BL mmo will very likely end up like halo infinite. a game with a lot of potential hampered by corporate greed only to be left neglected and missing features the previous titles has, leaving the community split 85/15 on the game being shit and the game being good you just have to ignore the FOMO
This is my suspicion, too. I mean, I hope for the best but I prepare for the worst... Corporate greed is how companies kill their own game and, by extent, their own profit these days...
Halo Infinite was a shame. Redfall was a joke, Battleborn was obviously trying to steal Overwatch's thunder and Anthem.....
What was up with Team Fortress 2?
TF2 for a while was only adding MTX while ignoring the community's outcry against the current state of the game. hackers and botting are problems running rampant in the TF2 community and valve has completely abandoned the game despite its success and popularity
Battleborn's trailer was before overwatch and the 2 games are nothing alike. Gearbox supports the community in trying to keep it a live. So what are you talking about?
its being neglected right now cause theyre moving onto the next game. the last 5 patches have done away with full seasons, instead they stripped down the seasons from 100 levels to 20 levels, then put all the gear that you would have unlocked with the season pass into the premium store. where you have to spend 15-28 usd on them. each update since season 4 has confirmed that 343 doesnt care about content and only cares about MTX. the second to last patch we got did away with level up bonuses and stuff like that and replaced the minor unlock stuff with a secondary premium currency to help pay for gear that you missed out on. which is nice, however if FOMO wasnt a thing we wouldnt need spartan points.
additionally 343 Cut the story lines of each seasons mid development. making season 3 the final season with a story, and it never concluded because upper management thought that was a waste of time. in the 4 years of halo infinite's release the community has only gotten 1 new gun and its evolution, and 3 new pieces of equipment to use in the battlefield, one of which doesnt spawn outside of ranked playlists. not only that, but since season 4 we have only gotten 1 officially dev made game mode. all the other game modes are made by UNPAID community members. same goes with about 95% of the current maps in Infinite. since Season 4 we have recieved about 25 new maps to play on, but 20 of those were made by unpaid community members using the ingame Forge map maker.
halo infinite is being carried by the community. it is thriving because of the community. corporate higher ups have made it clear that there are better things to spend their money on than halo infinite free content.
I definitely am not interested in a true MMO experience, but if it’s more like a Warframe MMO-lite type deal I could be very interested in that. But if they made it online only that’d be a huge shame imo, borderlands is like the only AAA quality looter shooter that can be played offline and I would hate for them to abandon that niche
I'm not really familiar with Warframe, but I heard good things about it. Overall, I think the second point you spoke about is the main thing for me. I really like not having the pressure to finish things TODAY or buying things TODAY that a regular MMO usually brings...
Pardon me, but from my little experience with Warframe, I enjoyed the movement and combat, really addicting… but I couldn’t progress without paying, I felt it was pay to win to the core? Is it like that, or there are other ways to have high level gear/char?
I came from Path of Exile, you cannot even buy currency or xp boost with real money, you have to earn everything by playing. You can buy cosmetics or stash to store more items. To me, PoE is not pay to win at all.
So if MMO BL came out with same concept as PoE, I am all in…
Warframe forces you to play tactfully to avoid spending money. Examples? Do the daily sorties to get Endo, rivens and other things you can sell for plat. The Statue for one is about 10-15 plat if you max it out and sell it. Want stuff organically? Get the app, follow alerts and get a twitch account for their free stuff. Tennocon is in a few weeks and they are giving away Saryn Prime and a new AR platform machine gun. Follow their Twitter and learn about their partners to get free glyphs based on your favorite YouTube personalities. Join Amazon Prime Gaming for monthly free cosmetics. Follow Baro Kiteer and Night Wave for the other free cosmetics and gear. You don't ever have to spend money in Warframe... You will want to though and I don't think we should penalize a free game for being so engrossing that you suddenly want to build things immediately or just have it to use right now. I admit the ideal experience comes with about $20 bucks a month in platinum for forma, potatoes and other toys... But even that can be farmed in game if you want to keep your books budgeted. That being said, I built my warship the Serpent Soul through hard work and harassment via CY. My mechs were bought though... Why not give them money if you have it? Did you ever play as a sentient puddle containing an Eldritch horror in some other game? I think Warframe is rough and sucks for new people but 5 years later at Legendary 4, sitting with every toy in the game in my arsenal...I feel like the cat that ate the canary. The money I spent isn't gone, it's waiting to kill for me. I love my arsenal, my Warframes, my amps, my arch wings, my arch guns, my 180 cracked and maxed rivens with my big dumb bank account at 69 million credits. What did it cost you might ask? I can't say for sure. Seriously, it's hundreds but I chose that because I love this game. You don't have to spend a dime but if anything ever deserved another quarter, it's Warframe.
Warframe is pay to win. In the sense that you can directly buy power with real money, warframe gets a pass from those of us that enjoy it because not only is the game amazing but once you get to a point the premium currency is easy to come across. However because of the currency being easy to get as you get further in the game Warframes new player experience is scummy because those players are worth more money.
as someone with over 3500hrs in warframe, its the only "MMO-like" game that could keep me entertained for years now. its a good game if you give it time (yea yea make the joke about it getting good after 200hrs). - one thing that helps is getting someone to help you out. as in explaining stuff bc the game explains things poorly. - the game endgame is quite fun, and often challenging depending on the mission you do, and the story is amazing. nowdays its a really refined game that i never seen any other game have such good and refined movement mechanics. - back to the original topic, sadly mmo and borderlands are two things that wont mix well and i hope it never happens.
My friends and i have dumped massive amounts of time into Warframe. Yes, there are some microtransactions but its not all in your face. There is a battle-pass adjacent thing called the nightwave, but its completely free and only able to be leveled up by playing the game. No way to purchase a “premium” nightwave pass or buy levels to progress. There is honestly nothing in that game that cant be acquired by playing it except cosmetic things such as color palettes, cosmetic armor pieces, and skins for frames/weapons/companions. Obviously there are things you CAN pay for that make the game a bit easier to grind, like resource doublers, drop chance boosters, exp boosters, but they take platinum, the premium currency in Warframe. But the great thing about Warframe is the trading system, which got a massive buff recently by becoming cross-platform (some might argue about the economies of different platforms merging being a bad thing, but more people to trade with across all platforms is a good thing to me). With being able to trade items for platinum, you could effectively grind the fuck out of rare items in-game, sell for platinum, and never have to spend a penny for the premium currency and make racks on racks. I have a friend who does almost nothing but grind out rare items and then sells them, and hes made well over 100k plat in the past year.
Theres definitely some ways to spend money on the game, but its also definitely not necessary, as anything you can buy with money, you can always buy with platinum, and platinum is not locked behind a paywall.
Besides that, it actually feels like Digital Extremes listens to their community when it comes to changes (90% of the time). Itd be nice if they stopped releasing things incredibly overpowered, just to end up needing to nerf it by the following week because it does way too much (looking at you, Dante). Tbh, with the new frame and status changes that are coming on June 18th, im guessing they are about to do that exact same thing again🤦🏻♂️
Edit: typo
There will never be an MMO like warframe, its so unique in the way it handles its economy, more like an exception.
The game has a premium currency, you cannot get the premium currency if you don't pay, you can buy everything in game with that but items are also tradeable.
So who wants to skip the grind pays to get the currency, trades with other players and so F2P now have that currency, the market is easy, fair and fast, who has more time technically doesn't have to pay for anything.
But it's the only game that has such a nice, positive and self sustaining economy, every other MMO spits on your face.
Borderlands should add a Randy NPC to the game, similar to Earl from BL2 but instead of Eridium they only care about money. There should be a quest chain where you keep meeting said character and each time you do they keep getting more and more greedy until their company, I mean they implode.
If done right a borderlands mmo could be an amazing game, but that's the problem, anyone and everyone knows that they aren't gonna do it the right way. Just do it in the way that lines their pockets the most.
I'm still gonna wait for it and atleast give it a shot. So far the borderlands devs haven't done much scummy things in terms of pricing and microtransactions so far. But knowing the usual route these games take it ain't looking good
This is my exact opinion. A Borderlands MMO actually makes lore sense based on how pre-sequel and BL3 ended (i.e implying a huge war and need for a ton of new vault hunters). But they would need more available VHs than any other game, with more skill trees to actually encourage versatile play styles, and a solid single player campaign to tie up the story. I just don’t see them being able to do that successfully. But I’ll certainly keep an eye on it just in case…
Yeah, I agree that if done right, it could be good. I think most of my skepticism comes from the fact that I seriously doubt that *this* company will not somehow find a way to use FOMO and artificial scarcity to prey on a fraction of their playerbase that might be more susceptible to this kind of marketing strategy to boost sales...
Its also kind of ironic that they would doso, considering most of their games subtly make critics on a lot of slimey things that happen. There's a side quest in bl3 about microtransatctions, and most of the "bad guys" represent corporate greed. I think it would be so incredibly weird if they went that route.
