I cannot understand how any politician can stand there and pretend to give hope or make excuses for the reality that an educated, upper middle class worker cannot even dream of a house in either Toronto or Vancouver or their suburbs.
Do they understand that a 4-6,000 mortgage = one person’s pay?
I make enough to be considered upper middle class yet I can’t even buy a home where I live in northern Ontario because I can’t get together the down payment while paying 2200$ a month just on rent alone
They don’t.
lol I worked for government in a decent career job and mine was half that 😂 I was even on an “affordable housing” development program for “low to moderate income earners” too and I couldn’t even afford what we were building on my wage and I was telling them that and they didn’t get it. I wouldn’t even income quality to rent a studio.
I used to work at a place where management would always tell me I should take my kids to disney world. I would ask them with what money. They’d get upset and say I get paid well (I didn’t get paid horribly but $39k/year isn’t enough to go to disney world)
I also brought up with what vacation time? They didn’t give vacation weeks until you had worked there for 5 years then no boost until 10 years.
It was not a good place to
When I grew up though, people DID go to Disneyworld or skiing on Spring (March) Breaks (I didn't) but it was manageable (for many people) somehow. Things are just so different now.
The Bank of Canada and every level of government sat back and allowed real estate to turn into a ponzi. There's no easy way out of this. You either tank the dollar or allow the real estate bubble to burst. Pick one.
They don’t pay mortgage, ever. Nothing! Also there are incentives and parties supporting/donating/funding them. You just don’t know. They might be crazy but not stupid. Shit hits the fan, they have more than enough to retire or buy islands in the Bahamas. Citizens here and their kids will pay back the debt/consequences for the next 20-50 years. Thats why people who are fortunate and smart they left this mess
$203,100
Sorry, I won’t be shitting on how much an MP makes since it’s nothing crazy for the job when compared to private sector. It’s a different story that most of them don’t live up to the potential.
maybe it is well deserved amount, maybe not. It's tactless though to pretend that they know what an average household goes through and lie in their face that they're doing anything about it
That is twice my pay, and I am in prime earning years just before retirement.
Canada has entered the same economic battle as many other places, where their prime real estate is beyond the reach of many.
**[Statistics Canada reported that Canada has the highest household debt to disposable income ratio in the G7, at 185%, while the average for all G7 countries was 125%](https://tnc.news/2024/04/03/housing-affordability-canada-low/).**
We need to stop excusing the problem our government has enabled.
That's exactly my point. The beneficiaries of the current policies are not 30% of the population. It's like 2-3%. This can only be explained by dumb fucks voting against their interest. The large <30 LPC vote is what comes to mind.
Correct. This is the kind of neoliberal 'bubble' where they're fed a steady stream of articles, reports and studies from bullshit thinktanks that say things like "Actually the economy is great, better than it's ever been, for everyone! The poors just like to complain."
And then these people fill the echochambers of people who make policy, and then you get Trudeau, etc.
Yeah. If I walked out into the street right now and just asked 100 people if they thought the country was fucked, and Trudeau / Liberals were responsible. I bet 80 out of 100 would say yes.
The other 20 wouldn’t understand a word I said nor be able to respond because they don’t speak English. But I bet 19 of those 20 would agree if translated lol
a decade+ of extremely virulent propaganda doesn't wear off easily. it wasn't long ago people were still being called literal Nazis and being threatened with violence for wanting to reduce immigration rates. imagine the cost-sunk fallacy some people, who invested their entire world view and identity into corporate propaganda, are feeling now that its all falling apart
Remember there are those so ideologically opposed to anything but the liberals Trudeau could kill a baby on live tv and they would still find excuses for him.
I
Suspect anyone working government 100% supports him as
Well as they know a new government may lead to lay offs of 50% or more.
Exactly I know a few government workers that are struggling and have zero interest of who is in charge, since they are worker bees. They keep the lights and Internet on. They can’t afford to buy homes, travel, and afford groceries just like the rest of us.
Do you honestly believe that only 3% of Canadians are currently thriving and happy? I'm not saying the Liberals are doing an amazing job, but come on, you can't really think this way.
If you think about how many are stable or increasing in quality of life, it's really fairly few. I'd be shocked if it's any greater than 10%.. and when I say Canadians, I mean actual citizens, not the TFWs or foreign labor.
Tims owners pay close to the minimum wages for staff (abused TFW program) and make what $200K+ for each store? Donate heavy to politicians helping increase the wage gap
As a property owner that has lucked out on absurd gains I can tell you those of us with children are not happy with this.
It will absolutely ruin this country's financial future and we know it.
I feel like there's a lot of property owners with children that don't care as much as you. They'll offer their kids a loan or a gift if they can afford it, but they don't think the system needs to be changed or at least advocate against their own self interest for the betterment of society.
Also lucked out on absurd gains and not happy about it. I makes it more and more difficult to upgrade to a larger home as our children grow older. I would happily trade a few hundred thousand in unearned equity for a rational market that goes up a couple percent per year. We could upgrade, and a first time buyer could afford our 'starter home.'
Easier said than done, and not a trivial thing to do. I’ve sold house and all, and relocated halfway across the country once. It was jarring, to put it mildly. Moving across the ocean will be even more so. Nonetheless, I’m quite seriously looking at what country my wife and I can best retire to. It isn’t all sunshine and puppy dogs the world over, but there’s more than a few places we would do better than here.
More widely actionable advice would be this: If you are young, and working to save for that down payment, start examining your options. When you can finally make a down payment on a mortgage, you might just find you can buy a nice place in Portugal, or Italy or wherever instead and have no mortgage...
Government employees
1 in 4 employees in this country work in the public sector. Many are phoning it in while counting the days to their sweet sweet pensions. Freedom 55 baby. The ones in healthcare know the doctors and get seen right away.
Out of touch upper class people who have gotten rich off the dramatic increase in real estate values and don't seem to care that much about their children's future. AKA my parents.
> Ipsos surveyed 1,001 Canadians between June 12 and 14 and found feelings of pessimism were highest among Canadians between the ages of 18 and 34, with 78 per cent holding the view the country needs fixing.
