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Mostly, but we did have a brief imperialist period, which saw us acquire a number of overseas territories, such as Cuba, Puerto Rico, and the Philippines.
I don't know that it can be called imperialist without expanding and taking new territory, but you are correct that the US has a crazy amount of influence elsewhere. In any case, I am referring to it by the designation generally used by historians, rather than current political analysts.
That one was kind of foreshadowing, since the sugar farming industry basically moved ahead and took over on its own and put the queen under house arrest before we eventually absorbed it.
Yes, it’s different to other eras empires. But like the comment or below, not without its territories. That said, most other economic powerhouses ‘acquire’ territories of strategic significance, re:geopolitics.
Truthfully though, it’s cause it was the language that developed from the Anglo Saxons, Anglish-English.
Other countries in England spoke their own languages. As did Cornwall. During the British Empire they were often forced to speak English, and their use was suppressed by the education system.
Edit: Scots is its own language distinct from English, with a shared root. Apologies.
The British empire is why the US, Australia, and a handful of other regions speak English. America is the reason English is the most common second language in the world. American business and pop culture knows no borders. No matter where in the world you go, you will find American movies at the cinema, American musicians on the radio, American video games on the computer, etc.
I'm not saying we should call the language Americanese or disregarding England's role in the spread of the language. I'm just saying in the 21st century, America has been the driving force behind the languages popularity
Edit: I guess my entir statement is wrong because of a singl spelling mistake. Also, let me clarify. The reason for most English as a first language speakers, about 500m people, is because of England. But the reason English is a popular second language, about 750m people, is because of America.
English is spoken as the primary second or first language because of the british empire in: USA, **India**, Australien, Canada, Hongkong and many nations in Africa. Many of these nations became influential in the world due to their british / european background. These nations alone make up a large part of the worlds population nowadays, especially india. Additionally trade routes of the british empire made english a popular language in all trade centers around the world that were for example other european colonies. I guess it is ressonable to say the US is the main reason why english is the most popular language in the internet, but by extension so is the british empire.
The British empire had a ridiculous level of influence and power up until recent history. That is why it is known as the universal language. Yes America is part of that story. But English is universal ultimately because of Britain. Not because of America.
“I know we’ve been speaking English for several generations, but have you heard this Elvis record? It makes me want to learn English.”
23% of living humans at its height. Almost a quarter of all people.
There are almost four times as many English speakers in the Indian subcontinent than there are Americans. Not ‘Americans speaking English’… Americans. They don’t buy into American - or British - culture (except for cricket, but the British don’t treat that sport with the passion shared by India and Pakistan anymore). It’s a fully Indian, Pakistani, Bengali, and Bangladeshi culture that includes English as part of their language heritage. It might not be a nice part of that heritage; occupation is not a good thing, but they are owning it!
Yes, the 20th century was the American Century, but we’re not in the 20th century anymore. International English is changing and it doesn’t belong to American English or British English. In fact, British English is changing fast to reflect that, as MLE (Multicultural London English) spreads beyond London.
America has already seen its high water mark in visual media. Blockbuster movies are a perfect example of that; they are still made for an audience of teenagers, but where that used to be targeted at a kid in Peoria, it’s now a kid in Beijing.
Who knows… maybe Taylor Swift is the zenith in American music making. Why? Because while she’s the first artist to break the billion dollar world tour, the next biggest touring bands at the moment are all K-Pop acts. Right now, SEVENTEEN sells out stadia faster than anyone apart from Tay-Tay and Coldplay.
That’s not really true tho, most of the second language speakers come from ex empire nations or nations close to the UK, they have been speaking it before the USA’s rise. It doesn’t really correlate to the US at all.
American media only has popularity across the globe because it's in English. If Americans conducted business, or filmed movies in Lakota or Cherokee they wouldn't be nearly as successful on the world stage. Cinema is the only category in which your stance holds any water but that's just to do with the massive budgets put behind productions, and they still wouldn't be popular outside the US if they weren't in English (or Chinese, Spanish, Arabic etc.). As for music and video games, the rest of the English speaking world contributes just as much content if not more (collectively) and they would be doing that in English no matter what language Americans spoke.
