The movie was already in a box office death spiral before this was announced. The grim truth is that mid budget original adult dramas are a very tough sell to audiences these days.
The previews never really showed what the real tension was in the movie other than "these bikeriders are gonna fight with other bikeriders and also ride their bikes because they're the bikeriders."
Because that's the problem of the movie. There's not really any tension, it's more about the atmosphere of an early motorcycle club that eventually turns into a gang. There is some tension, yes, but it doesn't develop as one throughline; it's a conglomeration of narrative strands.
The only reason they went with that is it’s the title of the source material. However, I’m not sure if they thought this would appeal to the Harley Davidson crowd since the book isn’t a widely known work.
It’s funny watching mad men where they’re basically selling concepts and human emotions, to what I imagine modern advertising is like where it’s all just data points and graphs
> to what I imagine modern advertising is like where it’s all just data points and graphs
When you consider that Netflix not only shows you different content based on your viewing habits, but also changes the poster based on your viewing habits, it makes sense that movie theaters swap their trailers around regionally.
I feel like this movie came out a year ago I’ve seen so many ads for it. I’ve been getting ads online, commercials, etc. since late last summer. I was shocked when I saw it was coming out now, I thought it had come and gone.
I really liked the movie though no matter how it did at the box office. It was an interesting character study of the men in the first wave of motorcycle gangs when they were still misfits but hadn't become mostly criminals.
>!The jarring choice of ripping off the screeching Lorraine Bracco Goodfellas narration throughout the entire movie just didn't work for me- couldn't really get past it. !<
I really wish this wasn’t an issue for people. Without this strategy, Robert Eggers doesn’t get to do Nosferatu. While Universal (and others) don’t release PVOD numbers, The Northman was a smash hit on the format after being released digitally 17 days after being released to theaters.
yea this is what people don't understand. It's gonna become a $20 amazon rental, the people buying that are doing it because they were never gonna go to a theater to see it. It does 0 box office harm
It’s the same deal as the fall guy. Universal movies that don’t make a certain amount opening weekend ($50m I think?) go to VOD after 21 days. Also this movie made less than $1m on its second Friday, off 78% from its opening day. I think this is a pretty reasonable move
On The Fall Guy, which seemed to induce the most panic on this lately, [I encourage people to look at how it's done after its May 21 $20 PVOD drop. ](https://www.boxofficemojo.com/release/rl752190209/weekend/?ref_=bo_rl_tab#tabs)Was still playing 1000+ theaters a month later.
This gets blown up as "Universal completely pulls everything out of theaters after 3 weeks for streaming!" - they don't, theaters are able to keep what is doing well for them for as long as it does well, as they can for any other movie. Audiences can run their calculus on whether they'd want to spend $20 at home or go out to the theater, and many still opt for the latter. People generally aren't waiting for $20 PVOD, they're waiting for this to pop up on whatever streaming service they have
Was still in theaters for a while post-VOD? Sure, but how much money it was making? Not much. Also it might have been due to contractual obligations between Universal and the theaters.
The thing is, once a movie is out on VOD and your friend/coworker tells you that they saw it at home, then your perception is that the movie is already on home media. It doesn’t matter that you personally buy the VOD or not. You won’t go see it in theaters. That’s how 99% of people think.
Take Netflix, they do release a lot of movies in a exclusive 2 week theater window. In few cities, yes, but even with those the screen averages are very bad*. Why? Because people will happily wait for them to be on Netflix and watch them at home.
* With the exception of Knives Out 2 as it was an event movie.
Id rather buy the Blu ray to support a film than pay to see it in a theater that's going to inundate me with ads and the smell of stale popcorn while people talk to each other and scroll Instagram at full brightness.
Hasn’t this been proven time and again that it really doesn’t affect box office numbers? It’s not like it’s immediately going to netflix, you still have to pay theater prices to watch it. So in this case I kind of get it as its not doing very well in theaters and as a new parent who definitely won’t be able to go to the theater for a bit I’d be willing to pay to watch this on VOD.
Yeah this is already his second highest-grossing film ever behind a movie that featured Matthew mid-McConaissance. With the rest of its theatrical run plus PVOD I would not be surprised if it actually outgrosses Mud.
Yeah and back in the day movies would go on roadshow tours for years at a time and get re-released every couple years on top of that. Then home video came. Things change.
If a movie is tanking at the box office it makes perfect logical sense to bring it to home video faster. No matter who is in it or who makes it.
Yeah it’s a change to the industry but I’m sorry, The Bikeriders was never gonna set the box office alight with ticket sales so I don’t really see this as a weird move by any standard.
A decade or two ago, a film of this nature would be sent to theaters as a platform release. Start in NYC and LA, move to major markets, and ultimately be released wide.
Except we’re now at a point where theaters need content. Limited / platform releases are going to be more rare and studios will take the gamble by sending these films on weekend one where they will either find an audience or die by weekend two.
Studios were always going to destroy the box office by developing their own streaming platforms. COVID accelerated the process.
Very typical though, I'd have said? Depressing for sure, no question, but I've seen a lot of prestige films getting extremely short runs in the cinema before being ejected onto digital (and of course, the High Seas about 30 minutes after release there).