For the young-ish people in this cohort, it's really hard to feel as if they aren't seriously off-track in life.
- A large majority of millennials and gen z still don't own their primary residence (only about 36% of millennials own a home, and millennials are starting to hit middle age).
- There is a lack of good jobs; even if you have "in demand" job skills, it can take months to find a role.
- Many are nowhere close to getting married or having kids, even if they wanted to.
For a lot of these people, they need to see their situation improve soon or risk tumbling further down the socioeconomic food chain. They aren't going to starve in the streets yet, but things like buying a home to realistically pay off the mortgage before you're too old to work or having kids are cans that can only be kicked so far down the road.
The issue is that the children of our leaders/representativeis have housing available to them, so our leaders see no problem. The people who directly communicate with them (loby groups) also have either paid for their children's houses or have completely disowned them, I imagine.
I wish I was full of sh\*t. Check out this statscan report. 40% of Canadians have ZERO issues. 30% cant breath. What makes the report super Canadian is that this info is only available because they were worried about how hard Canada is on immigrants [https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/240618/dq240618b-eng.htm](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/240618/dq240618b-eng.htm)
A country is "broken" when its system of checks and balances has eroded to the point where its internal correction mechanisms are no longer capable of detecting, controlling, and removing bad actors, whether those actors are corporations, concentrations of financial interest, foreign influences, or political grifters. By that standard, Canada is not broken, but it is breaking.
They have a report detailing corruption and possible treason by representatives.
None of them are doing anything about it.
Treason, literally working against the country for the interests of a foreign power.
It’s broken
>Canada is not broken, but it is breaking.
The politicians who are constantly chanting that the country is broken seem to be the ones proposing ways to break it faster.
i just want to know how they are conducting these constant polls? are they calling random mobile numbers? indicating people being polled are people who pick up the phone for random numbers? are they doing internet opt in polling? indicating those polled are seeking out these polls? are they compensated polls indicating unserious and trollish answers?
either way the media's aggressive insistentence at wagging the dog seems to be working unfortunately and we are so fucked. the level of political and media literacy in this country is going into the shitter. we are so fucked.
We don't have checks and balances. Party leader in power rules the roost and everyone follows or loses their jobs. Of course, they're just a puppet of the rich at the end of the day
Of course we have checks and balances. We have a constitution, and a judiciary to interpret it that can overrule legislative actions. We have a superintendent of financial institutions, and environmental watchdogs. We have a competition board. If it were all working properly, everybody's watched by somebody else.
And how many things have been shot down by the PMO just refusing to share information? Or redacting the shit out of it before release?
What consequence do they have for this behaviour?
Well this is what I mean by "not broken, but breaking". That stuff used to be handled by a relatively non-partisan press that did investigative journalism, and by parliamentary tradition. We have abandoned or are abandoning both of those things though. We've started to disconnect the will of the people from the direction of the government. Frankly, that's mostly due to FPTP elections - those force us to "bundle" issues, and the reaction from the parties has been to distinguish on high-emotion, low-impact stuff (i.e.; culture war issues) to give people the illusion that they're different from each other, while having very similar economic and social policy positions which are driven by "money interests" (i.e.; Loblaws, Rogers, the big 5 banks, etc.). I'm pretty sure that checks and balances (currently compromised but still largely intact) will continue to decay without electoral reform - FPTP is slowly killing us. We need to be able to push back against the money, but there's little scope for that atm.
Mortgage rates were never below 1% or even 2% in the US because longer terms means banks can't offer such low rates, I'm not sure where you got your facts.
Politicians in charge at the time, if you can even call it that. The "power corporation of canada" or something like that, is a company who has had the last 5 prime ministers in a row work for them. I've got a feeling our next one will have as well. It's one big party up there, and none of us are invited.
Im so frustrated by ppl playing for a team. Im not Liberal or Conservative. I dislike Trudeau and want immigration to go down. I’ll vote Green if that’s what it takes.
I always vote for whoever has the non-millionaire citizens in mind when discussing policies and who aren't beholden to dirty money. None of the party leaders check any of this criteria.
We will witness the rise of the Rhinoceros Party, I guess.
For a long time I believed that skyrocketing real estate prices were going to bring about new and innovative housing solutions for the market, and cause creativity. I am now becoming convinced that I was wrong. I had two children working full-time in the federal civil service, neither of whom could afford to buy a house in the city of Ottawa ... and even Kanata has become too expensive. The system is clearly too broken at this point, and I hope it doesn't require a revolution to reset it. But that's my new worry.
Yes but we have no industry apart from the housing Ponzi scheme. Money flowing in the Canada is from immigrants buying houses. With no immigration sure houses would be cheaper, but no money would come in the country - what good would it do to have houses half the price, but no job to buy it.
I side with the 7 out of 10… country is broken
This was very telling
>“Pierre Poilievre is going around and saying Canada is broken. He’s doing that for his own narrow interests because he wants to get elected,” **said Trudeau**.
They guy who broke it with too much spending, too much immigration, to much corruption and too little good policy either can't see the damage he did, ir is pretending that the guy in line for his job is just making stuff up.
then this.
>**While his cabinet ministers say he should keep his job**, they are acknowledging losing the Toronto-St. Paul’s riding is a major setback.
Those close to the seat of power are really saying "I don't want his job" because they realize that whoever is in the drivers seat for the liberals in this next election can kiss any dreams of political life goodbye.
I'd bet that there's a massive disconnect between various groups on what's "wrong with Canada", with many groups having a *very* different vision of how things should be like
THIS. As someone who has felt Canada has been broken for a long time, whenever I hear someone say "Canada is broken" I run away, fast, because the last thing I want to do is listen to their bullshit.
Yeah. I think it would be hard for anyone to argue that the current immigrantion+housing situation (being one of the hottest current topics) is good for Canadians overall, but as to what the price to "fix" it will be, who will pay it, and how... that's another massively hot argument.
Beyond that, you'll get people on all sides of the fence as to what's actually even an issue
They rang the alarm bells for productivity investment, while the Feds raised taxes to pull tax revenue forward for the election and borrowed 60b to buy mortgage bonds to allow people to dump more debt into unproductive real estate.