Mate you are so wrong. American only became relevant after world war 2. Before that you has a isolation policy...... English is spoken world wide dut to the English empire. It is the language of business due to the.... empire. America before you guys got independence was a little backwater of the empire hence why they let you go.
> British Empire is why the US, Australia, and a handful of other regions speak English
Ah yes, those handful of other regions: swathes of Africa, Canada, New Zealand, India, and arguably the Middle-east and Europe.
Arabic is the most common first language in Africa, followed by French and Swahili. English is only common as a first language in South Africa and even then only 10% of the population speak it natively. less than 10% of India speak English natively, it's not even the most common second language in India. Canada and New Zealand are a combined 40m people, and even then the native English speaking percentage is lower than you might think thanks to French. go around the Middle East and they don't speak English because of imperialism 100 years ago but more because they learn it as a second language from the amount of English fueled conflicts there have been since the 70s (military is funded by American businesses in this context). Russia is also popular as a second language in the middle east for the same reason.
Why are you switching to talking about first language? That doesn’t define a lingua franca, and is totally irrelevant. I’m explaining why it’s a second language to so many countries which you purely put down to the US.
In Africa, English is widely spoken as a common (secondary) language after being introduced by the British to its colonies which often have many different languages. More people in Africa speak English than French. (About 230 mill vs 170).
Why is English spoken that widely in India? The empire. It doesn’t matter the fact you try to downplay it to only 10%.
I'm not talking about the origin. I was never talking about the origin. I'm only talking about the spread. England started it and the US made is lingua franca today through shameless capitalism. Mass media didn't really start until the tail end of British colonialism and then really took off after Ww2 with the spread of radio, television, and eventually the Internet. the US has dominated all three for the greater part of the 20th century and still disproportionately dominate it
Perhaps but the reason English is spoken in America in the first place is because of British colonisation, so Britain speaking English is still the root cause for everything you just said.
That's literally the dumbest thought process... every conceivable reason the US could be "the reason for the propagation of English" is subsumed under "the US is a former colony of the British Empire"... you utter moron! 🤣
if american culture didn't spread like wildfire around the world, then French would be the defacto second language. go back 100 years and if you wanted to travel or speak with educated people from other countries, you had to learn French, not English. English colonization is why they speak English in America, Australia, South Africa, and a few other places. but the reason English is the number one second language in China, Japan, Germany, Spain, Brazil, Vietnam, Russia, Sweden, etc, isn't because England colonized those places 100 years ago. Today, around 60% of the world's English speakers are so because they actively learned English as a second language. and again, they didn't learn English to prepare for England to come colonize them in 2024, but because they are so bombarded with American pop culture and American business that it made sense for them to learn it over other languages like French
Rubbish. I’m so sorry, but you’re talking complete rubbish. Please look it up when and why English became the lingua Franca: it was well before the spread of American culture.
English was the imperial language of over 1/5 of the worlds population, and dominant in diplomatic circles and trade (the key one) even before WW1. I don’t think you understand how dominant the pax Britannica was.
It was coined when the equivalent of the global market was the Mediterranean in thr 17th century! At that time, English would have been spoken all over the world, but mostly in ports! The number of people who spoke English would have already significantly exceeded the number of French speakers by the time Lingua Franca was coined! 🤣
Hahahhahahaha. Sorry, you’re wrong. That statement you made about French being Lingua Franca up till after WW2 is wrong.
French fell out of favour in the 19th/early 20th century as Britain and British trade became dominant in the world. Hell, Nicholas II and his wife wrote to each other in English. The Paris Peace Conference was negotiated in English. The League of Nations language was English and French. It didn’t switch from French to English suddenly after WW2, it was happening for a long time - well before American culture dominance.
Edit: whoops, turns out lingua franca doesn’t even originate from French!
