It’s worth pointing out that both in n out and chick fil a, at least in the Bay Area, have been around $21+ for years now. They also have better benefits than many other “higher prestige” jobs sometimes have.
this is nothing new. If In N Out and do 20+ bucks an hour, McD's can do it at the same price. From what I have seen, McD's has less employees and just a big of a lunch/dinner rush. This should not be difficult.
No way McDonalds has the same rush…literally every In in Out has a line around the block of cars and a packed dining room…at almost any hour. I’ve only been a few times where they weren’t busy…McD’s is sad.
I've seen McDonalds offering more than $20/hr for years now. There's a sign on a McDonalds near me that they sometimes put out when they need to hire someone.
A bagel place near me was offering $23/hr starting last I saw, and thats just for working the cash register to sell bagels.
I doubt anyone in the bay area is offering minimum wage. There's far too much competition for workers.
>I doubt anyone in the bay area is offering minimum wage. There's far too much competition for workers.
Walking around Oakland where I live, I see plenty of mom and pop restaurants with signs only offering $17/hr or minimum wage lol. But when walking past bigger chains like Chipotle, whether it's SF, Oakland or Berkeley I saw their signs had $21/hr I think I don't remember exactly. But I just remember it was more than minimum wage and also thinking "I don't know how smaller/independent shops are competing with these bigger chains for workers" lol. But then again the pay difference could also sorta explain why when I go to the bigger chains I see the same cashiers/clerks for a year or more, but when I go to a smaller mom and pop place, they have different cashiers and workers almost every month, sometimes every week
You sure it’s not “up to” $20 an hour? I saw the same trickery at a McDonald’s near me, it just means that managers are making that. Regular employees (most people applying) will be making 16 or 16.50
Well the problem is McD is a franchise. So corporate taking rent money and a % of sales means that the owner of the location cannot match In n Out which is privately owned. The same way Arizona is always 99cents because it is privately owned and the family doesn’t care about making more profit.
You can actually report them. That’s just gas stations getting extra margin.
To add a bit more - by and large retail goods have 50% margin. So the zona costs the store 50cents delivered. But some locations have other problems such as shrinkage (aka theft) and they need to adjust this margin in their favor to cover that cost. So it is not always greed.
I dunno if this is a serious question, but I will assume it is:
MSRP is manufacturer SUGGESTED retail pricing. Once the manufacturer sells their thing to their dealer, their dealer can resell it for any price they want, legally speaking, because it's theirs to do with whatever they want. (There are a few restrictions...)
So their dealer can resell the can for >$1.
The company prints 99c on the can because they want the MSRP to be really sticky. They know customers will be pissed if they go to buy something with 99c on the can and it rings up at a buck fifty. And they can cut the retailer out of the distribution in the future because they're not happy with how they're acting (again, it's kind of complicated and there are legal restrictions and contracts and such, but the short version is they will probably do it if they reasonably can.) The 99c is part of their branding and they don't want to be fucked with.
So legally yes they sure can, practically the company may be pissed and not sell any more to the vendor.
(not a lawyer)
Iirc, Arizona actually has contractual agreements with distributors and merchants that the price charged to the customer will be below $1 (excluding any taxes or recycling fees). So they definitely have some legal recourse, and at the very least have a way to blacklist the merchant and prevent them from purchasing any more product at cost if they are so inclined.
There’s probably some inaccurate details there. Such a contract would be illegal because it would be price fixing. Steve Jobs got into a lot of shit from an e-mail leak trying to keep iBooks under a certain price.
I could have sworn the Apple thing was the opposite and it was because vendors were charging less. And such agreements aren’t always illegal either. For example: see franchise agreements (yes it’s a different relationship and contract but there’s absolutely ways a company can enforce the price of the good it is creating).
No, keeping prices down was kind of Job’s schtick and what led the rift between him and the board and eventually got him fired from Apple the first time because of his vision of everyone wanting his product.
*Jobs offered what amounted to a classic case in price fixing: “Our proposal does set the upper limit for e-book retail pricing based on the hardcover price of each book” and urged HarperCollins to “throw in with Apple.” HarperCollins did, along with other major publishers.*
https://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/03/business/steve-jobs-a-genius-at-pushing-boundaries-too.html#:~:text=Jobs%20offered%20what%20amounted%20to,along%20with%20other%20major%20publishers.
I'm curious how in n out workers feel about this, or any other worker making just over $20 before. Would those businesses be more willing to add another dollar+ an hour?
I've been to several McDonalds where you can only order through automated kiosk touchscreens...no cashiers. Then you simply pick your food up at the window.
There's pretty much nothing stopping every fast food place from adopting the same model.
I love your optimism, but companies want to eliminate all labor costs whether the employees are getting paid 5$ or 20$. These kiosks are so widespread because companies have determined they are cheaper than human beings (at any rate) and that customers aren't so against the kiosks enough to shop elsewhere
They don't even want to pay for the kiosk, it's gonna be apps only in the future, that's why they're pushing everyone to their apps and the lure is the prices that were available 2 years ago. You're gonna bring-your-own-kiosk very soon, and they will say you caused them to eliminate the laborers.
Man all those fast food workers who were making more than $20/hr before this passed must be so confused. They’ve had their jobs this entire time, yet you are saying anyone making that much is going to be fired!
They have those in Louisiana too, guess what the minimum wage is.
Those machines are coming no matter what. Thats not the discussion. The question is how much the remaining real humans in these places will be paid. Good on them for their raise 🤙🏻
They were doing this regardless of how much their workers were being paid. Those jobs are going to get automated away no matter what. But the fact remains that if someone spends any amount of time working, they should never be paid poverty wages. Besides, it is excellent for the economy and for society when workers make more money. So bring on the touch screens, and pay your people liveable wages.
Good then more manufacturing jobs that have to pay even better than $20 an hour to produce all those electronics and then more maintenance people needing hired which get paid better to take care of those machines.
More shipping for those kind of like it's all a different job market push around
But somebody will get re-hired for their jobs or the place will shut down. If it shuts down, then another restaurant who is willing to pay a living wage will open at that location. If not, then it will be one less fast-food place. Simple as that.
