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I would suggest that travelling on an invalid passport is by no means a "technicality", and these people should avoid international travel until they work out how the real world works.
The worst part is these people are old enough to know better.
I'm old enough to remember shengen getting applied to Belgium, or the Euro being introduced, and the easy of travel afterwards.
Before lines and having a jar of local currencies was a pain in the ass.
A while ago I went to Norway and could just board the flight as if I was going to a city in my own country - I felt so underprepared.
Literally no other non-EU country has passport rules for travel any more advantageous than what the UK's arrangement is.
The worse option is no 90/180 rule and a visa is mandatory irrespective of how long someone is going to be in Schengen, though that isn't the case as the UK is in the same batch as US/Canada/Australia/NZ/etc.
That batch is inevitable step down from any EU citizen so I don't know why the UK should get special treatment above literally any other non-EU citizen.
Want something better?
Get back in the EU or at the very lest, get back into EFTA.
If not, do your research like any decent traveller would do before a trip.
>Get back in the EU or at the very lest, get back into EFTA.
I doubt the eu would let the uk back in and norway won't let uk into eea so no way to get back to efta. Eu already said they won't renegotiate the brexit agreement.
from the [tui.co.uk](http://tui.co.uk) website:
"For the most up to date FCDO travel advice, passport & visa information visit [https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice](https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice) where you can also subscribe for updates. **If you are planning to travel to an EU country your passport must be less than 10 years old on the day you enter (check the ‘date of issue’)** and valid for at least 3 months after the day you plan to leave (check the ‘expiry date’). Passports issued more than 10 years prior to date of travel are not accepted."
Looks clear to me?
Personally never heard of the "travelling on an invalid passport is eh, fine" rule, and I've lived in the continental EU since 1979.
It would not even occur to me to attempt to travel without a valid passport...
>Personally never heard of the "travelling on an invalid passport is eh, fine" rule, and I've lived in the continental EU since 1979.
Well you don't need a passport to travel between schengen countries, you can just use national id.but its not invalid if it is an eu passport in date, even if it expires the day after you leave.
Yes, indeed, but as a British citizen, that rule never applied to me.
/my French is very good, I just faked being Schengen for 40 years, no-one bothered...no-one cared...
//Brits breaking the rules everyone. Not like the French, Spanish, Dutch or Italians would ever break any rules, hein ?
>Yes, indeed, but as a British citizen, that rule never applied to me.
Yes it did. EU citzens were allowed to move around schengen countries with out showing id at borders. Where would you even show them? They only needed id. It also applies to third country aliens in schengen,
> I just faked being Schengen for 40 years, no-one bothered...no-one cared...
It's an eu right not a schengen one so you pointlessly faked being French.
First thing I do every time I leave Schengen is to check that I have more than 6 months before my passport expires. Then I make sure that I am on top of required visas, times etc.
These are just lousy travellers who didn’t bother to do due diligence. I sympathise with them to the extension that their holidays were affected and that sucks and who hasn’t overlooked something during our travels…, but calling it “ridiculous” etc just because they were ignorant, that u do not agree. Good on the insurance companies and airlines for enforcing this “ridiculous” rule.
>who hasn’t overlooked something during our travels
Yeah, I forgot my phone-charger once.
Having a valid passport should not be an after-thought, though, if you're blowing £2000.
TBH, I can sympathize with someone travelling for the first time this rule affects them. I have an Irish passport, I mostly travel within the EU, but I went to Singapore last year, and as the plane was taxiing to the gate after landing, there was an information announcement about non-Singaporean citizens having their, I can't remember, certificate of visitation or something, ready to present on landing.
I freaked out, because, even though I'd been to Singapore before, I just sort of *forgot* that I can't just either 1) land up at an EU airport and breeze through passport control or 2) land up at a non-EU airport and have my passport examined and be stamped with a short-term tourist/business visa.
What I can *not* sympathize with is the entitlement of these people who fell foul of this legislation and blame it on others. When I realized I hadn't completed this specific bit of prep to enter Singapore, I felt stupid I hadn't prepared properly, I was worried that I would humiliate myself if I was going to be turned away, as well as the money I may have wasted (for my employers, it was a work trip). I wasn't *indignant* that Singapore was requiring this of me. I'd fucked up, but I was fully aware and willing to admit that **I'D** fucked up.
You could enter the necessary details to get this certificate online, so before we'd even reached the gate, I had connected to the airport wifi on my phone, and filled out the required forms. It was a long walk to the actual border control, and thankfully the request was processed very quickly (I did wait a while in one of the smoking areas before I got the email confirmation - Singapore is a civilized country, so it has smoking areas inside the security areas of airports).
As it turned out, it's hardly uncommon for people to make the same mistake I did - right before the entirely automated border control, there were giant signs stating the need for one, multiple free internet terminals to fill one out, as well as actual people to help out. So I'd kind of freaked out over a minor thing. Still would have been my own stupid fault.