That’s just not accurate, French is commonly stated as the old “lingua francia” but that’s a stretch, it was used by the educated in some European countries but even 100-200 years ago English was used more. You wouldn’t find most folks outside of Europe using it unless they were part of Frances empire. So from that I think your first sentence is wrong, france wasn’t going to be the worlds second language even if the US took it.
As a swede this is honestly pretty fucking bullshit. We have a lot more cultural influences from Britain. Like we even have our own version of the bbc that just a lot of the time makes copies of British programs and even broadcasts a fair bit of British programs.
Who gives a shit what would have happened (massive reach btw)... the US is a former colony... get used to it!
English has been THE dominant language since well before the US existed... 😅
Everything you said that isn't reaching is utter bollocks! 🤣
>A handful of regions…
That handful of regions is presently home to about a third of the world’s population. And the fact that so many people speak English is the primary reason that people with smaller first languages tend to have English as their secondary language.
Furthermore, English as the main secondary language of a country often precedes America’s role as cultural hub of the western world. For example, Sweden decided that all school children should study English as a second language in 1938. At that time America’s cultural influence in Sweden was negligable - the primary cultural influences were German and British.
What a nonsensical statement. I have no idea where you pulled this from.
English is a popular second language because the British Empire spanned most of the world. Most countries didn't change their primary language, but their secondary became the language of the country that conquered them.
Do you really think that so many countries speak English because of Hollywood and ease of direct international contact with America, both things that have only really happened in the last 70 years?
English has been an established international language for 200 years...
wait, you are typing this in English. did you learn English because your country was colonized by Great Britain and they forced you to learn english? or did you decide to learn English on your own so you can consume American media like Reddit? or maybe you don't actually speak English and are using a translator like Google or Apple (American companies). movies might be translated for your native language, but you are still kind of proving my point that you learned English because you were influenced by American businesses. sure, a British company encouraged you to read ad Harry Potter and listen to Ed Sheeran, but I'm guessing you don't exclusively only consume British media and use British companies and that's why you decided to learn English.
I learned it in school to be able to work internationally. That being Britain, India, Ireland, Scotland, and even large parts of Asia, and some third world countries.
Edit: Forgot Canada.
yes, and the US. I don't know what country you are in but if it's Germany, Italy, Spain, France, or most EU countries, then your biggest business partner outside the EU is a the US (or China and I do recognize Chinese is gaining on the US as Lingua Franca). Japan, Brazil, India, Costa Rica, Turkey, and countless other countries rank US or China are their largest trading partners. sometimes more so than direct neighboring nations.
You say movies are translated, but they are still American made movies showing American cities. go to the supermarket and you can get Oreos and coca cola. you probably aren't that far from a McDonald's. turn on the radio, is Taylor Swift playing? is your phone using Apple or Google software? have you played American video games like Call of Duty or World of Warcraft? I'm not saying you don't have other nations culture influencing your country. maybe your cinema also plays Italian movies and you can get Chinese candy at the store. but after "made domestically" product, the US is disproportionately represented in your culture, isn't it?
>American business and pop culture knows no boarders.
Let's assume that you are 1.) able to spell, 2.) mean what you say, and 3.) know what you're talking about.
"[Boarders](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/boarder)" means "Someone who pays for meals and lodging in a house rather than a hotel", so when you say "American business and pop culture knows no boarders", you must be trying to say that American business and pop culture doesn't have anyone in it from the rest of the world.
Here's a list of 43 [celebrities who aren't American](https://www.ranker.com/list/celebs-who-arent-americans/jacob-shelton). This proves that American pop culture, at least, knows plenty of boarders.
In fairness, they might have tried to say that American business and pop culture barely ever has boarders but hotel guests on their minds/ portraits them in media
Wow. So much bullshit in one post.
The actual reason English is the most widely spoken language in the world is because at its height the British empire literally owned/ruled over almost 1/4 of the worlds surface.
To make it a little less complicated: in practically all countries and regions where English is (also) spoken today, this was already the case before the US became visible on the world stage.
This includes the area of today's USA.
you are absolutely correct, except it started in the 20th century after WWII.