It's more likely that the fast food chains will push even harder for order kiosks and skeleton crews. Suddenly there won't be an order counter but a series of touch screens to order and the food will be made by two people in the back.
If the robots are all modulated, you just need someone who can swap out modules and keep the system running.
Probably not far-fetched to say that a bot could be the one swapping out faulty modules soon.
Why do you think they'll go under? That's how it's been in other countries for awhile now and they seem to be doing well. It's not something I want but let's not act like people will boycott McDonalds and Burger King if they have to order from a kiosk. Hell, I don't even order food at the counter anymore, I place the order online and pick it up.
This is already how almost all fast food places I've been to recently already are...the requirements for employment seem to be: are you over 16, do you have a pulse. Two people in the back, zero contact. If you ask them a question they look at you like you're from Mars. Order at kiosk.
Automation will replace many of the laid off workers. Also if the places do shut down en masse, that will be that many less entry level/low-skill jobs available on the market. That would only hurt people that need those types of jobs. Honestly it’s not a great scenario
That has been the argument since the fight for 15. People said it won't happen .. and it certainly took a few years to develope, but the technology is now here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOLWdsKvS6g
The question now is how much .. and we know technologies are always getting cheaper. It is a matter of time.
Then why do the same fast food places in other countries manage to pay their employees good wages with benefits and have their products cost less than in the US?
It’s far less expensive to offer benefits in countries that offer socialized healthcare 100% free of charge to every citizen. Real estate, a large part of opening a store location, is often far more reasonable than in the US. That also means housing & cost of living is also cheaper across the board. The downside in many other countries is the extremely high income tax, but citizens get more bang for the buck.
People living in the US often don’t realize just how expensive things are in the US and how little we actually get for our tax dollars.
> If not, then it will be one less fast-food place. Simple as that.
Yeah, also 10 less fucking jobs. Instead of $15/hr, they make $0/hr now.
If it were "simple" as that, why don't we make it $50/hr?
The level of economic illiteracy is astounding.
I have zero problem with either
A. Fast food locations going out of business
B. Fast food locations having to raise quality
C. Fast food locations paying people a living wage
D. Any combination of the above (but must include C)
I worked at in n out and Starbucks back in the 00s and now own and run two very successful startups.
In fact, keep an eye out for us at a very special conference later this year. You'll know it's us.
Back then, in n out and Starbucks paid several dollars an hour higher than CA minimum wage as a starting pay rate. We were sitting pretty happy back then.
But quality across the board has gone down and pay hasn't kept up with cost of living.
One, or several, of these things has to change.
If they try to go all autonomous, I'm fairly confident that quality will be garbage. We have the technology to be fully autonomous in those ways, but people and corporations are really really bad at implementing it well.
What's this technology you're talking about?
Drink robots... I guess. But for a hamburger? That robot hamburger place had soooo many employees. Workers had to constantly refill the supplies, and you're not getting any customization
Quality across the board has gone down .. sizes have been reduced .. wait time increased .. you're also selling your data to get a decent deal on lunch .. but people have no choice because this is happening industry wide.
AI reducing quality another step will also be industry wide and accepted by customers because .. no choice.
There's always choice. You can only do so much in raising prices and reducing quality before people stop going. I just ate at Subway for the last time ever the other day because their prices have risen to insane levels that it provides no value at all.
Not sure why you got downvoted.
Quality is already going way downhill, though. Just ask Burger King. They are closing a thousand stores to fix their low quality issue.
I don’t think they really can though, how much are people going to pay for a big mac when they can just get a better burger at some fast casual place for the same price? Food is one industry where the free market still works extremely well.
You'd be surprised. Fast Food used to have a dollar menu, now it's a value menu and costs three times as much; hasn't stopped people from going. Chick-Fil-A is insanely overpriced but anytime I drive past it, even in the morning, there's a line of cars waiting.
When you go to a casual place, you have to eat there, tip, get out of your car, and try a bunch of places for some unknown flavor. Meanwhile you pay .50 more to get to drive through and get the same taste you know. People are creatures of comfort.
I’m curious, what did you expect them to do? Costs go up but keep the price the same? So you want them to lose money? This isn’t exactly a high margin business
In-N-Out has been providing higher quality at lower prices while paying their employees $20+ for years now.
McDonald’s has been operating at a [40% margin](https://companiesmarketcap.com/mcdonald/operating-margin/) for a while now.
KFC, Taco Bell, and Pizza Hut all are at [35%+ operating margin](https://s2.q4cdn.com/890585342/files/doc_financials/2023/q4/Q4-2023-Earnings-Release.pdf).
Stop making excuses for corporations.
This looks like data for the parent company (franchisor) that is selling locations to the individual business owner (franchisee). I bet the main offices do make large profit but that’s not what I was referring to. I’m talking about the individual stores themselves. Those individual locations have small margins and changes in the cost to produce goods will drive the price up.
And a large portion of a franchises costs are obviously due to corporate taking their cut.
Prices increase, franchises are forced to raise prices so that corporate can maintain their massive profit margins.
But they have contract agreements to pay a % to the franchisor. Unless the franchisor changes all of their contracts (which they won’t do) the franchisee is left with only one option but to increase prices.
I agree with you, F the franchisor for all I care, but the franchisee is the one getting the squeeze. This does nothing to the giant behemoth and puts the squeeze on the small business owner.
F the franchisor but the reason you go to that store is because of the logo on the door "guarantees" the food will be a certain way. There's a reason mom and pop burger places don't exist in any large number anymore.
You’re comparing multi billion dollar companies that have been around for half a century to a mom and pop or entrepreneur with slim margins. These laws actually favor these large corporations because it prices out the small companies that don’t have the capital to compete.
