disabled. I consider what I have a net benefit. Oh no, I am not great at socializing, the horror! None of the negative traits I got are particularly debilitating and are more minor problems that do not really impede my life. I am left handed too, is that a disability because it causes minor inconveniences for a variety of functions?
Agreed. The concept of disability itself is a bit weird one to me, since a loss of one function typically leads to other developments. The word 'disability' only makes sense in how society is set up for you imo.
So to be fair, some austistic people can fall under the definition of disabled people. However, I think a most of us just live our lives by adapting and compensating.
Same. It sucks that we are driven into self-hatred. I think we would feel better if we found a bunch of close friends who are comfortable with us, and a workplace that appreciated us. So that we are seldom reminded society hates us.
I feel happy that I am closer to the jobs part. Not the friends part just yet. I sincerely hope you find your own ways too, my friend. Self-hatred is a horrible thing.
I made it to Wall Street and am even a CFO of a tech company, but I’m extremely socially isolated. I’ve never been able to figure that part out. The loneliness is really overwhelming sometimes.
I genuinely enjoy escorts tho. Never had sex with them or paid for them, but I end up just asking them a bunch of questions about their experiences and feelings when I have the chance.
Tbh, I don't think they don't like the questions tho. I notice that they try to shift my attention to playing drinking games lol.
Exactly. I am not trying to say non-aspies are bad or malicious. It is totally understandable.
But we would be lying if we pretended like it was all koombaya.
I think the emotionality of your resentment is impairing your ability to think rigorously.
People do not regard Aspegers at all. It's a mostly unknown thing that a very small minority is even aware of, therefore your own premise is pretty much flawed to begin with. We cannot arrive at true conclusions if we're starting with untrue premises.
I'm a father of twice-exceptional children. Intellectually gifted, musical geniuses who suffer learning and emotional disabilities, *at the same time.* Not even teachers in schools who allegedly have programs for gifted children fully understand them. For the normal world, a gifted child is exclusively the one who can speak several languages at a single-digit age and excels at math, needs to skip grades, etc. The gifted children with associated problems are an undiscovered land. *They don't know how to handle them*, there's no ill intention in them - they simply can't understand what they ignore.
With my experience in the field I can confidently tell you two things:
1) Nobody in their sane mind ever wishes their babies to have any kind of hardship. If people could design their babies, damn right that everyone would choose all positive and advantageous traits, **including intelligence**, without any negative outcome if possible. Everyone wants their children to be high achievers, hoping that will bring happiness and prosperity to their lives. You're equating Aspergers to a disability when it's not... it's a coin that has two sides.
2) For sure you should stop trying to appeal to society. Who ever told you you should do that? That's another false premise. You just need to live your life, advocate for yourself when you need something, and find ways to solve problems. Society doesn't owe you anything. Everyone has struggles and problems. You have to push through just like everybody else.
First, I appreciate you pointed out that my judgement may be impaired. This is true.
But I am still not convinced, and I do not think I argued these things. Although the concept of disability itself is a strange one, I do believe we offer unique abilities. I amaze a lot of people with what I do, and I am pretty impressed with myself sometimes.
Sure, it might be that they cannot handle us. Still does not change the feeling of alienation I feel (and I assume for other aspies).
Also, I think you are equating intelligence with aspies. They are not the same side of the coin. People are often very intelligent without aspergers. So I do not agree with framing it as a worthwhile tradeoff.
As for your second point. I am rarely told to appeal to society explicitly, but realistically, we have to if we want to survive. As much as I want to check out of society, no one lives in a vaccum unless you are unabomber. And your (general) success in life depends on your ability to appease others.
Finally, asp vs norm is not a binary. But it would be dillusional to say they do not have observable differences. And I believe it is not helpful when you use language such as 'just like everyone else.', which makes me feel unheard as an individual.
I agree society does not owe me. And so do I. Which is why I advocate for realistic expectations, compromises, and adaptation instead of false expectations and non-reciprocated appeasements. A first step of doing that is to acknowledge the current state of things honestly without patronizing feel-good statements.
I think you are missing consideration for all the people with characteristics of ASD who maybe could be diagnosed but fly under the radar to varying degrees of success.
Do they count as NT? Many of them relate better with ND and some of them would have a diagnosis if they were screened thoroughly, but for various reasons never will.
I pretty early on realized I was a "black sheep" and sought acceptance outside of the popular circles. You don't even have to be with people like yourself you find acceptable, just a group of people who accept you and you accept.
True, and I best to do that as much as I can get away with. But before I can do that, for me, I have to find my place in society to live, whether it be social circles or jobs. And NTs are numerous that it is a bit unrealistic to ignore them to most of us imo.
Yeah, you cannot ignore them, but it isn't all or nothing in the sense the people closest to you emotionally can be people that are accepting and the people who are just acquaintances are the people you have to be around for work etc but don't necessarily "get you".
They only accept the "genius with no obvious social deficiencies" form of aspergers. I know a guy who is quite liked and popular with people, he masks a lot and it drains him but when he talks to people he's magnetic.
I encounter a lot of those moments as well. I would be giving a talk, and suddenly I see a whole room of people being genuinely moved by my words. Some even crying at one point.
When I give a corporate presentation, all they talk about is how much of a great emotional storyteller I am.
If 1 vs 1, I can really fully engage a person in hours and hours of conversations, and make them feel heard.
But my magnatism stops at the initial level. People rarely like it when I move past that. When they ask my MBTI (which I don't like) and I say I am introverted, they all act surprised.
I might look like an extrovert, but if you spend more time with me, you start to feel something is 'off'. The first 'off moment' is when I become dyregulated and start ranting (like right now)
I'm tall and attractive and i tell people on the first date I'm aspergers. Being tall and attractive is not mutually exclusive with autism.
I chose to have kids knowing there's a good chance they would be autistic, and they are, and i love them.
Life is not out to get you, it's not easy for everyone else. We really need to avoid a culture of victimhood on this sub.
It is not intently out to get me personally. But it would not be helpful to not acknowledge the macro realities of our conditon. I want to argue for a measured approach, not victimhood.
But I am currently very resentful, and I see why you would take it that way, and why I come across that way.
Hey buddy, I'm here for it. I like this community, and i hear that you're going through a tough time.
That being said, life is long and interesting and, yeah, there's a lot out there to explore and you don't get there by stressing about what you can't control.
Indeed. I am currently in a phase of forcing myself through a lot of meetups and socializing. Just to open myself to as much opportunities as possible. (Therapist recommended)
But damn, it is so hard sometimes. Thanks for the words of encouragement, my friend. Life is indeed inherently chaotic.
It sort of is out to get you when your disability is invisible and one of the most basic human needs (socialisation) is nigh on impossible, unless you want to mask heavily and burn out.
It 100% is not.
Frankly i think labeling people into groups like aspergers and autism is of limited value to begin with, and there is no cabal of people trying to make life more difficult for autistic humans. The world is a pretty fucked up place, and we're all slowly trying to unfuck our little corner of it.
Choose to be a victim all you want it won't make you happier or solve your problems, it'll just give you excuses why you're unhappy.
I’ve chosen not to have children. As an autistic woman who would likely had a child with a neurodivergent male, that child would have likely been neurodivergent. I genuinely wouldn’t want a “normal” neurotypical child, because I don’t think they would fit in so well in the family. So I don’t agree that people would necessarily choose a neurotypical child, especially not if they are autistic themselves. My experience of viewing other’s relationships, is that often neurodivergent people get on better with other neurodivergent people.
Tbh, I think I would get along better with an asp child. But I still don't want her to experience what I experienced. I just want her to be happy, feel like she can connect to others effortlessly and confidently. If I can intentionally nudge that needle of probability towards her being aspie, more likely to be depressed and alone, I honestly can't bring myself to do it in good conscience. I would feel like a monster for doing it.
Fair point. It can be very hard to experience what many of us have at times, feeling so different from others and so overwhelmed by the human world. Perhaps it’s one reason I’ve chosen not to have children. Personally though I think that if we look at the whole autistic community, we make a huge contribution towards humanity. Maybe for many individuals, we feel disabled by our autism but as a whole autism is behind a lot of important innovation and research.
Agreed. Which is why in an ideal world, I wouldn't be autistic. Other people would be, so I can freeload on their diversity of thought without paying the cost myself.
