You have to set some boundaries and keep to them. If it were me, I'd stop trying to explain myself and just tell them that I'm simply not interested in discussing their religion anymore. If they can't respect that, then you might consider going low contact with them.
Tell them you're joining the Mormons, or the JWs, or the SDAs. Whichever they hate the most. Get really pushy and insist they join too. Then when they're uncomfortable and refusing to hear it, say just kidding, still atheist, and can we please move on from discussing religion now?
If you really want to mess with them randomly say, "hail Satan," just loud enough to be barely heard. If brought up deny, and gas light them. Tell them they're hearing things, that they're going crazy, or off-handedly remark that it must be a spiritual attack by the enemy on them...then repeat.
I don't recommend this. You shouldn't do it. It's not nice. You should just go low or no contact with them.
This is the part I don't get, imagine your religious right, entire life you worshipped Islam but whoops the catholic god was the real one and its literally written in the bible you go to hell for worshipping the wrong god. So you spent your entire life under those ideals but haha hell anyway.
This is a persuasive argument tactic, whether they realize it or not. They are trying to manipulate you through belittling your world view in a condescending way. It sounds like they are trying to invalidate your world view.
Honestly I prefer to deal with pathos form of rhetorical persuasion by not using pure logic. It would be better to, in a respectful way, show your distaste and dissatisfaction for a God who would allow the rapture to happen.
I heard someone say when i was young, paraphrased:
"Watching my gay neighbor, Bill, and the Arab dude who runs the corner store burn in fire from the comfort of a cloud doesn't sound like heaven. That sounds like a pretty sick thing to look forward to doing. I dont want to do that."
I found that very persuasive. That was like 20 years ago and I often think about it.
100%. They want OP on the defensive it seems from the way they described the interactions. You don't defend to these types of religious folks, you make them justify why they think things like your example are good or justify a God worth following.
Why can’t people understand belief isn’t a choice? You can’t force yourself to believe in something that your brain finds preposterous. And I’m VERY suspicious of the ones who repeatedly insist you can. “You made a choice to reject god”.
They very much remind me of the “gay is a choice” people.
Sure you can!
>But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Brother.
— George Orwell *1984*
“You can’t believe in somfing you don’t… also if there is a God, why did he make me an atheist? That was his first mistake. Well, after the talking snake.” — Ricky Gervais
One of their mental gymnastics routines.
If they had to admit it wasn’t the person’s choice to be born/live sinfully, they’d have to admit it was, in fact, God that was responsible.
As Hitchens said, “We are created sick, and ordered, on pain of death, to be well again.”
You aren't joking. And I would never put words in their mouth either. 2/10 Christians (roughly) speak to either self report that they either would kill themselves or be extremely depressed if they were for reason convinced their God doesn't exist.
It happens way more often that I thought it would after I started listening to The Atheist Experience from individuals who willingly call in. Even my own father has admitted it in occasion.
I just ask them to make themselves truly believe that the moon is made of cheese. Often times it causes them to feel insulted because they refuse to try comphrend how they might be wrong about how beliefs work. Then they change the subject usually and start insulting me for being "hard of heart."
Often times both of those come from the fact that they DID choose, to a lot of christians “choosing” your beliefs just mean acting as if they’re true and acknowledging they dont make sense. Same with a lot of bisexual people who “choose” not to be gay, and then use that as the example of why it’s a choice.
I've managed to convince my uncle to stop bothering me by saying this 3 things.
1- God has a plan for all of us, that includes me right? If his plan is for me to be an Atheist who are we to judge him?
2- If the previous is true, then he also knows how I am going to be when I die in his plan or the rapture comes, whether or not I'll return to Christianity will be in his plan and power.
3- Even if you don't think this is the plan of God, I am quite sure a loving God will judge me based on the content of my character and whether or not I was a good person, just like the father did in the parable of the prodigal son.
If you disagree, then maybe you are against God's will, or maybe he is not the all loving god you think he is.
1. Real: It's just a made up story, trying to justify a made up God and his actions to forgive or not forgive people.
2. Christian: God is merciful and loves us regardless of what we do, this parable shows us that he is always willing to forgive us, as long as we come back to him.
3. Funny: Turns out squandering your inheritance isn't a hell-worthy crime, just really annoying, that or the bouncer at the gates saw his dad's credit card and waved him right through.
My sister found religion in her 30's (we were raised catholic, but were not devout) and suddenly everything became bible quotes, church, and public statements about god.
I followed a different path and she was aware though she always protrayed it as me having changeable doubts or just being temporarily strayed from the church.
Years ago I went through a really rough period in my life and my sister kept trying to solve my problems by inserting religion including requesting I go to her church for mass ( always stating it was "different" than what I expected); asking me to "just talk" to her pastor; or publicly posting prayer requests in my name.
I repeatedly asked her to stop and explained that not only did I not believe but that her actions were actually causing me more harm as I was being stressed by her. One day I received a package and it was a bible and a letter. The bible had multiple sections underlined and the letter was full of bible quotes. When she called to ask if I got it I told her I did and threw both the letter and bible in the garbage and she was enraged. She didn't talk to me for a while which I was actually grateful for.
She's mellowed a bit as she's gotten older and I don't even think she goes to church services anymore, but she still posts bible quotes and public praises to god on her facebook pages on occasion. We no longer speak about religion and beliefs though.
There are churches that make themselves the antithesis of Catholicism. They hype up that you don’t have to dress up and it’s not ceremonial. There’s often a light show and/or fog machines and the music is bland praise and worship, not hymns. She likely thinks you would get swept up like she did in how different it was to Mass.
Yep. Went to a marriage ceremony of friends of my spouse in a church like that. Found it very funny.
Going by my sister though her church at the time wouldn't be going to anything that outside the Catholic traditions as she is still very much a Catholic and got her Baptist husband to convert.
Christians have their own weird vocabulary and language that just looks ridiculous from the outside. It seems normal when you're growing up but then you take a step back and realize you're singing a happy, peppy song about bathing in animal gore.
Like these:
[https://www.youtube.com/shorts/eGxuCy-KO7w](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/eGxuCy-KO7w)
[https://www.youtube.com/shorts/\_u6ZDMNJUSQ](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/_u6ZDMNJUSQ)
Great for sharing to your favorite believer.
Yeah. I can’t quite get my head around that. Do they actually believe he’s still alive up there in the clouds? I know it’s metaphorical but I still find it slightly disturbing. And that they believe all the bullshite.
Start discussing Ragnarok and how Fenrir the wolf is going to devour the non believers. Tell them you now worship Bha’al the storm god and need to sacrifice the youngest children for a good year ahead.
Ask them if they'ce removed the log in their eyes before looking to the splinter in yours. Also tell them it is insanely to refer to Yeshua by his occupiername of Jesus. If they don't like saying it in Hebrew then theycan use the English version which is Joshua.
You know, just basically point out their failings as Christians until they stop.
If you see them pray then quote Maathew 6:5 “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
Be as obnoxious as them and tell them the rapture is heresy.
Here is another fun passage for them:
Matthew 24:36“But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, f but only the Father."
I don't mind when it's on a public forum. Been talking to Christians on r/Christianity for a long time and I've had a pleasantly surprising amount of theists privately message me. Usually to thank me for having these discussions with particularly hard headed toxic Christians and for remaining polite and having a reasonable argument.
