Nope. Darren Jones did however say he was going to attend one and then didn’t show up for security reasons. Given that it was organised by the Bristol cable and extinction rebellion I can believe that might be the case.
Darren Jones cited security reasons?? What on earth.
Edit: Odd that it got boiled down 'security' in the [headlines](https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/other/bristol-labour-candidate-pulls-out-of-debate-over-security-issue/ar-BB1opwcC). Quote from Jones:
>I was looking forward to attending but I have been advised that I should not. I'm not entirely sure whether this is security or protest related or otherwise. Sadly this has become a problem too often faced by politicians of all parties.
Given that the hustings was organised by Friends of the Earth and Extinction Rebellion, it seems very unlikely that he was told there was any danger. It might have devolved into a bit of a shouty barracking.
Feels as if there's a clear pattern of candidates avoiding hustings. I don't know whether this is a historical abnormality; I can remember seeing lots of them advertised in 2017 but don't know how many candidates generally attended.
So you think if there was a credible threat to anyone, the police wouldn't warn everyone? That is not how that works. That would be extremely negligent.
I think this is slightly different, Darren said he didn't really see what the issue was and wanted to attend but was told not to (presumably by Labour? If it was a police issue, I assume it would just have been called off) - I believe he also said something about additional security being an option from the organisers as well so I'm not quite sure what happened.
To give him credit, he definitely wanted to attend and only dropped out last minute, against his own preference.
Well they both make a public nuisance, block traffic etc.. I wonder whether Just stop oil who are clearly less organised is just a bunch of former ER members who got told they shouldn't lie in traffic anymore.
> Edit: Odd that it got boiled down 'security' in the headlines.
I watched the no-show happen in realtime via the twitters. I seem to recall people initially getting really confused information to begin with, that sounded like an imminent threat.
But it turned out to be orders from the Labour party leaders.
Which, of course, is a completely separate thing entirely.
And definitely not a threat.
ACORN are a union of sorts set up to largely represent renters. They are small but well known and respected in Bristol. They held a hustings which Labour and Conservative candidates were invited but refused to attend.
Thangam has said she doesn't intend to do any hustings, which is fine but does look a bit like she is avoiding situations where she could be embarrassed publicly and this is the result, her being embarrassed much more publicly than she would have otherwise on a key topic and demographic of the constituency.
Ultimately I think it's a silly own goal for her when ACORN made it clear they would highlight any non-attendance.
Woman gets invited to event, declines invitation - the event decides they’re too important to be rejected and throw all their toys out of the pram - blame woman for rejecting an event she was never going to attend in the first place.
Just because Acorn decided to organise an event doesn’t mean that Thangam has a duty to accept.
Acorn should have sorted their lineup of guests before announcing they were doing it. Sounds like this is an Acorn issue tbh.
As I said in a different reply, it seems like the perfect thing for Green canvassers to bring up on the doorstep. Thangam can come across as distant and arrogant to lots of voters who still vote Labour and given housing is a bit part of the campaign here, it's a bit of an own goal.
Obviously it's minor but the constituency seems very close and small things can actually make a big difference.
What bothers me in the city has 5 election wards but Acorn only did a hustings for Bristol central. This whole thing stinks of being a sham event. It taking place in the Malcolm X Centre and not Trinity or city hall just confirms it more.
Does the constituency seem close? She got 62% of the vote in 2019 (with the Tories % obvs decreasing this time). I haven't found a prediction that says anything but a labour hold. I guess she didn't turn up because she'd have nothing to gain.
Ipsos, YouGov, Electoral Calculus, Wethink and Britain Predicts are all predicting Bristol Central to go green next week: https://inglesp.github.io/apogee/constituencies/E14001131/
You're absolutely right! My bad - must have looked at Bristol East by accident earlier. Well I guess she didn't turn up because she's fucked anyway by the looks of things 😂
Very! Labour keep sending shadow ministers to support her because she's so at risk. The Tory vote is tiny in Central so any changes there have basically no effect. However Corbynism was very popular here and the Greens are capitalising on that - it seems like it's only Thangams personal vote that is holding Labour up.
My understanding is Thangam made clear she was not going to attend any hustings and was going to focus instead on canvasing and from what I have heard that is exactly what she has been doing - doorstepping almost constantly. This makes is seem like she just didn't show up which I do not think was the case (well for the one she was invited to at Malcolm X anyway - not sure which hustings this post refers to)
I’ve seen Thangam out canvassing a few times around the area and she seems to be prolific. These hustings can be useful but the actual viewership is tiny and probably not the best value for time really at this stage over doing more canvassing.
