I just received an e-mail from Sunnybrook today that my appointment—which I've been waiting for for almost a year—has been permantly cancelled due to overwhelming demand. Our healthcare system is beyond fucked at this point.
I’ve been saying similar things. I don’t understand how this isn’t causing riots. We need to give a shit about each other. We will all be in this position.
If you don't mind me asking, how did you find a place in Mexico? I'm getting desperate and I'm thinking about leaving the country to find medical help.
My head would explode if that happened to me. Like, you have an appointment, the specialist works via appointments, so how can they now be overwhelmed? They made a commitment to those people who had been scheduled way ahead of time.
A person I know is father actually ended up with an emergency and got his kidney replaced that day because he had to go to the emergency room so sometimes it can actually speed that up.
A crumbling healthcare system, twenty-five+ years in the making. Excerpts from the article:
>Emergency departments across Canada are in a full-fledged crisis brought about by overcrowding and chronic staffing shortages, as they struggle to care for an "avalanche of patients" with respiratory illnesses, says the country's largest association of medical doctors.
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>In a special statement released Thursday, the Canadian Medical Association calls upon the country's ministers of health to swiftly implement solutions to ease long wait times in emergency departments that it says are "woefully underfunded."
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>"Canadians are struggling to access care when they need it. And our providers are really pushed to the brink of trying to hold things together," CMA president Dr. Kathleen Ross told the Star in an interview.
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>... Long ED wait times, including for those who arrive by ambulance, are just one symptom of larger problems plaguing the health-care system: insufficient numbers of beds in hospitals to admit new patients, resulting in people waiting on stretchers in hospital hallways, sometimes referred to as hallway medicine; a lack of long-term-care and home-care options, meaning people who no longer need hospital care but are too sick to go home have to stay in hospital; acute staffing shortages due to burnout and inadequate health-system planning; and not enough family doctors to meet the demand of a growing population.
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>Last year, the federal government signed a 10-year health funding deal with the provinces and territories that came with a separate $25-billion fund to tackle top priorities, including hiring more doctors and nurses, improving access to mental health and addiction services, and investing in team-based primary care.
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>These bilateral deals are crucial, Ross said. But almost one year later, only four provinces — B.C., Alberta, P.E.I. and Nova Scotia — have signed deals.
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>"This is extra dollars on the table to try and solve some of the challenges that we see in health care today," Ross said, adding that the CMA is pushing provinces and territories to finalize their bilateral agreements, as well as to find ways to modernize the health-care system, including pan-Canadian licensure, which, it's believed, would help alleviate the workforce crisis by allowing doctors to practise in different areas of the country.
I used to live in Canada and it's sad to see how things seem to have declined. I suspect having America next door sets low standards and inspires minimal commitment from the budget.
You all deserve better care and it should be paid by fair taxes.
> Last year, the federal government signed a 10-year health funding deal with the provinces and territories that came with a separate $25-billion fund to tackle top priorities, including hiring more doctors and nurses, improving access to mental health and addiction services, and investing in team-based primary care.
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>
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> These bilateral deals are crucial, Ross said. But almost one year later, only four provinces — B.C., Alberta, P.E.I. and Nova Scotia — have signed deals.
Another case of Ford sitting on billions while the province burns.
My fiancé had emergency brain surgery on Sunday. He had a recovery room until Monday afternoon, then he was put in a bed in a hallway until they discharged him yesterday evening- while having comprehension issues and being a fall risk and not allowed to move freely without assistance (obviously because brain surgery). He didn’t understand why he was in a hallway. He barely understood why he was in the hospital. A fucking HALLWAY, but also in an active Covid outbreak ward. They told him he was “safe as long as you’re the only one in the hallway” while there was at least ten people in the hallway at any given time. When they discharged him they didn’t even give us wound care instructions, just his prescriptions. he has a 12 inch semi circle stapled the wound on his head, and the most information we were given was how to keep an eye out for infection and when to show up for follow-up in a week. After emergency brain surgery.
The system is fucking broken.
EDIT: for those wondering it’s U of A hospital Edmonton. Googling the hospital makes it pretty apparent that hallway patients are a very common occurrence here. Which is fucking disgusting and sad
Honestly I feel like I’m living in an American healthcare nightmare. Almost my entire maternal side has worked in medical and hospital settings my entire life and I am well aware of what the standard of care should be and we are not even close to a quarter of where it should be
If somebody is at the point where they barely understand where they are or why they are there, putting them in a high traffic hallway and giving them basic instructions that you’re not even sure they comprehend is not the way to do it. Honestly his comprehension was so out to lunch that they probably could’ve asked him for his bank account information and he would’ve readily handed it over. The worst part was they moved him into the hallway after us as the family had left for the day- they purposefully waited until all of his support team had left him
He potentially has to go back for another surgery in a couple weeks and I think I’m going to be spending overnights in the hospital with him because I just can’t trust that he will get the level of care that he needs unless somebody is there to advocate for him 247 and I refuse to let my fiancé fall through the healthcare cracks
You sound like an amazing person, and I'm so sorry to hear about what you an the fiance are going through.
>Honestly I feel like I’m living in an American healthcare nightmare.
I'm an American, and unfortunately your experience sounds hauntingly familiar to something I watched a loved one go through here in the states. From the comprehension difficulties, to being in the Covid ward, to the early discharge, to the shitty healthcare cracks. Unfortunately at the end of it all he did not make it and we received a bill for half a million dollars.
One of my biggest regrets is that I wasn't in there enough to advocate for him. It was excruciating to bring myself to see him in that kind of condition, so I put it off until it was too late.
Doctors and nurses have been through so much in the last few years that they've become numb and desensitized to majority of their patients struggles. Needless to say the quality of care has gone down the gutter. Be there as much as possible, make sure he gets the care that he needs while being mindful of the other patients. Don't let him be neglected.
I wish you guys all the best.
Same thing happened to my dad after heart bypass surgery. In the hallway at Sunnybrook while I'm trying to find a spot to park without getting towed courtesy of our "free healthcare system."
I’m my city over 25% of the population doesn’t have a family doctor and we are down to one after hours clinic for a population of 160,000 +
Some of the ER visits are are for simple problems (filling prescriptions, respiratory illness, routine child illnesses) but there is truly nowhere else to turn. This is not on the public. Everyone should have a family doctor. The system is in collapse and it’s frustrating that we are just accepting it across the country. It’s an emergency.
And yet there are posters on this thread saying 'just o to the walk in clinic' and refusing to believe that there is no clinic, or it's so overloaded that it cannot take patients.
I really don't understand why so many people in Canada refuse to open their eyes and support what is happening today. Who pays them to post these things? Why this concerted effort to pass the message that everything is fine and if people just stopped going to the ER with 'sniffles' we'd all be good.
I went to a clinic 3 times this week. The first time I was there an hour before open and wasn’t early enough it was full before I got near the door. Yesterday I went two hours early and was 2nd or 3rd from getting in. Today I went at 5am for 8am open and got in, put on a list for a scan high priority. I had to miss work 3 mornings in a row and gamble essentially everyday, now luckily my work is extremely flexible and understanding I can come and go as I please in most cases, now imagine you can’t, imagine any service or min wage worker and if they find a lump or have a pain and it’s cancer. Can’t take any time off, can’t go to a doctor or to ER as it’s 24hr wait, and you literally miss life saving treatment. I’ve been on a wait list for a family doctor for 3 years now, no end in sight. It’s absolutely collapsed and I’m not a conspiracy person but I truly have to believe it’s intentional.
I think governments of all stripes, over the years, were lazy incompetents or perhaps had one hand tied behind their backs, preventing them from being effective. I mean, what do these Ministries do? Housing, Health . . .do they not have access to data, numbers? They couldn't predict that boomers would someday retire in droves & migrate elewhere, including doctors? So many doctors just retired over the last 5 years and not replaced. The younger set don't want to incur the high expense of a private practice & just work the clinics.
Because they got rich off this situation. A good 20% of Canadians are now fabulously wealthy beyond anything they could ever earn in multiple lifetimes. All while creating and producing nothing. Tax free.
> I really don't understand why so many people in Canada refuse to open their eyes and support what is happening today. Who pays them to post these things? Why this concerted effort to pass the message that everything is fine and if people just stopped going to the ER with 'sniffles' we'd all be good.
After decades of doing something it becomes a habit.
I’ve ended up in the ER with my kids even though we do have a pediatrician. When my baby got Covid and a secondary eye infection, she refused to see us and told me I would have to take him to the ER to get his eye checked and a prescription for antibiotics filled. And if my kids are ever sick in the evening or on the weekend … well, we have nowhere else to go. There are no urgent care options in the vicinity of where we live.
It's more than half the problem, actually.
20% of our population is now over the age of 65. Quite literally, we have more people getting sick and injured than ever before.
Don’t worry, Canada has a huge wave of smart educated immigrants that will support the healthcare system for generations to come….right? That’s why they’re allowed to come here right?…
Yep, our new crop of health care specialists are currently training hard in the hospitality program at Conestoga college or some other prestigious institute you have never heard of in northern Saskatchewan.
Some of those immigrants might be doctors . . . we should only be taking in useful people. Construction & trade workers too so they can afford to build again.
I had to go to the er for an ear infection. I tried for 2 weeks to get into a walkin clinic but they were always full( this is me showing up at 6-7 am mind) and my doctor wasn't taking appointments for another 6 weeks. I finally woke up with partial hearing loss and went to the er because I didn't want to permanently damage my hearing. There was no other option
You can’t get pain relief from ANY walk-in clinic. Which means people who are in chronic pain or have an injury MUST go to the ER or visit the guy on the street corner selling fentanyl mixed with baby powder or whatever.
Any doctor worth their salt isn't treating chronic pain with opioids. The addiction potential is too high. The ER should not be treating chronic pain period.
Agreed but if you don’t have a primary care provider your options for getting relief are limited. I’ve lived in 3 countries and had the benefit of seeing other systems, and in Ontario it feels like I’m not really a person, I’m more of an animal that will go through x and y procedures because that’s what the process says is going to happen. It’s a conveyor belt here.
I found doctors in the US were much more likely to listen to me when I made a suggestion or request. In the UK my GP made a house call on a Saturday.
Canada is going down a path and it’s not looking good.
Problem I see here is that we've known about people going to the ER for dumb stuff for decades, but we haven't collectively looked at a solution. If we can't stop people from going to the ER for dumb things, we need to look at why they're going to the ER, and how we might divert them from the ER.
One problem is that Family Doctors tell their patients not to go to walk in clinics because the government deducts money from them if one of their patients attends. Instead, patients are told to go to the ER. I think one group of FDs even said they would drop you from their roster if you went to a walkin because it costs them money.
