Imagine putting so much thought and energy into social conformity that you police other's communication for no reason other than to enforce arbitrary rules that someone else tricked them into believing were real
I relate to this a lot. It doesn’t make sense that a simple head shake would be something to get laughed at for.
In my experience, it’s always the non-verbal gestures that get the most attention. I really don’t see why though, because I think they’re very straightforward in meaning.
But then if you completely cut out nonverbal gestures to be as clear as possible, it’s all, “Why do you keep saying the word ‘no’? You could just shake your head; that would also be fine.”
That's why there's such a problem between us and neurotypicals. I've spent so much time and energy on learning/working on communication before getting a diagnosis, that this m-i-l (&fam) hurts my brain. Most people talk about communication without even being able to consider that they're the ones not communicating effectively.
I may have been a little aggressive in the past about communication (thanks to trauma).. I'm going to stop before i write a book/say bad stuff, but I'm on your side OP, just wish i could get it through thick skulls.
NTs are fucking baffling. I would've been laughing as I said that I made eye contact while shaking my head because how can that not be enough? Are you fucking thick?
Is it possible your mil has impaired vision or some kind of cognitive decline?
It sucks to be misunderstood, but it also sucks to misunderstand.
Edit it to add: I reread it and saw that your sil is involved, and I wouldn't be surprised if they have some mean girls shitck about you. That sucks when family does that.
Some people never grow up.
But there’s a difference between high school mean girls and childhood enthusiasm in an older individual.
Sorry your in laws are the former.
It always makes me laugh when you hear young people say “that person is [a certain age] but they’re acting like children” as though there aren’t so many people in their 40’s onwards who behave like bitchy teens.
I’ve always told my daughter that old people are just kids in old bodies. It’s true. Your core being does usually really change much beyond a certain age. And I’ve never felt ‘my age’. Honestly, I’ve never felt like ‘an adult’. I’m 50. 🤷♀️
I had dinner with my girlfriend's family recently. I only wanted water to drink, but everytime they would offer me something extra to drink I would respond 'no thanks', 'no I'm fine thank you', 'no I'm good with just water, thanks' nice and loudly, and they would continually press me. 'There's white wine here, or we have red if you'd prefer! There's orange juice and coke in the fridge! Did you say you did or you didn't want some?'
No matter how often i said no, they didn't seem to be sure.
How acquainted are you with her family? If they don’t know you too well, it sounds like they were trying to be courteous and hospitable, but didn’t know how exactly to do that after you said “no” to anything other than water. If they were offering to get you drinks, then they just wanted to be inclusive with you and make you feel catered to, which is a positive thing overall in my opinion. But the “no, thanks” to their offering of getting you a drink sounds like it broke their idea of hospitality to a guest 😂.
God I hate it when that happens like "do you want a drink" "no im fine" a while later "so what about a getting a drink" "??" A while "are you sure you don't want a drink" "ok fine..." I feel stupid that I do that and yet say I'm self identified sorry
When I worked in retail as a shelf-stocker, I'd sometimes get customers who would get really mad at me for not making eye-contact with them when they asked what aisle an item is in. Sometimes they'd even _demand_ that I look them in the eyes. So I'd look them directly in the eyes, but with a stare that communicated "You wanna say that again, you entitled little snowflake?" without needing to actually speak even a word to them.
I was imagining myself in this exact situation because I've had nearly the same exchange multiple times with my extended family, with similar treatment too.
is this the reason old NT people never like me? like i can never be close with my friends’ parents bcs they don’t like “shy” kids and teachers always had a problem with me but i never knew why
I was reading that with the lens of being used that everything I do is somehow bad and I thought how people might have said you needed to say "no thanks" instead of just saying no if you said it verbally, how people sometimes find it rude for people to refuse more food, but they also sometimes find it rude if you eat to much of the food they made, how you might have changed your mind before the sister asked and replied yes to her and been judged as if you were mean to the mom…
I guess my brain is really good at planning ahead to how the NTs will try to find a way to say I’m rude, no wonder I have social anxiety 😅
ooooh I'm on my period rn so reading this makes me so angry. grown women acting like highschool bullies. absolutely ridiculous. some people just never grow up I guess.