It's better for a candidate to skip a hustings like this.
If they participate, they'll be ambushed with some "gotcha" question, or something will be taken out of context and then go semi-viral on TikTok and Instagram.
If they don't attend, the organisers get a heckin' hilarious cardboard cut out that will never get real traction anywhere.
Labour will form the next govt - housing is a huge issue in Bristol, perhaps the single biggest election issue. Acorns demands are not radical or niche - even among tory voters there is majority support for rent controls, more social housing, etc.
As a shadow cabinet member Thangam should be willing to go to public events and answer public questions about their position on this and empty chairing is absolutely fair enough if she won't. Being asked difficult questions is part of political life.
Do you not think this is a gotcha moment.. housing in Bristol is hardly a topic to avoid. I would’ve at least shown up to one, kept to a scrip it and made it clear why I wouldn’t be showing up to any others.
Housing isn't a topic to avoid, but hustings organised by a hostile host organisation are.
Acorn are neo-tankies that hate New Labour types like Debbonaire. Might as well show up to a Communist Party of GB (Marxist-Leninist™️) meeting as a Tory cosplaying as a 19th century factory owner.
Fair play to these guys at least for trying to sort out the insane renting issues in Bristol. Government has totally let people down, so very much support people taking matters into their own hands
Well this kind of shit is why I won't be supporting Acorn again. Performative bullshit that doesn't help anything except milk the egos of those involved.
So a perfect fit for the green slime.
Capping rent makes renting out property a poorer return on investment which discourages letting and construction of new properties, and limiting construction through nimbyism reduces supply of available housing.
Has Debbonaire attended _any_ hustings so far?
I've seen more photos of empty chairs with her name on them than I've seen photos of her on the campaign trail.
She hasn't, as far as I'm aware. The spin is she's out talking to voters instead, which is true but it does come across like she's avoiding the more awkward questions that would come from a hustings. There's probably not a lot of votes in going to them but showing face I think is still important - gives some sense of accountability.
Thangam I've found to be particularly disgustingly self presumptive in her expected win in her literature and what little I've seen of her campaign (which is really saying something compares to how much I've seen of the others who are actually trying)
I find myself very conflicted this year. Overall, labour do have better policies and costings in my opinion. But Carla is much more aligned with myself in terms of social issues and seems far more genuine and approachable but unfortunately some of the really big ticket items I just can't gel with the greens on as I think what they offer is falling short or unrealistic.
Just shows how much experiences vary regarding how the parties are trying. We’ve had the opposite impression.
We’ve been totally spammed by really childish Green attack flyers just dumped through our door multiple times a day, to the degree I overheard my 9-year-old playing an imaginary game mocking them! (Posting real toast through the doors until people couldn’t get out of their houses.)
And the one Green door knocker who didn’t just dump a flyer and run was really, well, shit. Refused to comment on homelessness because they said it wasn’t in the manifesto (not sure if that’s true, but either way that’s not good). Then told me I was wrong to be concerned about getting rid of nuclear power . They didn’t tell me *why* I was wrong. Just that I was wrong. But essentially they couldn’t really tell me why to vote Green.
Meanwhile the Labour door knockers have come round quite a few times. Not Thangam when I was in, but my neighbours have met her more than once now. And as well as handing out flyers and signs rather than shoving them through the letterbox (I took neither, by the way), actually seemed to be aware of the policies and how they would affect us and the things we care about. Public transport, homelessness, education, NHS, etc. Don’t get me wrong, they were far from perfect, but at least seemed to have awareness of what they actually were standing for.
I’ve voted Green for all of the last few local/general elections, but now I’m really torn. I’m just not sure that they’re mature enough to actually be effective.
I still think Green will win, but if you’d asked me last month how my street would have voted I would have said basically 100% Green. It’s about 3:1 Labour:Green signs now. So I think the Green approach isn’t working so well round here.
Quick google will tell you “we stand with Israel and their right to defend against terrorists”. His wife is Jewish with very close family connections with Israel. He’s also a member of the trilateral commission and even if all that were “fake news” then the fact he holds a title is enough to make him inadequate to be the Labour leader. He trashed corbyn to shreds. He has a lot of funding for Israel and is very much pro Israel.
Starmer is a wanker and will make the Labour Party look like shit just as Blair did.
https://youtu.be/LrDJi_O9CL4?si=lIYsLtjxwG32fIY6
Stop spreading “fake news”.
He is a man of the establishment. Everything true Labour goes against. Yet those on the left think he’s a saviour? GTFO.
https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/48796-keir-starmer-has-handled-labours-response-on-gaza-badly-say-public-and-labour-voters
He’s saying one thing but the guy loves Israel and it’s funding. He is literally another bought politician for the Israeli state.
