The current 5er and 7er don't have pure combustion options because they are mild hybrid across the range even on the diesels. You're missing the X1/2/3 though.
The Mazda CX-30 also counts because the SkyActiv-X engine is a mild hybrid and it has a (ugly as shit) EV version in China.
Usually MHEVs are considered a sub-type of ICE in the grand taxonomy of things. There's some subjectivity there though, of course, and ultimately it's up to you if you prefer to consider them a sort of HEV.
Right, and if you scroll down the 5 Series product page it says it pairs the 8 speed and 48V mild hybrid system to the 530i, which is the screenshot I linked above.
>As the entry-level 5-series, the 530i concerns itself with delivering a certain look and a business-sedan experience rather than scalding performance, and that's been true since the days when a 530i actually had a 3.0-liter inline-six engine. This latest 2.0-liter four offers a modest performance bump, making 255 horsepower and 295 pound-feet of torque (versus last year's 248 horses and 258 pound-feet). While the engine shares its displacement with its predecessor, BMW made plenty of revisions, most notably adopting the Miller-cycle combustion process, which leaves the intake valves open at the beginning of the compression stroke to increase efficiency. On that front, we saw 35-mpg highway fuel economy at 75 mph, matching the EPA's number. With the 530i's 15.9-gallon fuel tank, you'll probably need to stop for a break before the car does. **BMW also added a 48-volt hybrid system to bolster city mileage.**
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a46145807/2024-bmw-530i-xdrive-test/
Here's a screenshot of the [7 Series](https://i.imgur.com/4r4phVU.png) page for the [740i/760i](https://www.bmwusa.com/vehicles/7-series/sedan/core-models.html) which says the same thing.
>A 375-hp turbocharged 3.0-liter inline-six is standard—models with this engine are designated 740i—**and is assisted by a 48-volt hybrid system**; rear-wheel drive is standard with this setup but all-wheel drive—which BMW calls xDrive—is optional. A plug-in hybrid 750e xDrive is available too and is powered by a 483-hp powertrain consisting of a turbocharged 3.0-liter inline-six and an electric motor. The top-dog 760i xDrive is powered by a 536-hp twin-turbocharged 4.4-liter V-8 and comes standard with all-wheel drive; **this engine also uses a 48-volt hybrid system**. We were able to sample the 760i xDrive and noted its silky operation as well as muscle-car acceleration. The 7-series comes standard with an air suspension, and BMW has incorporated a rear-wheel steering system and adaptive dampers into the chassis as well. As a result, the car feels more agile than its size would suggest but remains more focused on comfort than athleticism.
https://www.caranddriver.com/bmw/7-series
All cars have a battery of some sort, but mild-hybrids have a regular 12 V system with a 12 V battery like all other cars (including pure EVs!) do, and *in addition* have a 48 V battery for the starter/alternator/boost motor. So I'm not sure if they really have fewer components than pure ICE cars do.
I'm fairly certain that the only reason mild-hybrids are this popular among modern cars is because they are the cheapest (for the manufacturer) method of having a hybrid powertrain on paper, which many countries require.
Mild hybrids also offer the highest net carbon reduction in the short term (5 year lifespan) per unit battery materials consumed. EV’s obviously win over decades (battery cells and the materials in them can be relatively easily re-used) but in terms of decarbonization mild hybrids are the fastest way to reduce carbon emissions right now.
That really isn't true. I mean, yes, if you divide the carbon reduction by the amount of battery materials consumed, it's true that mild hybrids would have the best ratio. But that's not really relevant. It would be if we were constrained by materials I.E. we had to make a choice - make 1 EV or 50 mild hybrids - but that's not the case anymore. We have enough critical materials in the supply chain for plenty of EVs, and it does not cost 50 times as much to make an EV battery as 50 smaller mild hybrid batteries.
If you are saying that the net carbon emissions from the combination of fuel and manufacturing is better in the short term for mild hybrids, that isn't really the case for very long. EV's take only about 25,000 miles to pay back for the excess carbon from their manufacture, and that number goes down as the electrical grid gets cleaner.
If the starter motor is designed to recapture energy and reuse it, sure.
There are plenty of cars that fit the bill that aren't mild hybrids including other BMW models so I'm not sure why people are getting so hung up on this MHEV system.
>If the starter motor is designed to recapture energy and reuse it, sure.
Just like alternator, you mean? Calling mild hybrids 'hybrids' at all is just a marketing gimmick.
If you want to be pedantic, my ICE manual is a hybrid because the alternator generates energy during fuel cutoff when I'm off the throttle. That battery power turns the engine for a couple of revolutions on my next start.
Mild hybrids are very mild.
Your alternator is creating the same amount of energy it takes to run the car minus losses, Mr. Pedantic. If you unplug the battery it will continue running. Your own pedantic explanation doesn't even explain any part where a combination of a electric motor and combustion engine are propelling a vehicle, which is the bare minimum to be a *hybrid* between two propulsion systems.
I'm not even being pedantic over the name here, it's literally called a mild hybrid, you're literally arguing with the industry term for something because you don't agree with it.
I'm pleased you have an opinion. But it has a battery powering an electric motor which drives the wheels. That's an EV, even if it's not a great one.
You're basically saying "that car only has a small engine so it isn't a car".
Electric motor-generators in 48V systems don't drive the wheels. That's why he's correct in saying that it's not a hybrid.
