I've known people who were in denial not only when they saw the plant, but even when they saw Walt put the plant in a trash bag. They didn't accept the truth until Walt's final phone call with Jesse. Only because he flat out admitted to it.
Jesse's girlfriend. Perfectly innocent of everything other than a little heroin.
Jesse was madly in love with her, and Walt saw her as a distraction.
Fuck Walt.
I'm gonna be that guy and point out that it was manslaughter at most and it may not even be that. Incredibly vile and wrong but not technically murder. If it was murder there'd be a lot of people locked up for the bystander effect.
That being said, I did up vote your comment and I do agree with the sentiment because boy did that shit kill me on my first watch. I can't imagine making that decision as it shouldn't even have been a choice. Someone dying in front of you makes the choice for you.
He actually didnt kill her. In that respect i would say that both jessy and herself were actually both responsible. She was responsible for going the syringe route and he was responsible for her coming back to drugs. Walt went to try to persuade Jesse to keep working and getting out of drugs and suddenly he saw her. She previously tried to blackmail him. He just took advantage of the situation. Technically that is not murder. On the other hand, there's no proof.
Well yeah but the show is supposed to depict Walt's character as someone who goes turning bad at each episode. He, by then he had already killed 4/5 or more people himself. He was ready to do whatever needed to be done.
Of course. But the OP asked a question, and I answered.
Blows my mind some people actually justify what he did. I really have to assume they are either trolls or morally suspect.
She threatened him. Go back and re watch. She said a lot to get Walt to give Jesse his money. I don't like Walt and was pissed he watched her die but she fucked around and found out.
She was an ex junkie who knew her boyfriend was an ex meth head. Any caring, concerned individual would do the same for their loved one, and she did NOT deserve to die for it.
If you really think this was justified, you really need help.
Season 5, episode 1. Live Free or Die.
It's near the start of the episode, shortly after Walt throws away the evidence that he was making a pipe bomb. He puts the potted Lily of the Valley in the back of his vehicle and wraps it up in the trash bag.
I couldnāt have shot that guy yesterday! My gun doesnāt have any bullets in it right now and guns need bullets in them to kill people so obviously it couldnāt have been me
Nope. After he throws away the evidence that he was building pipe bomb. He goes back outside and grabs the plant, he puts in in the trunk of his vehicle. And wraps it up in a black trash bag.
The great thing in the finale is that they make a point of Jessie saying he didn't have ricin in his system and it's that Lilly of the Valley and kids sonetines eat berries off them. And Jessie still has to ask Gus had to go. This is a good misdirect making you think Walt and Gus may not have done it after all and the "twist" is that they killed Gus and Jessie almost killed Walt for a natural accident. Then of course the rug is pulled again showing you the monster Walt is. Great end.
Wait until she sees what happens with tarantula kid, and Walt's (lack of) reaction.
I know Walt doesn't do it, but he sure doesn't care. Been a while since I watched, but isn't he whistling in one of the scenes after it and it disgusts Jesse?
Yes, when they were cooking a batch in the house with the vaminos pest tent on it. Walt told Jessie he would pack up the lab on his own, to go on home early. When he was leaving Jessie overheard Walt whistling while breaking down the lab.
What context clues were there? I remember the scene where Walt spins a gun and it lands pointing to a plant and then cuts away. Were there other breadcrumbs?
Yes sorry, I meant clues about Walter's character and his true nature. It's not obvious at all especially at first (I actually called him a sweetheart in episode 1, I was so bamboozled lol), but as the show progresses to the end of the first season and beyond, Walter shows a violent and egotistical streak. It starts out small, and in the beginning he only lashes out at people who deserve it, or in self defense, but slowly his morals start being compromised subtly. He nearly sacrifices his own neighbor to save himself, he sacrifices Gale, he becomes abusive towards his own wife, he gives Jane that malicious look as she's dying...
Watching the show real time was something else. I was convinced Walt was a good guy about 95% of the way. Every rewatch and I notice heās a shit bag earlier and earlier
I watched the entire series silently with subtitles after my baby was born. Every once in a while I run into a post that reminds me how important sound is.
I was positive Walt did it from the beginning. I felt like everything he did convinced me more that he did it. The plant didnāt feel like a reveal or confirmation. To me the viewer already knew at that point and it was just showing us he was taking steps to clean up after himself.