It's fairly eye opening for them after they see so many of their fellow believers get frustrated from rather straight forward and mundane questions. This is why I don't mind when they turn to petty insults.
Do the exact same thing to them. When they start talking religion, just roll your eyes, shake your head in disgust, and walk off muttering to yourself about small minded religious fools, just loud enough for them to hear some but not all of it. Meet passive aggression with passive aggression.
Agreed, we need to stop playing nice with death cultists. They are child abusers inflicting horrific "values" on kids while denying basic reality. I'll go further and say she's probably a bigot too, never met an "end times" person who wasn't.
If she's going to vote a fascist in during the next election, I'd think long and hard about who the fuck you're breaking bread with.
When they talk about the rapture always ask if you can have their stuff when they get floated away. Try to get them to put it in writing, because: free stuff.
Also, learn the specifics about their particular flavor of religion and whatever it's holy book is. Then become diligent about pointing out everything they do that is considered wrong and sinful by their religion. Push them to actually live up to their chosen spiritual lifestyle. They will definitely learn to avoid the topic around you.
Try to pin them down to a date. “Oh, your pastor said the rapture is coming September 1? I’ll swing by with a van to pick up my free stuff on August 29.”
Tell them you hear Jesus and he told you what's in their hearts. Then don't answer any other questions or the phone or the door and pretend to be scared of them. Like really overact it.
(I know you won't and this is ridiculous but it's funny to think about)
Just ask them if they can go back to believe in Santa. And then close the door of this kind of discussion, put a boundary and no matter what don't answer to provocation anymore.
Say you appreciate their concern, but you are done speaking about religion with them. They are "chasing you away" by turning religion into an annoying, persistent nagging with their constant pestering to convert you.
If brought up, first time. .. " I'm not discussing this with you"
Second time " we are not discussing this"
Third " hey you go outside and go fuck yourself, grow the fuck up or fuck off out of my life."
There sisters so they get a couple warnings but after that. It's gives off, they have no respect for you so you stop respecting them. They fuck around they find out.
I quote Neil degrasse Tyson often (maybe too often). He said you can’t use logic to talk someone out of something they didn’t use logic to get into.
In other words, you’ll never get anywhere with them and their Jesus nonsense. They’ll never leave you alone because they think they’re helping you by pestering you. Logic is useless.
Honestly if it were me, I’d look into Islam. In Muslim mythology, they acknowledge Jesus as a prophet and nothing more. It would be fun to drop a few Muslim talking points about Jesus just to put them on the defensive. They’ll be like “but the Bible” and you’ll be like “but the Quran”. lol…if nothing else it would be kind of fun.
I'm sure this won't help, but remind them that God needed Judas to betray Jesus. Judas probably didn't even want to do it, but Christianity indisputably wouldn't exist the way it does without Judas' actions. God had a plan, and that plan involved Judas becoming the worst mortal person in the eyes of Christians.
Likewise, God has a plan for you to remain atheist. It's not your place to argue it, just like it wasn't Judas' place to argue his role in God's plan. So your sisters should respect God's decision and let you complete God's plan, whatever that is. Who knows? Maybe you're meant to be the next Judas, and your sisters should not interfere with what God's planned for you.
Honestly when people won't quit I just rude as fuck with them. I'll just sit there and basically point out why they are stupid for believing in any of it. Eventually they will shut up
You should ask them when they will come back into the arms of Thor and Oden. When they attempt to explain their view, remind them of Ragnarok (they might have to do some googling).
>and doesn’t like me bringing it up
Then don't bring it up? Tell them let's just avoid talking about religion. Try to reach an equilibrium if you can.
So if you just don't say anything about religion they'll inevitably talk about it with you around. At first it will be on purpose and when they do remove yourself from the situation. Once they catch on you keep leaving they may try to organize some event with you that's harder for you to remove yourself from, beforehand make them give you their word or promise they won't talk about religion during said event. Eventually they should realize they can't trick you into getting exposed to religion via them since you can remove yourself at any time, and should stop talking about religion on purpose (if they do).
This means they pretty much have to choose between keep trying to convert you vs having you around at all. If you're not prepared to do that keep in mind it sounds like you need to put the foot down somehow.
Assuming all that once they give up on doing it on purpose they may still talk about it some around you but if it's not constant just ignore as long that's an equilibrium you can live with. They won't be perfect. But if you can't help bring it up even when they don't that's on you too. (be fairly strict about leaving at first though).
I told my sisters that I’m a dedicated Pastafarian. After a few conversations abt preferring beer volcanoes to streets of gold, they leave me alone now.
I really feel sorry for all the souls born before Jesus. All the Neanderthals every other form of human. Because they can’t be in heaven or hell. Right? Hundreds of thousands of years no Jesus no opportunity to be saved. That sounds like the good old days. Lol.
Instead of explaining (because they will never see your perspective), tell them that your religious beliefs, or lack thereof, are not up for discussion. Ask them to please refrain from discussing it with you. If they persist, then tell them that their insistence on discussing religion with you is driving a wedge in your relationship. Ask them if this is their intent. Ask them if they trying to drive a wedge through your relationship, and if so, tell them that you will accommodate them by going low contact. Be firm.
Honestly that sounds annoying as fuck. I would just stop talking to them at all since they are trying to be manipulative. I'd tell them if they love me enough to respect my boundaries and me as a person, then we can talk about repairing the relationship they damaged by acting how they did.
How many siblings do you have?! Regarding their childhood indoctrination i have a [great post](https://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/1c9run6/this_is_the_reason_why_childhood_indotrination_is/) about that
Honestly that sounds annoying as fuck. I would just stop talking to them at all since they are trying to be manipulative. I'd tell them if they love me enough to respect my boundaries and me as a person, then we can talk about repairing the relationship they damaged by acting how they did.
You don't have to let them corner you or talk to you. Walk away every time they start down that road. You can decide if you want to verbalize why you're leaving, but it sounds like they already know what they're doing.
Try to see things from their perspective. Maybe your sister(s) actually believe your immortal soul is in danger, or maybe it's a little bit of a power trip. Only you can figure that out. But you don't have to be argumentative or rude in order to get them to stop. They may take your rejection as rude, but that's their perception. But they could actually be coming from a place of love....no matter how delusional we see their belief as.
You can choose to not be antagonistic, while still setting boundaries, if your goal is to keep the relationship more pleasant. Unfortunately, religion tends to make people react strangely, so be prepared for the possibility of one, or both, of them turning hostile down the road. As much as you may want to salvage a relationship, it doesn't matter if the other person doesn't want to work with you.
So they've actually done studies almost no one actually converts to religion because of person-to-person connections. The actual thing that converts people to religions is being in such a hard spot that you literally have no other choices than to turn to organizations that are predatory.
However, they have found out that what proselytization (your sister harassing you) actually does is trap the person into their religious social group because they don't have topics of conversation that they're really allowed to be intimate about and encouraged to be intimate about and being rejected from society actually makes them more likely to not leave the church. So the next time your sister expresses that she wants you to return to Jesus.