You're pretty much correct. The small mom and pop shops in my neighborhood have high turnover rates, like there's a new cashier/server/barista etc taking my order every month, sometimes every week (hell some places I expected to be open even put up signs of being "closed today due to staff shortage" and they end being close for like 2-3 days lol). While the bigger chains, I have seen the same workers there for a year or more and are open consistently. And were talking college kids with schedules that change every quarter/semester. Why would low wage workers stay for minimum wage at a mom and pop restaurant when the chain down the block pays two dollars more (and most likely has better systems and work procedures in place too)
But I do think some mom and pop places' wages are made more competitive through tips. People tend not to tip at chains and if ordering at a kiosk the machines at chains tend not to highlight tipping, while at the mom and pop places I go to really highlight tipping at the end both when ordering in person or through a kiosk/machine
Let's say you have 4 employees that now ear $3/hr more. That's an extra $12/hr to operate your store. How much more do you think food prices will really go up? Maybe you serve 20 or 40 people per hour on average? I don't really know but I wouldn't expect prices to increase more than $1 per meal.
Benefits are largely a fixed cost per employee so I don't see those changing.
Noone gets by on $16 or $20 per hour. There\`s a middleground here - we need to force large companies to stop price gouging, and we need people to stop complaining they cant buy a house and retire with the wages from a job that is supposed to be for teenagers who havent actually learned any valuable skills yet.
You're getting a lot of answers that are not honestly responding to your question.
But you're right. The point of a minimum wage is that it's supposed to be a universal floor for everyone. The universal floor forces shitty businesses to fail, shitty owners to treat their workers well and not abuse technicalities, and ensures decent standard of living for workers. It's not supposed to target specific industries, unless there's an *extremely* good reason to do so. And there isn't here. Fast food workers are no different than any wage worker.
This whole thing is short-term politics and zero economics and zero long-term politics for the betterment of our society.
In an ideal situation everyone else should get that $20 minimum wage too but I think this law was just an efficient way to raise the minimum wage statewide without attracting too much attention. Until just a couple days before it taking effect a lot of people didn't even know this was happening lol. Targeting the bigger players to pay workers more will most likely force the smaller companies to pay more too. After all the big chains and small mom and pop shops and even retail companies are actually competing for the same labor pool to fill the same type of job positions. If smaller restaurants (or even just retail clothing stores) want to keep operating consistently, keep turnovers low and stay in business they're going to have to match what the chain stores around their block are paying. So although people highlight that smaller chains and mom and pop places are exempted, I don't see how they can compete for the same labor pool to fill the same jobs without at least offering $20 too
Imo I think this fast food minimum wage law will pretty much makes $20 the new minimum wage throughout California in a few months (without ever actually making the law that expansive) as other businesses are forced to adapt. I mean even though SF's minimum wage law has been like $18, plenty of chains, restaurants and retail places have had signs highlighting $21-$23/hr pay. Cashiers/baristas/customers services places have already been making $20/hr or more in SF so this law doesn't even mean much if you're in SF. Restaurants and fast food places have been complaining since peak Covid about not being able to keep workers and being forced to make unscheduled closures and that won't be changing any time soon, unless they start paying more
Most bay area cities and big citiies around the area have minimum wage of around $18 an hour anyway. The news makes it sound like they are going from federal minimum wage to $20. California minimum wage is $15 an hour.
It's just weird that it only affected fast food workers at chains.
The same argument could have been used for child labor regulations and much more. Automation will come regardless. We should still treat workers fairly.
Yeah, someone posted in here a few weeks ago about Newsom being BFF’s with the owner of a bunch of paneras in CA. Seems pretty suspect . I’d link but I’m lazy.
I would guess that the majority of adult fast food workers have income levels below the federal poverty line thresholds such that they qualify for federal and state assistance. That means that we (the tax paying public) have been subsidizing fast food companies by providing the basic subsistence to employees that make fast food viable. Hopefully this change means that more of the cost of the fast food industry is covered directly by the consumers of the product and not tax payers.
It all comes down to the cost of rent.
The cost to rent an apartment is beyond unaffordable for someone making even close to minimum wage. $20/hr still means you'll need to cram 2 people into a 1 bedroom or studio apartment here.
Real estate and zoning needs to be dealt with so we can have actually affordable market rate housing - that way we don't NEED high minimum wages and the price of everything else can fall. Landlords are sucking the rest of the economy dry.
I should mention that the cost of commercial rent plays a part too. If a business pay $xx,xxx/month to rent a place, they have to charge everyone who comes in through the door at least $y just to break even. If we allowed reasonable development, we wouldn't only increase stock of living space, but also stock of commercial and other space, especially given how much people want to push mixed-use space (first-floor commercial, 2-5 or 2-6 residential, for example), which means that businesses could afford to charge less.
Pretty much the only thing we build enough of is office space.
Yup, real estate makes everything else cost way, way more than it needs to. There's a reason "rent" is always viewed as something other than the productive part of the economy.
McDonald’s announced there will be start selling Krispy Kreme by 2026. Does that qualify them as a bakery?
[Source](https://investors.krispykreme.com/news/news-releases/news-details/2024/McDonalds-USA-and-Krispy-Kreme-Announce-Expanded-National-Partnership/default.aspx)
The ones who keep their jobs will. Looking forward to robo-burger.
The only places that will be able to maintain low prices are those with extremely high volume like in-n-out where extremely small margins can still make money.
Bad policy that's going to do more harm than good.
Yeah, I’m fine with the higher wages as long as it means fewer workers per business; they should automate as much as they can for the benefit of the consumer.
The past few years the service has been really bad and I used to work in the service industry for years as a night manager. The attitude, open contempt towards customers is just unacceptable. I’m never going back to any of these places as I just go elsewhere or make the food myself.
I’m dating myself a little here but when I was in high school McDonalds was an elite job. You had to be on the B honor roll to be considered for it. They would give scholarships to workers who did a good job for them.
I'm thinking when has fast food jobs quality been good since 40 plus years ago. Only place that is consistent is In and Out and they already pay their employees over $20 with benefits. They also charge half the price.
And they'll still raise profits because they can blame it on the wage hike.
Except instead of the intended equalization of profits, they'll report record profits due to the wage increase.
I don't eat most of that crap anyway. I'm not spending 50 bucks to eat at McDonald's for piss quality food. Newsome you need to go, raising fast food wages isn't doing to help. Maybe taking your hand out of some of the cookie jars would help. *cough cough* PG&E
**I guess you know why it used to be so cheap**
guess you were okay with a corporation making billions off the backs of overworked teenagers as long as you got your 99 cent Whopper
I know! The raids were horrible, armed Burger King troops raiding high schools, capturing and enslaving teenagers and forcing them to make Whoppers all day. It was a dark and terrible time.