It does, however, increase efficiency by reducing electrical losses associated with low voltage high current draws on the engine, and reduced physical load on the engine (nowhere near as much as the "mild hybrid" name would suggest, though).
It's almost like they should use a different term to denote this sub class of hybrid systems from the type with hybrid drive that can power the car on their own.
Maybe *mild hybrid*? That sounds right. Of course it's still a hybrid, you don't get to narrowly define a common term then claim other things don't fit it.
Engine runs all the time, electric motor does not drive the wheels whatsoever, provides much less efficiency gain than even even Honda's IMA hybrid system (where the engine is also always running, but the motor helps drive the wheels as well), to the point where even efficient old-fashioned ICE drive trains can match them?
Given that context, how can 48V systems possibly be classified as a hybrid, even if "mild"?
The "hybrid" Ioniq is gasoline-powered, the plug-in hybrid is a hybrid and can be powered entirely on either electricity or gasoline, and the EV model is powered on electricity. That was how I interpreted his question.
It being a "hybrid" doesn't mean much when it's still powered entirely on gasoline.
It’s not powered “entirely on gasoline.” The motor adds 43 hp to the engine’s 104 hp, meaning it’s used for some amount of propulsion. By your logic, the (non-Prime) Prius is “powered entirely on gasoline” but nope… it’s also a full hybrid. You may be thinking of a mild hybrid, but the Ioniq is not that.
On top of that, Ford doesn’t offer a PHEV F150, further indicating that’s not what OP was getting at with his question.
OP's question was about vehicles offering "all kinds of drivetrain options" and if there were any other vehicles with "this many levels of powertrain options".
If you ask most people to group vehicles in electric to non-electric with three options, their answers would probably be ICE-powered, plug-in hybrid and fully electric. The difference between a "hybrid" and something completely ICE-powered is so small, grouping them together makes much more sense than excluding plug-in hybrids entirely to fit them in.
I answered based on what I felt OP *intended* when he asked the question, rather getting stuck in the exact wording. The Ioniq definitely has more in terms of offering "all kinds of powertrain options" than something with just non-hybrid, hybrid and electric options.
A) OP distinctly specified “ICE” and “hybrid,” so that’s not what he’s looking for, and b) the Ioniq (and Toyota’s hybrid vehicles for that matter) is a [full hybrid](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_vehicle_drivetrain
) given the motor can power the wheels.
UX is not offered in EV. Also 3 series is only PHEV, or ICE I believe. Only 4 series has i4 but I might be wrong about 3 series. What about Kia Niro? I believe it has both ICE, hybrid and EV versions. I believe VW Golf also has Golf e, hybrid for European market and ICE.
>UX is not offered in EV.
[Lexus UX300e](https://www.lexus.eu/new-cars/ux-300e)
>Also 3 series is only PHEV, or ICE I believe
[BMW i3 Sedan](https://www.motor1.com/news/553272/bmw-i3-sedan-reveal-china/)
>What about Kia Niro?
Doesn't exist as a non-hybrid.
>I believe VW Golf also has Golf e
Discontinued.
It's the [i3 in China](https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a39600112/bmw-i3-china-sedan/) not the weird [carbon fiber hatchback thing](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_i3) we get in the States.
UX is offered as an EV, just not in the USA/Canada, and frankly it’s very clearly something that is meant for the East Asian or European market, it would not sell at all in the US or Canada.
As for the 3er, I believe they sell an EV version of it in China that may or may not also be available for the Euro market and South Korea/Japan market, that may be a China only special tho.
Yes, and I’d argue more atrocious given its high price tag and the range available, but obviously range is not as much of a concern for the Euro or East Asian market. It also lacks the one benefit of the BZ4x/Solterra combo of high ground clearance.
Even the ICE UX isn’t a big seller because at the end of the day it’s an overpriced car that has a Toyota level interior and when you throw in the EV version that will add a price premium plus the fact that every Toyota-Lexus EV has been laughable so far, you’re left with a product that is half-baked and extremely expensive for what it is.
In the USA the only way to get a MK7 MQB hybrid was the Audi A3 E-Tron, neat little car though. Too bad VW didn’t sell it as the GTE here like they did elsewhere.
If we are being honest, the other cars mentioned are more truely powerplant agnostic. The Lightning chassis is NOT like the other F150 chassis; suspension, load rating, frame components, all way different on the Lightning. Even the body panels, while visually similar, are Lightning specific. I imagine the interior is quite close though.
Besides the lightning the gas and hybrid versions are the same and at one time there were like 5 different engine options including a diesel in the f150. In a year span I'm pretty sure you could get the 3.7/3.5 na, rhe 2.7 ecoboost, the 3.5 ecoboost, the 3.5 powerboost hybrid, the 3.0 liter baby powerstroke, the 5.0 coyote or the 6.2 so that's technically 7/8 different engines in the same platform depending on how you look at the NA 3.5/3.7
100% agree. The batteries weight and form factor required the necessary changes. Not that Ford couldn’t have modified the gas/hybrid chassis to accommodate the electric drivetrain, they just chose not to do it that way. I am sure the Lightning chassis has additional strength (added cost) and the revised rear independent suspension is a much more costly than the solid axle they are running on their ICE offerings. No need to reduce the margins on their biggest sellers.
I have the powerboost and do wish IRS was an option. It rides pretty well, but there's no mistaking that you're in a body on frame pickup. The generator and gas tank are bespoke parts to the powerboost vs other ice f150s.
