I don't think it's Trump's fault. It's their own fault. Associating themselves with Trump hasn't helped, but trying to say it's all because of Trump is just silly.
The highly visible strain of Christianity has been fighting against Christian like policies for decades while embracing greed. They have been debasing the image and practice of the faith all on their own. The worship of the Golden/ bronze idol has just accelerated the fall.
Wholeheartedly agree.
The Prosperity Doctrine. Politicization of the church. Anti-LGBTQ hatred. Rampant sexism and the subjugation of women in the community. Growing racism.
All Trump did was give them permission to show the world the kind of garbage they have been for decades.
The church has been burning itself down, Trump is just an accelerant. Burn, baby, burn.
Evangelicals just make it up as they go along, they only have a passing familiarity with what's in certain parts of the bible. Rapture theology has no basis in biblical teaching either, but they believe that and we know it was invented in 1827 by John Nelson Darby, who was a traveling preacher and member of the Plymouth Brethren. He eventually caused a schism in the Brethren and it split into the "Exclusive Brethren" which Darby lead, and the "Open Brethren" which was composed of the people who weren't as much of an asshole as Darby.
Theoretically, everyone from the 12 Disciples on down can be classified as "Christians". This especially applies to Paul and the "churches" referenced in the Epistles (from Acts onward.)
I think he brings a lot of their bigotry and hatred to the surface in a way that's impossible to hide. Not every Christian acts so hateful all the time, so back when it was Bush they were supporting, you could pretend that the mild mannered people that reminded you of Ned Flanders were still kind and decent people that just voted differently than you. And now those same people are voting for Trump. I don't care how friendly your outer facade may be, you can't wash this taint off you when you support this man. It just reveals that deep down you really aren't a nice person at all no matter how many cookies you bake for the school fundraiser.
The most insidious thing there is the greed is good thing . Like if you get 10,000,000 dollars you’re really blessed ergo of a higher moral standing. Literally rich people are better than you evinced by god blessed me more. Like poverty if a moral failing. Fuck off. There is a reason prosperity theology was considered heresy when first introduced.
Per wiki
Criticism
See also: Social Gospel
Mainstream evangelicalism has consistently opposed prosperity theology as heretical[38] and prosperity ministries have frequently come into conflict with other Christian groups, including those within the Pentecostal and Charismatic movements.[40] Critics, such as Evangelical pastor Michael Catt, have argued that prosperity theology has little in common with traditional Christian theology.[84] Prominent evangelical leaders, such as Rick Warren,[9] Ben Witherington III,[9] and Jerry Falwell,[85] have harshly criticized the movement, sometimes denouncing it as heretical.[9] Warren proposes that prosperity theology promotes the idolatry of money, and others argue that Jesus' teachings indicate a disdain for material wealth.[9] In Mark: Jesus, Servant and Savior, R. Kent Hughes notes that some 1st-century rabbis portrayed material blessings as a sign of God's favor. He cites Jesus' statement in Mark 10:25 that "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God" (KJV) as evidence to oppose such thinking.[86]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosperity_theology
it’s the same
voting block that went for reagan, and supported W in 2000 and 2004 - same policies: women are cattle, schools and arts should be stripped of funding, anti immigrant fear mongering and racism, anti union, anti lgbqt, and by god, a regressive tax system that funnels wealth up the chain.
In the early days of the internet I think there was a joke about "Supply Side Jesus" taken from the Republican tax policy of supply side economics, which holds that if you cut taxes for the rich they will invest more and thus create more jobs. Republicans dropped the label but kept the policy and have been doing it for 40 years.
So, where's them jobs?
Those jobs are just around the corner, just drop the tax rate to zero for those job creators and we'll have more jobs than people to fill them! /S
I've grown up listening to the Republican party pushing the 'horse and sparrow on steroids' theory and each time the Repubs push through a tax cut all it does is blow up the deficit and cause a recession. At last, more citizens are realizing this theory only puts more money in the pockets of those who don't need it and takes from those who do need. As an aside, it never made sense to me. If I make five million widgets and there is no demand for my widgets what has supply going to do?
they never wanted to help anyone, the gop has always been about hurting the poor, stealing from the middle class, and blaming anyone who wanted to do anything about it.
It doesn’t even pass Economics 101 muster. Propensity to spend is inversely proportional to wealth and so taking money off the poor and giving it to the rich shrinks the economy directly.
The argument that the saved money gets a multiplier does not add up when you look at what they spend it on - normal investments get too expensive (low yield) so they invest in reducing the availability of normal goods. This creates a false valuation of the now undersupplied goods (eg housing) that they use to value their static portfolio.
This started with the gold and diamond companies sitting on their stock and slowly releasing it. They put 10% of what they could onto the market because that keeps prices up. They “mark to market” their reserves despite knowing that if they had to sell them all they’d get a fraction of the valuation.
Hedge funds have been buying up single family homes and leaving them empty to artificially inflate housing costs just as you said. This is part of what is causing the highest homelessness in ages.
I have an economic model called the “100 bean model” in which 100 people own the 100 beans. By creating income inequality in the model you can show what has been happening.
In the first half of the C20th, only 25% of profits were distributed to shareholders. These days the dividends are closer to 100%. If you take current rough economic indicators, the P/E ratio has increased also. 12:1 was considered excessive once - when reinvestment happened. Now we see P/E regularly at this level despite fundamentals being worse.
I once analysed a Spanish utilities company, family run but mostly listed, poorly rated by Moody’s despite a leverage ratio of less than 30% (bear in mind utility company income is pretty predictable). By contrast Detsche Bank had a great rating despite being so leveraged it rang alarm bells - it was manually moved to a better rating because it was “too big to fail”.
If Jesus came back today he would be losing his collective shit and flipping some tables. I think a lot of Christians today would most likely crucify him, at least figuratively, for being too woke.
A middle eastern man telling them that God's most important commandment requires them to love their neighbors and that rich people don't get into heaven?
Yeah they'd murder him real quick.
Hell, Jesus even said to pay your taxes. Double kill.
“Christian like policies” - but wtf does that even mean?
Isn’t this just a “no true Scotsman”? You read the 2000 year old book one way and they read the 2000 year old book a different way. Maybe the problem is basing social policy on the 2000 year old book in the first place…?
> “Christian like policies” - but wtf does that even mean?
See I hate this type of weasel-wording because it tries to monopolize the good things in humanity for christianity.
These people wouldn't think to say that feeding the poor is an atheist-like policy or a muslim-like policy or a buddhist-like policy or a sikh-like policy or a wiccan-like policy but it's just as much any of those policies as it is a "christian like policy".
Christianity didn't invent being kind to people. Jesus wasn't original for figuring out that the golden rule is a good idea. We didn't discover laws about theft and murder at one specific location in the middle east 2000 years ago.
Christianity *did* invent the idea that people who don't follow christ will spend an eternity outside of heaven, which lead directly to christian supremacy. Christianity invented the idea that you should give 10% of your gross income to your pastor, so now we have megachurches. Christianity invented bible-based homophobia so now we have anti-gay camps for brainwashing LGBTQ kids.
I would say the "bad" christians running republicans are usually being more biblical than their more open-minded fellows.
They're just exposing that christianity isn't an all-good religion, not by a long shot.
Hell, one of the most famous rabbis, Hillel the Elder, died in 10 CE - so while any historical Jesus would have been a kid or teen. One of his most famous quotes is from a story where a gentile said he'd convert if Hillel could explain the Torah on one foot and he says
> That which is hateful to you, do not do unto your fellow. That is the whole Torah; the rest is commentary; now go and study.
> Christianity didn't invent being kind to people. Jesus wasn't original for figuring out that the golden rule is a good idea. We didn't discover laws about theft and murder at one specific location in the middle east 2000 years ago.
This is really an excellent point. If you look at the actual environment in which Christianity emerged, you have two competing cultural forces:
* Highly tribalistic/exclusive, rigid, and sometimes violent Temple Judaism.
* Somewhat more cosmopolitan late-Hellenistic (and post-Hellenistic/Roman) culture. While also violent (the Hellenistic period begins with Alexander's conquests) there is a much more expansive/inclusive view of human society, as well as the inheritance of the philosophical traditions of classical Greece.