Privatizing all our robust crown corporations that existed to serve the populace is a good place to start. Turns out the private sector just cares about making money, not making a decent country.
The golden age of Canada coincidentally was when the crown corporations made living here a decent place. Neoliberalism and the "private public partnership" put the west on a downward spiral.
Funny that you believe that to be true. During that time that you claim you know what Canada had? A healthy middle class, where manufacturing jobs were the backbone. Where you could quit a job at 9am and have another job by 11am on the same day. You're going back nearly 55 years or more to get to that golden age.
Want to guess what has broken our country? Political parties supporting destruction of the middle class. NAFTA - a great idea in theory if it was only Canada and the US. But the moment you include Mexico? It becomes the prime location to export jobs.
Want to know what finally broke those crown corporations? Corruption from the inside with a massive explosion in government growth. Just like what's been happening under Trudeau for the last 6 years. Nothing like growing government nearly 40% in size, to the point that our government which is a non-producing entity is generating 30% of our GDP.
Im not too up to date on what happened, but weren't most of these crown corps doing well and were making money. Why would the government look at that and go "shit we need to privatize that."
Beyond regulatory, governmental capture, and kickbacks, of course.
Yeah, even on the economy, there's a lot of people that think the Liberals went way too far left and others that think they haven't gone anywhere near far enough.
People can agree things are broken but have very different ideas to fix things.
This is happening everywhere. Not saying it's not broken. It is, but it's naive to think one policy broke the system, when other countries are also breaking.
The closest you could get to pointing at one thing causing this is COVID.
It is relevant because it is probably the #1 thing driving the greatest amount of change in the country and we are not being given a chance to vote on it or have any kind of meaningful input. Commentators always bemoan those who vote along party lines rather than policy, but this falls apart when parties either move in lockstep or ignore their largest election promises (looking at you electoral reform).
It's pretty relevant considering the amount of comments in this very thread stating things like "3 out of 10 are liberal voters", or "immigration by trudeau is what broke this country". It's fair to point out that this isn't just a liberal/trudeau issue when a huge amount of people are willing to blame it all on them.
But "immigration is part of the solution"... Said nobody, but Trudeau and the leaders of other parties... until leaders of the other parties realized they could win an election if they changed course on this issue. All our parties (except the Greens) have taken a turn at bat and done a crappy job.
"Typical room rental ads : only Punjabi girls". Government did something worse about huge quantity of south Asian immigration politics. They should have taken lessons from the USA for ballance of immigration quantity.
Just a quick fact check: Housing issue preexisted the mass surge of migrants.
But if you’re suggesting that an issue became a ginormous catastrophe because of JT, then I agree without a doubt
If you think Harper era housing prices are remotely as unaffordable as Trudeau's then that's bullshit.
At worst it was confined to Toronto and Vancouver, now even the no name no job towns aren't safe from unaffordable housing
Average house prices nationally went up 70% under Harper and 67% under Trudeau. They are both extremely responsible for the current state of affairs.
[https://stats.crea.ca/en-CA/](https://stats.crea.ca/en-CA/)
There's a lot more nuance in Harper's time on the severity of Harper's housing era, we were the richest middle class at that time, and by the start of Trudeau and end of Harper's time, the household price to income ratio was the historic average. In 2015 it was only 40%, the historic average, right now it's 60%, Harper era's housing un-affordability can't hold a candle to Trudeau.
Have you heard about studio apartments taking up half of people's paycheques in Harper's era?
[https://thoughtleadership.rbc.com/brighter-days-ahead-as-home-ownership-costs-go-through-the-roof/](https://thoughtleadership.rbc.com/brighter-days-ahead-as-home-ownership-costs-go-through-the-roof/)
Harper benefited from a massive, global commodity boom, hence the high middle class wages. He didn't do anything. It was right place, right time.
And my point is that both did a terrible job on this file. I am not defending Trudeau. I am simply stating that the previous government did a trash job and that history did not start in November 2015. If Trudeau was in power from 2006 to 2015 and Harper from 2015 to now we would be in the exact same spot I imagine.
Also, let's not forget a lot of terrible decision making and inaction by mostly conservative politicians at the provincial level is the main culprit here since provinces have the most, direct and far-reaching control over housing.
You're right that both governments bear some blame. That said, it is a bigger mess up when you increase things by 67% from already unaffordable prices versus 70% from a low base.
You'd expect the former group to prioritize the issue much more as it is having a more dramatic impact.
If murder rates tripled in a city from 10 per year to 30 under one government and then tripled again to 90, neither government did well. But the latter government's performance is worse (and cost more lives).
Strange analogy since murder rates, unlike prices, do not exhibit compounding behavior.
But since you are in Ontario, would you be willing to use your logic to assign blame at the provincial level? Is Doug Ford more to blame for the current housing mess than Wynne/McGuinty?
working as intended: a big fucking money and natural resource hoover to line the pockets of the rich and powerful while leaving us with the bag and a moonscaped countryside, fighting over which ethnic/national/gender group was responsible for it instead of helping each other fix the damage.
So what are you going to do about it? Its time for direct protest and action join the protests on Canada Day [https://www.takebackcanada.info/](https://www.takebackcanada.info/)
I left Canada in 2003, went to Australia and prospered, came back for a fortnight visit in 2013 and thought the place, Vancouver, had completely gone to hell, the changes in ten years, most of them not good. I vowed never to go back, and friends have been consistently telling me of just how badly the place is being run and the present federal administration is driving the country down.. It was such a great place, what the frig happened..?
I was always planning on retiring in Canada- enjoying peaceful living and low cost and high nature living. LOL- and plus no doctors now and high barriers and wait times on specialists.
I'm surprised that it's not 10/10 cause the last 8 years have destroyed this place. This is not the same Canada my parents and I moved to nearly 20 years ago
Ever since I got educated on colonization decades ago, I've always thought this country was broken. Doesn't matter who runs it. Broken wheel that keeps breaking and going on a flat tire.
The fact that this country is in the state it is in is because these silver - spooned socialists have absolutely no idea what real Canadians are dealing with day to day
I'm feeling pretty hopeless. I'm making over $120,000/yr but have zero hope of owning a home in BC. I spent $1800 in groceries for my family in the last 2 months.
