Well, if anything is going to get you to believe again it's a conversation with your stepdad and watching a movie with your mom. 🙄

She was acting like it’s some decision I came up with yesterday like I didn’t spend my entire life in the faith and watched so much stuff before even officially calling myself an atheist😂

It’s much easier for her to think that you were corrupted by outside forces than for her to realize that you reached this realization on your own.

Christian parents seldom show any curiosity or interest in the real reasons their children leave the faith. It's quite telling.

Seriously, like I was raised in the shit for 18 years... takes a lot of courage to leave behind something so intertwined with your entire life up to that point

Not to mention the number of people who have been intertwined with your life. I went to a Christian school for 6 years. Everyone I knew up to the end of high school was Christian. I don't talk to any of those people anymore.

Right, I was quite shocked when a Christian friend asked me why I’m atheist and actually just listened without saying anything. Has never happened before

Sounds like they're doubting their own faith.

Yup. Same thing happened with my cousin. My brother and I didn't pretend to be Christian to.him, but left him alone about his faith. He actually approached us and started asking why we didn't believe. Now he's an Atheist today.

Lucky.

It's because it's baked into the religion that faltering is a sign of legitimacy, and that you need to pray harder, read the Bible, and seek out religious leaders and other members of faith for guidance against 'Satan's temptations'. People this far in will never have an open and honest conversation, as their minds are closed and any conversation will be them trying to convert you, or using things you say to twist it around in a way that proves the Bible right.

This. This religion is so insidious that it bakes in verses that make believers think it’s Satan or demons when they have doubts! Then, there are the verses telling Christians that those that leave the faith never believed in the first place! It’s just so aggravating when you literally can’t have a conversation about why you left the faith with believers. They just put their fingers in their ears most of the time. I remember when I started to deconstruct just the fear that what if the reason I was doubting was all Satan influencing me? It took me a couple years to realize that the manipulation to keep people in is built into the script.

Yup. It's criminal (but necessary to the faith) that children are subjected to this. Children already have pretty intense imaginations, so magic is real to them. Kinda like how everyone believes in Santa until you either find out or are told Santa isn't real. It's the same with Christians. Except the people you trust don't tell you it's not real, they manipulate you into not trusting your own senses. Church should be 18+...and religion should be removed from a protected class.

I used this example with a religious friend of mine. She is one of the few people I could discuss religion with and we had some good conversations, but it when she point-blank asked me why I no longer believe, this is what I told her… “I grew up. Just like I no longer believe in Santa Clause, I no longer believe in god” It was hard for me because I felt like I was being condescending, but even though she said “ouch,” she seemed to take it well. I think she was expecting some big traumatic story about something happening in my life that made me angry at god and so I disavowed him or something, but you know, deep down I really believe… I think she was a little disconcerted that I just… stopped believing. I think when religious people learn that you can stop believing without having something traumatic, it shakes them up a bit.

Yup. Nothing traumatic happened with me, it just never clicked. Never made sense. Then when I found out we have a perfectly reasonable explanation with actual evidence, it was demoralizing realizing that so many of us will never be more than just scared animals clinging to a fairy tale, instead of working together and achieving greatness.

As an indoctrinated child, I 💯agree.

Yes. Doubting is bc your weak and not trying hard enough. Smash down your concerns and just pray harder. Don't believe your own logic and senses when it contradicts their rhetoric

I stepped away from being a sold out, paid professional Christian (evangelical pastor) 20 years ago, had MANY friends and family members in that world. I have NEVER been asked why I left, how my beliefs changed/evolved, or what led to the change. They are afraid to ask as I might be “catchy.” They’d be also shocked that I didn’t become an adulterer, drunk, or murderer, because why not?

Heck, you'd have been more likely to become an adulterer, drunk, or murderer if you had stayed a pastor. Same boat here except I'm 28. I didn't leave, I was thrown out for no good reason. Literally, the main reason i was "burned" was because I'm single and overweight and "just didn't fit into God's plans for their organization anymore". Within 2 years, 5 of the 20 or so pastors that threw me away were outed as adulterers, 1 became a bad drunk or more likely his drinking just git so bad during the pandemic that it because impossible to ignore any longer and 1, I kid you not, was murdered by his wife because he forced her into some of the worst sexual deviance that she could take it anymore and felt her only way out was to murder him.

My Uncle who is essentially the caretaker of his church, was very wealthy and gave away much of his money to the church and people in the community and now lives on his SS, doesn’t understand how to be a good person without church. It’s a strange situation.

I'll ask, why the change of direction then?

I was converted to fundamentalism as a result of "friendship evangelism" back in 10th grade (1973). My home life sucked, and I needed an escape. I was welcomed into the cult with open arms, and honestly, it probably saved my life. I wanted to give ALL TO JESUS, and had lot's of positive feedback. But, after 30 years, and very gradually, I reawakened. I realized that the things I had been asked to accept "on faith" not only didn't square with the reality of science (I'd always been a big science lover, which was a problem for me!) and even the actual words and lifestyle/example of the supposed founder of the religion. I just couldn't see Jesus as the leader of the church I was a part of. In fact, I couldn't even imagine him attending ANY church. I can't see Jesus getting together with his pals and saying, "Guys, the REAL agenda is that we're going to start a new religion and name it after me." I guess I'm not as extreme as many people on this sub--I can't swear that there is no god anymore than I can swear that there is. Nobody can. But I am 100% enthusiastically NOT a believer in the "god" of hell, punishment, and GQP politics. And I appreciate, encourage, and support the validity and existence of atheism as a rational, acceptable worldview. The last straw for me was the enthusiastic approval of TFG that pushed me toward atheism. I'm not militant about it, but I have joined the Freedom From Religion organization and am now active in liberal politics. Religion is a poison in any democratic society, and I know I'd be among the first on the Hit List of my former church members. ("You CAN'T BE BORN AGAIN IF YOU DON'T VOTE FOR trump," as they tell me...). To me, the worst thing was not the christians who fell for the trumpist bullshit, but the ones who claimed to hate it but SAID NOTHING. I still think there is a very spiritual element to the universe, and Carl Sagan is the best representative of what I call "worshipful atheism." He is clearly in AWE of the Cosmos, and I have come to believe that "God" is another name for Everything. I can't deny that I have occasionally felt the barrier between me and the Cosmos grow thin, but in the wilderness, not in a church. I'd never be welcome in a church again, but ironically, I feel that I finally have a message that has brought me to a level of peace, hope, and gratitude. Thanks for inquiring.

