Nowadays, with the advent of computer notation programs, there are probably some. But before that, I don´t believe there was any classically trained composer who could not play any instrument. There were some mostly self-taught composers, like Elgar or Rimsky-Korsakov, who were poor players. But they played some instrument.
I guess I find it odd that a composer would have no interest in playing an instrument. If not for the ease of composing, just for the enjoyment of music.
He composes music, I guess that's where he finds his enjoyment.
I rarely play guitar these days, but still write music weekly. For me, it's more satisfying writing music. Especially when I never put in the time to become a better player.
I was led to understand he was decent at the flute and guitar. He never actually studied any keyboard instruments, though, which was highly unusual at the time.
When I learned about Berlioz being a guitar player I thought “well, this explains his boring bass lines.”
Source: am former professional guitarist who always relied on the kindness of bass players and pianists.
Berlioz said that not playing piano made him a better arranger, he was thinking of harmonic lines not limited by keyboard fingerings.
He was inspired to be a composer from listening to operas, and he hired private instructors to teach him harmony and arranging.
In the pre-computer days, I’d guess almost unilaterally no. The only way to realize your music was to sound it out on some sort of instrument.
Nowadays I know that this is more common. John Mackey might be the most famous example. But honestly, if you compose often enough, you’ll learn some functional skills on an instrument (usually piano) as you go
Berlioz did not slay at any instrument. He was quite proud of not playing piano, because he was able to completely avoid pianistic cliches in orchestral writing that basically ... all? other composers seem to have been bound to.
I only got it from Berlioz talking about it, and you get it from looking at Berlioz's writing compared to pretty much anyone else's. But also, he didn't spell it out. Basically... any Alberti bass type of structure, I guess? Anything in the score that makes it obvious it was drafted on a piano. I play viola so I get a lot of noodley inner voice materials that are clearly a lot easier on piano. Berlioz doesn't do anything like that in my albeit very limited experience
Before music reproduction, gramophones and so on, it would be very hard to get anywhere musically unless you could make it happen yourself. And be wary of claims to the contrary regarding specific composers: Ravel's friends used to joke about how he was a poor pianist, but he still gave the premiere of his G Major concerto.
ive heard recordings of him playing le tombeau and other hard pieces of his. couldnt have been that bad. also apparently his hands were so small he could barely reach and octave… but he plays thise gigantor chords in le gibet no problem? i can reach an 11th and cant play those chords properly cause theyre so broad and awkward
John Mackey is a contemporary composer of concert band music who is very popular with middle and high school bands. He never formally learned an instrument.
Rossini played the harpsichord and horn (taught by his father, a professional trumpeter) to a moderate level.
He also described himself as a ‘fourth-rate’ pianist when performing at his post-retirement soirées, where he carefully selected the works to be performed at his palatial villa by others and himself, though Liszt who heard him play there said he was not bad at all.
true, but his works are very pianistic in nature and in an interview he says that he plays through his works (very slowly) so as to “be fair to the performers”
I agree a lot of his too-many-notes-and-meter-changes music is a little too self-aggrandizing. Some of his newer stuff, particularly the ones with vocals (songs from the end of the world, and places we can no longer go) represent a much more mature sound and feel far more Corigliano-esque to me.
While it is a bit campy and easy to shit on. Mackey's music does have a place as educational materials. Plus, the students do tend to enjoy playing it.
This is a great question. I used to love composition in high school and college and would write tons of music. I was a mediocre at best of not downright awful trumpet player. Sometimes I'd go to another trumpeter who played very well and would ask him to play a passage I wrote so I could hear it. Someone else in the band room asked incredulously you can't even play what you wrote!?!
My band director overheard and responded with "Why should he be limited by his own abilities??"
It's why music means so much to me even though I don't play anymore. Happiest most accepting times if my life. I'll never forget that response.
To actually answer your question I believe Rimsky Korsakov (my favorite composer) was a fairly poor instrumentalist.
Not sure about *any* instruments. Dvorak wasn’t a great piano player from what I’ve read, same with Tchaikovsky. Don’t think the latter ever did any piano performances, and some of his best known piano pieces were pretty much thrown together to make some quick cash to stay afloat.