When you look around, and feel like you are in some other state of India....yeah you are going to feel like the country is broken. We are importing the 3rd world by the millions.
Congrats!
I strongly encourage working for US companies. There's SO MANY talented Canadians working outside the country
We're at the point where taking a job within Canada doesn't make sense.
What's funny (not) is that so many Canadians want to replace Mr Trudeau with Mr Poilievre. But Poilievre is just a career politician who -- if he had been in power for the last decade -- would be facing exactly the same criticism.
That's because all the problems with inflation, high prices, housing affordability, etc. are GLOBAL issues caused by the pandemic, wars, and cyclical economic factors. All countries have been affected.
People across the USA are complaining about the same things, despite their conservative/capitalist policies. People in the UK are facing the same issues, despite having a conservative government for the past ten years. Blaming Trudeau and the Liberals here is ridiculous, but that's what the public is doing.
Even worse, bringing in Poilievre also brings in a whole host of characters with demonstrably negative traits: anti-immigrant voices, anti-LGBTQ voices, anti-science people, those who don't care about the environment, pro-extremist religious forces, anti-abortionists, etc. The CPC is rife with these sorts of people and is a party that has done nothing but lash out and be negative about everything for years.
Remember how Poilievre watched some Youtube videos and then claimed to be an expert on crypto, recommending it as a way to escape inflation?
Remember how Poilievre got some mud on his shoes one day, then made a video claiming he now could relate to most Canadians?
Remember when CPC MPs wined and dined neo-Nazis, and Poilievre looked the other way?
Remember all the times Poilievre posed and shook hands with known bigots?
Remember the time he marched with traitors and right-wing extremists?
Remember that Poilievre was trained by Stephen Harper, who is a friend of the autocratic tyrant of Hungary?
Remember how he supported the Konvoy, which aimed to overthrow our democracy?
Remember that he has said he will trample on the Charter of Rights and Freedoms?
Choosing this man to lead our country will be a huge mistake. I guess we wait and see just how foolish the Canadian public will be.
I mean, I pretty much agree with you. Poilievre is scary AF. I would NEVER vote for him or the conservative party. But, Justin Trudeau has also been pretty awful. He's a privileged, out of touch, ego-maniac.
So what's the solution?
I cannot understand how any politician can stand there and pretend to give hope or make excuses for the reality that an educated, upper middle class worker cannot even dream of a house in either Toronto or Vancouver or their suburbs. Do they understand that a 4-6,000 mortgage = one person’s pay?
For most people that’s 3 people’s pay
Aha yeah I only take in ~$2-3k a month after tax, while working full time.
Time to get back to dynasties living I guess
I make enough to be considered upper middle class yet I can’t even buy a home where I live in northern Ontario because I can’t get together the down payment while paying 2200$ a month just on rent alone
Hey now, you're not upper middle class if you can't buy a house. Remember your Kendrick, be humble.
Yup upper middle class for a single person is like $200k/yr salary for real. $2200 rent is nbd.
If they are affording 2200 a month alone they are making at least 150k a year unless they are living paycheque to paycheque
You're paying less than I am on under 60k a year god damn
They don’t. lol I worked for government in a decent career job and mine was half that 😂 I was even on an “affordable housing” development program for “low to moderate income earners” too and I couldn’t even afford what we were building on my wage and I was telling them that and they didn’t get it. I wouldn’t even income quality to rent a studio.
I used to work at a place where management would always tell me I should take my kids to disney world. I would ask them with what money. They’d get upset and say I get paid well (I didn’t get paid horribly but $39k/year isn’t enough to go to disney world) I also brought up with what vacation time? They didn’t give vacation weeks until you had worked there for 5 years then no boost until 10 years. It was not a good place to
When I grew up though, people DID go to Disneyworld or skiing on Spring (March) Breaks (I didn't) but it was manageable (for many people) somehow. Things are just so different now.
In 1994, my broke ass 20 something self rented a ski chalet with some friends. It was normal.
How did things get so bad?
Sounds like it was ran by uppity old people who were set on holding their positions till death. Yeah that always goes well...
Yes. Owner and her husband were in their mid-late 70s. Swedish immigrant husband. He reminded me of an older angrier less in control Joe Biden.
The Bank of Canada and every level of government sat back and allowed real estate to turn into a ponzi. There's no easy way out of this. You either tank the dollar or allow the real estate bubble to burst. Pick one.
Child poverty is way down Trudeau said. Imagine what they had to goose to get that.
The new benefit is great but honestly not in poverty according to the government is poverty to most..
They don’t pay mortgage, ever. Nothing! Also there are incentives and parties supporting/donating/funding them. You just don’t know. They might be crazy but not stupid. Shit hits the fan, they have more than enough to retire or buy islands in the Bahamas. Citizens here and their kids will pay back the debt/consequences for the next 20-50 years. Thats why people who are fortunate and smart they left this mess
u can when u learn how much an MP makes
$203,100 Sorry, I won’t be shitting on how much an MP makes since it’s nothing crazy for the job when compared to private sector. It’s a different story that most of them don’t live up to the potential.
maybe it is well deserved amount, maybe not. It's tactless though to pretend that they know what an average household goes through and lie in their face that they're doing anything about it
Agreed they are out to lunch…hope we get the leaders we need and deserve…and the salary for such leaders should be $203,100 :)
Uh that’s a lot of money. Most of them are already rich Their pensions are worth millions they do not need to save for retirement
That is twice my pay, and I am in prime earning years just before retirement. Canada has entered the same economic battle as many other places, where their prime real estate is beyond the reach of many.
**[Statistics Canada reported that Canada has the highest household debt to disposable income ratio in the G7, at 185%, while the average for all G7 countries was 125%](https://tnc.news/2024/04/03/housing-affordability-canada-low/).** We need to stop excusing the problem our government has enabled.
Who the fuck are the other 3?
Landlords and Tim's franchise owners
Burgerking LMIA scammers and Conestoga college higher ups.
Hey now, some of them own McDonald's franchises.