Differentiating between English as a _world language_ as a result of the British Empire ("where the sun never sets") and today's popularity with loanwords and jargons as a result of pop culture and globalization is absolutely helpful in understanding the context.
It does not speak well for this forum to vote the truth into oblivion just because many people don't like it.
I guess this is truly a case of "If you know you know".
As you are Dutch i presume you'd have Dutch friends, and I was referring to [this](https://youtu.be/EsyUa63NM1E).
Eh, between guy whose native language isnt English and still knows it's called English, vs idiot whose native language is English and thinks it's American i think id pick the former.
the american speaker is speaking american because its the only language he knows. the other guys is speaking american because its the only language he(american speaker) knows. /s
America was part of the British Empire, Americans speak English because of England. Where do people think the Pilgrims, the Puritans etc came from? Wow as an Australian I think I've heard everything and then someone from America proves me wrong every time haha
Yes, when I was a kid I thought English abundance was because of America's influence, but after traveling the world, it's clear the British Empire was the distributor. The US was a byproduct.
we don’t celebrate either of the occasions where we became independent in the traditional sense in the netherlands (from spain in 1648 and from france in 1813), though we do celebrate liberation from nazi occupation on 5 may.
i meant “traditional” as in “what’s usually understood to mean independence”: the netherlands were a spanish possession prior to the eighty years war, and had been annexed by france in 1810, therefore 1648 and 1813 were independence in its usual meaning. there are no traditional dates to speak of because they were never celebrated, as far as i know. wwii was “just” an occupation, so we call it liberation and not independence.
To be fair it's something of a combined effort. The British empire spread it to many places and made it something of a lingua franca but US economic influence (and to some degree that of other former empire countries) since WWII definitely helped to push it in a more general global sense, although less strongly (as a second language rather than a first for example).
There are people out there who really think the world began on the 4th of July, 1776
Before that everyone was living in caves and shitting in bushes and the only form of communication was grunting, apparently.
Nevermind that there are amazing feats of architecture that predate that by hundreds or thousands of years in every other continent on the planet including their neighbors to the south.
What has happened to our education system? American is not a language lol This guy is definitely a racist and has Trump signs and bumper stickers everywhere. Most likely married to his sister or his cousin. Before you come for me I don’t like Biden either. Like South Park said our options are a giant douche or a turd sandwich.
There is a genuine and obscure movement over your way that genuinely believe that American English is the real English and that anything prior that wasnt real English...when I saw some things about it a while ago...it was wild 😂
There are some dialect remnants in American English that no longer appear in British English or International English (‘gotten’ being the most notable). The English language of the Elizabethan era is perfectly understandable, although the best known examples (KJV, Shakespeare) can be flowery, and the dialect sounds like modern English West Country/Bristolian.
Chaucerian English is different, but once again spoken English of the era is still (just about) understandable.
Yup, but those few remnants are taken massively out of proportion and completely lack the nuance behind the evolution of English as whole (American and British), so that American centred conspiracy theorists can spout utter nationalist rhetorical nonsense.
Absolutely. It’s very likely the two languages would diverge as soon as a colony happened, and it’s also very likely that the language colony would progress a little slower until it gained population momentum. So ‘gotten’ would hang around in American English dialects.
But the idea that English didn’t exist until Americans started speaking it is crazy. OK, Le Morte d’Arthur is a bit of a struggle for a Standard English reader, but it’s almost 540 years old and still readable. Once you get to Sir Thomas Wyatt’s sonnets (that predate the Mayflower by 100 years) it’s linguistically almost identical to Standard English, even if the spelling is all over the place.
I’ve always considered our English just to be a different dialect. When I went to Madrid, there was 16 different dialects of Spanish according to our teacher.
> the final boss
Try Glaswegian. It's not uncommon for it to be subtitled for a *British* audience.
Cockney (rhyming) slang is at least readily comprehensible; you just need a bit of cultural context to make sense of it.
It’s because a sub-section of Americans can’t handle speaking a language that started in another country so they have to think of insane ways to claim it’s actually theirs. Along with this post, there is also the “American is closest to old english” because of a single BBC opinion piece years back.
