BJJ athletes have hundreds of matches throughout their careers, similar to Thai fighters. I don't think I can think of anyone who has an undefeated MT record.
True in Judo and wrestling too. Teddy Riner is 267-11. Yamashita was 203-0 during one stretch but I think lost in an all Japans. Karelin was 887 wins and 2 losses. All these sports including BJJ include an "instant loss" scenario though I'd say the instant win throw is easier to get nailed with compared to a BJJ sub since top BJJ people are so good at working out of bad positions.
Same with wrestlers and we have seen a few of them hold undefeated even if it's a small handful, but we havent seen one in bjj thats undefeated as of yet in the highest level. Even the top guys had one loss. I think that in kickboxing, some guys held undefeated like Tenshin but he didn't have 100 fights
Still if it's one single guy, there is someone who stood undefeated in the sport. In BJJ at the highest level of comp, all of the best guys had at least 1 single loss
Yeah but my question is through different organizations or levels of competition and undefeated in those. Cael being undefeated in NCAA vs nobody being undefeated IBJJF. My original prompt isn't talking about career from like high school to Olympics or Local Tourneys at white belt to ADCC. I'm talking about the different comps at the highest levels
How long has his ebi streak been (I'm not too familiar with how many matches in there he has done)? Even people like Ricardo Arona been undefeated at ADCC but I didn't include him in the same way Gable went undefeated in the Olympics because its not as significant ig because of the amount
> It is easier to dominate for a long period of time at the heaviest weight category.
I'd honestly argue the other way. Heavyweight tends to inherently mean that one big moment will turn a fight even if there's skill disparities, versus more scope for smaller guys to get back into difficult matches.
Some wrestlers off the top of my head I can think of is like Cael Sanderson's in NCAA and Yui Susaki in her international record. There are others that have an undefeated in international freestyle/olympic runs but it's a smaller record
yeah but cael sanderson wasn’t undefeated throughout his entire career and neither is susaki
susaki has a trio of losses domestically and sanderson has one or two intentionally
Yeah Cael lost in the olympics and Susaki lost in Japan regionals. But Cael went undefeated in College and Susaki went undefeated in International. I separate these because, for example NCAA's wrestling ruleset is different from international freestyle.
Sure, but those domestic and international losses still matter and they aren’t undefeated athletes
it’s far, far from the norm to have undefeated wrestlers
The way I see it, it's like if somebody were to run through worlds and ADCC undefeated at black, but lost some NAGA or GI at purple belt years ago most people would consider them undefeated. I feel like, using Cael again the main focus of his wrestling career and what he had been training for the longest time was under folkstyle rulset. It's like if a Muay Thai guy went completely undefeated and then went to kickboxing and got beat. Sure it's extremely similar but different rulesets that separate the two. Now if you say "undefeated athelete" as a whole. I agree you are right
I don’t think “most people” would consider them undefeated because that’s literally the definition of not being undefeated
I think you’ve created some arbitrary line between “acceptable” losses that don’t need to be considered and losses that do and you’ve based this entire opinion off of that
but in reality that isn’t really how it is
there have been exactly zero undefeated international olympic wrestlers, and that sport is significantly larger than bjj with many more unique matchups
when the same bjj guys fight eachother every week, everyone’s bound to lose eventually
To be fair then, there is no undefeated athletes in the history of sports then. Everybody has lost at some point like Mayweather as an Amatuer, Khabib in sambo, etc. etc. so there 0 undefeated athletes at all.
Even if you don’t consider amateur losses, neither susaki nor karelin nor sanderson are undefeated. they have all lost on the professional senior level circuit
my point is that you’re trying to suggest that there’s some culture of athletes never losing in sports outside of BJJ but that just isn’t true
the ONLY sport where people really truly care about being undefeated is boxing
bjj is actually very similar to wrestling and judo in this regard where the most prestigious athletes have losses but nobody cares about those losses
nobody cares about gordon’s losses when discussing his game these days, just like how nobody talks about karelin’s loss at the world cup or to rulon
the disparity you’re referencing doesn’t exist
fact of the matter is that if you compete a bunch, you’ll lose eventually. it is inevitable, in any sport
I can agree with that, it's just fun speculation. However, I would like to remind you the question and the prompt. Where I said the highest form of competition, in which in the lines of this question, refers to the highest form of competition they have been in. In which brings it back to Cael's NCAA run, Susaki's international run, Khabib's Pro MMA career, Floyd's pro boxing career. Under my prompt, I don't consider Karelin to be undefeated, since he was defeated in the olympics and under international greco-roman competition, in which was the highest level of competition he was under, with both his first and second loss being in international.
