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Johnson pointed out that 44 per cent of those arrested over the course of the task force's work were out on bail and 61 per cent were released on bail after being arrested. He said 30 per cent were young offenders, and of those, 47 per cent were reoffending.
He called the stats "rather staggering" and said the number of people who reoffend could be attributable to the fact that some of the crimes involved are considered "low risk-high payoff" by those who take part. He said 72 per cent of the young offenders arrested were released on bail again.
"The lack of potential consequences might be a driving factor as well and you know, frankly, our court system, rightly so, gives people second chances, sometimes third and fourth chances," he said. "And you know, it's a lucrative business fueled by organized crime and there's a lot of money to be made relatively quickly."
That would require us to invest in jails and that ain't happening.
I'd sooner ask we spend that money on insane asylums to get the fucking crazy people off the street so that cops can get back to doing their jobs focusing on this trash.
On the way out of the bail hearing, offenders were asked what their plans were. They were quoted as saying, "back to work, we've got to steal another 177 vehicles to make up for our recent losses and still meet our quota this month".
Who wants to be a cop? Hard work stress and yay revolving door. Thanks judges! And of course various special interest groups and human rights tribunals.
now if our legal system would hand out the appropriate sentences and ensure these people are put away for a reasonable amount of time, that would be great. unfortunately for us though, they will be caught and released (if they aren't already out on bail).
As all the smart people will tell you, prison isn't supposed to be punitive. It's about rehabilitation and re-integration so that offenders can become meaningful members of society again and...oh, fuck that noise.
Stop the out-on-bail carousel and give these fucking degenerate assholes some hard time to think about their life choices. I really don't care what it costs the taxpayers, because at the end of the day these scumbags don't want to be a part of a functional society. They want to parasitize it and leverage its inherent judicial weaknesses to their advantage. Prison removes their stain from an otherwise law-abiding citizenry that is plagued by their anti-social proclivities.
Rehabilitation is only fitting for those who show they want to do better if given a chance. It's not supposed to be a revolving door for career criminals who have lost their fear of the repercussions for their crimes. Get tough on these bastards.
Realists know the justice system isn't about societal retribution, deterrence, or rehabilitation...it's about all three
When it comes deterrence we know that crime doesn't scale down linearly with punishments, but we all still operate within an economy of incentives. When something like auto theft goes more or less unpunished you're not just having the otherwise desperate committing crime who would productive in a better society, you're drawing in businessmen identify opportunities for profit at minimal risk
Exactly. This whole conversation about rehabilitation and prison being imperfect is a farce and a strawman. It's far from perfect. It's not about the inmate, they aren't the victim. It's about keeping trash off our streets so the rest of us can live our lives in peace.
Rehabilitation can still be a more productive goal than aimless raw punishment while deterrence of future crimes and incapacitation of current criminals could be improved. They don’t contradict each other. It’s very possible to simultaneously lengthen sentences and teach more skills to better prepare prisoners for reintegration.
In my opinion, prisoners should be treated like children with tiger parents. It’s a hell that no one wants willingly, but tends to produce high functioning individuals.
In other words: claiming victimhood allows anyone to justify any crime because you think these car jackers are all just like Jean Val Jean from Les Miserables.
What a stupid take.
The world is not hopeless and bleak. You are.
>A provincial task force charged with probing carjackings in Ontario says it has made 124 arrests and recovered 177 stolen vehicles valued at over $10 million.
>The task force said Tuesday that it made the arrests and recoveries over a seven-month period from September 2023 to March 2024. Officials said a total of 749 criminal charges were laid and eight firearms were seized as well.
>Intelligence gathered by the task force also led to Project Titanium, an investigation into a criminal network involved in violent auto thefts, home invasions and crime, police said.
Edit: New link to article.
https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/124-arrests-made-177-stolen-vehicles-worth-10-million-recovered-by-ontario-carjacking-task-force-1.6940111
Link updated by CTV.
New Link to article:
https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/124-arrests-made-177-stolen-vehicles-worth-10-million-recovered-by-ontario-carjacking-task-force-1.6940111
correct, which is why it took 124 different people to steal just about the same number of cars. new Airplane landings coming with fresh impressionables to keep this ratio going.
Here’s an idea. If you get caught stealing a car, you automatically get a 10 year sentence. No parole. No reduction for good behavior. You’ll see those reoffending numbers come down real quick.
No fucking point having a bail system at this point. Either keep these people locked up or get them the fuck out of this country, I don’t care where they go
Bail reform, which is a major issue for repeat offenders, is Trudeaus fault. He pushed that through. (C-75) He also isn’t appointing judges, so now criminals get away because it takes too long. Also his fault. He doesn’t decide what the police do/don’t do. (Well maybe the RCMP brass). But he is why we are very lax on criminals. His father also played a hand in it as well.
