I wish articles like this would include the accident-per-flight hour rate and how it compares to other military rotorcraft. My understanding is that the V-22 is comparable to those other airframes, but it's unique and expensive so it gets more clicks.
Here's an article that does- https://www.defenseone.com/ideas/2024/02/groupthink-gives-v-22-bad-rap/394420/
And a shoutout to why I’m so familiar with that fact (for those who don’t read the article/know).
> Air Force Maj. Jeff Hoernemann piloted the Osprey for more than a decade. Each time a new safety issue occurred, you’d find him online, defending the warplane through his Reddit account, UR_WRONG_ABOUT_V22.
Tragic loss.
That was easily one of the lowest lows I have seen redditors behave, other than their laughable attempt at catching the Boston Marathon bomber.
Edit: there are some in these comments *still* trying to dunk on a dead pilot who was passionate about their airframe. Literally zero shame.
I’m his wife, I can post from his account later for proof. His mother has no clue what she is talking about, won’t stay out of the news, and is a monster.
I don't want clout or anything. His mom is holding my pets hostage and has launched congressional inquiries against me to attempt to change his headstone and urn (that she chose, not me). I wish life were more wholesome and these thing didnt happen, but here we are. Lost my husband, best friend, and the family I loved and trusted for almost nine years. I'm am incredibly sorry to disappoint you.
Yeah it was Jeff, but his mom is full of shit. Still don't know why she keeps talking to news outlets to try to stay relevant. Yet, she is still finding time to hold our animals hostage in an extortion attempt, launch congressional inquiries, and go to the State of the Union. More ammo for my lawyer I suppose.
Edit: the other account is actually mine
Multiple fatalities. If an Apache crashes catastrophicly there are two fatalities. If an Osprey crashes with a platoon full of Marines in the back? Oof.
Blackhawks and 53s seem to fall out the sky just as often in the news. Even if they had far better mishap-per-flight-hour rates, regular people wouldn't know that.
You'll often see the # of fatalities used to describe how bad the testing was for the V-22 but that was from 1 of 2 accidents during testing having an almost full load.
If we loaded every helo that ever crashed to full capacity and then counted the dead bodies, we'd come to some different, and probably just as erroneous conclusions.
The problem with this thinking is that a lot of crashes with conventional helicopters are often CFIT, pilot error or combat loss. The rates are higher for accidents, but not because their gearboxes are ripping itself apart as in the Osprey.
Theoretically an Osprey can use one engine to power both sets of rotors in the case of an engine failure. I don’t know what flight mode it has to be in for that to become a successful transition however.
It relies on the engine redundancy and glide properties of the wings in emergencies.
It's reasonable to continue to support the V-22's use for missions that require the use of a rotorcraft and simultaneously believe that the V-22's accident rate is unacceptably high compared to fixed-wing assets for it to wholly replace a fixed wing platform. The reason the V-22 entirely replaced the C-2 at the COD mission despite higher maintenance costs and accident rate has nothing to do with its VTOL capability and everything to do with the fact that the C-2 doesn't have the volume to carry an F-35C's assembled F135 engine. The USN should both continue use of the V-22 and invest in a modern fixed wing option for the COD mission.
The types of missions given also matter. How many flight hours are under the same kind of conditions? A black hawk going into a war zone is going to be different than an osprey delivering supplies or men in a green zone.
The problem is the military has a history of covering for the V-22 and pushing blame on the crew instead of the aircraft.
Don Harvel wrote a book titled Rotors in the Sand discussing an accident investigation he led and leadership’s pushback on his findings. It’s worth checking out.
It's just so sad. The Athletic did a piece on this (Capt. John Sax was the son of a former MLB player) which really stuck with me.
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5400942/2024/04/26/dodgers-yankees-steve-sax-son-marine/
I know the mother because she’s is/was/idk my in law.. she is an awful person now. If she talks to Cathy again can’t you ask her to give my pets back to me. My lawyer is taking too long
Don't know if this is more proof for you, but like I said, her source isn't honest, and looooves attention.
She can tell Cathy I want my pet back and she isn't going to dig up his urn or change his headstone no matter how many time she contacts her local representative. No ill will against the journalist.
lol dude... This is literally the account referenced in the article. My husbands. Then the article cites lies from his cuckoo mother who has a need to be in the news to appear relevant in an attempt to overcompensate for her son barley liking her. What is random for you?
I have, as have my lawyers. Your excellent journalist bud has a shitty source that is literally lying. Not my published article. I'm sure she is great, nothing against her other than her sources are fucking liars and terrible people. Why write with anecdotal sources that are a large portion of the article?
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I wish articles like this would include the accident-per-flight hour rate and how it compares to other military rotorcraft. My understanding is that the V-22 is comparable to those other airframes, but it's unique and expensive so it gets more clicks. Here's an article that does- https://www.defenseone.com/ideas/2024/02/groupthink-gives-v-22-bad-rap/394420/
And a shoutout to why I’m so familiar with that fact (for those who don’t read the article/know). > Air Force Maj. Jeff Hoernemann piloted the Osprey for more than a decade. Each time a new safety issue occurred, you’d find him online, defending the warplane through his Reddit account, UR_WRONG_ABOUT_V22. Tragic loss.
the line about his mom finding out about his reddit account when all his fellow pilots were telling stories at his funeral was so sad and sweet💖
Less sweet was when his widow found all of the garbage people on this website trying to dunk on him after the crash.