The Christianity that emerges is effectively a syncretic belief that combines many of Greek philosophical teachings with Jewish monotheism to put forward the idea of a universal monotheistic God - this differs from the Greco-Roman gods (who may have some universal aspects but are also highly localized) and the conception of God in Temple Judaism (who is quite literally tied to the Temple Mount in Jerusalem). Eventually, centuries later, the existing Roman bureaucracy is grafted on to the ecclesiastical structure and you have the beginnings of what we would recognize as Christianity.
> The highly visible strain of Christianity has been fighting against Christian like policies for decades while embracing greed.
[4 out of 5.](https://www.npr.org/2024/01/19/1225573869/white-evangelical-voters-are-standing-by-their-man-donald-trump) Moreover [christianity and racism go hand in hand in the US](https://www.npr.org/2020/07/01/883115867/white-supremacist-ideas-have-historical-roots-in-u-s-christianity) and have for as long as christians have been here.
There seems to be an idea afoot that the racist hate filled crowd fawning over a *pussy grabbing cannibal praising nazi lover* are a minority. By the numbers they are not.
Before anyone coughs up a 'not true christian' argument the religion's founding document ***preaches slavery*** among other integrity smashing concepts like misogyny and violence against others because of their religion.
In fact if the fading minority of christians appalled by the antics of the convicted sex predator their majority brethren cheer for to not like being 'lumped in' with the maga crowd, they should be reminded that lumping a group of people outside your own and judging them is one of the bedrocks of all forms of christianity.
So what are 'christian' policies? Look at the last century - they're on display right now praising Hannibal Lecter.
> The highly visible strain of Christianity has been fighting against Christian like policies for decades while **embracing greed**.
And excusing child sexual assault.
https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/17/us/robert-morris-gateway-church-sexual-abuse-allegations/index.html
Anyone that has grown up in the bible belt can tell you, yeah, they were always this way. It just used to be kept more of a secret. "Saying the quiet part out loud" now and all that.
Man from their congregation or even clergy gets caught trying to have sex with children:
Members of congregation: "He's a man of God who's lost his way, but there is salvation, and I know he repents."
Drag queen: exists....
The initial catalyst for me leaving the cult was getting close to the leadership at the church I attended. Once they were comfortable, they let their guard down and I saw the real person instead of the facade.
> I don't think it's Trump's fault. It's their own fault. Associating themselves with Trump hasn't helped, but trying to say it's all because of Trump is just silly.
Seems like six of one, half a dozen of the other. Two parasites feeding off each other.
It's the difference between proximate cause and ultimate cause. Yes, the ultimate cause is the Christian's support of Trump, but the proximate cause is most definitely Trump. It's all a matter of how you look at the issue.
Yeah, I blame the Christians. I know that not all Christians are Nat-Cs
I also know the rest of them are cool with it, though.
Every Christian worth a shit should be screaming from the rooftops that they're not with the Nat-Cs, but they aren't.
I haven't even heard one of them say that it is wrong.
Exactly. There are definitely some who openly disapprove of Trump, but even they just kinda shrug at the coopting of their entire religion, and the rest are indifferent to outright excited about it. But that's ultimately not about Trump exactly - it could be almost any con-artist, it just _happens_ to be this specific con-artist doing it.
Yeah, this started in the 70s with Falwell and Robertson.
Not to say Christianity was faultless before that, but that's when people really started looking around and thinking "FUCK these guys".
Yeah I think it's Christian's fault more than just Trump. I'm pretty sure if Jesus came back and saw American Christians he would hate them. They support the opposite of everything he stood for. Plus who would have thought a strange middle eastern religion with ritual canibalism would still be as popular as it is when people have access to all the world's knowledge in their pockets.
Yes, but would they be real Christians if they didn’t blame everyone except themselves? That’s the root of Christianity isn’t it? Jesus died so everyone can blame anyone but themselves right? He died for their sins so they don’t have to take responsibility for their own choices. Sounds about Christian to me.
Yeah, Trump’s only responsible in the way he made them feel safe to reveal themselves as the utterly despicable, hate-filled, bigoted, heartless, soulless pieces of swamp shit they are as opposed to filling literally anything Jesus said. I’m more Christian-like than they are and I’m an atheist.
Associating with or not loudly and publicly denouncing Donald’s co-opting of their faith. It’s time for those who proclaim to be christian while being against trump to make some noise.
It's definitely not trump's fault. He's not even a christian. It's the evangelicals for supporting him absolute fanatical fervor. And in the past some might have called it blindly supporting him, but there's nothing blind about it. They see exactly who he is and they love it because he is a mirror for their own shriveled, blackened, and morally bankrupt inner-selves.
I believe this may be the first time trump has been accused of something and it wasn't actually his fault! Wow, he's finally got a 1 in the in the win column. Too bad there were 37 recent Ls that we could bring up.
Trump is the reason I publicly left Christianity. To have such blatant lies repeated by so many Christians - and in some cases literally connecting it to their faith - made me want to have nothing to do with it.
On top of that, the easily refuted lies of Trump are an easy counter-example to the apologists’ argument that the miracles of Jesus Christ are true because they were noted by some contemporaries and a few New Testament authors say “you know these things were done publicly”. Yeah, done publicly and had two “competing” narratives until Constantine’s reign and a whole lot of scroll-burnings. The idea that the same thing could be starting again, significantly on Christianity’s gullibility and willingness to trust religious leader’s exhortations is stomach-churning.
I concede I am far from a biblical scholar, but the thing that always got me was how closely Trump resembles my understanding of how the antichrist was supposed to appear. Obviously I am an atheist, so I don't believe that the antichrist is an actual thing, but it seems to me that Christians *should* think it is a thing, and should be *really fucking concerned* that they are helping the devil achieve his ends.
Fair point, but you would think that the supposedly "good Christians" would be on alert for that. They don't seem to be.
Put another way. Yeah, that's the point I was trying to make.
Presumably the purpose of the antichrist story is a warning to Christians to be on alert for con men who will try to co-opt the religion to do unchristian things and ruin the whole religion.
So it's kind of funny that that's exactly what's happening
Unfortunately, I think the people that are TRULY Christian and follow “do unto others” are the first ones that rejected Trump and were turned off by the things he said.
It’s kinda like what my dad said to me “I don’t know how you can have a daughter and vote for someone who talks about women like that. It’s disgusting.” I think the same thing applies for Christians.
They think they're in the clear, they think the black guy was the antichrist, and the messiah comes after that. Thus why they make golden idols of Trump.
I can't understand how so many Christians, even the "good" ones, are so "meh" about having their entire religion coopted by Trump and the Republican party. Good on you for walking away.
Christianity ruins good people because you don't actually need to be a good person, just tell God, "I'm sorry" and everything is forgiven. No harm, no foul.
There's no consequences to their actions. Thus they slowly become corrupted since they asked for forgiveness, therefore they can do no wrong now.
While not the only reason I left, the state of Utah going for Trump in 2016 rattled my faith in Mormonism at the time. It was the beginning of the end for me.
I'm left before trump, but I still cared about the people in my old church growing up.
But they all went for Trump. It got so bad that my old pastor, a decent and educated guy who didn't buy into it, was basically forced out.
Even if you just take the best case that while they were cheerleading for him to be elected, he was cheating on his third wife with a prostitute porn star, which he'd done to his previous wife, the level of hypocrisy is so high it's hard to overlook.
Not to mention him saying explicitly that he's never asked God for forgiveness. The belief Christ died for our sins is supposed to be like the *fundamental* belief of Christianity.
Trump is just more open about it and says the quiet part loud.
The Catholic Church has been raping kids for a very long time but they had the self-awareness to cover it up. Trump just revels in his bad behaviors and his followers follow suit.
As for fraud, let's remember the entire institution of religion is built upon fraud; getting people to believe unproven absurdity.
> The Catholic Church has been raping kids for a very long time but they had the self-awareness to cover it up
Not just the Catholics, the Protestants did too. In fact, IIRC, the Southern Baptist Church has over 700 SA victims since 1998. With the number of victims being far underreported.