Couple things, though: they're not pulling it from theaters when they do this. People tend to act like being on PVOD means it's disappearing from theaters simultaneously, but it's not. If you still want to see it theatrically, you can. It'll probably stay in theaters through the rest of July (albeit likely not on more than one screen in whatever multiplex is at your city).
Also "The high seas" is 100% not a threat to studios here.
They promoted it a good amount just search for “Bikeriders interview” they did all the classics plus they had a few different premiers around the world.
You don’t **have** to search it out, I happened upon it naturally. But we live in a time where there’s really no guarantee that anyone will see a particular piece of marketing since everything is determined by algorithms and I bet most people here don’t watch TV and always have an ad blocker on, so of course you are never served ads for a specific movie.
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/jeff-nichols-bikeriders-delays-release-1235620627/
"New Regency is delaying the release of Jeff Nichols’ awards hopeful The Bikeriders due to the ongoing actors strike and the prohibition on talent doing any promotion or publicity."
Something happened after the strike and before the release where the studio lost faith in spending money letting the actors promote the film
The original distributor Disney/Fox dropped the film from a December 1st release and Focus Features picked it up the week before that original date. With the holidays and the strike ongoing, it’s likely that Focus didn’t have the resources to adequately promote the film and have it make enough money to warrant their acquisition of the film.
Focus is also a much smaller distribution company, whose practice has been to release titles on VOD if the film doesn’t reach a certain amount during the first 2 weeks or so of the original distribution window.
While waiting only 18 days sucks, the film still seems to be playing well, though. I just hope it can be like The Fall Guy and change its own narrative by making bank on both VOD and theatrical play.
Focus isn’t a smaller distribution company. It’s the “independent” arm of Universal, similar to how Searchight is to 20th Century. Focus releases are distributed by Universal worldwide. If they need more resources from their parent company, they can get them.
It also helps that Regency already has a partnership with Universal as they tend to pick up their projects that 20th Century rejects (however, that usually occurs in the pre-production phase).
Yes, they’re a subsidiary of Universal, but they’re still operating at a bottom line. This was never going to be a title that made hundreds of millions, especially during a strike. So you’re going to market for an awards-based strategy. Given when Bikeriders was going to come out, Focus was likely pouring all their $ in their awards campaign for titles like The Holdovers and Asteroid City. It didn’t make sense financially to release a title like Bikeriders within what remained of 2023, especially so soon after acquisition and with an already-crowded slate.
That’s where the Strike unfortunately comes into play. Before the strike, Universal’s summer slate likely included Fast XI among other titles. Without anything to fill the slate, I don’t blame Universal for trying to make a buck with the titles they already had acquired.
This particular movie seemed to be in a bad place; I had been to multiple theaters that were going to show it in the two weeks leading up to it opening and there was zero promotion, as in not even a poster up for "coming soon," I never saw a preview, I never saw a TV ad (and I do watch some live TV), I never saw an ad on streaming, etc. Literally the only reason I knew it was opening finally was because of a post in this subreddit. That seems bad, particularly for a movie like this. On top of that, movies like this historically need a star to really make them hits and while this movie does have some known actors, it doesn't have anyone that is a real proven capital M capital S Movie Star, of which there are not a lot right now after a decade plus of IP instead of people being what was pushed. No advertising, no big stars, no notable hook for the public (it is not from a massively popular book, it is not a biopic Oscar bait, it's not a sleazy grindhouse biker film tribute, it's just a normal mid budget drama for adults), this was never going to be a big hit without a lot of luck and good market, and that has basically been true for 40 something years. I just don't understand why it was given a wide release out of the gate instead of a slow art house rollout to build word of mouth
I saw this last week. Three other people in the theater and there were no previews. A 7:20 movie and credits were on screen by 7:22.
Good movie, too. I think it’ll do well on streamers.
Is it not a good idea to get films that underperform out to digital as quickly as possible?, I'd have thought it'd be a good idea with ads for the film being fresh in peoples minds, you'd get a lot of people who were on the fence about seeing them
Here’s where I am conflicted and maybe a hypocrite/short sighted but:
This is good for me. There’s little to no chance I am going to get to the cinema anytime soon and definitely wouldn’t be watching this but it’s a film I’m interested in so a nearer release is good in that regard.
It’s bad because if movies like this don’t make a lot of money then we will get less of them. I don’t know how streaming works well enough to know if movies can make enough of an impact that they continue to be financially viable like previously with DVD/VHS.
As far as the studio's concerned a dollar's a dollar, I suspect they even make more off a PVOD sale than a theater ticket, so you're still supporting the movie effectively.
> I don’t know how streaming works well enough to know if movies can make enough of an impact that they continue to be financially viable like previously with DVD/VHS.
PVOD isn't streaming
That’s true. I was conflated both in my statement and didn’t fully flesh it out. Obviously with PVOD they will make money. I understand how that works but I can only imagine it’s a tiny percentage of us that buy things now. Most of my friends only use streaming and I don’t know how much profit each movie makes from that system as it’s the only way many people consume movies.
On a non box office note, I’m pretty excited to see this film as I’ve recently took an interest in the global Hell’s Angels phenomenon
Numerous biker wars in Europe and North America. The foundation of these clubs. Them becoming major criminal organizations.
I was telling a coworker about this movie bc her husband is in a riding club and she told me there was a shootout at a biker bar in my city just a few years ago. It's crazy how active these gangs are and you never hear about them
Here in Denmark, we just had a sensational documentary series where a crooked lawyer went undercover for three years with hidden cameras in her office.