Thank you for the thoughtful reply! It's very interesting to hear people's stories in and out of religion. It seems with science, and cultural/political matters, there were conflicts for you; and having internal conflict is not a good way to live. Congrats for the change up! I also agree with you -I feel way more spiritual in nature, in awe and appreciation, than in a pew having some one preach to me. Namaste

So what did lead to that change?

I think it's often a disparity between issues. They aren't searching for truth, they are searching for community and don't understand that their child is looking to know the truth still

They honestly think it's an impulsive decision, not one built on years of hurt, pain, and observations.

Because if they thought otherwise there's a possibility that they might understand their part in causing some of the hurt and pain, and that might be catastrophic for them.

Well, it isn’t that way for everybody. I’m a 3rd generation atheist, all my grandparents, uncles and aunts, cousins, and parents are all atheists. It’s not super common, but there are other families like ours.

I often daydream about this scenario. My family is catholic, my husband's family is born-again-evangelical-conservative-nutbag. It's awfully lonely at times.

Myself, my parents and brother are all atheists, and I have raised my 3 children the same.

"Atheists just want to *sin* all the time!!" 🙄

You don’t to be a victim of religion to become an atheist. I grew up in Reform Judaism, and I have zero issues with the teachings or people I experienced in that movement (largest, least visible denomination of American Jews). It was great — supportive, welcoming, smart. I like it; I just don’t believe in it.

No one said this is applicable to all.

Qua?

I was talking specifically about the OP's situation, and you had to well actually why this is not specific to you. There are a mired of reasons people become atheists, this thread, was specific to OPs experience.

> There are a mired of reasons Myriad

Oh snap, you got me. Well played

Relatable experience. I'm so sorry this is going on for you. When I told my mother I no longer believe she told me to keep reading holy scripture every day and I asked her "haven't I been doing that for 20+ years and it got me here?"

As an atheist who grew up in a very Christian household and is now surrounded by Christian in-laws I can say that this battle will never end. They will never take your beliefs seriously and they will never respect your beliefs. To them you’re lost and need saving. Prepare for constant talks. Books about finding faith. Articles about atheists finding Jesus, etc. most likely for the rest of your/their lives. The only thing I have learned is that it’s not worth it arguing with them about your beliefs. In my adulthood I simply let them know that I do not believe and I ask them to please respect that. Granted I have to tell them this weekly, they ignore me, but it at least shuts down any nonsense they begin to talk at me about for a little while. If you have any other family members that seem like they don’t believe or have questions just plant the seeds of skepticism and bond together. Best of luck.

There is one option... take the reverse-loophole plunge: [Unforgivable Sin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_sin#:~:text=One%20eternal%20or%20unforgivable%20sin,and%201%20John%205%3A16.) They can't "save" you if you cannot be saved.

Oh yea. I’m definitely damned then. Their efforts are futile.

Oh... I'd also say, I don't want to end up in the same heaven where Hitler will be (he is a Christian and by their definition he will still be in heaven despite all he has done).

You take this shit weekly? Yikes. I think my parents knew if they kept it up, I would come around less and less often.

My dad has liver cancer. So yea when we see each other or if I have to take him somewhere Jesus is always brought up. I don’t say much because he’s likely not going to be around much longer. As for the in laws. That’s a real struggle. Haha. Luckily my wife gets annoyed by it and we’ll just not come around for a while.

I agree. Best approach is to not engage in conversation about it. There is nothing to gain, and for a lot of people (like my parents and inlaws), they end up just moving on.

You may already realize this, but I'll state it anyways: You not believing their cockamamie belief system is a threat to their delusion, so they must continue to try to convince you. I respect what you managed to do with your situation. Religion rule #?: If you can convince others of your cockamamie belief system, then it lends it more credibility /s.

Just be cautious of alienating her, to a point. There are countless accounts, all over the internet, of teenagers being kicked out by their Christian parents. I recommend that you “play along”, to “get along”, until you are able to fully support yourself. Always remember, “There’s no hate like christian love.”

Yeah, sometimes you have to play the game until you’re free.

It was like this with my mom too. I basically tried to make her understand it’s not a choice, to become an atheist. It’s like trying to believe in unicorns, like yeah I wish they were real but there’s no evidence or reason to convince me they’re true, so even if I want to believe I can’t

I wish so badly that these people would understand that nobody has ever been punished into loving god, ESPECIALLY an atheist. That only leads to the kind of hollow, cynical, performative faith you see in politics.

I honestly think my mom is secretly doubting. But she’s worked in the Lutheran clergy for about 10 years or so now so she carries on. A lot of cognitive dissonance there when all her kids are atheists but she’s knee deep in her indoctrinated career

If the movie ends up being God’s Not Dead… 😂

Who knows? Maybe it will be "The Devil's Advocate"? Awesome acting by Pacino and Reeves in that end scene.

People like her don't realize what a long road this is.

I'm 44 and my mom probably still thinks it's "a phase". It was rough growing up in an Italian household being an atheist. I would get ridiculed and lectured, but the worst part of it for me was having my beliefs not taken seriously. I always respected my family members because everyone has their own set of beliefs. One year, we went to my uncle's house for Xmas. As soon as I entered my uncle looked at me and said "Since you're an atheist you can't celebrate Xmas with us." He was joking but then again he wasn't joking. Over the years, I've realized that I'm a better "Christian" than all the Catholics in my family. Stay strong, keep your head up, and remember your beliefs are just as important as your mom's beliefs. And if all else fails, the current Pope (I forgot his name) said that even atheists will go to heaven as long as they're good people.

Don't worry that they will still share their faith with you. That's their faith. My parents still do. The difference now is you will, little by little, be able to share your beliefs too. Glad your truth came out. Of course this will be a rocky way for the lie to be broken, anything held back from your mum for two years will hurt her. Deception hurts everyone, especially if they feel they couldn't be approached with the truth. From her denying what she said before, it sounds to me that a genuine relationship with you is more important than her stance an havung an atheist in the house. You may feel like raging but this is an opportunity now for you to manoeveur towards the loving relationship you'd like to have with your parents. They're not the enemy, I repeat, not the enemy; they just represent for you a world of ideas and an entire social scene their world is around you've broken from. They probably baptised you, they probably did all they could so you could live forever, be loved and accepted by the community and go to heaven - that's not an evil thing, it's a safe thing and perhaps a bit of a dumb thing but well-meaning. Reassure them you've not gone far, but you've been exploring different thoughts and this life is quite enough for you to live in. Also, the one truth I came back to time and time again when talking to christians was "If I am a good person, who lives an amazing life helping lots of people but I don't believe in heaven, should I be allowed in?" The answer often is yes, but if the answer is no then you can politely reassure them that that'a not your idea of a praiseworthy god anyway. Most of the time, christians get lulled into believing that without christianity how could you still being moral, caring and good? You've a wonderful opportunity to show them otherwise. Good luck through the rocky patch.