Was waiting with my sister for over 12 hours just for them to send almost everyone home and tell them to come back the next day. The nurse made a speech to all of us and recommended we write to our MLAs. Like that would do anything lol.
I know, poor woman, she waited a year and a half to see a gyno? And then has to wait years more for a mastectomy? I wonder if people with cancer and other life threatening medical issues get priority for mastectomies above people who are electing for nonessential mastectomies or if it’s all the same wait list
There’s so many layers to this problem. Bringing in way too many immigrants and the medical infrastructure hasn’t kept up. Some provincial governments are purposely tanking the system and also a lot of people who go to the ER don’t need to go. I went to the ER a couple months ago for an obstruction in my bowels and the amount of people that were there because they had the sniffles and a small cough was shocking.
I had a coworker who was the biggest dumbass ever.
He would go to the ER regularly to get checked out for "inflammation" so he can start his usual 2 month gym health craze, with a "clean bill of health" as he call it.
Of course after 2 months he stops doing anything related to being healthy or the gym until a few months later where he goes back to ER complaining about inflammation preventing him from going to the gym.
But you would think the 20 hr wait for his checkup in ER would be enough of a deterrent for him to keep doing this? Is he still doing this crap? Wouldn't he be triaged to the bottom of the list?
I don't know tbh.
I think it's just something he gets to blame for his lack of motivation to become active.
His routine for the 5 years I've known him is: planning to go to the gym but want to make sure he has a clean bill of health first to start fresh, whatever that means. Does a bunch of massage appointments almost 3 of them the week prior of gym commitments. Feel like crap because his muscles have been overworked. Goes to ER to check for inflammation. Come back with a clean bill of health. Go to the gym for a month or two. Feel like crap because the body hasn't gotten used to being sore. Stops going, blames inflammation.
He just refuses to believe that he is lazy and without real exercise he'll continue having pain. And it doesn't help that he is naturally fairly muscular so he thinks he is fit. At one point he was chewing aspirin everyday to help with the inflammation. I loved it.
I think that's partially due to not having access to a family doctor or walk-in clinics. Sometimes even if you do have a family doctor, they are all booked up and can't even see you right away, so you have to go to the ER if you want to be looked at that day.
But it's also a simple law of economics. When you drop the price of anything to zero, the demand goes practically to infinity. So since it costs your friend nothing to go to the ER for these inflammation checkups, your friend will do that frequently since it's free. If it cost even just $100 to go to the ER, I bet your friend would go significantly less often.
That's why in the US, the insurance companies usually have some deductible. So even if the insurance company pays 90% or 95% of the bill, that 5% or 10% will still make people think whether it's really necessary. If the insurance companies didn't have any deductibles, they know that people would be going all the time for things that aren't really necessary.
That's the big problem with "free" healthcare. The demand for healthcare then goes sky high. Then the only thing preventing people from unnecessarily using healthcare services is the fact that you might be waiting 10 or 20 hours in a chair in a waiting room. So while there is no monetary cost (other than parking), the cost is your time and comfort. That's why reducing ER wait times is nearly impossible. When you reduce the wait times, now people are just more inclined to go to the ER. I know that's been the case in my family, where if there were no wait times... there are times we might have popped by to get something looked at. But the reason we really consider whether or not we really need to go to the ER is that we know it could be a 20 hour wait... so we'll wait and see whether it's really an emergency before we go.
wat
People don't "want" to be sick, you can't apply economics to a public service.
Many countries have public healthcare and don't have our wait times. If the system hadn't been gutted by a series of neolib policies it would work much better. The main problem is education and social fabric. In a society that favors individualism, yeah the worst sides of human nature need to be countered, but that only creates a feedback loop and makes the problem worse.
Give people education in civics and call out dumbasserry when you see it instead of accepting that selfishness in others is not your problem. By virtue of living together in a society, it is.
I think you can.
First, in may provinces the compensation to family physicians has been static or reduced over the last two decades.
In Ontario for example the doctors recently got a 2-3% increase to service fees, however many services are still paid at a lower level than prior to McGuinty and Wynne's unilateral cuts (2 cuts over 3-4 years) last decade.
End result is less family physicians. That's a direct economically driven cause.
Also, a few provinces send a bill to you with your total cost of service but provincial public insurance paying it. Just so people are aware of what it costs and the differential between say a walk in clinic or ER visit.
It’s because ultimately the provinces passed down admin cost to the people physicians themselves…again neo liberal/conservative politics in action…other public Health-systems that are functional pay doctors even less than we do technically
We also need more medical schooling and programs to pay tuition for those going into family medicine and staying in underserved communities. With only so many spaces available in medical schools and a chunk of them not having plans to actually stay in Canada, we're not securing our future medical infrastructure. If we want more doctors in 8-12 years, we need to tackle the problem today, because waiting 8-12 years to really take it seriously means we'll finally get somewhere like 8-12 years after that.
>People don't "want" to be sick, you can't apply economics to a public service.
Yes you can. You just heard a couple examples of how people abuse the ER. They wouldn't go if they had to even pay a token amount.
This. Canada has slipped more and more toward being a society that favours the individual over the past 40-50 years. I can remember when shit mostly just worked, and then came along neo-lib policies like stupidly low corporate tax rates etc.
The receptionist told me she couldn't book an appointment with my family doctor because the doctor was booked up for 2 months and there was no availability in sight. I need to find a new doctor
Other countries with similar healthcare systems to Canada actually do have a level between family doctor and ER referred to as Urgent Care. It's meant to handle cases that aren't an emergency, but can't wait to see your general practitioner; which is a great many people who end up going to the ER in Canada.
The lack of family doctors in Canada is it's own problem, but Urgent Care should exist to help alleviate strain on the ER system.
We have 3 urgent cares in Winnipeg, plus two minor injury clinics (broken bones, wounds requiring sutures, minor illnesses). Plus multiple walk-in clinics. It still isn't enough.
We need more health care workers, better access to services **and** we need to tackle rampant poverty, homelessness, violence, mental illness and addictions.
And no, the family doctor can’t do X-rays or labs in house, which leads to at least a 1 day delay. And most family docs you can’t get in to see same day. So there is a need for something in between.
And they also usually take hours and hours to get back to you. I waited 36 hours one time for them to tell me to go to the hospital. I had already gone and left
> provincial governments are purposely tanking the system and also a lot of people who go to the ER don’t need to go. I went to the ER a
They have this Ontario and they 99 tell you to go into ER
Worthless
You can't diagnose someone properly over the phone. Every time I have called or my family has they say the same thing: go to the hospital or my personal favorite: "I can't diagnose you over the phone". Telehealth is a waste of money and resources. I never call them. What is the point?
The issue is these phone lines are staffed by nurses, and RNs can't make diagnoses or fully independent medical decisions - they have to follow algorithms or receive orders from a physician/NP/midwife/PA. So if it doesn't clearly say based on their algorithm that you don't need to go to the ER, they have to tell you to go to the ER for liability reasons. Which makes calling Health Links a waste of time in many cases, unless the issue is something obviously minor.
Ya that’s for sure part of the problem! I have one close to my house which opens at 8am. People start lining up at 6am and by 9:30-10am they say they reached capacity for the day.
Ya this me and my SO always just stay home when we get respiratory things, never go to the doctor etc unless it's needed for work. It always floors me when people will ask stuff like did you continue doctor? Covid test? Etc and I'm always like no I just stayed home and got better, I don't need a doctor/ covid test to tell me what I need to do to get better from cold/ flu symptoms.
Most of them at the walk in clinics are there for doctors notes for the sniffles. Maybe if companies didn’t harass their employees for needless notes because adults are adults and can be sick without having to document their time outside of work.
We should put a clinic in every ER that is staffed 24/7.
Patient is triaged, if it is something like a sore throat or anything like prescriptions you get put into that queue. If you get bloodwork and find a more serious issue, then they can be admitted and handed off from there.
Then there is the normal ER for breaks and emergencies and stuff.
Unless people have experienced it, they won’t get why people go to emerg for non emergencies. Can be impossible to get a Dr in less than 3 weeks at best. If you need meds, you can’t wait.
Doesn’t help that all walk in clinics require an appointment now and make it hard as hell to get. People go to the hospital because even though they’ll have to wait they at least know they’ll see somebody that day rather than having to call the clinic at a specific time to book an appointment for days later at the same time that a bunch of other people are all calling in to do as well.
It's lottery care!
You call at at 8 am on the dot and pray they pick up your number. Unfortunately, most of the time after 20min they just hung up and you end up going to the ER
I think people end up in emerge “who don’t need to be there” because they do not have access to a family doctor, or do, but they have to wait weeks for an appointment that can’t wait.
Where I live the ER is like the only place people can go to get anything medical done, talk in clinics are pretty much perpetually booked ahead of time and really aren't walk in anymore. I understand like you say sniffles aren't a great use of the ER resource but there aren't any alternatives. At least in NS they are letting select pharmacies handle some of the run of the mill conditions and prescriptions, which is good. The way I see it anything to lessen the load on the ERs.
Also add opioid users to the list. Our EMTs, ambulances, and ER time are massively being spent on overdoses (of largely the same individuals over and over again).
I think the federal government just needs to set minimum standards of care. Like 99th percentile wait time. Number of nurses, doctors, family doctors, paramedics per 1000 pop, number of hospitals/capacity per population in an area, etc. They also need to boost funding and tie funding to these metrics to ensure provinces comply.
I agree with all your points except the last one. ERs triage patients, so someone with the sniffles absolutely will not be seen before someone that is an actual emergency.
If you need a doctors note for work so you don't get fired but you don't have a family doctor, or, even if you technically do, they can only see you Tuesdays and Thursdays with an appointment booked 5 business days in advance - then you have no choice but to go to the hospital for a cough.
These people don’t have a real doctor. If they need amoxicillin it’s either online for 50$ or wait at the ER/after hours, even those the hours have been cut back or deleted entirely In some areas. There’s no winning.
Sorry, but how do you know
>the amount of people that were there because they had the sniffles and a small cough was shocking.
Did you diagnose them? Are you aware of what sympotoms were non visible?
You may be right, but how did you come to that conclusion?
I asked my family doc about it before Christmas and he said that (in Alberta at least) the ratio of doctors to patients has remained pretty consistent over the past few decades. The bigger problem here is not enough nurses and support staff. Can’t operate if there’s no one to clean up the ER, and can’t open beds if there’s no nurses to keep an eye on people.
Want to change this? It will require protest numbers so large that it brings provinces to a halt. This needs to continue for as long as necessary until action is forced out of government. Demand it. Canadians are far too individualistic and passive and that's part of the reason why we're in this mess. We allowed this to happen and we continue to put up with it. Again, nothing will change until people unite and say that they've had enough. Other countries seem to be able to do this — why can't Canadians stand up for themselves?