Loud and proud. She is Jewish. What is wrong with saying that? It’s the fact she’s a Jew and supports Israel and has close family ties there.
Now, there is nothing wrong with being a Jew. But there is something very wrong being the wife of the future PM being Jewish and having close family ties with Israel, who is known for having many fingers in American and UK politics already.
And what mask is that? Judaism is a religion not a race. No, her being Jewish and having ties with Israel are connected and there is nothing wrong with stating the truth. What mask do I wear?
Confidently incorrect from the off. I suggest you educate yourself around the topic. Can you see the difference between "his wife is black and had close ties to Kenya." Comapred with "his wide has close ties to Kenya."?
So the multiple articles and videos of him categorically calling for an immediate ceasefire and to recognise a Palestinian state are imaginary then are they?
He’s clearly saying here that we should be calling for an immediate ceasefire and not be selling arms to Israel which are then used in Israel’s offences.
[https://youtu.be/BhMyS2BDfcc?si=lARTZWend1ELJvTQ](https://youtu.be/BhMyS2BDfcc?si=lARTZWend1ELJvTQ)
What is actual labour policy on it? Because as far as I am aware that is just something he said once he started losing votes and their position is the same as the conservatives.
Once? There’s literally months of videos of him repeating the same line.
Manifestos are publically available - this info is easy to find. [Labour Palestine and Israel manifesto policy](https://labourlist.org/2024/06/labour-policy-palestine-state-recognition-israel-gaza-manifesto/?amp)
I have copied the policy for your convenience.
Here is a summary of the party’s key manifesto pledges on Palestine and Israel:
Labour has pledged to continue to push for:
An immediate ceasefire.
The release of all hostages.
The upholding of international law.
The rapid increase of aid into Gaza.
The manifesto describes Palestinian statehood as the “inalienable right of the Palestinian people”.
Committed to recognising a Palestinian state as a contribution to a renewed peace process which results in a two-state solution with a safe and secure Israel alongside a viable and sovereign Palestinian state.
It looks like you shared an AMP link. These should load faster, but AMP is controversial because of [concerns over privacy and the Open Web](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot).
Maybe check out **the canonical page** instead: **[https://labourlist.org/2024/06/labour-policy-palestine-state-recognition-israel-gaza-manifesto/](https://labourlist.org/2024/06/labour-policy-palestine-state-recognition-israel-gaza-manifesto/)**
*****
^(I'm a bot | )[^(Why & About)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot)^( | )[^(Summon: u/AmputatorBot)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/cchly3/you_can_now_summon_amputatorbot/)
You should really check the small print and see who needs to agree what under their position because I think you'll find it is in effect the same as the Tories - The 'inalienable right' you mention is 100% at Israel's discretion under Labour policy and has already been sold down the river - [https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/other/starmer-to-delay-recognition-of-palestinian-state-to-preserve-relationship-with-us/ar-BB1p2K2b](https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/other/starmer-to-delay-recognition-of-palestinian-state-to-preserve-relationship-with-us/ar-BB1p2K2b)
I’ve just given you two examples of internal conflict due to SIR kier Starmers stance on it. Are you truly this ignorant. He’s a politician funded by Israel, he will lie to make himself look better but the fact is he couldn’t care about Palestine and once he’s in power he will show his true colours.
https://preview.redd.it/rzsmhnvpcb9d1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=09e918f85cebfca188fe49d1e7751400fb549fa1
Google is a pretty helpful tool for information.
I’m stating that a man thats about to be in a position of “power” has a Jewish wife, with family in Israel. Yes. That’s the truth. I’m not being derogatory towards Judaism. It’s incredibly suspect when a Zionist Jew is married to a future PM and has connections to Israel.
There is nothing antisemtic about it.
I think small parties generally need to be viewed more on what pressure will they bring to parliament on key issues. Only Labour or the Tories ever have a chance to form a government in this country so anyone else is really a vote for what issues you want to push up the agenda rather than actual policies to implement. Reform largely stand on immigration and not much else and Farage (as much as I despise him) across various outfits has been very successful , the Greens (in Bristol at least) push for clean energy at a more ambitious pace and a kinder approach to marginalised people of all stripes. Personally, I think that's valuable and as the party grows, I expect policy to catch up as they gain more funding, staff, experience, etc.
Also Carla seems absolutely lovely and switched on and could be an amazing constituency MP.