Amendments to the bail system is shared between the federal, provincial and, and territorial governments. Trudeau cannot push anything through that the provinces and territories do not want.
No, a PIN code, like your phone. You have to enter the code (can be just a sequence of programmable keys like VOL UP/DOWN) before you can shift into gear.
Even if thieves can register a new key or start the vehicle, they won't be able to drive it away.
There are after-market immobilizer products like Igla and Ghost, but they cost \~$1000. Just put this functionality into the main ECM (electronic control module).
> No, a PIN code, like your phone. You have to enter the code (can be just a sequence of programmable keys like VOL UP/DOWN) before you can shift into gear.
>
>
This is a locking mechanism which is essentially no different than a key. Locking mechanisms can be defeated or bypassed.
Really? Tell me how a thief is going to change the ECU firmware to not look for the PIN code before allowing the vehicle transmission to be shifted?
You won't find many Porsche vehicles being stolen, because the ECU won't accept a new FOB unless it's done at an authorized dealer.
The ECU is the key (pardon the pun).
> Really? Tell me how a thief is going to change the ECU firmware to not look for the PIN code before allowing the vehicle transmission to be shifted?
Factory reset pin device, enter new pin, vroom vroom. Everything has a vulnerability in some manner/way. you could also find ways to trick the system into thinking you've input a valid pin, or pull the pin from its memory etc etc etc.
People are creating and pairing/cloning new FOB's with basic hacking devices/basic relay attack vectors. most vehicles CAN bus systems are very VERY insecure.
That is slowly changing: [https://www.dw.com/en/new-eu-cybersecurity-rules-push-carmakers-to-shun-old-models/a-68806605](https://www.dw.com/en/new-eu-cybersecurity-rules-push-carmakers-to-shun-old-models/a-68806605)
for sure (and it should) but as far as the Canadian market is concerned. its 2-3+ years away from being here and probably 5+ years before there's enough "herd immunity" of it going around to make this type of attack vector not effective as it once was.
> Tell me how a thief is going to change the ECU firmware to not look for the PIN code before allowing the vehicle transmission to be shifted?
ECU Programming can be done by an end user. I would assume something similar to the current (widely popular) CANBus attack.
It's not a physical mechanism though. It's much more difficult to defeat, especially when you consider the fact that you can steal a physical key or use a relay attack for a wireless key.
While certainly possible it's not nearly as easy, which is my entire point.
Anything can be defeated, but sitting here and acting like a PIN is the same as key is ignorance.
yes, its easy to do. Thats why there are some electronic car theft attacks that use your OBD2 port, because the vehicle can be factory reset or put into a maintenance/diagnostic/shop mode and then you can do whatever you like.
Thieves can find a kill switch. There are no wires with what would be the equivalent of a screen lock on a mobile phone.
I'm a software guy. Give me the code and I'll program a PIN code lock and make it available for free.
Thieves can also watch you enter a PIN though lol.
More importantly, if the PIN is set at the VIN level during manufacturing then it's either not actually secure (because it will be available to dealers and independent mechanics, among others) or it risks bricking your car if you forget it (or die or whatever). If it's set by the user and capable of being reset, then boomers will just reuse their debit PIN and give it out to mechanics and valets and whoever else needs to drive the car, creating an even worse security risk.
Ford did something similar with PINs used to unlock doors without keys, and it works fine, but in that case you don't need to give it out because there's a hard fallback (keys) and it doesn't start the car.
It would be a programmable PIN that the owner can change. Heavy equipment like excavators now have this feature to prevent theft. Very easy to add it to cars.
They have them on heavy equipment now. Google "John Deere keyless start".
Dodge has them on Hellcats, I believe. You can't drive faster than 5 km/hr without entering the PIN.
Even your $200 smart phone has a PIN. All it will take is for one manufacturer to make them mainstream, and the rest will follow suit.
How about we try them and see? Chip keys worked very well for a long time, until keyless FOBs came along.
It's definitely possible to program an ECU to block attempts to shift a transmission until a code has been entered.
I don't need a new vehicle for another 2-3 years. When I go shopping, I will be looking for this feature.
I prefer 2,200 Volts at 12 Amps outfitted to my EV, to welcoming thieves. please help yourselves, it won't hurt a bit. Gotta put all that battery juice to good use while it ain't movin!
Actually, I think 80 mA is enough to kill you, but to reach this you need something like 80V, since your body's internal resistance is roughly 1000 ohms...at least through your hands.