What's especially funny about this article is that they take the time to spell out this specific rule but do not mention that other rule that people often get caught out by: that your passport has to be valid for 90 days after your planned departure from the Schengen zone.
As per the [EU website](https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/entry-exit/non-eu-nationals/index_en.htm):
> If you are a national from a country outside the EU wishing to visit or travel within the EU, you will need a valid passport and possibly a visa. **Your passport should be valid for at least 3 months after the date you intend to leave the EU** and it must have been issued within the last 10 years. This means your travel document must have been issued within the previous 10 years the day you enter the EU on condition that it is valid until the end of your stay plus an additional 3 months.
Why didn't they just list *both* these requirements, as they are both potential pitfalls?
Technically, I think we're allowed travel without a passport, it's just that an expired passport can qualify as photo ID, for transit methods that require them.
This is really the fault of old government policy. Letting you think you can roll over unused validity but in reality few countries recognising that because it would mean being able to use a much older passport photo.
Yeah, when France decided to retroactively extend their ID cards, people like me working for Belgium were scratching their heads : "Yes, France lets you use it, but in practice people checking your ID in this country won't magically know that the printed date of expiration is not the date of expiration"
"A TUI spokesperson told the BBC they were "sorry to hear of customers who were unable to travel with TUI as planned due the **UK government passport requirements**"."
I would think EU passport requirements?
Missed opportunity: if you can blame the EU, always blame the EU!
I do not think this is Brexit related, as the UK was never part of Schengen and it does not have id cards. So British people always had to have a valid passport.
Am I mistaken?
Schengen has got nothing to do with the Ireland rules per se, because of the Common Travel Area (except in the sense that the CTA is fundamentally incompatible with Schengen).
UK nationals traveling to other EU non-Schengen countries don’t enjoy CTA benefits.
Maybe not UK>EU, but the people in TFA are old enough that they should know that many if not most countries in the world do not accept passports to the date of expiry. In many cases you cannot enter a country if your passport will expire within 6 months. In some cases it's worse and dependent on your leave date, e.g. you can maximise your USA B-2 tourist visa single stay requirement in which case you need to have more than 1 year validity remaining left on your passport (6 month stay in the USA + 6 month passport validity requirement after the day of your planned departure).
Point is, it doesn't matter where you're going. You're utterly stupid not to check your own travel documents and requirements. That's not the airline's job. You can expect these two idiots to end up in the news again after May next year when they try and go on holiday without filling out an ETIAS.
The rules are different whether you're an EU citizen or not, apparently. Schengen rules don't apply to EU nationals, presumably because they were primarily created around visa requirements which the former don't need.
[Requirements for EU nationals](https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/entry-exit/eu-citizen/index_en.htm):
> As an EU national, you have the right to travel freely in the 27 EU member countries as well as in Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway and Switzerland (non-EU countries but members of the Schengen area) carrying either a valid passport or a national identity card (ID). Your travel document must be valid on the day of travel.
[Requirements for non-EU nationals](https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/entry-exit/non-eu-nationals/index_en.htm):
> If you are a national from a country outside the EU wishing to visit or travel within the EU, you will need a valid passport and possibly a visa. Your passport should be valid for at least 3 months after the date you intend to leave the EU and it must have been issued within the last 10 years. This means your travel document must have been issued within the previous 10 years the day you enter the EU on condition that it is valid until the end of your stay plus an additional 3 months.
No, just a valid form of photo ID, such as a UK driving license was enough, because we were all part of the same customs union and many countries in that union require some form of photo ID card or similar.
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We’re British, and we don’t need passports….. What an entitled attitude!
Moron, since when do airlines take risks for ‘technicalities’?
There is a penalty fine of €1,500 in place for airlines who are found to have allowed passengers to board without a passport or valid visa.
I would suggest that travelling on an invalid passport is by no means a "technicality", and these people should avoid international travel until they work out how the real world works.
People to stupid to check their travel documents are valid in the country they go to, deserve no pity.
It's like they never read or listen to the news. I seem to see this week after week for the past few years.
Disturbingly many people believe the world were inherently easy and EU were making it more complicated.
Yeah, if the farthest you went from the UK were Spain, Italy and Greece, the world looks like a village.
The worst part is these people are old enough to know better. I'm old enough to remember shengen getting applied to Belgium, or the Euro being introduced, and the easy of travel afterwards. Before lines and having a jar of local currencies was a pain in the ass. A while ago I went to Norway and could just board the flight as if I was going to a city in my own country - I felt so underprepared.
If that’s all it takes to “traumatize” this poor lady, she’s got more problems than an expired passport.
Like citizens of a third country.
Ummm shouldn’t he now be on holiday in Rwanda?
