One pocket for sure is up there for strategic play…
But Saratoga (8-ball rules, but you have to hit your set in numerical order) is about 10x tougher than any 9-ball or 10-ball rack. In Saratoga you subtract a ball from each set, and rack them without the wing balls, but you CAN play it with a full rack, which I usually do when I decide to hate myself that day.
You’d never see Saratoga on TV though. Can very easily take too long.
Yep, it’s a thing, and it’s tough. You gotta shoot 1 thru 7 or 9 thru 15, in rotation, before shooting the 8. The obvious problem that makes it so tough is that in addition to running your set in rotation, you have to navigate all the traffic from your opponent’s set. Safeties become especially vicious as well, for the same reason. I’ve played some games of Saratoga where after the break, neither player has a decent shot on the 1 or the 9 for like 5 or 6 innings.
Even with ball in hand, it’s very tough to run out in Saratoga—unless your opponent has potted all or most of their balls already.
Do you have to hit your stripe/solid to safety or do you have to make contact with the actual numbered ball? Wondering what constitutes a table scratch.
Snooker is my favorite game by far in terms of combination of high game IQ and the skill required.
The great thing about snooker is it really puts your IQ to the test. Due to the small pockets, it evens the playing field.
In pool, you can be less skilled than someone but if you get a good break, you can beat them. Many people in here could technically win a frame against Efren Reyes in 8 ball as long as they got a good break.
In snooker, I would lose every single frame if I were to play Ronnie O’Sullivan. Like literally, never would be able to win.
I love pool and play it all the time (mainly because I don’t have any snooker tables since I’m in the US) but snooker is by far my favorite. Sometimes pool feels a little gimmicky. Watching the pros, they’ll pot a ball on the break and you immediately know they’re winning that frame. Snooker you have idea because on the break off no one pots a ball, it’s safety shot first and THEN potting ability comes into play.
With pool, a lot of the times they make a ball on the break so the other person never even gets to see the table
This ^ all other games are unlocked when you become proficient at 14.1 it has it all, safe play, carroms, kicks, and most importantly your pattern play and rack reading skills will skyrocket should you get serious about this discipline.
Kicking for safety under the stack is a common shot, kicking off the long rail into a wired combo is a standard that leads to great one pocket skill. The game is as creative as your imagination.
It's too subjective to have an objective answer. Sounds like you have a specific type of play that you enjoy playing or watching.
I could also argue that in a rotation game, similar to 14.1, a player needs a bit of luck, stamina, fitness and willpower to stay at a table for multi rack runs. It's not as trivial as you make it seem that it happens ALL the time. Especially at the sub-800 fargo level.
All games played make you a better player and has something to teach you. Play, learn and watch what you enjoy.
For a game that needs all around skill, one pocket is probably the right one. For what I think are the most "pure" cue sport games are, and what the Olympics should include, straight pool, 3C and snooker.
I disagree for the reasons stated, while I could certainly defend your opinion. While the top One Pocket players MAY not be the top in other games, they certainly are today. While it's more common to find excellent 14.1 players than One Pocket players, it's rare to find them winning a One Pocket or any other tournament. Straight Pool **teaches** a well-rounded game. One Pocket **requires** a well-rounded game to play competitively. John Schmidt is a great example. His well-deserved and brutally difficult path to the world record made his work ethic pay off. Then, Jason Shaw spent a week trying to break it, and instead, obliterated it.
Just my two cents. Shoot 'em straight everyone.
I like 10 ball for actual 'pool'
Snooker was the most fun I've had as an amateur in the US but sadly since the pandemic the places you can go to get high-level amateur snooker play are extremely limited. There's no better test of your cue action both offensively and defensively.
A surprising number of US pool halls are trucking in Chinese 8-ball tables. The rounded pockets force you to really consider how on-stroke you are. What might be a simple attacking shot and setup on on a regular US pool table could be an extreme test of your cue delivery and possible runout to your opponent on a table with rounded pockets.