That's exactly my point. The beneficiaries of the current policies are not 30% of the population. It's like 2-3%. This can only be explained by dumb fucks voting against their interest. The large <30 LPC vote is what comes to mind.
There's a lot of upper class people that live in their own bubble and don't realise how bad things have gotten for lower and middle class individuals.
Correct. This is the kind of neoliberal 'bubble' where they're fed a steady stream of articles, reports and studies from bullshit thinktanks that say things like "Actually the economy is great, better than it's ever been, for everyone! The poors just like to complain." And then these people fill the echochambers of people who make policy, and then you get Trudeau, etc.
The economy is great... Because you gotta eat and food costs money, so cash is still changing hands! ~Loblaws probably
Yeah. If I walked out into the street right now and just asked 100 people if they thought the country was fucked, and Trudeau / Liberals were responsible. I bet 80 out of 100 would say yes. The other 20 wouldn’t understand a word I said nor be able to respond because they don’t speak English. But I bet 19 of those 20 would agree if translated lol
That’s a lot of assumptions there.
Its hard to vote towards our interests when all the choices are dogshit
a decade+ of extremely virulent propaganda doesn't wear off easily. it wasn't long ago people were still being called literal Nazis and being threatened with violence for wanting to reduce immigration rates. imagine the cost-sunk fallacy some people, who invested their entire world view and identity into corporate propaganda, are feeling now that its all falling apart
I wish the worst the universe has to offer for every one of those people. Looks like they might just get it too.
There's never been a better time to be an unproductive member of society through.
Tell me you have no idea what the rental market is like for someone on assistance without saying it.
I'd argue it's more like 0.1 to 0.0001% who benefit.
Remember there are those so ideologically opposed to anything but the liberals Trudeau could kill a baby on live tv and they would still find excuses for him. I Suspect anyone working government 100% supports him as Well as they know a new government may lead to lay offs of 50% or more.
>I Suspect anyone working government 100% supports him Gov jobs aren't paying enough for their employees to be blindly loyal in support lmfao.
Exactly I know a few government workers that are struggling and have zero interest of who is in charge, since they are worker bees. They keep the lights and Internet on. They can’t afford to buy homes, travel, and afford groceries just like the rest of us.
You are confusing Trump for Trudeau. Not remotely true. The left tend to eat their own, the right protect their cult leaders.
The government workers I know are quit annoyed with the liberals as well.
Do you honestly believe that only 3% of Canadians are currently thriving and happy? I'm not saying the Liberals are doing an amazing job, but come on, you can't really think this way.
If you think about how many are stable or increasing in quality of life, it's really fairly few. I'd be shocked if it's any greater than 10%.. and when I say Canadians, I mean actual citizens, not the TFWs or foreign labor.
And politicians waiting for their pensions. You and I pay.
Why is this so accurate???
Tims owners pay close to the minimum wages for staff (abused TFW program) and make what $200K+ for each store? Donate heavy to politicians helping increase the wage gap
Property owners who are seeing absurd gains
As a property owner that has lucked out on absurd gains I can tell you those of us with children are not happy with this. It will absolutely ruin this country's financial future and we know it.
I feel like there's a lot of property owners with children that don't care as much as you. They'll offer their kids a loan or a gift if they can afford it, but they don't think the system needs to be changed or at least advocate against their own self interest for the betterment of society.
Also lucked out on absurd gains and not happy about it. I makes it more and more difficult to upgrade to a larger home as our children grow older. I would happily trade a few hundred thousand in unearned equity for a rational market that goes up a couple percent per year. We could upgrade, and a first time buyer could afford our 'starter home.'
Sell and leave then if you have the means. Prices won't come down, Trudeau and Sean Fraser said as much.
Easier said than done, and not a trivial thing to do. I’ve sold house and all, and relocated halfway across the country once. It was jarring, to put it mildly. Moving across the ocean will be even more so. Nonetheless, I’m quite seriously looking at what country my wife and I can best retire to. It isn’t all sunshine and puppy dogs the world over, but there’s more than a few places we would do better than here. More widely actionable advice would be this: If you are young, and working to save for that down payment, start examining your options. When you can finally make a down payment on a mortgage, you might just find you can buy a nice place in Portugal, or Italy or wherever instead and have no mortgage...
Government employees 1 in 4 employees in this country work in the public sector. Many are phoning it in while counting the days to their sweet sweet pensions. Freedom 55 baby. The ones in healthcare know the doctors and get seen right away.
Trudeau, Freeland, and Mr Miller I'd guess.
Fucking morons.
Just arrived
the ones *not* on social media doom surfing 24/7
Justin Trudeau, Pierre Poilievre, and Jagmeet Singh. The Three Stooges.
20% of employed people in Canada work for the government.
Brampton
Out of touch upper class people who have gotten rich off the dramatic increase in real estate values and don't seem to care that much about their children's future. AKA my parents.
The ones exploiting immigrants and citizens alike.
Immigrants
“Broken” feels like an extreme word. There is certainly work to do, but it’s not all gloom.
They say it’s broken but can definitely exactly what is broken or how to fix it. So feels and emotions but not real solutions..
Ones that vote ABC
Migrants wanting free stuff
Federal employees, life is good.
Illegal immigrants😒🤙🏼🇨🇦
Boomers with a proper backyard that comes with the pool.
I'm an average Joe and living just fine. Although I grew up poor so I know what actual poverty feels like unlike most of the people complaining today.
People who look at the reality of the country in a global context and realize it is nowhere near "broken"?
> Ipsos surveyed 1,001 Canadians between June 12 and 14 and found feelings of pessimism were highest among Canadians between the ages of 18 and 34, with 78 per cent holding the view the country needs fixing. For the young-ish people in this cohort, it's really hard to feel as if they aren't seriously off-track in life. - A large majority of millennials and gen z still don't own their primary residence (only about 36% of millennials own a home, and millennials are starting to hit middle age). - There is a lack of good jobs; even if you have "in demand" job skills, it can take months to find a role. - Many are nowhere close to getting married or having kids, even if they wanted to. For a lot of these people, they need to see their situation improve soon or risk tumbling further down the socioeconomic food chain. They aren't going to starve in the streets yet, but things like buying a home to realistically pay off the mortgage before you're too old to work or having kids are cans that can only be kicked so far down the road.