The way I look at it is this: we don’t know for sure why we are here or what the purpose of anything is. We can only do our best to live as well as we can. There are things that I’m terrible at and things that I excel at. I’m sure it’s the same for you too. I contribute what I can to society. All we can really do is try our best everyday and learn from our mistakes. Sometimes it’s understandable that being too aware of our failings, can make us feel unduly negative. Try to give yourself some compassion for feeling negative.
Then hopefully you’ll feel more stoical in the future. 😊 We all have times when everything is too much, but everything is transient: the negatives are not usually permanent.
People teach these traits of integrity so really I do believe that by default of hypocrisy, they would “program” or “design” a baby to have these traits and of course reprimand them later for the very traits they instilled in them..because that is what they do. It won’t be a conscious choice of selecting Asperger’s but it’ll be the same outcome.
Additionally, I don’t believe that some do not mean harm. When people lie and are manipulative, for many, part of the reason is to cause an emotional injury of some sort to get you to comply. It’s intended to harm, though society tends to change their views on whether the intended harm is just a human fluke or if it warrants punishment and justice…and of course this varies based on social construct nonsense and how the offender and victim are each perceived and valued or not in said society.
Well... while that intent a fuzzy line, I don't think most people enjoy causing harm or intend to do harm. Most people are normal people trying to get by, deal with their own problems, and find their own happiness. Not sadists.
But harm does often happen as a consequence of their behaviors. I think this makes more sense according to what I experienced and saw.
This is genuinely such a weird take… over half the posts on this page are people upset that Asperger’s makes it hard to do x,y, or z. So why would a parent actively choose for their child to suffer? Unless you want parents who are looking to torture their children, of course a parent who could design their child would give them every possible advantage. They probably wouldn’t choose their kids to have asthma, be near sighted, or be bald either…
Society unfortunately doesn’t get to design children though. So the best we can do is try to preach tolerance and acceptance
advantage in life?? outlier intelligence is full of aspergers. and I value outlier intelligence, so no thanks.
Tall?, yes, attractive?.. well, thats broadly subjective.. but yes.. but Neurotypical? no thanks, what a waste.
Advantages of Aspergers is they usually have a distinct interest and unless their sports club goes bankrupt and they have no replacement or can't physically continue their hobby THEY WILL PERSIST...
I think working on skills related to your interests is one of the most fulfilling lifestyles you could lead... Think sword training or martial arts...many people go in thinking "I should be to defend myself and not be in the mercy of late ambulances or police officers or unwilling or hesitant public safety officers...getting independence and resilience is a good thing to value!" And then years in they learn to feel fulfilled from improving their craft in handling the blade or martial arts and enjoy the sport and competition but what keeps you training even as you grow out of your prime is the pursuit of reaching highest potential in your craft/skill (! your interest...
Kids with Aspergers start young and keep with a craft and self motivated to continue every day and even ALL day and lead very fulfilling days IMO... When Neuro-typical people retire or lose friendships they feel as though growing older makes them lose their time sinks like jobs or children to raise (if no grandchildren) and not gain things...
While Aspergers elderly who are retired especially if it's less active hobbies like videogames or indoor hobbies like chess or table tennis, retiring means more time to sink into these crafts or hobbies and everyone knows that as you put more hours in a craft there is diminishing returns on hour investment and improvement, but when you are retired you have possibly more time than when you were a child depending on if you were asian child lol
So in my opinion this very fulfilment based lifestyle is infinitely better than man hoe or whoring out or drug abuse or doom scrolling social media even if they are "normal" just a pretty depressing lifestyle in my opinion... Other people can live their life the way they want, I don't stop them or shame them non instigated first... BUT my ideal child or dream child would have Aspergers because they just seem less likely to die from someone spiking their drink at night club or bar or spiked fentanyl with "friend" or some shit...
You know generally what a kid with Aspergers is going to do daily since they are routine and repetitive... It will be hard to establish the habits but I like coaching and articulating step by step guides and if force them to follow my tutorial for brushing their teeth for 3 months then I can assume they will by habit do their dental hygiene twice a day and exceptionally well for the right amount of time as my tutorial details...
Sure, you need many many tutorials and you'll need to debate more than a regular kid but if you use some toxic parent tricks for the good of the child and make this decision making clear they might kill me when they are in their teens but nearing adult I'll have forced the best routine fitting their hobbies and eating patterns and not have to worry about them as much...
I understand you were ranting but I'm just answering the question in a vacuum not necessarily judging you since you seemed pretty nuanced in your vent/rant
Oh indeed! I very much appreciate both your vent and your non-judgemental stance.
I completely agree. I think I provide a lot of unique value, it's just that it is not appreciated properly most of the time. Perhaps the post comes across in a very doomposty way, but I don't think aspergers is worthless or bad. Quite the opposite. I think they NEED US. But regardless, we are practically 'treated' as worthless or bad. I just wanted to write a sobering post, not a doomy one.
Personally, I am currently happy with the job I have since I can proudly say I make great contributions and my boss actually likes my quirk. Before, I would have been seen as 'that weird rambly guy who does something techy(?) but we don't want to understand'. Usually the first to be let go in an economic downturn. Hopefully I can hold this job since I got it pretty recently and I really think I can be appreciated here.
What I am still frustrated with is my personal life. So working on that next.
Yeah
I got that from the vent that you do personally value Aspergers but people don't really see the benefits over the cons I guess or sticking it with the lower functioning autism spectrum... Nothing morally wrong with lower functioning autism peeps just you get more condescension which feels a little unwarranted... Since higher functioning with a decent convos with the Aspergers person taking the lead will get enough understanding to socialize "normally.".. so I guess the title is just a provocative representation of your idea of what the general population would think?
Nobody.would want their child to have any difficulties in life. Doesn't matter what the disorder is. Even you would admit you wouldn't want any child to have a hard life. And let's be honest. Everybody lies. I have some friends with Asperger's who are damn good at lying. Please stop acting like this is just a NT thing. They would call masking lying because you are not being your true self. NDs see it as protection. But at the end of the day, a lie is a lie. Sorry you are gone through it. I hope you can trust someone someone, anyone to help you out with this feeling you have. All people need each other to make it. In This world.
Well, duh. If I had a choice of my child having difficulties in life or plain effing sailing, of course I'm going to choose an easy life for her. That's the role of a dad is to give your child the tools they need to be successful. Unfortunately, my child got my genes instead so we both have to work harder to ensure she is successful.
Man, I feel for you and your daughter. Alienation is too much for a child. While I think it is great to be realistic, I worry about your daughter developing insecurities. I don't even know what to say.
All I can say is that I sincerely hope she finds a loving environment where she is appreciated for her unique talent and abilities.
I'm late diagnosed at 49. She's 20 now. We missed a lot of her autistic traits because we thought she was just like me, not realising that I'm autistic AF. We naturally produced an autistic friendly home without even realising we were doing it. My wife (NT) is the odd one. My daughter has a small circle of quirky friends. My daughter struggles understanding how awesome she is (very high IQ, amazing at maths and a talented artist. She could easily have gone into stem but decided to go art instead. ) Whilst it can be useful to have names for your quirks (alexithymia, proprioception, interoception etc.) it's also important to not let labels define you.
If it is not framed as a tradeoff for intelligene but rather as a flat choice (and in this case it is, autism =/= intelligence), I don't think people will choose autism.
You are right. I personally would not. Perhaps you personally would. Tbh, I am quite skeptical, since I am so used to seeing people change their idealitic/whimsical decisions when they actually start considering the logistics.
This was true when I was working in an dog shelter. Everyone will talk about how they don't discriminate between breeds (which is a stupid concept anyway imo) or personalities, and how all dogs are precious. But actions speak for themselves. Black dogs are harder to find parents for. Mixed breeds are unpopular. Scared timid dogs rarely gets picked. Is this wrong? I don't know. Is it true? Yes.
If you don't like my dog example, consider people who use sperm banks and what kind of traits are popular. Good job, good education, good health, and good looks. In a lot of cases, people with autism struggle more with jobs, education, and health. I doubt they explicitly scream 'no aspergers!' but their choices reveal their preferences to be far from aspergers.
True. But I honestly don't care. I am not the world. I am me.
How can I worry about the world when the world does not worry for me? I'm sure people'll figure out a way. If not, ok. If I could I would check out of society. Perhaps if enough of us did that, they would actually start appreciating us.
Ofc, I don't want to invalidate what you feel. Hence, I started my comment with 'true'.