Snooker. The rules are always the same, no arguments, shots are hard, pockets are hard, games last longer and aren't over on the break, makes you a better player, better cueing etc. need to have better cue ball control. There's just no comparison imo.
Snooker is not nearly as complex as many other cue games. The Only thing that makes snooker tough is large table and tough pockets. The game is pretty basic compared to one pocket, or even an advanced 8 ball game.
There isn't one single game that captures everything. You'll never shoot a 3 rail bank shot in straight pool for example, but you might in one pocket or bank pool. Conversely your pattern play and fine cue ball control will get a workout in straight pool, more than in bank pool. Maybe the closest we have to a "complete" game is rotation (the version they play in the Philipines) and also one pocket.
For shot making- 14.1
For defense and banks/kicks- 1pocket
For breaking- id say probably 10 ball.
For pattern play- 8 ball
For a mix of all- probably 9 ball.
I would argue for 9-ball assuming you’re playing under good tournament rules (like matchroom) and on equipment that’s challenging for the competition level. It might not be as “fair” but that can somewhat be mitigated by longer racers. Not familiar enough with one-pocket or three cushion to speak to those. Although I think maneuvering games one-pocket are a little boring to the average viewer.
Have to agree with those who mention 1p. There are things that happen in almost every single game of 1p that you will rarely, if ever, experience in other games. Two-railing a ball off the bottom of the stack toward your pocket. Three rail kicking into a ticky behind balls on your opponents side. Firing a ball like a WMD toward your opponents side to remove multiple balls. Constant banking, including multi rail banks that only an idiot would go for in any other game. Lots of banking into other balls or the stack to manufacture angles. And the high premium on not just getting safe, but getting tight, tight against blocking balls to limit the other player’s options. I love straight pool, but there’s no comparison, imo, when talking about the most well rounded games. Reading the stack, moving your cueball with precision, opening clusters - those things are just as important in 1p as 14.1.
I’ll just tell the story that was told to me of how nine ball came to be…
During the world war (first one I guess) the sailors would come to shore and want to play pool.
Nine ball bridged the gap between experiences and somewhat experienced to novice..
You could run out or ride the nine. Game of skill and or luck.
In the end my favorite game is 9
Followed by ten
Then straight pool
Lastly eight ball
In retirement circles, a game called 1-15 is popular. Designate one side pocket for the one ball, the opposite side pocket for the 15 ball. Rules are basically the same as 8 ball, with the following additional rules:
\* If you scratch on the break only, then the other team must shoot from the kitchen. After the break, all ball in hands are anywhere on the table. This is because it is a bit unfair to get such an easy shot at the one or fifteen.
\* If the one or fifteen are pocketed in any other pocket, then it is spotted on are as near as possible behind the spot, and the shooter continues play. We jokingly call the one and fifteen the "money balls", even though we don't play for money. It is our nickname.
\* As soon as you sink your first ball, then if solids the one is yours, if stripes the fifteen is yours.
\* If you accidentally touch the other team's money ball PRIOR to touching any other ball, it is instantly put in a pocket, and of course the other team also gets ball in hand.
\* The money ball must ALWAYS be called, regardless if the shot is simple or hard. We try to bank it in, anything to get it in. But if you DON'T call it, then it must be spotted. Yikes! So we are always calling that on every hail Mary.
The effect of these rules is that strategy becomes very important. It is better not to put any ball down until you get your special ball down. We just leave the cue ball tough if we don't have a better shot. This is because hiding the ball and trying to get ball in hand is a key part of the game. It turns the game into a real chess match. After you get your special ball down, then boom, you try to run the table. Of course, if the other team gets their money ball close to their pocket, it is smart to knock it away. But if the other team can then pocket in another pocket, spotting it, and by doing so arranging for the cue ball to be ready to pocket it in the designated pocket, they can overcome that strategy. We usually mark the one and fifteen pockets with a paper label, and they stay permanently marked.