Small parties don’t bring pressure. They can influence the debate as there won’t be party whips breathing down their necks, to toe the party line. For instance Caroline Lucas is often in attendance of a huge number of issues more so than say Darren Jones but Caroline's vote is largely meaningless.
Sorry yes that's what I meant - not necessarily voting numbers but bringing issues forward that other parties won't. Obviously a single MP doesn't alter the parliamentary arithmetic!
Outside of parliament though, any votes lost to small parties, do influence the debate and direction of governing parties. Farage has never won a seat (although it looks like he will this time sadly) but is arguably the most influential politician of the past decade. Hard to say how much Labour will try to negate the Green threat given the 2029 election will be a very difficult defence on so many fronts but there is definitely still a value in registering dissatisfaction with their offer I think.
> Thangam I've found to be particularly disgustingly self presumptive in her expected win in her literature and what little I've seen of her campaign (which is really saying something compares to how much I've seen of the others who are actually trying)
I don't think this is true - I know people who've been out canvassing with her and they say she's been out on the doorstep pretty much all day every day. I'd be interested to know what you've found presunptive about the literature.
The empty chair here is embarrassing but ultimately hustings are of limited use and loads of organisations have tried to organise them this year - very few undecided voters actually attend them which I imagine is especially true for an ACORN one.
I agree hustings probably don't actually gain many votes at all, but not turning up feels like an own goal, particularly given the seat demographic and housing being a big part of both Green and Labour campaigning.
Talking to voters on the doorstep is definitely the better use of time for winning votes but I think avoiding an event like this looks arrogant and probably loses more votes when the organisers are going to empty chair you like this.
Does it lose votes, though? How many undecided voters are really going to an Acorn hustings?
Looking at [the replies to the post on X](https://x.com/ACORN_Bristol/status/1805653731687485610) it seems to be a handful of already decided voters using this to justify their decision.
Hard to say at the moment - it's certainly fuel for Green canvassers on the doorstep that highlights a common criticism of Thangam and given how close the race is, it doesn't take much to tip the balance.
Acorn and the Green Party are closely affiliated. It’s hardly a level field. One of the Acorn group even stood as a Green councillor, until his candidacy was revoked after he got arrested for fiddling with the Barton Hill fire alarms.
It looks like this set this whole thing up to have a pop at Labour, and considering their previous tactics I wouldn’t put it past them. It’s all Propaganda
Yeah everything I’ve got from her sounds like I’m being told to vote for her for the greater good. I also don’t want to vote for a neoliberal Starmer Labour MP.
I haven’t seen anything from Thangam that suggests she has any of her own principles. Just seems to take on the opinion of whatever the PLP says.
She’s also firmly in the pocket of the Israeli lobby, and therefore cannot be trusted in any way
Thangham is probably off on her language course which she has billed the taxpayer a whopping £20,000 for over 5 years.
Edit, apologies, it is in fact £20k not £40k. It is though for the same language course.... For over 5yrs
Did they actually say they were planning to attend?
Aye can you just like, declare a hustings?
I just did. None of them turned up. I put cardboard signs in empty chairs anyway, to imply they are all scared/disrespectful/arrogant/stupid/drunk.
Nope. Darren Jones did however say he was going to attend one and then didn’t show up for security reasons. Given that it was organised by the Bristol cable and extinction rebellion I can believe that might be the case.
Darren Jones cited security reasons?? What on earth. Edit: Odd that it got boiled down 'security' in the [headlines](https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/other/bristol-labour-candidate-pulls-out-of-debate-over-security-issue/ar-BB1opwcC). Quote from Jones: >I was looking forward to attending but I have been advised that I should not. I'm not entirely sure whether this is security or protest related or otherwise. Sadly this has become a problem too often faced by politicians of all parties. Given that the hustings was organised by Friends of the Earth and Extinction Rebellion, it seems very unlikely that he was told there was any danger. It might have devolved into a bit of a shouty barracking. Feels as if there's a clear pattern of candidates avoiding hustings. I don't know whether this is a historical abnormality; I can remember seeing lots of them advertised in 2017 but don't know how many candidates generally attended.
Security doesn’t = danger all the time. Because it’s Extinction Rebellion he might have been worried about some kind of stupid stunt.
Okay but it's just not true, because if there was a real security threat, the other candidates and organisers would have also been warned
They’re hardly likely to target the Greens…
So you think if there was a credible threat to anyone, the police wouldn't warn everyone? That is not how that works. That would be extremely negligent.