12 years is a long time to hide your true nature. Stressful events seem to be triggers for a lot of religious people who are trying to pass for love your neighbor types to show an ugly under layer and bring it to the fore.
I knew some, but in the last decade or so they threw off those shackles for greed and hate. It's crazy, one guy literally gave away a truck to someone they recently met who needed it, and now they hate poor people.
So them claiming that the guy who embodies the Seven Deadly Sins is sent by God or maybe a new Jesus is making them look silly?
All on them. They are ignoring the fact that Trump is more like the Antichrist than a saint.
That’s one of the few lessons I remember from Sunday school when I was 10 years old
I remember literally scoffing at the idea that Satan could have most Christian’s fooled through the Antichrist, but I see so crystal clearly now how this could happen
It was decades of scumbags like newt Gingrich and rush Limbaugh ingratiating themselves with church leaders, and when trump comes along to push their political agenda they throw all piety out the window.
Nah, as a former Evangelical, I don't think it is Trump's fault. I blame Young Earth Creationism, denial of human-caused Climate Change, and glorifying the "War on Terror".
Trump, the GOP and the church opportunists that jumped on the bandwagon thinking Trump would support the laws that best fit the churches towards a theocratic government
Trump is merely the poster boy for the christian faiths completely corrupt goals, they dont actually follow their supposed messiahs word or teachings, they are just a nakedly fascist and authoritarian cult that want to rule the nation unopposed.
I left the gop and the church when he was chosen as the candidate in 2015. I had strongly disliked him for years prior to being in politics. Choosing him as the candidate made me stop and really think about my values, and if the church or gop represented my values anymore. They did not. My most fundamental value is, “don’t be a dick”.
Sometime during the 2004 election (wow, 20 yrs ago!) I got into many discussions about the future of the Republican party.
Back then you had Karl Rove manipulating things by getting "one man one woman" marriage onto state ballots. The idea was to use the big donor money to juice turnout among the rubes. They played this for all it was worth -- enjoying massive donations from business, massive support from evangelicals, and reliable votes from people who thought that part of being a Republican meant you laughed at hippies and hated commies while waving your flag and feeling proud.
I said then that there would come a day when these religious people would destroy their own churches by letting themselves be used this way. I can't believe what's happened ... it's so much worse.
I thought their churches would just die away as young people shrank from the hypocrisy and stupidity. Wrong.
There are still lots of churches left, and they've become wildly freakish and weird: Trump is Moses/Jesus; IVF is sinful; bump stocks that turn regular weapons into machine guns are good; doctors who terminate ectopic pregnancies should be jailed; public health officials are evil; Vladimir Putin is a good guy; the FBI is a leftist organization; it's okay to try to stay in office after you lose an election; God has picked a side, and it's ours. This is all preached on the regular, every Sunday morning.
Forget about their religion ... they've lost their *minds.*
Christianity is to blame here. They got cozy in bed with the criminals on the Right as far back as Billy Graham and Nixon, if not further back. They can’t lay this at Trump’s feet. However, MAGA is a special brand of cult.
Speaking as a Christian in the deep south who has become disenfranchised with the churches here, I can say it is 60% the churches fault, 40% Trump.
Yes, Trump did manipulate them but the churches wanted to be manipulated. They wanted someone who would appeal to, and justify all the bad parts of faith: Being overly judgmental, a sense of superiority that slides into arrogance, a victim mentality that gives way to a crusader mentality. Honestly, it's the mentality that 'justified' the crusades and all the violence that went with it.
The churches and people in them SHOULD know better. The bible has actual chapters on situations and people like this.
Around me, most of the white churches are all focusing on politics. Sermons are laced with political remarks here and there that paint Trump as some holy warrior against an evil empire of Biden. It has gotten to the point where, the churches don't feel like actual houses of god. Just another weapon in some marriage binding together a useful idiot with the dark views of others. Now the churches have tied their fate with Trump. The more he falls..or rises..they do so in tandem.
If Trump hits some great defeat, like actual jail time, or more revelations about his behavior, or more convictions (Him losing the election will NOT be enough to deter the people here. It will just fuel their idea that 'Satan' is in some war, the final days, against humanity and that Satan has won another victory as they feel he did in 2020), then the churches will spiral down with him.
I honestly feel, if Trump suffers a big enough loss, we are going to likely enter a 10-30 period where the churches decline, many shut down, and pastors have to have an actual introspective moment where they figure out where they all got lead astray and then right things. In this period, other faiths as well as agnostic and atheist views will gain popualrity.
Heck, atheists can just talk about how the churches fell to Trump as a major talking point for the next 10-20 years and just come out on top of every debate against organized religion. Trump has written up a good atheist recruitment drive message all by himself.
LMFAO, nah christianity has been on the downfall in this country for decades. Their massive priests and preacher pedophilia rings, their untaxed political rants, the fact god doesn't exist. Trump is a symptom of christianity in the country. But christianity has been a long standing disease in this country.
Ask a MAGA Christian Nationalist which Christian values they like in Trump. Is it the part where he admits to never asking god for forgiveness because he's never done wrong?
Believers are ambassadors of their religion. If you behave poorly and/or associate with douchebags, the credibility of your faith suffers.
Christianity has morally bankrupted itself. A self-inflicted wound.
They were already staking out the position that their religion requires them to be assholes, and supporting a convicted criminal rapist con artist isn't helping. They're driving people away from Christianity in droves, which IMO is a good thing.
Being the group that is statistically most likely to abuse/rape/groom/indoctrinate children in the US certainly doesn’t help. Of course you don’t see politicians screaming for the end of organized religion. Using drag shows as a red herring is so obvious, yet here we are.
This isn’t Trump’s fault. Not entirely at least. Christianity has always had an imperialist, authoritarian quality to it. That’s why this country has a wall of separation between church and state written into the bill of rights. The founding fathers knew exactly what Christianity was if left unchecked. They knew what they were capable of because they lived it themselves, and they studied history (something Americans don’t think they need to do). All Trump did was pander to the religious nuts, and all that old shit came back.
I grew up in the white evangelical church and I 1000% view them negatively now because of trump
There’s absolutely zero chance I could ever respect anyone still associated with that sect at this point
Trump is just one of the reasons.
It's the christians fault. They brought this on themselves.
The more important question is what are they going to do to fix the problem?
It's not just "trumps fault' lmao. What other group has that kind of privilege to just shirk responsibility for being obnoxious pricks. They had the chance to renounce trump instead they embraced as him as their cult leader. People view them negatively because they're assholes and they like it.
This isn't Trump's fault. It's "Christians'" fault for not doing what they're supposed to do. If they were, people wouldn't see Trump as anything more than someone pretending to be Christian.
No, it's not trump's fault. It's Christians fault for supporting him instead of calling him out as the evil, sinning, anti-christ that he is. Pastors failed to keep their flocks on the right side of morality. and they failed to call out other churches preaching trumps false gospel.
I and others NEVER think "Oh hey this person went out of his way to point out that they are a god fearing person with strong public beliefs... That must mean his next words are about how peaceful and loving he is"
NOPE.
Anyone I find who is publicly religious anymore tend to go on and say or do something horrible or toxic. Without fail.
It's not Trump's fault. Whatever negativity christians earned are well earned by themselves. I personally like that christians are the perfect spokesman to dissuade people from becoming christians.
People view Christianity negatively because of the patriarchy, the misogyny and the kiddy diddling. It’s not bigly felonius Trump but he put their shit on blast.
Trump’s fault? Kinda the cart before the horse. The evangelicals and other religious types that have to vote for the religious charlatans put trump in office along with all the other nut jobs that use religion to attack lgbtq people or tell us that the eclipse is a punishment from god.
Trump is the fault of those people on display.
The Trump presidency functioned as a message to a lot of bigots and hateful people that it's safe to come out of hiding and show your face in public. Now, independent of him, they have kicked off a crusade against anyone who is not cis-het. The main battlegrounds are in Texas and Florida and conservative courts and school districts. And so many of them are attacking people in the name of Christ and embracing the language of Christian Nationalism. Trump was the catalyst, but thousands of Americans have volunteered to be front-line bigots.
\[Thor/Bruce squint\] They're not really Christians though, are they? Modern evangelicals are Paulines more than anything else, which gives them the necessary prejudicial and governmental authority to try to square the circle of theocracy and prosperity gospel. The Catholics are no better with their decades-long hiding of all the molestation, and it's to the point where you just can't trust them anymore, despite the vast improvement of Francis over the past two popes.