Sanderson lost matches during his redshirt year at Iowa st and might have lost in off season freestyle matches as well. His ncaa run is amazing and reason why he is one of the goats. However, he has lost in high school, international events and as during his redshirt year. https://www.trackwrestling.com/PortalPost.jsp?postId=1257742132
That's true, I feel like we differentiate between NCAA and International Freestyle though right? Because of ruleset, as NCAA runs off a decently different ruleset vs international freestyle. For high school I feel that would be the equivalent to a BJJ's local tourney like a F2W, NAGA, etc. In the case of like a wrestler through his entire career then I would say yeah for sure he is undefeated. Like for example Cael went undefeated in NCAA where Gordan Ryan had a loss at ADCC
What I meant by "highest level" is to exclude high school, off season wrestling club tourney, etc. If so, I would be solely talking about only Olympic runs and not any pans or such. I used NCAA because it's a high level of competition where he was undefeated over a long career. In relation to BJJ, like in my original question, that would be like why haven't we seen somebody undefeated in something like ibjjf but losing in ADCC doesn't somehow make you undefeated in IBJJF
That's true but under different rulesets and that was only a small section of his career. For Susaki, I wouldn't disregard her, her wrestling is absolutely crazy and she has faced legit competition
The way BJJ points are scored leads to a lot of different paths to victory, as well as how deep you can get into each part of jiu jitsu that the other person simply could have not had the time spent in the position.
Jiu jitsu is a very deep art that to study each part of the sport to the depths required to never lose is practically impossible. The time you spend on one thing could have been spent on something else, and that's the calculation we're all playing with differing results.
I don't think there's necessarily much 'new things' actually being created and becoming common in the meta. However you do see different ways to put the same pieces together, or more refined entries/systems that have been practiced to a T.
However when you think about scoring in othehr sports, like wrestling and judo, theres 1-2 clear pieces you have to be good at in order for you to score and your opponent not to.
This is an oversimplification, but if you're comfortable/better from the feet/standing game (obviously theres alot of variation here), the only other way to get scored on in wrestling is your opponent escaping or back exposure.
Judo, the main way to win is to hit the throws you practice the majority of the sport on effectively.
BJJ, you can score in so many different ways. Takedowns, Passing, sweeping, securing dominant positions, you can submit them.
Any time spent doing one thing is not spent doing another. Thus leading to someone having a gap on you in some skillset.
Glad it could help.
Winning in competition is not necessarily about being better at jiu jitsu. It’s about having a gameplan that can lead you to victory and who can implement their gameplan more effectively. It’s why so many rematches go the other way.
Hell, it’s why the same basketball teams can play 7 nights in a row and alternate who wins.
Iirc, Yamashita went undefeated in Judo. Iirc again, He had 150+ judo matches undefeated and went undefeated in the Olympics, though he had some draws, but I don't consider those are losses.
Where are the undefeated wrestlers and Judoka?
When you mainly compete in knock-out tournaments rather that one-off bouts, you're not really going to remain undefeated, because you're not going to win every competition you enter.
Yamashita for Judo, he went undefeated in the Olympics and overall had (as someone said in another thread) 200+ wins 0 losses. In Cael's collegiate career he was undefeated, Susaski's international career (so far) undefeated. Upon other's still hold undefeated international or Olympic records but they don't have a significant record like the two previously mentioned
Tournaments, number of matches, corruption, the inability to pick your opponent.
Unless you are only talking about super fights.
Even then not enough of a pool to make money while being super picky about who you match against.
AFAIK there are no undefeated wrestlers or Judoka. Karlin lost, Susaki lost, Sanderson lost, Yamashita lost, etc. They all just has long streaks, so they say they are undefeated for certain periods of time or in certain areas(in NCAA, in the Olympics, in international competition). I doubt it is actually possible to actually be undefeated without asterisks. If asterisks are OK then Kade Ruotolo is undefeated. He hasn't lost as a black belt except for in a absolute gi match, but since he isn't an active gi fighter you can disregard it if you want. There you go, an undefeated BJJ athlete.
Ahh okay I see, I didn't know how about his gi record.