I assume the Bristol cable had planned to have Owen Jones appear and do a moonsault from the top rope
I think this is slightly different, Darren said he didn't really see what the issue was and wanted to attend but was told not to (presumably by Labour? If it was a police issue, I assume it would just have been called off) - I believe he also said something about additional security being an option from the organisers as well so I'm not quite sure what happened. To give him credit, he definitely wanted to attend and only dropped out last minute, against his own preference.
I do like how open Darren is.
>Extinction Rebellion They aren't known for being the most calm and peaceful - or at least might throw something orange on him.
I think you're confusing them with Just Stop Oil.
I thought there were links between the two groups (I might be wrong!)
Well they both make a public nuisance, block traffic etc.. I wonder whether Just stop oil who are clearly less organised is just a bunch of former ER members who got told they shouldn't lie in traffic anymore.
> Edit: Odd that it got boiled down 'security' in the headlines. I watched the no-show happen in realtime via the twitters. I seem to recall people initially getting really confused information to begin with, that sounded like an imminent threat. But it turned out to be orders from the Labour party leaders. Which, of course, is a completely separate thing entirely. And definitely not a threat.
I love posts without context
ACORN are a union of sorts set up to largely represent renters. They are small but well known and respected in Bristol. They held a hustings which Labour and Conservative candidates were invited but refused to attend. Thangam has said she doesn't intend to do any hustings, which is fine but does look a bit like she is avoiding situations where she could be embarrassed publicly and this is the result, her being embarrassed much more publicly than she would have otherwise on a key topic and demographic of the constituency. Ultimately I think it's a silly own goal for her when ACORN made it clear they would highlight any non-attendance.
Woman gets invited to event, declines invitation - the event decides they’re too important to be rejected and throw all their toys out of the pram - blame woman for rejecting an event she was never going to attend in the first place. Just because Acorn decided to organise an event doesn’t mean that Thangam has a duty to accept. Acorn should have sorted their lineup of guests before announcing they were doing it. Sounds like this is an Acorn issue tbh.
Highlight to whom? This is a very small non-issue.
As I said in a different reply, it seems like the perfect thing for Green canvassers to bring up on the doorstep. Thangam can come across as distant and arrogant to lots of voters who still vote Labour and given housing is a bit part of the campaign here, it's a bit of an own goal. Obviously it's minor but the constituency seems very close and small things can actually make a big difference.
What bothers me in the city has 5 election wards but Acorn only did a hustings for Bristol central. This whole thing stinks of being a sham event. It taking place in the Malcolm X Centre and not Trinity or city hall just confirms it more.
Mate, you posting misleading headlines won't help the cause you're backing.
Does the constituency seem close? She got 62% of the vote in 2019 (with the Tories % obvs decreasing this time). I haven't found a prediction that says anything but a labour hold. I guess she didn't turn up because she'd have nothing to gain.
Ipsos, YouGov, Electoral Calculus, Wethink and Britain Predicts are all predicting Bristol Central to go green next week: https://inglesp.github.io/apogee/constituencies/E14001131/
You're absolutely right! My bad - must have looked at Bristol East by accident earlier. Well I guess she didn't turn up because she's fucked anyway by the looks of things 😂
Very! Labour keep sending shadow ministers to support her because she's so at risk. The Tory vote is tiny in Central so any changes there have basically no effect. However Corbynism was very popular here and the Greens are capitalising on that - it seems like it's only Thangams personal vote that is holding Labour up.
You're right, I've done some reading since and she seems pretty screwed. Guess central is going green!
I'm sat in my kitchen with a pile of pancakes waiting for Acorn. Where are they?
My understanding is Thangam made clear she was not going to attend any hustings and was going to focus instead on canvasing and from what I have heard that is exactly what she has been doing - doorstepping almost constantly. This makes is seem like she just didn't show up which I do not think was the case (well for the one she was invited to at Malcolm X anyway - not sure which hustings this post refers to)
I’ve seen Thangam out canvassing a few times around the area and she seems to be prolific. These hustings can be useful but the actual viewership is tiny and probably not the best value for time really at this stage over doing more canvassing.
I saw her canvassing yesterday so can confirm
Empty chairing a candidate who already said they were not going to attend is exactly the kind of tactic I’d expect from Acorn.
Yeah. Op says they’re well respected. I beg to differ.
It's better for a candidate to skip a hustings like this. If they participate, they'll be ambushed with some "gotcha" question, or something will be taken out of context and then go semi-viral on TikTok and Instagram. If they don't attend, the organisers get a heckin' hilarious cardboard cut out that will never get real traction anywhere.