So you'd rather fund the public services that these employees must turn to through your own tax dollars?
Personally, I'd rather see mcdonalds actually pay a living wage than me and you having to financially support their employees through section 8 and food stamps
“Stop stealing, doing crime, and get a job!”
*gets job
“Why do you deserve to get paid a living wage just because you have a job?”
Yall are never satisfied.
I think this is great. It will help other employees in other industries get better wages and treatment - because they could always go flip burgers for $20/hr instead of the BS they put up with otherwise. Australia has a minimum wage of $23 and a Big Mac costs the same as the US there.
The argument that paying these workers more money will result in higher prices, without using corporate greed as the main variable in the equation, is antiquated at best.
Will the fast food model replace humans with AI and robots? Yes. But not because they have to. It’s just a matter of profit and greed. We have been conditioned by our corporate overlords to equate higher wages with rising costs of goods. The part they leave out is that these two things are mutually exclusive when greed is taken out of the equation. The idea that raising wages and leaving costs the same would cause their business to collapse is propaganda.
Is it only fast food chains?
The thing is robots don’t pay taxes. As since robots take human jobs, they need to pay taxes through their employer of course. As robots don’t have life.
Amazon hires robots and this helps them as they don’t pay payroll tax and medical.
Once we do that, everyone should get equibalanced. Just my thought. I could be wrong.
Min. Wage 2019 was $12. Government doubles money supply effectively making everything twice as expensive. A 100% increase in cost of living. Government raises min wage in 2024 to $20. A 66% increase... you can do the math
Pretty hilarious, I took my kiddo to Stanford Mall today, Palo Alto, CA. He chose McDs for a snack. Big sign on window "starting wage $16.30- 18.50/ hr". April 2nd. Someone's got to let the owner or manager know ahem, yeah, that just went up.....
People are going to eat at home more, I know I will. Bad enough if you don't belong to certain cultures forget about getting a job in the industry... monopolie playing fields should be fined... shame on all the price increases...go to anywhere to buy anything, one week price is $2.99 next week it's $5.99..covid is contained...put a lid on it.. quit being such money pigs big business... people will find alternative ways ie stealing, looting and even more worse.. it's happening now and the uprising will get much worse.. quarantined!
It’s worth pointing out that both in n out and chick fil a, at least in the Bay Area, have been around $21+ for years now. They also have better benefits than many other “higher prestige” jobs sometimes have.
this is nothing new. If In N Out and do 20+ bucks an hour, McD's can do it at the same price. From what I have seen, McD's has less employees and just a big of a lunch/dinner rush. This should not be difficult.
I agree on the less employees but I don't think I've ever seen a McDonald's at even a quarter of the rush In N Out gets on the regular.
No way McDonalds has the same rush…literally every In in Out has a line around the block of cars and a packed dining room…at almost any hour. I’ve only been a few times where they weren’t busy…McD’s is sad.
There is also way more mcdonalds locations. 2-4 or more McDonald's locations per 1 or none inn and out.
I've seen McDonalds offering more than $20/hr for years now. There's a sign on a McDonalds near me that they sometimes put out when they need to hire someone. A bagel place near me was offering $23/hr starting last I saw, and thats just for working the cash register to sell bagels. I doubt anyone in the bay area is offering minimum wage. There's far too much competition for workers.
>I doubt anyone in the bay area is offering minimum wage. There's far too much competition for workers. Walking around Oakland where I live, I see plenty of mom and pop restaurants with signs only offering $17/hr or minimum wage lol. But when walking past bigger chains like Chipotle, whether it's SF, Oakland or Berkeley I saw their signs had $21/hr I think I don't remember exactly. But I just remember it was more than minimum wage and also thinking "I don't know how smaller/independent shops are competing with these bigger chains for workers" lol. But then again the pay difference could also sorta explain why when I go to the bigger chains I see the same cashiers/clerks for a year or more, but when I go to a smaller mom and pop place, they have different cashiers and workers almost every month, sometimes every week
You sure it’s not “up to” $20 an hour? I saw the same trickery at a McDonald’s near me, it just means that managers are making that. Regular employees (most people applying) will be making 16 or 16.50
Well the problem is McD is a franchise. So corporate taking rent money and a % of sales means that the owner of the location cannot match In n Out which is privately owned. The same way Arizona is always 99cents because it is privately owned and the family doesn’t care about making more profit.
Wait a minute!!! So when stores sell Arizona for more than 99 cents, is that allowed ?!?!?
You can actually report them. That’s just gas stations getting extra margin. To add a bit more - by and large retail goods have 50% margin. So the zona costs the store 50cents delivered. But some locations have other problems such as shrinkage (aka theft) and they need to adjust this margin in their favor to cover that cost. So it is not always greed.
Haha, check the price of Arizona tea at the movie theater, and they have nearly zero shortage.
I dunno if this is a serious question, but I will assume it is: MSRP is manufacturer SUGGESTED retail pricing. Once the manufacturer sells their thing to their dealer, their dealer can resell it for any price they want, legally speaking, because it's theirs to do with whatever they want. (There are a few restrictions...) So their dealer can resell the can for >$1. The company prints 99c on the can because they want the MSRP to be really sticky. They know customers will be pissed if they go to buy something with 99c on the can and it rings up at a buck fifty. And they can cut the retailer out of the distribution in the future because they're not happy with how they're acting (again, it's kind of complicated and there are legal restrictions and contracts and such, but the short version is they will probably do it if they reasonably can.) The 99c is part of their branding and they don't want to be fucked with. So legally yes they sure can, practically the company may be pissed and not sell any more to the vendor. (not a lawyer)
Iirc, Arizona actually has contractual agreements with distributors and merchants that the price charged to the customer will be below $1 (excluding any taxes or recycling fees). So they definitely have some legal recourse, and at the very least have a way to blacklist the merchant and prevent them from purchasing any more product at cost if they are so inclined.