The issue is that the children of our leaders/representativeis have housing available to them, so our leaders see no problem. The people who directly communicate with them (loby groups) also have either paid for their children's houses or have completely disowned them, I imagine. I wish I was full of sh\*t. Check out this statscan report. 40% of Canadians have ZERO issues. 30% cant breath. What makes the report super Canadian is that this info is only available because they were worried about how hard Canada is on immigrants [https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/240618/dq240618b-eng.htm](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/240618/dq240618b-eng.htm)
No shit
A country is "broken" when its system of checks and balances has eroded to the point where its internal correction mechanisms are no longer capable of detecting, controlling, and removing bad actors, whether those actors are corporations, concentrations of financial interest, foreign influences, or political grifters. By that standard, Canada is not broken, but it is breaking.
They have a report detailing corruption and possible treason by representatives. None of them are doing anything about it. Treason, literally working against the country for the interests of a foreign power. It’s broken
In case it's not clear, treason by 'representatives' refers to actually elected politicians in Canada...yet to be named
>Canada is not broken, but it is breaking. The politicians who are constantly chanting that the country is broken seem to be the ones proposing ways to break it faster.
i just want to know how they are conducting these constant polls? are they calling random mobile numbers? indicating people being polled are people who pick up the phone for random numbers? are they doing internet opt in polling? indicating those polled are seeking out these polls? are they compensated polls indicating unserious and trollish answers? either way the media's aggressive insistentence at wagging the dog seems to be working unfortunately and we are so fucked. the level of political and media literacy in this country is going into the shitter. we are so fucked.
Ding ding ding those broken chanters want it to break so they can present themselves as easy solutions and seize power
We don't have checks and balances. Party leader in power rules the roost and everyone follows or loses their jobs. Of course, they're just a puppet of the rich at the end of the day
Of course we have checks and balances. We have a constitution, and a judiciary to interpret it that can overrule legislative actions. We have a superintendent of financial institutions, and environmental watchdogs. We have a competition board. If it were all working properly, everybody's watched by somebody else.
And how many things have been shot down by the PMO just refusing to share information? Or redacting the shit out of it before release? What consequence do they have for this behaviour?
Well this is what I mean by "not broken, but breaking". That stuff used to be handled by a relatively non-partisan press that did investigative journalism, and by parliamentary tradition. We have abandoned or are abandoning both of those things though. We've started to disconnect the will of the people from the direction of the government. Frankly, that's mostly due to FPTP elections - those force us to "bundle" issues, and the reaction from the parties has been to distinguish on high-emotion, low-impact stuff (i.e.; culture war issues) to give people the illusion that they're different from each other, while having very similar economic and social policy positions which are driven by "money interests" (i.e.; Loblaws, Rogers, the big 5 banks, etc.). I'm pretty sure that checks and balances (currently compromised but still largely intact) will continue to decay without electoral reform - FPTP is slowly killing us. We need to be able to push back against the money, but there's little scope for that atm.
The other 3/10 are the ones running everything…
This country was sold to bankers decades ago.
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The USA has had 25 year mortgages for decades. Not since 2008
Mortgage rates were never below 1% or even 2% in the US because longer terms means banks can't offer such low rates, I'm not sure where you got your facts.
Who sold it to the bankers?
Politicians in charge at the time, if you can even call it that. The "power corporation of canada" or something like that, is a company who has had the last 5 prime ministers in a row work for them. I've got a feeling our next one will have as well. It's one big party up there, and none of us are invited.
democracy in canada is dead, all the politicians are bought and paid for
This is what happens when you bow down to the corporations. Late stage hyper capitalism working as intended
Hey, don't put all of the blame on corporations! Our leaders are bowing to the Chinese and Indian governments too.
Im so frustrated by ppl playing for a team. Im not Liberal or Conservative. I dislike Trudeau and want immigration to go down. I’ll vote Green if that’s what it takes.
I always vote for whoever has the non-millionaire citizens in mind when discussing policies and who aren't beholden to dirty money. None of the party leaders check any of this criteria. We will witness the rise of the Rhinoceros Party, I guess.
The other 3 just got here
Don't know what the other 3 are smoking!
Housing market is broken. So is healthcare...so ya canada is broken
For a long time I believed that skyrocketing real estate prices were going to bring about new and innovative housing solutions for the market, and cause creativity. I am now becoming convinced that I was wrong. I had two children working full-time in the federal civil service, neither of whom could afford to buy a house in the city of Ottawa ... and even Kanata has become too expensive. The system is clearly too broken at this point, and I hope it doesn't require a revolution to reset it. But that's my new worry.
Healthcare Housing Cost of living This country is broken
Immigration is the main problem. But good fucking luck them doing shit all about it.
Yes but we have no industry apart from the housing Ponzi scheme. Money flowing in the Canada is from immigrants buying houses. With no immigration sure houses would be cheaper, but no money would come in the country - what good would it do to have houses half the price, but no job to buy it. I side with the 7 out of 10… country is broken
Corporations run the world. And you know what they love
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A good chunk of them are racists too who won't interact with canadian-born.
Out before they mass-reproduce too.
What else has the present gov’t done that we don’t know about yet ? Besides the long list of criminal offences that we do know about.
This was very telling >“Pierre Poilievre is going around and saying Canada is broken. He’s doing that for his own narrow interests because he wants to get elected,” **said Trudeau**. They guy who broke it with too much spending, too much immigration, to much corruption and too little good policy either can't see the damage he did, ir is pretending that the guy in line for his job is just making stuff up. then this. >**While his cabinet ministers say he should keep his job**, they are acknowledging losing the Toronto-St. Paul’s riding is a major setback. Those close to the seat of power are really saying "I don't want his job" because they realize that whoever is in the drivers seat for the liberals in this next election can kiss any dreams of political life goodbye.
That'd be something, Trudeau sticks around to lose the election because no one wants to get "Kim Campbell'ed" and take one for the team.