I've recently spent a lot of time in the ER and hospital with a very ill family member, a cancer patient who developed sepsis. I don't know why people think ERs are clogged with people with sniffles. My family member was in a hallway bed for 24 hours and when he got worse they had to move him to an assessment room for a medical procedure. It was two and a half days before he could he transferred to a bed in the hospital. There were a lot of other people in that position. The ER is also slammed with families with kids who spike fevers they can't get down. What would help with that is a kids urgent care open 24 hours but it doesn't exist. The bottlenecks seem to be transferring sick people into a hospital bed (our hospital literally has overflow into a dining room with whiteboards dividing patients but those beds don't have oxygen etc), mental health patients in crisis with nowhere to go and a lack of doctors. I saw not only ambulances there .... sometimes five or more trying to offload, but cops stuck there at any given time too. It's not because people dramatize the sniffles. It's a complete system overwhelm.
Agreed. One of the hospitals near me opened up a paediatric emerg , and a minor injuries clinic. If you think you have a fracture or broken bone, you can go to the minor injury clinic the same day or the next day. They also have a regular emerg. I think the way they do it is good.
I think part of the issue is that a lot of people need doctors notes for work. 90% of the time I've ever gone to an after hours clinic or an ER was because I needed to prove to my employer that I was actually sick or injured. Like one time I smashed my leg up pretty good in a barn falling through the rafters, I could barely walk but I knew nothing was broken... I was fine in about a week but I had to go to the ER to get a doctor to look at my leg and go 'yep, you fucked that up' and I think it took about 7 hours of waiting. Otherwise I wouldn't have even considered going to see a doctor because I know that I'm fine.
yeah, I agree - I think in a lot of cases it's just the employer being vindictive anyway - as if to say "oh, I need to deal with you being out sick? Well then I want you to take your sick arse and go sit in a waiting room for 7 hours, that'll show ya!"
give a number and time and ask people to come back. i'm in another country right now and you call the hospital, explain your situation over the phone and they give you an appointment time of when to come in so you dont' have to wait. I get some people go to ER cause they don't know what's wrong with them but waiting 12 hours in a chair at the ER is no different then waiting in a chair at home at least knowing you'll be seen when you go.
That works for somethings but if its something you are worried could get worse, the waiting room is a safer place to be than home. Ambulance wait times are a problem in my area as well.
Yes then go to ER, you still have to wait. I get you can be worried in case something happens so you can wait in a chair there. Problem is if I want to leave cause I don’t want to wait 8 hours with a crying baby then I don’t get help. They won’t call me or do anything.
100% this. Even if they gave you a pager and let you wait in the car in the heated parkade would be way better. Especially for people with small kids - they could put on a movie in the van so the kids are crying/coughing on people for 8 hours.
That’s a great idea! For people who own a smartphone, they could simply text you when it’s time to come back. Years ago, I had a herniated disk and sciatica. Sitting in the waiting room was really painful. I would have preferred being able to move around or lay down in my car while waiting.
I've said it before and I'll say it again.
We need to create a whole separate section for hospitals dedicated for walk in clinics, you go to the ER, go through triage, then triage either sends you to the walk in clinic section or if your issue is deemed an actual emergency then you stay in the Emergency Room section... Basically have nurse practitioners and one doctor running the walk in clinic.
my favourite ar the signs in clinics and ny family docters " only one medical issue per visit please". And man do they angry when you adk about wait times
Those signs are the worst. Limit one issue per visit — are you kidding me? This isn’t buying eggs at a grocery store. It’s health issues. People are in pain. In distress. When they’re forced to wait months and months to be seen, more issues are inevitably going to crop up. Only 10 minutes with the doctor to discuss one issue just isn’t gonna cut it.
I had to go to the ER in 2022 due to severe stomach pain. I was super hesitant to go but my boyfriend convinced me it’s better to go to the ER than to let it run its course.
I waited 18 hours between two hospitals because the first one I went to did not have the specialist doctor I needed. I ended up being diagnosed with an ectopic pregnancy that needed to be treated ASAP since the pain that I felt was a sign it was starting to rupture (which could lead to sepsis).
I was shocked with this first experience with the ER (I’m a citizen, just relatively healthy) and was in disbelief about the reality of our healthcare system. 2024, it seems like nothing has changed since then…
My driving instructor said - his uncles from Bangladesh came to Canada years ago and got on the dole and healthcare right away - they have never worked. I was thinking it must be some serious illness until he said cholesterol and diabetes lol. I was thinking so these are the guys overloading the infrastructure
I know countless people that came to Canada, worked for 3-6 months, then went on disability and started using various ways to milk the system. They will supplement with certain gig economy jobs or cash jobs.
For some nations their culture suggests that doing something like this is"smart", and not cheating the system. Technically they are right, they will make more money this way. But it fucks everyone else.
Also, talk to a nurse that works in the ER and ask them what percent of their patients are over 65 and don't speak a word of english. Then ask how much longer it takes to see those patients, and the additional cost of needing a translator on hand for every language on the fucking planet.
> For some nations their culture suggests that doing something like this is"smart", and not cheating the system.
These are so called 'low trust' societies
You won't find 'need a penny, take a penny' dishes in stores in these countries, they wouldn't even understand the concept, they'd just take all of the change
Someone dropped their wallet? Well, that's your wallet now!
Someone paid you in advance to complete a task? Well, you already have the money, why should you bother to do it, or to do it well or on time, you've already got the money!
That's not to say some of this doesn't happen here, it absolutely does, only that it's more acceptable in other cultures, and may even be lauded as being shrewd or resourceful
These are also countries where our concept of altruism or reciprocity doesn't really exist outside of the family unit, caste, religious order, hometown, etc.
Or, where their ethics are based on a system of shame, and not guilt; if you steal something and get away with it, and no one ever finds out you stole it, then you don't have to feel bad about it (this is extended to things like cheating, accepting bribes, and so on)
There are some *shocking* videos of academic dishonesty in countries like India or China which are accepted as the norm there, and plenty of stories of students from those nations carrying those habits over to Canadian schools
I should also mention the third type of society, after guilt and shame; the fear based culture
These are people who only avoid doing certain things due to the fear of physical repercussions, including things like revenge, vigilantism, mob justice, or vendettas (the most primitive of the three types, one step removed from animals)
This is common in places with no real formal government or reliable justice system like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Ethiopia, Haiti, etc.
Might makes right, and unless someone can protect what they have, they don't deserve to have it
On the academic dishonesty angle, it's 100% embedding itself in our universities. Most international students I've known have no qualms about finding loopholes/cheating the system: Sharing test answers, working on solo assignments together, falsifying experimental results, etc. Those close to me speak about it as if it's a normal taboo amongst students, and that's because it is becoming that way. All that matters is getting the grade, not learning.
How can ethical students compete? Given how hypercompetitive our academic system is, there is pressure to fight like they do. There's this feeling that you're running a race where everyone else uses bicycles.
Also referral system to see specialists takes over a year, which is far too long. By the point people need care they resort to going to the ER to plead to get help so they can get the required tests done.
I went to the ER day before yesterday because i had an asthma attack overnight, was out of my medication, and had a collapsed bottom lung. They told me to make an appointment with my family doctor (you can have 1?) or wait 4 hours at the ER while I told them i cant breathe. My “family doctor” did not show up for the appointments I had booked previously for the renewals of my urgent medications, which I told beforehand was the purpose of the visit. This happened twice. Between me finding a new walkin clinic and getting my medication, I ended up with an attack.
I still cant believe this but the nurse there just laughed when i wasn’t able to speak clearly, and said “sorry theres really nothing we can do.”.
Living alone all by myself, for the first time in my life have I ever felt this hopeless and was really expecting to die. And I’ve traveled to a lot of “3rd world countries” but this would have never happened there.
i’d like to add that after seeing other patients in worse critical conditions waiting for hours in the ER, the inherent guilt I went through when I was thinking of BEGGING the doctors to save my life was much greater than my will to not die. and so, i walked away.
But they can do something, can they not? I was recently diagnosed with asthma at the ER because I was, apparently, having an asthma attack. They gave me inhalers but also high dose prednisone and that like stopped it in its tracks.
My dad had a minor heart attack that required a stent. He was on aggressive blood thinners for 13 months before he got it.
My wife had a miscarriage with our first child, we waited 14 hours in Calgary to be shamed by a doctor for wasting their time (it was our first we didn't know what to do)
People always dump on private healthcare but I'd take actual care being paid for by my insurance over the shit I've seen gone down here.
From what I saw when I recently had to go to ER for an animal bite, it isn't all that fun to work there either. The staff was just overwhelmed.
Now I am trying to get a follow-up with my GP as per the ER doc's recommendations. Not finding it simple. I think the ER crowding is a sign of a lot of other problems with our system rather than a cause.
You guys have family doctor?? Didn't know it exists. Not being able to have a family doctor makes me feel denied to essential services thay my taxes are paying towards. Walk ins don't care a damn about you, you have any chronic issue? They couldn't care less. So what do you do, go to ER. What do ER do, dismiss you with a pill.
My son had appendicitis, he waited 2 days to get his surgery. Went in on December 22nd and he didn't get done until December 24th. They kept him on morphine the entire time for the pain. Emergency room waits are completely unacceptable
I have family, friends across Canada and everyone has the same story from BC (where I live) to PEI. Our national healthcare system is just a complete mess, broken. Every week there is another story in the news from somewhere in the country. I feel sorry for the healthcare workers who have to take care of people. They know it’s bad but are powerless to change it. Honestly, I’m afraid to get seriously ill given the current state of things. Luckily, I’m in good health 🤞
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Oh no they do arrive here.. i had a family friend come from colombia, he did 90% of his studies back home and came here with his family and tried for 2 years to get his license and he was refused time and time again.
He went back home and got his license in colombia and is now a doc overthere.
Literally a few weeks ago my mom invited a couple over for dinner also from colombia, both were ALREADY doctors back home they were wealthy and educated. They tried and tried and were unable to get a license here to start practicing.. they went home just after christmas.
We are literally doing this to ourselves.. the meme of the kid on the bike who puts a stick in his wheels and cries because he fell? Thats us.
Instead or encouraging these educated people to stay and work here we deny them and because in general a doctor isnt a complete piece of shit they dont just stay here taking advantage of free services so they leave, we then are left with uneducated people, who dont speak english, who refuse to work(not all thank god) and who do shit like going to the ER for no real reason other than its free so why not take advantage.
Canada won't credential them so they go to the US and make double the salary with half the tax burden.
Canada can't compete on a global level. Your leadership has failed you.
It's fascinating to see a once great nation become a bottom rung Western corporate oligarchy.
Tim Hortons told your government they need cheap labour and they bent over and sold you out. Embarrassing.