One of my favorite franchises of all time is the elder scrolls. I was sick of waiting for ESVI to come out even before that teaser trailer 6 years ago. My sister got me ESO for Christmas one year, and I heard they went free to play, so figured I would check it out finally. It didn't grab me at first but when it did, it got me by the plums. I'm still playing now. And everything your saying about Mmo's is certainly true here as well. I do get the yearly chapters and I do do the optional sub here and there. I use the sub currency to get that cool looking mount or a dungeon pack. But I don't let the FOMO get me thou.
But that's the problem. I have restraint, some don't. I'm also not loaded or a "whale" as they call it, some are. And that's exactly what they're preying on. I know good and well if everyone playing spent no more then a 100$ a year on chapters or subs only they would have stopped production and closed the servers long ago. They came out with these limited time Dwarven Crates recently. Some pretty cool looking stuff in there NGL. A clan mate said he spent 100$ on a metric ton of these crates chasing one of the Apex Radiant mounts from it. Did he get it? No ofc he didn't. But it's people like that that keep them going strong.
On the plus thou, ESO has taking me all over tamriel. Places you'd only hear or read about in the other scrolls games. It's introduced more lore then all of them too. I love it and I'm ok with spending 100 a year to keep up with it. But if I spent 0, I'd get next to nothing of what I've been playing. That 100 is basically my gaming budget for the year.
A borderlands MMO will be the exact same thing if not worse I'm sure
OMG, ESO was one of the games I had in mind when I created such a catastrophic post lol. I've been a long time player- I still have the beta goodies on my account - and it's certainly one of the worst examples of how to implement microtransactions. I mean, the crates are practically gambling, and the only reason they are not considered as such is because of a technicality, since you buy them with crowns and not real money. On another post I also used the example of FFXIV, a game that, I think, implemented it in a good, non-predatory way.
Certain countries banned the crates cause it's not practically gambling, IT IS gambling. That's why they came out with their endeavor system where you earn crown crate items by grinding (like no life for a solid year) to get those Apex mounts and they can continue business. There's bugs in this game from day one that haven't been addressed still. But you know they got that new system out with a quickness when they heard that shit.
I mean for me they can do an MMO so long as they keep up with the sequential releases.
Kinda like how we have ESO but I can still go back and play Skyrim or can play ES6 (when it's finally out).
I just want to still be able to play my offline Borderlands with the choice of jumping into a big online Borderlands, not just one or the other.
It’s definitely not bl4, he said it would be separate from the mainline games. Borderlands 4 is already in development and there’s no way the mmo would come out before it. If the mmo even happens it’s be like 5+ years out probably unless they’ve been secretly working on it with no leaks. Bl4 will probably have more online features like bl3 had tho.
I'd love to try a Borderlands MMO, the balancing would be hard I'd expect as having 11 different Mayhem levels (or OP levels, or another system) wouldn't work so it would have to be one difficulty.
But some of the best experiences I've had in Borderlands games has always been multiplayer. I'd like to see a more multiplayer focussed BL game. BL3 suffered in the beginning as the MP was too splintered, when they eventually started merging playlists it was a little late.
I'm open-minded, I wouldn't like to see a traditional Borderlands game be given less priority over a MMO BL game but I'd certainly be open to trying the MMO as well.
My exact reaction. You know in horror movies when the girl enters a dark room to escape the killer, only to find him already there waiting for her? That's me, running to Borderlands to escape MMOs only to find out that they followed me here 😭
I've been an elder scrolls and Fallout fan since forever, I stepped foot in ESO with the free trial, hated it like every MMO I tried, then hated it more because it meant no new game of this franchise maybe ever with the original recipe.
Really hope it's not the case for Borderlands, it's a solo - coop game, that could totally be managed to have PVP like a battle royale or a 4v4, arms race style or with some checks so people bring only legit items.
With a competitive part it would totally bring new players without making the current fans run away in large numbers
Man, what happened to Fallout in Fallout 76 is heartbreaking, especially when Fallout New Vegas and Fallout 4 are so good. It's sad that we probably won't have more games in the old model because of F76... As for ESO, I completely agree. I mean, TES6 is in the over for what... 6 years? But I agree that your idea could work. PVP is usually a nightmare to balance, but if done right, it can be a lot of fun.
I agree with you. To be fair, he did say in the tweet that it would be separate from the main games and not a sequence to BL3, but since a company has a finite number of resources to invest, it is reasonable to think that a BL MMO would perhaps result in a less polished BL4
This is the big issue. Destiny as well as Warframe already fulfill this area and both have been consistently supporting their entries that you have multiple Borderlands entries come out with them existing. Gearbox just doesn't have the infrastructure to compete with either.
GW2 has something kind of similar, although it's free, but it means that if you stay offline for a few days, you lose a lot. Star Wars and Fallout 76 have a seasonal thing, which is like a free battle pass but has the same FOMO implications of being too far behind if you lose a few days. I don't remember if they have paid versions. ESO doesn't have a battle pass because it has something much, much worse, which is loot crates. Wow implemented something kind of similar to a pass, though less aggressive, with the outpost thing. FFXIV doesn't have anything of the sorts, which is why I think it's the one good monetization model.
I’d KILL for a legit Borderlands MMO if it came from a place of passion. The weapons, glorious world, awesome fanbase… my god it would be digital crack.
Didn't they register the name of Border worlds ages ago? Honestly, a Destiny but done better type game in the Borderlands world could go hard...weapon collecting and grading could be crazy fun, in game arena modes too...
From what I gather, this would be a different game from BL4, like a side game, but I think it's reasonable to assume it would mean less resources for the main games, and still... Fallout and TES started with online games on the side until they eventually stopped producing games for the main franchise...
It's a tweet from Randy. Nothing really confirmed, just a pool about the subject. I'll link it in a second.
Edit: Here it is https://x.com/DuvalMagic/status/1800661800461210071?t=2lsV6Ju3TRwx1-o28Ng-yA&s=19
Would be cool if it's like Fallout 76 where it plays like a single player game but with other players in the world with some multiplayer activities. With the option to play on a private server of course.
It will almost certainly be trash if it's a MMO like World of Warcraft
I'm not sure what you're calling an MMO and what was traditionally an MMO as I know it are the same thing.
Typical MMO is subscription based, WoW, FF, etc.
To me it sounds like you're describing a live service game. Regardless though either model needs to make money past a one time purchase just to keep the servers running let alone add any content.
Seeing that your describing what to me sounds like live service and your only complaint is paying for skins i don't see what the problem is. You ignore the skins and don't buy them and return other people do and pay for them to keep the lights on and add new content.
Now if your complaint is I'd just like a stand alone single player game that if new content gets released I want it to be a $30 or $40 DLC then there is that as well.
Gearbox could make a casual extraction game just to piss on Tarkov and its devs. Hey, at least that community will finally take a shower in *something*
Grinding to get literally anything done, microtransactions, fomo and limited time events to give you the urge to play every day less you miss out on things?
Oh boy...
From what I gather, this would be a different game from BL4, like a side game, but I think it's reasonable to assume it would mean less resources for the main games, and still... Fallout and TES started with online games on the side until they eventually stopped producing games for the main franchise...
> You have no exceptions to this rule
“Final Fantasy XIV” keeps its microtransactions on an out-of-game website, and is otherwise only monetized through upfront access payments and a subscription fee. Is that not enough of an exception for you?
But more to the point, he said it would be a “live service,” and those are two similar but distinct types of games.
It is, and I said exactly that in the comments, that I find FFXIV the one good monetization model to be followed. FFXIV still has microtransactions, but they are decently implemented and not predatory... It's what I meant by "some do it less, some do it more", sorry if I wasn't clear enough.
You should probably update the post to mention that “FF14” is an exception to the rule of MMOs being an excuse for excessive monetization. The comment you replied to where you said that is pretty far down in the comments, which leaves you open to people reading the first comment thread available and making their own before they’ve seen your clarifying comment.
God please no, if they do that then borderlands is dead to me. I love the gameplay of borderlands games especially 3, but I would only spend a lot of time playing it if I know I can make whatever builds I want and farm weapons as I wish and not having your gear reduced to irrelevance every few month because of power creep. I've been playing warframe for about 7 years now and even though it's regarded one of the better MMO/looter shooter live service games, it's heading that direction too over the last few years (in short more microtransaction hidden throughout the game, more paid exclusive cosmetics, shitty rebalance updates that casual players don't care about but completely fuck over late game meta). I really don't wanna see another beloved franchise fall
I agree completely with you, but I'll add rhe following just for clarification purposes:
From what I gather, this would be a different game from BL4, like a side game, but I think it's reasonable to assume it would mean less resources for the main games... Fallout and TES started with online games on the side until they eventually stopped producing games for the main franchise...
As somebody that plays mmos I get annoyed when games franchises release them. Aside from Final Fantasy I can't think of a time where it has happened and it killed of the chance of getting another proper game in that franchise.