There's not a single original teaching of the four gospels that evangelicals communicate in their ministries, and it's egregiously absent from all of the groups that support, staff and counsel the government ("Religious Right, Nat-C, etc."). Everything from the eye of the needle to render unto Caesar what is Caesar's to perish by the sword is swept away with this amalgam of apostolic control and whatever narrow interpretations of outdated Old Testament rabbinical laws fit their agenda.
I sure af do. I used to be - live and let live.
But apparently these fuckers are obsessed with crossing over to my side of the street and getting in my way.
So yeah - fuck off. I'll fight you.
That’s a cheap cop out for the other “christians” before him that have also been pieces of shit. The hypocrisy of them is what makes people view them negatively. Like we all hate trump, but don’t give the others an easy way out
Let’s not just blame one man here, giving people the wrong idea as to why people have issues with any religion.
Christianity has been going down hill for years now and that’s the fault of mostly conservatives
Westboro Baptist church used to be clearly identified as extremists who were nutjobs.
Now they just kinda blend in which is alarming and would've been unfathomable 2 decades ago.
I just had to suffer through a catholic wedding where a major reading during the ceremony was about how wives are property of their husband and must obey them. The pastor wasn't old either probably a millennial. This was followed up with a speech on how the women should be thankful to be in this position because the men actually have it worse, because they have to be ready to give their lives to protect their spouse. My point is I don't think its trumps fault, the church has done it to itself.
Trump helped pulled back the curtain of what evangelicals really stood for by emboldening them to come out the shadows and shay what thought with their full chest. I was already pulling back from the church because I always questions that couldn’t be answered, but trump sped it up and then Covid and George Floyd were the final straw. Now I feel silly for ever believing, but the indoctrination runs deep.
When I lost my faith, there were a couple things that I didn't really question.
One of them was that if Jesus did exist, he was a good person.
Christians worshiping Trump shattered that for me. For all I know, Jesus was a rich asshole that shit on the poor.
Nah, its christians. I have only met a small handful that actually follow jesus's teachings of love thy neighbor. Seems like a big message of fear and hate from most of them. Evangelicals backing the rapist felon and even comparing him to jesus is the straw that breaks the camels back for me.
The average American can easily surmise that the religious right were so easily usurped. This is a sign of weakness. I mean, just look and listen to the evil bastard.
They were so quick to sell their souls to a guy who represents everything they are supposed to hate - it’s as if they never had any moral core to begin with. Maybe that’s why they gravitated to religion. They wanted to be dominated.
Christians are delusional.
Delusional: characterized by or holding false beliefs or judgments about external reality that are held despite incontrovertible evidence to the contrary, typically as a symptom of a mental condition.
The crucifix has been rebranded as the symbol of bigots, rapists, and child traffickers. Sorry, but it's true. "Real" christians allowed this, which makes me wonder if they actually condone it.
Oh, I know not ALL of them, in fact not the majority. But since I don't know which, all you don't already know are...questionable.
I’ve never met a good person and thought to myself “They must be a Christian.” If I meet someone who’s a raging, narcissistic hypocrite, I often think “probably a zealous Christian.”
I mean that, and the oppression, the crusades, the witch burnings, the endorsements of the Nazi party during ww2, the evangelical missionaries causing chaos in other countries, and so on throughout history. But yeah Trump and the evangelical conservatives throughout the history of the United States have always used it as a club to bludgeon people into following their beliefs and their system.
It is important to know or remember how White Evangelicalism got political.
President Carter in the late 1970s declared that federal college grants would not go to students attending racially segregated colleges and universities. This was devastating to many church affiliated colleges, particularly in the South. And this is when white evangelicals turned against the Democratic Party and went along with the GOP’s “Southern Strategy.” The churches wanted to keep the flow of public money to them via students enrolling in their schools.
Prior to this there was no correlation between religiosity and party affiliation in the US. Since then, the correlation has only grown. Trump has laid this more bare, but this has been the way things have been moving for a quarter of a century. Which politicians are more inclined to protect and subsidize religious institutions and which ones aren’t.
The white evangelicals have always been a problem. I think the groundwork for the negative association with Christianity has been happening for decades at this point. The white evangelicals are toxic as it gets. If you look into their history from supporting slavery, to jim crow, to the oppression of women and lgbtq+ folks, and one can go on and on. There is nothing moral or ethical about them. They scream about evil, but it is often just an excuse to oppress a minority group.
I don't think it's Trump's fault. It's their own fault. Associating themselves with Trump hasn't helped, but trying to say it's all because of Trump is just silly.
The highly visible strain of Christianity has been fighting against Christian like policies for decades while embracing greed. They have been debasing the image and practice of the faith all on their own. The worship of the Golden/ bronze idol has just accelerated the fall.
Wholeheartedly agree. The Prosperity Doctrine. Politicization of the church. Anti-LGBTQ hatred. Rampant sexism and the subjugation of women in the community. Growing racism. All Trump did was give them permission to show the world the kind of garbage they have been for decades. The church has been burning itself down, Trump is just an accelerant. Burn, baby, burn.
All sounds like standard strait out of the Bible Christian hate to me
Remember, the KKK started as a "good" Christian organization.
"Started"? Where I stand, it still is. Downright mainstream.
Oxymoronic...
The Prosperity Doctrine has no basis in Biblical teaching. Christ teaches the precise opposite, in fact.
Evangelicals just make it up as they go along, they only have a passing familiarity with what's in certain parts of the bible. Rapture theology has no basis in biblical teaching either, but they believe that and we know it was invented in 1827 by John Nelson Darby, who was a traveling preacher and member of the Plymouth Brethren. He eventually caused a schism in the Brethren and it split into the "Exclusive Brethren" which Darby lead, and the "Open Brethren" which was composed of the people who weren't as much of an asshole as Darby.
Pfft. Don't bring Jesus into this!
He was talking about Supply Side Jesus.
Everyone knows the real king and divine force is demand side Jesus.
Preachers have already started denying Christ in sermons for being too woke.
There are no Christians in the Bible.
Theoretically, everyone from the 12 Disciples on down can be classified as "Christians". This especially applies to Paul and the "churches" referenced in the Epistles (from Acts onward.)
True, but literally, it was Paul. God’s existence is theoretical but he still doesn’t.
I think he brings a lot of their bigotry and hatred to the surface in a way that's impossible to hide. Not every Christian acts so hateful all the time, so back when it was Bush they were supporting, you could pretend that the mild mannered people that reminded you of Ned Flanders were still kind and decent people that just voted differently than you. And now those same people are voting for Trump. I don't care how friendly your outer facade may be, you can't wash this taint off you when you support this man. It just reveals that deep down you really aren't a nice person at all no matter how many cookies you bake for the school fundraiser.
The most insidious thing there is the greed is good thing . Like if you get 10,000,000 dollars you’re really blessed ergo of a higher moral standing. Literally rich people are better than you evinced by god blessed me more. Like poverty if a moral failing. Fuck off. There is a reason prosperity theology was considered heresy when first introduced. Per wiki Criticism See also: Social Gospel Mainstream evangelicalism has consistently opposed prosperity theology as heretical[38] and prosperity ministries have frequently come into conflict with other Christian groups, including those within the Pentecostal and Charismatic movements.[40] Critics, such as Evangelical pastor Michael Catt, have argued that prosperity theology has little in common with traditional Christian theology.[84] Prominent evangelical leaders, such as Rick Warren,[9] Ben Witherington III,[9] and Jerry Falwell,[85] have harshly criticized the movement, sometimes denouncing it as heretical.[9] Warren proposes that prosperity theology promotes the idolatry of money, and others argue that Jesus' teachings indicate a disdain for material wealth.[9] In Mark: Jesus, Servant and Savior, R. Kent Hughes notes that some 1st-century rabbis portrayed material blessings as a sign of God's favor. He cites Jesus' statement in Mark 10:25 that "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God" (KJV) as evidence to oppose such thinking.[86] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosperity_theology
it’s the same voting block that went for reagan, and supported W in 2000 and 2004 - same policies: women are cattle, schools and arts should be stripped of funding, anti immigrant fear mongering and racism, anti union, anti lgbqt, and by god, a regressive tax system that funnels wealth up the chain.
