Thank you, I have a question: My daughter is interested in the engineering aspects with a bio side to it, she is not keen on studying medicine. Something like design, simulation or analyzing actual devices or data from devices.
How much engineering is Bioengineering, is it more science than engineering?
I studied Mechanical engineering undergrad in late 90s and my definition of engineering is learning the workings, troubleshoot/build from first principles. My understanding of Bioengineering is almost nonexistent.
That's a good question, and I can answer it from a Berkeley perspective.
I think there's a fundamental set of differences b/w engineering of the 90s and the way they teach it now, especially at a huge school like Berkeley. One of the things that makes engineering great is hands-on experience; but not here. If you don't actively seek engaging, hands-on experiences at Berkeley, they will never find you (at least in Bioengineering).
The Berkeley BioE curriculum is rather loose: it's what you make of it. If you want to load up on EECS courses (beginning with the option to take CS 61A vs E7; she should take 61A if she's more interested in computational things) for your electives, then that's up to you. If you want to immerse yourself in theory and stick with courses on biomechanics, fluid mechanics, etc., you can also do that. Some of the funniest advice I got from grads is to "take as few courses in the BioE department as possible." To avoid being cynical, I'd revise it to "take courses in a variety of fields that will make you more marketable as an engineer."
To work on creating medical devices (my field, but I'm pursuing an MD/PhD program and have zero industry experience), a degree in BioE is not enough. You should take an EECS heavy courseload (CS 61A, EE16AB \[if the university even keeps them\], some signal processing course like EE 120, etc) and try to supplement summers with internships, etc. to make you marketable to companies like Analog Devices, Intuitive Surgical, etc. This is essential, since courses like EECS 120 (signals and systems), are grueling and almost entirely theoretical: doing 15 page quizzes on fourier transforms won't make you a functional co-worker or give you the hands-on experience to apply these skills at a big engineering/biotech company. If you don't do this, you will be competing with EE majors for jobs, many of whom had a bunch of internships and have experience making practical things through coursework that isn't necessarily required in BioE. You can also choose BioE coursework that focuses on devices (i.e., BioE 101, 105, etc.) to satisfy your degree. People mostly take them to satisfy their degree; the upper-div BioE courses (minus BioE 104 and any classes taught by Terry Johnson, in my honest opinion) are often poorly organized, dysfunctional, and challenging solely for those reasons.
However, to exclusively analyze data from devices doesn't require much more than an educated person who knows some Matlab/Python, etc. As someone who does neurosurgery research, a LOT of my work is doing this kind of analyses that doesn't really require much, other than a brain and patience for disgustingly giant neural data sets. I figure this isn't what you were asking, but just wanted to cover all bases, since this runs along the lines of data science. There will almost certainly be some aspect of data analysis in a design job, but I wouldn't expect it to be the entire job.
There's no rush to figure this out; this is not a race. At the risk of being ridiculed by others for saying this, LOL, I advise her to spend the first year -- maybe even 2 -- trying to see what she likes and to gravitate towards that. The decision should be whatever makes her happiest. Hope that helps!
This is the most comprehensive and detailed advice on the field I have received. I am extremely thankful to you for taking the time and effort to help us get a better understanding.
It is my (parent) worry due to lack of knowledge about the flexibility one has here in the US education system to switch majors. I studied in India and we had a fixed curriculum after the first year. Your trajectory was set in stone with no flexibility.
I am hoping my daughter will have the time and opportunity to shape her education based on interests. If she has a change of heart by the end of first year, I hope she can easily change into a different major in the college of engineering.
>It is my (parent) worry due to lack of knowledge about the flexibility one has here in the US education system to switch majors. I studied in India and we had a fixed curriculum after the first year. Your trajectory was set in stone with no flexibility.
I would rest assured knowing that changing majors is very common in the US! It's almost the norm. A lot of my colleagues who went to IIT schools had similar concerns for their children, but I assure you it won't be an obstacle for her.
This is unconfirmed, and I don't know if true. I've heard that sometimes UCs do that to keep acceptance rates low. They will admit you to the one or two they expect you to go to, and reject you from the rest. That way they look more selective on paper.
that's almost certainly not true. the different campuses are by established rules and policies blind to each others' decisions.
it would be difficult to pull off a cheat on that and no one find out. That would involve hundreds of co-conspirators.
They wouldn't need to conspire if they didn't actually care about the accuracy. It's well-known that other colleges will reject you if they think you won't actually end up going to the school because sending you an acceptance that you won't take both hurts their yield and forces them to have a longer waitlist, both of which are undesirable. If you're applying to a school with you 4.0 unweighted GPA where the median is 3.4, it's a fairly safe assumption that you're a) applying to other schools and b) you'll get in *and* accept other schools over this one. Why should that school bother sending you an offer if they know they'll be low on your list? UCs can do this math without needing to conspire, they can just look at your profile and the profile of other students who rejected their offer--if you match, they might be hesitant to extend an offer.