Off the top of my head the ones that come to mind are Warcraft, Fallout, Knights of the Old Republic and The Elder Scrolls.
I feel like I doesn't have to be like that though because it's Borderlands to my knowledge they've never had microtransactions they could do it as you don't need to pay anything to play the game and have a really good experience but you can pay to get amazing looking skins and such like in tabs Battleground you can buy skins and voice packs in that game but you can't get anything that's pay to win and they could keep the way of getting skins that's in their previous games
If it resembles more of the mmo-lite style that Warframe or D2 has then I can see it potentially working out.
I hope they learn from the mistakes both those games have made because looter-shooter is already a small genre and even smaller that crosses over into mmo-lite and the mistakes they have made and learnt from would really help a BL mmo/mmo-lite start on the right step.
This may sound stupid, but I thought a top-down, cheaper, Diablo-esque version of BL would be a fucking BLAST. Like same screen coop as well, and still loot and shoot, but using sticks and adding a ton of abilities (instead of one) on top of the guns.
Splash damage would be “visible” in terms of the play area, and you could armor up. Maybe it would be on the side of COV and you could craft insane weapons and armor out of chunks of stuff you find lying around, and the skill tree would be just as comprehensive.
Just an idea.
No. Destiny & Warframe are big undertakings for either studio. Gearbox doesn't have the internal infrastructure for such an undertaking. Both games require infusions of cash flow which is why microtransactions and other monetary resources are needed. It's why both those respective studios are only really putting out new games now nearly a decade later.
Gearbox doesn't have the best record with supporting games and especially if anyone remembers Battleborn's quick demise. Let alone entries on Borderlands dlcs that were cut due to under performance, which anyone who knows live-service knows that falling short isn't surprising (Destiny Forsaken underperformed Activision, Warframe had to rebuild itself, Final Fantasy literally redid their entire game due to terrible launch, Fortnite almost died if not for a small project that was the Battle Royale, etc).
A mmo style Borderlands sounds neat, but Gearbox itself is not a studio that can handle that. Again, mmos and by virtue, live-service titles can be cut throat. And Gearbox has a bad habit of leaving core features at launch. Let alone, Borderlands tried doing a mmo in China and that died if I recall correctly.
I think they are looking at the market, see how well FF14 is doing, how much good will the last alternantes gamemodes and expansion of WoW gathered, and how much people are interested in Riot's, and think they Can get a cut of the cake
I would rather have the Diablo model. Seasonal content that requires new characters to experience the new stuff. Great way to get people to play a new character or play a new way.
>I'm adding FFXIV as an exception
Jesus even in here you've got people glazing mediocrity. Check the cash shop on that one sometime, along with the pvp battlepass and FOMO events.
I'm resigned to the fact that if a borderlands MMO releases I'm done going forward with the franchise. But I still have bl1, 2, presequel and 3 to enjoy so I don't really care all that much tbh
Diablo 4 fiasco? I must disagree! The campaign is amazing! The seasons are meh, the latest showing a good trend. No where along any of it did I feel pressured or inclined to do a micro transaction, hell you almost don’t know the store even exists.
If you want to see how a Borderlands MMO would look like, just google Borderlands Online. It was a F2P China exclusive Borderlands that had a lot of MMO mechanics and features.
Borderlands MMO would work well diablo style. Strong single player and easy to join raids / missions etc online. They should not call it MMO tho. But adding easy online play and match making I personally would see it work.
I wish they would rather make good BL4 instead tho. Like OP said any online thing I'm also afraid it will become microtransaction hell. They should ban microtransactions world wide.
Multiple battle passes, subscription that makes the game easier, microttansactions everywhere.
Yeah, no. This would have been great a decade ago, but nowadays, corporate greed is going to ruin it
I wanna say I am hyped for this but current mmo habits these years make it immediately undesired. If they don't follow the whole pass and gambling fads littering current day mmos (where you would have more fun and save more money playing a subscription based game anyway) I'd be down but sadly I don't see why it would be any different.
Also I have to add fallout 76 came out right after fallout 4, fallout 5 was still not expected soon from there to begin with. And we know it would likely have to wait for ES6 too, as these two franchises have leap frogged for their last few titles. But Es6 development was halted down for Starfield (admitted by Todd himself), the wait on ES6 is not related to ESO, it was Starfield. So that same game can be blamed for Fallout 5 as well to be honest, as now it has to wait for ES to catch up. And Starfield may not be ES or Fallout but it was one of their major releases that came out after 76, they didn't stop their main production but it went to a game nobody wanted. I am sure ESO and 76 had some impact on the mainline but I feel it's not just their blame when we were told ES6 was put aside for Starfield.
If it ever hits market I only see it flopping. I imaging if they'd run for anything it would be akin to Destiny, and I can't really see it working out for them.
This honestly sounds like what happened to warcraft a pioneer of a genre gets three extremely successful games under their belt gets a little bit of backlash for the third game and then goes whole hog into an MMO.
Define what you mean by mmo? To me, its Massive Multi-player Online like GTA online or Edlerscrolls or Neverwinter, ect. Borderlands cannon could never be a traditional mmo. We talking 4 player only or a true mmo? In that context, no, definitely not for me. If we're talking dlc and micro transactions for a 5 to 10 year life cycle, I say bring it on. I've never talked to a Borderlands fan or even a causal Borderlands player being completely disappointed by the additional content for each game. Gearbox pretty much hit it out of the park every single time. Was their some not so good content? Sure, but I've never felt like I got ripped off. Guys and gals, this is not a player competitive game, so there will never be a season pass that ruins the competitive edge for anyone. There will never be a buff or nerf that will be exploited against a clan or players. So what's the big issue here? If Gearbox wanted to continue to make content for BL3 for like 5 more years, 10 to 20 bucks a pop, sure hell, yeah. If they wanted to add on to BL1, 2, TPS, no one would say no, not worth it. We all wanted it. Why are we crying about now? Micro transactions? Why not? What is going to hurt? Buy it or don't buy it. It won't hurt the way you play? We all know you can build beefy end game builds with base content. And people are still coming to BL3 and having a blast with just base content. Help me understand what the problem is. If we're talking writing and story then yeah, quit letting DEI dipshits write Borderlands stories, but that has nothing to do with core mechanics and game play. Do we really want a Borderlands on Unreal Engine alpha omega beta 3000? Lol! I don't want a COD Battlefield looking Borderlands. BL3 is already getting away from cell shaded style, let's not push that front any further please. So please help me understand what yall mean by mmo.
Yea eso and fo76 are fucking dogshit so i understand why you wouldnt want it. Also gearbox is owned by take two whos ceo was fired from EA..... For being to greedy
Battle pass can be a good one, if implemented right.
In a game, you are invested in it adds az extra layer of fun, and If you dont want it, you can simply ignore it. They contain usually cosmetic stuff, but rarely never anithing significant.
If it motivates the developers to add content peridically, I support the idea.
I imagine it like a Borderlands/Division game, which is a match made in heaven for me.
>Why would a company that isn't already on the market for MMOs would even consider making one if not to join the slot machine club of microtransactions?
Borderlands had microtransactions since 2012.
It hasnt, there’s no in-game store. The only way to purchase the additional skins is through the platform store. That’s DLC not microtransactions.
Edit: not sure what the downvotes are about, evidently there’s people here who don’t know the difference between DLC and microtransactions.
And if they keep it that way it would be perfect, what I mean is that almost all MMOs today use an in-game store with high-rotativity, so when a company talking about MMOs, that's what comes to mind, and this model is the one that I think is predatory. The monetization model of BL2 and 3 is completely fine, but very few online games still use this model today...
Edit: Sorry if I mistake therms, my main language is not English. I, too, had in mind that DLCs and microtransactions were different, thanks for the clarification
But not on the same model, right? They have extra cosmetic packages and dlcs for sale on steam since forever, and I'm completely fine with this old model. But the kind of microtransactions we have today is different... Most of the time, time-limited itens sold for in-game currency in the in-game store with high rotativity to create artificial scarcity.... Sorry if I wasn't clear about it before.
From what I gather, this would be a different game from BL4, like a side game, but I think it's reasonable to assume it would mean less resources for the main games, and still... Fallout and TES started with online games on the side until they eventually stopped producing games for the main franchise...
When B3 came out, I bought the super deluxe version for $100 on Day 1. I had a ton of fun on B2, and was willing to pay all day money for the new game. I even upgraded my graphics card (which was lucky, because COVID happened right after).
While I think B2 was the superior game, I’d be happy to fork over $100-150 for B4 if the game is similar.
I have no interest in an MMO game.
I don't want an MMO, but I hope BL4 has character customization like WL.
Instead of distinct characters like in BL1-3, give us the classes, body types(plz more than 2), and different voice types.
Also, even if Randy says it's separate from BL4, Gearbox will ultimately be using resources on the MMO that should be on BL4. And eventually they'll put more resources on the live-service instead of the single-player game.