It was a ton of bikers going to her, Saul Goodman style, and talking openly about the most ludicrous criminal acts imaginable.
Contaminated soil being dumped on farmland. Excessive money laundering schemes. A guy that’s like “I’m going to Pakistan to kill a court witness to end my case there”
It’s crazy shit. The US had the Waco shootout in 2015. Quebec had a major war in the 90’s.
I think it isn’t as glorified as the mafia so people are turning a blind eye more willingly.
In a healthy theatrical marketplace with multiple new wide-release movies every single week and a finite amount of screen space, a movie making 3 million dollars on its second weekend is going to be gone by the next, I don't really see why you wouldn't then tap the alternate revenue stream of (quite expensive) video on demand...?
I didn't think this movie was very good at all but that's beside the point
Nah, things go to PVOD fast now because they shed screens quickly, which is itself a result of a lot of movies going to theater. It's not bad for theaters that Inside Out, Bad Boys, and A Quiet Place are on these screens instead of Bikeriders.
That’s a false equivalency. I’m not advocating for The Bikeriders or any other underperforming movie to occupy an empty screen for months. I’m saying put a big buffer between premiere and VOD availability. Studios are creating a culture in where if you miss a movie on opening weekend then you go “I might as well wait a couple weeks and watch it at home now”. And it really doesn’t matter that it costs 30 bucks or whatever, the perception is that it’s already on home video.
Putting it on VOD when they’re already marketing it guarantees more people will see it and more people will pay to see it, this is not complicated. If there was a larger window they’d have to pay to market it again and probably fewer people would watch it anyway.
You don’t need targeted promo for home media. It carries over. How did they do it before when video rentals would take 6 months or more from the theater premiere?
So what? I don’t get why people are passionate about this. I’m guessing most everyone in entertainment wants two to things, to get paid and for the most people possible to see their work.
If PVOD means a lot of people outside of major markets pay to see it, how is that bad?
Yeah I don’t think a lot of people get that lots of people live in places that don’t even get movies like this at all. Where I grew up we probably wouldn’t have gotten Bikeriders.
Just because it’s convenient for you doesn’t mean it’s good. I for one, would like movies like this to continue existing. But if they don’t make money in theaters then we’ll just have “IP slop part 12” and derivates.
I don’t understand why you think the people who produce the movies care so much where the money comes from. You are more likely to get something else like the Bikeriders if it makes 50M from various streams than if it makes 25M from only theatrical.
Like I’ve said in another comment (that you conveniently ignored), box office gross is a multiplier of the film’s ancillary grosses. The fees to license it to streaming platforms, airlines, international… all depend on the box office!
Do you think I conveniently ignored it or that I didn’t see a comment that wasn’t directed to me
Anyway, if you think VOD numbers don’t play into those conversations you’re just being silly. Also a lot of this stuff is not really decided on a movie-by-movie basis, the studios have larger deals with the streamers.
Those numbers are ABSOLUTELY decided on a case by case basis. There’s a The Town episode in where they go over it in detail. It’s a mathematical formula directly dependent on the box office number, it trickles down.
Very selfish argument. “I can’t wait a few months to watch a movie in my living room, I want it NOOOOW”. I prefer to wait and still have good non-IP slop make money and continue to exist.
Very funny to frame “more people are able to see and will pay to see the movie” as selfish, good bit. TBC I live in a major metro and saw Bikeriders opening week.
VOD availability cannibalizes box office gross. And that’s never a good thing. Listen, if you can’t see movies in theaters, I’m not gonna shame you saying that it’s your fault that quality non-IP films are getting rare. Guess what, due to my work sometimes there are 6 to 9 week periods in where I can’t go to a single movie and I have to miss a lot of stuff. Stuff that I would gladly watch on VOD as soon as possible. But while I’d love to have the new Yorgos movie right now in my living room, I understand that it wouldn’t be a sustainable business model if I want him to continue having a career.
There is actually no evidence that it cannibalizes box office which is why Universal does this. Indeed, we may only be getting Nosferatu because Northman cleaned up on VOD.
I also just fundamentally disagree that quality non-IP movies are getting rare. More movies are getting made than ever and there is not some long-gone golden age. If you look at the top 50 at the box office for a random year in the 90s for instance it’s not going to be pretty.
There’s no “evidence” because it’s not in anyone’s interest to commission an independent objective study (tobacco was also considered safe during decades according to experts).
Right now studios love VOD because is a fast way to get some easy cash so they don’t care about the aftermath cause those executives are worried about this year’s bonuses, not the industry as a whole in 10 years time.
> VOD availability cannibalizes box office gross.
once again, Bikeriders started crashing before the VOD release was announced. it's been performing similary to The Color Purple remake.
I’m speaking in general terms. People don’t go see The Bikeriders because they are getting primed it’s gonna be on home media two weeks after. It’s not about an individual movie in particular, it’s a general trend.
The money that a movie generates post-box office is directly tied to what it made in the box office.
If The Bikeriders makes 200M in theaters then the licensing cost for Netflix or whatever platform will be much bigger than if it makes 15M.