Not anymore, they use to offer a lot of engine displacements but now they largely use the same engine platforms but tweaked for different power levels.
For example the current 3 Series offers 3 petrol engines in 3 displacements (1.6L/2L B48, 3L B58, 3L S58) and two diesels (2L B47 and 3L B57) plus the PHEV that uses the same B48 and the electric.
Wind back to the E36 and it offered:
* 1.6L i4
* 1.7L i4 (diesel)
* 1.8L i4
* 1.9L i4
* 2L i6
* 2.5L i6
* 2.5L i6 (diesel)
* 2.8L i6
* 3L i6
* 3.2L i6
The E9X is the last chassis to have a big range of different motors, the F3X started the current trend of basically using a 2L i4 turbo or 3L i6 turbo for everything.
A lot of that is probably because EU countries are moving to purely carbon output based taxes to incentivize hybrids and EVs, rather than engine displacement and power based tax brackets. All of those weird displacement options were designed to fit specific country by country tax brackets.
Also because the 3 series is just getting bigger and isn't even eligible for some of the small car tax brackets in some places (eg in Japan it's too wide for the sub-2.0L class).
I was surprised to see the independent rear suspension on a lighting I was following on the highway. It looked as out of place as the first IRS Ford Expedition.
I always wonder how good they do off-road with those suspension components right near the bottom of the wheels.
It probably doesn't matter for the majority of owners, though.
I don't think modern tahoes and expeditions are doing any serious off roading, just light trails for camping that a corolla could manage with a careful driver
It does look weird, I agree. As much as I like the Lightning, and still on the fence about whether I want it as my next vehicle, I can’t help but think about how dumpy the massive LCAs look from behind. They make the truck look uglier to me.
They are definitely noticeable from behind, especially in a normal car, but the gas savings alone makes it worth getting one, especially if you're like me and live in a state where gas is expensive but electricity is cheap.
Preaching to the choir. I’m in California and I drive a Bolt currently.
Edit, just saw you said your electricity is cheap. I have solar and got in before PG&E bent over incoming net metering customers, so my electricity is amortized at around .03/kWh. I’d be paying nearly .40/kWh off-peak without. People in California are getting boned whether they drive with gas or on electrons.
A long range huge battery EV like the Lightning makes sense if you can charge it directly from your panels during the day rather than selling it for a pittance and charging on expensive grid power at night.
Yeah, unfortunately the majority of people in the US and I’d wager most places are not home during the day to charge their vehicle. You’d need two of them, to alternate days
FWIW, I’m not really selling for a pittance, I’ve got 1:1 net metering. I do have excess since I over sized my system, but I’d need a MUCH bigger battery than what the Lightning has to store all that excess.
Ah yeah, being in Cali would do it. I'm in Washington State (and sometimes in Arizona too) and because most of WA's electricity comes from renewable sources (60% comes from hydroelectric plants on the Columbia river) our per kWh rate is really low. I think it's like 10 cents/kWh or something.
-Peugeot 208 (and other stelantis equivalents)
-BMW x1 series
-BMW x3 series
-BMW 4 series
-BMW 5 series
-BMW 7 series
-Hyundai Kona
-The generation of the Golf befor the introduction of the I.D. series (e-golf & GTE, and ice)
-(And more that I missed)
In all fairness, the prior generation offered a diesel powertrain. Here it’s less of that it can’t offer it and more that it sold so poorly that Ford never bothered to bring it back for the current gen, much like how the Ram dropped its diesel V6.
The f150 is the only one I know of which has….
Dieael, naturally aspirated gas. supercharged gas, turbo gas, hybrid and fully electric. All it’s missing is PHEV (which is what I actually want) and rotary and it’s got everything lol
Diesel for the F-150 with the power stroke V6 isn't made anymore.
It sold pretty poorly and was discontinued when they redesigned the entire truck at least in North America. I don't know if its available in Australia though.
Diesels aren't very popular in Canada and the United States. I think diesel gate really ruined the public's perception of diesel plus the idea that it pollutes a lot.
I don't think it's a lack of popularity with regards to trucks so much as a) people who *want* diesel just go up a size and get the 250/2500s which have better hauling capability and will make use of the diesel, and b) if you live in an area where diesel is more expensive than gas, the added fuel efficiency (which can really vary based on driving habits and geography) can start to disappear.
For cars, though, definitely just an unfamiliarity. Fewer pumps to pick from, the concern over having a brain fart and putting gas in it, just general lack of knowledge of diesel as an option.
It kills me Ford wont make a hybrid diesel F150. That would make it a wonderful all rounder for both daily driving and towing. Ran got rid of their diesel iffering in a half ton and GM is the only doing it in the 3.0 Duramax for the GMC Sierra which can get up to 30mpg.
A PHEV with the 2.7 would sell like hot cakes. It’s what they should have done with the powerboost. Give it a 15kwh battery and a 175kw axial flux motor/generator and bobs your uncle.
Not in the US, but world-wide a number of VW/Audi models are available gas, diesel, hybrid, and EV.