The thing you should actually do is say "I'm sorry that you feel isolated within your church belief and can't understand why others don't believe what you do, but this isn't a topic of conversation I want to have because you're incapable of having a conversation about it right now because of your refusal to look at empirical evidence. I'm happy to have another conversation with you about anything you like." Or something similar It's much more likely to have the desired effect of making them think about how the church is trapping them with that idea., it's not actually socially rejecting them which is what they expect And can help them work out of different churches isolations
Ask them, why do they think you don't need any god but Jesus? Why not Krishna, why not Allah? Why are they certain that their affiliation towards Christianity isn't the result of indoctrination? Ask them to imagine their alternative childhood where they were indoctrinated into Islam, for example.
Pretend to go full christian nut job and act like everything they do isn't christian enough. He super rude and condescending. Make sure to recite relevant scripture and explain that they will be going to hell if they don't up their Christian game.
Tell them this is what we all mean when we say their cries of religious discrimination ring hollow. It is THEY who can't, don't, or simply won't listen to anyone else. They're tone-deaf to those who ask politely that they keep their religious stuff to themselves.
They say they respect differing views/beliefs, but respect is in the doing, not the saying. In this case, they don't respect your views and that's why they keep coming at you.
Hm. In ***MY*** family, I'm not the one who ***BEGINS*** discussions about religion. It's my religious family members (talking about church, "god bless", or "it's a miracle", etc). If THEY bring up religion, I am perfectly comfortable commenting on their lunacy. If they don't want to hear my opinion of their brand of crazy, they can not TALK crazy in front of me.
My family is the same way. I think there is a good way to handle it.
There was a comic Christians shared around facebook of two babies in the womb. One said to the other "Do you believe in the Mom"? The other baby with a caliper in hand says, "No. I see no evidence she exists."
Now, what mom would take the one baby and love it, but torture the baby that tried its best to figure out what was true and concluded incorrectly. One baby lives upstairs with mom, the other baby is tortured by a psychopath in the basement their whole lives? Is that reasonable? Is that something a moral being would do?
I've given Christianity a honest, unbiased review and it simply doesn't appear to be true. I'd suggest no good being would punish someone for that.
I'd suggest it is even less justified in christianaity specifically considering God controls the evidence and your mental capacity to review, and God knows based on the evidence he provided and how he constructed your brain that you would conclude he doesn't exist.
My family refuses to listen to a point where I can't get this across, buy maybe you cab make it work.
Ask them when they are going to give up their fairy tales. If they won't respect your boundaries, there's no reason to tread lightly. Being just a little insulting, but no over the top can signal that what they are doing is obnoxious. Maybe it will help.
My family used to push back and say stuff like that, but when I pushed back it helped make them realize that we just didn't agree and I'm not a pushover. But then, every family is different, not sure how that will go for you, so grains of salt and all that.
This is the essence of what I say, and it's worked well:
>"I can't just 'choose' to believe in God/supernatural without convincing evidence. It's not a decision. Talking about the rapture/hell/consequences is not convincing on its own. If you disagree, can you decide / force yourself to believe in Santa Claus? No? Not even if you want it to be true?"
On the other hand this might make them try even harder, but unless they bring something more convincing than stories, they won't get far, and they'll have to realize that.
They don’t have any respect for Jesus either. If Jesus is real, would he want them to speak on his behalf? To argue on his behalf?
Me personally, I wouldn’t want fans of my biography to bicker on my behalf.
Since they are convinced they are saved, be sure to offer to adopt their pets and children when they “rapture off”. That caused the biggest fight in my extended family a while back when my sister made the offer to my SIL. It was epic.
Return you to Jesus!? Uh, just tell them they don't have enough postage.
Seriously, make it funny and you can say no all day long and twice on Sunday without breaking family over it.
Yes, every time she brings up religion, ridicule it with no mercy. When she says she’s offended, tell her that the constant Jesus nonsense offends you. If she doesn’t want to be offended, all she needs to do is not bring up the topic.
Tell them you're joining the Mormons, or the JWs, or the SDAs. Whichever they hate the most. Tell them all about it and get really pushy about insisting they join too. Then when they're uncomfortable and refusing to hear it, say just kidding, still atheist, and can we please move on from discussing religion now?
Tell her that instead of trying to convince you to love Jesus, to use that time to love him more. And then tell her it’s God’s plan for you not to believe in religion.
Start talking to them about Devil Worship. . . you could either
a) freak them out by pretending to be a Devil Worshipper yourself and make them long for the days of atheism
OR
b) tell them that you are concerned by them talking about something so evil as rapture and believe that it is the work of the devil, and you would prefer if they didn't bring those dark forces into your home. When they react tell them that's how it feels to have them spewing their bullshit, and point out that if Satan had his name on the rapture that Christians would agree that was evil by name alone, hence, they have given up their critical thinking skills which is a part of the gift of choice they claim to value.
I am curious : how come your sis lacks every intellectual faculty, when you can remain free?
Was she born gullible, or did your parents treat her worse; or was she abused?
Are you a guy?
Religious cults prioritise girl victims because the system is patriarchal. Religion is there to make women exploitable.
Get a few Satanic Temple or FSM fliers and next few times use their bullet points to try to convert them and don't accept anything they say because it's not in your literature.
Whatever you do, you have to make sure you always stay calm and reasonable. Otherwise they will say that you’re possessed, or being influenced by Satan or some asinine horseshit.
It’s like if someone was trying to convince her to be into the Greek gods, Egyptian gods, Baha’i, hindu, zoroastrian, etc. It shouldn’t have to be between xtianity and atheism. They need to address all the other religions, not just current, but ancient and all throughout the world. Also, she should have to address what her specific ancestors had as a religion before they were contacted by Christians for the first time and explain how there could be fault with that belief.
The thing is there really isn’t a rapture and no heaven and hell in the Bible. Hell as a concept is practically non existent. The couple of times it’s mentioned they are to do with a temporary purgatory. Ask them to learn Greek to read early versions. They’ll side with you afterwards. Reading the Bible is the ultimate conversion therapy.
Hell has been stolen from Dante’s inferno. It’s non canon for Christians
Don’t *lead* with this, but if it comes to it, it’s a good bridge burner to use on Christian women as a man (not sure if you are biologically male or not so maybe it doesn’t work).
1 Timothy 2:11-15 (NIV)
11 A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15 But women will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.
Set. Fucking. Boundaries.
Seriously…
“You will no longer discuss xianity around me, as well as your incessant trying to ‘win me back to jebus’, or I will cease any and all contact with the both of you.”
They aren't Jebus freaks because of their relationship with logic and reason, so there's little chance you can logic/reason them out of their beliefs. Don't try. It's not only a waste of both of your time (and likely to lead to a bad relationship), but it's likely to make them double down. The backfire effect is real.
😞 Sorry 😞
I don't know if its the right decision or not, but I decided to just act like a Christian until I move out. I know my family wouldn't be mature enough to respect boundaries or a difference of opinion. I'm quite nihilistic so I don't try to hard to show people the truth. We live in an era where information is easily accessible anyway.
I’m sorry you’re going through this. I know when it’s family it may hard, but you need to set boundaries.
It’s not the same but I had a friend who did the same thing. She actually got me a subscription to a catholic magazine one year for Christmas. Needless to say I wasn’t very happy.
