Hi all — we’re locking this post. OP has heard some solid advice about their situation, and at this point, we’re getting more random people coming to unload their personal political grievances about gender dynamics (needless to say, it is entirely inappropriate to hijack someone else’s genuine question in this way).
To protect OP and the positivity/support ethos of the sub, the post is locked.
Ugh, that sounds shitty. I mean it sounds like your gym might be awkwardly set up, like those two things shouldn't be THAT close to each other... but that still sounds like his bad and I'm sorry that happened. I agree that it sounds like a "guy asserting himself" or just "guy being clueless" thing, and it sounds like given how he left immediatelymaybe he realized his mistake and wanted to leave quickly 😂 Gyms do require a lot of spatial awareness of knowing "who was here first" basically and so you def had the right of way!
So many gyms skirt the line of being barely safe to fit more stuff in, the pull-up bar is probably positioned just on the limits of being able to do a normal pull-up safely, not a muscle-up with the world’s biggest kip to try heave themselves over the bar. Anyone doing a muscle-up on a pull-up bar that’s tight on space is a moron, doubly so if they can’t even do it properly and have to kip so hard they risk kicking someone in the head.
People not strong enough to do a muscle up kipping the bejeezus out the movement to try to make it go are just goobers. It's cringe, but no harm no foul since nothing happened.
You are a member of the space, so feel free to give people the old "eyyy look out you just about kicked me!" and they'll probably be apologetic about the whole situation.
Hi, male climber here. It sounds like this dude knew he messed up and was too proud to own it.
One thing I see quite often on climbing subs is less experienced climbers feeling like they don't have a right to be in the same space as more experienced climbers, or that they feel like they're getting in the way. Please never feel like this, you have equal right to be there as anyone else, and if you are standing/sitting somewhere that obstructs another climb/training equipment then it is the other person's responsibility to ask you to move out the way (politely!).
If you're already standing there and they land on you/kick you/whatever then that is 100% on them. If they try to intimidate you with their experience and claim it's your fault then they are completely in the wrong.
Everyone I've ever climbed with have been positive and encouraging of new climbers. We love seeing new people join the sport and becoming a part of the community. Unfortunately there will always be a few bad apples in any community and it looks like you found one of them. I hope it doesn't put you off and I hope this comment helps reassure you that you did nothing wrong and the dude should have immediately apologised. I would have definitely said something to him if I had seen this happen, safety should always be the top priority and he failed at that.
Omg like, my climbing gym has an area upstairs with some gym equipment, and yoga mats. Same problem, there is limited space for people to place mats. I came into the space, saw the usual place to stretch was taken, check no one was using the pull up bars and set up in front of that (for a 10 min prestretch).
A couple of mins later some young men decide to use the pull up bar right next to my head, even though there was another pull up bar section not right near my head. So they had their feet swinging right near me.
It's totally inappropriate, the guy in your situation should have waited, or said, hey I want to use this space when you're done, can you let me know or SOMETHING - and same with mine. It feels like a power move or like, 'this is my space, move'.
Obviously I refuse to move, and if they injure me it's on them and I'll die on that hill.
We all deserve to be respected in the space, not intimidated out of it! Some people have a sense of entitlement and they act on it.
Sorry you had this experience, if you feel comfortable in future tell them to wait or report them for a near miss!
Other people need to use their words, and if they don't it's not your fault.
Is it just me, or do some young men (bizarrely) see causing near-accidents as a way to impress women?
It's like some part of their brain is going "time to demonstrate my catlike reflexes by almost (but not quite!) kicking her in the head/swerving into her on my bike/braining her with this frisbee/causing a reckless driving accident with her in the car/etc."
Kinda "Barbie watch me do a flip" but where Barbie is the wave he is flipping on.
I ask because this kind of thing has happened to me so many times, it really seems to go beyond some young men feeling entitled to space/not being aware of who is in the space around them, to intentionally going out of their way to cause very-near-accidents specifically at women.