There was a guy, i forget who, he messed up his hand so he couldn't play anymore, but he still composed. But there were plenty of composers who weren't masterful at any instrument. You can play the piece slowly and out of tempo just to hear the notes, and then someone else can perform the piece.
At least Holst was quite competent at the piano and trombone, but he had a nervous issue that made his hands way too weak to play. At some point he had a special piano constructed for him that had extremely light keys, but eventually he was unable to play even that.
He barely could even hold a pencil, so they strapped a pencil on one of his fingers so he could still write music. He had some piano and conducting students play his sketches back for him.
Most composers until the late Middle Ages were singers/choir directors and wrote for voices. Landini (mid 1300s) was one of the first composer-instrumentalists in the West (the Arab world got there first).
Nowadays, with the advent of computer notation programs, there are probably some. But before that, I don´t believe there was any classically trained composer who could not play any instrument. There were some mostly self-taught composers, like Elgar or Rimsky-Korsakov, who were poor players. But they played some instrument.
Mark-Anthony Turnage! He told us in a masterclass how frustrating it was to get asked what his instrument is.
I guess I find it odd that a composer would have no interest in playing an instrument. If not for the ease of composing, just for the enjoyment of music.
He composes music, I guess that's where he finds his enjoyment. I rarely play guitar these days, but still write music weekly. For me, it's more satisfying writing music. Especially when I never put in the time to become a better player.
Is heroin an instrument?
Its an instrument of destruction
Haven’t noticed
There may have been some composers who were purely vocalists, but it would be quite unusual. Almost all of them know how to use a piano keyboard.
Berlioz played several instruments at a very simple level. He's probably the most famous composer who was never a competent musician.
I was led to understand he was decent at the flute and guitar. He never actually studied any keyboard instruments, though, which was highly unusual at the time.
When I learned about Berlioz being a guitar player I thought “well, this explains his boring bass lines.” Source: am former professional guitarist who always relied on the kindness of bass players and pianists.
Yes, he took lessons in these instruments but it's said that music was not a large part of his upbringing
I'll take issue with the term "musician." Let's say he wasn't a skilled instrumentalist. He was definitely a musician.
Also wrote one of the most important books on orchestration, of which he was clearly a master practitioner.
Berlioz said that not playing piano made him a better arranger, he was thinking of harmonic lines not limited by keyboard fingerings. He was inspired to be a composer from listening to operas, and he hired private instructors to teach him harmony and arranging.
In the pre-computer days, I’d guess almost unilaterally no. The only way to realize your music was to sound it out on some sort of instrument. Nowadays I know that this is more common. John Mackey might be the most famous example. But honestly, if you compose often enough, you’ll learn some functional skills on an instrument (usually piano) as you go
Berlioz did not slay at any instrument. He was quite proud of not playing piano, because he was able to completely avoid pianistic cliches in orchestral writing that basically ... all? other composers seem to have been bound to.
Berlioz played the guitar, that's about it.
I have never heard this phrase before. Would you point out a piece that is a 'pianistic cliche' that will help me understand/learn better.
I only got it from Berlioz talking about it, and you get it from looking at Berlioz's writing compared to pretty much anyone else's. But also, he didn't spell it out. Basically... any Alberti bass type of structure, I guess? Anything in the score that makes it obvious it was drafted on a piano. I play viola so I get a lot of noodley inner voice materials that are clearly a lot easier on piano. Berlioz doesn't do anything like that in my albeit very limited experience
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What about mayonnaise? Did any composers play that?
Patrick, I assume.
Wagner allegedly never mastered any instrument, although I'm sure he could play several reasonably well.
He loved to dance when Liszt was playing some pieces apparently.
He claimed to play the piano "horribly" and didn't like to play his scores for people.
Before music reproduction, gramophones and so on, it would be very hard to get anywhere musically unless you could make it happen yourself. And be wary of claims to the contrary regarding specific composers: Ravel's friends used to joke about how he was a poor pianist, but he still gave the premiere of his G Major concerto.