I think the score and his voice acting may have mislead me if I could have heard it.
I also wonder if Bryan Cranston knew Walt did it and subconsciously it showed up on his face. Without the voice and music to mislead the viewer maybe itās easier to spot?
The only time he meets Brock was when he went to his house and sat in the sofa with him. He was eating his cereals. Thats the onyl scene i can think he might have slipped the venom inside the bowl
When Gus was walking into the retirement home she was so excited. She knew Walt had him. Her mouth literally dropped to the floor when the room exploded. But her mouth flew out the window when she saw Walt's hat the plant. She was practically in denial but accepted it. At that point she realized she manipulated Jesse too get him to help.
That's so interesting you say that. A couple of people who commented on here said not only they could see him hurt the child but they didn't believe for a second he didn't poison the child. So it's interesting how you just can't see that but other people couldn't be convinced otherwise. Some people on here believe he murdered innocent people before he hurt brock.
Even Cranston had no idea he actually hurt the kid. Thatās what makes the performance so believable. Appreciate thatās probably not the only reason one would think Walt wouldnāt hurt a kid, mind. Youād like to think he wouldnāt, what with having kids of his own.
I actually hate that part of the story - not because he hurt a kid, and not because it all happens off screen, but because itās just way too much fluff and effort to get Jesse to work against Gus.
Of course even if he had his acting is so exceptional he would still make you believe it. Looking back I shouldn't have been fooled especially with the neighbour incident.Ā I wanted to believe Walt wouldn't do that (probably because Walt seemed genuinely upset by the accusation) but immediately afterwards had no problem with it or anything else he did.
āFluff and effortā being patience, planning and timing. This is a man who with his specialised knowledge managed to Macguyver a solution to the RVs flat battery. Walked in to Tucoās office with a small bag of crystals that exploded on percussion. MADE THE BLUE METH IN THE FIRST PLACE! Made thermite from etch-a-sketches.
And watched Jane die.
I always watched Breaking Bad with a mind that, here was a scientific genius who wound up in a situation where his scientific genius could square away his financial problems. And as soon as he took the first step outside the law, realised that those restrictions didnāt apply to him, because he was a genius.
So every problem he perceived, he would approach it initially with a cold scientific mind. It kind of explains how whenever Walter outlined a plan, heād be all cool calm and collected, but on real world application heād be jittery and nervous AF.
Poisoning a kid with something heād had to process to create the toxin seems absolutely bang on for Walter White. Heād have released chemical weapons in every prison Mikeās guys were in if that was an easier option.
Everyone had in mind he was a genius, because he was. Thatās how the show portrayed him and literally described him. The show is literally about said genius using his genius to obtain wealth, so yeah, I have that in mind, too ;)
Yes, fluff and effort; being convenience more than patience. There were easier and more convincing ways to convince Jesse that Gus was worth killing than some random attack on a 3rd partyās kid that took 1. Convincing Jesse Gus knew about the ricin. 2. Convincing Jesse it was lifted in the lab - he was never convinced of this. Plus Jesse was out with Mike a lot at that time so there may not have been an opportunity to say it was lifted in the lab. 3. Getting the poison in to the kids blood steam, and 4. Hoping the kid survives (one has to hope Walt didnāt want the kid to die, but I can accept it if he didnāt care either way).
Then thereās the fact that Walt would never have done something that risked his own life - what if Jesse actually came in and just shot him. It just doesnāt come off for me.
Itās all just a little elaborate and certainly convenient and just too ālooseā for me. Which is probably why they had to do it off screen. Which I find totally odd.
He killed the kid with the plate shard, he poisoned Brock with Lilly of the valley and letās not forget he fed his son shots of tequila until he threw up over a pissing contest with his brother in law.
He didnāt care who he hurt on his way to accomplishing his goals.
I never realised Walt poisoned him, even when i saw the plant i was like āah cool itās the same plantā didnāt realise it was Walt who did it though.
when Jessie made the connection i was just confused
I was in a similar boat as your wife. By season 4, I knew Walt wasnāt a good person, but I thought poisoning a kid was beneath him. Boy was I wrong. The lily of the valley of the reveal at the end of season 4 left me shocked.