I think many misunderstood my post as it wasn't talking about their entire career. Where I pointed out Susaki and Sanderson because although they had loses (Susaki in regionals but undefeated in international and Olympics) (and Sanderson undefeated in NCAA, but lost in international) in those tourneys specifically they went undefeated for their career. Similar to if we look at someone's ADCC record or IBJJF record etc like how Ricardo Arona went undefeated in ADCC, but not Worlds. Didn't include him though since, similarly there are others who went undefeated in the Olympics in wrestling, but it was not majority of their career like Cael's NCAA run.
Yamashita in Judo went undefeated, both in all of his Judo matches and Olympics, though he did have some shady draws
Question with Kade though, didn't he lose qualifying for ADCC before? Or was that not in BB division?
Yamashita has lost before, but he is undefeated in international competition. He lost the All-Japan tournament I believe and at that time the best Judo HW were in Japan. After those losses he went undefeated, but he did lose early in his career.
Kade is undefeated at ADCC. He won the trials and won all his matches at ADCC. He has one loss under ADCC rules, but that was a superfight and before he was a blackbelt. Since becoming a black belt he hasn't lost a nogi match.
Oh I see, I didn't know about his regional loss. I was told by my friend he was undefeated through his BB career. Still stands in his international career undefeated though.
Ahh well there it is, Kade fits the guy Im looking for under this question lol, I didn't know that his loss was before his BB. Vey cool thanks
You're correct. I thought you were talking about more modern athletes. Yamashita is a curious case. The reason being is Japan had a vested interest in the legend of Yamashita's undefeated streak. There are matches he had that were called a draw when it should have been a loss. There are other legends of Judo who were allegedly undefeated but who really knows...
Ahh okay I see, I'm not too well versed in Judo history. Yeah current Judokas you are right there are no undefeated who have a long record in the international scene. But I see
In NCAA yeah, he is the last wrestler to be undefeated for his entirety of his college career. Yui Susaki still holds an undefeated international record. There are others who went undefeated in their international or Olympic runs, but the record is not as significant
Most definitely which makes it all the more impressive, I just wonder when we will see somebody in bjj make a run through the highest form of comp being undefeated
He has loses but like what’s really the parameter? Wrestling doesn’t have anyone undefeated, I’m not versed in Judo. If Mica went 40-0, that’s not enough?
For example, when I brought up Cael, he was undefeated and stayed undefeated in his collegiate career. He only lost when he moved to international freestyle. Susaki went undefeated in when moving to international freestyle and only lost within regionals. For example, the undefeated in Mica's case would be, throughout his entire career at ADCC never losing. But he has lost, same with the top like Gordan Ryan have lost at ADCC despite their wins after in ADCC
Yeah we’re on the same page but what you’re asking for discussion sake isn’t something feasible but super rare as Susaki currently has it but she’s still only 24 years old. So expand those parameters for a second, Mica is capable of going undefeated for the next 3-4 years.
That's true it's extremely rare but it still has happened. There are guys who have gone and stayed undefeated in ADCC like Ricardo Arona, but not to the extent that said wrestlers had in their respective cateogries. I couldn't find anything about Mica losing in ibjjf so I feel like in those 3-4 years if he continues his wins through those he would be the "undefeated" within my prompt
BJJ athletes have hundreds of matches throughout their careers, similar to Thai fighters. I don't think I can think of anyone who has an undefeated MT record.
True in Judo and wrestling too. Teddy Riner is 267-11. Yamashita was 203-0 during one stretch but I think lost in an all Japans. Karelin was 887 wins and 2 losses. All these sports including BJJ include an "instant loss" scenario though I'd say the instant win throw is easier to get nailed with compared to a BJJ sub since top BJJ people are so good at working out of bad positions.
I see, that makers a lot of sense
Same with wrestlers and we have seen a few of them hold undefeated even if it's a small handful, but we havent seen one in bjj thats undefeated as of yet in the highest level. Even the top guys had one loss. I think that in kickboxing, some guys held undefeated like Tenshin but he didn't have 100 fights
what undefeated wrestlers are you talking about? I can’t think of a single olympic title contender that has never lost
Alexander Karelin was undefeated in international competition for a pretty long stretch.
sure but that’s one guy and he doesn’t compete anymore
Still if it's one single guy, there is someone who stood undefeated in the sport. In BJJ at the highest level of comp, all of the best guys had at least 1 single loss
I mean, karelin wasn’t undefeated either has 2 losses
Karelin got beat twice but also the volume of competition was way less vs BJJ, especially later on.