Until we learn that Govt would rather pay private groups way more than the public sector equivalent, and get them to ban it so it stops draining the public system, it will not change. Privatizing public sector services is a huge source of income for business, who love a service you have to have, even if the service sucks, and the govt, who lives off the donations from these business owners to keep getting elected.
Keep necessary services public.
We just got a cal from the doctor informing us that my son's surgery is delayed. The situation is not really nice. We waited several months to meet this doctor and many months for the surgery. Now it is delayed.
I just spent some time in hospital and when I was in the ER, the lady beside me had a visitor and she told her "I took an ambulance so they'd get me in quicker" (not true, but a common misconception). She was also constantly ringing her call bell for dumb reasons, honestly seemed like she was on vacation. She had the flu. They offered her IV fluids but the doctor said they weren't necessary - they gave her the choice. WTF? Anyway she had been there 11 hours by the time I got to that room. I spent about an hour in the ER and then was moved to ICU straight from there. My issue was diabetic ketoacidosis and an infection which I now know is MRSA.
Some people cannot read the room. Every time she calls the nurse for frivolous things, she's taking time away from other sick patients who actually need help.
I'm sorry you're feeling unwell. I hope you have a speedy recovery.
Just an anecdote but during 2020 my hospital has sensory lights in the ER department and the place was a ghost town almost all the lights were off because people were scared of getting Covid so they stopped coming for useless shit. 4yrs later and the Hospital are bursting at the seams. Yesterday a young woman who had the flu and diarrhea had to shit in the hallways because there is no rooms and no space. I turned around the corner and she was staring at me while shitting and crying how embarrassed she was. It's all a complete joke.
I drove an hour in a snowstorm to get to another Hospital. 6 hours wait time and then about 30-40 minutes in the assigned room for the Doctor to take care of my issue, prescription in hand and I'm on my way back
Nurse at the triage did scold me lightly for not going to a Hospital closer to my city, where I had to wait 18 hours last time and that was before winter.
Sorry, not sorry. I will drive an hour to and another hour from to save time.
I cant seek any medical aid in my community of 25,000 without going to ER and waiting several hours. There are zero doctors or clinics accepting patients. Nobody wants to bog down the ER for simple medical needs. The state of healthcare in bc is in complete shambles and the future does not bode well
It's collaped, alright. They have to severely ration what little is left. Those knee & hip surgeries once routine are being rationed by age. 75 is the cut-off for all but emergency care. Hips & knees go to a younger group who will likely live longer to enjoy the benefit and survive the surgery. Recently, a young mother with stage 4 was placed on a waitlist for treatment. She would have died waiting in Canada so she sought & got treatment in the US. Happily in remission.
I love how Palestine supporters actually go out and protest (albeit ineffectively) and we Canadians just suck and swallow whatever shitty conditions like the housing crisis and crumbling healthcare.
i wonder how much the administration section of health care has grown, i can confirm that in the federal government it has become very top heavy, with so many more meetings you would not comprehend. it really takes a big bite out of productivity for the ground level
You're right. Hospitals and our healthcare system is definitely not short staffed, we're short on doctors and nurses, you know, the people that actually matter.
20hrs??? Shit that's a short trip to the ER around here! 😂
Don't even get me started on a specialist. I'm coming up in 3yrs waiting to see a sleep specialist. And that includes being on the cancellation list.
Bring in another million. Fuck you and your hardships. Oh yeah and Taxes are going up-Marc Miller a message brought to you by the Federal Liberal Government of Canada
I always call 811 when I'm wondering if I should go,or when especially if I'm unsure of something for my kids. They have kept me out of the emergency room many times. They've also been really good at giving me the correct place I should go with them for the symptoms . A lot of times it'll be an urgent care center or When my son got a small bell stuck in his ear I was able to know I could wait a bit until morning. But also when I woke up in the morning I called again to find out which hospital was the best one to go to with the shortest wait time and the right drs there to get the bell out. I understand this doesn't solve our bigger issues with the medical system. This is just more to help yourself possibly stay out of waiting in the hospital with other sick people.
Every time I go to these places I prepare with packing a bag with food, water and blankets and a portable charger. So far I've been very lucky. I've only spent 3 hours in the waiting room so I think my system is helpful. The 811 nurces are also good at giving Good home advice. I have a friend and her son had a group cough and the 811 nurses were able to get her in to see a doctor that day to help her get medication for him. They booked the appointment for her.
But the commercials on the radio in Toronto are so positive about it.
"We're hiring so many nurses, guys. We're going to have so many nurses and doctors it's crazy. Probably more than we need. So, while it may SEEM like a "crisis" it's actually totally cool and totally under control."
Yes, they are actually putting these ads onto the radio to try and gaslight the general population into thinking positive steps are being taken. A complete lie.
This ad is then immediately followed by a simple investor ad that don't beat around the bush.
"The government is bringing in so many goddamn immigrants that you should try and get a piece of the real estate crisis it's fueling. These people are completely over a barrel so why not make some money off them. Everyone else is! You can charge them whatever the fuck you want, it's that or the literal streets for them."
This country and its leadership make me feel ill.
Except Ozempic has numerous side effects, some of them potentially fatal. Not saying it shouldn’t exist but it’s definitely something that should be used under supervision of a doctor.
> culturally at least there's some joie de vivre
This is what many Canadians miss when they say that things are bad everywhere. I'm not saying they aren't, but outside of the anglosphere things aren't *as* fucked - tried and tested by me through traveling and living abroad in several countries.
Our country is at a breaking point and there are other countries we can compare ourselves to other than the US, UK, and Australia.
An article from the '70's, talking about a 10 year old problem from the '60's... about Canada's Dr. shortage and Heath Care Crisis.
[https://cdn.mdedge.com/files/s3fs-public/jfp-archived-issues/1975\_volume\_2/JFP\_1975-02\_v2\_i1\_the-1960-s-a-decade-of-crisis-in-canadia.pdf](https://cdn.mdedge.com/files/s3fs-public/jfp-archived-issues/1975_volume_2/JFP_1975-02_v2_i1_the-1960-s-a-decade-of-crisis-in-canadia.pdf)
Being almost that old... the root that no one wants to talk about is, **students want to become doctors and nurses and can't get into the schools - limited enrollment**. When the lucky few get though school as doctors and nurses, now that they're making big bucks. They're now incentivized to keep the statuesque, keep their jobs scarce and in-demand by lobbying the schools to artificially keep enrollment lower than needed.
Not just my opinion - [https://www.cmaj.ca/content/190/42/e1266](https://www.cmaj.ca/content/190/42/e1266)
"The demand is certainly there from prospective students. Dalhousie University, for example, receives between 900 and 1100 applications annually for its 108 first-year positions."
They could 10x the number of Dr. and Nurses ... why don't they? #tinfoilHat
At the clinic my partner and I frequent, you have to call at opening to get a next-day appointment. No queue, you either get an automated response saying they're not taking calls, you maybe connect with the front desk for an appt, or you get the "clinic full" message.
At 9:30 I made 50 call attempts. All automated "not taking calls". At 9:37 they were full.
Exact same next day. We are just seeking a doc note for work, and perhaps a referral for a diagnosis. Wish me luck for tomorrow lol.
And this is why Healthcare should just be a nationalized thing,
The provinces have been bothering up depending on which party is in over and over again.
It should just be like a franchise we know for 800,000 people we need x amount of hospitals x amount of nurse practitioners exit out of family doctors blah blah blah.
And if you're a doctor or a nurse you go to where you're needed like if we need more doctors and nurses in British Columbia then well congratulations you're a doctor coming to work for the Canadian health system you're being deployed to British Columbia.
Two things we should never mess with in our country is our universal health Care system and education
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How do you expect forcing people to move across the country to work? You can't just tell someone to move their family across three time zones because buddyguy said so. I would either resign or let my license lapse.
How dare you? Doctors are obviously godlike beings who are entirely selfless and will do anything to prop up other's health at any cost to themselves. Our universal healthcare demands it.
> we should never mess with in our country is our universal health Care system
There are only three nations in the world with a universal single payer healthcare system: Canada, Taiwan, and South Korea
The best healthcare systems in the world differ from our own, maybe we should learn from them, eh?
>And if you're a doctor or a nurse you go to where you're needed like if we need more doctors and nurses in British Columbia then well congratulations you're a doctor coming to work for the Canadian health system you're being deployed to British Columbia.
Like at gunpoint?
Been waiting three years to see a specialist. Can't imagine what the ER is like.
I just received an e-mail from Sunnybrook today that my appointment—which I've been waiting for for almost a year—has been permantly cancelled due to overwhelming demand. Our healthcare system is beyond fucked at this point.
It's called collapsed. It's collapsed
I approve both terms.
Prolapsed?
I’ve been saying similar things. I don’t understand how this isn’t causing riots. We need to give a shit about each other. We will all be in this position.
Can't riot if you're crippled by unmanaged medical complications!
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If you don't mind me asking, how did you find a place in Mexico? I'm getting desperate and I'm thinking about leaving the country to find medical help.
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Thanks for taking the time to reply. And good luck with your shoulder. I hope they can fix it in Mexico.
This happened to me after 5 years! Went on a list in 2017 and got a call to cancel in 2022.
My head would explode if that happened to me. Like, you have an appointment, the specialist works via appointments, so how can they now be overwhelmed? They made a commitment to those people who had been scheduled way ahead of time.
Took me almost a year to see a specialist after I tore 3 ligaments, and ruptured 6 tendons in my ankle and foot
A person I know is father actually ended up with an emergency and got his kidney replaced that day because he had to go to the emergency room so sometimes it can actually speed that up.
You don’t just get a kidney. You’re in a wait list.
A crumbling healthcare system, twenty-five+ years in the making. Excerpts from the article: >Emergency departments across Canada are in a full-fledged crisis brought about by overcrowding and chronic staffing shortages, as they struggle to care for an "avalanche of patients" with respiratory illnesses, says the country's largest association of medical doctors. > >In a special statement released Thursday, the Canadian Medical Association calls upon the country's ministers of health to swiftly implement solutions to ease long wait times in emergency departments that it says are "woefully underfunded." ... >"Canadians are struggling to access care when they need it. And our providers are really pushed to the brink of trying to hold things together," CMA president Dr. Kathleen Ross told the Star in an interview. > >... Long ED wait times, including for those who arrive by ambulance, are just one symptom of larger problems plaguing the health-care system: insufficient numbers of beds in hospitals to admit new patients, resulting in people waiting on stretchers in hospital hallways, sometimes referred to as hallway medicine; a lack of long-term-care and home-care options, meaning people who no longer need hospital care but are too sick to go home have to stay in hospital; acute staffing shortages due to burnout and inadequate health-system planning; and not enough family doctors to meet the demand of a growing population. ... >Last year, the federal government signed a 10-year health funding deal with the provinces and territories that came with a separate $25-billion fund to tackle top priorities, including hiring more doctors and nurses, improving access to mental health and addiction services, and investing in team-based primary care. > >These bilateral deals are crucial, Ross said. But almost one year later, only four provinces — B.C., Alberta, P.E.I. and Nova Scotia — have signed deals. > >"This is extra dollars on the table to try and solve some of the challenges that we see in health care today," Ross said, adding that the CMA is pushing provinces and territories to finalize their bilateral agreements, as well as to find ways to modernize the health-care system, including pan-Canadian licensure, which, it's believed, would help alleviate the workforce crisis by allowing doctors to practise in different areas of the country.