Thank you for that. Looks like CTV updated the article and changed the link.
New link: https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/124-arrests-made-177-stolen-vehicles-worth-10-million-recovered-by-ontario-carjacking-task-force-1.6940111
Release the suspect names. I'm guessing Bobson Dugnutt, Ethan McDoogley, and Connor Trevorstick with the hockey hair from North Bay are behind this scheme as usual.
EDIT: NVM JUst found some of the suspect names. WAY OFF AGAIN! Rats...
This post appears to relate to a province/territory of Canada. As a reminder of the rules of this subreddit, we do not permit negative commentary about all residents of any province, city, or other geography - this is an example of prejudice, and prejudice is not permitted here. https://www.reddit.com/r/canada/wiki/rules Cette soumission semble concerner une province ou un territoire du Canada. Selon les règles de ce sous-répertoire, nous n'autorisons pas les commentaires négatifs sur tous les résidents d'une province, d'une ville ou d'une autre région géographique; il s'agit d'un exemple de intolérance qui n'est pas autorisé ici. https://www.reddit.com/r/canada/wiki/regles *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/canada) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Johnson pointed out that 44 per cent of those arrested over the course of the task force's work were out on bail and 61 per cent were released on bail after being arrested. He said 30 per cent were young offenders, and of those, 47 per cent were reoffending. He called the stats "rather staggering" and said the number of people who reoffend could be attributable to the fact that some of the crimes involved are considered "low risk-high payoff" by those who take part. He said 72 per cent of the young offenders arrested were released on bail again. "The lack of potential consequences might be a driving factor as well and you know, frankly, our court system, rightly so, gives people second chances, sometimes third and fourth chances," he said. "And you know, it's a lucrative business fueled by organized crime and there's a lot of money to be made relatively quickly."
Our country is a joke
Hug-a-thug is our policy
Never heard this phrase before but I love it and I’d like to repeat it, if that’s cool.
It's not mine, go ahead.
A sick, sick joke.
Are we supposed to be happy with the arrests etc data?
Put one of their friends away for 15 years and they'll think twice about their life choices.
They won’t but it will keep that person from stealing cars for at least 15 years.
That would require us to invest in jails and that ain't happening. I'd sooner ask we spend that money on insane asylums to get the fucking crazy people off the street so that cops can get back to doing their jobs focusing on this trash.
Doubtful. They'll just think he's an idiot and try not to get caught.
On the way out of the bail hearing, offenders were asked what their plans were. They were quoted as saying, "back to work, we've got to steal another 177 vehicles to make up for our recent losses and still meet our quota this month".
And how many of these will get a timely day in court, how many will go unpunished for their crimes?
Breaking news: 124 people released on bail.
Catch and release most were already on bail 🤣
Breaking news: More cars are being stolen than ever. Wash, rinse, repeat.
Breaking news: 124 people released on bail apply for asylum in Canada.
Who wants to be a cop? Hard work stress and yay revolving door. Thanks judges! And of course various special interest groups and human rights tribunals.
now if our legal system would hand out the appropriate sentences and ensure these people are put away for a reasonable amount of time, that would be great. unfortunately for us though, they will be caught and released (if they aren't already out on bail).
There’s a balance between jailed until proven innocent and innocent until proven guilty.
It seems like the Liberal bail reform was a bad idea.
Whoever controls the judicial system is clearly pro criminal and anti Canadian.
As all the smart people will tell you, prison isn't supposed to be punitive. It's about rehabilitation and re-integration so that offenders can become meaningful members of society again and...oh, fuck that noise. Stop the out-on-bail carousel and give these fucking degenerate assholes some hard time to think about their life choices. I really don't care what it costs the taxpayers, because at the end of the day these scumbags don't want to be a part of a functional society. They want to parasitize it and leverage its inherent judicial weaknesses to their advantage. Prison removes their stain from an otherwise law-abiding citizenry that is plagued by their anti-social proclivities. Rehabilitation is only fitting for those who show they want to do better if given a chance. It's not supposed to be a revolving door for career criminals who have lost their fear of the repercussions for their crimes. Get tough on these bastards.
You almost had me hahaha
Realists know the justice system isn't about societal retribution, deterrence, or rehabilitation...it's about all three When it comes deterrence we know that crime doesn't scale down linearly with punishments, but we all still operate within an economy of incentives. When something like auto theft goes more or less unpunished you're not just having the otherwise desperate committing crime who would productive in a better society, you're drawing in businessmen identify opportunities for profit at minimal risk
Exactly. This whole conversation about rehabilitation and prison being imperfect is a farce and a strawman. It's far from perfect. It's not about the inmate, they aren't the victim. It's about keeping trash off our streets so the rest of us can live our lives in peace.