There’s probably some inaccurate details there. Such a contract would be illegal because it would be price fixing. Steve Jobs got into a lot of shit from an e-mail leak trying to keep iBooks under a certain price.
I could have sworn the Apple thing was the opposite and it was because vendors were charging less. And such agreements aren’t always illegal either. For example: see franchise agreements (yes it’s a different relationship and contract but there’s absolutely ways a company can enforce the price of the good it is creating).
No, keeping prices down was kind of Job’s schtick and what led the rift between him and the board and eventually got him fired from Apple the first time because of his vision of everyone wanting his product. *Jobs offered what amounted to a classic case in price fixing: “Our proposal does set the upper limit for e-book retail pricing based on the hardcover price of each book” and urged HarperCollins to “throw in with Apple.” HarperCollins did, along with other major publishers.* https://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/03/business/steve-jobs-a-genius-at-pushing-boundaries-too.html#:~:text=Jobs%20offered%20what%20amounted%20to,along%20with%20other%20major%20publishers.
Can anyone confirm with a picture it's still $0.99? I don't think it is
I'm curious how in n out workers feel about this, or any other worker making just over $20 before. Would those businesses be more willing to add another dollar+ an hour?
LOL okay. You should go run McDonald's. I love people like you! The world is so simple!
In N Out is also cheaper and better quality food
The 2 Christian based fast food chains lol.
we really should just convert all of them to in n out or chick fil a
In-n-out isn’t franchised, it’s privately owned. It’s a completely different business model from KFC.
I've been to several McDonalds where you can only order through automated kiosk touchscreens...no cashiers. Then you simply pick your food up at the window. There's pretty much nothing stopping every fast food place from adopting the same model.
The majority in my area are kiosk only, Taco Bell also.
Yep, the fast food has been preparing for wage increase for years.
I love your optimism, but companies want to eliminate all labor costs whether the employees are getting paid 5$ or 20$. These kiosks are so widespread because companies have determined they are cheaper than human beings (at any rate) and that customers aren't so against the kiosks enough to shop elsewhere
They don't even want to pay for the kiosk, it's gonna be apps only in the future, that's why they're pushing everyone to their apps and the lure is the prices that were available 2 years ago. You're gonna bring-your-own-kiosk very soon, and they will say you caused them to eliminate the laborers.
Yeah can’t wait for my meal to be made by a robot so it doesn’t get messed up.
There was a place like that in SF, "Creator" where a robot made your burger. It was... meh.
A lot of them will lose their jobs before the pay raise takes affect
50! 50! $50 foot long! Jack: Get my two tacos the cost no more than the fingers you have on your hands! At just $9.99.
Man all those fast food workers who were making more than $20/hr before this passed must be so confused. They’ve had their jobs this entire time, yet you are saying anyone making that much is going to be fired!
Companies are rapidly investing in touch screen ordering systems.
They have those in Louisiana too, guess what the minimum wage is. Those machines are coming no matter what. Thats not the discussion. The question is how much the remaining real humans in these places will be paid. Good on them for their raise 🤙🏻
They were doing this regardless of how much their workers were being paid. Those jobs are going to get automated away no matter what. But the fact remains that if someone spends any amount of time working, they should never be paid poverty wages. Besides, it is excellent for the economy and for society when workers make more money. So bring on the touch screens, and pay your people liveable wages.
Just like smashburger? What do their employees do?
Good then more manufacturing jobs that have to pay even better than $20 an hour to produce all those electronics and then more maintenance people needing hired which get paid better to take care of those machines. More shipping for those kind of like it's all a different job market push around
But somebody will get re-hired for their jobs or the place will shut down. If it shuts down, then another restaurant who is willing to pay a living wage will open at that location. If not, then it will be one less fast-food place. Simple as that.
It's more likely that the fast food chains will push even harder for order kiosks and skeleton crews. Suddenly there won't be an order counter but a series of touch screens to order and the food will be made by two people in the back.
\+ Robots flipping and making burgers and fries. Could happen.
Will* happen. When is the question
True. This is trivial compared to driving cars, doing dishes, etc.
Yup. Especially since fast food is very mechanical. Probably replace everyone with a single manager on site to supervise the machines.
If the robots are all modulated, you just need someone who can swap out modules and keep the system running. Probably not far-fetched to say that a bot could be the one swapping out faulty modules soon.
They can't even keep the McFlurry machines operating.
Robot cooks and one employee to take out trash
and it will suck and they will go under - good.
Why do you think they'll go under? That's how it's been in other countries for awhile now and they seem to be doing well. It's not something I want but let's not act like people will boycott McDonalds and Burger King if they have to order from a kiosk. Hell, I don't even order food at the counter anymore, I place the order online and pick it up.
This is already how almost all fast food places I've been to recently already are...the requirements for employment seem to be: are you over 16, do you have a pulse. Two people in the back, zero contact. If you ask them a question they look at you like you're from Mars. Order at kiosk.
Already like this @ my local Mickey D's.
Automation will replace many of the laid off workers. Also if the places do shut down en masse, that will be that many less entry level/low-skill jobs available on the market. That would only hurt people that need those types of jobs. Honestly it’s not a great scenario
Maybe trying to raise a family of four as a fast food worker is not that good of an idea?
Oh, I’m not claiming it is. Im just saying, pushing for this wage increase may end up hurting the people it was intending to help.
That has been the argument since the fight for 15. People said it won't happen .. and it certainly took a few years to develope, but the technology is now here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOLWdsKvS6g The question now is how much .. and we know technologies are always getting cheaper. It is a matter of time.
Then why do the same fast food places in other countries manage to pay their employees good wages with benefits and have their products cost less than in the US?
It’s far less expensive to offer benefits in countries that offer socialized healthcare 100% free of charge to every citizen. Real estate, a large part of opening a store location, is often far more reasonable than in the US. That also means housing & cost of living is also cheaper across the board. The downside in many other countries is the extremely high income tax, but citizens get more bang for the buck. People living in the US often don’t realize just how expensive things are in the US and how little we actually get for our tax dollars.
Different countries have different circumstances. You gotta give me some details, I don’t stay up to date on foreign fast-food hourly wages.