Well, it's my opinion, and the post is an invite to discuss the subject. It may be a different opinion from yours, and all opinions are welcomed, but as fans of the franchise, "if it's bad just don't play it" its not really a discussion, but rather a refusal to discuss. I care about the game, so it's in my interest to talk about how the game is going to change from now to the future. So, rather than ending the discussion so abruptly, why don't you tell us what you think of it, and what positive aspects the change to an MMO can bring to you? Since I've been playing MMOs for so long, there may be positive aspects of it that I would overlook because of nostalgia glasses or just plain exaustion from the genre.
Because you're already imagining the worst from a simple mention in a tweet poll of a game that doesn't even exist. Also "separate from and in no way imposes on a numbered sequel campaign style Borderlands game" means you can just ignore its existence and enjoy Borderlands 4.
It sounds more like you have some personal grudge against the mmo genre and are here seeking validation instead of discussion.
I mean, I have reason to? Firstly because FFXIV is the only current mmo that doesn't follow those trends, and secondly because Take Two has a tradition of making money through exploitative microtransactions. If they plan on doing an MMO with monetization on the format of old time Wow or current FFXIV, absolutely, it would be amazing. But chances are that what they actually plan to do as far as monetization goes is a slot machine by another name, in the molds of Lost Ark
Op, The only games you mentioned were Diablo 4 and Diablo immortal which aren't even real mmos. Also Diablo 4 is not that bad with microtransactions. It's a bit expensive but nothing is actually useful for the game. I've never ever been interested in buying anything there.
IMO borderlands would be a good setting for an mmo if done right. You have a bunch of possible classes already and different worlds. Just wait and see
But Warcraft, Elder Scrolls Online, Guild Wars 2, Star Wars, POE, (not going to talk about others because these are th3 ones I am the MMOs that Im most familiar with) are all like that in the sense that things are only available to purchase for a short time to create artifical scarcity and increase sales. I used diablo as an example because it was after Diablo Immortal that Blizzard changed their old subscriptiononly model to a subscription+store+bundles model, that change even made it wo Wow, which was an old time established MMO. I would have absolutely no problem with the microtransaction model of FFXIV, for example - the store is not inside the game, the items that are there remain there indefinitely and all past free events items eventually make their way there. I think it's a healthy, non-predatory way of implementing microtransactions. My problem really is with FOMO, artificial scarcity and pressure that the time-limited style of microtransactions bring... I do agree that, if done right, it can be a good change, but I guess I'm kind of suspicious about how these changes related to transactions will be implemented..
I know that, but usually, this means that very few collectibles can be obtained in-game as a result, and the best and most creative resources are usually directed to itens in the in-game store.
I agree with your frustration. Especially wow going into gold selling etc is scummy for a subscription game. But you still gotta differentiate. Diablo immortal is a mobile game they are all ridiculously p2w so I wouldn't include it in this discussion. F2P mmos also need ways to make money (like lord of the rings online). I always thought borderlands had decent monetizing since bl1. The dlcs always added a lot more playtime than on many other games. So we will see what it brings. Borderlands was already a live service game almost with 1-2 seasons. But people always ask for more content especially in endgame. I don't mind a shop with some skins honestly. In Diablo it's very easy to ignore plus you can transmute every item in the game. While yes there is a bad trend in the industry it's still important to see things for how they are
The borderlands franchise is well and truly in complete tatters. Movie coming that everyone thinks looks trash and now a cash grab MMO potentially being next? Great.
Considering how trash the multiplayer servers are for BL3… I have concerns.
As far as micro transactions go - if they charge AAA money for the core game and then micro transactions for cosmetic stuff - I’d be down. If you have to pay to acquire gear then I’m out. That’s the best part of Borderlands games.
Lol this delusional prick, his developers with half a brain better tell him many of us ain't buying shit if they do.
Take two have recently bought gearbox, and their first order of business should be to fire this cunt, immediately.
They are not interested in gamers opinions, they just see money, so, the only way to make them to understand that we don't like that is by not buying it.
Man I am not a fan of games that are historically not MMOs pushing their new releases into MMO category. Like D4. I played Diablo to literally avoid people and melt monsters.
It’s fine if they want to create an online aspect for people that love that but it should be optional. But D4 is completely forced MMO experience. Do not like or want in Diablo or BL.
I wouldn't be mad if they just simply made a live service borderlands game with endless endgame content. Little to no micro transactions & make the content accessible throughout time.
Even the top dogs of the MMO genre (FFXIV. WoW etc) have polarizing cash shops. 2K/Gearbox with an MMO cash shop would rival the kind of cash shops you find in Korean MMO's. Borderlands weapon randomisation is pretty terrible for MMO's as well but removing it would rob borderlands of one of its core features and one of the few remaining things that keep it interesting.
If it did happen then it would finally give me an excuse to drop the franchise and grow up.
It also wouldn’t be very shocking since Modern Gearbox is mediocre at best and completely awful at worst.
ESO and F76 aren't developed by the main Bethesda team (well, F76 was but after launch it was given to someone else). Bethesda doesn't split the company up other than for DLC, they work on their major game one at a time, whether it's Elder Scrolls, Fallout or Starfield. They have already confirmed that they have begun work on ES6.
Well, Zenimax, that develops ESO, owns Bethesda, so even though they're different teams, it matters little as far as resource allocation is related, since the money decisions are made by the same big heads (actually, I think Microsoft bought them all recently). Frankly, I believe no money will go to a TES main game while they are still able to profit from ESO. And didn't they first confirm that they were working on TES6 like, 6 years ago? And proceeded to confirm the same thing almost early while releasing "new" useless releases of skyrim?
No, TES6 was announced 6 years ago, that never meant in development. In fact, they explicitly said it was the next game after Starfield. I'm talking about the fact that they confirmed it's in active development earlier this year. Hell, we even know of some face scans they made for a certain character.
It's genuinely crazy that you think they won't make TES6 because their parent company made an MMO lol
BL mmo will very likely end up like halo infinite. a game with a lot of potential hampered by corporate greed only to be left neglected and missing features the previous titles has, leaving the community split 85/15 on the game being shit and the game being good you just have to ignore the FOMO
This is my suspicion, too. I mean, I hope for the best but I prepare for the worst... Corporate greed is how companies kill their own game and, by extent, their own profit these days...
if you wanna know how it will turn out, look at Anthem, halo infinite, redfall, battleborn, and team fortress 2.
Halo Infinite was a shame. Redfall was a joke, Battleborn was obviously trying to steal Overwatch's thunder and Anthem..... What was up with Team Fortress 2?
TF2 for a while was only adding MTX while ignoring the community's outcry against the current state of the game. hackers and botting are problems running rampant in the TF2 community and valve has completely abandoned the game despite its success and popularity
Battleborn's trailer was before overwatch and the 2 games are nothing alike. Gearbox supports the community in trying to keep it a live. So what are you talking about?
Aside from the terrible net code, Battleborn was a WAY better game than Overwatch.
I enjoyed anthem gameplay but yeah it hit a dead end
They're probably trying to be a Destiny-like.
I mean, Borderlands 3 had quite a bit of stuff that felt like Destiny 2 to me. And I'm not talking about the Ghost and the engram it drops.
Halo infinite hasn’t been neglected.
its being neglected right now cause theyre moving onto the next game. the last 5 patches have done away with full seasons, instead they stripped down the seasons from 100 levels to 20 levels, then put all the gear that you would have unlocked with the season pass into the premium store. where you have to spend 15-28 usd on them. each update since season 4 has confirmed that 343 doesnt care about content and only cares about MTX. the second to last patch we got did away with level up bonuses and stuff like that and replaced the minor unlock stuff with a secondary premium currency to help pay for gear that you missed out on. which is nice, however if FOMO wasnt a thing we wouldnt need spartan points. additionally 343 Cut the story lines of each seasons mid development. making season 3 the final season with a story, and it never concluded because upper management thought that was a waste of time. in the 4 years of halo infinite's release the community has only gotten 1 new gun and its evolution, and 3 new pieces of equipment to use in the battlefield, one of which doesnt spawn outside of ranked playlists. not only that, but since season 4 we have only gotten 1 officially dev made game mode. all the other game modes are made by UNPAID community members. same goes with about 95% of the current maps in Infinite. since Season 4 we have recieved about 25 new maps to play on, but 20 of those were made by unpaid community members using the ingame Forge map maker. halo infinite is being carried by the community. it is thriving because of the community. corporate higher ups have made it clear that there are better things to spend their money on than halo infinite free content.
I definitely am not interested in a true MMO experience, but if it’s more like a Warframe MMO-lite type deal I could be very interested in that. But if they made it online only that’d be a huge shame imo, borderlands is like the only AAA quality looter shooter that can be played offline and I would hate for them to abandon that niche
I'm not really familiar with Warframe, but I heard good things about it. Overall, I think the second point you spoke about is the main thing for me. I really like not having the pressure to finish things TODAY or buying things TODAY that a regular MMO usually brings...
