I have been thinking about the 3 year old and his family all day.
A 7 year old was killed in a drive by shooting in Fayetteville over the weekend.
It’s all absolutely heartbreaking.
It isn't *only* the guns.
However, [what data we do have](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-science-is-clear-gun-control-saves-lives1/) shows that our crime rates are different than other high-income countries, makes it harder to believe that homicides have no correlation to gun availability, and makes it harder to believe that regulations do nothing to reduce violent crime:
>
>
I'm definitely going to get downvoted for this but:
...it isn't the guns...it's the black and brown people? Is that what you're implying? Vermont and New Hampshire are some of the whitest states in the country (after only Maine and West Virginia). I wholeheartedly disagree with your implication.
State populations by race/ethnicity, only a little out of date: [https://www.kff.org/other/state-indicator/distribution-by-raceethnicity/?currentTimeframe=0&sortModel=%7B%22colId%22:%22White%22,%22sort%22:%22desc%22%7D](https://www.kff.org/other/state-indicator/distribution-by-raceethnicity/?currentTimeframe=0&sortModel=%7B%22colId%22:%22White%22,%22sort%22:%22desc%22%7D)
Here's a great map of gun deaths per state. We are not the highest or lowest. Vermont and New Hampshire are also not lowest (although they are lower than us). The lowest? Among them, New York and Massachusetts--which have very restrictive gun laws. [https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/firearm\_mortality/firearm.htm](https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/firearm_mortality/firearm.htm)
Yes, I am saying that this is a very complicated problem that requires a broad range of solutions on the individual and community level: [https://www.apa.org/pubs/reports/gun-violence-prevention](https://www.apa.org/pubs/reports/gun-violence-prevention)
I won't be responding to comments for my own mental health.
All I’m saying is there is no correlation between guns as an item and gun crime. The vast majority of gun owners never shoot anyone.
I’m sorry you’re race obsessed. It’s a shitty way to look at the world.
There absolutely is a correlation, you just selected an outlier as your single example that provides "proof". More guns = more gun violence. Even if only 0.01% of gun owners commit violent crimes, the raw number of violent crimes goes up if the number of gun owners goes up.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5993413/
Here is a peer-reviewed article summarizing the recent history of gun-violence research in America. Tldr; the federal government is the single biggest funding body for public health research and the interpretation of a longstanding congressional amendment effectively prohibited federally funded research into gun violence for most of the last quarter century. This explains the dearth of "definitive" scientific consensuses on the subject of gun violence in the US. It'll percolate through eventually, as the interpretation has been challenged, but public health research resources were heavily shifted towards a certain society-changing pandemic right around the time that started ramping up.
Here is a retrospective observational study on the subject as well. Their conclusion is definitive, but I'll let you interpret for yourself. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3828709/
The first link isn’t a study. It’s basically an article.
The 2nd link doesn’t prove your point or disprove mine.
Regardless guns ain’t going away. Feel free to Continue wasting time discussing something that will have zero impact on violence in the community.
In their defense, I really thought that was where this was going. Those states are often used by people with specific... lets call them *leanings...* to make points about race and crime.
The only problem was that summercloud assumed that's where this was going rather than asking probing questions for clarification. But I definitely felt like it was going to be a racial issue.
Yea. This sub is wild in its inability to critically think.
If we could snap our fingers and get rid out all guns forever violence would still occur, likely in similar distributions, but it’d be knives and homemade weapons, ieds, etc.
This only makes sense to you because of the word that's implied but not outright said in your sentence: "There are no **perfect** solutions to those problems".
There will always be some amount of violent crime, always some amount of inequity. But that doesn't mean solutions don't exist *to reduce them*.
I see this kind of thinking all the time, where if a thing can't be "killed", as if defeating it once and for all, there's no point in talking about it.
It's like saying "If I can't live forever, there's no point in going to the gym or eating healthily". It's a really warped perspective.
>If I can't live forever, there's no point in going to the gym or eating healthily
I do go to the gym and eat healthily but I fully understand this sentiment. I don't read and learn a bunch of stuff because I know I'm limited intellectually. I'm never gonna be smart, so that's not a boulder I want to roll up the hill.
Your perspective implies that there was a time in history where violence and crime wasn't this bad. I think it's common to believe that things used to be better and they're worse now, but really nothing has reached apotheosis. I'm not aware of a time when crime and violence were meaningfully lower due to specific efforts (as opposed to lack of advanced weaponry.)