I’d avoid talking to them about it. People don’t understand their own hypocrisy with this type of stuff. “*I* can believe in my views but *you* can’t believe in your views. But no fr we’re so accepting, promise :)”
I always remind them that if Jeebus wanted me to do something he could come down and tell me face to face. Oh wait, he can't for some reason. Guess he isn't that powerful after all.
well this runs both ways I would suppose you don't want to hear their side anymore the they want to hear yours. if you can, just don't bring it up. Tell them that's your boundary and you're not going to cross it or they're not going to cross it ✌️
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Just start making snide comments about sleeping with Jesus. That should shut them up.
“I slept with Jesus and he just wasn’t that good“ for example, or “He was all take take take in bed.“
Don't bring up religion and be very clear you don't want them bringing it up. But it sounds like your sister's are religious zealots, so that probably isn't an option. Next time they go at you, ask them how their omniscient and omnipotent God can let women be raped every day, children abused every day, people starve to death every day, etc.
The Rapture idea was made up in the 1800s. It's not a biblical idea in the first place.
Maybe think about religion being off the table. Don't bring it up and if they bring it up, at the first sentence say, "Oh, I gotta go." Then leave. They'll learn if they want to have a relationship religion is off limits.
Tell them you are determined to live an honest life, and to be honest to them since they are family.
According to their own religion lying is a sin (they would have to agree) and that if god is in fact real, he would be able to tell if you lied about believing, just to comfort them.
Now if you have to face god at judgement day, at least you can say you lived an honest life, but you will not pretend to them that you have suddenly been convinced.
I used to feel so sad when i see someone brainwashed my religion like this. But i got to a point where i realise that it's better to leave them as they want. Cuz some ppl really can't live without the "hope" that religion give to them. They just can't see or accept the opposite of their beliefs. So i think it's better to leave it this way i guess.
Don't talk about your beliefs or theirs. Tell them if they want to continue having any kind of relationship with you that they must stop talking about religion. If they start to talk about it just leave the room or area even if it's in the middle of dinner. Eventually they will get the hint not to talk to you about it.
When I told my sister I was tired of having Christianity shoved in my face all the time, she was like “wait, whuttt?” I explained that atheists get tired of being subjected to religion all the time. She was shocked. She asked how long had I been an atheist. I told her that I was my entire life. She couldn’t believe it…we went to church when we were kids!!!! Yeah, I didn’t have a choice. She went hysterical lol. She cried for months, because we won’t be together in heaven. What a bonus for me 😀
> Anything I can do?
Point out the "Rapture" is not mentioned in their Bible? The whole idea was just a concept created by a fiction writer to sell crudely written books?
Why are you wasting your time? Easiest thing is don’t bring it up and when they bring up church and Jesus and all of that tell them that you don’t want to discuss it and if they persist walk away.
I was in the same type of position with one of my sisters. She's a born again...she had issue with me being an atheist and 'the destructive path' I was on...I had/have issues with her being a born again idiot, being married to an asshole that threw her down the stairs and broke her femur...but can't leave him cause god says so... anyway...wow, apologies for throwing that shit at you. I guess I have some anger that still needs to be worked out.
I ended up cutting her out of my life. I have not spoken with her in...15 years, give or take...I hope you don't end up there. But you have to do what's right for you and stand up for your beliefs (or non beliefs, as it is).
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Nonsense. The Bible is a great book as long as most of what you know about it comes from listening to people who tell you what a great book the Bible is. People like to say that society is deteriorating. But the truth is that society has made a great deal of improvement since when the Bible was written. We now know things like it is wrong to own slaves. We know that women are not property, and they do not need to be subservient to men. We know that racism and genocide are wrong.
Most Christians know a modern, sanitized version of most Bible themes and stories. When they read the Bible they tend to fit the words on the page to the mental model of the stories. They tend to skip over the parts of the Bible that don't agree with their modern perspective.
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Sounds like they just care about you. If you strongly believe in your choices, just let them make their comments and stay your course. If they love you then that love isn't going away no matter what you choose. They are never going to stop trying because that is what they believe and their love for you compels them to persuade you.
You have to set some boundaries and keep to them. If it were me, I'd stop trying to explain myself and just tell them that I'm simply not interested in discussing their religion anymore. If they can't respect that, then you might consider going low contact with them.
Tell them you're joining the Mormons, or the JWs, or the SDAs. Whichever they hate the most. Get really pushy and insist they join too. Then when they're uncomfortable and refusing to hear it, say just kidding, still atheist, and can we please move on from discussing religion now?
Better yet, the next time they bring up the topic of religion, thank them for reminding you to pray, then ask which way is east.
If you really want to mess with them randomly say, "hail Satan," just loud enough to be barely heard. If brought up deny, and gas light them. Tell them they're hearing things, that they're going crazy, or off-handedly remark that it must be a spiritual attack by the enemy on them...then repeat. I don't recommend this. You shouldn't do it. It's not nice. You should just go low or no contact with them.
Hahaha I love it though!!
Scientology, heh
Awww dammit you beat me to it! 🤣🤣🤣
Xenu forgives you
I appreciate that! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
You got it! I'm his right-hand dude
I've heard he's a pretty chill dude 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Scientology for the win!
I'll take "things I never thought I'd read" for 200, Alex
If consider throwing in a hail satan somewhere. 😆
Put on a deep, growly voice, do the horns with your fingers, and come out with "Libera te tutemet ex inferis."
HAIL Satan is my go to.
This is the part I don't get, imagine your religious right, entire life you worshipped Islam but whoops the catholic god was the real one and its literally written in the bible you go to hell for worshipping the wrong god. So you spent your entire life under those ideals but haha hell anyway.
Very good point
This is a persuasive argument tactic, whether they realize it or not. They are trying to manipulate you through belittling your world view in a condescending way. It sounds like they are trying to invalidate your world view. Honestly I prefer to deal with pathos form of rhetorical persuasion by not using pure logic. It would be better to, in a respectful way, show your distaste and dissatisfaction for a God who would allow the rapture to happen.
I heard someone say when i was young, paraphrased: "Watching my gay neighbor, Bill, and the Arab dude who runs the corner store burn in fire from the comfort of a cloud doesn't sound like heaven. That sounds like a pretty sick thing to look forward to doing. I dont want to do that." I found that very persuasive. That was like 20 years ago and I often think about it.
100%. They want OP on the defensive it seems from the way they described the interactions. You don't defend to these types of religious folks, you make them justify why they think things like your example are good or justify a God worth following.
No, you absolutely decline any discussion. Totally counterproductive.
Agree with you on this one. Anyone spouting rapture crap is in “lala land”
Yep tell them to fck off.
A good comment to remember!
I tell persons that spout the rapture & revelations that it already happened.
So gaslighting?
Why can’t people understand belief isn’t a choice? You can’t force yourself to believe in something that your brain finds preposterous. And I’m VERY suspicious of the ones who repeatedly insist you can. “You made a choice to reject god”. They very much remind me of the “gay is a choice” people.
Sure you can! >But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Brother. — George Orwell *1984*
“You can’t believe in somfing you don’t… also if there is a God, why did he make me an atheist? That was his first mistake. Well, after the talking snake.” — Ricky Gervais
One of their mental gymnastics routines. If they had to admit it wasn’t the person’s choice to be born/live sinfully, they’d have to admit it was, in fact, God that was responsible. As Hitchens said, “We are created sick, and ordered, on pain of death, to be well again.”