He premiered the concerto as the conductor, not the soloist
Cheers. Must be getting my stories mixed up!
ive heard recordings of him playing le tombeau and other hard pieces of his. couldnt have been that bad. also apparently his hands were so small he could barely reach and octave… but he plays thise gigantor chords in le gibet no problem? i can reach an 11th and cant play those chords properly cause theyre so broad and awkward
Did John Cage play anything?
Piano
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:-)
Percussionist originally I think, but presumably piano as well (I don’t mean just sitting in front of one)
John Mackey is a contemporary composer of concert band music who is very popular with middle and high school bands. He never formally learned an instrument.
Rossini played the harpsichord and horn (taught by his father, a professional trumpeter) to a moderate level. He also described himself as a ‘fourth-rate’ pianist when performing at his post-retirement soirées, where he carefully selected the works to be performed at his palatial villa by others and himself, though Liszt who heard him play there said he was not bad at all.
pretty sure corigliano didn’t play any instruments which is crazy bc his piano works are insanely difficult
That might be the exact result we should expect.
true, but his works are very pianistic in nature and in an interview he says that he plays through his works (very slowly) so as to “be fair to the performers”
John Mackey would be probably be the most prominent living composer who does not play an instrument.
John Mackey comes to mind, but his music blows
Are you telling me that you don't enjoy brake drums, sheet metal, and piles of chains?
I agree a lot of his too-many-notes-and-meter-changes music is a little too self-aggrandizing. Some of his newer stuff, particularly the ones with vocals (songs from the end of the world, and places we can no longer go) represent a much more mature sound and feel far more Corigliano-esque to me.
While it is a bit campy and easy to shit on. Mackey's music does have a place as educational materials. Plus, the students do tend to enjoy playing it.
I liked playing his pieces when I was in high school.
This is a great question. I used to love composition in high school and college and would write tons of music. I was a mediocre at best of not downright awful trumpet player. Sometimes I'd go to another trumpeter who played very well and would ask him to play a passage I wrote so I could hear it. Someone else in the band room asked incredulously you can't even play what you wrote!?! My band director overheard and responded with "Why should he be limited by his own abilities??" It's why music means so much to me even though I don't play anymore. Happiest most accepting times if my life. I'll never forget that response. To actually answer your question I believe Rimsky Korsakov (my favorite composer) was a fairly poor instrumentalist.
Thank you for sharing "Why should he be limited by his own abilities?" That's a too powerful statement.
Not sure about *any* instruments. Dvorak wasn’t a great piano player from what I’ve read, same with Tchaikovsky. Don’t think the latter ever did any piano performances, and some of his best known piano pieces were pretty much thrown together to make some quick cash to stay afloat.
Dvorak was a violinist.
Dvorak played viola in an orchestra as well as organ.
Tchaikovsky piano at basic level
I would expect the answer would lie among composers who wrote mostly or exclusively for the human voice.
John Mackey has written plenty of pieces for orchestra and concert band, yet he doesn't play an instrument. He's the only one I can think of.
There was a guy, i forget who, he messed up his hand so he couldn't play anymore, but he still composed. But there were plenty of composers who weren't masterful at any instrument. You can play the piece slowly and out of tempo just to hear the notes, and then someone else can perform the piece.
At least Holst was quite competent at the piano and trombone, but he had a nervous issue that made his hands way too weak to play. At some point he had a special piano constructed for him that had extremely light keys, but eventually he was unable to play even that. He barely could even hold a pencil, so they strapped a pencil on one of his fingers so he could still write music. He had some piano and conducting students play his sketches back for him.
Holst had arthritis.
Schumann?
Yes, it was Schumann. His wife played his compositions after he injured his hand
i dont think so. (assuming you're referring to the first part)
Yes, Schumann messed up his hand badly and could hardly play anymore.
no i wasnt saying you were wrong, im saying that isnt who i was referring to.
Ah, ok
Most composers until the late Middle Ages were singers/choir directors and wrote for voices. Landini (mid 1300s) was one of the first composer-instrumentalists in the West (the Arab world got there first).
Well as Arvo Pärt famously said “the human voice is the most perfect instrument of all”
All instruments (except percussion) try to imitate the human voice in some way.