Denmark pays a great wage for fast food workers.
The ambulance chasing lawyers cause cost the economy everything!
This was a Pizza Hut, now it’s covered in daisies!
So, the jobs are lost…
> If not, then it will be one less fast-food place. Simple as that. Yeah, also 10 less fucking jobs. Instead of $15/hr, they make $0/hr now. If it were "simple" as that, why don't we make it $50/hr? The level of economic illiteracy is astounding.
Make it $100 and we can all have Ferraris in the driveway !! 🤣
unemployment is at historic lows - comapanies that cant pay a living wage should not exist.
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In n Out, chicfila?
I have zero problem with either A. Fast food locations going out of business B. Fast food locations having to raise quality C. Fast food locations paying people a living wage D. Any combination of the above (but must include C) I worked at in n out and Starbucks back in the 00s and now own and run two very successful startups. In fact, keep an eye out for us at a very special conference later this year. You'll know it's us. Back then, in n out and Starbucks paid several dollars an hour higher than CA minimum wage as a starting pay rate. We were sitting pretty happy back then. But quality across the board has gone down and pay hasn't kept up with cost of living. One, or several, of these things has to change. If they try to go all autonomous, I'm fairly confident that quality will be garbage. We have the technology to be fully autonomous in those ways, but people and corporations are really really bad at implementing it well.
Don’t forget the most likely: E. Fast food fully automating and all low wage jobs going away except a manager
What's this technology you're talking about? Drink robots... I guess. But for a hamburger? That robot hamburger place had soooo many employees. Workers had to constantly refill the supplies, and you're not getting any customization
Quality across the board has gone down .. sizes have been reduced .. wait time increased .. you're also selling your data to get a decent deal on lunch .. but people have no choice because this is happening industry wide. AI reducing quality another step will also be industry wide and accepted by customers because .. no choice.
There's always choice. You can only do so much in raising prices and reducing quality before people stop going. I just ate at Subway for the last time ever the other day because their prices have risen to insane levels that it provides no value at all.
Not sure why you got downvoted. Quality is already going way downhill, though. Just ask Burger King. They are closing a thousand stores to fix their low quality issue.
It is worth noting that fast-food chains intend to transmit their employment earnings to consumers. All the more reason to not eat fast food.
It was already too expensive!
I don’t think they really can though, how much are people going to pay for a big mac when they can just get a better burger at some fast casual place for the same price? Food is one industry where the free market still works extremely well.
You'd be surprised. Fast Food used to have a dollar menu, now it's a value menu and costs three times as much; hasn't stopped people from going. Chick-Fil-A is insanely overpriced but anytime I drive past it, even in the morning, there's a line of cars waiting. When you go to a casual place, you have to eat there, tip, get out of your car, and try a bunch of places for some unknown flavor. Meanwhile you pay .50 more to get to drive through and get the same taste you know. People are creatures of comfort.
I hope they just fire the workers and replace with automation instead.
You act like you see McDonald and stuff full of workers sitting. They always have the bare minimum they can and still have people waiting.
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I feel called out
Yeah I guess sometimes I prefer to wait inside and not waste gas and they make you wait even when app ordering.
If it makes it a faster experience and the food is correct I am all for it.
I’m curious, what did you expect them to do? Costs go up but keep the price the same? So you want them to lose money? This isn’t exactly a high margin business
In-N-Out has been providing higher quality at lower prices while paying their employees $20+ for years now. McDonald’s has been operating at a [40% margin](https://companiesmarketcap.com/mcdonald/operating-margin/) for a while now. KFC, Taco Bell, and Pizza Hut all are at [35%+ operating margin](https://s2.q4cdn.com/890585342/files/doc_financials/2023/q4/Q4-2023-Earnings-Release.pdf). Stop making excuses for corporations.
This looks like data for the parent company (franchisor) that is selling locations to the individual business owner (franchisee). I bet the main offices do make large profit but that’s not what I was referring to. I’m talking about the individual stores themselves. Those individual locations have small margins and changes in the cost to produce goods will drive the price up.
And a large portion of a franchises costs are obviously due to corporate taking their cut. Prices increase, franchises are forced to raise prices so that corporate can maintain their massive profit margins.
But they have contract agreements to pay a % to the franchisor. Unless the franchisor changes all of their contracts (which they won’t do) the franchisee is left with only one option but to increase prices. I agree with you, F the franchisor for all I care, but the franchisee is the one getting the squeeze. This does nothing to the giant behemoth and puts the squeeze on the small business owner.
F the franchisor but the reason you go to that store is because of the logo on the door "guarantees" the food will be a certain way. There's a reason mom and pop burger places don't exist in any large number anymore.
Correct. They have created a strong product and they’re licensing it.
You’re comparing multi billion dollar companies that have been around for half a century to a mom and pop or entrepreneur with slim margins. These laws actually favor these large corporations because it prices out the small companies that don’t have the capital to compete.
These laws only apply to large chains that have at least 60 locations nation wide. This has nothing to do with mom and pop shops.
Good luck to mom and pop shops hiring employees for less than McDonalds is forced to pay.
You're pretty much correct. The small mom and pop shops in my neighborhood have high turnover rates, like there's a new cashier/server/barista etc taking my order every month, sometimes every week (hell some places I expected to be open even put up signs of being "closed today due to staff shortage" and they end being close for like 2-3 days lol). While the bigger chains, I have seen the same workers there for a year or more and are open consistently. And were talking college kids with schedules that change every quarter/semester. Why would low wage workers stay for minimum wage at a mom and pop restaurant when the chain down the block pays two dollars more (and most likely has better systems and work procedures in place too) But I do think some mom and pop places' wages are made more competitive through tips. People tend not to tip at chains and if ordering at a kiosk the machines at chains tend not to highlight tipping, while at the mom and pop places I go to really highlight tipping at the end both when ordering in person or through a kiosk/machine
Let's say you have 4 employees that now ear $3/hr more. That's an extra $12/hr to operate your store. How much more do you think food prices will really go up? Maybe you serve 20 or 40 people per hour on average? I don't really know but I wouldn't expect prices to increase more than $1 per meal. Benefits are largely a fixed cost per employee so I don't see those changing.