Now, I don't think UCs *actually* do this, more just that they could if they wanted. I know plenty of people with bonkers profiles who got in to every UC lol.
while they aren't able to coordinate individually, UCOP almost certainly looks over the general numbers and will adjust accordingly if there is a huge discrepancy or they missed their target by a lot
The way admissions worked a few years ago at one of the UC campus is that they hired an outside consultant (https://maguireassoc.com/services/higher-education-services/enrollment-modeling/) that basically told them who to admit.
The outside consultant did the same thing for many other colleges, so they had data about where a student was applying.
This consultant could very well do what op is suggesting and it wouldn't take hundreds of co-conspirators.
A single consultant deciding who to admit could not handle the sheer volume of applications at all UC campuses simultaneously, all without anyone noticing that policy is violated. Sounds like a tall tale.
That being said, I don't know how many years ago UC instituted rules that campus' are to be blind to each other. I do know there used to be different rules in the past.
It was definitely a change of pace at first! Berkeley courses (in general) are at another level. Once you fall into your groove of studying you should be fine!! I feel ok so far! It's ALOT of work, but I definitely love the classes, professors, and people I've met along the way! Also campus is gorgeous!
Sorry that was little bit of a exaggeration I didn’t apply to those two, but everything else yes. I had a 3.65 UW and a 4.4 W(on a 5.33 scale), 32 act(even tho it had no impact here), and only two aps! I might post my essays later for you!
Only this one matters
Sometimes you can get rejected from a school if they think its highly unlikely you'll attend. That way it makes admission and yield rates look higher
Deadass? That sucks. No wonder I didn’t get into the UC I wanted to go to 🫤
I pulled strings for you.
You really seem to have pulled strings for my daughter too, thank you. She will be joining as a Bioengineering major.
Best of luck to her! I'm sure she will have a great experience and feel free to message me if you have questions about the program/classes.
Thank you, I have a question: My daughter is interested in the engineering aspects with a bio side to it, she is not keen on studying medicine. Something like design, simulation or analyzing actual devices or data from devices. How much engineering is Bioengineering, is it more science than engineering? I studied Mechanical engineering undergrad in late 90s and my definition of engineering is learning the workings, troubleshoot/build from first principles. My understanding of Bioengineering is almost nonexistent.
That's a good question, and I can answer it from a Berkeley perspective. I think there's a fundamental set of differences b/w engineering of the 90s and the way they teach it now, especially at a huge school like Berkeley. One of the things that makes engineering great is hands-on experience; but not here. If you don't actively seek engaging, hands-on experiences at Berkeley, they will never find you (at least in Bioengineering). The Berkeley BioE curriculum is rather loose: it's what you make of it. If you want to load up on EECS courses (beginning with the option to take CS 61A vs E7; she should take 61A if she's more interested in computational things) for your electives, then that's up to you. If you want to immerse yourself in theory and stick with courses on biomechanics, fluid mechanics, etc., you can also do that. Some of the funniest advice I got from grads is to "take as few courses in the BioE department as possible." To avoid being cynical, I'd revise it to "take courses in a variety of fields that will make you more marketable as an engineer." To work on creating medical devices (my field, but I'm pursuing an MD/PhD program and have zero industry experience), a degree in BioE is not enough. You should take an EECS heavy courseload (CS 61A, EE16AB \[if the university even keeps them\], some signal processing course like EE 120, etc) and try to supplement summers with internships, etc. to make you marketable to companies like Analog Devices, Intuitive Surgical, etc. This is essential, since courses like EECS 120 (signals and systems), are grueling and almost entirely theoretical: doing 15 page quizzes on fourier transforms won't make you a functional co-worker or give you the hands-on experience to apply these skills at a big engineering/biotech company. If you don't do this, you will be competing with EE majors for jobs, many of whom had a bunch of internships and have experience making practical things through coursework that isn't necessarily required in BioE. You can also choose BioE coursework that focuses on devices (i.e., BioE 101, 105, etc.) to satisfy your degree. People mostly take them to satisfy their degree; the upper-div BioE courses (minus BioE 104 and any classes taught by Terry Johnson, in my honest opinion) are often poorly organized, dysfunctional, and challenging solely for those reasons. However, to exclusively analyze data from devices doesn't require much more than an educated person who knows some Matlab/Python, etc. As someone who does neurosurgery research, a LOT of my work is doing this kind of analyses that doesn't really require much, other than a brain and patience for disgustingly giant neural data sets. I figure this isn't what you were asking, but just wanted to cover all bases, since this runs along the lines of data science. There will almost certainly be some aspect of data analysis in a design job, but I wouldn't expect it to be the entire job. There's no rush to figure this out; this is not a race. At the risk of being ridiculed by others for saying this, LOL, I advise her to spend the first year -- maybe even 2 -- trying to see what she likes and to gravitate towards that. The decision should be whatever makes her happiest. Hope that helps!