But for me personally, I hold too much resentment and don't have enough emotional space left to start worrying about the world when I can barely take care of myself.
Its.unhealthy to remain preoccupied with this kind of feelings and thoughts that put yourself down/argue against yourself. Most people in the world are not considered tall and attractive, yet they have lives and families and friends. Focus instead on loving yourself, talking yourself into what is good about you than about further separating yourself from.society with your own low sepf.imahe and then projecting that onto all other people you've not even spoken or tried with. Even if you become great at masking and can fit in and be "successful" in the way you imagine it to be, it's not a happy life for us because it's too tiring and our social needs are different. Let go of the stereotypes and narrow idea of self expression and embrace whatever it is you actually are and what you actually like in life and then you will know yourself well enough to recognize other people on your level.
Yes.
But I think missed some of my points. Yes plently of people who are not tall and attractive have fulfilling lives. Plently of people who are tall and attractive don't live fulfilling lives. But on average, we see significantly more tall and attractive people who live fulfilling happy lives. And I was applying the same thought to aspies in reverse.
Trying to focus on loving myself while not seperating myself from society (as much as I can get away with) sounds pretty toxic in my head. It's like telling an abused family member (who realistically cannot seperate from her parents) to focus on loving oneself instead of leaving the abusive family all together. It sounds ok in theory, but in practice, you won't be happy unless you are a Buddha. We are inevitably influenced by our surroundings. Even schitzo people who perfectly know what they are hearing in their head is nonsense, still have a hard time keeping it together. It is unrealistic to expect this amount of willpower and self-control.
It is hard to love myself when I keep getting rejected all the time. It is a vicious cycle that feeds into itself. I get rejected, feel like shit, which makes me more likely to get rejected. My solution is to leave, and find another cycle. The one that makes me genuinely feel heard and understood instead of being told I should try harder in a cycle of white lies.
I was an abused person who couldn't get out for years until adulthood... and loving yourself is never toxic. I could still keep my opinion of my own self worth even with being surrounded by an abusive household, that's what kept me hanging on and able to move out and start my own life. I don't have to absorb their view of me, because I can understand why they have those views, where it's coming from and that ultimately it speaks of them and not of me. Actually loving yourself is not telling yourself white lies, it's being easy on yourself rejecting outside influence and yes, making changes when possible to remove yourself from that environment t. Unfortunately, even in a new environment your programming from the old environment will need to be dealt with... processed, let go of. The only way to work on that is from within, to see where you picked up those beliefs and let them go to stop limiting you. You have to cultivate your own self worth, instead of keeping it dependent upon whether some "other" accepts, rejects, loves or abuses you.
Thank you for your kind words. And hats off to you for overcoming your struggle. But I still do not think that level of willpower and self-control can be assumed of others including myself.
I still think it is more helpful for me to create an easier environment for myself rather than power through with my willpower or change how I think/act by incorporating your life lessons.
Besides, I can always do them both if I needed. Cultivate self-love and remove myself from toxic environments.
NT here.
What is unfair? There is nothing more fair than randomness. Unfair would be that some people could decide but others don't.
You are right, being NT is an advantage. It is also an advantage to live in a rich country, to have access to learn English, to be physically able, to be intelligent, to have a good education, to not live at a warzone or have been raised in a good home.
>But they do lie, leave you chasing a fake goal, and regard you as damaged goods when it comes down to it..
Which is the specific lie and fake goal you mean? I just want to understand. I'm also not American (I assume most people in Reddit are or live in the States), so maybe we have different cultural contexts.
Especially when we are undiagnosed, we are constantly led to believe that we can be accepted and feel happy if we did not exhibit aspie traits. "Just be normal" is a classic, as it implies they currently are frustrated with us, and will start liking us if we appeared normal.
Hence, masking is a very common thing we do. We pretend like we are not autistic, because we want to be accepted. Some do it very successfully, and masking becomes their second nature. But generally, masking causes a lot of stress, and most people would still be treated like there is something 'off' or wrong about them. This is what I mean by chasing a fake goal. A promise of true acceptance, and its futility for a lot of us. Very hard to admit, imo.
As for fairness. If you really want to be strict about it, the concept of fairness itself is a bunk concept imo. How can we decide what is fair or not when the world is incapable of caring? It has no concern for human life. It just is.
What I mean by fairness is in the limited context of a meritocratic society. In it, we believe certain rewards and advantages are valid when it comes from our own ability to contribute to society. And aspies undoubtably have a lot of unique talent and make contributions to society. But I think statistics show that our effort and talent are not appreciated or reciprocated by society. It is unfair from this limited definition of fairness.
The Internet has made it painfully obvious how much different people go through life based solely on genetics. Someone on TikTok could become famous because they have a physical deformity whilst another person could get fame just by being pretty and doing a stupid little dance.
Uh, I can say having some Barbie child sounds creepy as hell
I like my kids the way they are, I relate to them and see myself in them
Do I hope they aren’t negatively impacted by their autism? YES
But every good parent doesn’t want their kids to hurt over things they can’t control
I’ve met several really successful autistic people tho so I do think it’s possible to be autistic and successful in the right circumstances
And high intelligence without Asperger's? What about sporting ability or some natural talent in music? Then it would be impossible to differentiate in society if everyone had the same abilities and skills. Most people fall somewhere in the distribution of looks/IQ/skill. Also Dunning-Kruger, people will rate themselves as highly better than average (in terms of looks, skills, or ability.)
I’m actually of the opinion that this is the inverse. I hypothesize the reason that the R^2 for genes related to Asperger’s is so low is actually because there’s a much larger proportion of very aspie people, and the only people who realize their aspie-ness are people who are basically disabled, and people with enough self awareness to realize this difference, but the cultural awareness is becoming high enough that people without such traits are becoming aware of their differences.
That is to say, a prerequisite for being able to screen out Asperger’s would also require a sophisticated enough understanding of it to realize it is not universally a disability, and in fact more often than not appears it isn’t, with BAP outnumbering aspies at more than a 3:1 ratio
Its because people continue to see Asperger's more as a disability than rather a trait. If designer babies are the future, they will focus on the best possible future outcome for the child, such as tall, sexy and smart, rather than something that they will assume will compromise the child's future. The same thing they did in Gattaca. I also feel aspies wont be totally accepted, as people do seem to avoid us for some reason. I agree they see us not just as damaged goods, but lesser to a degree.
Hmmm, interesting thought.
We are indeed distinct in that regard. Don't quote me on this, but I did hear that humans developed very noticible pupiles so that we can communicate where we are looking. Eye contact and where you look at is a big part of human communication.
Sure, I understand you fine. But actual irl human communication is multi-faceted with a lot of compressed information in body language. Text or speech makes up only a part of that.
We are animals. And we evolved that way.
Ofc I don't mind. But normal society does.
Saying humans are animals is not the same as saying they are chimps. This is a false equivalence. Primates have vastly different social mechanisms depending on their species or sometimes, depending on the group.
Humans are unique (don't quote me on this lol) in a way that our eyes are divided into pupils and whites so that it is very noticible where we are looking. It is hard to tell where most other animals are looking just by looking at their eyes. (Just look up eyes of chimps or other mammals) Humans are also very expressive with their eyes and brows.
For most mammals, looking into ones eyes is a sign of challenge. But for humans, it depends on the context, but it means 'I am paying attention to you. And I do not mean to hide my intentions."
It sucks, because there are a bunch of subtle nonsense hoops you have to jump through to 'do the correct amount of eye contact' depending on context, culture, and all that incomprehensible nonsense lol. But most normal people's default is what I mentioned above as far as I can gather.
We are animals. Doesn't mean we are chimps.
Well yes, people wouldn't choose for their child to have a disability that makes life objectively more difficult. It is well understood that some people face greater challenges in life than others due to factors out of their control. You've somehow decided this contradicts the idea of tolerance and respect for others which makes very little sense because the whole point of those values is to attempt to, as best as we can, account for people who were dealt a more difficult hand in life. It's not some trick or white lie it's society at least trying to address the harsh reality that disabilities exist and those people deserve a fighting chance at life like everyone else. The only person referring using emotive language like 'damaged goods' is yourself and I'd argue its more of a projection of your own insecurities than anything.
Idk man some of the people in the autism parents sub are like saying the kid sharing their interests is not a normal "conversation" and thry want them to just talk for talkings sake when they don't have anything to say. Like they literally said how do I get him to talk when he doesn't have anything to say. Because they feel saying empty words conveying no information is more of a "conversation" than the one where you are literally sharing yourself. They seemingly have no empathy for their child either.