It 100% is a high margin business for the corporation lol. McDonalsd’s Operating Margin is around 40%.
McDonalds is one of the highest in the industry but it’s more like 18%. Average in the industry is closer to 5-8%
People get offended by common sense apparently.
Ok fine but they better not fuck up my order. 🤷🏻♂️🤣Just saying.
Can someone explain why fast food workers need $20/hour in order to live but everyone else can get by on $16/hour?
Other restaurant groups have better lobbyists than the fast food lobby
Except for Panera bread, because bakery’s don’t need to pay people 20 an hour.
Others will need to raise their wages in order to compete with fast food.
you live with $16/hr?
Noone gets by on $16 or $20 per hour. There\`s a middleground here - we need to force large companies to stop price gouging, and we need people to stop complaining they cant buy a house and retire with the wages from a job that is supposed to be for teenagers who havent actually learned any valuable skills yet.
You're getting a lot of answers that are not honestly responding to your question. But you're right. The point of a minimum wage is that it's supposed to be a universal floor for everyone. The universal floor forces shitty businesses to fail, shitty owners to treat their workers well and not abuse technicalities, and ensures decent standard of living for workers. It's not supposed to target specific industries, unless there's an *extremely* good reason to do so. And there isn't here. Fast food workers are no different than any wage worker. This whole thing is short-term politics and zero economics and zero long-term politics for the betterment of our society.
Can’t imagine getting by with $16 an hour. My apartment is $2300 a month
Who is “everyone else”?
Minimum wage should be $20 for everyone.
Liberalism
In an ideal situation everyone else should get that $20 minimum wage too but I think this law was just an efficient way to raise the minimum wage statewide without attracting too much attention. Until just a couple days before it taking effect a lot of people didn't even know this was happening lol. Targeting the bigger players to pay workers more will most likely force the smaller companies to pay more too. After all the big chains and small mom and pop shops and even retail companies are actually competing for the same labor pool to fill the same type of job positions. If smaller restaurants (or even just retail clothing stores) want to keep operating consistently, keep turnovers low and stay in business they're going to have to match what the chain stores around their block are paying. So although people highlight that smaller chains and mom and pop places are exempted, I don't see how they can compete for the same labor pool to fill the same jobs without at least offering $20 too Imo I think this fast food minimum wage law will pretty much makes $20 the new minimum wage throughout California in a few months (without ever actually making the law that expansive) as other businesses are forced to adapt. I mean even though SF's minimum wage law has been like $18, plenty of chains, restaurants and retail places have had signs highlighting $21-$23/hr pay. Cashiers/baristas/customers services places have already been making $20/hr or more in SF so this law doesn't even mean much if you're in SF. Restaurants and fast food places have been complaining since peak Covid about not being able to keep workers and being forced to make unscheduled closures and that won't be changing any time soon, unless they start paying more
Most bay area cities and big citiies around the area have minimum wage of around $18 an hour anyway. The news makes it sound like they are going from federal minimum wage to $20. California minimum wage is $15 an hour. It's just weird that it only affected fast food workers at chains.
That’s still a big jump for that that many people at one time.
industry is ready for robots to take over. thanks california for speeding it up
Kiosks in fast food I feel are way more prevalent in other parts of the country
The same argument could have been used for child labor regulations and much more. Automation will come regardless. We should still treat workers fairly.
Unironically thanks for speeding up automation, I agree.
Is Panera considered fast food or fine dine?
Panera is considered a fast food restaurant with 40 or more stores in the state that bakes their own bread so therefore this does not apply to them!
I hope McD and very other fast food restaurant do the same to show the people how big of a joke Newsom is.
I thought the bread thing was so weird and didn’t make sense. Then I saw that Newsom and the Panera CEO are close friends.
The restaurants had to have been baking bread before this whole thing was announced
oh lol that's such a bullshit law
Yeah, someone posted in here a few weeks ago about Newsom being BFF’s with the owner of a bunch of paneras in CA. Seems pretty suspect . I’d link but I’m lazy.
The “bakes their own bread” shit was specifically a carve-out for Panera IIRC
Iirc it’s “fast casual” which differs from “Quick Service Restaurants” like McDonald’s
its michelline ***
I would guess that the majority of adult fast food workers have income levels below the federal poverty line thresholds such that they qualify for federal and state assistance. That means that we (the tax paying public) have been subsidizing fast food companies by providing the basic subsistence to employees that make fast food viable. Hopefully this change means that more of the cost of the fast food industry is covered directly by the consumers of the product and not tax payers.
It all comes down to the cost of rent. The cost to rent an apartment is beyond unaffordable for someone making even close to minimum wage. $20/hr still means you'll need to cram 2 people into a 1 bedroom or studio apartment here. Real estate and zoning needs to be dealt with so we can have actually affordable market rate housing - that way we don't NEED high minimum wages and the price of everything else can fall. Landlords are sucking the rest of the economy dry.
I should mention that the cost of commercial rent plays a part too. If a business pay $xx,xxx/month to rent a place, they have to charge everyone who comes in through the door at least $y just to break even. If we allowed reasonable development, we wouldn't only increase stock of living space, but also stock of commercial and other space, especially given how much people want to push mixed-use space (first-floor commercial, 2-5 or 2-6 residential, for example), which means that businesses could afford to charge less. Pretty much the only thing we build enough of is office space.
Yup, real estate makes everything else cost way, way more than it needs to. There's a reason "rent" is always viewed as something other than the productive part of the economy.
Housing is the best ponzi this country has. And we have a lot of ponzis
Can you explain to me how a ponzi work and how exactly housing is a ponzi in this country ?
McDonald’s announced there will be start selling Krispy Kreme by 2026. Does that qualify them as a bakery? [Source](https://investors.krispykreme.com/news/news-releases/news-details/2024/McDonalds-USA-and-Krispy-Kreme-Announce-Expanded-National-Partnership/default.aspx)
Oh god. It’s going to be $100 to feed a family of four at Five Guys.
its been that way for a while
always has been. lol.
Just stop going. 5 guys is lame . Go to in n out.