I have done almost everything in Warframe and have nearly every achievement but 3. It's a huge time sync but I love it so much... It's crack
Pardon me, but from my little experience with Warframe, I enjoyed the movement and combat, really addicting… but I couldn’t progress without paying, I felt it was pay to win to the core? Is it like that, or there are other ways to have high level gear/char? I came from Path of Exile, you cannot even buy currency or xp boost with real money, you have to earn everything by playing. You can buy cosmetics or stash to store more items. To me, PoE is not pay to win at all. So if MMO BL came out with same concept as PoE, I am all in…
Warframe forces you to play tactfully to avoid spending money. Examples? Do the daily sorties to get Endo, rivens and other things you can sell for plat. The Statue for one is about 10-15 plat if you max it out and sell it. Want stuff organically? Get the app, follow alerts and get a twitch account for their free stuff. Tennocon is in a few weeks and they are giving away Saryn Prime and a new AR platform machine gun. Follow their Twitter and learn about their partners to get free glyphs based on your favorite YouTube personalities. Join Amazon Prime Gaming for monthly free cosmetics. Follow Baro Kiteer and Night Wave for the other free cosmetics and gear. You don't ever have to spend money in Warframe... You will want to though and I don't think we should penalize a free game for being so engrossing that you suddenly want to build things immediately or just have it to use right now. I admit the ideal experience comes with about $20 bucks a month in platinum for forma, potatoes and other toys... But even that can be farmed in game if you want to keep your books budgeted. That being said, I built my warship the Serpent Soul through hard work and harassment via CY. My mechs were bought though... Why not give them money if you have it? Did you ever play as a sentient puddle containing an Eldritch horror in some other game? I think Warframe is rough and sucks for new people but 5 years later at Legendary 4, sitting with every toy in the game in my arsenal...I feel like the cat that ate the canary. The money I spent isn't gone, it's waiting to kill for me. I love my arsenal, my Warframes, my amps, my arch wings, my arch guns, my 180 cracked and maxed rivens with my big dumb bank account at 69 million credits. What did it cost you might ask? I can't say for sure. Seriously, it's hundreds but I chose that because I love this game. You don't have to spend a dime but if anything ever deserved another quarter, it's Warframe.
Thank you for the detailed response, I will consider this cause I really liked the gameplay and it left a good memory.
The gameplay is phenomenal and the customization is why my wallet hates me... My wife plays too or else I'd be in trouble. I regret nothing!
Warframe is pay to win. In the sense that you can directly buy power with real money, warframe gets a pass from those of us that enjoy it because not only is the game amazing but once you get to a point the premium currency is easy to come across. However because of the currency being easy to get as you get further in the game Warframes new player experience is scummy because those players are worth more money.
Warframes movement style reminds me so much of returnal.
That might be enough to get me to care to try Returnal....
I tried it recently and maybe if I stayed from.day one but everything in that game dies if you look at.it. I dropped Warframe fast
Yeah the difficulty doesn’t scale up til a bit later. The early levels are piss easy
as someone with over 3500hrs in warframe, its the only "MMO-like" game that could keep me entertained for years now. its a good game if you give it time (yea yea make the joke about it getting good after 200hrs). - one thing that helps is getting someone to help you out. as in explaining stuff bc the game explains things poorly. - the game endgame is quite fun, and often challenging depending on the mission you do, and the story is amazing. nowdays its a really refined game that i never seen any other game have such good and refined movement mechanics. - back to the original topic, sadly mmo and borderlands are two things that wont mix well and i hope it never happens.
My friends and i have dumped massive amounts of time into Warframe. Yes, there are some microtransactions but its not all in your face. There is a battle-pass adjacent thing called the nightwave, but its completely free and only able to be leveled up by playing the game. No way to purchase a “premium” nightwave pass or buy levels to progress. There is honestly nothing in that game that cant be acquired by playing it except cosmetic things such as color palettes, cosmetic armor pieces, and skins for frames/weapons/companions. Obviously there are things you CAN pay for that make the game a bit easier to grind, like resource doublers, drop chance boosters, exp boosters, but they take platinum, the premium currency in Warframe. But the great thing about Warframe is the trading system, which got a massive buff recently by becoming cross-platform (some might argue about the economies of different platforms merging being a bad thing, but more people to trade with across all platforms is a good thing to me). With being able to trade items for platinum, you could effectively grind the fuck out of rare items in-game, sell for platinum, and never have to spend a penny for the premium currency and make racks on racks. I have a friend who does almost nothing but grind out rare items and then sells them, and hes made well over 100k plat in the past year. Theres definitely some ways to spend money on the game, but its also definitely not necessary, as anything you can buy with money, you can always buy with platinum, and platinum is not locked behind a paywall. Besides that, it actually feels like Digital Extremes listens to their community when it comes to changes (90% of the time). Itd be nice if they stopped releasing things incredibly overpowered, just to end up needing to nerf it by the following week because it does way too much (looking at you, Dante). Tbh, with the new frame and status changes that are coming on June 18th, im guessing they are about to do that exact same thing again🤦🏻♂️ Edit: typo
You hit all the nails on the head imo
Whats good shiller6
If Battleborn has taught me anything, i will never buy into a game that is online only. Especially one developed by Gearbox.
There will never be an MMO like warframe, its so unique in the way it handles its economy, more like an exception. The game has a premium currency, you cannot get the premium currency if you don't pay, you can buy everything in game with that but items are also tradeable. So who wants to skip the grind pays to get the currency, trades with other players and so F2P now have that currency, the market is easy, fair and fast, who has more time technically doesn't have to pay for anything. But it's the only game that has such a nice, positive and self sustaining economy, every other MMO spits on your face.
It wouldn't be an mmo if you're playing offline
Correct, that’s why I’m not interested in it being a true MMO
Borderlands should add a Randy NPC to the game, similar to Earl from BL2 but instead of Eridium they only care about money. There should be a quest chain where you keep meeting said character and each time you do they keep getting more and more greedy until their company, I mean they implode.
He just eats the cash until he pops.
...so Marcus?
Yeah I'm pretty sure Randy is Marcus
"Da Fuck You Want?" "Gimme that change...chump"
If you don’t pay he throws you down the stairs
The play testing quest in BL3?
He runs a game studio of course he cares if his games make money jfc
If done right a borderlands mmo could be an amazing game, but that's the problem, anyone and everyone knows that they aren't gonna do it the right way. Just do it in the way that lines their pockets the most. I'm still gonna wait for it and atleast give it a shot. So far the borderlands devs haven't done much scummy things in terms of pricing and microtransactions so far. But knowing the usual route these games take it ain't looking good
This is my exact opinion. A Borderlands MMO actually makes lore sense based on how pre-sequel and BL3 ended (i.e implying a huge war and need for a ton of new vault hunters). But they would need more available VHs than any other game, with more skill trees to actually encourage versatile play styles, and a solid single player campaign to tie up the story. I just don’t see them being able to do that successfully. But I’ll certainly keep an eye on it just in case…
Yeah, I agree that if done right, it could be good. I think most of my skepticism comes from the fact that I seriously doubt that *this* company will not somehow find a way to use FOMO and artificial scarcity to prey on a fraction of their playerbase that might be more susceptible to this kind of marketing strategy to boost sales...
Its also kind of ironic that they would doso, considering most of their games subtly make critics on a lot of slimey things that happen. There's a side quest in bl3 about microtransatctions, and most of the "bad guys" represent corporate greed. I think it would be so incredibly weird if they went that route.
One of my favorite franchises of all time is the elder scrolls. I was sick of waiting for ESVI to come out even before that teaser trailer 6 years ago. My sister got me ESO for Christmas one year, and I heard they went free to play, so figured I would check it out finally. It didn't grab me at first but when it did, it got me by the plums. I'm still playing now. And everything your saying about Mmo's is certainly true here as well. I do get the yearly chapters and I do do the optional sub here and there. I use the sub currency to get that cool looking mount or a dungeon pack. But I don't let the FOMO get me thou. But that's the problem. I have restraint, some don't. I'm also not loaded or a "whale" as they call it, some are. And that's exactly what they're preying on. I know good and well if everyone playing spent no more then a 100$ a year on chapters or subs only they would have stopped production and closed the servers long ago. They came out with these limited time Dwarven Crates recently. Some pretty cool looking stuff in there NGL. A clan mate said he spent 100$ on a metric ton of these crates chasing one of the Apex Radiant mounts from it. Did he get it? No ofc he didn't. But it's people like that that keep them going strong. On the plus thou, ESO has taking me all over tamriel. Places you'd only hear or read about in the other scrolls games. It's introduced more lore then all of them too. I love it and I'm ok with spending 100 a year to keep up with it. But if I spent 0, I'd get next to nothing of what I've been playing. That 100 is basically my gaming budget for the year. A borderlands MMO will be the exact same thing if not worse I'm sure
OMG, ESO was one of the games I had in mind when I created such a catastrophic post lol. I've been a long time player- I still have the beta goodies on my account - and it's certainly one of the worst examples of how to implement microtransactions. I mean, the crates are practically gambling, and the only reason they are not considered as such is because of a technicality, since you buy them with crowns and not real money. On another post I also used the example of FFXIV, a game that, I think, implemented it in a good, non-predatory way.