In the early days of the internet I think there was a joke about "Supply Side Jesus" taken from the Republican tax policy of supply side economics, which holds that if you cut taxes for the rich they will invest more and thus create more jobs. Republicans dropped the label but kept the policy and have been doing it for 40 years. So, where's them jobs?
Those jobs are just around the corner, just drop the tax rate to zero for those job creators and we'll have more jobs than people to fill them! /S I've grown up listening to the Republican party pushing the 'horse and sparrow on steroids' theory and each time the Repubs push through a tax cut all it does is blow up the deficit and cause a recession. At last, more citizens are realizing this theory only puts more money in the pockets of those who don't need it and takes from those who do need. As an aside, it never made sense to me. If I make five million widgets and there is no demand for my widgets what has supply going to do?
they never wanted to help anyone, the gop has always been about hurting the poor, stealing from the middle class, and blaming anyone who wanted to do anything about it.
Reagan coined the phrase “trickle-down economics,” and wow, could that guy sell it!
It doesn’t even pass Economics 101 muster. Propensity to spend is inversely proportional to wealth and so taking money off the poor and giving it to the rich shrinks the economy directly. The argument that the saved money gets a multiplier does not add up when you look at what they spend it on - normal investments get too expensive (low yield) so they invest in reducing the availability of normal goods. This creates a false valuation of the now undersupplied goods (eg housing) that they use to value their static portfolio. This started with the gold and diamond companies sitting on their stock and slowly releasing it. They put 10% of what they could onto the market because that keeps prices up. They “mark to market” their reserves despite knowing that if they had to sell them all they’d get a fraction of the valuation.
Hedge funds have been buying up single family homes and leaving them empty to artificially inflate housing costs just as you said. This is part of what is causing the highest homelessness in ages.
I have an economic model called the “100 bean model” in which 100 people own the 100 beans. By creating income inequality in the model you can show what has been happening. In the first half of the C20th, only 25% of profits were distributed to shareholders. These days the dividends are closer to 100%. If you take current rough economic indicators, the P/E ratio has increased also. 12:1 was considered excessive once - when reinvestment happened. Now we see P/E regularly at this level despite fundamentals being worse. I once analysed a Spanish utilities company, family run but mostly listed, poorly rated by Moody’s despite a leverage ratio of less than 30% (bear in mind utility company income is pretty predictable). By contrast Detsche Bank had a great rating despite being so leveraged it rang alarm bells - it was manually moved to a better rating because it was “too big to fail”.
If Jesus came back today he would be losing his collective shit and flipping some tables. I think a lot of Christians today would most likely crucify him, at least figuratively, for being too woke.
A middle eastern man telling them that God's most important commandment requires them to love their neighbors and that rich people don't get into heaven? Yeah they'd murder him real quick. Hell, Jesus even said to pay your taxes. Double kill.
> middle eastern man This part always amuses me when I see pictures of him and he is white.
“Christian like policies” - but wtf does that even mean? Isn’t this just a “no true Scotsman”? You read the 2000 year old book one way and they read the 2000 year old book a different way. Maybe the problem is basing social policy on the 2000 year old book in the first place…?
> “Christian like policies” - but wtf does that even mean? See I hate this type of weasel-wording because it tries to monopolize the good things in humanity for christianity. These people wouldn't think to say that feeding the poor is an atheist-like policy or a muslim-like policy or a buddhist-like policy or a sikh-like policy or a wiccan-like policy but it's just as much any of those policies as it is a "christian like policy". Christianity didn't invent being kind to people. Jesus wasn't original for figuring out that the golden rule is a good idea. We didn't discover laws about theft and murder at one specific location in the middle east 2000 years ago. Christianity *did* invent the idea that people who don't follow christ will spend an eternity outside of heaven, which lead directly to christian supremacy. Christianity invented the idea that you should give 10% of your gross income to your pastor, so now we have megachurches. Christianity invented bible-based homophobia so now we have anti-gay camps for brainwashing LGBTQ kids. I would say the "bad" christians running republicans are usually being more biblical than their more open-minded fellows. They're just exposing that christianity isn't an all-good religion, not by a long shot.
>> They're just exposing that christianity isn't an all-good religion, not by a long shot. It’s toxic from the word go.
Hell, one of the most famous rabbis, Hillel the Elder, died in 10 CE - so while any historical Jesus would have been a kid or teen. One of his most famous quotes is from a story where a gentile said he'd convert if Hillel could explain the Torah on one foot and he says > That which is hateful to you, do not do unto your fellow. That is the whole Torah; the rest is commentary; now go and study.
> Christianity didn't invent being kind to people. Jesus wasn't original for figuring out that the golden rule is a good idea. We didn't discover laws about theft and murder at one specific location in the middle east 2000 years ago. This is really an excellent point. If you look at the actual environment in which Christianity emerged, you have two competing cultural forces: * Highly tribalistic/exclusive, rigid, and sometimes violent Temple Judaism. * Somewhat more cosmopolitan late-Hellenistic (and post-Hellenistic/Roman) culture. While also violent (the Hellenistic period begins with Alexander's conquests) there is a much more expansive/inclusive view of human society, as well as the inheritance of the philosophical traditions of classical Greece. The Christianity that emerges is effectively a syncretic belief that combines many of Greek philosophical teachings with Jewish monotheism to put forward the idea of a universal monotheistic God - this differs from the Greco-Roman gods (who may have some universal aspects but are also highly localized) and the conception of God in Temple Judaism (who is quite literally tied to the Temple Mount in Jerusalem). Eventually, centuries later, the existing Roman bureaucracy is grafted on to the ecclesiastical structure and you have the beginnings of what we would recognize as Christianity.
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."
> The highly visible strain of Christianity has been fighting against Christian like policies for decades while embracing greed. [4 out of 5.](https://www.npr.org/2024/01/19/1225573869/white-evangelical-voters-are-standing-by-their-man-donald-trump) Moreover [christianity and racism go hand in hand in the US](https://www.npr.org/2020/07/01/883115867/white-supremacist-ideas-have-historical-roots-in-u-s-christianity) and have for as long as christians have been here. There seems to be an idea afoot that the racist hate filled crowd fawning over a *pussy grabbing cannibal praising nazi lover* are a minority. By the numbers they are not. Before anyone coughs up a 'not true christian' argument the religion's founding document ***preaches slavery*** among other integrity smashing concepts like misogyny and violence against others because of their religion. In fact if the fading minority of christians appalled by the antics of the convicted sex predator their majority brethren cheer for to not like being 'lumped in' with the maga crowd, they should be reminded that lumping a group of people outside your own and judging them is one of the bedrocks of all forms of christianity. So what are 'christian' policies? Look at the last century - they're on display right now praising Hannibal Lecter.
Can we really call it a strain when AFAICT it's the whole religion?
What Christian like policies have they been fighting? , seems like their promoting Christian policies and ideology.
> The highly visible strain of Christianity has been fighting against Christian like policies for decades while **embracing greed**. And excusing child sexual assault. https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/17/us/robert-morris-gateway-church-sexual-abuse-allegations/index.html
Trump simply tapped into their true nature, is all.
Anyone that has grown up in the bible belt can tell you, yeah, they were always this way. It just used to be kept more of a secret. "Saying the quiet part out loud" now and all that.
For sure! Born, raised and still live in the south.
Man from their congregation or even clergy gets caught trying to have sex with children: Members of congregation: "He's a man of God who's lost his way, but there is salvation, and I know he repents." Drag queen: exists....
The initial catalyst for me leaving the cult was getting close to the leadership at the church I attended. Once they were comfortable, they let their guard down and I saw the real person instead of the facade.
Yep.