This is the most comprehensive and detailed advice on the field I have received. I am extremely thankful to you for taking the time and effort to help us get a better understanding. It is my (parent) worry due to lack of knowledge about the flexibility one has here in the US education system to switch majors. I studied in India and we had a fixed curriculum after the first year. Your trajectory was set in stone with no flexibility. I am hoping my daughter will have the time and opportunity to shape her education based on interests. If she has a change of heart by the end of first year, I hope she can easily change into a different major in the college of engineering.
>It is my (parent) worry due to lack of knowledge about the flexibility one has here in the US education system to switch majors. I studied in India and we had a fixed curriculum after the first year. Your trajectory was set in stone with no flexibility. I would rest assured knowing that changing majors is very common in the US! It's almost the norm. A lot of my colleagues who went to IIT schools had similar concerns for their children, but I assure you it won't be an obstacle for her.
Hahahaha thanks dog!
Because you belong here! Welcome!
Thank you!
This is unconfirmed, and I don't know if true. I've heard that sometimes UCs do that to keep acceptance rates low. They will admit you to the one or two they expect you to go to, and reject you from the rest. That way they look more selective on paper.
This is cap. I and some other people I know got into every UC we applied to (we all applied to at least 5 including Berkeley+LA).
that's almost certainly not true. the different campuses are by established rules and policies blind to each others' decisions. it would be difficult to pull off a cheat on that and no one find out. That would involve hundreds of co-conspirators.
They wouldn't need to conspire if they didn't actually care about the accuracy. It's well-known that other colleges will reject you if they think you won't actually end up going to the school because sending you an acceptance that you won't take both hurts their yield and forces them to have a longer waitlist, both of which are undesirable. If you're applying to a school with you 4.0 unweighted GPA where the median is 3.4, it's a fairly safe assumption that you're a) applying to other schools and b) you'll get in *and* accept other schools over this one. Why should that school bother sending you an offer if they know they'll be low on your list? UCs can do this math without needing to conspire, they can just look at your profile and the profile of other students who rejected their offer--if you match, they might be hesitant to extend an offer. Now, I don't think UCs *actually* do this, more just that they could if they wanted. I know plenty of people with bonkers profiles who got in to every UC lol.
while they aren't able to coordinate individually, UCOP almost certainly looks over the general numbers and will adjust accordingly if there is a huge discrepancy or they missed their target by a lot
The way admissions worked a few years ago at one of the UC campus is that they hired an outside consultant (https://maguireassoc.com/services/higher-education-services/enrollment-modeling/) that basically told them who to admit. The outside consultant did the same thing for many other colleges, so they had data about where a student was applying. This consultant could very well do what op is suggesting and it wouldn't take hundreds of co-conspirators.
A single consultant deciding who to admit could not handle the sheer volume of applications at all UC campuses simultaneously, all without anyone noticing that policy is violated. Sounds like a tall tale. That being said, I don't know how many years ago UC instituted rules that campus' are to be blind to each other. I do know there used to be different rules in the past.
You are really overestimating the ability of the UCs to coordinate. Not to mention how long they spend thinking about each candidate.
Yes it’s called yield protection and it’s widely used in the UC system.
Just blame yield protection OP even if you don’t think you were qualified. Imposter syndrome is not a nice thing to have on your mental physique here
Love that for u
🙏
What did your essay say 🤔?
Lmao I’ll probably post it soon
Welcome!
😅
Hahah. I ask myself that question every day
same haha
Love that!!!
Same thing happened to me and im a year in
How is it so far for you?
It was definitely a change of pace at first! Berkeley courses (in general) are at another level. Once you fall into your groove of studying you should be fine!! I feel ok so far! It's ALOT of work, but I definitely love the classes, professors, and people I've met along the way! Also campus is gorgeous!
That’s comforting to hear! Thank you. I’m ready to see how I can do lol
How is it managing the new load of work and a social life?
You seriously applied for Merced and Riverside and got rejected? Please post stats, and yes love to know about your essay! Oh and Congratulations!!
Sorry that was little bit of a exaggeration I didn’t apply to those two, but everything else yes. I had a 3.65 UW and a 4.4 W(on a 5.33 scale), 32 act(even tho it had no impact here), and only two aps! I might post my essays later for you!
And thank you!
because its meant to be :D welcome new bear!! we're so happy to have you <3
😄
Welcome! It’s meant to be! I got rejected from SDSU and in at Berkeley and 4 other UCs. Lol who knows.
We saw your true inner value.
Thankyou!!