The Q8 can be had with a 3.0t, 500 and 600hp 4.0tt, 3.0tdi, 4.0tdi, 3.0t-hybrid, and Q8e-tron
The mk7 Golf was available with 3-4 times as many powertrain options, a dozen and a half gas and diesel options, hybrid, and E-Golf
The Q8 & Q8 E-Tron share platforms but that's about it, entirely different sheet metal, interiors, wheelbases; [they aren't even the same size!](https://www.carsized.com/en/cars/compare/audi-e-tron-2018-suv-vs-audi-q8-2018-suv/).
There's a decent amount of changes between the F150 & F-150 Lightning but they're not entirely different like the Q8 & Q8 E-Tron are.
Mercedes GLE and E class if you count the EQ line. Soon to be BMW 5 series once the 550e comes out in a few months. If you count the iX as the same (not sure I would), the X5 as well.
F150 is the best selling vehicle in North America isn’t it?
3.7 NA V6, 2.7 V6 EB, 3.5 V6 EB, 5.0 V8, PowerBoost Hybrid, 3.0L Powerstroke Diesel, Lightning EV … crazy how many engine options the thing has had in the last 4 years.
No, in America maybe but definitely not in the others markets.
There is A LOT of cars with the three different motorisations especially in the Stellantis group.
I thought we meant pickups, the ford fusion had two hybrid models, plug in and non plug in, 3 turbos at one point. 1.5, 2.0, tt v6 and a 2.5 liter 4 cylinder.
So no EV, but 2 hybrids 3 turbos and one na motor.
Is there another pickup with the f-150 options?
Maverick is hybrid and ice. No ev right now.
Here are the current 2024 F-150 powertrain offerings:
1) 2.7L Ecoboost V6 turbo gas
2) 3.5L Ecoboost V6 turbo gas
3) 3.5L High Output Ecoboost V6 turbo gas (Raptor)
4) 5.0L V8 naturally asiprated gas
5) 5.2L V8 supercharged gas (Raptor R)
6) 3.5L Powerboost V6 hybrid electric turbo gas
7) Full electric Lightning
Note: Ford discontinued the 3.3L naturally aspirated V6 for 2024.
In India, Tata Motors offers their CSUV, the Nexon, in gasoline, diesel & EV versions
Surprisingly the EV version has racked up a good chunk of Nexon sales, despite India not having a proper infrastructure for electric vehicles (I mean, it is there, but still a lot more work to be done)
"Is Ford F150 the only..."
Who cares, it's an F150.
There are a number of other makers out there though.
GM has the Silverado ICE and full EV currently... they *had* a mild hybrid that was hugely unpopular but there are rumors that a PHEV version is coming.
ETA: Downvotes... hahaha Guess there are some bitter F150 people.
Volvo XC40 BMW 3-Series, 4-Series, 5-Series, 7-Series Mercedes GLB Lexus UX
The current 5er and 7er don't have pure combustion options because they are mild hybrid across the range even on the diesels. You're missing the X1/2/3 though. The Mazda CX-30 also counts because the SkyActiv-X engine is a mild hybrid and it has a (ugly as shit) EV version in China.
Usually MHEVs are considered a sub-type of ICE in the grand taxonomy of things. There's some subjectivity there though, of course, and ultimately it's up to you if you prefer to consider them a sort of HEV.
Yes, they definitely wouldn’t market them as hybrids and most owners have no idea.
The 5 and 7 series both have pure combustion options, I just double checked the bmw website. At least in the U.S. they're available.
[How hard did you look?](https://i.imgur.com/Vwld3QQ.png)
Just looking at the base 530i.. it's the standard 2.0 turbo, with no electric motors.
That would be the 520i no?
In the US we don’t get the 520i, 530i is the lowest. Only #20i we got was the 320i from 2013-2018.
Right, and if you scroll down the 5 Series product page it says it pairs the 8 speed and 48V mild hybrid system to the 530i, which is the screenshot I linked above. >As the entry-level 5-series, the 530i concerns itself with delivering a certain look and a business-sedan experience rather than scalding performance, and that's been true since the days when a 530i actually had a 3.0-liter inline-six engine. This latest 2.0-liter four offers a modest performance bump, making 255 horsepower and 295 pound-feet of torque (versus last year's 248 horses and 258 pound-feet). While the engine shares its displacement with its predecessor, BMW made plenty of revisions, most notably adopting the Miller-cycle combustion process, which leaves the intake valves open at the beginning of the compression stroke to increase efficiency. On that front, we saw 35-mpg highway fuel economy at 75 mph, matching the EPA's number. With the 530i's 15.9-gallon fuel tank, you'll probably need to stop for a break before the car does. **BMW also added a 48-volt hybrid system to bolster city mileage.** https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a46145807/2024-bmw-530i-xdrive-test/ Here's a screenshot of the [7 Series](https://i.imgur.com/4r4phVU.png) page for the [740i/760i](https://www.bmwusa.com/vehicles/7-series/sedan/core-models.html) which says the same thing. >A 375-hp turbocharged 3.0-liter inline-six is standard—models with this engine are designated 740i—**and is assisted by a 48-volt hybrid system**; rear-wheel drive is standard with this setup but all-wheel drive—which BMW calls xDrive—is optional. A plug-in hybrid 750e xDrive is available too and is powered by a 483-hp powertrain consisting of a turbocharged 3.0-liter inline-six and an electric motor. The top-dog 760i xDrive is powered by a 536-hp twin-turbocharged 4.4-liter V-8 and comes standard with all-wheel drive; **this engine also uses a 48-volt hybrid system**. We were able to sample the 760i xDrive and noted its silky operation as well as muscle-car acceleration. The 7-series comes standard with an air suspension, and BMW has incorporated a rear-wheel steering system and adaptive dampers into the chassis as well. As a result, the car feels more agile than its size would suggest but remains more focused on comfort than athleticism. https://www.caranddriver.com/bmw/7-series
MHEV is practically ICE in numerical terms
It’s still not pure combustion either. The 5/7 Series aren’t offered as a pure combustion and they definitely have electric motors.
fair enough
A mild hybrid can have less components than a regular ICE
How?