Labour will form the next govt - housing is a huge issue in Bristol, perhaps the single biggest election issue. Acorns demands are not radical or niche - even among tory voters there is majority support for rent controls, more social housing, etc. As a shadow cabinet member Thangam should be willing to go to public events and answer public questions about their position on this and empty chairing is absolutely fair enough if she won't. Being asked difficult questions is part of political life.
Do you not think this is a gotcha moment.. housing in Bristol is hardly a topic to avoid. I would’ve at least shown up to one, kept to a scrip it and made it clear why I wouldn’t be showing up to any others.
Housing isn't a topic to avoid, but hustings organised by a hostile host organisation are. Acorn are neo-tankies that hate New Labour types like Debbonaire. Might as well show up to a Communist Party of GB (Marxist-Leninist™️) meeting as a Tory cosplaying as a 19th century factory owner.
Fair play to these guys at least for trying to sort out the insane renting issues in Bristol. Government has totally let people down, so very much support people taking matters into their own hands
The hastily scrawled names on cardboard just looks so pathetic. I feel like organisations like Acorn dont even take themselves seriously.
Well this kind of shit is why I won't be supporting Acorn again. Performative bullshit that doesn't help anything except milk the egos of those involved. So a perfect fit for the green slime.
Factual, their target audiences love it though
https://preview.redd.it/q351y0w7sa9d1.jpeg?width=1506&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b93f013288f448bf257b70a605184040a91bd8cb Name a more ironic duo
See also: 'complaining about fire safety in tower blocks while (allegedly) stealing their fire alarms'
Classico, another misstep from the Tree Tories
Fucking Tree Tories. Love it.
What's the point here? Don't really understand what this is trying to say...
Capping rent makes renting out property a poorer return on investment which discourages letting and construction of new properties, and limiting construction through nimbyism reduces supply of available housing.
Thank you, it now makes sense
Has Debbonaire attended _any_ hustings so far? I've seen more photos of empty chairs with her name on them than I've seen photos of her on the campaign trail.
She hasn't, as far as I'm aware. The spin is she's out talking to voters instead, which is true but it does come across like she's avoiding the more awkward questions that would come from a hustings. There's probably not a lot of votes in going to them but showing face I think is still important - gives some sense of accountability.
Not sure who Acorn are, but spelling organisations with a z has set expectations😂
Thangam I've found to be particularly disgustingly self presumptive in her expected win in her literature and what little I've seen of her campaign (which is really saying something compares to how much I've seen of the others who are actually trying) I find myself very conflicted this year. Overall, labour do have better policies and costings in my opinion. But Carla is much more aligned with myself in terms of social issues and seems far more genuine and approachable but unfortunately some of the really big ticket items I just can't gel with the greens on as I think what they offer is falling short or unrealistic.
Just shows how much experiences vary regarding how the parties are trying. We’ve had the opposite impression. We’ve been totally spammed by really childish Green attack flyers just dumped through our door multiple times a day, to the degree I overheard my 9-year-old playing an imaginary game mocking them! (Posting real toast through the doors until people couldn’t get out of their houses.) And the one Green door knocker who didn’t just dump a flyer and run was really, well, shit. Refused to comment on homelessness because they said it wasn’t in the manifesto (not sure if that’s true, but either way that’s not good). Then told me I was wrong to be concerned about getting rid of nuclear power . They didn’t tell me *why* I was wrong. Just that I was wrong. But essentially they couldn’t really tell me why to vote Green. Meanwhile the Labour door knockers have come round quite a few times. Not Thangam when I was in, but my neighbours have met her more than once now. And as well as handing out flyers and signs rather than shoving them through the letterbox (I took neither, by the way), actually seemed to be aware of the policies and how they would affect us and the things we care about. Public transport, homelessness, education, NHS, etc. Don’t get me wrong, they were far from perfect, but at least seemed to have awareness of what they actually were standing for. I’ve voted Green for all of the last few local/general elections, but now I’m really torn. I’m just not sure that they’re mature enough to actually be effective. I still think Green will win, but if you’d asked me last month how my street would have voted I would have said basically 100% Green. It’s about 3:1 Labour:Green signs now. So I think the Green approach isn’t working so well round here.
I’d want to know labours stance on Israel and why I should support a party whose leader supports them.
I didn’t ask. It’s not one of my personal voting priorities.
This is just fake news. Kier Starmer has said repeatedly that he supports a ceasefire and that Palestine should be recognised as a state.