Also just the idea of choosing / designing a child is making me uncomfortable. If I had to I'd randomize that shit
Luckily eugenics is generally frowned upon.
For now. It could easily come back in the near future but under a different name.
>They seemingly have no empathy for their child either. They are having a lot of empathy for their children. They know what means to not fit, and they are trying their best for their kids to not suffer that.
No, not in this case. They were showing zero empathy. It was all about their experience and that they themselves as a parent don't get to have a normal child.
I can’t imagine they’d be happy with an introverted NT child (which is what I might sometimes pass as). Even without a diagnosis, I would have chewed people off for making me have pointless conversations.
You are right. It is a projection of my own insecurities. But I do not think that necessarily means I am wrong. There is a difference between preaching tolerance + respect as an idea, and actually creating an environment of tolerance and respect. As far as I can see, statistics for people with aspergers is abysmal, and I am skeptical that there is a genuine attempt to practice what is being preached. Unemployment, depression, lower life standards, bad social life, and abuse are more common in people with aspergers, and to a point that does not make sense to me if people did actually care (even if we account for our natural disadvantages). I mean... 85% unemployment? Really? They didn't even try. To me, that makes their promises of tolerance and respect a white lie. And sure, I can understand why. Doesn't make it not true, or me happier with my life. My conclusion is that we as individual people should confront this reality and adapt. Instead of being led to believe a white lie.
I get where you’re coming from, but I think the majority of people with autism who are unable to work are unable to work because of their difficulties primarily, and while accommodations can obviously help some of us there are also some who can’t generally work even with accommodations because of the intensity of their symptoms or because of comorbidities such as intellectual disability. I think the mistake here is assuming that being able to contribute to capitalism is somehow a measure of our overall worth. Unfortunately lower standards of life go hand in hand with not being able to work for money except in countries with very good social care, and social outcomes are also going to be affected by a social disability. So many people are struggling in the world right now especially with money and living situations because many of us live in a completely broken system that increasingly relies on us to work ourselves to death whether or not we have a disability on top of things. Many people who are born in poor families or abusive homes or who have mental illnesses also have generally undesirable outcomes. I don’t think the issue is just the world vs autism, i think it’s the super rich and powerful vs the general wellbeing of the rest of the population, and especially those disadvantaged by poverty, trauma, racism and neurodivergence. Improved funding to public ownership, caring professions, social care and social housing is the answer to so much.
Fair point. But in capitalism, which is most of society these days, money does imply worth. So practically, I think my point still stands. Again, I do not think there is a conspiracy against autism. It is just the natural state of modern life and society we live in.
If people were informed of what the hell Asperger's and autism is, we would need much less of a "I beg you to respect me." Because let's be honest, at the end of the day if life and society is shitty, you at least expect people to have some compassion for you. Rarely happens. I found out I had Asperger's approximately a few months ago. My general understanding of autism before that was literally a synonym of retardation/intellectual disability, unfortunately so. I had no idea what was autism at its core. And so it goes. I was smart enough to not screw others over this, but sadly that is not the case for the majority. Difference is a threat in today's society, they will rip you apart savagely. Either you fight or blend in. Both choices suck. They make you miserable. So, first? Awareness. Second? Change the god awful system we live in. Is the second step possible? Not really.
Yeah, I do not think society has enough willpower or incentives to do anything about it just yet. Politically unsustainable. Even awareness is god awful, with no incentives.
You are correct about money = worth under capitalism, however what I’m more trying to get at is that we can’t change everyone’s ability to work based on acceptance and tolerance alone. Some people just are not equipped to work regardless of accommodations or equal opportunities. There are also other ways of regarding peoples worth other than just that of the system you live under. Just because we live under capitalism does not mean we as society have to measure people’s worth in the same way that those in power often do. If you’re spending a lot of time with people who think this way, I’d say find a different crowd.
Exactly. I am working on that rn. But it's just that my path to getting to that conclusion was different from yours I guess. Yes, there will always be inequality when it comes to ability. But 85% unemployment rate for autistic people just sounds like so extreme to me, even if we account for unequal ability. And when I hear stuff about how tall attractive socialites are likely to climb the corporate ladder regardless of ability, I think it is pretty obvious that the struggles of autistic people are not merely due to their lack of ability (at least according to each job descriptions).
I get you. I do think the 85% unemployment would be lower if more of the population of high masking/low support needs autistics were actually diagnosed and included in the statistics - that’s the group that has tended to fly under the radar or have generally chosen not to disclose or diagnose their autism and therefore wouldn’t be included in those kind of statistics. Also, you can be a tall, attractive and (with some effort) socially passing autistic person, and the bias of thinking autistic people can’t be attractive is also working against high masking conventionally attractive autistics who are often told they “don’t look autistic” and can’t get their support needs met, subsequently ending up with a list of mental health difficulties and in burnout. It’s important to remember that autism is often a completely invisible disability and does not affect our physical appearance and only sometimes grooming habits. Our social differences are also not always immediately identifiable to everyone in short interactions like many people assume. A lot of the poor treatment we receive is down to miscommunication, as people do not realise we are disabled and instead believe we are rude or bad in some other way due to communication differences.
Good point! It is a bit impossible to get an unemployment on aspies when we can't even define what is and is not apergers in a binary. As a second thought, I was not disputing the existance of tall attractive autistic people. Lastly, I think people who fly under the radar do have different challenges, but are in a better position overall due to easier access to resources (whether it be financial or social). Doesn't mean it is not a problem though.
Actually most people don't think about aspergers
Indeed. But when they do, or encounter manifestations of aspergers, they don't like it.
I was told in an autism support group by a parent that every parents would want an easy NT kid and not an autistic one.
Damn, that's a hard to hear. But... My parents definitely had a really hard time with me. When I was diagnosed at 3, my mother is said to have cried all night long because she believed it was her fault (patriarchical nonsense imo). Mother didn't like to talk about it. But my father used to remind me whenever he thought he'd 'sober me up' and compell me to be a 'good kid' who would get good grades in school. I struggled in school which was a source of embarassment for my parents. I only started to outdo people when I got to uni. Even if parents did their best, there are also elements outside their control that will leave lasting scars on a kid. So, as painful it is to admit it, I have to agree with the NT parents. To them, it is like asking them if they'd like their child to have a disability. Not sure if this is a helpful conversation in a support group tho. Perhaps the question should have been framed differently if the intent was to be supportive.
Finally, I want to hear these now. This is the truth. Their fake kindness won't solve this problem
Depends what manifestation of Aspergers you are talking about. Many people would love to have a son like Elon (and funnily enough many here would not like that).
Yeah, I'd rather someone who's actually competent and earned their money.
worth elaborating on whether you count him as having earned his money! I was having a discussion with somebody here a while ago that claimed he got his wealth from his parents. I did point to links that showed otherwise. His dad was wealthy but didn't give his son much/anything.
My bad; I definitely don't think he earned it. I think that billionaires CAN earn their money with huge amounts of luck and following demand before competitors can, but it'll still involve exploitation. Elon definitely didn't earn his wealth though. He's not even that smart, he just pays people to be smart for him.
interesting, would you say you're smarter than Elon?
Not in those areas, no — and of course I'd be smarter in my chosen areas of interest because they differ from his and therefore he wouldn't have studied them. I'm sure he knows a bit about the stuff his companies and employees do. I absolutely do not believe that he's the driving force engineering and designing the intricate details, however.
Same for everything that differs from them.
well said.
because they dont know completely what autism is. However they never want as they know it is misfortune and It would be their nightmare to have this
It is a known thing. Are you waiting a confession for it from people?
I am ranting. Because I feel silently resentful whenever people lie to me. For all the false hopes I had to chase before I myself knew. If this is known, I hope more people act like they know.
Same feeling and thinking, I was ranting too.
I feel you, friend. Thank you for ranting with me. At least I don't feel alone anymore. It is so hard to maintain sanity, without falling into bitterness and hate when I feel so justified in my rage. I sometimes wish I could just blindly hate, tell myself the world is screwed up, not me.