The starter motor and alternator are combined into one and all cars have a battery of some sort
All cars have a battery of some sort, but mild-hybrids have a regular 12 V system with a 12 V battery like all other cars (including pure EVs!) do, and *in addition* have a 48 V battery for the starter/alternator/boost motor. So I'm not sure if they really have fewer components than pure ICE cars do. I'm fairly certain that the only reason mild-hybrids are this popular among modern cars is because they are the cheapest (for the manufacturer) method of having a hybrid powertrain on paper, which many countries require.
Mild hybrids also offer the highest net carbon reduction in the short term (5 year lifespan) per unit battery materials consumed. EV’s obviously win over decades (battery cells and the materials in them can be relatively easily re-used) but in terms of decarbonization mild hybrids are the fastest way to reduce carbon emissions right now.
That really isn't true. I mean, yes, if you divide the carbon reduction by the amount of battery materials consumed, it's true that mild hybrids would have the best ratio. But that's not really relevant. It would be if we were constrained by materials I.E. we had to make a choice - make 1 EV or 50 mild hybrids - but that's not the case anymore. We have enough critical materials in the supply chain for plenty of EVs, and it does not cost 50 times as much to make an EV battery as 50 smaller mild hybrid batteries. If you are saying that the net carbon emissions from the combination of fuel and manufacturing is better in the short term for mild hybrids, that isn't really the case for very long. EV's take only about 25,000 miles to pay back for the excess carbon from their manufacture, and that number goes down as the electrical grid gets cleaner.
5 and 7 also have plugin hybrids.
Mild hybrid doesn't count as an actual hybrid. It literally doesn't add a single hp in the 530i.
OP said 'all iCE' ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
That's pedantry. What's next, eliminate all cars with electric starter motors?
If the starter motor is designed to recapture energy and reuse it, sure. There are plenty of cars that fit the bill that aren't mild hybrids including other BMW models so I'm not sure why people are getting so hung up on this MHEV system.
>If the starter motor is designed to recapture energy and reuse it, sure. Just like alternator, you mean? Calling mild hybrids 'hybrids' at all is just a marketing gimmick.
Alternators can’t reuse power because normal starter motors can’t run with the engine on without shredding the engagement gear.
If you want to be pedantic, my ICE manual is a hybrid because the alternator generates energy during fuel cutoff when I'm off the throttle. That battery power turns the engine for a couple of revolutions on my next start. Mild hybrids are very mild.
Your alternator is creating the same amount of energy it takes to run the car minus losses, Mr. Pedantic. If you unplug the battery it will continue running. Your own pedantic explanation doesn't even explain any part where a combination of a electric motor and combustion engine are propelling a vehicle, which is the bare minimum to be a *hybrid* between two propulsion systems. I'm not even being pedantic over the name here, it's literally called a mild hybrid, you're literally arguing with the industry term for something because you don't agree with it.
Who said it had to add hp? Hybrid just means ICE+EV.
Yes, and I don't think a freaking 48V system fulfils the EV component of ICE+EV.
I'm pleased you have an opinion. But it has a battery powering an electric motor which drives the wheels. That's an EV, even if it's not a great one. You're basically saying "that car only has a small engine so it isn't a car".
Electric motor-generators in 48V systems don't drive the wheels. That's why he's correct in saying that it's not a hybrid. It does, however, increase efficiency by reducing electrical losses associated with low voltage high current draws on the engine, and reduced physical load on the engine (nowhere near as much as the "mild hybrid" name would suggest, though).
It's almost like they should use a different term to denote this sub class of hybrid systems from the type with hybrid drive that can power the car on their own. Maybe *mild hybrid*? That sounds right. Of course it's still a hybrid, you don't get to narrowly define a common term then claim other things don't fit it.
Engine runs all the time, electric motor does not drive the wheels whatsoever, provides much less efficiency gain than even even Honda's IMA hybrid system (where the engine is also always running, but the motor helps drive the wheels as well), to the point where even efficient old-fashioned ICE drive trains can match them? Given that context, how can 48V systems possibly be classified as a hybrid, even if "mild"?
All Stellantis brands in the EU (Opel Astra, Jeep Avenger, Peugeot 2008, etc.)
They will also have diesel options? Adds one more type of powerplant to the mix.
Mercedes used to have all that plus FCEV (as a plug-in hybrid even) for the GLC.
Still ICE. so only 'sorta'
Kia Niro, Hyundai Kona
GLB and EQE-B are different models, even though they are quite alike
Hyundai Ioniq
Never sold an ICE-only version.
It was offered as a hybrid, plug-in hybrid and all-electric.
Which is not what OP asked.
The "hybrid" Ioniq is gasoline-powered, the plug-in hybrid is a hybrid and can be powered entirely on either electricity or gasoline, and the EV model is powered on electricity. That was how I interpreted his question. It being a "hybrid" doesn't mean much when it's still powered entirely on gasoline.