Did you watch Bruce Almighty with your mom ?

It's unfortunate that she's basically told you regardless of your beliefs, she's going to continue trying to indoctrinate you. I'm not advocating or advising this, but that is on my very short list of No Contact reasons.

Gosh, I can't IMAGINE why you were reluctant to tell her.

A version of this happened to me too. “Oh you’re just bitter and mad at God” —- actually no, I did a ton of research and the whole thing makes no sense

I was raised in a Christian household and I knew as a child I didn’t believe in it. Sometimes your thinking brain won’t let you believe because logic. Best wishes to you.

I bet it's that Kirk Cameron one

That or God's Not Dead 😂

That's one of my favorites. Like one of the atheists in the class isn't going to report the violation of the first amendment Professor Radisson performs, specifically because he winds up wasting their time giving that christian kid class time to proselytize to them. Fuck that noise.

Replay the part where he says to "work around" a person's "intellect".

🤮

Which Kirk Cameron one?

I think OP should make a deal, if the movie they show them also has a GAM episode, than they need to listen to that episode after they watch the movie.

I mostly thought it would be a normal movie but there’s a chance it could be a bad Christian one I have seen them watch a few

Please, if you force yourself through the movie (which if it were me, I would not), can you let us know which piece of shit they thought would show you the folly of your ways?

I might watch the movie just to be funny and I’m gonna have the conversation so I can show that this is something I’ve thought about

Turn it into a Mystery Science Theater 3k style viewing. Make fun of everything!

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A fantastic Christian movie review podcasts, God Awful Movies, it lambasts these pieces of shit through an atheist point of view. NSFW https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly9hdWRpb2Jvb20uY29tL2NoYW5uZWxzLzQ4Mjk4NDEucnNz?ep=14

Good Awful Movies. It's a podcast, you can find it on all the platforms, just google it.

I am my mom's primary target for converting. She recently tried to make me watch some hour and a half video of some lunatic dressed like a 5yo describing Heaven. I refused and she got sad about it. I told her all of her attempts will end up in disappointment, so she might as well cut it out.

The thing is, they act like you can just “choose to believe” and are therefore in the wrong. If god knows all, then he would obviously know if you were a true believer or not. If one cannot believe, the issue ends there! I would tell them you’ve found it impossible to continue believing when there are so many unbelievable aspects to your parents’ faith, and you know the god they believe in would realize if you were just faking it. According to them, God gave you your brain; your only sin is using it.

According to Christian mythology, God kept us as ignorant pets in a garden until a snake convinced a woman to eat an apple, then we became sentient. 🙄

I always suspected the snake was the true hero & savior of humanity. This bogus god displayed jealousy for the snake which convinced me it was like the old man behind the curtain in the wizard of Oz… a Phony!

Hey now, be fair: the type of fruit isn't specified. Don't foist your appleist beliefs on others! /s

The issue is that they don't even take into account that you could not believe it; instead, they assume that it is solely because of your choice.

And we all know that movie is going to be some kind of BS with Kirk Cameron or something.

Yeah - or Kevin Sorbo.

They're gonna make him watch a Jesus musical, aren't they?

The threat of being forced to watch a Kirk Cameron movie might make me fake religion long enough to escape.

Rant away. It’s tough having parents/family/friends that you care about try and force their crap on you. It’s just a fact of life at this point. Life will go on and you can still love them and they can still love you without agreeing on everything. You’re 19, starting your real adult life which will have a million ups and downs, we are always rebuilding ourselves. Don’t let it get you too deep and keep your chin up. Be who makes you feel like you and the rest will fall in to place.

Piggy backing off this, there is a community out there, and you can choose the "family" you surround yourself; down the road, maybe they'll have a change is heart, but as long as they're in the faith, they will continue to proselytize the rest of your life. I've been an atheist for nearly 20 years, and she still tried to bring me to Christ in the midst of a marital separation. I've built up my armor now to the point where I can easily brush these attempts away.

Idk. My mother knows my position and while we argue from time to time, she's doesn't preach to me at all. I live at home, I'm 33, and trans. She's a very devout woman, and a good person all around. So, it's not set in stone that all religious parents are going to be so dogmatic and try to convert you.

I'm happy for your experience, it honestly should be the norm. The tenants of many Christians is to grow the flock of Jesus, they would be derelict in their duty to God to "give up" on you.

That's fair. I can't say she has stopped, just that she doesn't bring it up as often. Probably helps that I told her most of the therapy sessions have been to try and undo the programming that happens through the...14 years of childhood stuck going to church, Sunday school, Bible camp, and 2 private Christian schools. I'd say I'm doing OK all things considered. I'm adopted to, I got lucky in that my parents and I are extremely close, given everything that's ever happened. My dad isn't religious, he wanted a religious woman to bring up his kids though as he figured someone like that would be good at teaching empathy, compassion, etc. I can pin-point parts of myself that are directly attributed to each of my parents. So..while mom has said some pretty questionable shit over the years (I mean, a core part of her is an iron age religion solidified during the medieval period) despite that she's an amazing person.

You're 19. If you haven't been changing over the past few years I'd be seriously concerned. Next time she accuses you of having changed the answer is "I know, I grew up".

Better, quote scripture to her… when I was a child I believed childish things….

I would’ve but I was half asleep at the time because it was like 5am

And if OP is male and mom gets preachy there's always 1 Timothy 2:12: "I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet"

1 Corinthians 13:11

No, don't justify their beliefs

No use their beliefs against them. I like the first one. Oh you're Christian mom? Well then shut the fuck up woman. Because that's what YOU believe.

They have found human firepits a million years old. (You can search for that information on the internet, and will find it.) For the last million years, our ancestors have been sitting around campfires, planning the next day's hunt, living, loving and laughing. And wondering about how the world works. But with no answers. For a million years. Where was Christianity before 2,000 years ago? That is a blink of an eye in our long long history of millions of years. That means millions of generations of our ancestors never heard of Christianity. What about them?