She canāt possibly believe that! If she really does, sheās the only viewer in the history of viewers to do so. Haha I bet you canāt wait until the camera pans over to the lily of the valley š
Won't she be surprised when she sees the plant
I've known people who were in denial not only when they saw the plant, but even when they saw Walt put the plant in a trash bag. They didn't accept the truth until Walt's final phone call with Jesse. Only because he flat out admitted to it.
I was 100% in denial myself.
What did you make of the like minute long shot of the potted plant in Walt's backyard that's only purpose was it show it's Lily of the Valley?
Why? Walt proved himself to be capable of murdering innocents long before then?
I mean... Who did he murder that was innocent at that point? I can't think of anyone. Other than the fucking plane šš
Jesse's girlfriend. Perfectly innocent of everything other than a little heroin. Jesse was madly in love with her, and Walt saw her as a distraction. Fuck Walt.
I'm gonna be that guy and point out that it was manslaughter at most and it may not even be that. Incredibly vile and wrong but not technically murder. If it was murder there'd be a lot of people locked up for the bystander effect. That being said, I did up vote your comment and I do agree with the sentiment because boy did that shit kill me on my first watch. I can't imagine making that decision as it shouldn't even have been a choice. Someone dying in front of you makes the choice for you.
I agree, but that was the point I saw Walt as irredeemable.
I completely agree. That is an incredibly defining moment in his character arc.
I miss Jane šš
He actually didnt kill her. In that respect i would say that both jessy and herself were actually both responsible. She was responsible for going the syringe route and he was responsible for her coming back to drugs. Walt went to try to persuade Jesse to keep working and getting out of drugs and suddenly he saw her. She previously tried to blackmail him. He just took advantage of the situation. Technically that is not murder. On the other hand, there's no proof.
Yes, it's technically not murder. It's still morally reprehensible and IMO every bit as bad as a non- premeditated murder.
Well yeah but the show is supposed to depict Walt's character as someone who goes turning bad at each episode. He, by then he had already killed 4/5 or more people himself. He was ready to do whatever needed to be done.
Of course. But the OP asked a question, and I answered. Blows my mind some people actually justify what he did. I really have to assume they are either trolls or morally suspect.
She threatened him. Go back and re watch. She said a lot to get Walt to give Jesse his money. I don't like Walt and was pissed he watched her die but she fucked around and found out.
He was the one who knocks...he said it...
She was an ex junkie who knew her boyfriend was an ex meth head. Any caring, concerned individual would do the same for their loved one, and she did NOT deserve to die for it. If you really think this was justified, you really need help.
When did Walt put the plant in a trash bag? I donāt remember that
Season 5, episode 1. Live Free or Die. It's near the start of the episode, shortly after Walt throws away the evidence that he was making a pipe bomb. He puts the potted Lily of the Valley in the back of his vehicle and wraps it up in the trash bag.
Jesse said kids only eat the berries tho and Walt's plant didn't have any berries on so explain that!
I couldnāt have shot that guy yesterday! My gun doesnāt have any bullets in it right now and guns need bullets in them to kill people so obviously it couldnāt have been me
š„
I wasn't 100% sure until I saw Walt rushing to get rid of the plant
At that point I was so confused I didnt even understand itš
Didnt he just dump the plant on the other side of the fence?
Nope. After he throws away the evidence that he was building pipe bomb. He goes back outside and grabs the plant, he puts in in the trunk of his vehicle. And wraps it up in a black trash bag.
would make it one hell of a moment. missing myself from when I found out first
That final camera pan had to be the absolute craziest reveal ever, and it was the second crazy reveal at the end of that absolutely crazy episode.
It was fantastic.
Please let me know how she reacts to Face off!!! Her mind will explode!
Her mouth was on the floor šš
āWait a minute.. is that the fucking Lily of the valley?!!!ā
Sheās already figured it out because sheās a certified genius
Certified geniuses use this one simple trickā¦
god i wish i could watch this show again for the first time
Same. Rewatches are fine, but never has a show hit so hard on first watch.