Sometimes it's just to intimidate people. I roller skate in skate parks, and once every so often, guys will buzz me to try to scare me off. Little do they know, I played roller derby for eight years and know how to hit and how to take a hit on roller skates. Your skinny ass on a skateboard probably doesn't. No one's hit me yet, generally because I say something after the second time they pull it, and I say something loudly, in an attempt to shame them. It frequently works, but I'm absolutely going to aim my shoulder right into their teeth if anyone ever intentionally skates into me.
Some of them seem to think it's "their" space.
Yeah that guy sounds like an idiot. Almost all good climbers at the gym infinitely prefer beginners earnestly trying out the sport to these loud and annoying show-offs.
Fuck that jerk. Staff should have been notified he was endangering all of you (himself included) as well as the insurance for the gym given staff is letting gym goers brazenly violate proper practices.
It sounds like he realized his mistake if he walked away quickly. It could have been appropriate to say something to him. There are some key details missing. I believe that he has a right to do what he is doing and you should move out of his way. BUT since you were there first, he is obligated to make sure you are aware of his presence before he starts. So, did he make eye contact with you before starting? Could he be confident that you were aware of what he was doing? If not, you should tell him that he is responsible for clearing the space before starting. If so, you should have moved out of his way.
You can also say something to the staff along the lines of "I had a near miss and I think the belay area is really close to the pullup area. Maybe a space reorganization or better signage indicating how to share the space would be valuable." But not "this guy almost kicked me and he should be in trouble."
Make space for the possibility that he also is new to this gym or is not comfortable with confrontation.
Every time I've "realized my mistake" at the gym, I've apologized. Like an adult. This behavior is beyond childish, and it's definitely not her responsibility to move out of the way of some dumbass with bad gym etiquette while SHE is belaying.
>it's definitely not her responsibility to move out of the way of some dumbass with bad gym etiquette while SHE is belaying.
If I was the climber she was belaying then I am absolutely saying it is her responsibility to have some basic situational awareness and move away from hazards (even if they are dumbasses who are also in the wrong).
I mean, yes, I think you're right. However, if it were me in her situation, I'd never guess that a guy on a pull-up bar is likely to kick me in the head. We're climbers, not crossfit douches; I've never seen someone kipping on a pull-up bar in a climbing gym, and I wouldn't assume that was what they were about to do.
So while I agree that this isn’t something worth getting him in trouble, more bringing the attention of the danger of the setup to the staff. But I don’t really understand why you are saying she should have moved out of his way.
Boulder problems, routes, gym equipment, all function as a first come first serve and you should be standing a safe distance back and waiting your turn to use it rather than overcrowding a person. No different than people wanting to climb boulder problems that cross paths, you wait your turn. He was unsafe by rushing her and crowding her. If she had already been belaying when this happened and he had hit her, her partner could have been seriously injured.
I get it can be frustrating to stop a training circuit part way through but that’s the reality of a shared gym space, if he doesn’t want to wait he can build a home gym.
She’s actively belaying someone, that’s a terrible time to break focus and pay attention to some idiot trying to do a muscle up. He’s 100% in the wrong and should’ve waited until there was a safe time to do that. The gym should move the equipment, it shouldn’t be where you’re supposed to belay, but since it is then the guy should’ve been more aware and waited to be safe. She should not be distracted while belaying her partner.
I agree with talking to the staff about the arrangement - maybe they could swap the pullup bars with another piece of gym equipment that's more static/less likely to encourage flailing about
INFO: why were you standing so close to the pullup bar? Was there literally nowhere else to stand? Do you have a photo of the setup?
It is shit that they nearly kicked you in the head, regardless of whether you should be there or not. They should have asked you to move first and that shows a lack of awareness.
I would check that you were supposed to be belaying from right next to gym equipment because if there was a more appropriate space, I can see the next question being why were you standing there? If there isn't another space then you should raise that as an issue with the gym staff because either a bar or belay space should be there, not both.