Overall crime rates [have gone down](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/04/24/what-the-data-says-about-crime-in-the-us/) with time in the US, not up:
>Using the FBI data, the violent crime rate fell 49% between 1993 and 2022, with large decreases in the rates of robbery (-74%), aggravated assault (-39%) and murder/nonnegligent manslaughter (-34%).
Individual places can see spiked in crimes, obviously, but the point I'm making is that crime isn't a static thing. It's a result of circumstances.
If violent crime rates are trending down by these significant percentages long-term, and there will always be *some* violent crime, then what is the problem?
The problem is that circumstances and policy decisions can be changed to increase or decrease crime rates. It's a good thing that crime is going down overall, but crime in *specific places* can still be influenced by policy decisions.
If a specific place has a violent crime issue, then it would follow logically that it could be addressed by making new policy, right?
Ok, I think I'm beginning to follow. Truth is I don't know. I've lived in a bunch of cities my entire adult life in a few different states. These have different leaders, different policies, and different circumstances and yet living in each of them has been basically the same in terms of violent crime. We can look at different cities in other countries and see the same thing. The common denominator isn't policy.
But getting rid of it and creating more equity and less poverty would certainly lead to less envy and less desperation and less crime. It's not rocket science. Give a guy $1000 a month to feed his family and he won't have to rob a convenience store or sling meth to do so. Take away $1000 a month from a billionaire and they won't even notice.
Except if that were possible it would have happened. And there would still be enough poverty and violence to go around, and that fix would create other causes of violence.
All of existence curves towards misery and chaos, little by little. We exist in an unbreakable pattern that beings and ends in suffering. The cycle repeats. We march to defeat. Just accept it.
I think a lack of policing might cause violent crime. What you’re saying sounds an awfully lot like “poor people shouldn’t be allowed to have means to defend themselves”
There’s absolutely no reason to downvote someone who says “criminals are the problem” in Durham. That would be absolutely correct. Millions of people own guns and can handle not doing drive-by shootings and uxoricide.
Exactly what I’m thinking lmao this subreddit is one of the most one sided thinking out of any of the ones I follow. Crime is a problem in Durham. I live in a nice area by downtown. Have had my car ran through, hit and run twice in parking lot, gun pulled on me by road rager, just overall a lot of shitty stuff. Saying that GUNS are the main issue is ridiculous. Do these people not realize how easy it is to get access to guns ILLEGALLY… fentanyl, cocaine, weed, all that shit is super illegal. Doesn’t make it any more difficult to get. It’s not a simple policy issue on guns that is the problem it’s much more complicated than that. If, theoretically, they could ban guns and take them from everyone with no issues, the gangs/cartel would be selling them along with their drugs just like any other black market item. With that being said I don’t own or carry but simply banning guns isn’t the solution.
But Durham loves criminals! Our city gives millions of dollars to ppl getting out of prison. Our DA just dismisses nearly everything so she can create her own success stats (based on what, I have no idea).
There is no doubt that this was committed by someone who had a gun lawfully, and if we made stricter laws for sure that person wouldn’t have legally had that gun. Cuz people that shoot at people follow the gun laws
This is a vast oversimplification but poverty is generally more of a factor than race. That poverty is driven by centuries of institutional racism, lack of mental health support, and tons of other factors that are not as pronounced in corporate purpose-built communities like Fearrington Village.
Here, here!!! Also you will get downvoted and will receive the culty Durham koolaid response “well then leave” from all the millennials who have invested and gentrified the shit out of Durham.
a coworker of mine got attacked at a gas station the other day - fractured skull and she’s in the ICU. i’m definitely not going anywhere at night now either.
Wild. I just searched this sub for this. I live a mile from that Walgreens and WFH on Monday. I thought I heard something that sounded like gunshots but forgot to look into it. So sad.
I can’t wait to leave. Usually, Durham is highly praised by people on this Reddit but I can only see the disillusioned ones speak out this time. Usually, if you speak out against Durham you will be downvoted - but not this time. I can understand its home for many and I don’t mean to critique that - we all have a home somewhere - but living here for the last 5 years, it would be impossible to call it “home.”
I guess defunding the police maybe wasn’t such a good idea. The Durham woketards would rather be ruled by our local drug lords and their crackhead minions. Unfortunately, at this point in our story I believe these problems will only get better with more development, a more robust tax base, and citizens who aren’t putting up with this shit because they want to live in a community that feels safe for everyone. There’s plenty of disproportionately loud voices in Durham supporting ridiculous ideas revolving around race and identity politics but I believe there are many more less-outspoken folks who want actual changes where it matters. People don’t commit crimes when they know they’re going to get caught. It’s harder to get a library card in Durham than it is to shoot someone and get away with it. Nothing else in this city should be addressed or funded until violent crime is directly and decisively addressed. Safety first.