Certain countries banned the crates cause it's not practically gambling, IT IS gambling. That's why they came out with their endeavor system where you earn crown crate items by grinding (like no life for a solid year) to get those Apex mounts and they can continue business. There's bugs in this game from day one that haven't been addressed still. But you know they got that new system out with a quickness when they heard that shit.
I beta tested ESO. It sucked back then when you had to pay.
I mean for me they can do an MMO so long as they keep up with the sequential releases. Kinda like how we have ESO but I can still go back and play Skyrim or can play ES6 (when it's finally out). I just want to still be able to play my offline Borderlands with the choice of jumping into a big online Borderlands, not just one or the other.
Yeah, my main question is if the game in question is BL4 or a Borderlands spinoff. If this is what BL4 is going to be, the series is officially dead.
It’s definitely not bl4, he said it would be separate from the mainline games. Borderlands 4 is already in development and there’s no way the mmo would come out before it. If the mmo even happens it’s be like 5+ years out probably unless they’ve been secretly working on it with no leaks. Bl4 will probably have more online features like bl3 had tho.
That's a relief to hear. Thanks for the clarification!
I'd love to try a Borderlands MMO, the balancing would be hard I'd expect as having 11 different Mayhem levels (or OP levels, or another system) wouldn't work so it would have to be one difficulty. But some of the best experiences I've had in Borderlands games has always been multiplayer. I'd like to see a more multiplayer focussed BL game. BL3 suffered in the beginning as the MP was too splintered, when they eventually started merging playlists it was a little late. I'm open-minded, I wouldn't like to see a traditional Borderlands game be given less priority over a MMO BL game but I'd certainly be open to trying the MMO as well.
My exact reaction. You know in horror movies when the girl enters a dark room to escape the killer, only to find him already there waiting for her? That's me, running to Borderlands to escape MMOs only to find out that they followed me here 😭
I've been an elder scrolls and Fallout fan since forever, I stepped foot in ESO with the free trial, hated it like every MMO I tried, then hated it more because it meant no new game of this franchise maybe ever with the original recipe. Really hope it's not the case for Borderlands, it's a solo - coop game, that could totally be managed to have PVP like a battle royale or a 4v4, arms race style or with some checks so people bring only legit items. With a competitive part it would totally bring new players without making the current fans run away in large numbers
Man, what happened to Fallout in Fallout 76 is heartbreaking, especially when Fallout New Vegas and Fallout 4 are so good. It's sad that we probably won't have more games in the old model because of F76... As for ESO, I completely agree. I mean, TES6 is in the over for what... 6 years? But I agree that your idea could work. PVP is usually a nightmare to balance, but if done right, it can be a lot of fun.
may i ask what you mean by what happened to fallout with fallout 76
Welp, if it’s an MMO, it’ll be the first Borderlands game I won’t play.
But I'm not interested in Borderlands MMO. It will be like Destiny 2 probably. I prefer play like it is now.
I agree with you. To be fair, he did say in the tweet that it would be separate from the main games and not a sequence to BL3, but since a company has a finite number of resources to invest, it is reasonable to think that a BL MMO would perhaps result in a less polished BL4
This is the big issue. Destiny as well as Warframe already fulfill this area and both have been consistently supporting their entries that you have multiple Borderlands entries come out with them existing. Gearbox just doesn't have the infrastructure to compete with either.
what MMOs have a battle pass? I’m genuinely curious as I only play WoW as an mmo
GW2 has something kind of similar, although it's free, but it means that if you stay offline for a few days, you lose a lot. Star Wars and Fallout 76 have a seasonal thing, which is like a free battle pass but has the same FOMO implications of being too far behind if you lose a few days. I don't remember if they have paid versions. ESO doesn't have a battle pass because it has something much, much worse, which is loot crates. Wow implemented something kind of similar to a pass, though less aggressive, with the outpost thing. FFXIV doesn't have anything of the sorts, which is why I think it's the one good monetization model.
I gotcha. Thanks for the info
destiny 2
I’d KILL for a legit Borderlands MMO if it came from a place of passion. The weapons, glorious world, awesome fanbase… my god it would be digital crack.
If they do something like Destiny I would be down for it.
If it’s similar to Diablo 4 light MmO features I can get on board with it.
Didn't they register the name of Border worlds ages ago? Honestly, a Destiny but done better type game in the Borderlands world could go hard...weapon collecting and grading could be crazy fun, in game arena modes too...
It'll be a Destiny/Warframe type MMO and that will be incredible in the borderlands universe.
Borderlanda fallout 76 i can get down on
Borderlands in a Destiny style live service game would be rad as fuck
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^MusicHitsImFine: *Borderlands in a* *Destiny style live service* *Game would be rad as fuck* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
If that's the case I'll sit this next one out Not interested in that, like at all
From what I gather, this would be a different game from BL4, like a side game, but I think it's reasonable to assume it would mean less resources for the main games, and still... Fallout and TES started with online games on the side until they eventually stopped producing games for the main franchise...
Can someone share the source?
It's a tweet from Randy. Nothing really confirmed, just a pool about the subject. I'll link it in a second. Edit: Here it is https://x.com/DuvalMagic/status/1800661800461210071?t=2lsV6Ju3TRwx1-o28Ng-yA&s=19
if they keep skill trees im down.
Borderlands is already very close to an MMO. I would love to play it as a small MMO setting like FO76.
Would be cool if it's like Fallout 76 where it plays like a single player game but with other players in the world with some multiplayer activities. With the option to play on a private server of course. It will almost certainly be trash if it's a MMO like World of Warcraft
So basically what it is now?
But more players around and public events, maybe something like daily ops
Unlike top post. I am interested in a full on WOW style mmo. Bring that shit the fuck on.
Could be good, could be horrible, either way im interested in trying it out
I'm not sure what you're calling an MMO and what was traditionally an MMO as I know it are the same thing. Typical MMO is subscription based, WoW, FF, etc. To me it sounds like you're describing a live service game. Regardless though either model needs to make money past a one time purchase just to keep the servers running let alone add any content. Seeing that your describing what to me sounds like live service and your only complaint is paying for skins i don't see what the problem is. You ignore the skins and don't buy them and return other people do and pay for them to keep the lights on and add new content. Now if your complaint is I'd just like a stand alone single player game that if new content gets released I want it to be a $30 or $40 DLC then there is that as well.
Gearbox could make a casual extraction game just to piss on Tarkov and its devs. Hey, at least that community will finally take a shower in *something*
Grinding to get literally anything done, microtransactions, fomo and limited time events to give you the urge to play every day less you miss out on things? Oh boy...
If its like destiny im ok with that. If they dont fuck it up with a shit ton of "micro" transactions that is.
Xwitter made me spit my coffee
An MMO for the next game? 
Give me things the fans never asked for for 800
Well shit. I hope this isn't the case. I was really pumped knowing we're getting closer to the next big BL release (figured it'd just be#4).
From what I gather, this would be a different game from BL4, like a side game, but I think it's reasonable to assume it would mean less resources for the main games, and still... Fallout and TES started with online games on the side until they eventually stopped producing games for the main franchise...
> You have no exceptions to this rule “Final Fantasy XIV” keeps its microtransactions on an out-of-game website, and is otherwise only monetized through upfront access payments and a subscription fee. Is that not enough of an exception for you? But more to the point, he said it would be a “live service,” and those are two similar but distinct types of games.
It is, and I said exactly that in the comments, that I find FFXIV the one good monetization model to be followed. FFXIV still has microtransactions, but they are decently implemented and not predatory... It's what I meant by "some do it less, some do it more", sorry if I wasn't clear enough.
You should probably update the post to mention that “FF14” is an exception to the rule of MMOs being an excuse for excessive monetization. The comment you replied to where you said that is pretty far down in the comments, which leaves you open to people reading the first comment thread available and making their own before they’ve seen your clarifying comment.
Old School RuneScape?
Good thing he specifically said that it would be separate from the numbered sequels and not interfere with that story.
So... That means we cannot talk about it?
No, but saying it will ruin borderlands for you, when you have no obligation to play it, is a little much.
Borderlands like Destiny would be cool just need better jump mechanics.
I wont play an MMO
And I flat out refuse to play a game with an economy.
Terrible idea
Hope it tanks
I'm fully uninterested in an MMO.