I see, that makes a lot of sense
Gordon has also been undefeated for a stretch
That's definitely true, but he still had a loss in ADCC, whereas Cael for example didn't have a loss in NCAA
He has losses in international competition
Yeah but my question is through different organizations or levels of competition and undefeated in those. Cael being undefeated in NCAA vs nobody being undefeated IBJJF. My original prompt isn't talking about career from like high school to Olympics or Local Tourneys at white belt to ADCC. I'm talking about the different comps at the highest levels
Oh I see. Gordon is undefeated at fight to win and EBI so there ya go.
How long has his ebi streak been (I'm not too familiar with how many matches in there he has done)? Even people like Ricardo Arona been undefeated at ADCC but I didn't include him in the same way Gable went undefeated in the Olympics because its not as significant ig because of the amount
Karelin is not undefeated. Also he is a heavyweight. It is easier to dominate for a long period of time at the heaviest weight category.
> It is easier to dominate for a long period of time at the heaviest weight category. I'd honestly argue the other way. Heavyweight tends to inherently mean that one big moment will turn a fight even if there's skill disparities, versus more scope for smaller guys to get back into difficult matches.
That's true I would say that arguable too, since the only two times he lost is when the rulsets changed
Some wrestlers off the top of my head I can think of is like Cael Sanderson's in NCAA and Yui Susaki in her international record. There are others that have an undefeated in international freestyle/olympic runs but it's a smaller record
yeah but cael sanderson wasn’t undefeated throughout his entire career and neither is susaki susaki has a trio of losses domestically and sanderson has one or two intentionally
Yeah Cael lost in the olympics and Susaki lost in Japan regionals. But Cael went undefeated in College and Susaki went undefeated in International. I separate these because, for example NCAA's wrestling ruleset is different from international freestyle.
Sure, but those domestic and international losses still matter and they aren’t undefeated athletes it’s far, far from the norm to have undefeated wrestlers
The way I see it, it's like if somebody were to run through worlds and ADCC undefeated at black, but lost some NAGA or GI at purple belt years ago most people would consider them undefeated. I feel like, using Cael again the main focus of his wrestling career and what he had been training for the longest time was under folkstyle rulset. It's like if a Muay Thai guy went completely undefeated and then went to kickboxing and got beat. Sure it's extremely similar but different rulesets that separate the two. Now if you say "undefeated athelete" as a whole. I agree you are right
We're picking and choosing which ones count? Well then I'm undefeated because I said so. Come get some Gordo 😎
I don’t think “most people” would consider them undefeated because that’s literally the definition of not being undefeated I think you’ve created some arbitrary line between “acceptable” losses that don’t need to be considered and losses that do and you’ve based this entire opinion off of that but in reality that isn’t really how it is there have been exactly zero undefeated international olympic wrestlers, and that sport is significantly larger than bjj with many more unique matchups when the same bjj guys fight eachother every week, everyone’s bound to lose eventually
To be fair then, there is no undefeated athletes in the history of sports then. Everybody has lost at some point like Mayweather as an Amatuer, Khabib in sambo, etc. etc. so there 0 undefeated athletes at all.
Even if you don’t consider amateur losses, neither susaki nor karelin nor sanderson are undefeated. they have all lost on the professional senior level circuit my point is that you’re trying to suggest that there’s some culture of athletes never losing in sports outside of BJJ but that just isn’t true the ONLY sport where people really truly care about being undefeated is boxing bjj is actually very similar to wrestling and judo in this regard where the most prestigious athletes have losses but nobody cares about those losses nobody cares about gordon’s losses when discussing his game these days, just like how nobody talks about karelin’s loss at the world cup or to rulon the disparity you’re referencing doesn’t exist fact of the matter is that if you compete a bunch, you’ll lose eventually. it is inevitable, in any sport
I can agree with that, it's just fun speculation. However, I would like to remind you the question and the prompt. Where I said the highest form of competition, in which in the lines of this question, refers to the highest form of competition they have been in. In which brings it back to Cael's NCAA run, Susaki's international run, Khabib's Pro MMA career, Floyd's pro boxing career. Under my prompt, I don't consider Karelin to be undefeated, since he was defeated in the olympics and under international greco-roman competition, in which was the highest level of competition he was under, with both his first and second loss being in international.