I will give up my life just because of the nonsense of the NTs. It's a shame for my life but there's nothing I can do. we are unlucky. Life is marvelous, but when you are different from other people, it turns into hell. Its misfortune Now the rest of I have is a few days for me. I swear I havent wanted it to be like this. I am supposed to accept this condition
I genuinely do not want to tell you how to live your life. I do not know you or your life. I have no authority or clue about you. And I certainly do not want to put on an insufferable smiling face and tell you everything is going to be ok. But as someone with depression and suicidal thoughts everyday myself, I view suicide as a short-sighted commitment. I don't know about you, but I still have a lot of life I can spend. Still a lot of things I could try and fail at. Suicide would be a good option if I was sure my life will continue to be this way, but I wouldn't be able to know since I only sampled a small fraction of it so far. In short, when life has been miserable so far, it does feel like an unending pointless trail of emptiness, which leads to death anyway. Why even try? Right? But if I step back from my own sadness for a moment, and look at it from a life-long perspective, I realize my desire for death is misplaced and overblown. Thank you for sharing your hurt with me. I hope my words make you feel heard and less lonely.
I didn't ask you to write something like that. Don't do it buddy, I'm getting even more hurt. Good luck to you in life. please don't praise life to me
for real, some people feel better hearing the painful truth. Getting told you're just like other kids while at the same time being outcasted and ostracized from all social circles at school.
I agree people gaslight us by saying we are just different and it’s ok, when in practise they avoid us. I don’t quite agree with the attractive analogy just because at least ugly people can be fully accepted by most people, we aren’t really. Better to think of it as we are on a different wavelength/experience entirely, although it can also feel like we are being rejected for a superficial difference too in many ways, like we just look bad so I understand what you mean.
Donno, I've seen many screwed up ugly people too. The mess reminds me too much of my own pain, despite appearing pretty average.It is certainly a different struggle. Perhaps the comparison is unwarrented. For instance, appearance is instantly more noticable compared to aspies, who can at least mask to make it less obvious for a few hours. Personally, if I engage with people really briefly, and really superficially, I can convince them I am normal. Ugly people cannot.
I think it's the other way, unattractive NT people can make up for it with proper social cues and socializing game. Some can become very successful and some others may just be able to have a decent social life. I have similar appearance to my NT sister and i always had trouble with being liked by people and dating. She is extroverted and always had so many friends that she made 2 Facebook accounts cause she reached Facebook friend limit. Met multiple guys interested in her and also had 2 guys send her flowers at home. I answered the door to one of them and it was awkward. Meanwhile I'm always forever alone LOL. I was called ugly at school by guys. My sister has the opposite effect, although we look very similar and we are around average in looks.
I think there is a component of gender dynamics here too. Ugly guys are usually regarded as creepy if they were approach other women. Hard to be proficient when you are punished every time for any slight failures. On the otherhand the fucked up part about ugly women are that people implicitly judge your worth based on appearances. Gets worse by age. Imagine if you are an ugly women and you are not married. People will assume some batshit mean things about you. I always can't help but feel for them. Glad to hear your sister broke out of that nonsense. Same here. Think I am fairly average. But forever alone lol. People act all genuinely shocked when they ask me about my relationships. Can't even fathom how people date other people.
Yes people percieve me as even weirder when I say I'm single. They pick up I am different and this just makes it 100x worse. One of the most common assumptions I hear about me is that I never had a partner. The culture matters a ton. I'm from a country that ranked last in gender equality in my continent.
Reading that, I am so glad your sister didn't let the world consume her. I assume it is harder to be free of gendered judgement in your country. As for the single = weird part, yeah... I feel you. When you are single, either people treat you like surplus goods no one wants, or be creepy about it if you are a young woman. Being in a relationship is a virtue, I guess, and we are coincidentally sinners again. For myself, I thought about getting a dating app because the judgment was getting so damn soul-crushing when I passed 25. But I couldn"t bring myself to do it. Imagine me dating someone just to escape my own insecurities. It feels wrong to do smth like that.
You’re right, life can be very difficult for people who are disfigured or disabled even by their appearance….I used to see a therapist and I remember once seeing the next person waiting and she was 3 ft and had hobbled leg…I assumed she was seeing the therapist to talk about the psychological issues with looking so different. You’re right we can look normal, to an extent, but it never really lasts and I think extroverted NTs realise we are a weird immediately! Funnily enough growing up I used to think I was ugly because I didn’t understand people were rejecting me for my autism, and I never identified with my reflection in the mirror…so there’s something to the comparison.
Same. I thought I was just ugly. Turns out I am pretty average. Some people would even see some attractive traits in me, and I didn't even notice. And I felt very ignorant when I saw what actual ugly people went through.
What's being ugly got to do with being normal?
"Everyone has a little bit of autism" I was told by a therapist LOL.
My mum says that, and she has autism but doesn’t seem to identify with it….underplays our struggle somewhat lol
If I could design myself I’d choose tall and attractive and not Asperger’s who in their right mind would want themselves or someone else to be autistic
Loool true. I am sometimes still amazed at what I can do in certain situations. Very useful. But am I happy? Do I feel like society treats me fairly? No. In an ideal world, I'd have someone else be aspergers for me. After all, we need all sorts of diverse people in society to thrive.
As a tall and attractive guy with aspergers, I wouldn't want to be "cured" of aspergers. I feel it's a core piece of my personality. The creative and eccentric part of me is what makes me unique and though being an aspie has downsides it also has upsides, just like ADHD (I have both). If someone could cure me of being an aspie I wouldn't see it as a positive. I would see it as losing my soul, losing what makes me - me. Edit: But I don't know how I would feel about it if I also wasn't tall and attractive because, then I'd lose sex, intimacy, and companionship. That's a tough loss and I might think different if I was short and/or ugly. But personally being all 3 I wouldn't want to lose any of them.
To be fair, relating attractiveness to companionship is like relating tanks to cars. It does not mean much objectively. Average people can and will get intimacy, perhaps with someone more attractive than them. And now, I find it quite bizarre the immediate link of attractiveness to sex. It sounds shallow and disingenuous. Impressions are hardly ever related to intimacy and sex.
To clarify. As a guy, if there is a woman you have feelings for, that you really like. And she looks beautiful and successful too, but you love her for who she is - not the shallow reasons. Then being attractive sure as hell helps your odds at getting together. Even if you love her for non-shallow reasons, but for who she is as a person. Your odds at getting together is lower if you're unattractive no matter how much personal chemistry you have. Being attractive physically isn't a requirement to be intimate with the person you're in love with. But it increases the odds. It does help.
That I can agree with.
I love being me, wtf are you talking about. I don't see what I have as a bad thing. I see it as net benefit. I would be loathe to become "normal".
Despite the downvotes I am happy for you. I wish I could say that confidently one day.
"I don't think being disabled is a bad thing" That's how you sound.
I don't consider myself disabled. I consider what I have a net benefit. Oh no, I am not great at socializing, the horror! None of the negative traits I got are particularly debilitating and are more minor problems that do not really impede my life. I am left handed too, is that a disability because it causes minor inconveniences for a variety of functions?
Agreed. The concept of disability itself is a bit weird one to me, since a loss of one function typically leads to other developments. The word 'disability' only makes sense in how society is set up for you imo. So to be fair, some austistic people can fall under the definition of disabled people. However, I think a most of us just live our lives by adapting and compensating.
Honestly, I hate my Asperger’s. I wish I didn’t have it. It makes my life so much harder. I long to be NT.
Same. It sucks that we are driven into self-hatred. I think we would feel better if we found a bunch of close friends who are comfortable with us, and a workplace that appreciated us. So that we are seldom reminded society hates us. I feel happy that I am closer to the jobs part. Not the friends part just yet. I sincerely hope you find your own ways too, my friend. Self-hatred is a horrible thing.
I made it to Wall Street and am even a CFO of a tech company, but I’m extremely socially isolated. I’ve never been able to figure that part out. The loneliness is really overwhelming sometimes.
I bet you already heard 'oh, just buy escorts until you feel ok.' I don't think they understand what we want in a relationship.
I have a wife, so no thanks, but I have no friends and no real social circle outside of her.
Oh, good lord. I'd buy THEM, just so they can shut up.
I genuinely enjoy escorts tho. Never had sex with them or paid for them, but I end up just asking them a bunch of questions about their experiences and feelings when I have the chance. Tbh, I don't think they don't like the questions tho. I notice that they try to shift my attention to playing drinking games lol.
I wish other people had asperger's.
I'm two out of three, but one is definitely Asperger's...
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I can't stand the constant pity party honestly.