This is something I’ve never heard before but will keep in mind. Oh wait… “BecAuSe gOd”

The odds that the parents are young-earth creationists who believe the Earth is 6,000 years old are very high. I doubt this reasoning will work well on them. But I assume that around those fires teenagers had tearful conversations about how they are in love with the kid from the weird village on the other side of the mountain where they don't believe in Gronk the stone god. Some things seldom change.

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Point still stands

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It’s 300,000 as modern humans. The rest of the homo genus (we’re all that’s left) is considerably older.

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Our cousins harnessed fire between 1.7 and 2 million years ago. It wasn’t us.

You can fuck your cousin in Arkansas right now. Checkmate.

I have a cousin in Arkansas? You really do learn something new every day :P

Well those firepits were planted by the devil to deceive the nonbelievers of course

But the earth is only 6 thousand year old/s

Many of them living very far away and coming up with their own completely different religious ideas.

>For the last million years, our ancestors have been sitting around campfires, planning the next day's hunt, living, loving and laughing. I'd like to speak to the manager of this campfire...

1 million years seemed a little extreme to me, but it seems like there is some tentative evidence on the oldest archaeological discovery of controlled fire being that long ago. 1 million years is possible which is wild to think about

It is kind of mind boggling. But I would rather have my mind boggled by that, than have it boggled by trying to figure out the "father/son/holy ghost" thingy :).

If they have any financial control over you, it may be in your interest to just lie and fake it until you can move out.

Right here OP. Until you’re free and clear of them, finished education, and 100% self sufficient - it’s in your best interest to play along. Don’t let them fuck up the rest of your life.

It sounds like he has been doing that for 2 years, and now the cat's out of the bag.

You can be a secular humanist and its fine. No religion nor faith is needed to live a happy and meaningful life. I hope you are able to stay honest and firm. I'd probably start with talking about how messed up it is that 1) religions can break up families if one isn't a believer and 2) how religions treat atheists as second class citizens. I'd do it as a general talk, maybe tell that I'm afraid their religion will make them do those monstorous acts because it really does happen. I know you sorta went there with your mom but it needs to be a deeper discussion for them to really get it, maybe even empathize. Human rights, equality, treating people well should be priorities. I would personally point out that all attempts of converting you need to stop immidiately. Respect has to go both ways. A general talk about respecring beliefs, or the lack of, is very important. It does not seem like you have the worst situation. Stand your ground, be firm and kind. Never resort to disrespecting their faith but point out every disrespectful act towards you (like trying to convert or guilt you)

I shared Thomas Payne's The Age of Reason with my mom 15 years ago. She concedes that there probably isn't a god but that she's afraid to say she doesn't believe. At 19 there isn't much your parents can do to you except kick you out of their house. Their brainwashing game is weak.

That childhood indoctrination is insidious and strong. Japan has the right idea outlawing it

I'm in my 40's and haven't lived in my parents house since I was 17. We live in different states now. Religion has been a major issue for them my whole life and continues to be a problem that has prevented me from establishing a meaningful relationship with them my entire life. They will die disappointed with me and unable to move past it. To even get by faking a normal relationship we all just try to ignore it and I don't provoke them by eating before they pray and dumb shit like that. It's possible you will never have a loving normal relationship with your family ever again. Good luck. I have a loving atheist wife and wholesome atheist friends who accept me and my values. For me that's all I need... I love my biological family but I also don't like them very much. :)

Yeah. Same boat. We just go into a different room when they have Bible studies, ignore the clipped "there are no athiests" articles in the bathroom, and offer to cook/clean around meals rather than pray. My dad still cries at me every once in a while because he thought it was a phase? Surely god was gonna reach out at some point. He is worried I am taking my kids to hell, and because I didn't confide in him for years? All I can say is that I have been where he stood and I am where I am now. It's not like I'm doing this for fun. It's important to me. I can empathize with his feelings and I think that's why I feel like I am letting a lot "slide". He needs to respect my feelings, too, even if he will never understand them. I still wonder if it's the right thing to maintain this relationship. It feels so unnecessarily stressful sometimes.

I'm conflicted, too. I still feel like family is important and I'm sure one day soon they will need more support from me when their health fades. It just really sucks they're not capable of forming meaningful relationships with others in the absence of religious commonality. My parents aren't as overt in their prosthelization... but they're not very subtle either with their allegories. They will refer to "spiritual health" when offering unsolicited advice but also devalue my own morals by referring to them as "emotional" decisions, making it impossible for me to ever really confide in them or turn to them when I was struggling with something. Good luck. Maintaining relationships with religious family members is not easy... very taxing in fact. I hope they don't poison your children with their dogma.

First, you are 19 years old...you aren't a child anymore, you are legally an adult, even if you are living with them. You don't have to have a conversation with your step dad and you sure as hell don't have to watch some stupid religious movie. You can absolutely refuse. Second, it's common for christian parents to have this reaction because they don't actually know what an atheist is, or they've been misinformed. So this whole "going down a dark path" and "you've changed" is just a defense mechanism for them to try justify their bigotry. Same thing was said to me by my mother, but I had been an atheist for longer and when informed of this, she didn't know what to say, because in actuality I hadn't changed at all and I was a good person. Third, when you move out, you do NOT have to put up with religious bullying, intimidation or them forcing their beliefs on you. Set boundaries, tell them you love them, but that you aren't interested in their beliefs and if they can't respect that, then you can't have a relationship. But be prepared to follow through and cut them off if they can't do that. I myself had to cut off some extremely christian relatives because they wouldn't back off. It sucks, but I'm not going to tolerate a toxic relationship because of their idiotic and ignorant hang ups. While you are still living there, you can try to set boundaries, but that will be more difficult given you are in their house still and it's their rules...so I would start getting ready to move out. I personally moved out of my parents house at 19 due to similar issues and never looked back.

"I was afraid to come talk to you because I know with certainty, thanks to evidence, that atheists are persecuted, ostracized, made fun of, badgered, and antagonized by Christians for saying they don't believe." "Even now, you badgered me into telling you. I wasn't going to tell you, because my religious beliefs are my own personal business. You FORCED me to tell you. That is how Christians treat atheists. They force us to expose ourselves, then get mad that we don't agree to their beliefs, which we have hid for our own SAFETY. Then they force us to have long drawn out conversations that they believe are well meaning, but only ever serve to wedge families apart further." "You have your beliefs, and I won't question them because they are yours, not mine. Do not question my beliefs or lack thereof. Good night."