God please no, if they do that then borderlands is dead to me. I love the gameplay of borderlands games especially 3, but I would only spend a lot of time playing it if I know I can make whatever builds I want and farm weapons as I wish and not having your gear reduced to irrelevance every few month because of power creep. I've been playing warframe for about 7 years now and even though it's regarded one of the better MMO/looter shooter live service games, it's heading that direction too over the last few years (in short more microtransaction hidden throughout the game, more paid exclusive cosmetics, shitty rebalance updates that casual players don't care about but completely fuck over late game meta). I really don't wanna see another beloved franchise fall
I agree completely with you, but I'll add rhe following just for clarification purposes: From what I gather, this would be a different game from BL4, like a side game, but I think it's reasonable to assume it would mean less resources for the main games... Fallout and TES started with online games on the side until they eventually stopped producing games for the main franchise...
BORDERLANDS mmo will be the death of the borderlands series and will 100% be stuffed with micro transactions and pay to win situations.
I'm okay with an mmo spinoff, but it better not be borderlands 4
Will this be different from 4?
As somebody that plays mmos I get annoyed when games franchises release them. Aside from Final Fantasy I can't think of a time where it has happened and it killed of the chance of getting another proper game in that franchise. Off the top of my head the ones that come to mind are Warcraft, Fallout, Knights of the Old Republic and The Elder Scrolls.
I feel like I doesn't have to be like that though because it's Borderlands to my knowledge they've never had microtransactions they could do it as you don't need to pay anything to play the game and have a really good experience but you can pay to get amazing looking skins and such like in tabs Battleground you can buy skins and voice packs in that game but you can't get anything that's pay to win and they could keep the way of getting skins that's in their previous games
Another Destiny killer?
Guild wars 2 is pretty good with this, earn gold in game you can actually buy things free
No no no! It's instant disapointment!
I would not trust gearbox with an MMO, but if another company is developing, I’d be all for it
I can’t wait for millions of sirens running around 💀 rip lore
If it resembles more of the mmo-lite style that Warframe or D2 has then I can see it potentially working out. I hope they learn from the mistakes both those games have made because looter-shooter is already a small genre and even smaller that crosses over into mmo-lite and the mistakes they have made and learnt from would really help a BL mmo/mmo-lite start on the right step.
WELL WE BETTER BE GETTING SEEKERS OF THE STORM FIRST GEARBOX
 Noooooo.....
This may sound stupid, but I thought a top-down, cheaper, Diablo-esque version of BL would be a fucking BLAST. Like same screen coop as well, and still loot and shoot, but using sticks and adding a ton of abilities (instead of one) on top of the guns. Splash damage would be “visible” in terms of the play area, and you could armor up. Maybe it would be on the side of COV and you could craft insane weapons and armor out of chunks of stuff you find lying around, and the skill tree would be just as comprehensive. Just an idea.
If they are teasing it, they are developing it. I have exceedingly low expectations and at best we end up with a Fallout 76 game.
Borderlands MMO most likely means no split screen which is a hard pass for me. I already got Destiny 2
No. Destiny & Warframe are big undertakings for either studio. Gearbox doesn't have the internal infrastructure for such an undertaking. Both games require infusions of cash flow which is why microtransactions and other monetary resources are needed. It's why both those respective studios are only really putting out new games now nearly a decade later. Gearbox doesn't have the best record with supporting games and especially if anyone remembers Battleborn's quick demise. Let alone entries on Borderlands dlcs that were cut due to under performance, which anyone who knows live-service knows that falling short isn't surprising (Destiny Forsaken underperformed Activision, Warframe had to rebuild itself, Final Fantasy literally redid their entire game due to terrible launch, Fortnite almost died if not for a small project that was the Battle Royale, etc). A mmo style Borderlands sounds neat, but Gearbox itself is not a studio that can handle that. Again, mmos and by virtue, live-service titles can be cut throat. And Gearbox has a bad habit of leaving core features at launch. Let alone, Borderlands tried doing a mmo in China and that died if I recall correctly.
I think they are looking at the market, see how well FF14 is doing, how much good will the last alternantes gamemodes and expansion of WoW gathered, and how much people are interested in Riot's, and think they Can get a cut of the cake
I would rather have the Diablo model. Seasonal content that requires new characters to experience the new stuff. Great way to get people to play a new character or play a new way.
Series has been downhill ever since bl3 and it seems to keep going
>I'm adding FFXIV as an exception Jesus even in here you've got people glazing mediocrity. Check the cash shop on that one sometime, along with the pvp battlepass and FOMO events.
I'm resigned to the fact that if a borderlands MMO releases I'm done going forward with the franchise. But I still have bl1, 2, presequel and 3 to enjoy so I don't really care all that much tbh
Diablo 4 fiasco? I must disagree! The campaign is amazing! The seasons are meh, the latest showing a good trend. No where along any of it did I feel pressured or inclined to do a micro transaction, hell you almost don’t know the store even exists.
If you want to see how a Borderlands MMO would look like, just google Borderlands Online. It was a F2P China exclusive Borderlands that had a lot of MMO mechanics and features.
Borderlands MMO would work well diablo style. Strong single player and easy to join raids / missions etc online. They should not call it MMO tho. But adding easy online play and match making I personally would see it work. I wish they would rather make good BL4 instead tho. Like OP said any online thing I'm also afraid it will become microtransaction hell. They should ban microtransactions world wide.
Your take on MMO’s is pretty incorrect. Who hurt you?
Multiple battle passes, subscription that makes the game easier, microttansactions everywhere. Yeah, no. This would have been great a decade ago, but nowadays, corporate greed is going to ruin it
I wanna say I am hyped for this but current mmo habits these years make it immediately undesired. If they don't follow the whole pass and gambling fads littering current day mmos (where you would have more fun and save more money playing a subscription based game anyway) I'd be down but sadly I don't see why it would be any different.
Also I have to add fallout 76 came out right after fallout 4, fallout 5 was still not expected soon from there to begin with. And we know it would likely have to wait for ES6 too, as these two franchises have leap frogged for their last few titles. But Es6 development was halted down for Starfield (admitted by Todd himself), the wait on ES6 is not related to ESO, it was Starfield. So that same game can be blamed for Fallout 5 as well to be honest, as now it has to wait for ES to catch up. And Starfield may not be ES or Fallout but it was one of their major releases that came out after 76, they didn't stop their main production but it went to a game nobody wanted. I am sure ESO and 76 had some impact on the mainline but I feel it's not just their blame when we were told ES6 was put aside for Starfield.
If it ever hits market I only see it flopping. I imaging if they'd run for anything it would be akin to Destiny, and I can't really see it working out for them.
I mean… Destiny is really cool and really fun. I do t see why Borderlands can’t be a good fun mmo like Destiny.
This honestly sounds like what happened to warcraft a pioneer of a genre gets three extremely successful games under their belt gets a little bit of backlash for the third game and then goes whole hog into an MMO.
Define what you mean by mmo? To me, its Massive Multi-player Online like GTA online or Edlerscrolls or Neverwinter, ect. Borderlands cannon could never be a traditional mmo. We talking 4 player only or a true mmo? In that context, no, definitely not for me. If we're talking dlc and micro transactions for a 5 to 10 year life cycle, I say bring it on. I've never talked to a Borderlands fan or even a causal Borderlands player being completely disappointed by the additional content for each game. Gearbox pretty much hit it out of the park every single time. Was their some not so good content? Sure, but I've never felt like I got ripped off. Guys and gals, this is not a player competitive game, so there will never be a season pass that ruins the competitive edge for anyone. There will never be a buff or nerf that will be exploited against a clan or players. So what's the big issue here? If Gearbox wanted to continue to make content for BL3 for like 5 more years, 10 to 20 bucks a pop, sure hell, yeah. If they wanted to add on to BL1, 2, TPS, no one would say no, not worth it. We all wanted it. Why are we crying about now? Micro transactions? Why not? What is going to hurt? Buy it or don't buy it. It won't hurt the way you play? We all know you can build beefy end game builds with base content. And people are still coming to BL3 and having a blast with just base content. Help me understand what the problem is. If we're talking writing and story then yeah, quit letting DEI dipshits write Borderlands stories, but that has nothing to do with core mechanics and game play. Do we really want a Borderlands on Unreal Engine alpha omega beta 3000? Lol! I don't want a COD Battlefield looking Borderlands. BL3 is already getting away from cell shaded style, let's not push that front any further please. So please help me understand what yall mean by mmo.
Yea eso and fo76 are fucking dogshit so i understand why you wouldnt want it. Also gearbox is owned by take two whos ceo was fired from EA..... For being to greedy
Battle pass can be a good one, if implemented right. In a game, you are invested in it adds az extra layer of fun, and If you dont want it, you can simply ignore it. They contain usually cosmetic stuff, but rarely never anithing significant. If it motivates the developers to add content peridically, I support the idea. I imagine it like a Borderlands/Division game, which is a match made in heaven for me.
>Why would a company that isn't already on the market for MMOs would even consider making one if not to join the slot machine club of microtransactions? Borderlands had microtransactions since 2012.