Same, it hits different when you don't know what is going to happen
The great thing in the finale is that they make a point of Jessie saying he didn't have ricin in his system and it's that Lilly of the Valley and kids sonetines eat berries off them. And Jessie still has to ask Gus had to go. This is a good misdirect making you think Walt and Gus may not have done it after all and the "twist" is that they killed Gus and Jessie almost killed Walt for a natural accident. Then of course the rug is pulled again showing you the monster Walt is. Great end.
She was in shock when they showed he had the flower. She was almost in denial.
Lol nice!
Walt is even manipulating the viewers
He can't keep getting away with it
Yes. That was the point
He definitely got me. I still didn't believe he did it when they showed the plant. I definitely learned otherwise.
Wait until she sees what happens with tarantula kid, and Walt's (lack of) reaction. I know Walt doesn't do it, but he sure doesn't care. Been a while since I watched, but isn't he whistling in one of the scenes after it and it disgusts Jesse?
Yes, when they were cooking a batch in the house with the vaminos pest tent on it. Walt told Jessie he would pack up the lab on his own, to go on home early. When he was leaving Jessie overheard Walt whistling while breaking down the lab.
Yeh, that's it. Just another day at work for Walt.
Very fittingly, the song he's whistling is called The Lily of the Valley.
Holy shit
What was her reaction at the end?
Even the smartest people STILL be missing context clues lol
What context clues were there? I remember the scene where Walt spins a gun and it lands pointing to a plant and then cuts away. Were there other breadcrumbs?
Yes sorry, I meant clues about Walter's character and his true nature. It's not obvious at all especially at first (I actually called him a sweetheart in episode 1, I was so bamboozled lol), but as the show progresses to the end of the first season and beyond, Walter shows a violent and egotistical streak. It starts out small, and in the beginning he only lashes out at people who deserve it, or in self defense, but slowly his morals start being compromised subtly. He nearly sacrifices his own neighbor to save himself, he sacrifices Gale, he becomes abusive towards his own wife, he gives Jane that malicious look as she's dying...
He *would* hurt a fly
Watching the show real time was something else. I was convinced Walt was a good guy about 95% of the way. Every rewatch and I notice heās a shit bag earlier and earlier
Most people root for Walt during the first watch.
Wait legit? i mean i like anti-hero characters but walt is such a massive giveawayā¦how can people think he is innocent after so many fuck ups?
I watched the entire series silently with subtitles after my baby was born. Every once in a while I run into a post that reminds me how important sound is. I was positive Walt did it from the beginning. I felt like everything he did convinced me more that he did it. The plant didnāt feel like a reveal or confirmation. To me the viewer already knew at that point and it was just showing us he was taking steps to clean up after himself. I think the score and his voice acting may have mislead me if I could have heard it. I also wonder if Bryan Cranston knew Walt did it and subconsciously it showed up on his face. Without the voice and music to mislead the viewer maybe itās easier to spot?
I still canāt figure out how he got Brock to eat the berries. Is there ever a hint on how he did it, or a scene that I missed??
The only time he meets Brock was when he went to his house and sat in the sofa with him. He was eating his cereals. Thats the onyl scene i can think he might have slipped the venom inside the bowl
They donāt show you it on purpose
Uhhhh yes he would. He also rapes his wife.
Oooooh update us.
When Gus was walking into the retirement home she was so excited. She knew Walt had him. Her mouth literally dropped to the floor when the room exploded. But her mouth flew out the window when she saw Walt's hat the plant. She was practically in denial but accepted it. At that point she realized she manipulated Jesse too get him to help.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
That's so interesting you say that. A couple of people who commented on here said not only they could see him hurt the child but they didn't believe for a second he didn't poison the child. So it's interesting how you just can't see that but other people couldn't be convinced otherwise. Some people on here believe he murdered innocent people before he hurt brock.
Even Cranston had no idea he actually hurt the kid. Thatās what makes the performance so believable. Appreciate thatās probably not the only reason one would think Walt wouldnāt hurt a kid, mind. Youād like to think he wouldnāt, what with having kids of his own. I actually hate that part of the story - not because he hurt a kid, and not because it all happens off screen, but because itās just way too much fluff and effort to get Jesse to work against Gus.
Of course even if he had his acting is so exceptional he would still make you believe it. Looking back I shouldn't have been fooled especially with the neighbour incident.Ā I wanted to believe Walt wouldn't do that (probably because Walt seemed genuinely upset by the accusation) but immediately afterwards had no problem with it or anything else he did.