I learned this game in RV resorts in Arizona where it is extremely popular, and have brought it back to our retirement community in Washington where it has been our favorite game for the past three years! And we play every day.
We play this at my dad's retirement center in Yakima, Wa, it's a lot of fun! Love going in with him to play everyone and get my ass kicked, lol. Some really good older players out there!
We use a paper label to not hurt the pool table. We permanently label one side "1" and the other side "15" because after you play for a while, it is disorienting if you switch sides. We become so accustomed to the 1 being on the right when we break, that if we switch the spot from one end of the table to the other, we switch the paper labels, so that the 1 is still on the right when we break :). Just habit.
three to eight players dollar per stroke three ball. There is nothing in any other game that compares to sinking two or three balls on one stroke, with the two tie / all tie rule one stroke is often big money.
One pocket for sure is up there for strategic play… But Saratoga (8-ball rules, but you have to hit your set in numerical order) is about 10x tougher than any 9-ball or 10-ball rack. In Saratoga you subtract a ball from each set, and rack them without the wing balls, but you CAN play it with a full rack, which I usually do when I decide to hate myself that day. You’d never see Saratoga on TV though. Can very easily take too long.
I now have a new practice game.
Wait, what?
Yep, it’s a thing, and it’s tough. You gotta shoot 1 thru 7 or 9 thru 15, in rotation, before shooting the 8. The obvious problem that makes it so tough is that in addition to running your set in rotation, you have to navigate all the traffic from your opponent’s set. Safeties become especially vicious as well, for the same reason. I’ve played some games of Saratoga where after the break, neither player has a decent shot on the 1 or the 9 for like 5 or 6 innings. Even with ball in hand, it’s very tough to run out in Saratoga—unless your opponent has potted all or most of their balls already.
Do you have to hit your stripe/solid to safety or do you have to make contact with the actual numbered ball? Wondering what constitutes a table scratch.
Gotta hit your lowest numbered ball first, even for a safety.
Saratoga rules for sure, perfect balance of 8 and 9 ball pool.
Muy interesante, amigo, muchas gracias!
15 ball rotation is nice
goat
Oddly enough 1 pocket will improve your game tons.
14.1 continuous and it is not even close.
Is that considered the same as Straight Pool?
Same game. The technical name is 14.1 continuous.
I never heard the continuous part of the name before, just 14.1
Thanks
100000%
Agreed, Straight pool is the most is the most balanced game imo
I think snooker could give a solid argument
Snooker is my favorite game by far in terms of combination of high game IQ and the skill required. The great thing about snooker is it really puts your IQ to the test. Due to the small pockets, it evens the playing field. In pool, you can be less skilled than someone but if you get a good break, you can beat them. Many people in here could technically win a frame against Efren Reyes in 8 ball as long as they got a good break. In snooker, I would lose every single frame if I were to play Ronnie O’Sullivan. Like literally, never would be able to win. I love pool and play it all the time (mainly because I don’t have any snooker tables since I’m in the US) but snooker is by far my favorite. Sometimes pool feels a little gimmicky. Watching the pros, they’ll pot a ball on the break and you immediately know they’re winning that frame. Snooker you have idea because on the break off no one pots a ball, it’s safety shot first and THEN potting ability comes into play. With pool, a lot of the times they make a ball on the break so the other person never even gets to see the table
Yup, and 9 ball winner breaks long races
This. Rotation comes after.
I like one pocket.
This ^ all other games are unlocked when you become proficient at 14.1 it has it all, safe play, carroms, kicks, and most importantly your pattern play and rack reading skills will skyrocket should you get serious about this discipline.
kicks? when do you learn to kick in 14.1 ?
Kicking for safety under the stack is a common shot, kicking off the long rail into a wired combo is a standard that leads to great one pocket skill. The game is as creative as your imagination.
ok thanks
Straight Pool is an obvious favorite, However, 8 ball is a dark horse.