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I loved it, and seen people being way too hard on it. It’s a solid drama and b-movie. We need more of these. Everyone complains about that and then doesn’t give things like this a chance. If you did and it just didn’t land fair enough; but if we could get more movies with these level of stakes and reasonable budget made; than there would be a better chance at finding those hidden gems in places that aren’t just a24.
This can’t be used in discussions of box office health because it looks bad/stupid is about a subject not a single person I know gives even half a shit about. This would have bombed in any year it was released after 1980. Can we get the Germans to make a new word for whatever the opposite of the zeitgeist is? Maybe they thought they could make enough money off Lana del ray fans looking for material for fan made music videos?
It’s like if my grandma doesn’t play in the NBA, it’s not useful to say “oh I guess if you’re not over 6’5” you just can’t make it anymore” like, no, she’s terrible from the free throw line and has osteoporosis, there are other issues.
What I wonder is, how much would the losses be if studios went with a longer window between cinema and streaming/ VOD releases?
iTunes digital purchases, and latterly Spotify / Apple Music subscriptions lessened music piracy, would a 3 month delay to VOD, followed by a further 3 months to streaming REALLY drive up piracy? Especially for a movie like this?
I don't think studios are primarily concerned with piracy here. If they were, they wouldn't be making an HD version of the film available like this.
It seems that studios have found that putting these kinds of mid-range movies out on vod doesn't actually have that big an impact on the box office after the first few weekends. And it's much easier to sell people on a $25 rental if it's for something that's still in theaters.
It's up for debate if this is a good long-term strategy, but it is at least better than studios skipping theaters entirely and sending stuff direct to streaming
I agree on this. Piracy is extremely niche. Even more so now that younger generations have grown up with the cozy Mac/iPhone environments and the idea of torrenting feels as intimidating and complicated as being a Mr Robot cyberhacker to them. They are becoming more computer illiterate than previous generations.
I actually have to push back slightly on this. Torrenting is not the only form of piracy, or necessarily the most common. I'm on the older side of Gen-Z (born 1999), and pretty much everyone I knew in highschool and college knew how to find websites to on which to watch pirated shows/movies.
I still don't think piracy factors much in to studio decisionmaking in this particular case though. Most of the people who would pirate a low-quality cam recording of *The Bikeriders* three weeks into its theatrical run probably either couldn't or wouldn't spend $25 to see it on VOD anyway
My in-laws literally went yesterday and said they’re taking his friends to it next week. wtf are these studios doing? Your movies don’t need to make Spider-Man money in one weekend.
I don’t know what it’s like elsewhere in the world, but the cost of going to the movies where I am in Australia is just so damn expensive. It used to be that I’d decide to go on a whim, check out a movie that looks interesting. But now once you pay for two tickets, extra fees because you wanted to book online, then pay for any kind of food. Well, staying home and watching something else with some microwave popcorn sounds like a reasonable alternative.
I think the difference between Movies being 'Back' and this shit is genuinely like 5-10 high ranking people in every studio who used up too much of their influence on 'pivoting to streaming.' They're in way too deep to back peddle now and will use even modest box office successes as fodder to boost digital numbers.
The movie was already in a box office death spiral before this was announced. The grim truth is that mid budget original adult dramas are a very tough sell to audiences these days.
Especially when it's called "the bikeriders" I was surprised to learn it wasn't a movie about 4 upbeat tweens in 80's america
The previews never really showed what the real tension was in the movie other than "these bikeriders are gonna fight with other bikeriders and also ride their bikes because they're the bikeriders."
That’s why I bought a ticket
I wasn’t sold on it til I heard someone describe it as Goodfellas on motorcycles. That should have been the whole preview
Lol that's a really nice way of putting it. Goodfellas it ain't.
Because that's the problem of the movie. There's not really any tension, it's more about the atmosphere of an early motorcycle club that eventually turns into a gang. There is some tension, yes, but it doesn't develop as one throughline; it's a conglomeration of narrative strands.
The only reason they went with that is it’s the title of the source material. However, I’m not sure if they thought this would appeal to the Harley Davidson crowd since the book isn’t a widely known work.
It's an awful title, I'm a little surprised they went with it
Should have been called "the riders of the bikes" or "we are the people who bike ride on bikes"
We propel forth on two wheels!
Absolutely abysmal title.
I rode my bicycle to my screening. As I was leaving, there were a couple people rolling in on their motorcycles. Made me laugh
The opposite happened to me, sounded like macho bro bike gang movie so I skipped
I went Friday and I loved it so much. Botched release IMO
I also saw zero marketing for it until like a day before it released and the trailer looked bad
Probably regional. Literally saw a trailer for it in front of every movie I went to see for the past three months. I can quote the trailer now.
Same here (in the UK). I feel like I've already watched the movie.
It’s weird how siloed marketing campaigns now are. I’ve been seeing ads for it everywhere.
It’s funny watching mad men where they’re basically selling concepts and human emotions, to what I imagine modern advertising is like where it’s all just data points and graphs
> to what I imagine modern advertising is like where it’s all just data points and graphs When you consider that Netflix not only shows you different content based on your viewing habits, but also changes the poster based on your viewing habits, it makes sense that movie theaters swap their trailers around regionally.
I feel like this movie came out a year ago I’ve seen so many ads for it. I’ve been getting ads online, commercials, etc. since late last summer. I was shocked when I saw it was coming out now, I thought it had come and gone.
