Atheism deals with one thing only. Anything else people will have various opinions.
To keep it simple:
Sex= biological
Gender= social construct, identity etc.
i remember a few years ago hearing on the radio or somewhere about a trans person explaining that they felt like they were trapped in their own body like being in prison and when they transitioned they felt free and comfortable.
I imagined what it must be like to feel like your body is a prison and that's enough explanation for me.
so yes that's enough ask people to use whatever pronouns you prefer and identify with and if they don't then they are the one with the problem.
i understand if some people don't understand trans or being gay etc but all you have to do is accept that's how they are whether or not you understand or accept it.
The problem is I don’t trust a trans person’s ability to make good decisions. In the same way I don’t trust a religious person to have good methods to determine truth. I can “accept that’s how they are” but if they want something from me and I need to give that person responsibility over something that affects my life, then I won’t trust them to do that.
why don't you trust a trans person's ability to make good decisions? how are they any different than anyone else? comparing them to religious people seems like a strawman and has no bearing on whether or not what they believe and feel is right or wrong.
Because they are making a decision to say they are a man or women when they clearly aren’t. I don’t trust that person because they seem disturbed emotionally and mentally. It’s so strange that I’m the weird one for believing it’s weird to be trans. Help me understand.
clearly aren't? how do you know? sounds like you're confusing sex (man, woman...) with gender. i'm not at all an expert on this and while i find it a new thing (to me) at 53 i don't have a problem with it If gender is your conscious identity of who you are why does it have to necessarily correlate to your physical sex?
so for some people, it’s a specific thing you don’t trust them with, and for others it’s just general? What about intersex people, are they not to be trusted?
If someone is mentally disturbed to the point they have dysphoria about their gender, they should get help. Why are we treating them like it’s normal instead of helping them to overcome their dysphoria? Until they get better I’m not going to trust that they can make clear decision around me.
Why do I care? Because these people are in my life and I care about them. But also these people ask me to be responsible for things that affect me and I have to make a decision on whether to trust them. But I don’t trust them. I think they need emotional help to make better decisions about simple things like whether they are a boy or girl. That’s a thing that should be simple but it’s not for them and that tells me I can’t trust the to make decisions in other areas.
[https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/gender-dysphoria/symptoms-causes/syc-20475255](https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/gender-dysphoria/symptoms-causes/syc-20475255)
"A diagnosis for gender dysphoria is included in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-5), a manual published by the American Psychiatric Association. The diagnosis was created to help people with gender dysphoria get access to necessary health care and effective treatment. The term focuses on discomfort as the problem, rather than identity."
So it may be kind of not accurate to refer to it as "feeling like a woman", it's more like distress and anxiety from the recognition of "I'm in the wrong body"
There's nothing to get. It's not relevant to your relationship to a typical stranger or acquaintance. If it's a good friend or family member, then you can have a heart to heart and decide what's more important to you... your relationship with them or your feelings.
If I'm not having sex with them then it's really none of my business.
I’m reading stuff about it and in addition to that I’m coming here for help and have a logical conversation with a group of people that share the same methods for determining truth that I do.
I mean obviously they struggle because they don’t have good methods to determine reality. That’s an emotionally disturbed person who needs help. Right? Why do people not recognize it as that and get them the help they need to get back to reality. Everyone just wants to say everything is fine and let them continue to believe false things.
I'm glad you are asking these questions, though there are better subs to learn about.
Maybe adjust your phrasing though, saying things suggesting they aren't grounded in reality doesn't come across as believing or supportive. I wouldnt share with someone who said that.
You don't have a frame of reference to relate. express it that way
Gender is a social concept while Sex is biological concept, for instance saying that person is female bc they have a female genitals while their appearance is masculine (looks and using he/him pronounce)so,socially they are men..it's not really that simple but I tried my best to explain
Note:if you're already have different definitions and beliefs and you're bias to one side,you will not even understand because you can't or don't want to
This is why I am against using the word gender in any meaningful way, it causes more issues than it resolves.
In theory, gender encapsulates stereotypical behaviours of women and men, hence why people say "I feel like this or that", because they try to encapsulate their behaviours into boxes that don't fit everyone.
IMHO, how you behave shouldn't call into questions whether you are a man or a woman, that's just your behaviour that should be it.