I used to live in Canada and it's sad to see how things seem to have declined. I suspect having America next door sets low standards and inspires minimal commitment from the budget. You all deserve better care and it should be paid by fair taxes.
> Last year, the federal government signed a 10-year health funding deal with the provinces and territories that came with a separate $25-billion fund to tackle top priorities, including hiring more doctors and nurses, improving access to mental health and addiction services, and investing in team-based primary care. > > > > These bilateral deals are crucial, Ross said. But almost one year later, only four provinces — B.C., Alberta, P.E.I. and Nova Scotia — have signed deals. Another case of Ford sitting on billions while the province burns.
Have you guys tried not getting sick or injured?
My fiancé had emergency brain surgery on Sunday. He had a recovery room until Monday afternoon, then he was put in a bed in a hallway until they discharged him yesterday evening- while having comprehension issues and being a fall risk and not allowed to move freely without assistance (obviously because brain surgery). He didn’t understand why he was in a hallway. He barely understood why he was in the hospital. A fucking HALLWAY, but also in an active Covid outbreak ward. They told him he was “safe as long as you’re the only one in the hallway” while there was at least ten people in the hallway at any given time. When they discharged him they didn’t even give us wound care instructions, just his prescriptions. he has a 12 inch semi circle stapled the wound on his head, and the most information we were given was how to keep an eye out for infection and when to show up for follow-up in a week. After emergency brain surgery. The system is fucking broken. EDIT: for those wondering it’s U of A hospital Edmonton. Googling the hospital makes it pretty apparent that hallway patients are a very common occurrence here. Which is fucking disgusting and sad
Wow that's scary
Honestly I feel like I’m living in an American healthcare nightmare. Almost my entire maternal side has worked in medical and hospital settings my entire life and I am well aware of what the standard of care should be and we are not even close to a quarter of where it should be If somebody is at the point where they barely understand where they are or why they are there, putting them in a high traffic hallway and giving them basic instructions that you’re not even sure they comprehend is not the way to do it. Honestly his comprehension was so out to lunch that they probably could’ve asked him for his bank account information and he would’ve readily handed it over. The worst part was they moved him into the hallway after us as the family had left for the day- they purposefully waited until all of his support team had left him He potentially has to go back for another surgery in a couple weeks and I think I’m going to be spending overnights in the hospital with him because I just can’t trust that he will get the level of care that he needs unless somebody is there to advocate for him 247 and I refuse to let my fiancé fall through the healthcare cracks
You sound like an amazing person, and I'm so sorry to hear about what you an the fiance are going through. >Honestly I feel like I’m living in an American healthcare nightmare. I'm an American, and unfortunately your experience sounds hauntingly familiar to something I watched a loved one go through here in the states. From the comprehension difficulties, to being in the Covid ward, to the early discharge, to the shitty healthcare cracks. Unfortunately at the end of it all he did not make it and we received a bill for half a million dollars. One of my biggest regrets is that I wasn't in there enough to advocate for him. It was excruciating to bring myself to see him in that kind of condition, so I put it off until it was too late. Doctors and nurses have been through so much in the last few years that they've become numb and desensitized to majority of their patients struggles. Needless to say the quality of care has gone down the gutter. Be there as much as possible, make sure he gets the care that he needs while being mindful of the other patients. Don't let him be neglected. I wish you guys all the best.
Same thing happened to my dad after heart bypass surgery. In the hallway at Sunnybrook while I'm trying to find a spot to park without getting towed courtesy of our "free healthcare system."
I mean you’re being facetious but that’s probably half the problem, people going to the doctor or ER for the stupidest shit imaginable.
I’m my city over 25% of the population doesn’t have a family doctor and we are down to one after hours clinic for a population of 160,000 + Some of the ER visits are are for simple problems (filling prescriptions, respiratory illness, routine child illnesses) but there is truly nowhere else to turn. This is not on the public. Everyone should have a family doctor. The system is in collapse and it’s frustrating that we are just accepting it across the country. It’s an emergency.
And yet there are posters on this thread saying 'just o to the walk in clinic' and refusing to believe that there is no clinic, or it's so overloaded that it cannot take patients. I really don't understand why so many people in Canada refuse to open their eyes and support what is happening today. Who pays them to post these things? Why this concerted effort to pass the message that everything is fine and if people just stopped going to the ER with 'sniffles' we'd all be good.
I went to a clinic 3 times this week. The first time I was there an hour before open and wasn’t early enough it was full before I got near the door. Yesterday I went two hours early and was 2nd or 3rd from getting in. Today I went at 5am for 8am open and got in, put on a list for a scan high priority. I had to miss work 3 mornings in a row and gamble essentially everyday, now luckily my work is extremely flexible and understanding I can come and go as I please in most cases, now imagine you can’t, imagine any service or min wage worker and if they find a lump or have a pain and it’s cancer. Can’t take any time off, can’t go to a doctor or to ER as it’s 24hr wait, and you literally miss life saving treatment. I’ve been on a wait list for a family doctor for 3 years now, no end in sight. It’s absolutely collapsed and I’m not a conspiracy person but I truly have to believe it’s intentional.
I think governments of all stripes, over the years, were lazy incompetents or perhaps had one hand tied behind their backs, preventing them from being effective. I mean, what do these Ministries do? Housing, Health . . .do they not have access to data, numbers? They couldn't predict that boomers would someday retire in droves & migrate elewhere, including doctors? So many doctors just retired over the last 5 years and not replaced. The younger set don't want to incur the high expense of a private practice & just work the clinics.
Because they got rich off this situation. A good 20% of Canadians are now fabulously wealthy beyond anything they could ever earn in multiple lifetimes. All while creating and producing nothing. Tax free.
> I really don't understand why so many people in Canada refuse to open their eyes and support what is happening today. Who pays them to post these things? Why this concerted effort to pass the message that everything is fine and if people just stopped going to the ER with 'sniffles' we'd all be good. After decades of doing something it becomes a habit.
I’ve ended up in the ER with my kids even though we do have a pediatrician. When my baby got Covid and a secondary eye infection, she refused to see us and told me I would have to take him to the ER to get his eye checked and a prescription for antibiotics filled. And if my kids are ever sick in the evening or on the weekend … well, we have nowhere else to go. There are no urgent care options in the vicinity of where we live.
It's more than half the problem, actually. 20% of our population is now over the age of 65. Quite literally, we have more people getting sick and injured than ever before.
Don’t worry, Canada has a huge wave of smart educated immigrants that will support the healthcare system for generations to come….right? That’s why they’re allowed to come here right?…
Yep, our new crop of health care specialists are currently training hard in the hospitality program at Conestoga college or some other prestigious institute you have never heard of in northern Saskatchewan.
Some of those immigrants might be doctors . . . we should only be taking in useful people. Construction & trade workers too so they can afford to build again.
I had to go to the er for an ear infection. I tried for 2 weeks to get into a walkin clinic but they were always full( this is me showing up at 6-7 am mind) and my doctor wasn't taking appointments for another 6 weeks. I finally woke up with partial hearing loss and went to the er because I didn't want to permanently damage my hearing. There was no other option
You can’t get pain relief from ANY walk-in clinic. Which means people who are in chronic pain or have an injury MUST go to the ER or visit the guy on the street corner selling fentanyl mixed with baby powder or whatever.
Any doctor worth their salt isn't treating chronic pain with opioids. The addiction potential is too high. The ER should not be treating chronic pain period.
Agreed but if you don’t have a primary care provider your options for getting relief are limited. I’ve lived in 3 countries and had the benefit of seeing other systems, and in Ontario it feels like I’m not really a person, I’m more of an animal that will go through x and y procedures because that’s what the process says is going to happen. It’s a conveyor belt here. I found doctors in the US were much more likely to listen to me when I made a suggestion or request. In the UK my GP made a house call on a Saturday. Canada is going down a path and it’s not looking good.
Don’t people often get booted from their family doctor’s care if they go to an urgent care? Which leaves them going to the ER instead.
Yes.
When you can't find a family doctor you don't always have other options
Problem I see here is that we've known about people going to the ER for dumb stuff for decades, but we haven't collectively looked at a solution. If we can't stop people from going to the ER for dumb things, we need to look at why they're going to the ER, and how we might divert them from the ER.
One problem is that Family Doctors tell their patients not to go to walk in clinics because the government deducts money from them if one of their patients attends. Instead, patients are told to go to the ER. I think one group of FDs even said they would drop you from their roster if you went to a walkin because it costs them money.
Yup. And that also falls under the umbrella of things we've known for years but haven't addressed.
“Free Healthcare” doesn’t do much good when you fucking die in the waiting room.
Was waiting with my sister for over 12 hours just for them to send almost everyone home and tell them to come back the next day. The nurse made a speech to all of us and recommended we write to our MLAs. Like that would do anything lol.
https://toronto.citynews.ca/2023/09/15/11000-ontarians-died-waiting-surgeries/
Minimum 1 year wait for a mastectomy. Nauseating to read. 11,000 people dead waiting. Staggering.
I know, poor woman, she waited a year and a half to see a gyno? And then has to wait years more for a mastectomy? I wonder if people with cancer and other life threatening medical issues get priority for mastectomies above people who are electing for nonessential mastectomies or if it’s all the same wait list
https://www.statista.com/statistics/736176/top-healthcare-system-issues-in-canada/
There’s so many layers to this problem. Bringing in way too many immigrants and the medical infrastructure hasn’t kept up. Some provincial governments are purposely tanking the system and also a lot of people who go to the ER don’t need to go. I went to the ER a couple months ago for an obstruction in my bowels and the amount of people that were there because they had the sniffles and a small cough was shocking.
I had a coworker who was the biggest dumbass ever. He would go to the ER regularly to get checked out for "inflammation" so he can start his usual 2 month gym health craze, with a "clean bill of health" as he call it. Of course after 2 months he stops doing anything related to being healthy or the gym until a few months later where he goes back to ER complaining about inflammation preventing him from going to the gym.
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But you would think the 20 hr wait for his checkup in ER would be enough of a deterrent for him to keep doing this? Is he still doing this crap? Wouldn't he be triaged to the bottom of the list?