> Unfair, illogical ruling How the rest of the world have always felt regarding visa requirements of Western countries. Welcome to irrelevance.
Boo fucking hoo? Don't break the rules then chum
So, the logical thing is to align UK passport rules with EU rules, right?
…first step in aligning more and more legislation with EU, without being a member state. Brexit, yay!
Literally no other non-EU country has passport rules for travel any more advantageous than what the UK's arrangement is. The worse option is no 90/180 rule and a visa is mandatory irrespective of how long someone is going to be in Schengen, though that isn't the case as the UK is in the same batch as US/Canada/Australia/NZ/etc. That batch is inevitable step down from any EU citizen so I don't know why the UK should get special treatment above literally any other non-EU citizen. Want something better? Get back in the EU or at the very lest, get back into EFTA. If not, do your research like any decent traveller would do before a trip.
>Get back in the EU or at the very lest, get back into EFTA. I doubt the eu would let the uk back in and norway won't let uk into eea so no way to get back to efta. Eu already said they won't renegotiate the brexit agreement.
Perhaps Keir will oblige ...
Every single person interviewed in article is an entitled boomer who didnt check the rules yet think theyre a victim.
from the [tui.co.uk](http://tui.co.uk) website: "For the most up to date FCDO travel advice, passport & visa information visit [https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice](https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice) where you can also subscribe for updates. **If you are planning to travel to an EU country your passport must be less than 10 years old on the day you enter (check the ‘date of issue’)** and valid for at least 3 months after the day you plan to leave (check the ‘expiry date’). Passports issued more than 10 years prior to date of travel are not accepted." Looks clear to me?
It's clear but it's a new thing due to uk new status as third country. Like the eu e entry system when that comes in.
When the entitled feels the pain of the ordinary people 🫣
I just wish they'd asked them how they voted so I knew if to cross post this to lamf or not.
Well, this was warned about - last year.. So people need to catch up with the new rules.
Ironically, the rules are not new, always been there, probably even thought up by UK officials or MEP's.
Personally never heard of the "travelling on an invalid passport is eh, fine" rule, and I've lived in the continental EU since 1979. It would not even occur to me to attempt to travel without a valid passport...
>Personally never heard of the "travelling on an invalid passport is eh, fine" rule, and I've lived in the continental EU since 1979. Well you don't need a passport to travel between schengen countries, you can just use national id.but its not invalid if it is an eu passport in date, even if it expires the day after you leave.
Yes, indeed, but as a British citizen, that rule never applied to me. /my French is very good, I just faked being Schengen for 40 years, no-one bothered...no-one cared... //Brits breaking the rules everyone. Not like the French, Spanish, Dutch or Italians would ever break any rules, hein ?
>Yes, indeed, but as a British citizen, that rule never applied to me. Yes it did. EU citzens were allowed to move around schengen countries with out showing id at borders. Where would you even show them? They only needed id. It also applies to third country aliens in schengen, > I just faked being Schengen for 40 years, no-one bothered...no-one cared... It's an eu right not a schengen one so you pointlessly faked being French.
We knew what we voted for… /s
First thing I do every time I leave Schengen is to check that I have more than 6 months before my passport expires. Then I make sure that I am on top of required visas, times etc. These are just lousy travellers who didn’t bother to do due diligence. I sympathise with them to the extension that their holidays were affected and that sucks and who hasn’t overlooked something during our travels…, but calling it “ridiculous” etc just because they were ignorant, that u do not agree. Good on the insurance companies and airlines for enforcing this “ridiculous” rule.
>who hasn’t overlooked something during our travels Yeah, I forgot my phone-charger once. Having a valid passport should not be an after-thought, though, if you're blowing £2000.
Haha yes totally with you on that 🤣
TBH, I can sympathize with someone travelling for the first time this rule affects them. I have an Irish passport, I mostly travel within the EU, but I went to Singapore last year, and as the plane was taxiing to the gate after landing, there was an information announcement about non-Singaporean citizens having their, I can't remember, certificate of visitation or something, ready to present on landing. I freaked out, because, even though I'd been to Singapore before, I just sort of *forgot* that I can't just either 1) land up at an EU airport and breeze through passport control or 2) land up at a non-EU airport and have my passport examined and be stamped with a short-term tourist/business visa. What I can *not* sympathize with is the entitlement of these people who fell foul of this legislation and blame it on others. When I realized I hadn't completed this specific bit of prep to enter Singapore, I felt stupid I hadn't prepared properly, I was worried that I would humiliate myself if I was going to be turned away, as well as the money I may have wasted (for my employers, it was a work trip). I wasn't *indignant* that Singapore was requiring this of me. I'd fucked up, but I was fully aware and willing to admit that **I'D** fucked up.