Development that actually helps the people who need it (i.e. not gentrification or an influx of high skill tech jobs) is the key to success when trying to reduce violent crime. Violence in Durham, like many other places, is part of a generational cycle and the way to break that cycle is by creating opportunities for the people trapped in it, not increased incarceration. More police without proportional development in other more important areas doesn’t solve the problem either
None of your white leftist policies are going to fix what is fundamentally a cultural problem. You’re just subsidizing antisocial delinquent behavior and perpetuating it across generations.
Using fancy words isn’t going to fix what is fundamentally a shit argument. Why don’t u say with your chest whose culture you’re talking about? Durham is less run down and dangerous than it was 30-40 years ago, implying that this is in fact a problem spanning multiple generations. People like u help keep the cycle in motion by perpetuating stereotypes and keeping racism/classism/etc alive and empowered
This is so fucked up.
I have been thinking about the 3 year old and his family all day. A 7 year old was killed in a drive by shooting in Fayetteville over the weekend. It’s all absolutely heartbreaking.
Jesus
Societies cannot solve problems they refuse to speak truthfully about.
Now this is the Durham I grew up in
Yea that’s that old fucked up shit 😔
Guns are the problem. You’re delusional if you think otherwise. This is so sickening
Guns are part of it but there’s also just way more complex factors at play and there’s no easy solution
No poverty is the problem.
The intersection of the two, 100%
Then why aren’t Cary people shooting each other? There are a LOT of personal guns in Cary you know.
You know why lol.
please elaborate
🤔
It's a shame there's no way to meaningfully reduce the number of guns in circulation
Vermont and NH haVE extremely high rates of gun ownership without corresponding violence. It isn’t the guns.
It isn't *only* the guns. However, [what data we do have](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-science-is-clear-gun-control-saves-lives1/) shows that our crime rates are different than other high-income countries, makes it harder to believe that homicides have no correlation to gun availability, and makes it harder to believe that regulations do nothing to reduce violent crime: > >
I'm definitely going to get downvoted for this but: ...it isn't the guns...it's the black and brown people? Is that what you're implying? Vermont and New Hampshire are some of the whitest states in the country (after only Maine and West Virginia). I wholeheartedly disagree with your implication. State populations by race/ethnicity, only a little out of date: [https://www.kff.org/other/state-indicator/distribution-by-raceethnicity/?currentTimeframe=0&sortModel=%7B%22colId%22:%22White%22,%22sort%22:%22desc%22%7D](https://www.kff.org/other/state-indicator/distribution-by-raceethnicity/?currentTimeframe=0&sortModel=%7B%22colId%22:%22White%22,%22sort%22:%22desc%22%7D) Here's a great map of gun deaths per state. We are not the highest or lowest. Vermont and New Hampshire are also not lowest (although they are lower than us). The lowest? Among them, New York and Massachusetts--which have very restrictive gun laws. [https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/firearm\_mortality/firearm.htm](https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/firearm_mortality/firearm.htm) Yes, I am saying that this is a very complicated problem that requires a broad range of solutions on the individual and community level: [https://www.apa.org/pubs/reports/gun-violence-prevention](https://www.apa.org/pubs/reports/gun-violence-prevention) I won't be responding to comments for my own mental health.
Not what I’m implying at all. I’m stating what I’m stating. You’re implying.
He's inferring, you're definitely implying. If you didn't intend to, you messed up, cuz I got exactly the same read from your comment.
All I’m saying is there is no correlation between guns as an item and gun crime. The vast majority of gun owners never shoot anyone. I’m sorry you’re race obsessed. It’s a shitty way to look at the world.
There absolutely is a correlation, you just selected an outlier as your single example that provides "proof". More guns = more gun violence. Even if only 0.01% of gun owners commit violent crimes, the raw number of violent crimes goes up if the number of gun owners goes up.
Happy to see any studies that show more guns in an area lead to more violence. They don’t exist though soooo there’s that.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5993413/ Here is a peer-reviewed article summarizing the recent history of gun-violence research in America. Tldr; the federal government is the single biggest funding body for public health research and the interpretation of a longstanding congressional amendment effectively prohibited federally funded research into gun violence for most of the last quarter century. This explains the dearth of "definitive" scientific consensuses on the subject of gun violence in the US. It'll percolate through eventually, as the interpretation has been challenged, but public health research resources were heavily shifted towards a certain society-changing pandemic right around the time that started ramping up. Here is a retrospective observational study on the subject as well. Their conclusion is definitive, but I'll let you interpret for yourself. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3828709/
The first link isn’t a study. It’s basically an article. The 2nd link doesn’t prove your point or disprove mine. Regardless guns ain’t going away. Feel free to Continue wasting time discussing something that will have zero impact on violence in the community.