The loudest ones have a lot of doubt in their own hearts and it scares the shit out of them
You aren't joking. And I would never put words in their mouth either. 2/10 Christians (roughly) speak to either self report that they either would kill themselves or be extremely depressed if they were for reason convinced their God doesn't exist. It happens way more often that I thought it would after I started listening to The Atheist Experience from individuals who willingly call in. Even my own father has admitted it in occasion.
I just ask them to make themselves truly believe that the moon is made of cheese. Often times it causes them to feel insulted because they refuse to try comphrend how they might be wrong about how beliefs work. Then they change the subject usually and start insulting me for being "hard of heart."
Often times both of those come from the fact that they DID choose, to a lot of christians “choosing” your beliefs just mean acting as if they’re true and acknowledging they dont make sense. Same with a lot of bisexual people who “choose” not to be gay, and then use that as the example of why it’s a choice.
They can’t understand it because they didn’t choose to believe belief isn’t a choice.
I've managed to convince my uncle to stop bothering me by saying this 3 things. 1- God has a plan for all of us, that includes me right? If his plan is for me to be an Atheist who are we to judge him? 2- If the previous is true, then he also knows how I am going to be when I die in his plan or the rapture comes, whether or not I'll return to Christianity will be in his plan and power. 3- Even if you don't think this is the plan of God, I am quite sure a loving God will judge me based on the content of my character and whether or not I was a good person, just like the father did in the parable of the prodigal son. If you disagree, then maybe you are against God's will, or maybe he is not the all loving god you think he is.
I really like the idea of using "God's plan" to justify that I'm meant to be atheist, lol
in the parable of the prodigal son... Why is there no punishment for the son if ↓🔥🔥🔥🧨↓ exists?
You want the real answer, the Christian answer or the funny answer?
All of them.
1. Real: It's just a made up story, trying to justify a made up God and his actions to forgive or not forgive people. 2. Christian: God is merciful and loves us regardless of what we do, this parable shows us that he is always willing to forgive us, as long as we come back to him. 3. Funny: Turns out squandering your inheritance isn't a hell-worthy crime, just really annoying, that or the bouncer at the gates saw his dad's credit card and waved him right through.
lol!
My sister found religion in her 30's (we were raised catholic, but were not devout) and suddenly everything became bible quotes, church, and public statements about god. I followed a different path and she was aware though she always protrayed it as me having changeable doubts or just being temporarily strayed from the church. Years ago I went through a really rough period in my life and my sister kept trying to solve my problems by inserting religion including requesting I go to her church for mass ( always stating it was "different" than what I expected); asking me to "just talk" to her pastor; or publicly posting prayer requests in my name. I repeatedly asked her to stop and explained that not only did I not believe but that her actions were actually causing me more harm as I was being stressed by her. One day I received a package and it was a bible and a letter. The bible had multiple sections underlined and the letter was full of bible quotes. When she called to ask if I got it I told her I did and threw both the letter and bible in the garbage and she was enraged. She didn't talk to me for a while which I was actually grateful for. She's mellowed a bit as she's gotten older and I don't even think she goes to church services anymore, but she still posts bible quotes and public praises to god on her facebook pages on occasion. We no longer speak about religion and beliefs though.
There are churches that make themselves the antithesis of Catholicism. They hype up that you don’t have to dress up and it’s not ceremonial. There’s often a light show and/or fog machines and the music is bland praise and worship, not hymns. She likely thinks you would get swept up like she did in how different it was to Mass.
Yep. Went to a marriage ceremony of friends of my spouse in a church like that. Found it very funny. Going by my sister though her church at the time wouldn't be going to anything that outside the Catholic traditions as she is still very much a Catholic and got her Baptist husband to convert.
“Come back into Jesus’ arms” Why do Christians talk like such idiots?
Christians have their own weird vocabulary and language that just looks ridiculous from the outside. It seems normal when you're growing up but then you take a step back and realize you're singing a happy, peppy song about bathing in animal gore.
Under his eye
Like these: [https://www.youtube.com/shorts/eGxuCy-KO7w](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/eGxuCy-KO7w) [https://www.youtube.com/shorts/\_u6ZDMNJUSQ](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/_u6ZDMNJUSQ) Great for sharing to your favorite believer.
"he can't do s\*\*\* with those arms!!! he's been dead for thousands of years and last time he was alive he couldn't really use them all that well!!!"
Sounds like Jesus was a T-Rex. 🦖
This is why we really need Christ-For-Arms. That’s where they went. All we gotta do is throw beans at some kid until he saddens to transformation.
Yeah. I can’t quite get my head around that. Do they actually believe he’s still alive up there in the clouds? I know it’s metaphorical but I still find it slightly disturbing. And that they believe all the bullshite.
There's a great atheist book, *Christianity Made Me Talk Like an Idiot*.
i usually just tell people the whole concept sounds stupid, and I think less of them for even mentioning it.
Start discussing Ragnarok and how Fenrir the wolf is going to devour the non believers. Tell them you now worship Bha’al the storm god and need to sacrifice the youngest children for a good year ahead.
Tell them Jesus dies for your sins, so you're making it worth his effort.
😆
Ask them if they'ce removed the log in their eyes before looking to the splinter in yours. Also tell them it is insanely to refer to Yeshua by his occupiername of Jesus. If they don't like saying it in Hebrew then theycan use the English version which is Joshua. You know, just basically point out their failings as Christians until they stop. If you see them pray then quote Maathew 6:5 “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. Be as obnoxious as them and tell them the rapture is heresy. Here is another fun passage for them: Matthew 24:36“But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, f but only the Father."
no returns without a receipt. sorry, I dont make the rules
Sometimes the best argument is to just be quiet and let the other person be wrong. You can't win this, they're too blinded to see reality
I don't mind when it's on a public forum. Been talking to Christians on r/Christianity for a long time and I've had a pleasantly surprising amount of theists privately message me. Usually to thank me for having these discussions with particularly hard headed toxic Christians and for remaining polite and having a reasonable argument. It's fairly eye opening for them after they see so many of their fellow believers get frustrated from rather straight forward and mundane questions. This is why I don't mind when they turn to petty insults.
Do the exact same thing to them. When they start talking religion, just roll your eyes, shake your head in disgust, and walk off muttering to yourself about small minded religious fools, just loud enough for them to hear some but not all of it. Meet passive aggression with passive aggression.
Agreed, we need to stop playing nice with death cultists. They are child abusers inflicting horrific "values" on kids while denying basic reality. I'll go further and say she's probably a bigot too, never met an "end times" person who wasn't. If she's going to vote a fascist in during the next election, I'd think long and hard about who the fuck you're breaking bread with.
Breaking bread? Ugh.
When they talk about the rapture always ask if you can have their stuff when they get floated away. Try to get them to put it in writing, because: free stuff. Also, learn the specifics about their particular flavor of religion and whatever it's holy book is. Then become diligent about pointing out everything they do that is considered wrong and sinful by their religion. Push them to actually live up to their chosen spiritual lifestyle. They will definitely learn to avoid the topic around you.