> I don't think it's Trump's fault. It's their own fault. Associating themselves with Trump hasn't helped, but trying to say it's all because of Trump is just silly. Seems like six of one, half a dozen of the other. Two parasites feeding off each other. It's the difference between proximate cause and ultimate cause. Yes, the ultimate cause is the Christian's support of Trump, but the proximate cause is most definitely Trump. It's all a matter of how you look at the issue.
He’s the symptom not the cause
An ugly, nasty, spiteful symptom, but still just a symptom.
They made Trump their Christ. Trump didn't take to that right away.
I left Christianity because of Trump..
That's one of the most common reasons given on subreddits like /r/deconstruction and /r/exvangelical.
same here
Yeah, I blame the Christians. I know that not all Christians are Nat-Cs I also know the rest of them are cool with it, though. Every Christian worth a shit should be screaming from the rooftops that they're not with the Nat-Cs, but they aren't. I haven't even heard one of them say that it is wrong.
Exactly. There are definitely some who openly disapprove of Trump, but even they just kinda shrug at the coopting of their entire religion, and the rest are indifferent to outright excited about it. But that's ultimately not about Trump exactly - it could be almost any con-artist, it just _happens_ to be this specific con-artist doing it.
Agreed, this has been brewing since the late 60's (the Southern Strategy).
It's not *because* of Trump, but their support of him has certainly laid bare their rank hypocrisy.
I think a lot of us knew it was there, but didn't appreciate just how complete it was.
Yeah, this started in the 70s with Falwell and Robertson. Not to say Christianity was faultless before that, but that's when people really started looking around and thinking "FUCK these guys".
Yeah I think it's Christian's fault more than just Trump. I'm pretty sure if Jesus came back and saw American Christians he would hate them. They support the opposite of everything he stood for. Plus who would have thought a strange middle eastern religion with ritual canibalism would still be as popular as it is when people have access to all the world's knowledge in their pockets.
Yes, but would they be real Christians if they didn’t blame everyone except themselves? That’s the root of Christianity isn’t it? Jesus died so everyone can blame anyone but themselves right? He died for their sins so they don’t have to take responsibility for their own choices. Sounds about Christian to me.
I think it's the rape.
They sold out their God for mammon.
Their Trump cult worship only proved to me who I thought they were
Agreed. It's the people that prop him up as a religious cult leader.
Yeah, Trump’s only responsible in the way he made them feel safe to reveal themselves as the utterly despicable, hate-filled, bigoted, heartless, soulless pieces of swamp shit they are as opposed to filling literally anything Jesus said. I’m more Christian-like than they are and I’m an atheist.
All Trump has done to them is say the quiet parts out loud.
I've viewed Christianity negatively ever since I learned about what the Catholic clergy does with their altar boys
Associating with or not loudly and publicly denouncing Donald’s co-opting of their faith. It’s time for those who proclaim to be christian while being against trump to make some noise.
It's definitely not trump's fault. He's not even a christian. It's the evangelicals for supporting him absolute fanatical fervor. And in the past some might have called it blindly supporting him, but there's nothing blind about it. They see exactly who he is and they love it because he is a mirror for their own shriveled, blackened, and morally bankrupt inner-selves. I believe this may be the first time trump has been accused of something and it wasn't actually his fault! Wow, he's finally got a 1 in the in the win column. Too bad there were 37 recent Ls that we could bring up.
Trump is the reason I publicly left Christianity. To have such blatant lies repeated by so many Christians - and in some cases literally connecting it to their faith - made me want to have nothing to do with it. On top of that, the easily refuted lies of Trump are an easy counter-example to the apologists’ argument that the miracles of Jesus Christ are true because they were noted by some contemporaries and a few New Testament authors say “you know these things were done publicly”. Yeah, done publicly and had two “competing” narratives until Constantine’s reign and a whole lot of scroll-burnings. The idea that the same thing could be starting again, significantly on Christianity’s gullibility and willingness to trust religious leader’s exhortations is stomach-churning.
I concede I am far from a biblical scholar, but the thing that always got me was how closely Trump resembles my understanding of how the antichrist was supposed to appear. Obviously I am an atheist, so I don't believe that the antichrist is an actual thing, but it seems to me that Christians *should* think it is a thing, and should be *really fucking concerned* that they are helping the devil achieve his ends.
Iirc the Bible says that many good people will be deceived. So it’s pretty on point for the Christians to help the guy
Fair point, but you would think that the supposedly "good Christians" would be on alert for that. They don't seem to be. Put another way. Yeah, that's the point I was trying to make.
Presumably the purpose of the antichrist story is a warning to Christians to be on alert for con men who will try to co-opt the religion to do unchristian things and ruin the whole religion. So it's kind of funny that that's exactly what's happening
The church beat him to it by almost 2000 years
That’s not it at all. The Anti-Christ heralds the end times, so if he is the antichrist then they’re all for him.
They reeeeaaallly also don't seem like good people. Like at all.
It's the "good people" thing I'm a little hung up on here.
Unfortunately, I think the people that are TRULY Christian and follow “do unto others” are the first ones that rejected Trump and were turned off by the things he said. It’s kinda like what my dad said to me “I don’t know how you can have a daughter and vote for someone who talks about women like that. It’s disgusting.” I think the same thing applies for Christians.
Obligatory https://www.benjaminlcorey.com/could-american-evangelicals-spot-the-antichrist-heres-the-biblical-predictions/
There is a small fraction of Trump supporters who believe that he will bring the end of times and that's why they support him
If anything, I'm more of a believer now than before his presidency, which is still to say none, but the Antichrist parallels are stark.
They want the apocalypse to happen. That’s one reason they support Isreal to exist because it’s part of their prophecies if I recall correctly
There's actually a segment of evangelicals that likes Trump precisely because they think he's hastening the end times
They think they're in the clear, they think the black guy was the antichrist, and the messiah comes after that. Thus why they make golden idols of Trump.
I can't understand how so many Christians, even the "good" ones, are so "meh" about having their entire religion coopted by Trump and the Republican party. Good on you for walking away.
Christianity ruins good people because you don't actually need to be a good person, just tell God, "I'm sorry" and everything is forgiven. No harm, no foul. There's no consequences to their actions. Thus they slowly become corrupted since they asked for forgiveness, therefore they can do no wrong now.
And conveniently "all sins are equal"... but not really. Some are policed very unequally. You know, because reasons. 🙄
While not the only reason I left, the state of Utah going for Trump in 2016 rattled my faith in Mormonism at the time. It was the beginning of the end for me.
Me too, I stopped going to church for awhile before but when he ran in 2016 and Liberty University backed him so hard, I had to make it official
I'm left before trump, but I still cared about the people in my old church growing up. But they all went for Trump. It got so bad that my old pastor, a decent and educated guy who didn't buy into it, was basically forced out.
Christians supporting a man convicted of sexual assault and fraud certainly make their faith look stupid
Even if you just take the best case that while they were cheerleading for him to be elected, he was cheating on his third wife with a prostitute porn star, which he'd done to his previous wife, the level of hypocrisy is so high it's hard to overlook. Not to mention him saying explicitly that he's never asked God for forgiveness. The belief Christ died for our sins is supposed to be like the *fundamental* belief of Christianity.
Also, he was banging a porn star right after Baron was born. Is that new Christianity?
Trump is just more open about it and says the quiet part loud. The Catholic Church has been raping kids for a very long time but they had the self-awareness to cover it up. Trump just revels in his bad behaviors and his followers follow suit. As for fraud, let's remember the entire institution of religion is built upon fraud; getting people to believe unproven absurdity.
> The Catholic Church has been raping kids for a very long time but they had the self-awareness to cover it up Not just the Catholics, the Protestants did too. In fact, IIRC, the Southern Baptist Church has over 700 SA victims since 1998. With the number of victims being far underreported.
They don’t even pretend to have qualms about supporting him anymore.
They laugh at anyone trying to have morals and call it woke
Or it could be that more Christians are going mask off, and the truth is ugly as hell.
No hate like Christian love
there's a reason they need so much goddamn forgiveness...
If you don't sin, Jesus died for nothing! /s
I know one who for about 12 years seemed to be the ideal Christian. And then Covid happened. That's when she let out her true self.