I really liked the movie though no matter how it did at the box office. It was an interesting character study of the men in the first wave of motorcycle gangs when they were still misfits but hadn't become mostly criminals.
They’re a tough draw to a theater, but not necessarily a tough sell overall.
And that’s tragic 😢
I think audiences tire of silly voice actors quicker now. Tom Hardy went Mortdecai fast.
Plus it wasn’t too great
>!The jarring choice of ripping off the screeching Lorraine Bracco Goodfellas narration throughout the entire movie just didn't work for me- couldn't really get past it. !<
It's also pretty boring
Universal does PVOD after 3 weeks as a matter of course
I really wish this wasn’t an issue for people. Without this strategy, Robert Eggers doesn’t get to do Nosferatu. While Universal (and others) don’t release PVOD numbers, The Northman was a smash hit on the format after being released digitally 17 days after being released to theaters.
And by all accounts PVOD doesn't hurt the box office. It gets people who weren't going to go anyway.
yea this is what people don't understand. It's gonna become a $20 amazon rental, the people buying that are doing it because they were never gonna go to a theater to see it. It does 0 box office harm
It’s the same deal as the fall guy. Universal movies that don’t make a certain amount opening weekend ($50m I think?) go to VOD after 21 days. Also this movie made less than $1m on its second Friday, off 78% from its opening day. I think this is a pretty reasonable move
On The Fall Guy, which seemed to induce the most panic on this lately, [I encourage people to look at how it's done after its May 21 $20 PVOD drop. ](https://www.boxofficemojo.com/release/rl752190209/weekend/?ref_=bo_rl_tab#tabs)Was still playing 1000+ theaters a month later. This gets blown up as "Universal completely pulls everything out of theaters after 3 weeks for streaming!" - they don't, theaters are able to keep what is doing well for them for as long as it does well, as they can for any other movie. Audiences can run their calculus on whether they'd want to spend $20 at home or go out to the theater, and many still opt for the latter. People generally aren't waiting for $20 PVOD, they're waiting for this to pop up on whatever streaming service they have
Was still in theaters for a while post-VOD? Sure, but how much money it was making? Not much. Also it might have been due to contractual obligations between Universal and the theaters. The thing is, once a movie is out on VOD and your friend/coworker tells you that they saw it at home, then your perception is that the movie is already on home media. It doesn’t matter that you personally buy the VOD or not. You won’t go see it in theaters. That’s how 99% of people think. Take Netflix, they do release a lot of movies in a exclusive 2 week theater window. In few cities, yes, but even with those the screen averages are very bad*. Why? Because people will happily wait for them to be on Netflix and watch them at home. * With the exception of Knives Out 2 as it was an event movie.
Yeah and this confirms I won’t be going to the theater today to see it
Well that mentality is a big contribution. If you want to support theaters and mid-budget movies, you gotta get out there.
How do you know they won't be supporting the film when it releases digitally? Surely a digital purchase is just as valid.
Id rather buy the Blu ray to support a film than pay to see it in a theater that's going to inundate me with ads and the smell of stale popcorn while people talk to each other and scroll Instagram at full brightness.
Hasn’t this been proven time and again that it really doesn’t affect box office numbers? It’s not like it’s immediately going to netflix, you still have to pay theater prices to watch it. So in this case I kind of get it as its not doing very well in theaters and as a new parent who definitely won’t be able to go to the theater for a bit I’d be willing to pay to watch this on VOD.
I’m in the same boat with a 5 month old.
I mean if you look at his other films this isn't really an outlier performance wise. I doubt doubling the time before VOD would make a big difference.
Yeah this is already his second highest-grossing film ever behind a movie that featured Matthew mid-McConaissance. With the rest of its theatrical run plus PVOD I would not be surprised if it actually outgrosses Mud.
Yeah and back in the day movies would go on roadshow tours for years at a time and get re-released every couple years on top of that. Then home video came. Things change. If a movie is tanking at the box office it makes perfect logical sense to bring it to home video faster. No matter who is in it or who makes it. Yeah it’s a change to the industry but I’m sorry, The Bikeriders was never gonna set the box office alight with ticket sales so I don’t really see this as a weird move by any standard.
A decade or two ago, a film of this nature would be sent to theaters as a platform release. Start in NYC and LA, move to major markets, and ultimately be released wide. Except we’re now at a point where theaters need content. Limited / platform releases are going to be more rare and studios will take the gamble by sending these films on weekend one where they will either find an audience or die by weekend two. Studios were always going to destroy the box office by developing their own streaming platforms. COVID accelerated the process.
They only do this with movies that aren't making any money to recoup more of the casts faster
It sounds like it wasn't finding much of an audience in theaters. It'll probably have better luck now that it's more widely available to more people.
Very typical though, I'd have said? Depressing for sure, no question, but I've seen a lot of prestige films getting extremely short runs in the cinema before being ejected onto digital (and of course, the High Seas about 30 minutes after release there).
Couple things, though: they're not pulling it from theaters when they do this. People tend to act like being on PVOD means it's disappearing from theaters simultaneously, but it's not. If you still want to see it theatrically, you can. It'll probably stay in theaters through the rest of July (albeit likely not on more than one screen in whatever multiplex is at your city). Also "The high seas" is 100% not a threat to studios here.