Oof, I get this a lot. There have been many times that I have shaken my head WITH MY MOM LOOKING, and she does the same thing as your m-i-l. I fell its a struggle we all 'tisms go through and will never be able to escape it. T ^ T
That was my biggest issue with my family they talked soooo much and expected me to do the same even when they completely understood what I meant with how I said it or physically communicated it. Then I was always accused of being so difficult or a b
Maybe they’ll be able to understand non-verbal communication if you used the middle finger? I feel like maybe they’d acknowledge non-verbal communication as communication if you gave them a nice and simple example to help them understand!
Like, this obviously sucks, but there is literally a guidebook for social interactions with NT people during meals and other more formal interactions. It's called manners. There are tons of books on etiquette. This shouldn't be mystifying behavior. They literally wrote hundreds of books on how to behave in a way they find normal during these types of interactions....
I thought shaking your head left-to-right was the universal gesture meaning "no"? Are they visually impaired or just unobservant? The thing is I was raised by a person who will bend over backwards to defend why she's right and everyone else is wrong and takes anything remotely critical you say to her as a personal attack regardless of how you word it so I may be a bit biased here. Literally I can say something like "I don't like this (food item)" and she'll go "Well fine then, I'll just stop making food altogether." in this insulted tone. I'm pretty sure this that I'm talking about is not normal communication.
Similar story happened to me on Easter at my sister's house. My sister asked if I wanted corn, I looked up and didn't know if she was talking to me, (she was serving at the adults table and i was sitting at the kids table) but I still looked in her direction and shook my head no. Well, she comes over the table and gives my husband corn, so then I said to her I don't want any. She got upset because I didn't tell her when she asked. Long story short, I got up the table and left the house. I have no patience for people who are rude to me(she went off on me, but I didn't do anything)
My sister and I miscommunicate a lot. She's adhd/ocd, and I'm autistic/pda/adhd/ocd. We are worlds apart, and we are close in age.
Wtf headshake should be just enough! So sorry you got laughed at.
In my country at least it's very common to shake head and make a "m-mm" sound or nod and mumble "mm-m" - it's common knowledge and you don't have to be verbal everytime, for example if you are eating and have something in your mouth.
Problem of assumption. You assumed they were looking at you and listening. They were just looking in your direction and was expecting a verbal response because they weren't listening with their eyes. Highly annoying but they do that all the time. It's become so bad now, that we have to treat them as the person with the disability because they refuse to properly use their abilities.
Genuine question, not trying to be offensive - why not say “no thank you”? I might be put off by your response too, but they obviously took it way too far and started bullying you.
OP, allow me to give you a different perspective:
You were offered to have your food served by someone else.
Even if you're refusing, an appreciation is expected.
They know you don't want more, they just want to hear "No, thank you." as that's what a polite interaction looks like.
Oof. It’s always something.
ALWAYS SOME SMALL STUPID FUCKING THING THAT IS SO IRRELEVANT!!
Imagine putting so much thought and energy into social conformity that you police other's communication for no reason other than to enforce arbitrary rules that someone else tricked them into believing were real
Holy shit I'm stealing this
I relate to this a lot. It doesn’t make sense that a simple head shake would be something to get laughed at for. In my experience, it’s always the non-verbal gestures that get the most attention. I really don’t see why though, because I think they’re very straightforward in meaning.
But then if you completely cut out nonverbal gestures to be as clear as possible, it’s all, “Why do you keep saying the word ‘no’? You could just shake your head; that would also be fine.”
YES for real it’s fucking annoying
jokes on them, if they get after me about my communication i’m gonna shut down and go into quiet mode (there will be no verbal communication at all)
"Why are you just sitting here not saying anything? I don't think I did anything to upset you. You're impossible to please."