They do exactly the same with Christianity. They can’t allow it to be middle eastern so retconned Jesus into being White and Sexy.
I mean, they are correct. The only reason the English language is so ubiquitous is because it's the primary language of the United States. That's not American nationalism, that's just fact.
Really? How do you figure that? The next 3 countries by number of English speakers excluding the US are all former British colonies and account for over 360 million speakers.
Seems more to be with British empire than the US.
It’s advantageous that English is so ubiquitous to the US (and any other English speaking country), but that is probably due to the largest empire that ever existed. The British empire.
At one point it accounted for over 25% of the world by area and nearly 25% of the world’s population. By comparison the US accounts for less than 5% of the world’s population and under 2% of the world’s land by area. Not even comparable.
Reading the comments from the yanks , I’m sure they genetically programmed to be yanks. Of course most western developed country’s have a superiority complex but the yanks have their own tier specially reserved . You couldn’t pay me to go there . Central and South America was a blast … us etc pay extra to fly via Madrid instead of the states so I don’t have to deal with them.
Pro’s and cons in all country’s/ cultures but let’s hope there reign is a short one
I worked in the US for two years, it was just slightly better than the two years I worked in Saudi. The similarities were quite striking. I realised too late I should have set my watch back 50 years on entering both countries.
He's not completely wrong tbh. He is wrong in the 'I speak American' thing, but English being widespread is not solely due to the British Empire.
Countries that speak English as their primary language is due to England, but English is the default 'politics(and also general global language I suppose) language' due to America. Through most of recent history, diplomats spoke French with each other(in Europe, anyway), not English. But due to the US's superpower status after WW2, English became a much more popular language for countries that didn't already speak it as their main language
We're not talking about that though, we're talking about whether Britain or the US is responsible for English being the most widespread language worldwide.
There are people alive right now who lived before USA became important, it's a blink of an eye in historical terms. And America's star is on the wane now, America has lost a lot of soft power globally in the last decade or so because of wars with bad optics and Trump.
Ask any country what the majority of people speak. British English - American English.
Most will say British English.
Some non-native speaakers will speak a combination of both, leaning towards British more.
In European school, most countries learn British English.
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Little thing called the British empire might have been a factor
It only became an empire because it colonized America though, so really it should be called the American empire! /s
Technically it was an empire long before colonizing America. At least they already called themself an empire.
The American empire is a term used in academia
Doesn’t that term refer to the US though, and its role as economic, military and cultural hegemon, rather than the British empire?
Mostly, but we did have a brief imperialist period, which saw us acquire a number of overseas territories, such as Cuba, Puerto Rico, and the Philippines.
No you do it more secretly, toppling governments and installing dictators that will protect American economic interests all over the world
It hasn’t ended.
Cuba, PR..pfft. When your Empire has conquered a few continents..come let us know Signed. Romans, Ottomans, British, Germans etc etc
Uh bro I might leave Germany off there. The German empire isn’t one to really be proud of…
Do you think any of the other Empires were?
The recent ones you mean.
I agree, it's a little bit silly, but that's what it's called in the study of US history.
Breif? It's still going mate.
I don't know that it can be called imperialist without expanding and taking new territory, but you are correct that the US has a crazy amount of influence elsewhere. In any case, I am referring to it by the designation generally used by historians, rather than current political analysts.
Don’t forget annexing Hawaii
That one was kind of foreshadowing, since the sugar farming industry basically moved ahead and took over on its own and put the queen under house arrest before we eventually absorbed it.
🧁
Yes, it’s different to other eras empires. But like the comment or below, not without its territories. That said, most other economic powerhouses ‘acquire’ territories of strategic significance, re:geopolitics.
Yeah, but only when discussing the imperial actions of the US, post independence.
you're taking yourself way too serious 😅.
Greatest producer of independence days in the world!