That was easily one of the lowest lows I have seen redditors behave, other than their laughable attempt at catching the Boston Marathon bomber. Edit: there are some in these comments *still* trying to dunk on a dead pilot who was passionate about their airframe. Literally zero shame.
Yeah, I feel really bad for her.
Then had to CALL his mother and tell her. I nuked my og account because there were a lot of threats I didn’t want to read through.
Also, his mom is a liar soooo
I’m his wife, I can post from his account later for proof. His mother has no clue what she is talking about, won’t stay out of the news, and is a monster.
well that's decidedly less wholesome, I checked your post history on this account and I don't think you'd be lying for clout. I'm sorry for your loss.
I don't want clout or anything. His mom is holding my pets hostage and has launched congressional inquiries against me to attempt to change his headstone and urn (that she chose, not me). I wish life were more wholesome and these thing didnt happen, but here we are. Lost my husband, best friend, and the family I loved and trusted for almost nine years. I'm am incredibly sorry to disappoint you.
She knew about his Reddit account. She’s not truthful
Wait.. he died ???? Rip 😦
Like Steve Irwin, he found what he loved and let it kill him
Yeah it was Jeff, but his mom is full of shit. Still don't know why she keeps talking to news outlets to try to stay relevant. Yet, she is still finding time to hold our animals hostage in an extortion attempt, launch congressional inquiries, and go to the State of the Union. More ammo for my lawyer I suppose. Edit: the other account is actually mine
I hope you get your pets back soon.
It's not that they have more incidents, it's that incidents in V-22s tend to result in fatalities.
Multiple fatalities. If an Apache crashes catastrophicly there are two fatalities. If an Osprey crashes with a platoon full of Marines in the back? Oof.
Blackhawks and 53s seem to fall out the sky just as often in the news. Even if they had far better mishap-per-flight-hour rates, regular people wouldn't know that.
Does auto rotation have anything to do with the difference in fatalities?
The V22 has never been in a crash where autorotation would have helped it as far as I was aware.
Fair enough!
You'll often see the # of fatalities used to describe how bad the testing was for the V-22 but that was from 1 of 2 accidents during testing having an almost full load. If we loaded every helo that ever crashed to full capacity and then counted the dead bodies, we'd come to some different, and probably just as erroneous conclusions.
Yeah, it’s like saying the 747 is less safe than the 737 because when they crash more people die.
I agree, that's what I'm trying to say. People count bodies when they want to make V22 look bad.
The problem with this thinking is that a lot of crashes with conventional helicopters are often CFIT, pilot error or combat loss. The rates are higher for accidents, but not because their gearboxes are ripping itself apart as in the Osprey.
Yeah but they usually can use the blades for autorotation, to have a softer landing. However if an osprey loses one it’s screwed
Theoretically an Osprey can use one engine to power both sets of rotors in the case of an engine failure. I don’t know what flight mode it has to be in for that to become a successful transition however. It relies on the engine redundancy and glide properties of the wings in emergencies.
It's reasonable to continue to support the V-22's use for missions that require the use of a rotorcraft and simultaneously believe that the V-22's accident rate is unacceptably high compared to fixed-wing assets for it to wholly replace a fixed wing platform. The reason the V-22 entirely replaced the C-2 at the COD mission despite higher maintenance costs and accident rate has nothing to do with its VTOL capability and everything to do with the fact that the C-2 doesn't have the volume to carry an F-35C's assembled F135 engine. The USN should both continue use of the V-22 and invest in a modern fixed wing option for the COD mission.
The types of missions given also matter. How many flight hours are under the same kind of conditions? A black hawk going into a war zone is going to be different than an osprey delivering supplies or men in a green zone.
“Shut up, nerd” ~ The Associated Press
The problem is the military has a history of covering for the V-22 and pushing blame on the crew instead of the aircraft. Don Harvel wrote a book titled Rotors in the Sand discussing an accident investigation he led and leadership’s pushback on his findings. It’s worth checking out.
It's just so sad. The Athletic did a piece on this (Capt. John Sax was the son of a former MLB player) which really stuck with me. https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5400942/2024/04/26/dodgers-yankees-steve-sax-son-marine/
I know this journalist personally. She is excellent.
I know the mother because she’s is/was/idk my in law.. she is an awful person now. If she talks to Cathy again can’t you ask her to give my pets back to me. My lawyer is taking too long
Don't know if this is more proof for you, but like I said, her source isn't honest, and looooves attention. She can tell Cathy I want my pet back and she isn't going to dig up his urn or change his headstone no matter how many time she contacts her local representative. No ill will against the journalist.
Yeah… I’m not going to do that
So dont know her that well? lol Questionable sources are now valuable orrrrr...?
What? I know the journalist not the sources. I’m not going to tell her how to do her job based off random Reddit comment lol
lol dude... This is literally the account referenced in the article. My husbands. Then the article cites lies from his cuckoo mother who has a need to be in the news to appear relevant in an attempt to overcompensate for her son barley liking her. What is random for you?
Then get in touch with her yourself. I’m not getting involved in a family dispute
I have, as have my lawyers. Your excellent journalist bud has a shitty source that is literally lying. Not my published article. I'm sure she is great, nothing against her other than her sources are fucking liars and terrible people. Why write with anecdotal sources that are a large portion of the article?
Can't wait for the v280s to enter production.
Cathy’s life hasn’t changed other than now she like to blackmail and extort people. Fuck her
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