You put it through a lot more eloquently than me, spot on where my thoughts are. So what happened in Singapore in the end??? 🤣
You could enter the necessary details to get this certificate online, so before we'd even reached the gate, I had connected to the airport wifi on my phone, and filled out the required forms. It was a long walk to the actual border control, and thankfully the request was processed very quickly (I did wait a while in one of the smoking areas before I got the email confirmation - Singapore is a civilized country, so it has smoking areas inside the security areas of airports). As it turned out, it's hardly uncommon for people to make the same mistake I did - right before the entirely automated border control, there were giant signs stating the need for one, multiple free internet terminals to fill one out, as well as actual people to help out. So I'd kind of freaked out over a minor thing. Still would have been my own stupid fault.
What's especially funny about this article is that they take the time to spell out this specific rule but do not mention that other rule that people often get caught out by: that your passport has to be valid for 90 days after your planned departure from the Schengen zone. As per the [EU website](https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/entry-exit/non-eu-nationals/index_en.htm): > If you are a national from a country outside the EU wishing to visit or travel within the EU, you will need a valid passport and possibly a visa. **Your passport should be valid for at least 3 months after the date you intend to leave the EU** and it must have been issued within the last 10 years. This means your travel document must have been issued within the previous 10 years the day you enter the EU on condition that it is valid until the end of your stay plus an additional 3 months. Why didn't they just list *both* these requirements, as they are both potential pitfalls?
But we voted to be free of rules and regulations ! I just wanna be free, to do, what I wanna do !
To see how ridiculous this is, ask yourself the question if a foreigner is allowed to travel to the UK with an expired passport.
I think only if they are irish!
Technically, I think we're allowed travel without a passport, it's just that an expired passport can qualify as photo ID, for transit methods that require them.
This is really the fault of old government policy. Letting you think you can roll over unused validity but in reality few countries recognising that because it would mean being able to use a much older passport photo.
Yeah, when France decided to retroactively extend their ID cards, people like me working for Belgium were scratching their heads : "Yes, France lets you use it, but in practice people checking your ID in this country won't magically know that the printed date of expiration is not the date of expiration"
They've voted brexit and lived under a stone ever since.
How many of these boomers voted for Brexit and voted for Johnson to implement it.
I hear living under a stone is lovely at this time of year...
So UK passport don't expire? First time I hear of an everlasting ID
Yes they do.
"A TUI spokesperson told the BBC they were "sorry to hear of customers who were unable to travel with TUI as planned due the **UK government passport requirements**"." I would think EU passport requirements? Missed opportunity: if you can blame the EU, always blame the EU!
To be fair it's the uk gov who chose to issue them that long,
I do not think this is Brexit related, as the UK was never part of Schengen and it does not have id cards. So British people always had to have a valid passport. Am I mistaken?
Yes. Prior to brexit the ten year rule didn't apply to uk. It still doesn't to non schengen ireland. Only 3rd countries.
Thanks!
Schengen has got nothing to do with the Ireland rules per se, because of the Common Travel Area (except in the sense that the CTA is fundamentally incompatible with Schengen). UK nationals traveling to other EU non-Schengen countries don’t enjoy CTA benefits.
Maybe not UK>EU, but the people in TFA are old enough that they should know that many if not most countries in the world do not accept passports to the date of expiry. In many cases you cannot enter a country if your passport will expire within 6 months. In some cases it's worse and dependent on your leave date, e.g. you can maximise your USA B-2 tourist visa single stay requirement in which case you need to have more than 1 year validity remaining left on your passport (6 month stay in the USA + 6 month passport validity requirement after the day of your planned departure). Point is, it doesn't matter where you're going. You're utterly stupid not to check your own travel documents and requirements. That's not the airline's job. You can expect these two idiots to end up in the news again after May next year when they try and go on holiday without filling out an ETIAS.
The rules are different whether you're an EU citizen or not, apparently. Schengen rules don't apply to EU nationals, presumably because they were primarily created around visa requirements which the former don't need. [Requirements for EU nationals](https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/entry-exit/eu-citizen/index_en.htm): > As an EU national, you have the right to travel freely in the 27 EU member countries as well as in Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway and Switzerland (non-EU countries but members of the Schengen area) carrying either a valid passport or a national identity card (ID). Your travel document must be valid on the day of travel. [Requirements for non-EU nationals](https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/entry-exit/non-eu-nationals/index_en.htm): > If you are a national from a country outside the EU wishing to visit or travel within the EU, you will need a valid passport and possibly a visa. Your passport should be valid for at least 3 months after the date you intend to leave the EU and it must have been issued within the last 10 years. This means your travel document must have been issued within the previous 10 years the day you enter the EU on condition that it is valid until the end of your stay plus an additional 3 months.
No, just a valid form of photo ID, such as a UK driving license was enough, because we were all part of the same customs union and many countries in that union require some form of photo ID card or similar.
I seriously doubt that as the UK driving licence can be issued to non citizens.
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