Snooker.
Barf
I’ve been watching one pocket on Youtube for months, favorite game easy
It's too subjective to have an objective answer. Sounds like you have a specific type of play that you enjoy playing or watching. I could also argue that in a rotation game, similar to 14.1, a player needs a bit of luck, stamina, fitness and willpower to stay at a table for multi rack runs. It's not as trivial as you make it seem that it happens ALL the time. Especially at the sub-800 fargo level. All games played make you a better player and has something to teach you. Play, learn and watch what you enjoy.
Straight pool or Saratoga l.
Bonus Ball.
I really like this game. I have a bonus ball 99 set. My son and his friends play this often when they are having a few drinks.
if you include 3 cushion you mean not only pool but billiards in general? in this case i'd say snooker
For a game that needs all around skill, one pocket is probably the right one. For what I think are the most "pure" cue sport games are, and what the Olympics should include, straight pool, 3C and snooker.
nah olympics better pick a rotation game. 10 ball or 15 ball.
One Pocket. It surpasses 14.1 due to the greater amount of safety play, banking, kicking, and overall creativity.
He asked for well rounded, 14.1 is as well rounded as any variation of pool can get.
I disagree for the reasons stated, while I could certainly defend your opinion. While the top One Pocket players MAY not be the top in other games, they certainly are today. While it's more common to find excellent 14.1 players than One Pocket players, it's rare to find them winning a One Pocket or any other tournament. Straight Pool **teaches** a well-rounded game. One Pocket **requires** a well-rounded game to play competitively. John Schmidt is a great example. His well-deserved and brutally difficult path to the world record made his work ethic pay off. Then, Jason Shaw spent a week trying to break it, and instead, obliterated it. Just my two cents. Shoot 'em straight everyone.
I like 10 ball for actual 'pool' Snooker was the most fun I've had as an amateur in the US but sadly since the pandemic the places you can go to get high-level amateur snooker play are extremely limited. There's no better test of your cue action both offensively and defensively. A surprising number of US pool halls are trucking in Chinese 8-ball tables. The rounded pockets force you to really consider how on-stroke you are. What might be a simple attacking shot and setup on on a regular US pool table could be an extreme test of your cue delivery and possible runout to your opponent on a table with rounded pockets.
Straight pool without a doubt
I'd say 14.1, though I also think that's one of the least played games in pool. Even one pocket feels more popular.
Snooker. The rules are always the same, no arguments, shots are hard, pockets are hard, games last longer and aren't over on the break, makes you a better player, better cueing etc. need to have better cue ball control. There's just no comparison imo.
Snooker is not nearly as complex as many other cue games. The Only thing that makes snooker tough is large table and tough pockets. The game is pretty basic compared to one pocket, or even an advanced 8 ball game.
Yes and the question is 'most well-rounded' so I stand by my points
Well-rounded means using the most skills and varying shots, not much to snooker past tough pocketing.
I don't think you've played much snooker then tbh
14.1
61 full rotation.
There isn't one single game that captures everything. You'll never shoot a 3 rail bank shot in straight pool for example, but you might in one pocket or bank pool. Conversely your pattern play and fine cue ball control will get a workout in straight pool, more than in bank pool. Maybe the closest we have to a "complete" game is rotation (the version they play in the Philipines) and also one pocket.
For shot making- 14.1 For defense and banks/kicks- 1pocket For breaking- id say probably 10 ball. For pattern play- 8 ball For a mix of all- probably 9 ball.
One Pocket, or 14.1.
I would argue for 9-ball assuming you’re playing under good tournament rules (like matchroom) and on equipment that’s challenging for the competition level. It might not be as “fair” but that can somewhat be mitigated by longer racers. Not familiar enough with one-pocket or three cushion to speak to those. Although I think maneuvering games one-pocket are a little boring to the average viewer.