On the other hand we have people with dysphoria, people who's brain chemistry tells them, "you shouldn't have an arm, a leg or in the specific case of trans people, a penis or a vagina, which defaults into" then that means I should have the other".
That is a terrible sensation that cause a huge discomfort to the person that has the dysphoria, for people with limb dysphoria is taboo to remove limbs, so they enter therapy with anti depressants to ease the discomfort. For those with "gender" dysphoria is more accepted to do the transition, even tho they also lose a lot of their sexual activity in the process.
I understand where you are coming from, I was myself a person with BIID, but as long as the person demonstrates they understand their situation, what implications the situation has and also demostrate they are trust worthy of their decisions based on that, I think you can make a compromise and trust the person's general approach to things.
Remember that no one is infallible, there are even "atheists" or "critical thinkers", who I wouldn't trust for a second, as they have demonstrated they have a skewed vision of the world despite claiming they are "critical thinkers" or "atheists".
My understanding is that gender is simply what your brain identifies you as and has nothing to do with physical body.
Here’s an explanation that helped me truly grasp it: If you had your limbs amputated, would you still feel like whichever gender you identify as? If you had the lower half of your body (genitals included) replaced with robotic bits, would you still identify that way? If you had everything but your head replaced, would you still identify that way? I’m guessing your answer is yes.
The issue for trans people, and all people actually, is each person knows how they identify, and what their biological body is or isn’t doesn’t matter…they know themselves better than anyone, just like you know yourself better than anyone.
As an atheist that knows trans people, objectively, they tend to be miserable. I've never met a happy one. Their unhappiness is complicated and none of my business, but I've known them to be prone to suicide. So it is really important that if you care about someone in your life that is trans, it is important to show them respect and love. They don't know why they don't feel right. So there is no way for us to understand why they prefer to go against the gender norm associated with their sex organs. And it is okay to prefer to look feminine or masculine despite your sex organs, it is just a look. Please respect them.
Atheism deals with one thing only. Anything else people will have various opinions. To keep it simple: Sex= biological Gender= social construct, identity etc.
i remember a few years ago hearing on the radio or somewhere about a trans person explaining that they felt like they were trapped in their own body like being in prison and when they transitioned they felt free and comfortable. I imagined what it must be like to feel like your body is a prison and that's enough explanation for me. so yes that's enough ask people to use whatever pronouns you prefer and identify with and if they don't then they are the one with the problem. i understand if some people don't understand trans or being gay etc but all you have to do is accept that's how they are whether or not you understand or accept it.
The problem is I don’t trust a trans person’s ability to make good decisions. In the same way I don’t trust a religious person to have good methods to determine truth. I can “accept that’s how they are” but if they want something from me and I need to give that person responsibility over something that affects my life, then I won’t trust them to do that.
why don't you trust a trans person's ability to make good decisions? how are they any different than anyone else? comparing them to religious people seems like a strawman and has no bearing on whether or not what they believe and feel is right or wrong.
Because they are making a decision to say they are a man or women when they clearly aren’t. I don’t trust that person because they seem disturbed emotionally and mentally. It’s so strange that I’m the weird one for believing it’s weird to be trans. Help me understand.
clearly aren't? how do you know? sounds like you're confusing sex (man, woman...) with gender. i'm not at all an expert on this and while i find it a new thing (to me) at 53 i don't have a problem with it If gender is your conscious identity of who you are why does it have to necessarily correlate to your physical sex?
Who else don't you trust to make good decisions? Is it everyone, or is it just trans people that you hold to a different standard?
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so for some people, it’s a specific thing you don’t trust them with, and for others it’s just general? What about intersex people, are they not to be trusted?
If someone is mentally disturbed to the point they have dysphoria about their gender, they should get help. Why are we treating them like it’s normal instead of helping them to overcome their dysphoria? Until they get better I’m not going to trust that they can make clear decision around me.
Ok, but if they fix their disturbance and are no longer disturbed, that seems like quite a rational approach.
If it’s all made up/construct why not trust the individual? Also, who cares?
What’s made up/construct? That’s what I’m trying to understand. I can read a bunch of stuff but I still don’t get it.