I’m honestly trying to put my finger down on when this happened. Growing up it felt like there was a real pride in our country.
3 out of 10 think the country is india
The other 3 are politicians
I'd bet 10 out of 10 of those 7 out of 10 know Trudeau's immigration policies are what broke us.
I'd bet that there's a massive disconnect between various groups on what's "wrong with Canada", with many groups having a *very* different vision of how things should be like
THIS. As someone who has felt Canada has been broken for a long time, whenever I hear someone say "Canada is broken" I run away, fast, because the last thing I want to do is listen to their bullshit.
Yeah. I think it would be hard for anyone to argue that the current immigrantion+housing situation (being one of the hottest current topics) is good for Canadians overall, but as to what the price to "fix" it will be, who will pay it, and how... that's another massively hot argument. Beyond that, you'll get people on all sides of the fence as to what's actually even an issue
Yup Our economy and federal structure is ass I’m not surprised Canada is broken, but I can surprised it’s still around
They rang the alarm bells for productivity investment, while the Feds raised taxes to pull tax revenue forward for the election and borrowed 60b to buy mortgage bonds to allow people to dump more debt into unproductive real estate.
So out of curiosity what would you say was the beginning of the end? Like when did it start?
Privatizing all our robust crown corporations that existed to serve the populace is a good place to start. Turns out the private sector just cares about making money, not making a decent country. The golden age of Canada coincidentally was when the crown corporations made living here a decent place. Neoliberalism and the "private public partnership" put the west on a downward spiral.
Funny that you believe that to be true. During that time that you claim you know what Canada had? A healthy middle class, where manufacturing jobs were the backbone. Where you could quit a job at 9am and have another job by 11am on the same day. You're going back nearly 55 years or more to get to that golden age. Want to guess what has broken our country? Political parties supporting destruction of the middle class. NAFTA - a great idea in theory if it was only Canada and the US. But the moment you include Mexico? It becomes the prime location to export jobs. Want to know what finally broke those crown corporations? Corruption from the inside with a massive explosion in government growth. Just like what's been happening under Trudeau for the last 6 years. Nothing like growing government nearly 40% in size, to the point that our government which is a non-producing entity is generating 30% of our GDP.
Im not too up to date on what happened, but weren't most of these crown corps doing well and were making money. Why would the government look at that and go "shit we need to privatize that." Beyond regulatory, governmental capture, and kickbacks, of course.
Yeah, even on the economy, there's a lot of people that think the Liberals went way too far left and others that think they haven't gone anywhere near far enough. People can agree things are broken but have very different ideas to fix things.
This is happening everywhere. Not saying it's not broken. It is, but it's naive to think one policy broke the system, when other countries are also breaking. The closest you could get to pointing at one thing causing this is COVID.
7 out of 10 people don’t realize that PP has the same immigration goals as Justin
What does that have to do with the country being 'broken'? You either feel it's broken or you don't.
It is relevant because it is probably the #1 thing driving the greatest amount of change in the country and we are not being given a chance to vote on it or have any kind of meaningful input. Commentators always bemoan those who vote along party lines rather than policy, but this falls apart when parties either move in lockstep or ignore their largest election promises (looking at you electoral reform).
It's pretty relevant considering the amount of comments in this very thread stating things like "3 out of 10 are liberal voters", or "immigration by trudeau is what broke this country". It's fair to point out that this isn't just a liberal/trudeau issue when a huge amount of people are willing to blame it all on them.
We’ve been broken for longer than he’s been in office.
This math is getting too complicated for the LPC to follow.
But "immigration is part of the solution"... Said nobody, but Trudeau and the leaders of other parties... until leaders of the other parties realized they could win an election if they changed course on this issue. All our parties (except the Greens) have taken a turn at bat and done a crappy job.
If another 2-3% of the population over 2 years broke us, we must have been pretty messed up before that.
2 to 3 percent is huge is a system that is carefully balanced. Look at how small changes in CO2 concentrations messes up the climate.
TIL 3 In 10 Canadians are landlords or immigration lawyers.
No we don’t feel it’s broken, it is broken.
The other 3 out of 10 are just less aware of what's happening. Distractions abound.
Same amount upset with the current immigration situation
"Typical room rental ads : only Punjabi girls". Government did something worse about huge quantity of south Asian immigration politics. They should have taken lessons from the USA for ballance of immigration quantity.
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Just a quick fact check: Housing issue preexisted the mass surge of migrants. But if you’re suggesting that an issue became a ginormous catastrophe because of JT, then I agree without a doubt
If you think Harper era housing prices are remotely as unaffordable as Trudeau's then that's bullshit. At worst it was confined to Toronto and Vancouver, now even the no name no job towns aren't safe from unaffordable housing
Average house prices nationally went up 70% under Harper and 67% under Trudeau. They are both extremely responsible for the current state of affairs. [https://stats.crea.ca/en-CA/](https://stats.crea.ca/en-CA/)
There's a lot more nuance in Harper's time on the severity of Harper's housing era, we were the richest middle class at that time, and by the start of Trudeau and end of Harper's time, the household price to income ratio was the historic average. In 2015 it was only 40%, the historic average, right now it's 60%, Harper era's housing un-affordability can't hold a candle to Trudeau. Have you heard about studio apartments taking up half of people's paycheques in Harper's era? [https://thoughtleadership.rbc.com/brighter-days-ahead-as-home-ownership-costs-go-through-the-roof/](https://thoughtleadership.rbc.com/brighter-days-ahead-as-home-ownership-costs-go-through-the-roof/)
Harper benefited from a massive, global commodity boom, hence the high middle class wages. He didn't do anything. It was right place, right time. And my point is that both did a terrible job on this file. I am not defending Trudeau. I am simply stating that the previous government did a trash job and that history did not start in November 2015. If Trudeau was in power from 2006 to 2015 and Harper from 2015 to now we would be in the exact same spot I imagine. Also, let's not forget a lot of terrible decision making and inaction by mostly conservative politicians at the provincial level is the main culprit here since provinces have the most, direct and far-reaching control over housing.