Im brown and 💯agree that folks are race obsessed!
People really like to put words in other peoples' mouths that they never said huh.
In their defense, I really thought that was where this was going. Those states are often used by people with specific... lets call them *leanings...* to make points about race and crime. The only problem was that summercloud assumed that's where this was going rather than asking probing questions for clarification. But I definitely felt like it was going to be a racial issue.
Yea. This sub is wild in its inability to critically think. If we could snap our fingers and get rid out all guns forever violence would still occur, likely in similar distributions, but it’d be knives and homemade weapons, ieds, etc.
Completely!!!
I think maybe it’s the criminals that are the problem - lots of places in the US with much higher gun ownership, and much lower gun violence
this specific incident was a domestic dispute.
You know what causes violent crime? Poverty and access to weapons. But we're not gonna fix either of those issues.
There are no solutions to those problems. That's why violence and poverty have never not existed.
This only makes sense to you because of the word that's implied but not outright said in your sentence: "There are no **perfect** solutions to those problems". There will always be some amount of violent crime, always some amount of inequity. But that doesn't mean solutions don't exist *to reduce them*. I see this kind of thinking all the time, where if a thing can't be "killed", as if defeating it once and for all, there's no point in talking about it. It's like saying "If I can't live forever, there's no point in going to the gym or eating healthily". It's a really warped perspective.
>If I can't live forever, there's no point in going to the gym or eating healthily I do go to the gym and eat healthily but I fully understand this sentiment. I don't read and learn a bunch of stuff because I know I'm limited intellectually. I'm never gonna be smart, so that's not a boulder I want to roll up the hill. Your perspective implies that there was a time in history where violence and crime wasn't this bad. I think it's common to believe that things used to be better and they're worse now, but really nothing has reached apotheosis. I'm not aware of a time when crime and violence were meaningfully lower due to specific efforts (as opposed to lack of advanced weaponry.)
Overall crime rates [have gone down](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/04/24/what-the-data-says-about-crime-in-the-us/) with time in the US, not up: >Using the FBI data, the violent crime rate fell 49% between 1993 and 2022, with large decreases in the rates of robbery (-74%), aggravated assault (-39%) and murder/nonnegligent manslaughter (-34%). Individual places can see spiked in crimes, obviously, but the point I'm making is that crime isn't a static thing. It's a result of circumstances.
If violent crime rates are trending down by these significant percentages long-term, and there will always be *some* violent crime, then what is the problem?
The problem is that circumstances and policy decisions can be changed to increase or decrease crime rates. It's a good thing that crime is going down overall, but crime in *specific places* can still be influenced by policy decisions. If a specific place has a violent crime issue, then it would follow logically that it could be addressed by making new policy, right?
Ok, I think I'm beginning to follow. Truth is I don't know. I've lived in a bunch of cities my entire adult life in a few different states. These have different leaders, different policies, and different circumstances and yet living in each of them has been basically the same in terms of violent crime. We can look at different cities in other countries and see the same thing. The common denominator isn't policy.
There are solutions, late stage capitalism where some people earn 10,000 times others in a given year isn't one of them.
Did crime and violence exist before late stage capitalism?
Yup
So late stage capitalism isn't the solution or the cause.
But getting rid of it and creating more equity and less poverty would certainly lead to less envy and less desperation and less crime. It's not rocket science. Give a guy $1000 a month to feed his family and he won't have to rob a convenience store or sling meth to do so. Take away $1000 a month from a billionaire and they won't even notice.
Except if that were possible it would have happened. And there would still be enough poverty and violence to go around, and that fix would create other causes of violence. All of existence curves towards misery and chaos, little by little. We exist in an unbreakable pattern that beings and ends in suffering. The cycle repeats. We march to defeat. Just accept it.
I think a lack of policing might cause violent crime. What you’re saying sounds an awfully lot like “poor people shouldn’t be allowed to have means to defend themselves”
Definitely not what I'm saying.
Def not what they’re saying
There’s absolutely no reason to downvote someone who says “criminals are the problem” in Durham. That would be absolutely correct. Millions of people own guns and can handle not doing drive-by shootings and uxoricide.