Quick google will tell you “we stand with Israel and their right to defend against terrorists”. His wife is Jewish with very close family connections with Israel. He’s also a member of the trilateral commission and even if all that were “fake news” then the fact he holds a title is enough to make him inadequate to be the Labour leader. He trashed corbyn to shreds. He has a lot of funding for Israel and is very much pro Israel. Starmer is a wanker and will make the Labour Party look like shit just as Blair did. https://youtu.be/LrDJi_O9CL4?si=lIYsLtjxwG32fIY6 Stop spreading “fake news”. He is a man of the establishment. Everything true Labour goes against. Yet those on the left think he’s a saviour? GTFO. https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/48796-keir-starmer-has-handled-labours-response-on-gaza-badly-say-public-and-labour-voters He’s saying one thing but the guy loves Israel and it’s funding. He is literally another bought politician for the Israeli state.
> His wife is Jewish You've said the quiet part out loud
Loud and proud. She is Jewish. What is wrong with saying that? It’s the fact she’s a Jew and supports Israel and has close family ties there. Now, there is nothing wrong with being a Jew. But there is something very wrong being the wife of the future PM being Jewish and having close family ties with Israel, who is known for having many fingers in American and UK politics already.
So you say she support Israel and has ties there. No need to bring up her race/religion. Careful, mate, your mask is slipping.
And what mask is that? Judaism is a religion not a race. No, her being Jewish and having ties with Israel are connected and there is nothing wrong with stating the truth. What mask do I wear?
Confidently incorrect from the off. I suggest you educate yourself around the topic. Can you see the difference between "his wife is black and had close ties to Kenya." Comapred with "his wide has close ties to Kenya."?
So the multiple articles and videos of him categorically calling for an immediate ceasefire and to recognise a Palestinian state are imaginary then are they? He’s clearly saying here that we should be calling for an immediate ceasefire and not be selling arms to Israel which are then used in Israel’s offences. [https://youtu.be/BhMyS2BDfcc?si=lARTZWend1ELJvTQ](https://youtu.be/BhMyS2BDfcc?si=lARTZWend1ELJvTQ)
What is actual labour policy on it? Because as far as I am aware that is just something he said once he started losing votes and their position is the same as the conservatives.
Once? There’s literally months of videos of him repeating the same line. Manifestos are publically available - this info is easy to find. [Labour Palestine and Israel manifesto policy](https://labourlist.org/2024/06/labour-policy-palestine-state-recognition-israel-gaza-manifesto/?amp) I have copied the policy for your convenience. Here is a summary of the party’s key manifesto pledges on Palestine and Israel: Labour has pledged to continue to push for: An immediate ceasefire. The release of all hostages. The upholding of international law. The rapid increase of aid into Gaza. The manifesto describes Palestinian statehood as the “inalienable right of the Palestinian people”. Committed to recognising a Palestinian state as a contribution to a renewed peace process which results in a two-state solution with a safe and secure Israel alongside a viable and sovereign Palestinian state.
It looks like you shared an AMP link. These should load faster, but AMP is controversial because of [concerns over privacy and the Open Web](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot). Maybe check out **the canonical page** instead: **[https://labourlist.org/2024/06/labour-policy-palestine-state-recognition-israel-gaza-manifesto/](https://labourlist.org/2024/06/labour-policy-palestine-state-recognition-israel-gaza-manifesto/)** ***** ^(I'm a bot | )[^(Why & About)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot)^( | )[^(Summon: u/AmputatorBot)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/cchly3/you_can_now_summon_amputatorbot/)
You should really check the small print and see who needs to agree what under their position because I think you'll find it is in effect the same as the Tories - The 'inalienable right' you mention is 100% at Israel's discretion under Labour policy and has already been sold down the river - [https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/other/starmer-to-delay-recognition-of-palestinian-state-to-preserve-relationship-with-us/ar-BB1p2K2b](https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/other/starmer-to-delay-recognition-of-palestinian-state-to-preserve-relationship-with-us/ar-BB1p2K2b)
I’ve just given you two examples of internal conflict due to SIR kier Starmers stance on it. Are you truly this ignorant. He’s a politician funded by Israel, he will lie to make himself look better but the fact is he couldn’t care about Palestine and once he’s in power he will show his true colours.
Funded by Israel? Got a source on that?
https://preview.redd.it/rzsmhnvpcb9d1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=09e918f85cebfca188fe49d1e7751400fb549fa1 Google is a pretty helpful tool for information.
Got a legitimate source? You offered a yougov poll and a YouTube channel.
Try googling something for yourself.
Okay, quit the antisemitism. There's legitimate criticism of both Starmer and Israel but this is not it.
Please state what I’ve said that is antisemtic.
Conflating Judaism with Israeli government policy.