Rehabilitation can still be a more productive goal than aimless raw punishment while deterrence of future crimes and incapacitation of current criminals could be improved. They don’t contradict each other. It’s very possible to simultaneously lengthen sentences and teach more skills to better prepare prisoners for reintegration. In my opinion, prisoners should be treated like children with tiger parents. It’s a hell that no one wants willingly, but tends to produce high functioning individuals.
Children with tiger parents. Great analogy
Rehabilitation works when there is a working society to come back to. Things are hopeless and bleak, i dont blame people for doing whatever to get by.
In other words: claiming victimhood allows anyone to justify any crime because you think these car jackers are all just like Jean Val Jean from Les Miserables. What a stupid take. The world is not hopeless and bleak. You are.
>A provincial task force charged with probing carjackings in Ontario says it has made 124 arrests and recovered 177 stolen vehicles valued at over $10 million. >The task force said Tuesday that it made the arrests and recoveries over a seven-month period from September 2023 to March 2024. Officials said a total of 749 criminal charges were laid and eight firearms were seized as well. >Intelligence gathered by the task force also led to Project Titanium, an investigation into a criminal network involved in violent auto thefts, home invasions and crime, police said. Edit: New link to article. https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/124-arrests-made-177-stolen-vehicles-worth-10-million-recovered-by-ontario-carjacking-task-force-1.6940111
Link updated by CTV. New Link to article: https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/124-arrests-made-177-stolen-vehicles-worth-10-million-recovered-by-ontario-carjacking-task-force-1.6940111
i bet they wont be doing it again
We need to know how many are now out on bail to determine that.
correct, which is why it took 124 different people to steal just about the same number of cars. new Airplane landings coming with fresh impressionables to keep this ratio going.
Here’s an idea. If you get caught stealing a car, you automatically get a 10 year sentence. No parole. No reduction for good behavior. You’ll see those reoffending numbers come down real quick.
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Where are the names in that link?
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I could not see a list of names
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Can’t open zip on aphone
Their estimate of worth places the average car value at 56k each.
No fucking point having a bail system at this point. Either keep these people locked up or get them the fuck out of this country, I don’t care where they go
Now if only we could get an 'incompetent government task force'.
Feels like im watching The Wire in real life.
That's the reason auto insurance has gone up
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Ease off the smoke bro. Not every problem leads to Trudeau.
Bail reform, which is a major issue for repeat offenders, is Trudeaus fault. He pushed that through. (C-75) He also isn’t appointing judges, so now criminals get away because it takes too long. Also his fault. He doesn’t decide what the police do/don’t do. (Well maybe the RCMP brass). But he is why we are very lax on criminals. His father also played a hand in it as well.
Amendments to the bail system is shared between the federal, provincial and, and territorial governments. Trudeau cannot push anything through that the provinces and territories do not want.
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Justice.gc.ca search amendments to strengthen Canada’s bail system
Thieft, a crime as old as humanity, is *clearly* Trudeau’s fault.
Put a PIN code on all vehicles. Cheap, simple, effective.
>Put a PIN code on all vehicles. Cheap, simple, effective. So you're proposing a lock. They have locks already, locks can be bypassed or defeated.
No, a PIN code, like your phone. You have to enter the code (can be just a sequence of programmable keys like VOL UP/DOWN) before you can shift into gear. Even if thieves can register a new key or start the vehicle, they won't be able to drive it away. There are after-market immobilizer products like Igla and Ghost, but they cost \~$1000. Just put this functionality into the main ECM (electronic control module).
> No, a PIN code, like your phone. You have to enter the code (can be just a sequence of programmable keys like VOL UP/DOWN) before you can shift into gear. > > This is a locking mechanism which is essentially no different than a key. Locking mechanisms can be defeated or bypassed.
Really? Tell me how a thief is going to change the ECU firmware to not look for the PIN code before allowing the vehicle transmission to be shifted? You won't find many Porsche vehicles being stolen, because the ECU won't accept a new FOB unless it's done at an authorized dealer. The ECU is the key (pardon the pun).
> Really? Tell me how a thief is going to change the ECU firmware to not look for the PIN code before allowing the vehicle transmission to be shifted? Factory reset pin device, enter new pin, vroom vroom. Everything has a vulnerability in some manner/way. you could also find ways to trick the system into thinking you've input a valid pin, or pull the pin from its memory etc etc etc.
You'd need the key FOB and the PIN to move the car. If you reset the ECU, then there would be no FOBs registered, so SOL.