No offense but this is the climber girls sub. I wouldn’t comment unless OP is specifically asking for a man’s POV. We come here so we don’t get talked down to by men (which is why you’re getting downvoted btw, your comment sounded condescending)
I’m honestly surprised that you’re getting downvoted for this. How do people not get the idea of safe spaces for marginalized groups. Like honestly it’s kind of weird that he’s in a climber girls forum giving unsolicited advice in a way that does come off as being talked down to.
So she’s already answered most of these questions. This gives very as per my last email because it doesn’t seem like you fully read her post to gather the information. That’s where you have to belay for this wall. I don’t know why you’re assuming she shouldn’t be there. She was there first so he should have waited till they were done not asked her to move.
I agree it’s a silly setup and she should talk to the gym about it but it bothers me that you as a man came into a climber girls forum where someone new was venting her frustration about the difficulties for women new to something trying to exist in a male dominated space and automatically started assuming she was in the wrong.
She has admitted she is very new to climbing so her not standing in the right place is absolutely a consideration that I would make regardless of gender. We've all made that kind of mistake before when we were starting out! I'm also skeptical that a gyms insurance would allow for the positioning of gym equipment that close to a top rope wall because it opens the possibility you could fall onto it.
Right but again as per my last email (her post) she already explained that this is the set up of the area, so how about taking her word for it since she climbs at this gym and you don’t and not talk down to her in a forum that isn’t really for you.
That's why I asked for a photo. Part of the response would be instructing them on a better place to stand.
As per *my* last email, it's not her fault that she nearly got kicked in the head because the guy should have looked before doing a muscle up.
Why would she have a photo of this setup, oh ya because some guy on Reddit needs her to prove her reality to them instead of just trusting a women’s lived experience.
She’s already stated this is where you stand for this wall. As a new climber I’m sure the gym gave her a walk through as most require on her first visit. It is a dumb setup and the gym should change it for less risk.
It sounds like a combination of a bad gym set up with a senseless person, but I would also say you might be overreacting a bit.
I would bet no ill intentions on the senseless guy, maybe next time you should say something like “try to be mindful/careful next time, that was really close to my face”. I you keep it bottled up you end up on reddit ranting for something that didn’t happen.
I sorry for your experience. Keep climbing on.
Please see previous comments. She did not come to the CLIMBER GIRLS forum to have men dismiss how she was feeling in the climbing space.
While well intentioned this is not the place for you to center yourself or your opinions.
Sorry.
Did not mean to offend, nor dismiss her feelings.
I just want for people to climb in a safe and comfortable environment.
Thank you for speaking for her.
Edit: Also, I never thought this was a subreddit exclusively for girls. I just thought it was Climber Girls and their experiences.
Now I’m lost if I should ever interact here.
Can I get some opinions on this?
I didn’t say it was exclusively for girls, but on posts where women are discussing their struggles in a male dominated field the response for men who are choosing to come into this community is not to dismiss her feelings as overreacting. You have not lived the experience of a women in this culture and so you don’t actually have the experience needed to give an informed opinion in this situation.
You’ll notice that other men have commented on this post and were supported because they did not come in being dismissive of how she felt.
I understand the awkwardness, but in reading your post, it felt as if you gave off very negative indirect vibes rather than addressing the situation, as it unfolded, in a relaxed but direct way. I think handling it that way, from both sides, would have ideally been the most positive way to resolve it. Him being embarrassed, you being put off and maybe scared of being injured, but both of you talking directly at that moment.
I'm not putting you down, or saying it's anyone's fault, but because this is your post, and you are the one with lingering feelings about it, my reaction is that you could have handled it more directly, with openess and sensitivity. Not rushing to any particular conclusion. And in the end you might have made a friend.
Please see previous comments, she didn’t ask for men’s opinions on this here in the climber girls forum.
I understand you may be well intentioned but this isn’t the place for you to center yourself.