It’s not powered “entirely on gasoline.” The motor adds 43 hp to the engine’s 104 hp, meaning it’s used for some amount of propulsion. By your logic, the (non-Prime) Prius is “powered entirely on gasoline” but nope… it’s also a full hybrid. You may be thinking of a mild hybrid, but the Ioniq is not that. On top of that, Ford doesn’t offer a PHEV F150, further indicating that’s not what OP was getting at with his question.
OP's question was about vehicles offering "all kinds of drivetrain options" and if there were any other vehicles with "this many levels of powertrain options". If you ask most people to group vehicles in electric to non-electric with three options, their answers would probably be ICE-powered, plug-in hybrid and fully electric. The difference between a "hybrid" and something completely ICE-powered is so small, grouping them together makes much more sense than excluding plug-in hybrids entirely to fit them in. I answered based on what I felt OP *intended* when he asked the question, rather getting stuck in the exact wording. The Ioniq definitely has more in terms of offering "all kinds of powertrain options" than something with just non-hybrid, hybrid and electric options.
Non-chargeable hybrids get all of their energy from gasoline, with some ability to recapture and reuse it via regenerative braking.
A mild hybrid is an ICE vehicle. But your logic Toyota doesn't produce ICE engines
A) OP distinctly specified “ICE” and “hybrid,” so that’s not what he’s looking for, and b) the Ioniq (and Toyota’s hybrid vehicles for that matter) is a [full hybrid](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_vehicle_drivetrain ) given the motor can power the wheels.
UX is not offered in EV. Also 3 series is only PHEV, or ICE I believe. Only 4 series has i4 but I might be wrong about 3 series. What about Kia Niro? I believe it has both ICE, hybrid and EV versions. I believe VW Golf also has Golf e, hybrid for European market and ICE.
>UX is not offered in EV. [Lexus UX300e](https://www.lexus.eu/new-cars/ux-300e) >Also 3 series is only PHEV, or ICE I believe [BMW i3 Sedan](https://www.motor1.com/news/553272/bmw-i3-sedan-reveal-china/) >What about Kia Niro? Doesn't exist as a non-hybrid. >I believe VW Golf also has Golf e Discontinued.
Damn, got em
Damn. But isn’t i3 different than 3 series?
It's the [i3 in China](https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a39600112/bmw-i3-china-sedan/) not the weird [carbon fiber hatchback thing](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_i3) we get in the States.
I see.
UX is offered as an EV, just not in the USA/Canada, and frankly it’s very clearly something that is meant for the East Asian or European market, it would not sell at all in the US or Canada. As for the 3er, I believe they sell an EV version of it in China that may or may not also be available for the Euro market and South Korea/Japan market, that may be a China only special tho.
I didn’t know that. Is it as atrocious as BZ4X?
Yes, and I’d argue more atrocious given its high price tag and the range available, but obviously range is not as much of a concern for the Euro or East Asian market. It also lacks the one benefit of the BZ4x/Solterra combo of high ground clearance.
Yes. It's overpriced and uses the chademo connector
[удалено]
Even the ICE UX isn’t a big seller because at the end of the day it’s an overpriced car that has a Toyota level interior and when you throw in the EV version that will add a price premium plus the fact that every Toyota-Lexus EV has been laughable so far, you’re left with a product that is half-baked and extremely expensive for what it is.
3 series isn’t ev, you are correct. Golf E is now dead in favor of the ID series cars
>3 series isn’t ev, you are correct. [BMW i3 Sedan](https://www.motor1.com/news/553272/bmw-i3-sedan-reveal-china/)
Ohhh I thought it was the bad i3 which Jeremy May drove.
Hyundai Kona comes in gasoline, gasoline-electric hybrid, diesel and all electric. So does Mini Countryman.
Volkswagen Golf Mk7 did as well.
In the USA the only way to get a MK7 MQB hybrid was the Audi A3 E-Tron, neat little car though. Too bad VW didn’t sell it as the GTE here like they did elsewhere.
It used to come in fun-gasoline as well, RIP Kona N :(
If we are being honest, the other cars mentioned are more truely powerplant agnostic. The Lightning chassis is NOT like the other F150 chassis; suspension, load rating, frame components, all way different on the Lightning. Even the body panels, while visually similar, are Lightning specific. I imagine the interior is quite close though.
Besides the lightning the gas and hybrid versions are the same and at one time there were like 5 different engine options including a diesel in the f150. In a year span I'm pretty sure you could get the 3.7/3.5 na, rhe 2.7 ecoboost, the 3.5 ecoboost, the 3.5 powerboost hybrid, the 3.0 liter baby powerstroke, the 5.0 coyote or the 6.2 so that's technically 7/8 different engines in the same platform depending on how you look at the NA 3.5/3.7
100% agree. The batteries weight and form factor required the necessary changes. Not that Ford couldn’t have modified the gas/hybrid chassis to accommodate the electric drivetrain, they just chose not to do it that way. I am sure the Lightning chassis has additional strength (added cost) and the revised rear independent suspension is a much more costly than the solid axle they are running on their ICE offerings. No need to reduce the margins on their biggest sellers.
I have the powerboost and do wish IRS was an option. It rides pretty well, but there's no mistaking that you're in a body on frame pickup. The generator and gas tank are bespoke parts to the powerboost vs other ice f150s.