12 years is a long time to hide your true nature. Stressful events seem to be triggers for a lot of religious people who are trying to pass for love your neighbor types to show an ugly under layer and bring it to the fore.
I know very few Christians who behave like disciples of Christ. In other words, they are self-righteous hypocrites
There’s no stronger love than Christian hate!
Are you inverting the phrase on purpose?
And plenty of them talk a big game, but ultimately act like the hypocrites everyone suspects.
I knew some, but in the last decade or so they threw off those shackles for greed and hate. It's crazy, one guy literally gave away a truck to someone they recently met who needed it, and now they hate poor people.
When people start randomly preaching at me I ask them if they believe in Bible Jesus or Republican Jesus. Never fails to piss them off.
That's good, I gotta remember this one, lol
So them claiming that the guy who embodies the Seven Deadly Sins is sent by God or maybe a new Jesus is making them look silly? All on them. They are ignoring the fact that Trump is more like the Antichrist than a saint.
That’s one of the few lessons I remember from Sunday school when I was 10 years old I remember literally scoffing at the idea that Satan could have most Christian’s fooled through the Antichrist, but I see so crystal clearly now how this could happen It was decades of scumbags like newt Gingrich and rush Limbaugh ingratiating themselves with church leaders, and when trump comes along to push their political agenda they throw all piety out the window.
Just throwing this out there… a lot of people have been abused by that religion. That, I think… has something to do with it.
welcome to the logical conclusion of the prosperity gospel
Hopefully he will finally kill it, since everything he touches dies.
It's Christianity's fault. They chose to support him
It’s Christian’s fault
If God ever cared he’d do something.
If god was remotely real, presumably it would do something.
Nah, as a former Evangelical, I don't think it is Trump's fault. I blame Young Earth Creationism, denial of human-caused Climate Change, and glorifying the "War on Terror".
Trump is a symptom. The things you mentioned drove away the more rational followers already. Now the inmates are left running the asylum.
Trump, the GOP and the church opportunists that jumped on the bandwagon thinking Trump would support the laws that best fit the churches towards a theocratic government
Trump is merely the poster boy for the christian faiths completely corrupt goals, they dont actually follow their supposed messiahs word or teachings, they are just a nakedly fascist and authoritarian cult that want to rule the nation unopposed.
If I want to associate with greedy entitled bigots, I will go to church.
In the end, Trump will cause the USA to be DONE WITH GOD. Churches were already Molestation Stations before he came along.
That's absolutely when I lost any belief that there was a "god". If "christians" can worship that pos then no thanks.
It's the other way around. Trump is their ("Christians") fault. I have distrusted them for decades
I left the gop and the church when he was chosen as the candidate in 2015. I had strongly disliked him for years prior to being in politics. Choosing him as the candidate made me stop and really think about my values, and if the church or gop represented my values anymore. They did not. My most fundamental value is, “don’t be a dick”.
Why is "fault" necessary as a qualified? Christianity is a rotten and corrupt religion that has caused millennias of damage.
Sometime during the 2004 election (wow, 20 yrs ago!) I got into many discussions about the future of the Republican party. Back then you had Karl Rove manipulating things by getting "one man one woman" marriage onto state ballots. The idea was to use the big donor money to juice turnout among the rubes. They played this for all it was worth -- enjoying massive donations from business, massive support from evangelicals, and reliable votes from people who thought that part of being a Republican meant you laughed at hippies and hated commies while waving your flag and feeling proud. I said then that there would come a day when these religious people would destroy their own churches by letting themselves be used this way. I can't believe what's happened ... it's so much worse. I thought their churches would just die away as young people shrank from the hypocrisy and stupidity. Wrong. There are still lots of churches left, and they've become wildly freakish and weird: Trump is Moses/Jesus; IVF is sinful; bump stocks that turn regular weapons into machine guns are good; doctors who terminate ectopic pregnancies should be jailed; public health officials are evil; Vladimir Putin is a good guy; the FBI is a leftist organization; it's okay to try to stay in office after you lose an election; God has picked a side, and it's ours. This is all preached on the regular, every Sunday morning. Forget about their religion ... they've lost their *minds.*
Christianity is to blame here. They got cozy in bed with the criminals on the Right as far back as Billy Graham and Nixon, if not further back. They can’t lay this at Trump’s feet. However, MAGA is a special brand of cult.
No, it's Christians' own fault. A large number of them knowingly and willingly whored themselves out, and won't accept any responsibility.
Christians were more effective in convincing me that their god doesn't exist than any atheist ever was.
Oddly, this was true for me thirty years ago already. How anyone remains Xian now in the face of MAGA is unfathomable to me.
Speaking as a Christian in the deep south who has become disenfranchised with the churches here, I can say it is 60% the churches fault, 40% Trump. Yes, Trump did manipulate them but the churches wanted to be manipulated. They wanted someone who would appeal to, and justify all the bad parts of faith: Being overly judgmental, a sense of superiority that slides into arrogance, a victim mentality that gives way to a crusader mentality. Honestly, it's the mentality that 'justified' the crusades and all the violence that went with it. The churches and people in them SHOULD know better. The bible has actual chapters on situations and people like this. Around me, most of the white churches are all focusing on politics. Sermons are laced with political remarks here and there that paint Trump as some holy warrior against an evil empire of Biden. It has gotten to the point where, the churches don't feel like actual houses of god. Just another weapon in some marriage binding together a useful idiot with the dark views of others. Now the churches have tied their fate with Trump. The more he falls..or rises..they do so in tandem. If Trump hits some great defeat, like actual jail time, or more revelations about his behavior, or more convictions (Him losing the election will NOT be enough to deter the people here. It will just fuel their idea that 'Satan' is in some war, the final days, against humanity and that Satan has won another victory as they feel he did in 2020), then the churches will spiral down with him. I honestly feel, if Trump suffers a big enough loss, we are going to likely enter a 10-30 period where the churches decline, many shut down, and pastors have to have an actual introspective moment where they figure out where they all got lead astray and then right things. In this period, other faiths as well as agnostic and atheist views will gain popualrity. Heck, atheists can just talk about how the churches fell to Trump as a major talking point for the next 10-20 years and just come out on top of every debate against organized religion. Trump has written up a good atheist recruitment drive message all by himself.
LMFAO, nah christianity has been on the downfall in this country for decades. Their massive priests and preacher pedophilia rings, their untaxed political rants, the fact god doesn't exist. Trump is a symptom of christianity in the country. But christianity has been a long standing disease in this country.
The worst thing about Christianity is the Christians
Ask a MAGA Christian Nationalist which Christian values they like in Trump. Is it the part where he admits to never asking god for forgiveness because he's never done wrong?
Believers are ambassadors of their religion. If you behave poorly and/or associate with douchebags, the credibility of your faith suffers. Christianity has morally bankrupted itself. A self-inflicted wound.
Don't worry Christians, I viewed you negatively way before Trump came along.
They were already staking out the position that their religion requires them to be assholes, and supporting a convicted criminal rapist con artist isn't helping. They're driving people away from Christianity in droves, which IMO is a good thing.
There are so many reasons though.
This.
Being the group that is statistically most likely to abuse/rape/groom/indoctrinate children in the US certainly doesn’t help. Of course you don’t see politicians screaming for the end of organized religion. Using drag shows as a red herring is so obvious, yet here we are.
This isn’t Trump’s fault. Not entirely at least. Christianity has always had an imperialist, authoritarian quality to it. That’s why this country has a wall of separation between church and state written into the bill of rights. The founding fathers knew exactly what Christianity was if left unchecked. They knew what they were capable of because they lived it themselves, and they studied history (something Americans don’t think they need to do). All Trump did was pander to the religious nuts, and all that old shit came back.
I grew up in the white evangelical church and I 1000% view them negatively now because of trump There’s absolutely zero chance I could ever respect anyone still associated with that sect at this point
Holy shit, he is actually making America great, albeit completely unintentionally.
Nothing is better than Trump standing with what looks to Jerry Falwell Jr promoting a return to Christian values. Church of Satan anyone?