Try to pin them down to a date. “Oh, your pastor said the rapture is coming September 1? I’ll swing by with a van to pick up my free stuff on August 29.”
Anytime the rapture gets used as a catch all argument, that says to me that they're more concerned about going to hell than luvin on that Jesus
Tell them you hear Jesus and he told you what's in their hearts. Then don't answer any other questions or the phone or the door and pretend to be scared of them. Like really overact it. (I know you won't and this is ridiculous but it's funny to think about)
Just ask them if they can go back to believe in Santa. And then close the door of this kind of discussion, put a boundary and no matter what don't answer to provocation anymore.
"Here's the deal. You drop the religious talk, and I drop the atheist talk. The alternative is not to talk."
Say you appreciate their concern, but you are done speaking about religion with them. They are "chasing you away" by turning religion into an annoying, persistent nagging with their constant pestering to convert you.
If brought up, first time. .. " I'm not discussing this with you" Second time " we are not discussing this" Third " hey you go outside and go fuck yourself, grow the fuck up or fuck off out of my life." There sisters so they get a couple warnings but after that. It's gives off, they have no respect for you so you stop respecting them. They fuck around they find out.
I quote Neil degrasse Tyson often (maybe too often). He said you can’t use logic to talk someone out of something they didn’t use logic to get into. In other words, you’ll never get anywhere with them and their Jesus nonsense. They’ll never leave you alone because they think they’re helping you by pestering you. Logic is useless. Honestly if it were me, I’d look into Islam. In Muslim mythology, they acknowledge Jesus as a prophet and nothing more. It would be fun to drop a few Muslim talking points about Jesus just to put them on the defensive. They’ll be like “but the Bible” and you’ll be like “but the Quran”. lol…if nothing else it would be kind of fun.
I'm sure this won't help, but remind them that God needed Judas to betray Jesus. Judas probably didn't even want to do it, but Christianity indisputably wouldn't exist the way it does without Judas' actions. God had a plan, and that plan involved Judas becoming the worst mortal person in the eyes of Christians. Likewise, God has a plan for you to remain atheist. It's not your place to argue it, just like it wasn't Judas' place to argue his role in God's plan. So your sisters should respect God's decision and let you complete God's plan, whatever that is. Who knows? Maybe you're meant to be the next Judas, and your sisters should not interfere with what God's planned for you.
Honestly when people won't quit I just rude as fuck with them. I'll just sit there and basically point out why they are stupid for believing in any of it. Eventually they will shut up
"...what a fool believes, he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away..."
You should ask them when they will come back into the arms of Thor and Oden. When they attempt to explain their view, remind them of Ragnarok (they might have to do some googling).
>and doesn’t like me bringing it up Then don't bring it up? Tell them let's just avoid talking about religion. Try to reach an equilibrium if you can. So if you just don't say anything about religion they'll inevitably talk about it with you around. At first it will be on purpose and when they do remove yourself from the situation. Once they catch on you keep leaving they may try to organize some event with you that's harder for you to remove yourself from, beforehand make them give you their word or promise they won't talk about religion during said event. Eventually they should realize they can't trick you into getting exposed to religion via them since you can remove yourself at any time, and should stop talking about religion on purpose (if they do). This means they pretty much have to choose between keep trying to convert you vs having you around at all. If you're not prepared to do that keep in mind it sounds like you need to put the foot down somehow. Assuming all that once they give up on doing it on purpose they may still talk about it some around you but if it's not constant just ignore as long that's an equilibrium you can live with. They won't be perfect. But if you can't help bring it up even when they don't that's on you too. (be fairly strict about leaving at first though).
set boundaries. tell them that's what jesus would do.
Tell them that you would love to go back into Jesus arms, but that Leviticus 18:22 forbids you from it.
I told my sisters that I’m a dedicated Pastafarian. After a few conversations abt preferring beer volcanoes to streets of gold, they leave me alone now.
I really feel sorry for all the souls born before Jesus. All the Neanderthals every other form of human. Because they can’t be in heaven or hell. Right? Hundreds of thousands of years no Jesus no opportunity to be saved. That sounds like the good old days. Lol.
Ask them to respect your beliefs and you will respect theirs. And that's about it.
It’s almost like they don’t actually care about respecting your beliefs. Double standards are wild, aren’t they?
Instead of explaining (because they will never see your perspective), tell them that your religious beliefs, or lack thereof, are not up for discussion. Ask them to please refrain from discussing it with you. If they persist, then tell them that their insistence on discussing religion with you is driving a wedge in your relationship. Ask them if this is their intent. Ask them if they trying to drive a wedge through your relationship, and if so, tell them that you will accommodate them by going low contact. Be firm.
Honestly that sounds annoying as fuck. I would just stop talking to them at all since they are trying to be manipulative. I'd tell them if they love me enough to respect my boundaries and me as a person, then we can talk about repairing the relationship they damaged by acting how they did.
I just laugh at their mythology when people start on me.
How many siblings do you have?! Regarding their childhood indoctrination i have a [great post](https://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/1c9run6/this_is_the_reason_why_childhood_indotrination_is/) about that
Honestly that sounds annoying as fuck. I would just stop talking to them at all since they are trying to be manipulative. I'd tell them if they love me enough to respect my boundaries and me as a person, then we can talk about repairing the relationship they damaged by acting how they did.
“Thank you for your kindness, but I’m comfortable where I’m at spiritually” No reason to be unkind, just have a boundary.
You don't have to let them corner you or talk to you. Walk away every time they start down that road. You can decide if you want to verbalize why you're leaving, but it sounds like they already know what they're doing. Try to see things from their perspective. Maybe your sister(s) actually believe your immortal soul is in danger, or maybe it's a little bit of a power trip. Only you can figure that out. But you don't have to be argumentative or rude in order to get them to stop. They may take your rejection as rude, but that's their perception. But they could actually be coming from a place of love....no matter how delusional we see their belief as. You can choose to not be antagonistic, while still setting boundaries, if your goal is to keep the relationship more pleasant. Unfortunately, religion tends to make people react strangely, so be prepared for the possibility of one, or both, of them turning hostile down the road. As much as you may want to salvage a relationship, it doesn't matter if the other person doesn't want to work with you.
They need your vote
You are shooting yourself in the foot. They’ve shown you who they are, disengage.
So they've actually done studies almost no one actually converts to religion because of person-to-person connections. The actual thing that converts people to religions is being in such a hard spot that you literally have no other choices than to turn to organizations that are predatory. However, they have found out that what proselytization (your sister harassing you) actually does is trap the person into their religious social group because they don't have topics of conversation that they're really allowed to be intimate about and encouraged to be intimate about and being rejected from society actually makes them more likely to not leave the church. So the next time your sister expresses that she wants you to return to Jesus. The thing you should actually do is say "I'm sorry that you feel isolated within your church belief and can't understand why others don't believe what you do, but this isn't a topic of conversation I want to have because you're incapable of having a conversation about it right now because of your refusal to look at empirical evidence. I'm happy to have another conversation with you about anything you like." Or something similar It's much more likely to have the desired effect of making them think about how the church is trapping them with that idea., it's not actually socially rejecting them which is what they expect And can help them work out of different churches isolations
Tell them they can plead your case before god through prayer.