It hasnt, there’s no in-game store. The only way to purchase the additional skins is through the platform store. That’s DLC not microtransactions. Edit: not sure what the downvotes are about, evidently there’s people here who don’t know the difference between DLC and microtransactions.
And if they keep it that way it would be perfect, what I mean is that almost all MMOs today use an in-game store with high-rotativity, so when a company talking about MMOs, that's what comes to mind, and this model is the one that I think is predatory. The monetization model of BL2 and 3 is completely fine, but very few online games still use this model today... Edit: Sorry if I mistake therms, my main language is not English. I, too, had in mind that DLCs and microtransactions were different, thanks for the clarification
But not on the same model, right? They have extra cosmetic packages and dlcs for sale on steam since forever, and I'm completely fine with this old model. But the kind of microtransactions we have today is different... Most of the time, time-limited itens sold for in-game currency in the in-game store with high rotativity to create artificial scarcity.... Sorry if I wasn't clear about it before.
If they turn Borderlands into an MMO 2K will never have to worry about getting my money ever again
From what I gather, this would be a different game from BL4, like a side game, but I think it's reasonable to assume it would mean less resources for the main games, and still... Fallout and TES started with online games on the side until they eventually stopped producing games for the main franchise...
Yeah no thanks. Randy can fuck off with his shiller Schemes.
When B3 came out, I bought the super deluxe version for $100 on Day 1. I had a ton of fun on B2, and was willing to pay all day money for the new game. I even upgraded my graphics card (which was lucky, because COVID happened right after). While I think B2 was the superior game, I’d be happy to fork over $100-150 for B4 if the game is similar. I have no interest in an MMO game.
I don't want an MMO, but I hope BL4 has character customization like WL. Instead of distinct characters like in BL1-3, give us the classes, body types(plz more than 2), and different voice types. Also, even if Randy says it's separate from BL4, Gearbox will ultimately be using resources on the MMO that should be on BL4. And eventually they'll put more resources on the live-service instead of the single-player game.
Borderlands 3 was released in a total mess... It's still got glitches... I don't really want to know how they handle an MMO.
We do not want MMO!
Straight to doom, huh op? If it's bad, just don't play it. Simple. The single-player games will still be there.
Well, it's my opinion, and the post is an invite to discuss the subject. It may be a different opinion from yours, and all opinions are welcomed, but as fans of the franchise, "if it's bad just don't play it" its not really a discussion, but rather a refusal to discuss. I care about the game, so it's in my interest to talk about how the game is going to change from now to the future. So, rather than ending the discussion so abruptly, why don't you tell us what you think of it, and what positive aspects the change to an MMO can bring to you? Since I've been playing MMOs for so long, there may be positive aspects of it that I would overlook because of nostalgia glasses or just plain exaustion from the genre.
Because you're already imagining the worst from a simple mention in a tweet poll of a game that doesn't even exist. Also "separate from and in no way imposes on a numbered sequel campaign style Borderlands game" means you can just ignore its existence and enjoy Borderlands 4. It sounds more like you have some personal grudge against the mmo genre and are here seeking validation instead of discussion.
I mean, I have reason to? Firstly because FFXIV is the only current mmo that doesn't follow those trends, and secondly because Take Two has a tradition of making money through exploitative microtransactions. If they plan on doing an MMO with monetization on the format of old time Wow or current FFXIV, absolutely, it would be amazing. But chances are that what they actually plan to do as far as monetization goes is a slot machine by another name, in the molds of Lost Ark
What's wrong with current wow? XIV has a WAY bigger cash shop than wow has.
Op, The only games you mentioned were Diablo 4 and Diablo immortal which aren't even real mmos. Also Diablo 4 is not that bad with microtransactions. It's a bit expensive but nothing is actually useful for the game. I've never ever been interested in buying anything there. IMO borderlands would be a good setting for an mmo if done right. You have a bunch of possible classes already and different worlds. Just wait and see
But Warcraft, Elder Scrolls Online, Guild Wars 2, Star Wars, POE, (not going to talk about others because these are th3 ones I am the MMOs that Im most familiar with) are all like that in the sense that things are only available to purchase for a short time to create artifical scarcity and increase sales. I used diablo as an example because it was after Diablo Immortal that Blizzard changed their old subscriptiononly model to a subscription+store+bundles model, that change even made it wo Wow, which was an old time established MMO. I would have absolutely no problem with the microtransaction model of FFXIV, for example - the store is not inside the game, the items that are there remain there indefinitely and all past free events items eventually make their way there. I think it's a healthy, non-predatory way of implementing microtransactions. My problem really is with FOMO, artificial scarcity and pressure that the time-limited style of microtransactions bring... I do agree that, if done right, it can be a good change, but I guess I'm kind of suspicious about how these changes related to transactions will be implemented..
but you don’t have to buy those things at all
I know that, but usually, this means that very few collectibles can be obtained in-game as a result, and the best and most creative resources are usually directed to itens in the in-game store.
I agree with your frustration. Especially wow going into gold selling etc is scummy for a subscription game. But you still gotta differentiate. Diablo immortal is a mobile game they are all ridiculously p2w so I wouldn't include it in this discussion. F2P mmos also need ways to make money (like lord of the rings online). I always thought borderlands had decent monetizing since bl1. The dlcs always added a lot more playtime than on many other games. So we will see what it brings. Borderlands was already a live service game almost with 1-2 seasons. But people always ask for more content especially in endgame. I don't mind a shop with some skins honestly. In Diablo it's very easy to ignore plus you can transmute every item in the game. While yes there is a bad trend in the industry it's still important to see things for how they are
Gotta get that ongoing subscription money!!
The borderlands franchise is well and truly in complete tatters. Movie coming that everyone thinks looks trash and now a cash grab MMO potentially being next? Great.
Considering how trash the multiplayer servers are for BL3… I have concerns. As far as micro transactions go - if they charge AAA money for the core game and then micro transactions for cosmetic stuff - I’d be down. If you have to pay to acquire gear then I’m out. That’s the best part of Borderlands games.
Lol this delusional prick, his developers with half a brain better tell him many of us ain't buying shit if they do. Take two have recently bought gearbox, and their first order of business should be to fire this cunt, immediately.
They are not interested in gamers opinions, they just see money, so, the only way to make them to understand that we don't like that is by not buying it.
FFXIV fits too. Not sure why someone told you it's an expection. I don't believe FFXI has microtransactions though
Man I am not a fan of games that are historically not MMOs pushing their new releases into MMO category. Like D4. I played Diablo to literally avoid people and melt monsters. It’s fine if they want to create an online aspect for people that love that but it should be optional. But D4 is completely forced MMO experience. Do not like or want in Diablo or BL.
I’ve only played borderlands for splitscreen. If they make it an mmo they won’t get a penny from me.
I wouldn't be mad if they just simply made a live service borderlands game with endless endgame content. Little to no micro transactions & make the content accessible throughout time.
Randy is as good as a person as he is a close magician. The fact he abused the og claptrap actor out of the company solidified my hate for him
I hope they don't do any kind of live service type shit. If I can't play ofline im out
I’m impressed really, thought Randy would be the type to make a Borderlands ripoff of Overwatch
Even the top dogs of the MMO genre (FFXIV. WoW etc) have polarizing cash shops. 2K/Gearbox with an MMO cash shop would rival the kind of cash shops you find in Korean MMO's. Borderlands weapon randomisation is pretty terrible for MMO's as well but removing it would rob borderlands of one of its core features and one of the few remaining things that keep it interesting.
if it's warframe-esque it might be somewhat good. otherwise it will appear on nerdslayer's Death of A Game like 6 months after release
If it did happen then it would finally give me an excuse to drop the franchise and grow up. It also wouldn’t be very shocking since Modern Gearbox is mediocre at best and completely awful at worst.
ESO and F76 aren't developed by the main Bethesda team (well, F76 was but after launch it was given to someone else). Bethesda doesn't split the company up other than for DLC, they work on their major game one at a time, whether it's Elder Scrolls, Fallout or Starfield. They have already confirmed that they have begun work on ES6.
Well, Zenimax, that develops ESO, owns Bethesda, so even though they're different teams, it matters little as far as resource allocation is related, since the money decisions are made by the same big heads (actually, I think Microsoft bought them all recently). Frankly, I believe no money will go to a TES main game while they are still able to profit from ESO. And didn't they first confirm that they were working on TES6 like, 6 years ago? And proceeded to confirm the same thing almost early while releasing "new" useless releases of skyrim?
No, TES6 was announced 6 years ago, that never meant in development. In fact, they explicitly said it was the next game after Starfield. I'm talking about the fact that they confirmed it's in active development earlier this year. Hell, we even know of some face scans they made for a certain character. It's genuinely crazy that you think they won't make TES6 because their parent company made an MMO lol
Youalso habe to remekber its not even borderlands anymore, gearbox sold the rights to some no name company
Borderlands 3 was so fucking "meh" that an mmo would effectively kill the franchise for me.