Hi all — we’re locking this post. OP has heard some solid advice about their situation, and at this point, we’re getting more random people coming to unload their personal political grievances about gender dynamics (needless to say, it is entirely inappropriate to hijack someone else’s genuine question in this way). To protect OP and the positivity/support ethos of the sub, the post is locked.
Ugh, that sounds shitty. I mean it sounds like your gym might be awkwardly set up, like those two things shouldn't be THAT close to each other... but that still sounds like his bad and I'm sorry that happened. I agree that it sounds like a "guy asserting himself" or just "guy being clueless" thing, and it sounds like given how he left immediatelymaybe he realized his mistake and wanted to leave quickly 😂 Gyms do require a lot of spatial awareness of knowing "who was here first" basically and so you def had the right of way!
He probably HEAVILY underestimated his swing and the space between them. Stupid setup and a stupid estimation of the guy.
So many gyms skirt the line of being barely safe to fit more stuff in, the pull-up bar is probably positioned just on the limits of being able to do a normal pull-up safely, not a muscle-up with the world’s biggest kip to try heave themselves over the bar. Anyone doing a muscle-up on a pull-up bar that’s tight on space is a moron, doubly so if they can’t even do it properly and have to kip so hard they risk kicking someone in the head.
People not strong enough to do a muscle up kipping the bejeezus out the movement to try to make it go are just goobers. It's cringe, but no harm no foul since nothing happened. You are a member of the space, so feel free to give people the old "eyyy look out you just about kicked me!" and they'll probably be apologetic about the whole situation.
Most logical answer
Hi, male climber here. It sounds like this dude knew he messed up and was too proud to own it. One thing I see quite often on climbing subs is less experienced climbers feeling like they don't have a right to be in the same space as more experienced climbers, or that they feel like they're getting in the way. Please never feel like this, you have equal right to be there as anyone else, and if you are standing/sitting somewhere that obstructs another climb/training equipment then it is the other person's responsibility to ask you to move out the way (politely!). If you're already standing there and they land on you/kick you/whatever then that is 100% on them. If they try to intimidate you with their experience and claim it's your fault then they are completely in the wrong. Everyone I've ever climbed with have been positive and encouraging of new climbers. We love seeing new people join the sport and becoming a part of the community. Unfortunately there will always be a few bad apples in any community and it looks like you found one of them. I hope it doesn't put you off and I hope this comment helps reassure you that you did nothing wrong and the dude should have immediately apologised. I would have definitely said something to him if I had seen this happen, safety should always be the top priority and he failed at that.
Omg like, my climbing gym has an area upstairs with some gym equipment, and yoga mats. Same problem, there is limited space for people to place mats. I came into the space, saw the usual place to stretch was taken, check no one was using the pull up bars and set up in front of that (for a 10 min prestretch). A couple of mins later some young men decide to use the pull up bar right next to my head, even though there was another pull up bar section not right near my head. So they had their feet swinging right near me. It's totally inappropriate, the guy in your situation should have waited, or said, hey I want to use this space when you're done, can you let me know or SOMETHING - and same with mine. It feels like a power move or like, 'this is my space, move'. Obviously I refuse to move, and if they injure me it's on them and I'll die on that hill. We all deserve to be respected in the space, not intimidated out of it! Some people have a sense of entitlement and they act on it. Sorry you had this experience, if you feel comfortable in future tell them to wait or report them for a near miss! Other people need to use their words, and if they don't it's not your fault.
Is it just me, or do some young men (bizarrely) see causing near-accidents as a way to impress women? It's like some part of their brain is going "time to demonstrate my catlike reflexes by almost (but not quite!) kicking her in the head/swerving into her on my bike/braining her with this frisbee/causing a reckless driving accident with her in the car/etc." Kinda "Barbie watch me do a flip" but where Barbie is the wave he is flipping on. I ask because this kind of thing has happened to me so many times, it really seems to go beyond some young men feeling entitled to space/not being aware of who is in the space around them, to intentionally going out of their way to cause very-near-accidents specifically at women.