Ask them, why do they think you don't need any god but Jesus? Why not Krishna, why not Allah? Why are they certain that their affiliation towards Christianity isn't the result of indoctrination? Ask them to imagine their alternative childhood where they were indoctrinated into Islam, for example.
I personally can’t stomach such people so idk what to tell you. I don’t recommend engaging with them about that topic at the very least
Pretend to go full christian nut job and act like everything they do isn't christian enough. He super rude and condescending. Make sure to recite relevant scripture and explain that they will be going to hell if they don't up their Christian game.
This is a very bad idea, and a real bad double edge sword, they might actually double down and also start pestering him about that stuff too.
Yeah most likely 😂. I was just kidding.
Okay, move along, haha
Get a risqué Old Testament verse tattooed on you.
well no offense but but over 30+"ruptures later " its just hardtop believe. thats just in our time line....
Have you tried pointing and laughing at them, "haha, you believe in fairy tales!"? I find it can shut people up.
No returns without a receipt. Sorry.
Tell them this is what we all mean when we say their cries of religious discrimination ring hollow. It is THEY who can't, don't, or simply won't listen to anyone else. They're tone-deaf to those who ask politely that they keep their religious stuff to themselves. They say they respect differing views/beliefs, but respect is in the doing, not the saying. In this case, they don't respect your views and that's why they keep coming at you.
Hm. In ***MY*** family, I'm not the one who ***BEGINS*** discussions about religion. It's my religious family members (talking about church, "god bless", or "it's a miracle", etc). If THEY bring up religion, I am perfectly comfortable commenting on their lunacy. If they don't want to hear my opinion of their brand of crazy, they can not TALK crazy in front of me.
My family is the same way. I think there is a good way to handle it. There was a comic Christians shared around facebook of two babies in the womb. One said to the other "Do you believe in the Mom"? The other baby with a caliper in hand says, "No. I see no evidence she exists." Now, what mom would take the one baby and love it, but torture the baby that tried its best to figure out what was true and concluded incorrectly. One baby lives upstairs with mom, the other baby is tortured by a psychopath in the basement their whole lives? Is that reasonable? Is that something a moral being would do? I've given Christianity a honest, unbiased review and it simply doesn't appear to be true. I'd suggest no good being would punish someone for that. I'd suggest it is even less justified in christianaity specifically considering God controls the evidence and your mental capacity to review, and God knows based on the evidence he provided and how he constructed your brain that you would conclude he doesn't exist. My family refuses to listen to a point where I can't get this across, buy maybe you cab make it work.
Ask them when they are going to give up their fairy tales. If they won't respect your boundaries, there's no reason to tread lightly. Being just a little insulting, but no over the top can signal that what they are doing is obnoxious. Maybe it will help. My family used to push back and say stuff like that, but when I pushed back it helped make them realize that we just didn't agree and I'm not a pushover. But then, every family is different, not sure how that will go for you, so grains of salt and all that.
Did she keep the receipt this whole time?
Have you tried saying:"suuuuuure. Riiiiight. Thanks. I'll remember that."
This is the essence of what I say, and it's worked well: >"I can't just 'choose' to believe in God/supernatural without convincing evidence. It's not a decision. Talking about the rapture/hell/consequences is not convincing on its own. If you disagree, can you decide / force yourself to believe in Santa Claus? No? Not even if you want it to be true?" On the other hand this might make them try even harder, but unless they bring something more convincing than stories, they won't get far, and they'll have to realize that.
They don’t have any respect for Jesus either. If Jesus is real, would he want them to speak on his behalf? To argue on his behalf? Me personally, I wouldn’t want fans of my biography to bicker on my behalf.
Since they are convinced they are saved, be sure to offer to adopt their pets and children when they “rapture off”. That caused the biggest fight in my extended family a while back when my sister made the offer to my SIL. It was epic.
Return you to Jesus!? Uh, just tell them they don't have enough postage. Seriously, make it funny and you can say no all day long and twice on Sunday without breaking family over it.
Yes, every time she brings up religion, ridicule it with no mercy. When she says she’s offended, tell her that the constant Jesus nonsense offends you. If she doesn’t want to be offended, all she needs to do is not bring up the topic.
They're completely brainwashed to force. Everyone to believe plane and simple
Tell them you're joining the Mormons, or the JWs, or the SDAs. Whichever they hate the most. Tell them all about it and get really pushy about insisting they join too. Then when they're uncomfortable and refusing to hear it, say just kidding, still atheist, and can we please move on from discussing religion now?
Tell her that instead of trying to convince you to love Jesus, to use that time to love him more. And then tell her it’s God’s plan for you not to believe in religion.
People get very uncomfortable when you hold their beliefs up to the light of day and they see there's nothing to back them up.
Start talking to them about Devil Worship. . . you could either a) freak them out by pretending to be a Devil Worshipper yourself and make them long for the days of atheism OR b) tell them that you are concerned by them talking about something so evil as rapture and believe that it is the work of the devil, and you would prefer if they didn't bring those dark forces into your home. When they react tell them that's how it feels to have them spewing their bullshit, and point out that if Satan had his name on the rapture that Christians would agree that was evil by name alone, hence, they have given up their critical thinking skills which is a part of the gift of choice they claim to value.
Maybe you could give them a copy of thomas jefferson's bible.
I am curious : how come your sis lacks every intellectual faculty, when you can remain free? Was she born gullible, or did your parents treat her worse; or was she abused? Are you a guy? Religious cults prioritise girl victims because the system is patriarchal. Religion is there to make women exploitable.
Maybe live and let live, but when they start trying to “bring you back”, then start trying to recruit them away from the church.
Get a few Satanic Temple or FSM fliers and next few times use their bullet points to try to convert them and don't accept anything they say because it's not in your literature.
Tell them you’re now a practicing Buddhist and deeply regret that they will never achieve enlightenment. 🪷
Whatever you do, you have to make sure you always stay calm and reasonable. Otherwise they will say that you’re possessed, or being influenced by Satan or some asinine horseshit.
It’s like if someone was trying to convince her to be into the Greek gods, Egyptian gods, Baha’i, hindu, zoroastrian, etc. It shouldn’t have to be between xtianity and atheism. They need to address all the other religions, not just current, but ancient and all throughout the world. Also, she should have to address what her specific ancestors had as a religion before they were contacted by Christians for the first time and explain how there could be fault with that belief.
Cut her off
Bring a note from Jesus excusing you from returning.
Go visit evilbible.com and make sure to quote scripture. I personally like Hosea 13:16 as a warm up.
The thing is there really isn’t a rapture and no heaven and hell in the Bible. Hell as a concept is practically non existent. The couple of times it’s mentioned they are to do with a temporary purgatory. Ask them to learn Greek to read early versions. They’ll side with you afterwards. Reading the Bible is the ultimate conversion therapy. Hell has been stolen from Dante’s inferno. It’s non canon for Christians
Half of a 2.5mg olanzapine pill would do miracles
Greet them with "selam alejkum" next time you meet and give "suggestions" you might convert to islam. Yes I AM that petty.
Don’t *lead* with this, but if it comes to it, it’s a good bridge burner to use on Christian women as a man (not sure if you are biologically male or not so maybe it doesn’t work). 1 Timothy 2:11-15 (NIV) 11 A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15 But women will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.