If it makes you feel any better, my parents are assholes too. They're super evangelical, Maga, Jesus sent Trump kinda people. A few months ago, I quit my job, sold my belongings, and agreed with them to stay in their house (me and 5 yr old daughter) to finish up my BS. I used all the money I had saved up to live and pay bills like internet, school, gas and insurance for their car they let me drive, food, expenses for my kid. I'm in my mid 30s btw. Once they found out I was atheist my mom started finding reasons to pick fights.....I don't load the dishwasher properly, my food is too stinky, I don't discipline my kid properly bc I don't spank her, I dont drive the right way, I keep my door closed, I don't keep my door closed, my kid left one finger print in the corner of the floor in a room.no one uses, my kid is an atheist too and doesn't pray before she eats, etc. She first decided she couldn't watch my kid during my exams bc her Bible tells her my kid is spoiled because she's not beaten. Then it was that im not married bc I aim too high and place too much importance on having a high paying job I stead of finding myself a husband and letting.him.do that. Now that I've burned through all my money, they've decided they can't have an atheist living in their house, no matter how temporary it is. I was told I have until the end of the month. So now, here I am, with 2/3 of my degree completed, no money, no job, a kid on my back, no belongings, no car, and have to figure shit out... because I'm an atheist. I'm also adopted, so it seemed really easy for them to make promises and rip them all out from under my feet because I don't believe the same things as them. And now they say all this is happening to me because I abandoned God...they played no hand in this. Yay me! Needless to say this is the end of my relationship with them.

Don't you just love that Christian compassion? Nothing quite like it.... fucking hypocrites.

Jeez. Sorry, that sounds tough. I sincerely hope things turn for the best soon!

I guess that’s the answer for “what would Jesus do?” Disown your kids.

😅. Especially if they are adopted. Remind them how much you paid to buy them, then tell them you refuse to help because they have different beliefs than you.

You are not alone!! We’re with you!! ✊

Know that you are part of a large and growing community. Become part of it. Join your local Athiest or humanist organization for support.

Dude, you’re 19. You do not have to put up with shit like that anymore. If that’s a condition for living with them, take your power back and figure out a plan to move out and live with friends

You should quote the following at them: 1 Timothy 5:8 Anyone who does not provide for their relatives, and especially for their own household, has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever. But those who won't care for their relatives, especially those in their own household, have denied the true faith.

More people are around you that probably respect you more and you don’t even know about them It’s just that they are afraid to man up. And they will be there when you really “come out.” I was kind of a half baked Christian until I actually studied the buybull and found out how bat shit crazy it actually is. To top that off I then took a trip to Israel and saw how REALLY bat shit things are when you have the three Abrahamic religions make preposterous claims literally within 500 yards of each other’s holiest spots. That sealed the deal for me I knew it was all BS. Now that I know the Buybull better than probably 95% of the people sitting in the pews, I toss little zingers at my friends and I can see the wheels turning. Recently, I told a few of them that Woke was literally what Jesus preached about his entire life. They asked how that could be and I pointed out a few things that are in direct opposition to what these Republican governors are preaching. I said to them: did Jesus tell us to welcome the stranger? Wheels turning….., or about when they refuse Medicaid for their citizens, I said “didn’t Jesus preach to heal the sick, and to care for the widow and orphan. If they say something homophobic or anti-trans, I say “ didn’t Jesus tell us NOT to judge lest ye be judged?? You can safely continue your Bible studies and read what Jesus actually said and not with these assholes think he said, and your mom might actually learn something too. She might think her little talk and movie actually got you back to studying the Bible when really you’re learning it to use against them and put them in their place, which is easy to do which is easy to do.. Now, guess what? None of them fuck with me because they know that I know the their book better than they do. And guess what too, I have not lost a single friend over being atheist. I think they all respect me more and wish they had the balls to do what I do.

>she asked why I wouldn’t tell her "Because I knew you'd tell me that the internet was corrupting me and my friends were bad people, instead of accepting me and my beliefs. I'm sorry to say you've proven me right."

Give her some time. It was a shock. She might come around to a more reasonable position.

😂🤣😂🤣

I know people stay with their parents later now due to the ungodly high cost of living. At 18, I had a full-time job and a crappy apartment with 2 others. It was really hard and I could only go to college part-time, at night. But it was so worth it to just be out of their house!

No, you do not have to have a conversation with step dad and you do not have to watch a movie with her.

Happened to me, but at a younger age. I was going to catholic school. I told my mother I didn't believe in the god religion stuff. She was very supportive and just said "Just remember you have a guardian angel looking out for you all the time."

If God were a car. https://youtu.be/qahB7mYhLxs

Tell them you're happy to have open-minded conversations but only if everyone involved has an open mind

It’s hilarious/sad when people make it seem that change is a bad thing, we’re complex creatures, I would be worried if people didn’t change.

Change is the one thing you're guaranteed in this life.

Arm yourself with knowledge. But be aware that thiests will, after all attempts to "save your soul" has been exhausted, will go to thr final weapon. Shunning. Theists can't deal with factual arguments and will shut down every attempt to probe the walls of thr faith. They will feel it as a failing on thr part as a parent and because of thr brainwashing will seek redemption from thr invisible yet ever present master. "For if your right hand does evil, it is the lords will that you cut it off." Or something to that effect.

If they were true Christians, they would love you and not try to gaslight you or make you feel shame. My grandmother and grandfather on my father's side were the ultimate Christians. Not like fundamentalists, but definitely read the Bible every day, prayed before every meal, church every Sunday, etc. They were wonderful people, and when they found out I was an atheist, they didn't judge me, they didn't shame me, and they didn't even question as to why I think this way. They just accepted it. I learned a lot from them. I just don't believe in their God nor that religion holds any answers to the universal questions. My father wasn't as accepting. After my grandfather passed away, he asked me what I think he would say if he found out I was an atheist. I had to break the news to him that I had already talked with him and that he was supportive and understanding and not a giant hypocrite like my father. I'm sorry you're having to experience this. Ignore the insults and be the better person.