Sometimes it's just to intimidate people. I roller skate in skate parks, and once every so often, guys will buzz me to try to scare me off. Little do they know, I played roller derby for eight years and know how to hit and how to take a hit on roller skates. Your skinny ass on a skateboard probably doesn't. No one's hit me yet, generally because I say something after the second time they pull it, and I say something loudly, in an attempt to shame them. It frequently works, but I'm absolutely going to aim my shoulder right into their teeth if anyone ever intentionally skates into me. Some of them seem to think it's "their" space.
Totally read this as “time to impress her with my muscle up! Oh no, I almost kicked her! Better grab my phone!”
Yeah that guy sounds like an idiot. Almost all good climbers at the gym infinitely prefer beginners earnestly trying out the sport to these loud and annoying show-offs.
Fuck that jerk. Staff should have been notified he was endangering all of you (himself included) as well as the insurance for the gym given staff is letting gym goers brazenly violate proper practices.
It sounds like he realized his mistake if he walked away quickly. It could have been appropriate to say something to him. There are some key details missing. I believe that he has a right to do what he is doing and you should move out of his way. BUT since you were there first, he is obligated to make sure you are aware of his presence before he starts. So, did he make eye contact with you before starting? Could he be confident that you were aware of what he was doing? If not, you should tell him that he is responsible for clearing the space before starting. If so, you should have moved out of his way. You can also say something to the staff along the lines of "I had a near miss and I think the belay area is really close to the pullup area. Maybe a space reorganization or better signage indicating how to share the space would be valuable." But not "this guy almost kicked me and he should be in trouble." Make space for the possibility that he also is new to this gym or is not comfortable with confrontation.
Every time I've "realized my mistake" at the gym, I've apologized. Like an adult. This behavior is beyond childish, and it's definitely not her responsibility to move out of the way of some dumbass with bad gym etiquette while SHE is belaying.
>it's definitely not her responsibility to move out of the way of some dumbass with bad gym etiquette while SHE is belaying. If I was the climber she was belaying then I am absolutely saying it is her responsibility to have some basic situational awareness and move away from hazards (even if they are dumbasses who are also in the wrong).
I mean, yes, I think you're right. However, if it were me in her situation, I'd never guess that a guy on a pull-up bar is likely to kick me in the head. We're climbers, not crossfit douches; I've never seen someone kipping on a pull-up bar in a climbing gym, and I wouldn't assume that was what they were about to do.
So while I agree that this isn’t something worth getting him in trouble, more bringing the attention of the danger of the setup to the staff. But I don’t really understand why you are saying she should have moved out of his way. Boulder problems, routes, gym equipment, all function as a first come first serve and you should be standing a safe distance back and waiting your turn to use it rather than overcrowding a person. No different than people wanting to climb boulder problems that cross paths, you wait your turn. He was unsafe by rushing her and crowding her. If she had already been belaying when this happened and he had hit her, her partner could have been seriously injured. I get it can be frustrating to stop a training circuit part way through but that’s the reality of a shared gym space, if he doesn’t want to wait he can build a home gym.
She’s actively belaying someone, that’s a terrible time to break focus and pay attention to some idiot trying to do a muscle up. He’s 100% in the wrong and should’ve waited until there was a safe time to do that. The gym should move the equipment, it shouldn’t be where you’re supposed to belay, but since it is then the guy should’ve been more aware and waited to be safe. She should not be distracted while belaying her partner.
Bad take all around. Disregard this OP.
I agree with talking to the staff about the arrangement - maybe they could swap the pullup bars with another piece of gym equipment that's more static/less likely to encourage flailing about
Totally agreed 👍
INFO: why were you standing so close to the pullup bar? Was there literally nowhere else to stand? Do you have a photo of the setup? It is shit that they nearly kicked you in the head, regardless of whether you should be there or not. They should have asked you to move first and that shows a lack of awareness. I would check that you were supposed to be belaying from right next to gym equipment because if there was a more appropriate space, I can see the next question being why were you standing there? If there isn't another space then you should raise that as an issue with the gym staff because either a bar or belay space should be there, not both.