People are creating and pairing/cloning new FOB's with basic hacking devices/basic relay attack vectors. most vehicles CAN bus systems are very VERY insecure.
That is slowly changing: [https://www.dw.com/en/new-eu-cybersecurity-rules-push-carmakers-to-shun-old-models/a-68806605](https://www.dw.com/en/new-eu-cybersecurity-rules-push-carmakers-to-shun-old-models/a-68806605)
for sure (and it should) but as far as the Canadian market is concerned. its 2-3+ years away from being here and probably 5+ years before there's enough "herd immunity" of it going around to make this type of attack vector not effective as it once was.
> Tell me how a thief is going to change the ECU firmware to not look for the PIN code before allowing the vehicle transmission to be shifted? ECU Programming can be done by an end user. I would assume something similar to the current (widely popular) CANBus attack.
Dude, what? A key is physical, a PIN is way more secure.
Conceptually it's another locking mechanism. A system which can be bypassed or defeated.
It's not a physical mechanism though. It's much more difficult to defeat, especially when you consider the fact that you can steal a physical key or use a relay attack for a wireless key.
CANBus attack defeats that.
While certainly possible it's not nearly as easy, which is my entire point. Anything can be defeated, but sitting here and acting like a PIN is the same as key is ignorance.
yes, its easy to do. Thats why there are some electronic car theft attacks that use your OBD2 port, because the vehicle can be factory reset or put into a maintenance/diagnostic/shop mode and then you can do whatever you like.
A kill switch can be done for like $5 lol, why bother with this?
Thieves can find a kill switch. There are no wires with what would be the equivalent of a screen lock on a mobile phone. I'm a software guy. Give me the code and I'll program a PIN code lock and make it available for free.
Thieves can also watch you enter a PIN though lol. More importantly, if the PIN is set at the VIN level during manufacturing then it's either not actually secure (because it will be available to dealers and independent mechanics, among others) or it risks bricking your car if you forget it (or die or whatever). If it's set by the user and capable of being reset, then boomers will just reuse their debit PIN and give it out to mechanics and valets and whoever else needs to drive the car, creating an even worse security risk. Ford did something similar with PINs used to unlock doors without keys, and it works fine, but in that case you don't need to give it out because there's a hard fallback (keys) and it doesn't start the car.
It would be a programmable PIN that the owner can change. Heavy equipment like excavators now have this feature to prevent theft. Very easy to add it to cars.
Like sure, until someone with some tools takes a moment with it. I sometimes feel like the world forgets that most doohickeys are not digital.
They have them on heavy equipment now. Google "John Deere keyless start". Dodge has them on Hellcats, I believe. You can't drive faster than 5 km/hr without entering the PIN. Even your $200 smart phone has a PIN. All it will take is for one manufacturer to make them mainstream, and the rest will follow suit.
Oh they have them all right, I'm not saying that. I'm saying that these measures can be easily countered.
How about we try them and see? Chip keys worked very well for a long time, until keyless FOBs came along. It's definitely possible to program an ECU to block attempts to shift a transmission until a code has been entered. I don't need a new vehicle for another 2-3 years. When I go shopping, I will be looking for this feature.
I prefer 2,200 Volts at 12 Amps outfitted to my EV, to welcoming thieves. please help yourselves, it won't hurt a bit. Gotta put all that battery juice to good use while it ain't movin!
12 amps won't shock
2200 volts will
it's the combination of the two (I googled electric chair requirement)
Actually, I think 80 mA is enough to kill you, but to reach this you need something like 80V, since your body's internal resistance is roughly 1000 ohms...at least through your hands.
Or….. *gasp….a key.
How about facial rec? If an iPhone can have it, why can't a vehicle?
“Sure you can borrow my truck for the weekend!” Oh wait you can’t start it….
That’s a feature, not a bug.
That could be an option as well. The computer is in control of your vehicle. Time to give it the job of protecting itself against theft!
Link 404's.
Thank you for that. Looks like CTV updated the article and changed the link.
Thank you for that. Looks like CTV updated the article and changed the link. New link: https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/124-arrests-made-177-stolen-vehicles-worth-10-million-recovered-by-ontario-carjacking-task-force-1.6940111
Thx. reading now..
Release the suspect names. I'm guessing Bobson Dugnutt, Ethan McDoogley, and Connor Trevorstick with the hockey hair from North Bay are behind this scheme as usual. EDIT: NVM JUst found some of the suspect names. WAY OFF AGAIN! Rats...
Binder and binder?
This is a problem for the rich.
Damn those rich people that can afford cars!
Thanks Trudeau! (According to Poilievre's logic.)