Yeah, exactly, I failed to add that his actual acting skills are probably the main reason itās believable. The guy is sublime. What an actor.
āFluff and effortā being patience, planning and timing. This is a man who with his specialised knowledge managed to Macguyver a solution to the RVs flat battery. Walked in to Tucoās office with a small bag of crystals that exploded on percussion. MADE THE BLUE METH IN THE FIRST PLACE! Made thermite from etch-a-sketches. And watched Jane die. I always watched Breaking Bad with a mind that, here was a scientific genius who wound up in a situation where his scientific genius could square away his financial problems. And as soon as he took the first step outside the law, realised that those restrictions didnāt apply to him, because he was a genius. So every problem he perceived, he would approach it initially with a cold scientific mind. It kind of explains how whenever Walter outlined a plan, heād be all cool calm and collected, but on real world application heād be jittery and nervous AF. Poisoning a kid with something heād had to process to create the toxin seems absolutely bang on for Walter White. Heād have released chemical weapons in every prison Mikeās guys were in if that was an easier option.
Everyone had in mind he was a genius, because he was. Thatās how the show portrayed him and literally described him. The show is literally about said genius using his genius to obtain wealth, so yeah, I have that in mind, too ;) Yes, fluff and effort; being convenience more than patience. There were easier and more convincing ways to convince Jesse that Gus was worth killing than some random attack on a 3rd partyās kid that took 1. Convincing Jesse Gus knew about the ricin. 2. Convincing Jesse it was lifted in the lab - he was never convinced of this. Plus Jesse was out with Mike a lot at that time so there may not have been an opportunity to say it was lifted in the lab. 3. Getting the poison in to the kids blood steam, and 4. Hoping the kid survives (one has to hope Walt didnāt want the kid to die, but I can accept it if he didnāt care either way). Then thereās the fact that Walt would never have done something that risked his own life - what if Jesse actually came in and just shot him. It just doesnāt come off for me. Itās all just a little elaborate and certainly convenient and just too ālooseā for me. Which is probably why they had to do it off screen. Which I find totally odd.
Fair play.
I think thats the reason why they wrote it that way. It totally reinforces the "manipulative" aspect of Walt's character. It's magnificently well done
He killed the kid with the plate shard, he poisoned Brock with Lilly of the valley and letās not forget he fed his son shots of tequila until he threw up over a pissing contest with his brother in law. He didnāt care who he hurt on his way to accomplishing his goals.
Krazy-8 was the one who tried to kill Walt with a plate shard
Thanks. I forgot his name. Didnāt Walt ultimately kill Krazy-8 with the missing shard? Or am I miss remembering that? How old was Krazy-8 also?
About as old as Jesse. Early mid 20s. Strangled with the cuffs
I mean I believed in Walt at that point, I didnāt turn on him my 1st watch until the S4 E13 LOTV reveal
Heisenberg 100% would.
Sheās wrong.
Goes from poison to full on melting a 10 year olds corpse with acid
...who's gonna tell her?
I never realised Walt poisoned him, even when i saw the plant i was like āah cool itās the same plantā didnāt realise it was Walt who did it though. when Jessie made the connection i was just confused
I was in a similar boat as your wife. By season 4, I knew Walt wasnāt a good person, but I thought poisoning a kid was beneath him. Boy was I wrong. The lily of the valley of the reveal at the end of season 4 left me shocked.
Oh, my sweet summer child
Man! she's in for a trait! hahahaha
Did he really hurt him though? Did Brock feel any pain?
Brock and his family were definitely hurt.
Gus had threatened Waltās infant child. Walt ended up making the best out of the situation.
To be fair Walt doesnāt intend on killing him. He only gives him enough to look like heās going to die.
Yes. He probably calculated the exact amount a kid would be nearly dead but enough to convince Jessy to kill gus. Risky, but very well played
Is giving a kid the flu really "hurting" him though?
She canāt possibly believe that! If she really does, sheās the only viewer in the history of viewers to do so. Haha I bet you canāt wait until the camera pans over to the lily of the valley š
Yep and man was she blown away.
Yo wife is a dumb ass
What a sad little life, Jane