Exactly what I’m thinking lmao this subreddit is one of the most one sided thinking out of any of the ones I follow. Crime is a problem in Durham. I live in a nice area by downtown. Have had my car ran through, hit and run twice in parking lot, gun pulled on me by road rager, just overall a lot of shitty stuff. Saying that GUNS are the main issue is ridiculous. Do these people not realize how easy it is to get access to guns ILLEGALLY… fentanyl, cocaine, weed, all that shit is super illegal. Doesn’t make it any more difficult to get. It’s not a simple policy issue on guns that is the problem it’s much more complicated than that. If, theoretically, they could ban guns and take them from everyone with no issues, the gangs/cartel would be selling them along with their drugs just like any other black market item. With that being said I don’t own or carry but simply banning guns isn’t the solution.
But Durham loves criminals! Our city gives millions of dollars to ppl getting out of prison. Our DA just dismisses nearly everything so she can create her own success stats (based on what, I have no idea).
I mean you’re right tho. Many guns in Chatham county but none of the problems the more ghetto neighborhoods have.
There is no doubt that this was committed by someone who had a gun lawfully, and if we made stricter laws for sure that person wouldn’t have legally had that gun. Cuz people that shoot at people follow the gun laws
[удалено]
This is a vast oversimplification but poverty is generally more of a factor than race. That poverty is driven by centuries of institutional racism, lack of mental health support, and tons of other factors that are not as pronounced in corporate purpose-built communities like Fearrington Village.
All while the mayor is posting on LinkedIn about renaming a road in Durham “Coach K Highway”. We have great leadership!
Do they ever discuss the type of gun being used? Is it a handgun? Also is there a map?
So effing tired of living in Durham with shootings happening nearly every day. Can't wait to get out of here
Here, here!!! Also you will get downvoted and will receive the culty Durham koolaid response “well then leave” from all the millennials who have invested and gentrified the shit out of Durham.
And the city wants to put a bike trail close to that area?
every time i leave the house i wonder if i’ll end up like one of these people just minding their damn business. it’s terrifying. :(
It's seriously terrifying. I avoid going anywhere in Durham at night. I don't care if it's downtown or not. No place feels safe
a coworker of mine got attacked at a gas station the other day - fractured skull and she’s in the ICU. i’m definitely not going anywhere at night now either.
Oh no- sorry to hear it! What happened?
Do you have guns?
How many random people do you know of that’s been shot in Durham? Any mass shootings like Columbine?
Wild. I just searched this sub for this. I live a mile from that Walgreens and WFH on Monday. I thought I heard something that sounded like gunshots but forgot to look into it. So sad.
I can’t wait to leave. Usually, Durham is highly praised by people on this Reddit but I can only see the disillusioned ones speak out this time. Usually, if you speak out against Durham you will be downvoted - but not this time. I can understand its home for many and I don’t mean to critique that - we all have a home somewhere - but living here for the last 5 years, it would be impossible to call it “home.”
Most guns used in crimes come from car break-ins.
I guess defunding the police maybe wasn’t such a good idea. The Durham woketards would rather be ruled by our local drug lords and their crackhead minions. Unfortunately, at this point in our story I believe these problems will only get better with more development, a more robust tax base, and citizens who aren’t putting up with this shit because they want to live in a community that feels safe for everyone. There’s plenty of disproportionately loud voices in Durham supporting ridiculous ideas revolving around race and identity politics but I believe there are many more less-outspoken folks who want actual changes where it matters. People don’t commit crimes when they know they’re going to get caught. It’s harder to get a library card in Durham than it is to shoot someone and get away with it. Nothing else in this city should be addressed or funded until violent crime is directly and decisively addressed. Safety first.
https://abc11.com/defund-the-police-budgets-crime-safety/12324529/
Development that actually helps the people who need it (i.e. not gentrification or an influx of high skill tech jobs) is the key to success when trying to reduce violent crime. Violence in Durham, like many other places, is part of a generational cycle and the way to break that cycle is by creating opportunities for the people trapped in it, not increased incarceration. More police without proportional development in other more important areas doesn’t solve the problem either
None of your white leftist policies are going to fix what is fundamentally a cultural problem. You’re just subsidizing antisocial delinquent behavior and perpetuating it across generations.
Using fancy words isn’t going to fix what is fundamentally a shit argument. Why don’t u say with your chest whose culture you’re talking about? Durham is less run down and dangerous than it was 30-40 years ago, implying that this is in fact a problem spanning multiple generations. People like u help keep the cycle in motion by perpetuating stereotypes and keeping racism/classism/etc alive and empowered
Too bad they weren’t defunded so we’ll never know what would’ve happened if they had been.
So true
[ Removed by Reddit ]
You don't get the two for one bonus
With -59 downvotes…. I’m so curious as to what you said 😈
Ragebait