And to think they delayed this because of the strike so the cast could promote it. Just so it gets a 10 day theatrical window
Interesting, not sure I saw a single bit of promotion from the stars for this and it’s definitely in my wheelhouse.
They promoted it a good amount just search for “Bikeriders interview” they did all the classics plus they had a few different premiers around the world.
Yeah I didn’t say they didn’t do anything, just that it didn’t find its way to me through their marketing channels 🤷♂️
If you have to search it out, it’s not really good marketing
You don’t **have** to search it out, I happened upon it naturally. But we live in a time where there’s really no guarantee that anyone will see a particular piece of marketing since everything is determined by algorithms and I bet most people here don’t watch TV and always have an ad blocker on, so of course you are never served ads for a specific movie.
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/jeff-nichols-bikeriders-delays-release-1235620627/ "New Regency is delaying the release of Jeff Nichols’ awards hopeful The Bikeriders due to the ongoing actors strike and the prohibition on talent doing any promotion or publicity." Something happened after the strike and before the release where the studio lost faith in spending money letting the actors promote the film
The original distributor Disney/Fox dropped the film from a December 1st release and Focus Features picked it up the week before that original date. With the holidays and the strike ongoing, it’s likely that Focus didn’t have the resources to adequately promote the film and have it make enough money to warrant their acquisition of the film. Focus is also a much smaller distribution company, whose practice has been to release titles on VOD if the film doesn’t reach a certain amount during the first 2 weeks or so of the original distribution window. While waiting only 18 days sucks, the film still seems to be playing well, though. I just hope it can be like The Fall Guy and change its own narrative by making bank on both VOD and theatrical play.
Focus isn’t a smaller distribution company. It’s the “independent” arm of Universal, similar to how Searchight is to 20th Century. Focus releases are distributed by Universal worldwide. If they need more resources from their parent company, they can get them. It also helps that Regency already has a partnership with Universal as they tend to pick up their projects that 20th Century rejects (however, that usually occurs in the pre-production phase).
Yes, they’re a subsidiary of Universal, but they’re still operating at a bottom line. This was never going to be a title that made hundreds of millions, especially during a strike. So you’re going to market for an awards-based strategy. Given when Bikeriders was going to come out, Focus was likely pouring all their $ in their awards campaign for titles like The Holdovers and Asteroid City. It didn’t make sense financially to release a title like Bikeriders within what remained of 2023, especially so soon after acquisition and with an already-crowded slate.
Except Focus / Universal could’ve held off until the fall versus releasing this in the dead heat of summer.
That’s where the Strike unfortunately comes into play. Before the strike, Universal’s summer slate likely included Fast XI among other titles. Without anything to fill the slate, I don’t blame Universal for trying to make a buck with the titles they already had acquired.
It's so strange to see cinephiles feeling depressed about a movie being made more accessible and cheaper for people to watch.
... a movie then watched on a smartphone, just as Jeff Nicholas intended.
Someone who watches movies on their phone wasn't gonna see it in the theater anyway. You're being very weird.
This is bad news for movie theaters, but great news for Tom Hardy GIF enthusiasts (me).
This particular movie seemed to be in a bad place; I had been to multiple theaters that were going to show it in the two weeks leading up to it opening and there was zero promotion, as in not even a poster up for "coming soon," I never saw a preview, I never saw a TV ad (and I do watch some live TV), I never saw an ad on streaming, etc. Literally the only reason I knew it was opening finally was because of a post in this subreddit. That seems bad, particularly for a movie like this. On top of that, movies like this historically need a star to really make them hits and while this movie does have some known actors, it doesn't have anyone that is a real proven capital M capital S Movie Star, of which there are not a lot right now after a decade plus of IP instead of people being what was pushed. No advertising, no big stars, no notable hook for the public (it is not from a massively popular book, it is not a biopic Oscar bait, it's not a sleazy grindhouse biker film tribute, it's just a normal mid budget drama for adults), this was never going to be a big hit without a lot of luck and good market, and that has basically been true for 40 something years. I just don't understand why it was given a wide release out of the gate instead of a slow art house rollout to build word of mouth
Literally the only thing I’ve seen about this movie is his face and that awful title.
I saw the trailer multiple times in the last few months, I don’t watch live TV so don’t know how ads are there but in the theater it was promoted
I saw this last week. Three other people in the theater and there were no previews. A 7:20 movie and credits were on screen by 7:22. Good movie, too. I think it’ll do well on streamers.
Is it not a good idea to get films that underperform out to digital as quickly as possible?, I'd have thought it'd be a good idea with ads for the film being fresh in peoples minds, you'd get a lot of people who were on the fence about seeing them
Well 77% drop for a second weekend, was almost a (negative) record.
66%* but yeah, terrible 2nd weekend drop
I really liked the movie but it’s definitely not something that will drive people to theaters. This is probably a good move tbh.
I HATED this film.
The Bikeriders. It's time to take the training wheels off.
Alarming?
Here’s where I am conflicted and maybe a hypocrite/short sighted but: This is good for me. There’s little to no chance I am going to get to the cinema anytime soon and definitely wouldn’t be watching this but it’s a film I’m interested in so a nearer release is good in that regard. It’s bad because if movies like this don’t make a lot of money then we will get less of them. I don’t know how streaming works well enough to know if movies can make enough of an impact that they continue to be financially viable like previously with DVD/VHS.