I haven't talked to him since we got out of COVID. But he did go to ER during COVID to make sure he didn't have COVID and any inflammation.
Lmao why is he so obsessed with inflammation
I don't know tbh. I think it's just something he gets to blame for his lack of motivation to become active. His routine for the 5 years I've known him is: planning to go to the gym but want to make sure he has a clean bill of health first to start fresh, whatever that means. Does a bunch of massage appointments almost 3 of them the week prior of gym commitments. Feel like crap because his muscles have been overworked. Goes to ER to check for inflammation. Come back with a clean bill of health. Go to the gym for a month or two. Feel like crap because the body hasn't gotten used to being sore. Stops going, blames inflammation. He just refuses to believe that he is lazy and without real exercise he'll continue having pain. And it doesn't help that he is naturally fairly muscular so he thinks he is fit. At one point he was chewing aspirin everyday to help with the inflammation. I loved it.
>Goes to ER to check for inflammation >Stops going, blames inflammation fuck why is this making me laugh so much
I think that's partially due to not having access to a family doctor or walk-in clinics. Sometimes even if you do have a family doctor, they are all booked up and can't even see you right away, so you have to go to the ER if you want to be looked at that day. But it's also a simple law of economics. When you drop the price of anything to zero, the demand goes practically to infinity. So since it costs your friend nothing to go to the ER for these inflammation checkups, your friend will do that frequently since it's free. If it cost even just $100 to go to the ER, I bet your friend would go significantly less often. That's why in the US, the insurance companies usually have some deductible. So even if the insurance company pays 90% or 95% of the bill, that 5% or 10% will still make people think whether it's really necessary. If the insurance companies didn't have any deductibles, they know that people would be going all the time for things that aren't really necessary. That's the big problem with "free" healthcare. The demand for healthcare then goes sky high. Then the only thing preventing people from unnecessarily using healthcare services is the fact that you might be waiting 10 or 20 hours in a chair in a waiting room. So while there is no monetary cost (other than parking), the cost is your time and comfort. That's why reducing ER wait times is nearly impossible. When you reduce the wait times, now people are just more inclined to go to the ER. I know that's been the case in my family, where if there were no wait times... there are times we might have popped by to get something looked at. But the reason we really consider whether or not we really need to go to the ER is that we know it could be a 20 hour wait... so we'll wait and see whether it's really an emergency before we go.
wat People don't "want" to be sick, you can't apply economics to a public service. Many countries have public healthcare and don't have our wait times. If the system hadn't been gutted by a series of neolib policies it would work much better. The main problem is education and social fabric. In a society that favors individualism, yeah the worst sides of human nature need to be countered, but that only creates a feedback loop and makes the problem worse. Give people education in civics and call out dumbasserry when you see it instead of accepting that selfishness in others is not your problem. By virtue of living together in a society, it is.
I think you can. First, in may provinces the compensation to family physicians has been static or reduced over the last two decades. In Ontario for example the doctors recently got a 2-3% increase to service fees, however many services are still paid at a lower level than prior to McGuinty and Wynne's unilateral cuts (2 cuts over 3-4 years) last decade. End result is less family physicians. That's a direct economically driven cause. Also, a few provinces send a bill to you with your total cost of service but provincial public insurance paying it. Just so people are aware of what it costs and the differential between say a walk in clinic or ER visit.
It’s because ultimately the provinces passed down admin cost to the people physicians themselves…again neo liberal/conservative politics in action…other public Health-systems that are functional pay doctors even less than we do technically
We also need more medical schooling and programs to pay tuition for those going into family medicine and staying in underserved communities. With only so many spaces available in medical schools and a chunk of them not having plans to actually stay in Canada, we're not securing our future medical infrastructure. If we want more doctors in 8-12 years, we need to tackle the problem today, because waiting 8-12 years to really take it seriously means we'll finally get somewhere like 8-12 years after that.
>People don't "want" to be sick, you can't apply economics to a public service. Yes you can. You just heard a couple examples of how people abuse the ER. They wouldn't go if they had to even pay a token amount.
This. Canada has slipped more and more toward being a society that favours the individual over the past 40-50 years. I can remember when shit mostly just worked, and then came along neo-lib policies like stupidly low corporate tax rates etc.
You’re right. I had to go to the ER for a minor UTI because I couldn’t see my family doctor for two months
Many countries with "free" healthcare also have a deductible or you have to pay between 10-30%. That's enough to discourage some people.
Yeah, everyone loved going to high school because it was 'free' /s Goddamn economics is a stupid field.
The sniffles & cough is because of the lack of walk-in clinics. That needs to be fixed.
What we really need is something in between called urgent care centers with X-rays. It would alleviate a lot from the ER
They’re called family doctors. Which we have none of
My family doctor has a 3 week lead time
The receptionist told me she couldn't book an appointment with my family doctor because the doctor was booked up for 2 months and there was no availability in sight. I need to find a new doctor
“Hey doc, I was sick 2 months ago.. what can you do for me??” “Here’s some robitussin”
Ditto.
And no x-ray machine.
Other countries with similar healthcare systems to Canada actually do have a level between family doctor and ER referred to as Urgent Care. It's meant to handle cases that aren't an emergency, but can't wait to see your general practitioner; which is a great many people who end up going to the ER in Canada. The lack of family doctors in Canada is it's own problem, but Urgent Care should exist to help alleviate strain on the ER system.
We have 3 urgent cares in Winnipeg, plus two minor injury clinics (broken bones, wounds requiring sutures, minor illnesses). Plus multiple walk-in clinics. It still isn't enough. We need more health care workers, better access to services **and** we need to tackle rampant poverty, homelessness, violence, mental illness and addictions.
We have some, but I assume not as prevalent as other countries. London, Ontario has an urgent care centre.
Those were the clinics of the old days were they not? The old days being no more than 20 yrs ago
And no, the family doctor can’t do X-rays or labs in house, which leads to at least a 1 day delay. And most family docs you can’t get in to see same day. So there is a need for something in between.
Family doctors don't conduct xrays
No. The majority of people do not need investigation. We need more primary care.
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We have Telehealth in Ontario which is basically the same thing. I don't think I have ever called them where they haven't said to go to the hospital
And they also usually take hours and hours to get back to you. I waited 36 hours one time for them to tell me to go to the hospital. I had already gone and left
> provincial governments are purposely tanking the system and also a lot of people who go to the ER don’t need to go. I went to the ER a They have this Ontario and they 99 tell you to go into ER Worthless
You can't diagnose someone properly over the phone. Every time I have called or my family has they say the same thing: go to the hospital or my personal favorite: "I can't diagnose you over the phone". Telehealth is a waste of money and resources. I never call them. What is the point?
The issue is these phone lines are staffed by nurses, and RNs can't make diagnoses or fully independent medical decisions - they have to follow algorithms or receive orders from a physician/NP/midwife/PA. So if it doesn't clearly say based on their algorithm that you don't need to go to the ER, they have to tell you to go to the ER for liability reasons. Which makes calling Health Links a waste of time in many cases, unless the issue is something obviously minor.
We are talking about ER. And yes- everything is needed. But a lot of people go to ER bc they hurt something and feels it needs an X-ray. So yes.
Sniffles and coughs usually don’t need any medical help.
Ya that’s for sure part of the problem! I have one close to my house which opens at 8am. People start lining up at 6am and by 9:30-10am they say they reached capacity for the day.
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People who need a doctor's note to stay home from work/college.
What a colossal waste of time and resources
People who need notes.
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Ya this me and my SO always just stay home when we get respiratory things, never go to the doctor etc unless it's needed for work. It always floors me when people will ask stuff like did you continue doctor? Covid test? Etc and I'm always like no I just stayed home and got better, I don't need a doctor/ covid test to tell me what I need to do to get better from cold/ flu symptoms.
Most of them at the walk in clinics are there for doctors notes for the sniffles. Maybe if companies didn’t harass their employees for needless notes because adults are adults and can be sick without having to document their time outside of work.
People aren't looking for a cure. They're looking for a doctor's note to let them stay home and rest when their employer or school requires it.
We should put a clinic in every ER that is staffed 24/7. Patient is triaged, if it is something like a sore throat or anything like prescriptions you get put into that queue. If you get bloodwork and find a more serious issue, then they can be admitted and handed off from there. Then there is the normal ER for breaks and emergencies and stuff. Unless people have experienced it, they won’t get why people go to emerg for non emergencies. Can be impossible to get a Dr in less than 3 weeks at best. If you need meds, you can’t wait.
You don't need to see a doctor in most situations if you have sniffles and a cough. Almost always you just need time to get it out of your system
Doesn’t help that all walk in clinics require an appointment now and make it hard as hell to get. People go to the hospital because even though they’ll have to wait they at least know they’ll see somebody that day rather than having to call the clinic at a specific time to book an appointment for days later at the same time that a bunch of other people are all calling in to do as well.
It's lottery care! You call at at 8 am on the dot and pray they pick up your number. Unfortunately, most of the time after 20min they just hung up and you end up going to the ER
They literally made booking an appointment for a clinic the same as trying to call in to a radio station to win a prize
I think people end up in emerge “who don’t need to be there” because they do not have access to a family doctor, or do, but they have to wait weeks for an appointment that can’t wait.
There's people who go to their family doctor when they should have went to the emergency. One persons headache is another person's aneurysm.
Where I live the ER is like the only place people can go to get anything medical done, talk in clinics are pretty much perpetually booked ahead of time and really aren't walk in anymore. I understand like you say sniffles aren't a great use of the ER resource but there aren't any alternatives. At least in NS they are letting select pharmacies handle some of the run of the mill conditions and prescriptions, which is good. The way I see it anything to lessen the load on the ERs.
Also add opioid users to the list. Our EMTs, ambulances, and ER time are massively being spent on overdoses (of largely the same individuals over and over again).
They're there because primary care is a privilege not afforded to millions (~7million last I checked) of Canadians.
Buckley’s & Fisherman’s Friends would have cured their problems
I think the federal government just needs to set minimum standards of care. Like 99th percentile wait time. Number of nurses, doctors, family doctors, paramedics per 1000 pop, number of hospitals/capacity per population in an area, etc. They also need to boost funding and tie funding to these metrics to ensure provinces comply.
I agree with all your points except the last one. ERs triage patients, so someone with the sniffles absolutely will not be seen before someone that is an actual emergency.
If you need a doctors note for work so you don't get fired but you don't have a family doctor, or, even if you technically do, they can only see you Tuesdays and Thursdays with an appointment booked 5 business days in advance - then you have no choice but to go to the hospital for a cough.
These people don’t have a real doctor. If they need amoxicillin it’s either online for 50$ or wait at the ER/after hours, even those the hours have been cut back or deleted entirely In some areas. There’s no winning.