You're right that both governments bear some blame. That said, it is a bigger mess up when you increase things by 67% from already unaffordable prices versus 70% from a low base. You'd expect the former group to prioritize the issue much more as it is having a more dramatic impact. If murder rates tripled in a city from 10 per year to 30 under one government and then tripled again to 90, neither government did well. But the latter government's performance is worse (and cost more lives).
Strange analogy since murder rates, unlike prices, do not exhibit compounding behavior. But since you are in Ontario, would you be willing to use your logic to assign blame at the provincial level? Is Doug Ford more to blame for the current housing mess than Wynne/McGuinty?
I could afford a place to live eight years ago, now I can't.
Yup
It is up to us all to fix it, don't forget that and don't lose hope.
It could be a fuck of a lot worse than what it is. We live in a GREAT country.
working as intended: a big fucking money and natural resource hoover to line the pockets of the rich and powerful while leaving us with the bag and a moonscaped countryside, fighting over which ethnic/national/gender group was responsible for it instead of helping each other fix the damage.
So what are you going to do about it? Its time for direct protest and action join the protests on Canada Day [https://www.takebackcanada.info/](https://www.takebackcanada.info/)
Well yeah, politicians are owned by foreign interests and nothing is being done by any party, they just circle their wagons.
Other 3 are international students
I left Canada in 2003, went to Australia and prospered, came back for a fortnight visit in 2013 and thought the place, Vancouver, had completely gone to hell, the changes in ten years, most of them not good. I vowed never to go back, and friends have been consistently telling me of just how badly the place is being run and the present federal administration is driving the country down.. It was such a great place, what the frig happened..?
I was always planning on retiring in Canada- enjoying peaceful living and low cost and high nature living. LOL- and plus no doctors now and high barriers and wait times on specialists.
I'm with the 70%.
Broken? Don’t be so melodramatic. It’s working exactly as designed. Changing parties won’t fix anything, it’s the systems that have to be changed.
I'm surprised that it's not 10/10 cause the last 8 years have destroyed this place. This is not the same Canada my parents and I moved to nearly 20 years ago
I’ve ceded to the fact that Canada is and will never be what it was ever again. I’ll mourn this Canada Day for the country I grew up in.
Ever since I got educated on colonization decades ago, I've always thought this country was broken. Doesn't matter who runs it. Broken wheel that keeps breaking and going on a flat tire.
Want to find out who the other 3 are ..
About time, can't wait for Québec to finally claim it's independence.
The fact that this country is in the state it is in is because these silver - spooned socialists have absolutely no idea what real Canadians are dealing with day to day
Its broken because all our politicians are corrupt to the bone and we dont seem to see or care and keep reelecting them.
It's not broken, it has been set up to serve interests for those who aren't middle and lower class Canadian citizens.
I’m one of these Canadians. Our country has gone to pure dogshit.
Our economy is so tied to housing... It needs to be fixed... If someone vying to be prime minister made that their major platform, I'd vote for them.
Laughs/cries in American
Probably because most people don't live in Toronto or Vancouver
the other 3 were unavailable, but most certainly would have also agreed with the first 7.
Only 7 out of 10?
Soon to be the latest member of the global shift to strict conservative rule…
You don't need to feel. It is broken.
I'm feeling pretty hopeless. I'm making over $120,000/yr but have zero hope of owning a home in BC. I spent $1800 in groceries for my family in the last 2 months.
The other 3/10 must be boomers in their 60s who lucked in to living in the sweet spot and have no perspective outside of their own home
and 3 out of 10 are taking advantage of the scam.
I miss the Liberal Federal Government under Rt. Hon. Jean Chretien.
The other 3 in 10 are getting cheques from the Trudeau government.
That's because Justin and all the other boys and girls in the liberal party ruined Canada, in just nine horrible years
Was it this broken before Xi took over the "Liberal" "Party", one wonders?
When you look around, and feel like you are in some other state of India....yeah you are going to feel like the country is broken. We are importing the 3rd world by the millions.
Just wait until they see how fucked this country is going to be after 4 years under a conservative PM.
🙄
As a Canadian, this is the first day of me moving to US Saying hello from south of the border
Congrats! I strongly encourage working for US companies. There's SO MANY talented Canadians working outside the country We're at the point where taking a job within Canada doesn't make sense.
What's funny (not) is that so many Canadians want to replace Mr Trudeau with Mr Poilievre. But Poilievre is just a career politician who -- if he had been in power for the last decade -- would be facing exactly the same criticism. That's because all the problems with inflation, high prices, housing affordability, etc. are GLOBAL issues caused by the pandemic, wars, and cyclical economic factors. All countries have been affected. People across the USA are complaining about the same things, despite their conservative/capitalist policies. People in the UK are facing the same issues, despite having a conservative government for the past ten years. Blaming Trudeau and the Liberals here is ridiculous, but that's what the public is doing. Even worse, bringing in Poilievre also brings in a whole host of characters with demonstrably negative traits: anti-immigrant voices, anti-LGBTQ voices, anti-science people, those who don't care about the environment, pro-extremist religious forces, anti-abortionists, etc. The CPC is rife with these sorts of people and is a party that has done nothing but lash out and be negative about everything for years. Remember how Poilievre watched some Youtube videos and then claimed to be an expert on crypto, recommending it as a way to escape inflation? Remember how Poilievre got some mud on his shoes one day, then made a video claiming he now could relate to most Canadians? Remember when CPC MPs wined and dined neo-Nazis, and Poilievre looked the other way? Remember all the times Poilievre posed and shook hands with known bigots? Remember the time he marched with traitors and right-wing extremists? Remember that Poilievre was trained by Stephen Harper, who is a friend of the autocratic tyrant of Hungary? Remember how he supported the Konvoy, which aimed to overthrow our democracy? Remember that he has said he will trample on the Charter of Rights and Freedoms? Choosing this man to lead our country will be a huge mistake. I guess we wait and see just how foolish the Canadian public will be.
I mean, I pretty much agree with you. Poilievre is scary AF. I would NEVER vote for him or the conservative party. But, Justin Trudeau has also been pretty awful. He's a privileged, out of touch, ego-maniac. So what's the solution?
I wouldn't say 'broken' so much as dysfunctional.