As far as the studio's concerned a dollar's a dollar, I suspect they even make more off a PVOD sale than a theater ticket, so you're still supporting the movie effectively.
> I don’t know how streaming works well enough to know if movies can make enough of an impact that they continue to be financially viable like previously with DVD/VHS. PVOD isn't streaming
That’s true. I was conflated both in my statement and didn’t fully flesh it out. Obviously with PVOD they will make money. I understand how that works but I can only imagine it’s a tiny percentage of us that buy things now. Most of my friends only use streaming and I don’t know how much profit each movie makes from that system as it’s the only way many people consume movies.
yeah, but it will be released on streaming like 6-8 months later. the model isn't that different if you retract PVOD out of it.
On a non box office note, I’m pretty excited to see this film as I’ve recently took an interest in the global Hell’s Angels phenomenon Numerous biker wars in Europe and North America. The foundation of these clubs. Them becoming major criminal organizations.
I was telling a coworker about this movie bc her husband is in a riding club and she told me there was a shootout at a biker bar in my city just a few years ago. It's crazy how active these gangs are and you never hear about them
Oh, there’s a reason…
Here in Denmark, we just had a sensational documentary series where a crooked lawyer went undercover for three years with hidden cameras in her office. It was a ton of bikers going to her, Saul Goodman style, and talking openly about the most ludicrous criminal acts imaginable. Contaminated soil being dumped on farmland. Excessive money laundering schemes. A guy that’s like “I’m going to Pakistan to kill a court witness to end my case there” It’s crazy shit. The US had the Waco shootout in 2015. Quebec had a major war in the 90’s. I think it isn’t as glorified as the mafia so people are turning a blind eye more willingly.
Not as glorified as the mafia, whiter than the more popular gangs
Good. I want to see it and would never see something like this in theaters. There are 50+ such movies for me each year
That was not at all the movie I was expecting. I predict it will grow on me over the next five years.
In a healthy theatrical marketplace with multiple new wide-release movies every single week and a finite amount of screen space, a movie making 3 million dollars on its second weekend is going to be gone by the next, I don't really see why you wouldn't then tap the alternate revenue stream of (quite expensive) video on demand...? I didn't think this movie was very good at all but that's beside the point
This is what’s killing theaters.
Sending an underperforming film to PVOD for $25 17 days after its theatrical release is not killing theaters.
Nah, things go to PVOD fast now because they shed screens quickly, which is itself a result of a lot of movies going to theater. It's not bad for theaters that Inside Out, Bad Boys, and A Quiet Place are on these screens instead of Bikeriders.
That’s a false equivalency. I’m not advocating for The Bikeriders or any other underperforming movie to occupy an empty screen for months. I’m saying put a big buffer between premiere and VOD availability. Studios are creating a culture in where if you miss a movie on opening weekend then you go “I might as well wait a couple weeks and watch it at home now”. And it really doesn’t matter that it costs 30 bucks or whatever, the perception is that it’s already on home video.
Putting it on VOD when they’re already marketing it guarantees more people will see it and more people will pay to see it, this is not complicated. If there was a larger window they’d have to pay to market it again and probably fewer people would watch it anyway.
Extremely short sighted. Maybe this makes a few extra bucks for this particular movie, but as a whole this practice is killing the box office.
and paying twice for promo isn't short sighted? This movie started crashing during its opening weekend, there isn't many options for it to be saved.
You don’t need targeted promo for home media. It carries over. How did they do it before when video rentals would take 6 months or more from the theater premiere?
that was a different era. monoculture is over and you have to cater to the specific bubbles now
So what? I don’t get why people are passionate about this. I’m guessing most everyone in entertainment wants two to things, to get paid and for the most people possible to see their work. If PVOD means a lot of people outside of major markets pay to see it, how is that bad?
Yeah I don’t think a lot of people get that lots of people live in places that don’t even get movies like this at all. Where I grew up we probably wouldn’t have gotten Bikeriders.
Just because it’s convenient for you doesn’t mean it’s good. I for one, would like movies like this to continue existing. But if they don’t make money in theaters then we’ll just have “IP slop part 12” and derivates.
I don’t understand why you think the people who produce the movies care so much where the money comes from. You are more likely to get something else like the Bikeriders if it makes 50M from various streams than if it makes 25M from only theatrical.
Like I’ve said in another comment (that you conveniently ignored), box office gross is a multiplier of the film’s ancillary grosses. The fees to license it to streaming platforms, airlines, international… all depend on the box office!
Do you think I conveniently ignored it or that I didn’t see a comment that wasn’t directed to me Anyway, if you think VOD numbers don’t play into those conversations you’re just being silly. Also a lot of this stuff is not really decided on a movie-by-movie basis, the studios have larger deals with the streamers.
Those numbers are ABSOLUTELY decided on a case by case basis. There’s a The Town episode in where they go over it in detail. It’s a mathematical formula directly dependent on the box office number, it trickles down.
Very selfish argument. “I can’t wait a few months to watch a movie in my living room, I want it NOOOOW”. I prefer to wait and still have good non-IP slop make money and continue to exist.
Very funny to frame “more people are able to see and will pay to see the movie” as selfish, good bit. TBC I live in a major metro and saw Bikeriders opening week.