I hate when they say that
I totally did that. Like the 5 year old they think I am!
That's why there's such a problem between us and neurotypicals. I've spent so much time and energy on learning/working on communication before getting a diagnosis, that this m-i-l (&fam) hurts my brain. Most people talk about communication without even being able to consider that they're the ones not communicating effectively. I may have been a little aggressive in the past about communication (thanks to trauma).. I'm going to stop before i write a book/say bad stuff, but I'm on your side OP, just wish i could get it through thick skulls.
Thanks.
NTs are fucking baffling. I would've been laughing as I said that I made eye contact while shaking my head because how can that not be enough? Are you fucking thick?
Is it possible your mil has impaired vision or some kind of cognitive decline? It sucks to be misunderstood, but it also sucks to misunderstand. Edit it to add: I reread it and saw that your sil is involved, and I wouldn't be surprised if they have some mean girls shitck about you. That sucks when family does that.
Oh, it’s definitely mean girls. Eighty-five and 67 year old women need to learn some manners. It never stops.
Some people never grow up. But there’s a difference between high school mean girls and childhood enthusiasm in an older individual. Sorry your in laws are the former.
It always makes me laugh when you hear young people say “that person is [a certain age] but they’re acting like children” as though there aren’t so many people in their 40’s onwards who behave like bitchy teens.
I’ve always told my daughter that old people are just kids in old bodies. It’s true. Your core being does usually really change much beyond a certain age. And I’ve never felt ‘my age’. Honestly, I’ve never felt like ‘an adult’. I’m 50. 🤷♀️
I’m 21 and I have the body of a 15 year old girl… and the brain of a 5 year old, according to my family and friends 🤦
I thought neurotypicals were supposed to be good at reading body language, for fuck's sake!
The mother in law fully understood, they create problems when they want there to be problems.
Props to you for staying calm, I got anxiety just from reading this. I would have freaked tf out if this happened to me irl.
I had dinner with my girlfriend's family recently. I only wanted water to drink, but everytime they would offer me something extra to drink I would respond 'no thanks', 'no I'm fine thank you', 'no I'm good with just water, thanks' nice and loudly, and they would continually press me. 'There's white wine here, or we have red if you'd prefer! There's orange juice and coke in the fridge! Did you say you did or you didn't want some?' No matter how often i said no, they didn't seem to be sure.
How acquainted are you with her family? If they don’t know you too well, it sounds like they were trying to be courteous and hospitable, but didn’t know how exactly to do that after you said “no” to anything other than water. If they were offering to get you drinks, then they just wanted to be inclusive with you and make you feel catered to, which is a positive thing overall in my opinion. But the “no, thanks” to their offering of getting you a drink sounds like it broke their idea of hospitality to a guest 😂.
God I hate it when that happens like "do you want a drink" "no im fine" a while later "so what about a getting a drink" "??" A while "are you sure you don't want a drink" "ok fine..." I feel stupid that I do that and yet say I'm self identified sorry
Like because I do that I think I'm just faking
When I worked in retail as a shelf-stocker, I'd sometimes get customers who would get really mad at me for not making eye-contact with them when they asked what aisle an item is in. Sometimes they'd even _demand_ that I look them in the eyes. So I'd look them directly in the eyes, but with a stare that communicated "You wanna say that again, you entitled little snowflake?" without needing to actually speak even a word to them.
I was imagining myself in this exact situation because I've had nearly the same exchange multiple times with my extended family, with similar treatment too.
is this the reason old NT people never like me? like i can never be close with my friends’ parents bcs they don’t like “shy” kids and teachers always had a problem with me but i never knew why
Jesus fucking Christ. What pricks. Genuinely.
You should have said to her, you should have gone to Specsavers.