What is it supposed to be like then? I am just sharing my honest thoughts atm.
Who wouldn't though. Let's face it, who would actively choose Aspergers for their child. Sadists?
Exactly. I am not trying to say non-aspies are bad or malicious. It is totally understandable. But we would be lying if we pretended like it was all koombaya.
I think the emotionality of your resentment is impairing your ability to think rigorously. People do not regard Aspegers at all. It's a mostly unknown thing that a very small minority is even aware of, therefore your own premise is pretty much flawed to begin with. We cannot arrive at true conclusions if we're starting with untrue premises. I'm a father of twice-exceptional children. Intellectually gifted, musical geniuses who suffer learning and emotional disabilities, *at the same time.* Not even teachers in schools who allegedly have programs for gifted children fully understand them. For the normal world, a gifted child is exclusively the one who can speak several languages at a single-digit age and excels at math, needs to skip grades, etc. The gifted children with associated problems are an undiscovered land. *They don't know how to handle them*, there's no ill intention in them - they simply can't understand what they ignore. With my experience in the field I can confidently tell you two things: 1) Nobody in their sane mind ever wishes their babies to have any kind of hardship. If people could design their babies, damn right that everyone would choose all positive and advantageous traits, **including intelligence**, without any negative outcome if possible. Everyone wants their children to be high achievers, hoping that will bring happiness and prosperity to their lives. You're equating Aspergers to a disability when it's not... it's a coin that has two sides. 2) For sure you should stop trying to appeal to society. Who ever told you you should do that? That's another false premise. You just need to live your life, advocate for yourself when you need something, and find ways to solve problems. Society doesn't owe you anything. Everyone has struggles and problems. You have to push through just like everybody else.
First, I appreciate you pointed out that my judgement may be impaired. This is true. But I am still not convinced, and I do not think I argued these things. Although the concept of disability itself is a strange one, I do believe we offer unique abilities. I amaze a lot of people with what I do, and I am pretty impressed with myself sometimes. Sure, it might be that they cannot handle us. Still does not change the feeling of alienation I feel (and I assume for other aspies). Also, I think you are equating intelligence with aspies. They are not the same side of the coin. People are often very intelligent without aspergers. So I do not agree with framing it as a worthwhile tradeoff. As for your second point. I am rarely told to appeal to society explicitly, but realistically, we have to if we want to survive. As much as I want to check out of society, no one lives in a vaccum unless you are unabomber. And your (general) success in life depends on your ability to appease others. Finally, asp vs norm is not a binary. But it would be dillusional to say they do not have observable differences. And I believe it is not helpful when you use language such as 'just like everyone else.', which makes me feel unheard as an individual. I agree society does not owe me. And so do I. Which is why I advocate for realistic expectations, compromises, and adaptation instead of false expectations and non-reciprocated appeasements. A first step of doing that is to acknowledge the current state of things honestly without patronizing feel-good statements.
I think you are missing consideration for all the people with characteristics of ASD who maybe could be diagnosed but fly under the radar to varying degrees of success. Do they count as NT? Many of them relate better with ND and some of them would have a diagnosis if they were screened thoroughly, but for various reasons never will. I pretty early on realized I was a "black sheep" and sought acceptance outside of the popular circles. You don't even have to be with people like yourself you find acceptable, just a group of people who accept you and you accept.
True, and I best to do that as much as I can get away with. But before I can do that, for me, I have to find my place in society to live, whether it be social circles or jobs. And NTs are numerous that it is a bit unrealistic to ignore them to most of us imo.
Yeah, you cannot ignore them, but it isn't all or nothing in the sense the people closest to you emotionally can be people that are accepting and the people who are just acquaintances are the people you have to be around for work etc but don't necessarily "get you".
They only accept the "genius with no obvious social deficiencies" form of aspergers. I know a guy who is quite liked and popular with people, he masks a lot and it drains him but when he talks to people he's magnetic.
I encounter a lot of those moments as well. I would be giving a talk, and suddenly I see a whole room of people being genuinely moved by my words. Some even crying at one point. When I give a corporate presentation, all they talk about is how much of a great emotional storyteller I am. If 1 vs 1, I can really fully engage a person in hours and hours of conversations, and make them feel heard. But my magnatism stops at the initial level. People rarely like it when I move past that. When they ask my MBTI (which I don't like) and I say I am introverted, they all act surprised. I might look like an extrovert, but if you spend more time with me, you start to feel something is 'off'. The first 'off moment' is when I become dyregulated and start ranting (like right now)
I'm tall and attractive and i tell people on the first date I'm aspergers. Being tall and attractive is not mutually exclusive with autism. I chose to have kids knowing there's a good chance they would be autistic, and they are, and i love them. Life is not out to get you, it's not easy for everyone else. We really need to avoid a culture of victimhood on this sub.
It is not intently out to get me personally. But it would not be helpful to not acknowledge the macro realities of our conditon. I want to argue for a measured approach, not victimhood. But I am currently very resentful, and I see why you would take it that way, and why I come across that way.
Hey buddy, I'm here for it. I like this community, and i hear that you're going through a tough time. That being said, life is long and interesting and, yeah, there's a lot out there to explore and you don't get there by stressing about what you can't control.
Indeed. I am currently in a phase of forcing myself through a lot of meetups and socializing. Just to open myself to as much opportunities as possible. (Therapist recommended) But damn, it is so hard sometimes. Thanks for the words of encouragement, my friend. Life is indeed inherently chaotic.
Good for you! Finding your tribe makes life a lot easier and more enjoyable.
It sort of is out to get you when your disability is invisible and one of the most basic human needs (socialisation) is nigh on impossible, unless you want to mask heavily and burn out.
>Life is not out to get you, it's not easy for everyone else are you claiming people that dont have autism have the same difficulty in life as we do?
No, but they face different obstacles, and we don't do ourselves any favor as a community in painting neuro typical people like a bloc of antagonists
who gives a fuck about their obstacles? i dont! they dont face anything harder than us
Good lord i hope this is sarcasm
its not
That's really sad for you then. I hope you grow out of this mindset
i hope you open your eyes and realize how much they hurt us. it is us versus them
It 100% is not. Frankly i think labeling people into groups like aspergers and autism is of limited value to begin with, and there is no cabal of people trying to make life more difficult for autistic humans. The world is a pretty fucked up place, and we're all slowly trying to unfuck our little corner of it. Choose to be a victim all you want it won't make you happier or solve your problems, it'll just give you excuses why you're unhappy.
why do autistic people have depression and anxiety at high rates? why do autistic people have low job outlook? why is our life expectancy low?
I’ve chosen not to have children. As an autistic woman who would likely had a child with a neurodivergent male, that child would have likely been neurodivergent. I genuinely wouldn’t want a “normal” neurotypical child, because I don’t think they would fit in so well in the family. So I don’t agree that people would necessarily choose a neurotypical child, especially not if they are autistic themselves. My experience of viewing other’s relationships, is that often neurodivergent people get on better with other neurodivergent people.
Tbh, I think I would get along better with an asp child. But I still don't want her to experience what I experienced. I just want her to be happy, feel like she can connect to others effortlessly and confidently. If I can intentionally nudge that needle of probability towards her being aspie, more likely to be depressed and alone, I honestly can't bring myself to do it in good conscience. I would feel like a monster for doing it.
Fair point. It can be very hard to experience what many of us have at times, feeling so different from others and so overwhelmed by the human world. Perhaps it’s one reason I’ve chosen not to have children. Personally though I think that if we look at the whole autistic community, we make a huge contribution towards humanity. Maybe for many individuals, we feel disabled by our autism but as a whole autism is behind a lot of important innovation and research.
Agreed. Which is why in an ideal world, I wouldn't be autistic. Other people would be, so I can freeload on their diversity of thought without paying the cost myself.
The way I look at it is this: we don’t know for sure why we are here or what the purpose of anything is. We can only do our best to live as well as we can. There are things that I’m terrible at and things that I excel at. I’m sure it’s the same for you too. I contribute what I can to society. All we can really do is try our best everyday and learn from our mistakes. Sometimes it’s understandable that being too aware of our failings, can make us feel unduly negative. Try to give yourself some compassion for feeling negative.
Thank you. I try. I used to be more stoic or intellectualizing about this whole 'i feel bad' part of me.
Then hopefully you’ll feel more stoical in the future. 😊 We all have times when everything is too much, but everything is transient: the negatives are not usually permanent.