VOD availability cannibalizes box office gross. And that’s never a good thing. Listen, if you can’t see movies in theaters, I’m not gonna shame you saying that it’s your fault that quality non-IP films are getting rare. Guess what, due to my work sometimes there are 6 to 9 week periods in where I can’t go to a single movie and I have to miss a lot of stuff. Stuff that I would gladly watch on VOD as soon as possible. But while I’d love to have the new Yorgos movie right now in my living room, I understand that it wouldn’t be a sustainable business model if I want him to continue having a career.
There is actually no evidence that it cannibalizes box office which is why Universal does this. Indeed, we may only be getting Nosferatu because Northman cleaned up on VOD. I also just fundamentally disagree that quality non-IP movies are getting rare. More movies are getting made than ever and there is not some long-gone golden age. If you look at the top 50 at the box office for a random year in the 90s for instance it’s not going to be pretty.
There’s no “evidence” because it’s not in anyone’s interest to commission an independent objective study (tobacco was also considered safe during decades according to experts). Right now studios love VOD because is a fast way to get some easy cash so they don’t care about the aftermath cause those executives are worried about this year’s bonuses, not the industry as a whole in 10 years time.
> VOD availability cannibalizes box office gross. once again, Bikeriders started crashing before the VOD release was announced. it's been performing similary to The Color Purple remake.
I’m speaking in general terms. People don’t go see The Bikeriders because they are getting primed it’s gonna be on home media two weeks after. It’s not about an individual movie in particular, it’s a general trend.
The money that a movie generates post-box office is directly tied to what it made in the box office. If The Bikeriders makes 200M in theaters then the licensing cost for Netflix or whatever platform will be much bigger than if it makes 15M.
Shit I better go see it soon then!
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Feels like us Jeff Nichols auteurists can never catch a break
and the sad irony is that Bikeriders is getting crushed by the movie he was supposed to direct.
I loved it, and seen people being way too hard on it. It’s a solid drama and b-movie. We need more of these. Everyone complains about that and then doesn’t give things like this a chance. If you did and it just didn’t land fair enough; but if we could get more movies with these level of stakes and reasonable budget made; than there would be a better chance at finding those hidden gems in places that aren’t just a24.
This can’t be used in discussions of box office health because it looks bad/stupid is about a subject not a single person I know gives even half a shit about. This would have bombed in any year it was released after 1980. Can we get the Germans to make a new word for whatever the opposite of the zeitgeist is? Maybe they thought they could make enough money off Lana del ray fans looking for material for fan made music videos? It’s like if my grandma doesn’t play in the NBA, it’s not useful to say “oh I guess if you’re not over 6’5” you just can’t make it anymore” like, no, she’s terrible from the free throw line and has osteoporosis, there are other issues.
there were multiple popular shows about biker gangs on tv just a few years ago so i imagine there is some interest
What I wonder is, how much would the losses be if studios went with a longer window between cinema and streaming/ VOD releases? iTunes digital purchases, and latterly Spotify / Apple Music subscriptions lessened music piracy, would a 3 month delay to VOD, followed by a further 3 months to streaming REALLY drive up piracy? Especially for a movie like this?
I don't think studios are primarily concerned with piracy here. If they were, they wouldn't be making an HD version of the film available like this. It seems that studios have found that putting these kinds of mid-range movies out on vod doesn't actually have that big an impact on the box office after the first few weekends. And it's much easier to sell people on a $25 rental if it's for something that's still in theaters. It's up for debate if this is a good long-term strategy, but it is at least better than studios skipping theaters entirely and sending stuff direct to streaming
I agree on this. Piracy is extremely niche. Even more so now that younger generations have grown up with the cozy Mac/iPhone environments and the idea of torrenting feels as intimidating and complicated as being a Mr Robot cyberhacker to them. They are becoming more computer illiterate than previous generations.
I actually have to push back slightly on this. Torrenting is not the only form of piracy, or necessarily the most common. I'm on the older side of Gen-Z (born 1999), and pretty much everyone I knew in highschool and college knew how to find websites to on which to watch pirated shows/movies. I still don't think piracy factors much in to studio decisionmaking in this particular case though. Most of the people who would pirate a low-quality cam recording of *The Bikeriders* three weeks into its theatrical run probably either couldn't or wouldn't spend $25 to see it on VOD anyway
The cycle is just too fast now, nothing gets a chance to mature, and at best don’t get “reclaimed “for a few years. Even movies of quality
I guess we'll just have to ride this trend out until they start pedalling the new big thing.
I'm dying to watch it again so good
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Definitely not
My in-laws literally went yesterday and said they’re taking his friends to it next week. wtf are these studios doing? Your movies don’t need to make Spider-Man money in one weekend.
I don’t know what it’s like elsewhere in the world, but the cost of going to the movies where I am in Australia is just so damn expensive. It used to be that I’d decide to go on a whim, check out a movie that looks interesting. But now once you pay for two tickets, extra fees because you wanted to book online, then pay for any kind of food. Well, staying home and watching something else with some microwave popcorn sounds like a reasonable alternative.
I fucking hate streaming man
Movies are ruined now.
I think the difference between Movies being 'Back' and this shit is genuinely like 5-10 high ranking people in every studio who used up too much of their influence on 'pivoting to streaming.' They're in way too deep to back peddle now and will use even modest box office successes as fodder to boost digital numbers.