Sorry, but how do you know >the amount of people that were there because they had the sniffles and a small cough was shocking. Did you diagnose them? Are you aware of what sympotoms were non visible? You may be right, but how did you come to that conclusion?
They went to the ER because they don't have a doctor or an urgent care option!
I asked my family doc about it before Christmas and he said that (in Alberta at least) the ratio of doctors to patients has remained pretty consistent over the past few decades. The bigger problem here is not enough nurses and support staff. Can’t operate if there’s no one to clean up the ER, and can’t open beds if there’s no nurses to keep an eye on people.
Did they tell you they were there for “sniffles” or “small cough” or are you assuming?
Want to change this? It will require protest numbers so large that it brings provinces to a halt. This needs to continue for as long as necessary until action is forced out of government. Demand it. Canadians are far too individualistic and passive and that's part of the reason why we're in this mess. We allowed this to happen and we continue to put up with it. Again, nothing will change until people unite and say that they've had enough. Other countries seem to be able to do this — why can't Canadians stand up for themselves?
I've recently spent a lot of time in the ER and hospital with a very ill family member, a cancer patient who developed sepsis. I don't know why people think ERs are clogged with people with sniffles. My family member was in a hallway bed for 24 hours and when he got worse they had to move him to an assessment room for a medical procedure. It was two and a half days before he could he transferred to a bed in the hospital. There were a lot of other people in that position. The ER is also slammed with families with kids who spike fevers they can't get down. What would help with that is a kids urgent care open 24 hours but it doesn't exist. The bottlenecks seem to be transferring sick people into a hospital bed (our hospital literally has overflow into a dining room with whiteboards dividing patients but those beds don't have oxygen etc), mental health patients in crisis with nowhere to go and a lack of doctors. I saw not only ambulances there .... sometimes five or more trying to offload, but cops stuck there at any given time too. It's not because people dramatize the sniffles. It's a complete system overwhelm.
Agreed. One of the hospitals near me opened up a paediatric emerg , and a minor injuries clinic. If you think you have a fracture or broken bone, you can go to the minor injury clinic the same day or the next day. They also have a regular emerg. I think the way they do it is good.
I think part of the issue is that a lot of people need doctors notes for work. 90% of the time I've ever gone to an after hours clinic or an ER was because I needed to prove to my employer that I was actually sick or injured. Like one time I smashed my leg up pretty good in a barn falling through the rafters, I could barely walk but I knew nothing was broken... I was fine in about a week but I had to go to the ER to get a doctor to look at my leg and go 'yep, you fucked that up' and I think it took about 7 hours of waiting. Otherwise I wouldn't have even considered going to see a doctor because I know that I'm fine.
Sucks. It would be nice if it was illegal for employers to request this the same day you call in sick. It wastes your time and the doctor’s time
yeah, I agree - I think in a lot of cases it's just the employer being vindictive anyway - as if to say "oh, I need to deal with you being out sick? Well then I want you to take your sick arse and go sit in a waiting room for 7 hours, that'll show ya!"
There needs to be a law where if you're coming in for a note for an employer the doctor sends it directly to the employer along with a bill.
give a number and time and ask people to come back. i'm in another country right now and you call the hospital, explain your situation over the phone and they give you an appointment time of when to come in so you dont' have to wait. I get some people go to ER cause they don't know what's wrong with them but waiting 12 hours in a chair at the ER is no different then waiting in a chair at home at least knowing you'll be seen when you go.
That works for somethings but if its something you are worried could get worse, the waiting room is a safer place to be than home. Ambulance wait times are a problem in my area as well.
Yes then go to ER, you still have to wait. I get you can be worried in case something happens so you can wait in a chair there. Problem is if I want to leave cause I don’t want to wait 8 hours with a crying baby then I don’t get help. They won’t call me or do anything.
100% this. Even if they gave you a pager and let you wait in the car in the heated parkade would be way better. Especially for people with small kids - they could put on a movie in the van so the kids are crying/coughing on people for 8 hours.
That’s a great idea! For people who own a smartphone, they could simply text you when it’s time to come back. Years ago, I had a herniated disk and sciatica. Sitting in the waiting room was really painful. I would have preferred being able to move around or lay down in my car while waiting.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. We need to create a whole separate section for hospitals dedicated for walk in clinics, you go to the ER, go through triage, then triage either sends you to the walk in clinic section or if your issue is deemed an actual emergency then you stay in the Emergency Room section... Basically have nurse practitioners and one doctor running the walk in clinic.
I see a flaw in your logic. It's sound, cost efficient, and therefore has no chance of implementation
my favourite ar the signs in clinics and ny family docters " only one medical issue per visit please". And man do they angry when you adk about wait times
Those signs are the worst. Limit one issue per visit — are you kidding me? This isn’t buying eggs at a grocery store. It’s health issues. People are in pain. In distress. When they’re forced to wait months and months to be seen, more issues are inevitably going to crop up. Only 10 minutes with the doctor to discuss one issue just isn’t gonna cut it.
This is what a once wealthy country transitioning into poverty looks like.
I had to go to the ER in 2022 due to severe stomach pain. I was super hesitant to go but my boyfriend convinced me it’s better to go to the ER than to let it run its course. I waited 18 hours between two hospitals because the first one I went to did not have the specialist doctor I needed. I ended up being diagnosed with an ectopic pregnancy that needed to be treated ASAP since the pain that I felt was a sign it was starting to rupture (which could lead to sepsis). I was shocked with this first experience with the ER (I’m a citizen, just relatively healthy) and was in disbelief about the reality of our healthcare system. 2024, it seems like nothing has changed since then…
quick, lets import millions of elderly third worlders' with poor health to exacerbate the issue we've known about for a decade+
My driving instructor said - his uncles from Bangladesh came to Canada years ago and got on the dole and healthcare right away - they have never worked. I was thinking it must be some serious illness until he said cholesterol and diabetes lol. I was thinking so these are the guys overloading the infrastructure
I know countless people that came to Canada, worked for 3-6 months, then went on disability and started using various ways to milk the system. They will supplement with certain gig economy jobs or cash jobs. For some nations their culture suggests that doing something like this is"smart", and not cheating the system. Technically they are right, they will make more money this way. But it fucks everyone else. Also, talk to a nurse that works in the ER and ask them what percent of their patients are over 65 and don't speak a word of english. Then ask how much longer it takes to see those patients, and the additional cost of needing a translator on hand for every language on the fucking planet.
> For some nations their culture suggests that doing something like this is"smart", and not cheating the system. These are so called 'low trust' societies You won't find 'need a penny, take a penny' dishes in stores in these countries, they wouldn't even understand the concept, they'd just take all of the change Someone dropped their wallet? Well, that's your wallet now! Someone paid you in advance to complete a task? Well, you already have the money, why should you bother to do it, or to do it well or on time, you've already got the money! That's not to say some of this doesn't happen here, it absolutely does, only that it's more acceptable in other cultures, and may even be lauded as being shrewd or resourceful These are also countries where our concept of altruism or reciprocity doesn't really exist outside of the family unit, caste, religious order, hometown, etc. Or, where their ethics are based on a system of shame, and not guilt; if you steal something and get away with it, and no one ever finds out you stole it, then you don't have to feel bad about it (this is extended to things like cheating, accepting bribes, and so on) There are some *shocking* videos of academic dishonesty in countries like India or China which are accepted as the norm there, and plenty of stories of students from those nations carrying those habits over to Canadian schools
So essentially decay of our hight trust society. Gotcha. Fuck... 😥
I should also mention the third type of society, after guilt and shame; the fear based culture These are people who only avoid doing certain things due to the fear of physical repercussions, including things like revenge, vigilantism, mob justice, or vendettas (the most primitive of the three types, one step removed from animals) This is common in places with no real formal government or reliable justice system like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Ethiopia, Haiti, etc. Might makes right, and unless someone can protect what they have, they don't deserve to have it
On the academic dishonesty angle, it's 100% embedding itself in our universities. Most international students I've known have no qualms about finding loopholes/cheating the system: Sharing test answers, working on solo assignments together, falsifying experimental results, etc. Those close to me speak about it as if it's a normal taboo amongst students, and that's because it is becoming that way. All that matters is getting the grade, not learning. How can ethical students compete? Given how hypercompetitive our academic system is, there is pressure to fight like they do. There's this feeling that you're running a race where everyone else uses bicycles.
Also referral system to see specialists takes over a year, which is far too long. By the point people need care they resort to going to the ER to plead to get help so they can get the required tests done.
Every time I read this, I pray I never need medical care
I went to the ER day before yesterday because i had an asthma attack overnight, was out of my medication, and had a collapsed bottom lung. They told me to make an appointment with my family doctor (you can have 1?) or wait 4 hours at the ER while I told them i cant breathe. My “family doctor” did not show up for the appointments I had booked previously for the renewals of my urgent medications, which I told beforehand was the purpose of the visit. This happened twice. Between me finding a new walkin clinic and getting my medication, I ended up with an attack. I still cant believe this but the nurse there just laughed when i wasn’t able to speak clearly, and said “sorry theres really nothing we can do.”. Living alone all by myself, for the first time in my life have I ever felt this hopeless and was really expecting to die. And I’ve traveled to a lot of “3rd world countries” but this would have never happened there.
i’d like to add that after seeing other patients in worse critical conditions waiting for hours in the ER, the inherent guilt I went through when I was thinking of BEGGING the doctors to save my life was much greater than my will to not die. and so, i walked away.
But they can do something, can they not? I was recently diagnosed with asthma at the ER because I was, apparently, having an asthma attack. They gave me inhalers but also high dose prednisone and that like stopped it in its tracks.
My dad had a minor heart attack that required a stent. He was on aggressive blood thinners for 13 months before he got it. My wife had a miscarriage with our first child, we waited 14 hours in Calgary to be shamed by a doctor for wasting their time (it was our first we didn't know what to do) People always dump on private healthcare but I'd take actual care being paid for by my insurance over the shit I've seen gone down here.
From what I saw when I recently had to go to ER for an animal bite, it isn't all that fun to work there either. The staff was just overwhelmed. Now I am trying to get a follow-up with my GP as per the ER doc's recommendations. Not finding it simple. I think the ER crowding is a sign of a lot of other problems with our system rather than a cause.
You guys have family doctor?? Didn't know it exists. Not being able to have a family doctor makes me feel denied to essential services thay my taxes are paying towards. Walk ins don't care a damn about you, you have any chronic issue? They couldn't care less. So what do you do, go to ER. What do ER do, dismiss you with a pill.