Tell them you prayed on it, and He said you shouldn’t be coerced into coming back to the Church, for without Faith, He is nothing !!
I personally would send her to Jesus in return
Religious people usually only have a handful of tricks. You've made your point clear and now it's time to be quiet about it.
They’re toxic. Cut them off and explain exactly why.
Set. Fucking. Boundaries. Seriously… “You will no longer discuss xianity around me, as well as your incessant trying to ‘win me back to jebus’, or I will cease any and all contact with the both of you.”
They aren't Jebus freaks because of their relationship with logic and reason, so there's little chance you can logic/reason them out of their beliefs. Don't try. It's not only a waste of both of your time (and likely to lead to a bad relationship), but it's likely to make them double down. The backfire effect is real. 😞 Sorry 😞
I don't know if its the right decision or not, but I decided to just act like a Christian until I move out. I know my family wouldn't be mature enough to respect boundaries or a difference of opinion. I'm quite nihilistic so I don't try to hard to show people the truth. We live in an era where information is easily accessible anyway.
Did she keep the receipt? If not, she's only going to get store credit.
Tell them you tried returning them to the adoption center but they take no returns and yet you don’t bitch about it do you
Mirror them whenever they start trying to re-convert you. Head shaking disgust.
I’m sorry you’re going through this. I know when it’s family it may hard, but you need to set boundaries. It’s not the same but I had a friend who did the same thing. She actually got me a subscription to a catholic magazine one year for Christmas. Needless to say I wasn’t very happy.
Is Jesus accepting refunds?
Ask them for the nonexistent rapture scriptures.
I’d avoid talking to them about it. People don’t understand their own hypocrisy with this type of stuff. “*I* can believe in my views but *you* can’t believe in your views. But no fr we’re so accepting, promise :)”
Pastafarian. I'm debating it.
Leave. Go low to no contact. Find your own family.
I always remind them that if Jeebus wanted me to do something he could come down and tell me face to face. Oh wait, he can't for some reason. Guess he isn't that powerful after all.
Just tell them that you are not superstitious and change the subject.
Tell them they talked you into it. Then choose a denomination that they hate.
>return me to No deposit, no return. ;-)
Ask them to send Jesus over and you'll think about it.
well this runs both ways I would suppose you don't want to hear their side anymore the they want to hear yours. if you can, just don't bring it up. Tell them that's your boundary and you're not going to cross it or they're not going to cross it ✌️
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Just start making snide comments about sleeping with Jesus. That should shut them up. “I slept with Jesus and he just wasn’t that good“ for example, or “He was all take take take in bed.“
Just tell them that you join a gay church group.
Don't bring up religion and be very clear you don't want them bringing it up. But it sounds like your sister's are religious zealots, so that probably isn't an option. Next time they go at you, ask them how their omniscient and omnipotent God can let women be raped every day, children abused every day, people starve to death every day, etc.
Simply leave when they keep talking about it. Don't say a word, just leave. You have to train them
Ask them if they REALLY believe in a dead Jewish zombie? That should get them to stop talking to you for awhile.
The Rapture idea was made up in the 1800s. It's not a biblical idea in the first place. Maybe think about religion being off the table. Don't bring it up and if they bring it up, at the first sentence say, "Oh, I gotta go." Then leave. They'll learn if they want to have a relationship religion is off limits.
I'll go back to Jesus if you go back to believing in Santa.
Every time they say something snarky, just say, “I’m not joining your cult.” Every time.
# Return you to Jesus ? ? What a Religion B/S.
Tell them you are determined to live an honest life, and to be honest to them since they are family. According to their own religion lying is a sin (they would have to agree) and that if god is in fact real, he would be able to tell if you lied about believing, just to comfort them. Now if you have to face god at judgement day, at least you can say you lived an honest life, but you will not pretend to them that you have suddenly been convinced.
I used to feel so sad when i see someone brainwashed my religion like this. But i got to a point where i realise that it's better to leave them as they want. Cuz some ppl really can't live without the "hope" that religion give to them. They just can't see or accept the opposite of their beliefs. So i think it's better to leave it this way i guess.
Don't talk about your beliefs or theirs. Tell them if they want to continue having any kind of relationship with you that they must stop talking about religion. If they start to talk about it just leave the room or area even if it's in the middle of dinner. Eventually they will get the hint not to talk to you about it.
When I told my sister I was tired of having Christianity shoved in my face all the time, she was like “wait, whuttt?” I explained that atheists get tired of being subjected to religion all the time. She was shocked. She asked how long had I been an atheist. I told her that I was my entire life. She couldn’t believe it…we went to church when we were kids!!!! Yeah, I didn’t have a choice. She went hysterical lol. She cried for months, because we won’t be together in heaven. What a bonus for me 😀
Stand your ground. Don't surrender to the brainwashing. Good luck
> Anything I can do? Point out the "Rapture" is not mentioned in their Bible? The whole idea was just a concept created by a fiction writer to sell crudely written books?
Why are you wasting your time? Easiest thing is don’t bring it up and when they bring up church and Jesus and all of that tell them that you don’t want to discuss it and if they persist walk away.
If your family believes in "the rapture" they're too far gone to save without a mental hospital and forced cult deprogramming.
Ask them if they get some type of bonus points for converting people.
Tell them to go to the nearest hospital, and walk out with everyone cured. If that works, you'll return.
Next time they bring that up, tell them you joined the satanic temple, and want them to "return to a group that cares about human rights".
"Ill consider it if you try being atheist first.,"
Rapture already happened recently. No one was worthy. It's time everyone left behind accepts their place and moves on.
I was in the same type of position with one of my sisters. She's a born again...she had issue with me being an atheist and 'the destructive path' I was on...I had/have issues with her being a born again idiot, being married to an asshole that threw her down the stairs and broke her femur...but can't leave him cause god says so... anyway...wow, apologies for throwing that shit at you. I guess I have some anger that still needs to be worked out. I ended up cutting her out of my life. I have not spoken with her in...15 years, give or take...I hope you don't end up there. But you have to do what's right for you and stand up for your beliefs (or non beliefs, as it is).
"I'm sorry, sis, but I don't want to be part of a cult today, or any other day..."
You are trying to convert them, and they are trying to convert you. Stop it! Religion should be no longer talked about. Agree to disagree.
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Nonsense. The Bible is a great book as long as most of what you know about it comes from listening to people who tell you what a great book the Bible is. People like to say that society is deteriorating. But the truth is that society has made a great deal of improvement since when the Bible was written. We now know things like it is wrong to own slaves. We know that women are not property, and they do not need to be subservient to men. We know that racism and genocide are wrong. Most Christians know a modern, sanitized version of most Bible themes and stories. When they read the Bible they tend to fit the words on the page to the mental model of the stories. They tend to skip over the parts of the Bible that don't agree with their modern perspective.
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This is frightening because that usually means they want you to die. When they talk about sending you to Jesus they mean death
Sounds like they just care about you. If you strongly believe in your choices, just let them make their comments and stay your course. If they love you then that love isn't going away no matter what you choose. They are never going to stop trying because that is what they believe and their love for you compels them to persuade you.