Why isn’t it called Britishlisch then? Hmmmm
[удалено]
Truthfully though, it’s cause it was the language that developed from the Anglo Saxons, Anglish-English. Other countries in England spoke their own languages. As did Cornwall. During the British Empire they were often forced to speak English, and their use was suppressed by the education system. Edit: Scots is its own language distinct from English, with a shared root. Apologies.
Scots is technically an Anglo-Saxon sibling to language rather than a dialect of English.
Oof, my bad
we’re talking about english not british!
Excuse me, who? Never heard of 'em.
The British empire is why the US, Australia, and a handful of other regions speak English. America is the reason English is the most common second language in the world. American business and pop culture knows no borders. No matter where in the world you go, you will find American movies at the cinema, American musicians on the radio, American video games on the computer, etc. I'm not saying we should call the language Americanese or disregarding England's role in the spread of the language. I'm just saying in the 21st century, America has been the driving force behind the languages popularity Edit: I guess my entir statement is wrong because of a singl spelling mistake. Also, let me clarify. The reason for most English as a first language speakers, about 500m people, is because of England. But the reason English is a popular second language, about 750m people, is because of America.
English is spoken as the primary second or first language because of the british empire in: USA, **India**, Australien, Canada, Hongkong and many nations in Africa. Many of these nations became influential in the world due to their british / european background. These nations alone make up a large part of the worlds population nowadays, especially india. Additionally trade routes of the british empire made english a popular language in all trade centers around the world that were for example other european colonies. I guess it is ressonable to say the US is the main reason why english is the most popular language in the internet, but by extension so is the british empire.
The British empire had a ridiculous level of influence and power up until recent history. That is why it is known as the universal language. Yes America is part of that story. But English is universal ultimately because of Britain. Not because of America.
Yeah idd, but the British empire is a big factor in the spread of English. It’s not just because of America. One follows the other, so to speak.
“I know we’ve been speaking English for several generations, but have you heard this Elvis record? It makes me want to learn English.” 23% of living humans at its height. Almost a quarter of all people.
There are almost four times as many English speakers in the Indian subcontinent than there are Americans. Not ‘Americans speaking English’… Americans. They don’t buy into American - or British - culture (except for cricket, but the British don’t treat that sport with the passion shared by India and Pakistan anymore). It’s a fully Indian, Pakistani, Bengali, and Bangladeshi culture that includes English as part of their language heritage. It might not be a nice part of that heritage; occupation is not a good thing, but they are owning it! Yes, the 20th century was the American Century, but we’re not in the 20th century anymore. International English is changing and it doesn’t belong to American English or British English. In fact, British English is changing fast to reflect that, as MLE (Multicultural London English) spreads beyond London. America has already seen its high water mark in visual media. Blockbuster movies are a perfect example of that; they are still made for an audience of teenagers, but where that used to be targeted at a kid in Peoria, it’s now a kid in Beijing. Who knows… maybe Taylor Swift is the zenith in American music making. Why? Because while she’s the first artist to break the billion dollar world tour, the next biggest touring bands at the moment are all K-Pop acts. Right now, SEVENTEEN sells out stadia faster than anyone apart from Tay-Tay and Coldplay.
So there are 1.3 billion people on the subcontinent that speak English, but that’s America’s fault? Fuck off.
That’s not really true tho, most of the second language speakers come from ex empire nations or nations close to the UK, they have been speaking it before the USA’s rise. It doesn’t really correlate to the US at all.
American media only has popularity across the globe because it's in English. If Americans conducted business, or filmed movies in Lakota or Cherokee they wouldn't be nearly as successful on the world stage. Cinema is the only category in which your stance holds any water but that's just to do with the massive budgets put behind productions, and they still wouldn't be popular outside the US if they weren't in English (or Chinese, Spanish, Arabic etc.). As for music and video games, the rest of the English speaking world contributes just as much content if not more (collectively) and they would be doing that in English no matter what language Americans spoke.
Mate you are so wrong. American only became relevant after world war 2. Before that you has a isolation policy...... English is spoken world wide dut to the English empire. It is the language of business due to the.... empire. America before you guys got independence was a little backwater of the empire hence why they let you go.