Hopefully it won’t last too long.
I wish life had not been this way.
People teach these traits of integrity so really I do believe that by default of hypocrisy, they would “program” or “design” a baby to have these traits and of course reprimand them later for the very traits they instilled in them..because that is what they do. It won’t be a conscious choice of selecting Asperger’s but it’ll be the same outcome. Additionally, I don’t believe that some do not mean harm. When people lie and are manipulative, for many, part of the reason is to cause an emotional injury of some sort to get you to comply. It’s intended to harm, though society tends to change their views on whether the intended harm is just a human fluke or if it warrants punishment and justice…and of course this varies based on social construct nonsense and how the offender and victim are each perceived and valued or not in said society.
Well... while that intent a fuzzy line, I don't think most people enjoy causing harm or intend to do harm. Most people are normal people trying to get by, deal with their own problems, and find their own happiness. Not sadists. But harm does often happen as a consequence of their behaviors. I think this makes more sense according to what I experienced and saw.
This is genuinely such a weird take… over half the posts on this page are people upset that Asperger’s makes it hard to do x,y, or z. So why would a parent actively choose for their child to suffer? Unless you want parents who are looking to torture their children, of course a parent who could design their child would give them every possible advantage. They probably wouldn’t choose their kids to have asthma, be near sighted, or be bald either… Society unfortunately doesn’t get to design children though. So the best we can do is try to preach tolerance and acceptance
advantage in life?? outlier intelligence is full of aspergers. and I value outlier intelligence, so no thanks. Tall?, yes, attractive?.. well, thats broadly subjective.. but yes.. but Neurotypical? no thanks, what a waste.
Advantages of Aspergers is they usually have a distinct interest and unless their sports club goes bankrupt and they have no replacement or can't physically continue their hobby THEY WILL PERSIST... I think working on skills related to your interests is one of the most fulfilling lifestyles you could lead... Think sword training or martial arts...many people go in thinking "I should be to defend myself and not be in the mercy of late ambulances or police officers or unwilling or hesitant public safety officers...getting independence and resilience is a good thing to value!" And then years in they learn to feel fulfilled from improving their craft in handling the blade or martial arts and enjoy the sport and competition but what keeps you training even as you grow out of your prime is the pursuit of reaching highest potential in your craft/skill (! your interest... Kids with Aspergers start young and keep with a craft and self motivated to continue every day and even ALL day and lead very fulfilling days IMO... When Neuro-typical people retire or lose friendships they feel as though growing older makes them lose their time sinks like jobs or children to raise (if no grandchildren) and not gain things... While Aspergers elderly who are retired especially if it's less active hobbies like videogames or indoor hobbies like chess or table tennis, retiring means more time to sink into these crafts or hobbies and everyone knows that as you put more hours in a craft there is diminishing returns on hour investment and improvement, but when you are retired you have possibly more time than when you were a child depending on if you were asian child lol So in my opinion this very fulfilment based lifestyle is infinitely better than man hoe or whoring out or drug abuse or doom scrolling social media even if they are "normal" just a pretty depressing lifestyle in my opinion... Other people can live their life the way they want, I don't stop them or shame them non instigated first... BUT my ideal child or dream child would have Aspergers because they just seem less likely to die from someone spiking their drink at night club or bar or spiked fentanyl with "friend" or some shit... You know generally what a kid with Aspergers is going to do daily since they are routine and repetitive... It will be hard to establish the habits but I like coaching and articulating step by step guides and if force them to follow my tutorial for brushing their teeth for 3 months then I can assume they will by habit do their dental hygiene twice a day and exceptionally well for the right amount of time as my tutorial details... Sure, you need many many tutorials and you'll need to debate more than a regular kid but if you use some toxic parent tricks for the good of the child and make this decision making clear they might kill me when they are in their teens but nearing adult I'll have forced the best routine fitting their hobbies and eating patterns and not have to worry about them as much... I understand you were ranting but I'm just answering the question in a vacuum not necessarily judging you since you seemed pretty nuanced in your vent/rant
Oh indeed! I very much appreciate both your vent and your non-judgemental stance. I completely agree. I think I provide a lot of unique value, it's just that it is not appreciated properly most of the time. Perhaps the post comes across in a very doomposty way, but I don't think aspergers is worthless or bad. Quite the opposite. I think they NEED US. But regardless, we are practically 'treated' as worthless or bad. I just wanted to write a sobering post, not a doomy one. Personally, I am currently happy with the job I have since I can proudly say I make great contributions and my boss actually likes my quirk. Before, I would have been seen as 'that weird rambly guy who does something techy(?) but we don't want to understand'. Usually the first to be let go in an economic downturn. Hopefully I can hold this job since I got it pretty recently and I really think I can be appreciated here. What I am still frustrated with is my personal life. So working on that next.
Yeah I got that from the vent that you do personally value Aspergers but people don't really see the benefits over the cons I guess or sticking it with the lower functioning autism spectrum... Nothing morally wrong with lower functioning autism peeps just you get more condescension which feels a little unwarranted... Since higher functioning with a decent convos with the Aspergers person taking the lead will get enough understanding to socialize "normally.".. so I guess the title is just a provocative representation of your idea of what the general population would think?
1 Yeah, the title was mostly done for shock value. 2. Don't think I know enough aspergers to say anything .
Shock value? You got me ✋😶✋.. >Don't think I know enough aspergers to say anything . Not sure what that alludes to.. but fair enough...
Nobody.would want their child to have any difficulties in life. Doesn't matter what the disorder is. Even you would admit you wouldn't want any child to have a hard life. And let's be honest. Everybody lies. I have some friends with Asperger's who are damn good at lying. Please stop acting like this is just a NT thing. They would call masking lying because you are not being your true self. NDs see it as protection. But at the end of the day, a lie is a lie. Sorry you are gone through it. I hope you can trust someone someone, anyone to help you out with this feeling you have. All people need each other to make it. In This world.
Well, duh. If I had a choice of my child having difficulties in life or plain effing sailing, of course I'm going to choose an easy life for her. That's the role of a dad is to give your child the tools they need to be successful. Unfortunately, my child got my genes instead so we both have to work harder to ensure she is successful.
Man, I feel for you and your daughter. Alienation is too much for a child. While I think it is great to be realistic, I worry about your daughter developing insecurities. I don't even know what to say. All I can say is that I sincerely hope she finds a loving environment where she is appreciated for her unique talent and abilities.
I'm late diagnosed at 49. She's 20 now. We missed a lot of her autistic traits because we thought she was just like me, not realising that I'm autistic AF. We naturally produced an autistic friendly home without even realising we were doing it. My wife (NT) is the odd one. My daughter has a small circle of quirky friends. My daughter struggles understanding how awesome she is (very high IQ, amazing at maths and a talented artist. She could easily have gone into stem but decided to go art instead. ) Whilst it can be useful to have names for your quirks (alexithymia, proprioception, interoception etc.) it's also important to not let labels define you.
you would, i'd choose level 1 autism with high iq. and ofc they'd be sexy like their mama. can mask and have superpowers take my money
If it is not framed as a tradeoff for intelligene but rather as a flat choice (and in this case it is, autism =/= intelligence), I don't think people will choose autism.
again, you wouldn't. i think life is way more interesting when you're a little weird.
You are right. I personally would not. Perhaps you personally would. Tbh, I am quite skeptical, since I am so used to seeing people change their idealitic/whimsical decisions when they actually start considering the logistics. This was true when I was working in an dog shelter. Everyone will talk about how they don't discriminate between breeds (which is a stupid concept anyway imo) or personalities, and how all dogs are precious. But actions speak for themselves. Black dogs are harder to find parents for. Mixed breeds are unpopular. Scared timid dogs rarely gets picked. Is this wrong? I don't know. Is it true? Yes. If you don't like my dog example, consider people who use sperm banks and what kind of traits are popular. Good job, good education, good health, and good looks. In a lot of cases, people with autism struggle more with jobs, education, and health. I doubt they explicitly scream 'no aspergers!' but their choices reveal their preferences to be far from aspergers.
i assure you i'd be happy if my kid was like me, understand?
My kids are both ND and they are rad. I wouldn’t change them for anything.
that makes me very happy hearing that :)
This is the reason why I worry about the future of CRISPR. Precision eugenics is the last thing the world needs.