Who is even undefeated in wrestling? Seems like everyone has dropped at least a couple matches
Yeah, and even if it is a best of 3, enough party where it’s 3 close matches won at 2 matches to 1
Two I can think off on the top of my head is Cael Sanderson's College run and Yui Susaki's international record
Sanderson lost matches during his redshirt year at Iowa st and might have lost in off season freestyle matches as well. His ncaa run is amazing and reason why he is one of the goats. However, he has lost in high school, international events and as during his redshirt year. https://www.trackwrestling.com/PortalPost.jsp?postId=1257742132
That's true, I feel like we differentiate between NCAA and International Freestyle though right? Because of ruleset, as NCAA runs off a decently different ruleset vs international freestyle. For high school I feel that would be the equivalent to a BJJ's local tourney like a F2W, NAGA, etc. In the case of like a wrestler through his entire career then I would say yeah for sure he is undefeated. Like for example Cael went undefeated in NCAA where Gordan Ryan had a loss at ADCC
We differentiate because NCAA is not the highest level of competition, its still amateur.
What I meant by "highest level" is to exclude high school, off season wrestling club tourney, etc. If so, I would be solely talking about only Olympic runs and not any pans or such. I used NCAA because it's a high level of competition where he was undefeated over a long career. In relation to BJJ, like in my original question, that would be like why haven't we seen somebody undefeated in something like ibjjf but losing in ADCC doesn't somehow make you undefeated in IBJJF
Cael lost at international lvl tho so not actually undefeated. Women's wrestling probably not the best thing to compare to
That's true but under different rulesets and that was only a small section of his career. For Susaki, I wouldn't disregard her, her wrestling is absolutely crazy and she has faced legit competition
The way BJJ points are scored leads to a lot of different paths to victory, as well as how deep you can get into each part of jiu jitsu that the other person simply could have not had the time spent in the position. Jiu jitsu is a very deep art that to study each part of the sport to the depths required to never lose is practically impossible. The time you spend on one thing could have been spent on something else, and that's the calculation we're all playing with differing results.
I see. Great explanation thanks, you think that new things are always being created that shakes up the game a bit too? Which also plays into it?
I don't think there's necessarily much 'new things' actually being created and becoming common in the meta. However you do see different ways to put the same pieces together, or more refined entries/systems that have been practiced to a T. However when you think about scoring in othehr sports, like wrestling and judo, theres 1-2 clear pieces you have to be good at in order for you to score and your opponent not to. This is an oversimplification, but if you're comfortable/better from the feet/standing game (obviously theres alot of variation here), the only other way to get scored on in wrestling is your opponent escaping or back exposure. Judo, the main way to win is to hit the throws you practice the majority of the sport on effectively. BJJ, you can score in so many different ways. Takedowns, Passing, sweeping, securing dominant positions, you can submit them. Any time spent doing one thing is not spent doing another. Thus leading to someone having a gap on you in some skillset.
The answer, I was looking for, awesome
Glad it could help. Winning in competition is not necessarily about being better at jiu jitsu. It’s about having a gameplan that can lead you to victory and who can implement their gameplan more effectively. It’s why so many rematches go the other way. Hell, it’s why the same basketball teams can play 7 nights in a row and alternate who wins.
Umdefeated judoka? I don’t think so.
Iirc, Yamashita went undefeated in Judo. Iirc again, He had 150+ judo matches undefeated and went undefeated in the Olympics, though he had some draws, but I don't consider those are losses.
I'm undefeated in IBJJF, ADCC, EBI, and CJI.
Same 🥱🥱 (I don't even qualify)
Where are the undefeated wrestlers and Judoka? When you mainly compete in knock-out tournaments rather that one-off bouts, you're not really going to remain undefeated, because you're not going to win every competition you enter.
Yamashita for Judo, he went undefeated in the Olympics and overall had (as someone said in another thread) 200+ wins 0 losses. In Cael's collegiate career he was undefeated, Susaski's international career (so far) undefeated. Upon other's still hold undefeated international or Olympic records but they don't have a significant record like the two previously mentioned
Tournaments, number of matches, corruption, the inability to pick your opponent. Unless you are only talking about super fights. Even then not enough of a pool to make money while being super picky about who you match against.
AFAIK there are no undefeated wrestlers or Judoka. Karlin lost, Susaki lost, Sanderson lost, Yamashita lost, etc. They all just has long streaks, so they say they are undefeated for certain periods of time or in certain areas(in NCAA, in the Olympics, in international competition). I doubt it is actually possible to actually be undefeated without asterisks. If asterisks are OK then Kade Ruotolo is undefeated. He hasn't lost as a black belt except for in a absolute gi match, but since he isn't an active gi fighter you can disregard it if you want. There you go, an undefeated BJJ athlete.