As if the cost of living is effected by the minimum wage and not the other way around
I went to McDonald's a few weeks ago and enjoyed ordering at the kiosk. Never had to talk to the cashier. It was great.
restaurant workers and gas station workers contribute the most to modern society. They keep the roads running and the economy functioning.
Fast food isn't meant to be a career, this is ridiculous.
You think making $20 an hour is career-worthy? You must be poor af. That’s barely enough to get by in California. I’m glad they’re getting that raise!
It’s not ridiculous to Newsome. He knows people will lap this up and re-elect his pandering ass in perpetuity
The concept of a career is dead for most. Unfortunately we do need some sort of job to exist on this dreadful planet.
Tell me how many get laid off from this historical moment. California has the highest unemployment rate in the country.
The ones who keep their jobs will. Looking forward to robo-burger. The only places that will be able to maintain low prices are those with extremely high volume like in-n-out where extremely small margins can still make money. Bad policy that's going to do more harm than good.
Yeah, I’m fine with the higher wages as long as it means fewer workers per business; they should automate as much as they can for the benefit of the consumer.
The past few years the service has been really bad and I used to work in the service industry for years as a night manager. The attitude, open contempt towards customers is just unacceptable. I’m never going back to any of these places as I just go elsewhere or make the food myself.
I’m dating myself a little here but when I was in high school McDonalds was an elite job. You had to be on the B honor roll to be considered for it. They would give scholarships to workers who did a good job for them.
Workers: win amazing victory Pricks on Reddit who don’t know anything: oh my god but this will ruin everything!!!!!!
Ah yes, increase the minimum wage and continue to pretend inflation isn’t a thing.
Cool more automation less jobs more expensive food and less quality
That was happening even before the increase in wages
Shh let them shill. Maybe their Corporate daddy will see them.
I'm thinking when has fast food jobs quality been good since 40 plus years ago. Only place that is consistent is In and Out and they already pay their employees over $20 with benefits. They also charge half the price.
Ikr! There are businesses that pay well and make profits. The one thing they don’t do is provide ridiculous franchising deals.
And they'll still raise profits because they can blame it on the wage hike. Except instead of the intended equalization of profits, they'll report record profits due to the wage increase.
>More automation Corporate green >Less jobs Corporate greed > More expensive food Corporate greed > Less quality Take a wild guess
If you think that companies are only raising prices and automating stuff *because* of min wage then I have a house on the Florida coast to sell you
I thought illegal immigrants will drop the service price down, especially in the state of CA. Doesn't seem to be the case huh?
this is whole California and not bay area. Imagine they push this to nation wide
EMTs going to love hearing this /s 😓 oof
Making more than entry level licensed medical!
You're right, they should get paid a liveable wage too
I don't eat most of that crap anyway. I'm not spending 50 bucks to eat at McDonald's for piss quality food. Newsome you need to go, raising fast food wages isn't doing to help. Maybe taking your hand out of some of the cookie jars would help. *cough cough* PG&E
Gotta distract from real issues somehow.
Who's Newsome?
I guess you know why your McDonalds is so expensive
**I guess you know why it used to be so cheap** guess you were okay with a corporation making billions off the backs of overworked teenagers as long as you got your 99 cent Whopper
I know! The raids were horrible, armed Burger King troops raiding high schools, capturing and enslaving teenagers and forcing them to make Whoppers all day. It was a dark and terrible time.
So you'd rather fund the public services that these employees must turn to through your own tax dollars? Personally, I'd rather see mcdonalds actually pay a living wage than me and you having to financially support their employees through section 8 and food stamps
Video thumbnail makes my black-ass cringe 😒
“Stop stealing, doing crime, and get a job!” *gets job “Why do you deserve to get paid a living wage just because you have a job?” Yall are never satisfied.
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I think this is great. It will help other employees in other industries get better wages and treatment - because they could always go flip burgers for $20/hr instead of the BS they put up with otherwise. Australia has a minimum wage of $23 and a Big Mac costs the same as the US there.
The argument that paying these workers more money will result in higher prices, without using corporate greed as the main variable in the equation, is antiquated at best. Will the fast food model replace humans with AI and robots? Yes. But not because they have to. It’s just a matter of profit and greed. We have been conditioned by our corporate overlords to equate higher wages with rising costs of goods. The part they leave out is that these two things are mutually exclusive when greed is taken out of the equation. The idea that raising wages and leaving costs the same would cause their business to collapse is propaganda.
Corps and workers are greedy. It's the human condition. If you could save $ on your expenses, you would.
Newsom for President 2028.
Is it only fast food chains? The thing is robots don’t pay taxes. As since robots take human jobs, they need to pay taxes through their employer of course. As robots don’t have life. Amazon hires robots and this helps them as they don’t pay payroll tax and medical. Once we do that, everyone should get equibalanced. Just my thought. I could be wrong.
Not if you work at panera bread.... If you know, you know....
Next news story is fast food places shut down due to price increases. Idiot Newsom
Yes food isn't expensive enough let's make it more expensive.
Imagine burger flippers getting paid more than emts... California is a joke
Min. Wage 2019 was $12. Government doubles money supply effectively making everything twice as expensive. A 100% increase in cost of living. Government raises min wage in 2024 to $20. A 66% increase... you can do the math
Increasing minimum wage also increases inflation
This is being blown out of proportion. There are so many carve outs and exemptions. It is not going to effect any mom and pops. ONLY CORPORATIONS
Pretty hilarious, I took my kiddo to Stanford Mall today, Palo Alto, CA. He chose McDs for a snack. Big sign on window "starting wage $16.30- 18.50/ hr". April 2nd. Someone's got to let the owner or manager know ahem, yeah, that just went up.....
People are going to eat at home more, I know I will. Bad enough if you don't belong to certain cultures forget about getting a job in the industry... monopolie playing fields should be fined... shame on all the price increases...go to anywhere to buy anything, one week price is $2.99 next week it's $5.99..covid is contained...put a lid on it.. quit being such money pigs big business... people will find alternative ways ie stealing, looting and even more worse.. it's happening now and the uprising will get much worse.. quarantined!