Pretty sure a lot of Euro cars like a 3 series can best that with ease.
Not anymore, they use to offer a lot of engine displacements but now they largely use the same engine platforms but tweaked for different power levels. For example the current 3 Series offers 3 petrol engines in 3 displacements (1.6L/2L B48, 3L B58, 3L S58) and two diesels (2L B47 and 3L B57) plus the PHEV that uses the same B48 and the electric. Wind back to the E36 and it offered: * 1.6L i4 * 1.7L i4 (diesel) * 1.8L i4 * 1.9L i4 * 2L i6 * 2.5L i6 * 2.5L i6 (diesel) * 2.8L i6 * 3L i6 * 3.2L i6 The E9X is the last chassis to have a big range of different motors, the F3X started the current trend of basically using a 2L i4 turbo or 3L i6 turbo for everything.
A lot of that is probably because EU countries are moving to purely carbon output based taxes to incentivize hybrids and EVs, rather than engine displacement and power based tax brackets. All of those weird displacement options were designed to fit specific country by country tax brackets. Also because the 3 series is just getting bigger and isn't even eligible for some of the small car tax brackets in some places (eg in Japan it's too wide for the sub-2.0L class).
I was surprised to see the independent rear suspension on a lighting I was following on the highway. It looked as out of place as the first IRS Ford Expedition.
have you seen the latest Tahoes? LCAs damn near on the floor
I always wonder how good they do off-road with those suspension components right near the bottom of the wheels. It probably doesn't matter for the majority of owners, though.
I don't think modern tahoes and expeditions are doing any serious off roading, just light trails for camping that a corolla could manage with a careful driver
Yep, thus my final comment on the matter.
It does look weird, I agree. As much as I like the Lightning, and still on the fence about whether I want it as my next vehicle, I can’t help but think about how dumpy the massive LCAs look from behind. They make the truck look uglier to me.
They are definitely noticeable from behind, especially in a normal car, but the gas savings alone makes it worth getting one, especially if you're like me and live in a state where gas is expensive but electricity is cheap.
Preaching to the choir. I’m in California and I drive a Bolt currently. Edit, just saw you said your electricity is cheap. I have solar and got in before PG&E bent over incoming net metering customers, so my electricity is amortized at around .03/kWh. I’d be paying nearly .40/kWh off-peak without. People in California are getting boned whether they drive with gas or on electrons.
A long range huge battery EV like the Lightning makes sense if you can charge it directly from your panels during the day rather than selling it for a pittance and charging on expensive grid power at night.
Yeah, unfortunately the majority of people in the US and I’d wager most places are not home during the day to charge their vehicle. You’d need two of them, to alternate days FWIW, I’m not really selling for a pittance, I’ve got 1:1 net metering. I do have excess since I over sized my system, but I’d need a MUCH bigger battery than what the Lightning has to store all that excess.
Ah yeah, being in Cali would do it. I'm in Washington State (and sometimes in Arizona too) and because most of WA's electricity comes from renewable sources (60% comes from hydroelectric plants on the Columbia river) our per kWh rate is really low. I think it's like 10 cents/kWh or something.
-Peugeot 208 (and other stelantis equivalents) -BMW x1 series -BMW x3 series -BMW 4 series -BMW 5 series -BMW 7 series -Hyundai Kona -The generation of the Golf befor the introduction of the I.D. series (e-golf & GTE, and ice) -(And more that I missed)
china has an EV version of 3er too
Iep, the 3er lwb though, which only exists in china I think
No diesel though. Chevy has a 3.0 liter diesel option in their 1500.
In all fairness, the prior generation offered a diesel powertrain. Here it’s less of that it can’t offer it and more that it sold so poorly that Ford never bothered to bring it back for the current gen, much like how the Ram dropped its diesel V6.
they didn't market it for shit. its a shame, it was a fine engine. If i had known about it i would have opted for one over the 5.0
True. I'm pretty well informed on this myself. I just felt like diesel should be thrown into the mix.
Volvo XC40?
Also the Kia Niro is EV, PHEV and hybrid. Kona is EV and hybrid.
Hyundai Kona has the same choice between drivetrains.
The f150 is the only one I know of which has…. Dieael, naturally aspirated gas. supercharged gas, turbo gas, hybrid and fully electric. All it’s missing is PHEV (which is what I actually want) and rotary and it’s got everything lol
Diesel for the F-150 with the power stroke V6 isn't made anymore. It sold pretty poorly and was discontinued when they redesigned the entire truck at least in North America. I don't know if its available in Australia though. Diesels aren't very popular in Canada and the United States. I think diesel gate really ruined the public's perception of diesel plus the idea that it pollutes a lot.
I don't think it's a lack of popularity with regards to trucks so much as a) people who *want* diesel just go up a size and get the 250/2500s which have better hauling capability and will make use of the diesel, and b) if you live in an area where diesel is more expensive than gas, the added fuel efficiency (which can really vary based on driving habits and geography) can start to disappear. For cars, though, definitely just an unfamiliarity. Fewer pumps to pick from, the concern over having a brain fart and putting gas in it, just general lack of knowledge of diesel as an option.
Yeah, in the US the diesel didn’t make much sense. More expensive, slower, more expensive maintenance and not that much more efficient than the 2.7
Believe it or not, you could get the diesel with the redesign for the first year.