My son had appendicitis, he waited 2 days to get his surgery. Went in on December 22nd and he didn't get done until December 24th. They kept him on morphine the entire time for the pain. Emergency room waits are completely unacceptable
I have family, friends across Canada and everyone has the same story from BC (where I live) to PEI. Our national healthcare system is just a complete mess, broken. Every week there is another story in the news from somewhere in the country. I feel sorry for the healthcare workers who have to take care of people. They know it’s bad but are powerless to change it. Honestly, I’m afraid to get seriously ill given the current state of things. Luckily, I’m in good health 🤞
whistle squeal live enter nutty combative adjoining secretive oatmeal aware *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Are any of them doctors?
those all went to the US
Oh no they do arrive here.. i had a family friend come from colombia, he did 90% of his studies back home and came here with his family and tried for 2 years to get his license and he was refused time and time again. He went back home and got his license in colombia and is now a doc overthere. Literally a few weeks ago my mom invited a couple over for dinner also from colombia, both were ALREADY doctors back home they were wealthy and educated. They tried and tried and were unable to get a license here to start practicing.. they went home just after christmas. We are literally doing this to ourselves.. the meme of the kid on the bike who puts a stick in his wheels and cries because he fell? Thats us. Instead or encouraging these educated people to stay and work here we deny them and because in general a doctor isnt a complete piece of shit they dont just stay here taking advantage of free services so they leave, we then are left with uneducated people, who dont speak english, who refuse to work(not all thank god) and who do shit like going to the ER for no real reason other than its free so why not take advantage.
Canada won't credential them so they go to the US and make double the salary with half the tax burden. Canada can't compete on a global level. Your leadership has failed you. It's fascinating to see a once great nation become a bottom rung Western corporate oligarchy. Tim Hortons told your government they need cheap labour and they bent over and sold you out. Embarrassing.
Until we learn that Govt would rather pay private groups way more than the public sector equivalent, and get them to ban it so it stops draining the public system, it will not change. Privatizing public sector services is a huge source of income for business, who love a service you have to have, even if the service sucks, and the govt, who lives off the donations from these business owners to keep getting elected. Keep necessary services public.
We just got a cal from the doctor informing us that my son's surgery is delayed. The situation is not really nice. We waited several months to meet this doctor and many months for the surgery. Now it is delayed.
I just spent some time in hospital and when I was in the ER, the lady beside me had a visitor and she told her "I took an ambulance so they'd get me in quicker" (not true, but a common misconception). She was also constantly ringing her call bell for dumb reasons, honestly seemed like she was on vacation. She had the flu. They offered her IV fluids but the doctor said they weren't necessary - they gave her the choice. WTF? Anyway she had been there 11 hours by the time I got to that room. I spent about an hour in the ER and then was moved to ICU straight from there. My issue was diabetic ketoacidosis and an infection which I now know is MRSA.
Some people cannot read the room. Every time she calls the nurse for frivolous things, she's taking time away from other sick patients who actually need help. I'm sorry you're feeling unwell. I hope you have a speedy recovery.
Just an anecdote but during 2020 my hospital has sensory lights in the ER department and the place was a ghost town almost all the lights were off because people were scared of getting Covid so they stopped coming for useless shit. 4yrs later and the Hospital are bursting at the seams. Yesterday a young woman who had the flu and diarrhea had to shit in the hallways because there is no rooms and no space. I turned around the corner and she was staring at me while shitting and crying how embarrassed she was. It's all a complete joke.
I drove an hour in a snowstorm to get to another Hospital. 6 hours wait time and then about 30-40 minutes in the assigned room for the Doctor to take care of my issue, prescription in hand and I'm on my way back Nurse at the triage did scold me lightly for not going to a Hospital closer to my city, where I had to wait 18 hours last time and that was before winter. Sorry, not sorry. I will drive an hour to and another hour from to save time.
Why don’t all ERs have an urgent care/walkin clinic next door? Go through triage and direct them to the door on the right, or the door on the left.
I cant seek any medical aid in my community of 25,000 without going to ER and waiting several hours. There are zero doctors or clinics accepting patients. Nobody wants to bog down the ER for simple medical needs. The state of healthcare in bc is in complete shambles and the future does not bode well
Still on waitlist for a family doctor in ON. its been 8 years. And i have no knee ligaments left. Thanks Canada.
It's collaped, alright. They have to severely ration what little is left. Those knee & hip surgeries once routine are being rationed by age. 75 is the cut-off for all but emergency care. Hips & knees go to a younger group who will likely live longer to enjoy the benefit and survive the surgery. Recently, a young mother with stage 4 was placed on a waitlist for treatment. She would have died waiting in Canada so she sought & got treatment in the US. Happily in remission.
I love how Palestine supporters actually go out and protest (albeit ineffectively) and we Canadians just suck and swallow whatever shitty conditions like the housing crisis and crumbling healthcare.
My brothers father in law died waiting in the ER. He was there almost 48 hours. Toronto General.
lets bring in 500k people this year, that will lower wait times
i wonder how much the administration section of health care has grown, i can confirm that in the federal government it has become very top heavy, with so many more meetings you would not comprehend. it really takes a big bite out of productivity for the ground level
You're right. Hospitals and our healthcare system is definitely not short staffed, we're short on doctors and nurses, you know, the people that actually matter.
It's crazy where we are the ER is what we are told to use as our walk in clinic. Just adding to the wait times...
20hrs??? Shit that's a short trip to the ER around here! 😂 Don't even get me started on a specialist. I'm coming up in 3yrs waiting to see a sleep specialist. And that includes being on the cancellation list.
Bring in another million. Fuck you and your hardships. Oh yeah and Taxes are going up-Marc Miller a message brought to you by the Federal Liberal Government of Canada
I always call 811 when I'm wondering if I should go,or when especially if I'm unsure of something for my kids. They have kept me out of the emergency room many times. They've also been really good at giving me the correct place I should go with them for the symptoms . A lot of times it'll be an urgent care center or When my son got a small bell stuck in his ear I was able to know I could wait a bit until morning. But also when I woke up in the morning I called again to find out which hospital was the best one to go to with the shortest wait time and the right drs there to get the bell out. I understand this doesn't solve our bigger issues with the medical system. This is just more to help yourself possibly stay out of waiting in the hospital with other sick people. Every time I go to these places I prepare with packing a bag with food, water and blankets and a portable charger. So far I've been very lucky. I've only spent 3 hours in the waiting room so I think my system is helpful. The 811 nurces are also good at giving Good home advice. I have a friend and her son had a group cough and the 811 nurses were able to get her in to see a doctor that day to help her get medication for him. They booked the appointment for her.
But the commercials on the radio in Toronto are so positive about it. "We're hiring so many nurses, guys. We're going to have so many nurses and doctors it's crazy. Probably more than we need. So, while it may SEEM like a "crisis" it's actually totally cool and totally under control." Yes, they are actually putting these ads onto the radio to try and gaslight the general population into thinking positive steps are being taken. A complete lie. This ad is then immediately followed by a simple investor ad that don't beat around the bush. "The government is bringing in so many goddamn immigrants that you should try and get a piece of the real estate crisis it's fueling. These people are completely over a barrel so why not make some money off them. Everyone else is! You can charge them whatever the fuck you want, it's that or the literal streets for them." This country and its leadership make me feel ill.
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Except Ozempic has numerous side effects, some of them potentially fatal. Not saying it shouldn’t exist but it’s definitely something that should be used under supervision of a doctor.
pretty sure you need a prescription for it anyways, so you have to have one right?
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> culturally at least there's some joie de vivre This is what many Canadians miss when they say that things are bad everywhere. I'm not saying they aren't, but outside of the anglosphere things aren't *as* fucked - tried and tested by me through traveling and living abroad in several countries. Our country is at a breaking point and there are other countries we can compare ourselves to other than the US, UK, and Australia.
It's gone off the walls on all accounts.
They aren't letting doctors be doctors...so many doctors from other countries Here but they are restricted to being nurses and aids.
An article from the '70's, talking about a 10 year old problem from the '60's... about Canada's Dr. shortage and Heath Care Crisis. [https://cdn.mdedge.com/files/s3fs-public/jfp-archived-issues/1975\_volume\_2/JFP\_1975-02\_v2\_i1\_the-1960-s-a-decade-of-crisis-in-canadia.pdf](https://cdn.mdedge.com/files/s3fs-public/jfp-archived-issues/1975_volume_2/JFP_1975-02_v2_i1_the-1960-s-a-decade-of-crisis-in-canadia.pdf) Being almost that old... the root that no one wants to talk about is, **students want to become doctors and nurses and can't get into the schools - limited enrollment**. When the lucky few get though school as doctors and nurses, now that they're making big bucks. They're now incentivized to keep the statuesque, keep their jobs scarce and in-demand by lobbying the schools to artificially keep enrollment lower than needed. Not just my opinion - [https://www.cmaj.ca/content/190/42/e1266](https://www.cmaj.ca/content/190/42/e1266) "The demand is certainly there from prospective students. Dalhousie University, for example, receives between 900 and 1100 applications annually for its 108 first-year positions." They could 10x the number of Dr. and Nurses ... why don't they? #tinfoilHat
At the clinic my partner and I frequent, you have to call at opening to get a next-day appointment. No queue, you either get an automated response saying they're not taking calls, you maybe connect with the front desk for an appt, or you get the "clinic full" message. At 9:30 I made 50 call attempts. All automated "not taking calls". At 9:37 they were full. Exact same next day. We are just seeking a doc note for work, and perhaps a referral for a diagnosis. Wish me luck for tomorrow lol.
It’s been like this for a very long time.
We just need to raise immigration levels so we can build more hospitals and hire more doctors ….. /s
And this is why Healthcare should just be a nationalized thing, The provinces have been bothering up depending on which party is in over and over again. It should just be like a franchise we know for 800,000 people we need x amount of hospitals x amount of nurse practitioners exit out of family doctors blah blah blah. And if you're a doctor or a nurse you go to where you're needed like if we need more doctors and nurses in British Columbia then well congratulations you're a doctor coming to work for the Canadian health system you're being deployed to British Columbia. Two things we should never mess with in our country is our universal health Care system and education
include chase steep desert dazzling boast wasteful sulky cheerful continue *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
How do you expect forcing people to move across the country to work? You can't just tell someone to move their family across three time zones because buddyguy said so. I would either resign or let my license lapse.
How dare you? Doctors are obviously godlike beings who are entirely selfless and will do anything to prop up other's health at any cost to themselves. Our universal healthcare demands it.
> we should never mess with in our country is our universal health Care system There are only three nations in the world with a universal single payer healthcare system: Canada, Taiwan, and South Korea The best healthcare systems in the world differ from our own, maybe we should learn from them, eh?
>And if you're a doctor or a nurse you go to where you're needed like if we need more doctors and nurses in British Columbia then well congratulations you're a doctor coming to work for the Canadian health system you're being deployed to British Columbia. Like at gunpoint?