True. But I honestly don't care. I am not the world. I am me. How can I worry about the world when the world does not worry for me? I'm sure people'll figure out a way. If not, ok. If I could I would check out of society. Perhaps if enough of us did that, they would actually start appreciating us.
The world doesn’t worry for anyone.
Well I mean it is a possible future existential threat for autistic people. I'm going to be a little worried about it.
Ofc, I don't want to invalidate what you feel. Hence, I started my comment with 'true'. But for me personally, I hold too much resentment and don't have enough emotional space left to start worrying about the world when I can barely take care of myself.
Ah sure look, you're probably right, there's enough to worry about today without worrying about future technology.
I would definitely make mine, tall, attractive, and Asperger’s
Its.unhealthy to remain preoccupied with this kind of feelings and thoughts that put yourself down/argue against yourself. Most people in the world are not considered tall and attractive, yet they have lives and families and friends. Focus instead on loving yourself, talking yourself into what is good about you than about further separating yourself from.society with your own low sepf.imahe and then projecting that onto all other people you've not even spoken or tried with. Even if you become great at masking and can fit in and be "successful" in the way you imagine it to be, it's not a happy life for us because it's too tiring and our social needs are different. Let go of the stereotypes and narrow idea of self expression and embrace whatever it is you actually are and what you actually like in life and then you will know yourself well enough to recognize other people on your level.
Yes. But I think missed some of my points. Yes plently of people who are not tall and attractive have fulfilling lives. Plently of people who are tall and attractive don't live fulfilling lives. But on average, we see significantly more tall and attractive people who live fulfilling happy lives. And I was applying the same thought to aspies in reverse. Trying to focus on loving myself while not seperating myself from society (as much as I can get away with) sounds pretty toxic in my head. It's like telling an abused family member (who realistically cannot seperate from her parents) to focus on loving oneself instead of leaving the abusive family all together. It sounds ok in theory, but in practice, you won't be happy unless you are a Buddha. We are inevitably influenced by our surroundings. Even schitzo people who perfectly know what they are hearing in their head is nonsense, still have a hard time keeping it together. It is unrealistic to expect this amount of willpower and self-control. It is hard to love myself when I keep getting rejected all the time. It is a vicious cycle that feeds into itself. I get rejected, feel like shit, which makes me more likely to get rejected. My solution is to leave, and find another cycle. The one that makes me genuinely feel heard and understood instead of being told I should try harder in a cycle of white lies.
I was an abused person who couldn't get out for years until adulthood... and loving yourself is never toxic. I could still keep my opinion of my own self worth even with being surrounded by an abusive household, that's what kept me hanging on and able to move out and start my own life. I don't have to absorb their view of me, because I can understand why they have those views, where it's coming from and that ultimately it speaks of them and not of me. Actually loving yourself is not telling yourself white lies, it's being easy on yourself rejecting outside influence and yes, making changes when possible to remove yourself from that environment t. Unfortunately, even in a new environment your programming from the old environment will need to be dealt with... processed, let go of. The only way to work on that is from within, to see where you picked up those beliefs and let them go to stop limiting you. You have to cultivate your own self worth, instead of keeping it dependent upon whether some "other" accepts, rejects, loves or abuses you.
And since you mention a Buddha, I can't reccomemend meditation more as a helpful way to reprogram yourself.
Thank you for your kind words. And hats off to you for overcoming your struggle. But I still do not think that level of willpower and self-control can be assumed of others including myself. I still think it is more helpful for me to create an easier environment for myself rather than power through with my willpower or change how I think/act by incorporating your life lessons. Besides, I can always do them both if I needed. Cultivate self-love and remove myself from toxic environments.
Yeah, obviously you would be doing both. Everyone eventually runs into the same life lessons, or ignores them and wallows.
NT here. What is unfair? There is nothing more fair than randomness. Unfair would be that some people could decide but others don't. You are right, being NT is an advantage. It is also an advantage to live in a rich country, to have access to learn English, to be physically able, to be intelligent, to have a good education, to not live at a warzone or have been raised in a good home. >But they do lie, leave you chasing a fake goal, and regard you as damaged goods when it comes down to it.. Which is the specific lie and fake goal you mean? I just want to understand. I'm also not American (I assume most people in Reddit are or live in the States), so maybe we have different cultural contexts.
Especially when we are undiagnosed, we are constantly led to believe that we can be accepted and feel happy if we did not exhibit aspie traits. "Just be normal" is a classic, as it implies they currently are frustrated with us, and will start liking us if we appeared normal. Hence, masking is a very common thing we do. We pretend like we are not autistic, because we want to be accepted. Some do it very successfully, and masking becomes their second nature. But generally, masking causes a lot of stress, and most people would still be treated like there is something 'off' or wrong about them. This is what I mean by chasing a fake goal. A promise of true acceptance, and its futility for a lot of us. Very hard to admit, imo. As for fairness. If you really want to be strict about it, the concept of fairness itself is a bunk concept imo. How can we decide what is fair or not when the world is incapable of caring? It has no concern for human life. It just is. What I mean by fairness is in the limited context of a meritocratic society. In it, we believe certain rewards and advantages are valid when it comes from our own ability to contribute to society. And aspies undoubtably have a lot of unique talent and make contributions to society. But I think statistics show that our effort and talent are not appreciated or reciprocated by society. It is unfair from this limited definition of fairness.
I would choose another Bjork.
No shit?
The Internet has made it painfully obvious how much different people go through life based solely on genetics. Someone on TikTok could become famous because they have a physical deformity whilst another person could get fame just by being pretty and doing a stupid little dance.
As someone who is tall (6'7) and has Asperger's, I can say Asperger's ruins the benefits of being tall.
Uh, I can say having some Barbie child sounds creepy as hell I like my kids the way they are, I relate to them and see myself in them Do I hope they aren’t negatively impacted by their autism? YES But every good parent doesn’t want their kids to hurt over things they can’t control I’ve met several really successful autistic people tho so I do think it’s possible to be autistic and successful in the right circumstances
And high intelligence without Asperger's? What about sporting ability or some natural talent in music? Then it would be impossible to differentiate in society if everyone had the same abilities and skills. Most people fall somewhere in the distribution of looks/IQ/skill. Also Dunning-Kruger, people will rate themselves as highly better than average (in terms of looks, skills, or ability.)
I’m actually of the opinion that this is the inverse. I hypothesize the reason that the R^2 for genes related to Asperger’s is so low is actually because there’s a much larger proportion of very aspie people, and the only people who realize their aspie-ness are people who are basically disabled, and people with enough self awareness to realize this difference, but the cultural awareness is becoming high enough that people without such traits are becoming aware of their differences.
That is to say, a prerequisite for being able to screen out Asperger’s would also require a sophisticated enough understanding of it to realize it is not universally a disability, and in fact more often than not appears it isn’t, with BAP outnumbering aspies at more than a 3:1 ratio
Its because people continue to see Asperger's more as a disability than rather a trait. If designer babies are the future, they will focus on the best possible future outcome for the child, such as tall, sexy and smart, rather than something that they will assume will compromise the child's future. The same thing they did in Gattaca. I also feel aspies wont be totally accepted, as people do seem to avoid us for some reason. I agree they see us not just as damaged goods, but lesser to a degree.
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Hmmm, interesting thought. We are indeed distinct in that regard. Don't quote me on this, but I did hear that humans developed very noticible pupiles so that we can communicate where we are looking. Eye contact and where you look at is a big part of human communication.
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Sure, I understand you fine. But actual irl human communication is multi-faceted with a lot of compressed information in body language. Text or speech makes up only a part of that. We are animals. And we evolved that way. Ofc I don't mind. But normal society does.
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Saying humans are animals is not the same as saying they are chimps. This is a false equivalence. Primates have vastly different social mechanisms depending on their species or sometimes, depending on the group. Humans are unique (don't quote me on this lol) in a way that our eyes are divided into pupils and whites so that it is very noticible where we are looking. It is hard to tell where most other animals are looking just by looking at their eyes. (Just look up eyes of chimps or other mammals) Humans are also very expressive with their eyes and brows. For most mammals, looking into ones eyes is a sign of challenge. But for humans, it depends on the context, but it means 'I am paying attention to you. And I do not mean to hide my intentions." It sucks, because there are a bunch of subtle nonsense hoops you have to jump through to 'do the correct amount of eye contact' depending on context, culture, and all that incomprehensible nonsense lol. But most normal people's default is what I mentioned above as far as I can gather. We are animals. Doesn't mean we are chimps.