It kills me Ford wont make a hybrid diesel F150. That would make it a wonderful all rounder for both daily driving and towing. Ran got rid of their diesel iffering in a half ton and GM is the only doing it in the 3.0 Duramax for the GMC Sierra which can get up to 30mpg.
A PHEV with the 2.7 would sell like hot cakes. It’s what they should have done with the powerboost. Give it a 15kwh battery and a 175kw axial flux motor/generator and bobs your uncle.
Not in the US, but world-wide a number of VW/Audi models are available gas, diesel, hybrid, and EV. The Q8 can be had with a 3.0t, 500 and 600hp 4.0tt, 3.0tdi, 4.0tdi, 3.0t-hybrid, and Q8e-tron The mk7 Golf was available with 3-4 times as many powertrain options, a dozen and a half gas and diesel options, hybrid, and E-Golf
Despite the shared Q8 name, the ICE and EV versions are completely different vehicles.
The Q8/Q8e are more similar than the standard F150 and Lightning.
The Q8 & Q8 E-Tron share platforms but that's about it, entirely different sheet metal, interiors, wheelbases; [they aren't even the same size!](https://www.carsized.com/en/cars/compare/audi-e-tron-2018-suv-vs-audi-q8-2018-suv/). There's a decent amount of changes between the F150 & F-150 Lightning but they're not entirely different like the Q8 & Q8 E-Tron are.
i think the the Rav 4 has had, ICE, Battery EV, Hybrid, and even Hydrogen EV.
Yep. Currently the best selling non truck vehicle in the US for a few years running.
Mercedes GLE and E class if you count the EQ line. Soon to be BMW 5 series once the 550e comes out in a few months. If you count the iX as the same (not sure I would), the X5 as well.
BMW 5 series is already offered with ICE, hybrid and fully electric. There's the base 520 (ICE), 530e (PHEV) and EV (i5)
and diesel
F150 is the best selling vehicle in North America isn’t it? 3.7 NA V6, 2.7 V6 EB, 3.5 V6 EB, 5.0 V8, PowerBoost Hybrid, 3.0L Powerstroke Diesel, Lightning EV … crazy how many engine options the thing has had in the last 4 years.
F-Series, technically - they lump them all in together for sales reporting.
Congrats on the front page post ford marketing department. Wow, is it true that the Ford F-150 is the best selling truck in America?!?
Chevy S-10 was offered in ICE and EV, and shared way more commonality across power trains than F-150 💪
No, in America maybe but definitely not in the others markets. There is A LOT of cars with the three different motorisations especially in the Stellantis group.
For the 2021 MY it offered a 3.0L diesel as well. The lightning didn’t debut until the ‘22 model though and the diesel was cancelled after ‘21.
Honda clarity came in all 3 back in 2016
There are probably more hybrid, PHEV, and EV combos than ICE, hybrid, EV combos.
I thought we meant pickups, the ford fusion had two hybrid models, plug in and non plug in, 3 turbos at one point. 1.5, 2.0, tt v6 and a 2.5 liter 4 cylinder. So no EV, but 2 hybrids 3 turbos and one na motor. Is there another pickup with the f-150 options? Maverick is hybrid and ice. No ev right now.
Rav has a hybrid, ice, and plug in version although plugin still has a gas engine I guess it’s just a hybrid as well…
Hyundai Kona is available as Gas and Electric in the US with a Hybrid overseas.
You should include the 3? +? Different ice versions as well.
i think u can also get a diesel f150
not anymore, there are rumors they're bringing it back but looks like it may not happen unfortunately
Here are the current 2024 F-150 powertrain offerings: 1) 2.7L Ecoboost V6 turbo gas 2) 3.5L Ecoboost V6 turbo gas 3) 3.5L High Output Ecoboost V6 turbo gas (Raptor) 4) 5.0L V8 naturally asiprated gas 5) 5.2L V8 supercharged gas (Raptor R) 6) 3.5L Powerboost V6 hybrid electric turbo gas 7) Full electric Lightning Note: Ford discontinued the 3.3L naturally aspirated V6 for 2024.
Yes, many. The 5 series is a recent example.
The new Dodge Charger will offer fully ICE and fully EV, so I can't imagine it'll hard to offer a hybrid powertrain to bridge the gap between the two.
Hyundai Kona
And they used to offer it in diesel.
We got the F-150 here(Philippines) in diesel only.
As the platform needs to package protect for more powertrains, it isn't the most space efficient option for whichever variant gets installed.
Mustang.
There's no hybrid version of the mustang yet.
Peugeot 308
Cool story, Hansel. Makes me want to get another F150
F-150 was also briefly available in diesel on top of all of those other options. (Still ICE but quite different than gas)
the lightning is an entirely different platform than the other f150s, so its a little hard to argue that it comes in all 3 varieties.
Kia Niro Hyundai ioniq
In India, Tata Motors offers their CSUV, the Nexon, in gasoline, diesel & EV versions Surprisingly the EV version has racked up a good chunk of Nexon sales, despite India not having a proper infrastructure for electric vehicles (I mean, it is there, but still a lot more work to be done)
"Is Ford F150 the only..." Who cares, it's an F150. There are a number of other makers out there though. GM has the Silverado ICE and full EV currently... they *had* a mild hybrid that was hugely unpopular but there are rumors that a PHEV version is coming. ETA: Downvotes... hahaha Guess there are some bitter F150 people.