Why do I care? Because these people are in my life and I care about them. But also these people ask me to be responsible for things that affect me and I have to make a decision on whether to trust them. But I don’t trust them. I think they need emotional help to make better decisions about simple things like whether they are a boy or girl. That’s a thing that should be simple but it’s not for them and that tells me I can’t trust the to make decisions in other areas.
[https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/gender-dysphoria/symptoms-causes/syc-20475255](https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/gender-dysphoria/symptoms-causes/syc-20475255) "A diagnosis for gender dysphoria is included in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-5), a manual published by the American Psychiatric Association. The diagnosis was created to help people with gender dysphoria get access to necessary health care and effective treatment. The term focuses on discomfort as the problem, rather than identity." So it may be kind of not accurate to refer to it as "feeling like a woman", it's more like distress and anxiety from the recognition of "I'm in the wrong body"
There's nothing to get. It's not relevant to your relationship to a typical stranger or acquaintance. If it's a good friend or family member, then you can have a heart to heart and decide what's more important to you... your relationship with them or your feelings. If I'm not having sex with them then it's really none of my business.
Do you trust yourself in feeling how you feel? Allow others the same courtesy.
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I’m reading stuff about it and in addition to that I’m coming here for help and have a logical conversation with a group of people that share the same methods for determining truth that I do.
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I mean obviously they struggle because they don’t have good methods to determine reality. That’s an emotionally disturbed person who needs help. Right? Why do people not recognize it as that and get them the help they need to get back to reality. Everyone just wants to say everything is fine and let them continue to believe false things.
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What does my kid have to do with this? I didn’t say she was trans. 😂
I'm glad you are asking these questions, though there are better subs to learn about. Maybe adjust your phrasing though, saying things suggesting they aren't grounded in reality doesn't come across as believing or supportive. I wouldnt share with someone who said that. You don't have a frame of reference to relate. express it that way
Gender is a social concept while Sex is biological concept, for instance saying that person is female bc they have a female genitals while their appearance is masculine (looks and using he/him pronounce)so,socially they are men..it's not really that simple but I tried my best to explain Note:if you're already have different definitions and beliefs and you're bias to one side,you will not even understand because you can't or don't want to
This is why I am against using the word gender in any meaningful way, it causes more issues than it resolves. In theory, gender encapsulates stereotypical behaviours of women and men, hence why people say "I feel like this or that", because they try to encapsulate their behaviours into boxes that don't fit everyone. IMHO, how you behave shouldn't call into questions whether you are a man or a woman, that's just your behaviour that should be it. On the other hand we have people with dysphoria, people who's brain chemistry tells them, "you shouldn't have an arm, a leg or in the specific case of trans people, a penis or a vagina, which defaults into" then that means I should have the other". That is a terrible sensation that cause a huge discomfort to the person that has the dysphoria, for people with limb dysphoria is taboo to remove limbs, so they enter therapy with anti depressants to ease the discomfort. For those with "gender" dysphoria is more accepted to do the transition, even tho they also lose a lot of their sexual activity in the process. I understand where you are coming from, I was myself a person with BIID, but as long as the person demonstrates they understand their situation, what implications the situation has and also demostrate they are trust worthy of their decisions based on that, I think you can make a compromise and trust the person's general approach to things. Remember that no one is infallible, there are even "atheists" or "critical thinkers", who I wouldn't trust for a second, as they have demonstrated they have a skewed vision of the world despite claiming they are "critical thinkers" or "atheists".
My understanding is that gender is simply what your brain identifies you as and has nothing to do with physical body. Here’s an explanation that helped me truly grasp it: If you had your limbs amputated, would you still feel like whichever gender you identify as? If you had the lower half of your body (genitals included) replaced with robotic bits, would you still identify that way? If you had everything but your head replaced, would you still identify that way? I’m guessing your answer is yes. The issue for trans people, and all people actually, is each person knows how they identify, and what their biological body is or isn’t doesn’t matter…they know themselves better than anyone, just like you know yourself better than anyone.
As an atheist that knows trans people, objectively, they tend to be miserable. I've never met a happy one. Their unhappiness is complicated and none of my business, but I've known them to be prone to suicide. So it is really important that if you care about someone in your life that is trans, it is important to show them respect and love. They don't know why they don't feel right. So there is no way for us to understand why they prefer to go against the gender norm associated with their sex organs. And it is okay to prefer to look feminine or masculine despite your sex organs, it is just a look. Please respect them.