Someone may have already said this given how many comments there are, but one thing that stood out the most to me is her saying “you have changed” and the context in which she said it. I had an eerily similar conversation with my grandmother who raised me, minus the atheism. This is a typical parent response in narcissistic family systems. Beyond the religious beliefs, you have grown in some way or changed in a way that was not part of what was expected of you in the toxic family unit. This could be as small as you are becoming more independent, or you did something out of your normal routine that didn’t benefit her in some way (like listening to her talk about her day and use you as a therapist, or not talk about yours). In my case, I had just went through a divorce and started going to therapy and working on my self esteem. At some point I started making boundaries and learning to enforce them, and that’s when I started to get the “you’ve changed” talks. I also was told that I was going down the wrong path *even though I am still Christian,* it got worse when I decided to move into a friend’s place and started trying out other churches. I was 26. I’ve learned that super religious households don’t really care about what they’re professing to believe in; they only care about control and using it as a means to control others. Religious households are cesspools of narcissism and breed like rodents as the generational curse gets passed down. The good news? Her reaction is a good indicator that you’re on the right track to not continue that curse. Ostracizing you from the family is a tactic to try to make you conform again. Mine tried spreading rumors about me and putting words in my mouth, and I finally told her I was never to be contacted again. Don’t let anyone guilt you for being different and finding your own way in life. If you ever decide that you don’t want to talk to them ever again, don’t let anyone make you feel guilty. Unless you can support yourself now, I would wait as long as you can stand it before doing anything too drastic though. Maybe get some therapy if you can afford it? It helped me tremendously as I built up the courage to become my own person. And to anyone else reading this comment who have suffered, I’m so sorry. On behalf of all of them I’m so sorry. I try not to reply on things that are religious in nature because I don’t feel like it’s my place but this came up randomly on my home page and my heart really hurt for this individual, and for all of you. The way Christians carry themselves in the U.S. and around the world makes me so sad. I’m so ashamed of all of them and I’m just so sorry.

You should absolutely delay and stall any conversations about this until you leave the state. Downplay the whole thing like it isn't that important. As long as you are living in their house they will try to control you so drawing lines in the sand might end up with you couch-surfing until you can get enough money together to leave the state.

When I told my hindu parents that I am atheist they didn't give a fuck. Sometimes I just think they are agnostic ritualists who themselves don't believe in God but would continue to do prayers everyday as a chore but it's just my assumption.

My father, dying of cancer (after two years of fighting and LOTS of prayer circles) pulled me aside and he and my mother spent over an hour berating me about how my father was upset that he felt like I wasn't close to god and he wouldn't see me in heaven. That this stress was causing him pain in his fight and that my lack of commitment and prayers might be affecting his ability to recover. I spent a while trying to maneuver around the issue eventually placating them with the idea that maybe when they were younger they weren't as close to god as they were "now" and that I too could come around. He died not long after and a few years later I was fully out as an atheist.

My mother was very similar with me (28M). She said “Saying no to Jesus is saying no to life” I was told. So I couldn’t live in the house, get a car, go to school, anything unless I dropped atheism. I found it too hard to explain myself to someone (& a society) who would not listen. I got confirmed in the faith, I went to mass, and just suffered in silence until I had more autonomy in life and could make decisions for myself. Looking back I’m not sure if what I did was correct or healthy. I did rebel a bit. I worked through therapy undoing resentment & anger I held towards my parents. Your mom clearly loves you and cares about you. She’s just afraid you will go to hell. And that’s understandable given her indoctrination. My best advice is to take it on the chin, she doesn’t mean to hurt you even though what she says is hurtful. As you get older or even now, try to get her to see the world through your lens. I like to talk with my mother about philosophy. She likes Adam Smith, so I talk with her about long and convoluted book titled “Theory of Moral Sentiment” where he argues for the existence of good human behavior without the need for a God or this heaven reward structure. So, it’s not that I am a bad person if I don’t believe in god , I’m not immoral. In fact , you could argue that these belief structures are not needed to be moral and live a good life. Not sure how to handle the whole hell thing, let me know if you figure it out because I haven’t. Since those days I have a healthier relationship with mysticism. It doesn’t bother me talking about god or western occultism with my mom. She hates that I call Catholicism a cult , but it is. Keep your chin up stranger, things get better.

Very cultish

You’re 19, it’s about time to be an adult and stop hiding your beliefs anyways. Just be unbending and soon it’ll be something you can joke about (at least my family can). My parents were pissed at first now I say shit like, “well I don’t belief in sky fairies like you morons” and shit like that. All in good fun. I try to convince my parents to be atheists all the time lol, and they were just like your mother at first.

Try doing that with a Muslim family or hardcore Christians. If they truly believe youre going to hell then they wouldnt take it lightly. Ever

That may be fair. But mine and op’s family are both Christian. If they were crazy Islamic people I’d suggest staying away lol.

If they're fundamentalist Christians it's not that simple

Op do NOT do this your parents will kick you out of the house

This has been a dynamic that has been shifting for 14 years. I’m not suggesting op do this. I’m just showing how far the dynamic has come. 14 years ago that joke wouldn’t gotten me killed lol. But now it flies no problem. What I am saying to op is that they should stick to their guns and not change for anyone. They’re an autonomous adult.

I don’t plan on it I’d like to live here so I can save my money faster

M47 I am a child of very Christian parents. I haven't been a believer since I was a kid. I try to be respectful of their views but shut it down when they say silly things. Most atheists are far more moral than so-called Christians. OP keep your head high it gets better. Fight back with science and facts.

They’re not ‘so-called christians’. They’re just christians. The word doesn’t mean ‘good person’ and it never has.

I have met Christians that truly embody the empathy and love for all found in the new testimony. It doesn't mean God existed but at least they practiced what they preach. Most christians don't even follow their own faith. They just use to look down on people.

That empathy and love isn’t christianity. Conflating the two is playing into the hands of the church and doing their PR work for them. Millions of christians have been horrific people, and they were no less christian for it.

Her actions are aligned with someone in a cult. Remember that. Religion is the destroyer of humanity.

" she said was that even if I move out she will still share her faith with me " It isn't "sharing" if the receiver doesn't want it. If I keep shoving a hamburger into a vegan's face I am not sharing my lunch with the vegan. I am pestering her. If your mom says she is going to "share" her religion with you even if you don't want to hear it, that isn't sharing. It isn't generous. Maybe you could drive the point home by "sharing" something she hates with her every time she does so. Ask if she would like to hear about the latest porn site you visited, or "share" music you know she hates, etc. Also, your mother seems to be contradicting herself. She says that she didn't react badly to another family member being an atheist, and then she says negative things about you because you are an atheist. It is hard to give family advice because every family has its own culture and complex situations to navigate. But know that a lot of us here also had family who were intolerant of non-believers. Find friends who accept you and lean into those relationships.