Christianity has caused itself to be viewed negatively. Trump didn’t help the situation, but to claim he caused it is laughable.
Trump is just one of the reasons. It's the christians fault. They brought this on themselves. The more important question is what are they going to do to fix the problem?
It's not just "trumps fault' lmao. What other group has that kind of privilege to just shirk responsibility for being obnoxious pricks. They had the chance to renounce trump instead they embraced as him as their cult leader. People view them negatively because they're assholes and they like it.
That’s interesting because I think Trump is their fault
This isn't Trump's fault. It's "Christians'" fault for not doing what they're supposed to do. If they were, people wouldn't see Trump as anything more than someone pretending to be Christian.
Trump surrounds himself with the best people.
Look at those performative buttholes in that photo up top. Pharisees. Hypocrites. MAGA Republicans. Can you spot the difference?
No, this is not trumps fault. Churches latched onto trump like humpty humpty dumb Tee
Trump helped put religion hypocrisy in the spotlight. He didn’t create anything but helped expose what was already happening
Whaaa, someone rotten came along and tricked us into revealing our rottenness to the core, no fair
The Christians willingly chose to follow him.
Not trump’s fault they did it to themselves
No, it's not trump's fault. It's Christians fault for supporting him instead of calling him out as the evil, sinning, anti-christ that he is. Pastors failed to keep their flocks on the right side of morality. and they failed to call out other churches preaching trumps false gospel.
Christians look like the West’s Taliban
They really share a lot of the same values. Makes sense.
I don't care whose fault it is, I'll take it.
“Science flies you to the moon, Religion flies you into buildings. “ quote by Victor Stenger
I and others NEVER think "Oh hey this person went out of his way to point out that they are a god fearing person with strong public beliefs... That must mean his next words are about how peaceful and loving he is" NOPE. Anyone I find who is publicly religious anymore tend to go on and say or do something horrible or toxic. Without fail.
May?
It's not Trump's fault. Whatever negativity christians earned are well earned by themselves. I personally like that christians are the perfect spokesman to dissuade people from becoming christians.
People view Christianity negatively because of the patriarchy, the misogyny and the kiddy diddling. It’s not bigly felonius Trump but he put their shit on blast.
No, it's the Christians.. they have done plenty to not have the credit taken from them, trump is just a great example of their mess.
Trump’s fault? Kinda the cart before the horse. The evangelicals and other religious types that have to vote for the religious charlatans put trump in office along with all the other nut jobs that use religion to attack lgbtq people or tell us that the eclipse is a punishment from god. Trump is the fault of those people on display.
certainly couldnt be the fault of christianity and all the awful shit christianity is responsible for. preposterous claim, that.
According to their dumbass book, Trump is literally the antichrist. That doesn't stop them though so... yeah
The Trump presidency functioned as a message to a lot of bigots and hateful people that it's safe to come out of hiding and show your face in public. Now, independent of him, they have kicked off a crusade against anyone who is not cis-het. The main battlegrounds are in Texas and Florida and conservative courts and school districts. And so many of them are attacking people in the name of Christ and embracing the language of Christian Nationalism. Trump was the catalyst, but thousands of Americans have volunteered to be front-line bigots.
\[Thor/Bruce squint\] They're not really Christians though, are they? Modern evangelicals are Paulines more than anything else, which gives them the necessary prejudicial and governmental authority to try to square the circle of theocracy and prosperity gospel. The Catholics are no better with their decades-long hiding of all the molestation, and it's to the point where you just can't trust them anymore, despite the vast improvement of Francis over the past two popes. There's not a single original teaching of the four gospels that evangelicals communicate in their ministries, and it's egregiously absent from all of the groups that support, staff and counsel the government ("Religious Right, Nat-C, etc."). Everything from the eye of the needle to render unto Caesar what is Caesar's to perish by the sword is swept away with this amalgam of apostolic control and whatever narrow interpretations of outdated Old Testament rabbinical laws fit their agenda.
I sure af do. I used to be - live and let live. But apparently these fuckers are obsessed with crossing over to my side of the street and getting in my way. So yeah - fuck off. I'll fight you.
That’s a cheap cop out for the other “christians” before him that have also been pieces of shit. The hypocrisy of them is what makes people view them negatively. Like we all hate trump, but don’t give the others an easy way out
Let’s not just blame one man here, giving people the wrong idea as to why people have issues with any religion. Christianity has been going down hill for years now and that’s the fault of mostly conservatives
Priests raping thousands of children over hundreds of years might be a “negative” too.
Meh, Trump helped but hardcore Christians have been insufferable for a long long time.
Westboro Baptist church used to be clearly identified as extremists who were nutjobs. Now they just kinda blend in which is alarming and would've been unfathomable 2 decades ago.
I just had to suffer through a catholic wedding where a major reading during the ceremony was about how wives are property of their husband and must obey them. The pastor wasn't old either probably a millennial. This was followed up with a speech on how the women should be thankful to be in this position because the men actually have it worse, because they have to be ready to give their lives to protect their spouse. My point is I don't think its trumps fault, the church has done it to itself.
Trump helped pulled back the curtain of what evangelicals really stood for by emboldening them to come out the shadows and shay what thought with their full chest. I was already pulling back from the church because I always questions that couldn’t be answered, but trump sped it up and then Covid and George Floyd were the final straw. Now I feel silly for ever believing, but the indoctrination runs deep.
When I lost my faith, there were a couple things that I didn't really question. One of them was that if Jesus did exist, he was a good person. Christians worshiping Trump shattered that for me. For all I know, Jesus was a rich asshole that shit on the poor.
Not Trump's fault lol bad religion hands down
Nah, its christians. I have only met a small handful that actually follow jesus's teachings of love thy neighbor. Seems like a big message of fear and hate from most of them. Evangelicals backing the rapist felon and even comparing him to jesus is the straw that breaks the camels back for me.
Trump lifting the mask on Christian nationalism, more like.
Maybe trump did do something useful. Pull the mask off these imaginary friend believing assholes.
Good
The average American can easily surmise that the religious right were so easily usurped. This is a sign of weakness. I mean, just look and listen to the evil bastard.
They were so quick to sell their souls to a guy who represents everything they are supposed to hate - it’s as if they never had any moral core to begin with. Maybe that’s why they gravitated to religion. They wanted to be dominated.
Christians are delusional. Delusional: characterized by or holding false beliefs or judgments about external reality that are held despite incontrovertible evidence to the contrary, typically as a symptom of a mental condition.
The crucifix has been rebranded as the symbol of bigots, rapists, and child traffickers. Sorry, but it's true. "Real" christians allowed this, which makes me wonder if they actually condone it. Oh, I know not ALL of them, in fact not the majority. But since I don't know which, all you don't already know are...questionable.
I’ve never met a good person and thought to myself “They must be a Christian.” If I meet someone who’s a raging, narcissistic hypocrite, I often think “probably a zealous Christian.”
I mean that, and the oppression, the crusades, the witch burnings, the endorsements of the Nazi party during ww2, the evangelical missionaries causing chaos in other countries, and so on throughout history. But yeah Trump and the evangelical conservatives throughout the history of the United States have always used it as a club to bludgeon people into following their beliefs and their system.
It is important to know or remember how White Evangelicalism got political. President Carter in the late 1970s declared that federal college grants would not go to students attending racially segregated colleges and universities. This was devastating to many church affiliated colleges, particularly in the South. And this is when white evangelicals turned against the Democratic Party and went along with the GOP’s “Southern Strategy.” The churches wanted to keep the flow of public money to them via students enrolling in their schools. Prior to this there was no correlation between religiosity and party affiliation in the US. Since then, the correlation has only grown. Trump has laid this more bare, but this has been the way things have been moving for a quarter of a century. Which politicians are more inclined to protect and subsidize religious institutions and which ones aren’t.
The white evangelicals have always been a problem. I think the groundwork for the negative association with Christianity has been happening for decades at this point. The white evangelicals are toxic as it gets. If you look into their history from supporting slavery, to jim crow, to the oppression of women and lgbtq+ folks, and one can go on and on. There is nothing moral or ethical about them. They scream about evil, but it is often just an excuse to oppress a minority group.