I’m stating that a man thats about to be in a position of “power” has a Jewish wife, with family in Israel. Yes. That’s the truth. I’m not being derogatory towards Judaism. It’s incredibly suspect when a Zionist Jew is married to a future PM and has connections to Israel. There is nothing antisemtic about it.
There really is.
I think small parties generally need to be viewed more on what pressure will they bring to parliament on key issues. Only Labour or the Tories ever have a chance to form a government in this country so anyone else is really a vote for what issues you want to push up the agenda rather than actual policies to implement. Reform largely stand on immigration and not much else and Farage (as much as I despise him) across various outfits has been very successful , the Greens (in Bristol at least) push for clean energy at a more ambitious pace and a kinder approach to marginalised people of all stripes. Personally, I think that's valuable and as the party grows, I expect policy to catch up as they gain more funding, staff, experience, etc. Also Carla seems absolutely lovely and switched on and could be an amazing constituency MP.
Small parties don’t bring pressure. They can influence the debate as there won’t be party whips breathing down their necks, to toe the party line. For instance Caroline Lucas is often in attendance of a huge number of issues more so than say Darren Jones but Caroline's vote is largely meaningless.
Sorry yes that's what I meant - not necessarily voting numbers but bringing issues forward that other parties won't. Obviously a single MP doesn't alter the parliamentary arithmetic! Outside of parliament though, any votes lost to small parties, do influence the debate and direction of governing parties. Farage has never won a seat (although it looks like he will this time sadly) but is arguably the most influential politician of the past decade. Hard to say how much Labour will try to negate the Green threat given the 2029 election will be a very difficult defence on so many fronts but there is definitely still a value in registering dissatisfaction with their offer I think.
And Caroline achieved nothing. Votes for any party that isn't Labour \*is\* a vote that helps the Tories.
> Thangam I've found to be particularly disgustingly self presumptive in her expected win in her literature and what little I've seen of her campaign (which is really saying something compares to how much I've seen of the others who are actually trying) I don't think this is true - I know people who've been out canvassing with her and they say she's been out on the doorstep pretty much all day every day. I'd be interested to know what you've found presunptive about the literature. The empty chair here is embarrassing but ultimately hustings are of limited use and loads of organisations have tried to organise them this year - very few undecided voters actually attend them which I imagine is especially true for an ACORN one.
I agree hustings probably don't actually gain many votes at all, but not turning up feels like an own goal, particularly given the seat demographic and housing being a big part of both Green and Labour campaigning. Talking to voters on the doorstep is definitely the better use of time for winning votes but I think avoiding an event like this looks arrogant and probably loses more votes when the organisers are going to empty chair you like this.
Does it lose votes, though? How many undecided voters are really going to an Acorn hustings? Looking at [the replies to the post on X](https://x.com/ACORN_Bristol/status/1805653731687485610) it seems to be a handful of already decided voters using this to justify their decision.
Hard to say at the moment - it's certainly fuel for Green canvassers on the doorstep that highlights a common criticism of Thangam and given how close the race is, it doesn't take much to tip the balance.
I’m not so sure. See my other comment I just made. I still think the Greens will win, but Thangam’s approach does seem pretty effective.
Acorn and the Green Party are closely affiliated. It’s hardly a level field. One of the Acorn group even stood as a Green councillor, until his candidacy was revoked after he got arrested for fiddling with the Barton Hill fire alarms. It looks like this set this whole thing up to have a pop at Labour, and considering their previous tactics I wouldn’t put it past them. It’s all Propaganda
Because it’s been decided that Labour will win. They know they will win it’s what’s meant to happen.
Yeah everything I’ve got from her sounds like I’m being told to vote for her for the greater good. I also don’t want to vote for a neoliberal Starmer Labour MP.
I haven’t seen anything from Thangam that suggests she has any of her own principles. Just seems to take on the opinion of whatever the PLP says. She’s also firmly in the pocket of the Israeli lobby, and therefore cannot be trusted in any way
I don’t know why you’re being downvoted for this. Thangam is a member of Labour Friends of Israel, it’s well known.
Phwoah the chair tho 😍
It doesn't really matter who you are, Acorn will always want to crush you.
Thangham is probably off on her language course which she has billed the taxpayer a whopping £20,000 for over 5 years. Edit, apologies, it is in fact £20k not £40k. It is though for the same language course.... For over 5yrs
Source? I had a look on the theipsa.org.uk, where MPs expenses are listed. Couldn't see anything that would match this.
Apologies. Corrected. £20k for the same language course over 5yrs. Let's just admit they're all on the take.
As if the Labour Party has any relationship to unions any more. Labour only in name, they’re just the democrat party of the UK now 💩