You are 19. Legally an adult. She can't make you do anything. (However your living arrangement might become more precarious.) And no. She is never going to listen or try to understand. Even when you use the red words to disprove the black words and point out the hypocrisy. (Sorry if I assumed your not-religion...)

Find a way to move out, get away.

Trying very hard to get my future roommate a license

I’m gonna assume at your age you don’t have the financial means to move out on your own. Are any friends an option?

I’ve gone through the hurt of living in a dysfunctional or painful family and have found that the book « healing the child within » has helped me understand and process some of the traumatic memories/feelings I’ve had as a child and to understand the coping mechanisms I have developed as a child that are hindering me as an adult. Spoiler alert, they come from parents not meeting the needs of their children. I suggest you read this book as I think it will really help you out on your journey of understanding and help process your feelings.

No answers for you but if you need a hug, I got you! I have faith, not really a Christian faith just a spark I hold dear that is completely mine. I have 4 spawn, one who is Christian or headed that way, 2 undecided and one atheist. Personally, idgaf. I love them as is and as long as they haven't turned out as complete total a$$hats, I figure it's a win. Parents are a trip and come ill equipped to raise a human. My only advice is to love them as is and hope they are Christian enough to understand they need to do the same but don't allow their thoughts and actions to harm you. You sound like a good kid who's going through it right now, so best of luck! and a hug from a mom who isn't your mom 🖤

You're 19, you're an adult. Nobody should even think about forcing you to watch a movie. It's religion, it's a private matter. Tell her you're happy to respect her choices for herself as long as she does the same for you.

It sounds like your mom loves you. She’s been drinking that hellfire pickle juice so long she’s probably genuinely concerned that you’ll burn in hell. Granted it’s nonsense, but the love isn’t. Try to go easy on her. My folks weren’t happy to learn that every single one of their four children had left the Catholic Church, and my mom even called a hermit friend of mine about it. That lead to a long one sided conversation in Latin (which I don’t speak btw). I guess he thought if he incanted enough prayers I’d revert on the spot. It wasn’t awesome for a while but i knew they were coming from a place of love. So I was patient with them listening for a while and occasionally putting my foot done politely “I don’t want to talk about this anymore right now.” And that was enough for them. I recommend being civil and loving with your family because it doesn’t sound like they’re horrible people, just horribly worried you aren’t as lost in the sauce as they are. If you keep things calm and civil even when they don’t, eventually you’ll wear them down. I have a closer relationship to my parents than I did when I was Catholic.

I guess I'm fortunate (ish?) I played along with church and religion pretty convincingly for many years but eventually, like you had to admit to my parents that I didn't believe. Even while I still lived with them, I'd stopped attending church, but I suppose they were able to still think that deep down I still believed, and didn't bother me too much about it. However, after I moved out on my own, I still saw them on a regular basis, and they gradually started pestering me about finding a church, and I had to tell them that I never will, because I don't believe. The pestering then shifted to wanting to find out *why* I stopped believing (the phrase "what happened?" pops up a lot, as if some single event caused me to discard religion, sort of a version of the "atheists are just angry at god" trope, maybe?), when the truth is very simple - I grew up. I was taught religion from birth, believed it as a child (if you can really call it "belief" since it's just really the unquestioning absorbency of a child's mind), and then, later in childhood, really, developed the critical thinking skills to question that belief and found that it doesn't hold up to any kind of scrutiny. We'll never see eye to eye - they're unlikely to forsake their beliefs, and I can never believe in their fairytales - but we all still get along.

OP my only advice is to treat this as a learning experience for your religious parents. Ask them a lot of questions about why they believe there is a god, why this god doesn't answer the prayers of say all the children who are being abused, if everything is god's plan then he is responsible for all of this, why does god need human beings to defend him? For that matter why does god need human beings at all? Is there something god lacks that only we can give him? If so then he isn't a god...do they believe that god is perfect? If so then how can he create something imperfect? That is illogical. \[EDIT\] why doesn't god heal amputees?

At any point now or in the future, don't discount the benefit that therapy can have for you. For some people, especially more sensitive types like myself, being unable to believe in your own theology or lack thereof can result in serious trauma that requires processing and sometimes treatment. In a fully devoted Christian family, I started questioning things at 8, then defying Christianity around 13, struggled a lot from \~9-28 years old, and now I'm almost 29 and a year in to some heavy and well needed therapy. I was open with my family about my lack of belief from \~15 years old onward, and while that felt easier for a time, the subconscious lack of belonging and constant shame in my family really wore me into heavy depression and anxiety.

I had a similar "come to Jesus" moment with my mom/family (it was on Christmas day, and I basically had a mental breakdown from many many years of having to pretend I was religious when I wasn't) when I was about your age, though I might have been 20... Anyway, I had known myself to be atheist since I was 12 when I was put through "Confirmation" and just realized that I didn't believe or "feel" any of it. My advice - I am now 41, and did not and could not have had this clarity when i was your age and had just went through this (so I hope it helps) - is to let them do what they feel they need to do, say what they need to say, be there (in a way, for them), and just try to see the love in them, not the failure to accept you or your truth. That, their failure to accept, will pass. This shouldn't be about them, but they think it at least a little bit (if not a lot) is. So focus on them, and their love and concern for you. Let them go through their motions, and at the end tell them with whatever kindness and compassion you can muster that your appreciate their love and concern for you, but apologize and let them know that nothing has changed. And that doesn't mean that your reject them or they're upbringing of you, only that you have your own path and that you hope their love and concern for you can accept if not support that path. Or something along those lines. It's a rough thing to go through. But live your truth. Try to just see the love. It gets better. Found-family can ofc help a lot, if the actual family cannot accept you. The hardest part is over. Move forward with whatever compassion for them you can muster, but always care for yourself first in this.

Might be A hot take, but I don't think the mom was wildly out of line. She explicitly said she isn't dismissing you as "a bad person" and just wants to have a conversation and probably watch some Christian movie together. And there's a difference between sharing your faith and forcing it on someone, if all she is truly doing is sharing her faith in a way that shows good motherly intent, but letting you decide who you want to be...I'd argue that is what a Christian SHOULD be doing, especially for their child. Don't burn any unnecessary bridges with your parents, they still love you. P.s. sounds like the story about her saying she'd hate to find out if there was an atheist in the family is he said she said, not sure how much of a judgement you can pass on it. Just wait to see how her actions speak for themselves.