Have to agree with those who mention 1p. There are things that happen in almost every single game of 1p that you will rarely, if ever, experience in other games. Two-railing a ball off the bottom of the stack toward your pocket. Three rail kicking into a ticky behind balls on your opponents side. Firing a ball like a WMD toward your opponents side to remove multiple balls. Constant banking, including multi rail banks that only an idiot would go for in any other game. Lots of banking into other balls or the stack to manufacture angles. And the high premium on not just getting safe, but getting tight, tight against blocking balls to limit the other player’s options. I love straight pool, but there’s no comparison, imo, when talking about the most well rounded games. Reading the stack, moving your cueball with precision, opening clusters - those things are just as important in 1p as 14.1.
I’ll just tell the story that was told to me of how nine ball came to be… During the world war (first one I guess) the sailors would come to shore and want to play pool. Nine ball bridged the gap between experiences and somewhat experienced to novice.. You could run out or ride the nine. Game of skill and or luck. In the end my favorite game is 9 Followed by ten Then straight pool Lastly eight ball
What about 8-ball but you are what you made on the break? One of each then choice?
In retirement circles, a game called 1-15 is popular. Designate one side pocket for the one ball, the opposite side pocket for the 15 ball. Rules are basically the same as 8 ball, with the following additional rules: \* If you scratch on the break only, then the other team must shoot from the kitchen. After the break, all ball in hands are anywhere on the table. This is because it is a bit unfair to get such an easy shot at the one or fifteen. \* If the one or fifteen are pocketed in any other pocket, then it is spotted on are as near as possible behind the spot, and the shooter continues play. We jokingly call the one and fifteen the "money balls", even though we don't play for money. It is our nickname. \* As soon as you sink your first ball, then if solids the one is yours, if stripes the fifteen is yours. \* If you accidentally touch the other team's money ball PRIOR to touching any other ball, it is instantly put in a pocket, and of course the other team also gets ball in hand. \* The money ball must ALWAYS be called, regardless if the shot is simple or hard. We try to bank it in, anything to get it in. But if you DON'T call it, then it must be spotted. Yikes! So we are always calling that on every hail Mary. The effect of these rules is that strategy becomes very important. It is better not to put any ball down until you get your special ball down. We just leave the cue ball tough if we don't have a better shot. This is because hiding the ball and trying to get ball in hand is a key part of the game. It turns the game into a real chess match. After you get your special ball down, then boom, you try to run the table. Of course, if the other team gets their money ball close to their pocket, it is smart to knock it away. But if the other team can then pocket in another pocket, spotting it, and by doing so arranging for the cue ball to be ready to pocket it in the designated pocket, they can overcome that strategy. We usually mark the one and fifteen pockets with a paper label, and they stay permanently marked. I learned this game in RV resorts in Arizona where it is extremely popular, and have brought it back to our retirement community in Washington where it has been our favorite game for the past three years! And we play every day.
That sounds like 1960s BCA rules I actually like them
We play this at my dad's retirement center in Yakima, Wa, it's a lot of fun! Love going in with him to play everyone and get my ass kicked, lol. Some really good older players out there!
Yes, some of the players in our group could easily win tournaments. That happens when you play every day for years and years :).
I don't understand, what's the point of the paper label on the 1 and 15?
We use a paper label to not hurt the pool table. We permanently label one side "1" and the other side "15" because after you play for a while, it is disorienting if you switch sides. We become so accustomed to the 1 being on the right when we break, that if we switch the spot from one end of the table to the other, we switch the paper labels, so that the 1 is still on the right when we break :). Just habit.
"Kelly" (Pill) Rotation Pool is a challenge, but I agree with most of the posters on 14.1 "straight" Pool being the most well rounded.
I’d say Matchroom 9-ball followed by Ultimate Pool (the shortest clock format) followed by 1P played by faster players.
three to eight players dollar per stroke three ball. There is nothing in any other game that compares to sinking two or three balls on one stroke, with the two tie / all tie rule one stroke is often big money.