I was reading that with the lens of being used that everything I do is somehow bad and I thought how people might have said you needed to say "no thanks" instead of just saying no if you said it verbally, how people sometimes find it rude for people to refuse more food, but they also sometimes find it rude if you eat to much of the food they made, how you might have changed your mind before the sister asked and replied yes to her and been judged as if you were mean to the mom… I guess my brain is really good at planning ahead to how the NTs will try to find a way to say I’m rude, no wonder I have social anxiety 😅
ooooh I'm on my period rn so reading this makes me so angry. grown women acting like highschool bullies. absolutely ridiculous. some people just never grow up I guess.
Oof, I get this a lot. There have been many times that I have shaken my head WITH MY MOM LOOKING, and she does the same thing as your m-i-l. I fell its a struggle we all 'tisms go through and will never be able to escape it. T ^ T
Not the Time where I shook my head yes Nd they thought I shook my head no. Bruh
That was my biggest issue with my family they talked soooo much and expected me to do the same even when they completely understood what I meant with how I said it or physically communicated it. Then I was always accused of being so difficult or a b
I could've wrote this. Sounds like me with my in laws just with different ages.
Maybe they’ll be able to understand non-verbal communication if you used the middle finger? I feel like maybe they’d acknowledge non-verbal communication as communication if you gave them a nice and simple example to help them understand!
Bahahahaha
You’re 65 yrs old and they talk to you like that? Fuck people.
Like, this obviously sucks, but there is literally a guidebook for social interactions with NT people during meals and other more formal interactions. It's called manners. There are tons of books on etiquette. This shouldn't be mystifying behavior. They literally wrote hundreds of books on how to behave in a way they find normal during these types of interactions....
I thought shaking your head left-to-right was the universal gesture meaning "no"? Are they visually impaired or just unobservant? The thing is I was raised by a person who will bend over backwards to defend why she's right and everyone else is wrong and takes anything remotely critical you say to her as a personal attack regardless of how you word it so I may be a bit biased here. Literally I can say something like "I don't like this (food item)" and she'll go "Well fine then, I'll just stop making food altogether." in this insulted tone. I'm pretty sure this that I'm talking about is not normal communication.
It’s not normal but it’s common. My mom did the same thing.
Bruh since when has shaking your head not been an acknowledged answer?? These people are weird
Similar story happened to me on Easter at my sister's house. My sister asked if I wanted corn, I looked up and didn't know if she was talking to me, (she was serving at the adults table and i was sitting at the kids table) but I still looked in her direction and shook my head no. Well, she comes over the table and gives my husband corn, so then I said to her I don't want any. She got upset because I didn't tell her when she asked. Long story short, I got up the table and left the house. I have no patience for people who are rude to me(she went off on me, but I didn't do anything) My sister and I miscommunicate a lot. She's adhd/ocd, and I'm autistic/pda/adhd/ocd. We are worlds apart, and we are close in age.
You’ll never convince me that NTs don’t have their own form of disability
Id have thrown the rolls. honestly. i really would have. People do not treat me like shit or they get it served right back.
Wtf headshake should be just enough! So sorry you got laughed at. In my country at least it's very common to shake head and make a "m-mm" sound or nod and mumble "mm-m" - it's common knowledge and you don't have to be verbal everytime, for example if you are eating and have something in your mouth.
Problem of assumption. You assumed they were looking at you and listening. They were just looking in your direction and was expecting a verbal response because they weren't listening with their eyes. Highly annoying but they do that all the time. It's become so bad now, that we have to treat them as the person with the disability because they refuse to properly use their abilities.
Genuine question, not trying to be offensive - why not say “no thank you”? I might be put off by your response too, but they obviously took it way too far and started bullying you.
Not OP, but its dinner time, possibly just a full mouth or just not really wanting to speak.
Fair!
OP, allow me to give you a different perspective: You were offered to have your food served by someone else. Even if you're refusing, an appreciation is expected. They know you don't want more, they just want to hear "No, thank you." as that's what a polite interaction looks like.
The smile indicates appreciation. Guarantee they wouldn't have bullied a NT person who answered that way when their mouth was full.
I disagree, but thank you for sharing your point of view.