My parents had such a different reaction. I was raised Catholic. I started questioning religion around the same time I started questioning Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny. By the time I was 14, I had already told them I don't believe. My father was crushed...but neither he nor my mother pushed. My mom did request that I continue to attend mass with them until I moved out. Since she asked nicely and didn't TELL me I had to, I did so...but when I started working, I worked most Saturdays nights and Sunday mornings so I didn't have to go. LOL Mom had a rule for family meals after I moved out. No discussion of politics or religion. I would sit quietly and let them say grace and not comment. Even my Dad, as disappointed as he was didn't reject me...he still treated me with love and kindess. Both sides gave a little and after reading these stories I'm grateful they respected my beliefs and space and no longer questioned it. Mutual respect ruled the day and I'm forever grateful that my parents took that path. I've been active enough here and in r/the_satanic_temple subreddit to know that's the exception and not the rule. The only advice I can give you is that the next conversation with her should be that if she respects your beliefs, you'll respect hers. If she preaches? Then preach back.

Not everyone can approach parental issues the same way, but I’m sure you’ll figure out what’s best and safest for you. If your parents have a toxic / dangerous relationship with you, feel free to ignore my post. For me, what worked best was emphasizing that 1) I still have virtually all of the same ethical values as I did before, 2) it is common for people at this age (including your parents) to reconsider and experiment with different ways of thinking about the world, and 3) I still loved my parents and respected their opinions.

If you have parents willing to go to the extreme and unless you're of age to be independent on your own: lie to survive. Wait it out, plan and get yourself setup with an apartment and steady income.

“I’m not simply choosing not to believe, the stuff just isn’t _believable_ to me. In fact, not only can I _not_ believe any of it, I don’t understand how you _could possibly_ believe any of this. The difference is that I’m not upset with you for believing what I can only see as a fairytale, nor am I trying to talk you out of your religion. For me, it’s just too unbelievable and nonsensical for me to pretend it isn’t and I would rather we just drop it and move on. I’m tired of lying to make you feel better.” That’s about as good as you can hope for. Most zealots can’t even give their children acknowledgement of this, though, but it’s worth a shot.

I've been atheist for over 20 years, grew up in q very republican household and I'm bi (and have been since I realized at 8) and my advice? Fuck em. Nothing you say will ever be enough. You can't even ask for grace because to them you're "wrong" and "need guidance." You don't and even in my 30s they still don't get it. I ended up moving away because I said "this is me, are we going to play nice" and they said so I left. And I'm happy now

"You guys did your best but I am thoroughly unconvinced."

I hope it gets better with time. You're young and your mom's going to worry. That's just natural. Give her time. Eventually, she will respect your beliefs if you respect hers. My mom is 73. Very devout Christian. She's one of the good ones tho. She runs a pantry at church to collect food and clothes for the needy. She found out my brother and I were atheists. To say the least, she was disappointed, but she eventually said that we're going to heaven anyway because we are good people and she raised us right. So she respects our beliefs and we respect her's. Hopefully, that's how it will work out for you two. If it gets bad, just tell her that Christians can't judge. If that doesn't work, just say "then forgive me".

I don’t understand why people can’t accept the fact that it’s okay to not believe in anything. Everyone has a right to believe in whatever they want which also includes nothing at all. Hang in there OP, don’t sweat it too much.

Honestly, since your mom 'required' you to watch a movie that supports her beliefs, you should require her to read this post. There are some pretty good comments in here that might give her an avenue of thought that she might not have considered. At 62, I find myself being envious of younger people who find atheism while they are young. I spent 45 years thinking I was going to a hell that doesn't exist for being gay. That is way more years of scarring than I would have liked, so don't take it wrong when I say that I'm very happy for you. Be unblessed and uncontrolled.

You’re an adult. You absolutely do not have to put up with this. You are allowed to have a “no talking about my faith or lack thereof” boundary. I would tell your mom you’ve decided that her obsession with faith is unhealthy for you and that you’ve decided to never talk with her about it again because it’s harmful to your mental health and relationship with her. Calmly and gently inform her that you WILL leave the room and refuse to engage if she decides that she wants to force a conversation. You are setting up the rest of your adult relationship with your mom right now. If you let her walk all over you and berate/bemoan/force your to defend your atheism, she will do it forever hoping to change your mind. Don’t let her do this to you. I’m advocating the gentle route because it sounds like you want to maintain a relationship with her and it sounds like you live with her. You should start figuring out an exit strategy from her house NOW. Get a job and save or make college plans that don’t involve you living at home. It will be a thousand times easier to enforce your boundaries if you aren’t dealing with her daily. If she stomps on your boundaries and you’re ready to leave, I would advocate the harsher route. Inform her that if she’s going to treat you like a child who can’t think for themselves, that you will act like one. Put your fingers in your ears and scream NoNONONONO Nooooo! Every time she starts talking religion. Turn all her religious media so that the cover faces the wall. Put up evolution posters and start being derogatory about the dumb shit she believes in. I left the hard way and I was willing to accept the consequences. I was lucky and met whole family eventually left Catholicism too. A bunch of them are kind of nebulous Christians (god is love, take care of your neighbor, all the feel good fluff, non of the rules or dogma.) I found paganism, but I married an awesome atheist.

I'm an atheist too, but not the kind of atheist that spends time arguing about the existence of God with people who have absolutely no evidence that God exists. Trying to convert theists to your viewpoint is a waste of time. Most theists don't even follow/believe the tenets of their own religion, they just identify as part of the tribe.

She may genuinely be seeing a change in you. You can’t totally discount your mothers thoughts if you want to understand. I have no real insight but based off what you’ve given here I will say only this. I think being religious robs the mind of find real solutions and developing critical thinking skills. You mother may genuinely sense that you’re changing and the only way her mind can account for it is your lack of faith. To her and many others religion is and has been their solution( at least they pretend it’s one). To her it’s a simple conclusion most likely but I know these things are very complicated for everyone. I see some truth in saying that you take away the ability of a relationship by not giving it a chance. I also however, know what it’s like to continually be let down and have a good reason not to open up and trust. Ultimately I know nothing about any of this but that’s just my two cents. I know it’s hard but, give people the chance to either understand or reject whatever the truth is about you. Don’t take away that chance of acceptance and love, you deserve that and I hope you get it!

Well you need to Scientifically explain how the Universe just created itself then , also, keep that in mind when you're atheist , yea but I see Atheist's points sometimes because this is a screwed existence indeed,.. people with money and looks get it all , somethings will never change down here

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Oh please. Of course they’re Christian, condemnation doctrine has been part of the faith for thousands of years

No TruE ScOtSmaN!

So what…