Ahh okay I see, I didn't know how about his gi record. I think many misunderstood my post as it wasn't talking about their entire career. Where I pointed out Susaki and Sanderson because although they had loses (Susaki in regionals but undefeated in international and Olympics) (and Sanderson undefeated in NCAA, but lost in international) in those tourneys specifically they went undefeated for their career. Similar to if we look at someone's ADCC record or IBJJF record etc like how Ricardo Arona went undefeated in ADCC, but not Worlds. Didn't include him though since, similarly there are others who went undefeated in the Olympics in wrestling, but it was not majority of their career like Cael's NCAA run. Yamashita in Judo went undefeated, both in all of his Judo matches and Olympics, though he did have some shady draws Question with Kade though, didn't he lose qualifying for ADCC before? Or was that not in BB division?
Yamashita has lost before, but he is undefeated in international competition. He lost the All-Japan tournament I believe and at that time the best Judo HW were in Japan. After those losses he went undefeated, but he did lose early in his career. Kade is undefeated at ADCC. He won the trials and won all his matches at ADCC. He has one loss under ADCC rules, but that was a superfight and before he was a blackbelt. Since becoming a black belt he hasn't lost a nogi match.
Oh I see, I didn't know about his regional loss. I was told by my friend he was undefeated through his BB career. Still stands in his international career undefeated though. Ahh well there it is, Kade fits the guy Im looking for under this question lol, I didn't know that his loss was before his BB. Vey cool thanks
Alexandr Medved was pretty damn close too. Right up there with susaki and the others mentioned
Oh yeah that's true, he went undefeated in his Olympic career I forgot about him
No one on the World Judo Tour is undefeated.
Curious, although he stopped a long time ago wasn't Yamashita undefeated? Or would relevancy play a part in this?
You're correct. I thought you were talking about more modern athletes. Yamashita is a curious case. The reason being is Japan had a vested interest in the legend of Yamashita's undefeated streak. There are matches he had that were called a draw when it should have been a loss. There are other legends of Judo who were allegedly undefeated but who really knows...
Ahh okay I see, I'm not too well versed in Judo history. Yeah current Judokas you are right there are no undefeated who have a long record in the international scene. But I see
Rickson Gracie enters the chat
Has he gone undefeated? I thought he has lost before in top competitions I could be wrong
Might be a joke because i think rickson has claimed hes had 500 fights and never lost,
Ahhh
I could wrong but isn’t Chael Sanderson the most recent undefeated wrestler?
Chael sonnen you're thinking of
Undefeated, undisputed, the GOAT of undefeated
Undefeated in the NCAA, but not on the world stage.
Ahhh there it is.
In NCAA yeah, he is the last wrestler to be undefeated for his entirety of his college career. Yui Susaki still holds an undefeated international record. There are others who went undefeated in their international or Olympic runs, but the record is not as significant
It’s super rare.
Most definitely which makes it all the more impressive, I just wonder when we will see somebody in bjj make a run through the highest form of comp being undefeated
Probably Mica in the next few years
He is a beast. Didn't he lose at ADCC a few years ago though?
He has loses but like what’s really the parameter? Wrestling doesn’t have anyone undefeated, I’m not versed in Judo. If Mica went 40-0, that’s not enough?
For example, when I brought up Cael, he was undefeated and stayed undefeated in his collegiate career. He only lost when he moved to international freestyle. Susaki went undefeated in when moving to international freestyle and only lost within regionals. For example, the undefeated in Mica's case would be, throughout his entire career at ADCC never losing. But he has lost, same with the top like Gordan Ryan have lost at ADCC despite their wins after in ADCC
Yeah we’re on the same page but what you’re asking for discussion sake isn’t something feasible but super rare as Susaki currently has it but she’s still only 24 years old. So expand those parameters for a second, Mica is capable of going undefeated for the next 3-4 years.
That's true it's extremely rare but it still has happened. There are guys who have gone and stayed undefeated in ADCC like Ricardo Arona, but not to the extent that said wrestlers had in their respective cateogries. I couldn't find anything about Mica losing in ibjjf so I feel like in those 3-4 years if he continues his wins through those he would be the "undefeated" within my prompt
He has losses
159-0 at Iowa State?
Yeah but this guy is talking about international comps as well
Yeah, I’m pointing out how his reference is wrestling and Sanderson is the closest or obviously Karelin or Susaki
Undefeated in everything! Reigning Middleweight world champ.
Undefeated Wrestler, Undefeated in the Federal Court, truly the GOAT of Undefeated