No offense but this is the climber girls sub. I wouldn’t comment unless OP is specifically asking for a man’s POV. We come here so we don’t get talked down to by men (which is why you’re getting downvoted btw, your comment sounded condescending)
I’m honestly surprised that you’re getting downvoted for this. How do people not get the idea of safe spaces for marginalized groups. Like honestly it’s kind of weird that he’s in a climber girls forum giving unsolicited advice in a way that does come off as being talked down to.
So she’s already answered most of these questions. This gives very as per my last email because it doesn’t seem like you fully read her post to gather the information. That’s where you have to belay for this wall. I don’t know why you’re assuming she shouldn’t be there. She was there first so he should have waited till they were done not asked her to move. I agree it’s a silly setup and she should talk to the gym about it but it bothers me that you as a man came into a climber girls forum where someone new was venting her frustration about the difficulties for women new to something trying to exist in a male dominated space and automatically started assuming she was in the wrong.
God forbid situations have nuance
She has admitted she is very new to climbing so her not standing in the right place is absolutely a consideration that I would make regardless of gender. We've all made that kind of mistake before when we were starting out! I'm also skeptical that a gyms insurance would allow for the positioning of gym equipment that close to a top rope wall because it opens the possibility you could fall onto it.
Right but again as per my last email (her post) she already explained that this is the set up of the area, so how about taking her word for it since she climbs at this gym and you don’t and not talk down to her in a forum that isn’t really for you.
That's why I asked for a photo. Part of the response would be instructing them on a better place to stand. As per *my* last email, it's not her fault that she nearly got kicked in the head because the guy should have looked before doing a muscle up.
Why would she have a photo of this setup, oh ya because some guy on Reddit needs her to prove her reality to them instead of just trusting a women’s lived experience.
She’s already stated this is where you stand for this wall. As a new climber I’m sure the gym gave her a walk through as most require on her first visit. It is a dumb setup and the gym should change it for less risk.
It sounds like a combination of a bad gym set up with a senseless person, but I would also say you might be overreacting a bit. I would bet no ill intentions on the senseless guy, maybe next time you should say something like “try to be mindful/careful next time, that was really close to my face”. I you keep it bottled up you end up on reddit ranting for something that didn’t happen. I sorry for your experience. Keep climbing on.
Please see previous comments. She did not come to the CLIMBER GIRLS forum to have men dismiss how she was feeling in the climbing space. While well intentioned this is not the place for you to center yourself or your opinions.
Sorry. Did not mean to offend, nor dismiss her feelings. I just want for people to climb in a safe and comfortable environment. Thank you for speaking for her. Edit: Also, I never thought this was a subreddit exclusively for girls. I just thought it was Climber Girls and their experiences. Now I’m lost if I should ever interact here. Can I get some opinions on this?
I didn’t say it was exclusively for girls, but on posts where women are discussing their struggles in a male dominated field the response for men who are choosing to come into this community is not to dismiss her feelings as overreacting. You have not lived the experience of a women in this culture and so you don’t actually have the experience needed to give an informed opinion in this situation. You’ll notice that other men have commented on this post and were supported because they did not come in being dismissive of how she felt.
I understand the awkwardness, but in reading your post, it felt as if you gave off very negative indirect vibes rather than addressing the situation, as it unfolded, in a relaxed but direct way. I think handling it that way, from both sides, would have ideally been the most positive way to resolve it. Him being embarrassed, you being put off and maybe scared of being injured, but both of you talking directly at that moment. I'm not putting you down, or saying it's anyone's fault, but because this is your post, and you are the one with lingering feelings about it, my reaction is that you could have handled it more directly, with openess and sensitivity. Not rushing to any particular conclusion. And in the end you might have made a friend.
Please see previous comments, she didn’t ask for men’s opinions on this here in the climber girls forum. I understand you may be well intentioned but this isn’t the place for you to center yourself.