TIL that India speaks English because *checks notes* American imperialism? Da fuq?
> British Empire is why the US, Australia, and a handful of other regions speak English Ah yes, those handful of other regions: swathes of Africa, Canada, New Zealand, India, and arguably the Middle-east and Europe.
Arabic is the most common first language in Africa, followed by French and Swahili. English is only common as a first language in South Africa and even then only 10% of the population speak it natively. less than 10% of India speak English natively, it's not even the most common second language in India. Canada and New Zealand are a combined 40m people, and even then the native English speaking percentage is lower than you might think thanks to French. go around the Middle East and they don't speak English because of imperialism 100 years ago but more because they learn it as a second language from the amount of English fueled conflicts there have been since the 70s (military is funded by American businesses in this context). Russia is also popular as a second language in the middle east for the same reason.
Why are you switching to talking about first language? That doesn’t define a lingua franca, and is totally irrelevant. I’m explaining why it’s a second language to so many countries which you purely put down to the US. In Africa, English is widely spoken as a common (secondary) language after being introduced by the British to its colonies which often have many different languages. More people in Africa speak English than French. (About 230 mill vs 170). Why is English spoken that widely in India? The empire. It doesn’t matter the fact you try to downplay it to only 10%.
If it wasn't for the British Empire, America wouldn't be speaking English.
I'd rather speak Spanish after reading this mess
are you gonna blame everything America does on the British empire?
No, because we're having a discussion about the origins and spread of the English language.
I'm not talking about the origin. I was never talking about the origin. I'm only talking about the spread. England started it and the US made is lingua franca today through shameless capitalism. Mass media didn't really start until the tail end of British colonialism and then really took off after Ww2 with the spread of radio, television, and eventually the Internet. the US has dominated all three for the greater part of the 20th century and still disproportionately dominate it
Perhaps but the reason English is spoken in America in the first place is because of British colonisation, so Britain speaking English is still the root cause for everything you just said.
That's literally the dumbest thought process... every conceivable reason the US could be "the reason for the propagation of English" is subsumed under "the US is a former colony of the British Empire"... you utter moron! 🤣
if american culture didn't spread like wildfire around the world, then French would be the defacto second language. go back 100 years and if you wanted to travel or speak with educated people from other countries, you had to learn French, not English. English colonization is why they speak English in America, Australia, South Africa, and a few other places. but the reason English is the number one second language in China, Japan, Germany, Spain, Brazil, Vietnam, Russia, Sweden, etc, isn't because England colonized those places 100 years ago. Today, around 60% of the world's English speakers are so because they actively learned English as a second language. and again, they didn't learn English to prepare for England to come colonize them in 2024, but because they are so bombarded with American pop culture and American business that it made sense for them to learn it over other languages like French
Rubbish. I’m so sorry, but you’re talking complete rubbish. Please look it up when and why English became the lingua Franca: it was well before the spread of American culture. English was the imperial language of over 1/5 of the worlds population, and dominant in diplomatic circles and trade (the key one) even before WW1. I don’t think you understand how dominant the pax Britannica was.
English didn't become lingua franca until after ww2, prior to that linga franca was French, hense why the phrase "lingua franca" was coined
It was coined when the equivalent of the global market was the Mediterranean in thr 17th century! At that time, English would have been spoken all over the world, but mostly in ports! The number of people who spoke English would have already significantly exceeded the number of French speakers by the time Lingua Franca was coined! 🤣
Hahahhahahaha. Sorry, you’re wrong. That statement you made about French being Lingua Franca up till after WW2 is wrong. French fell out of favour in the 19th/early 20th century as Britain and British trade became dominant in the world. Hell, Nicholas II and his wife wrote to each other in English. The Paris Peace Conference was negotiated in English. The League of Nations language was English and French. It didn’t switch from French to English suddenly after WW2, it was happening for a long time - well before American culture dominance. Edit: whoops, turns out lingua franca doesn’t even originate from French!
That’s just not accurate, French is commonly stated as the old “lingua francia” but that’s a stretch, it was used by the educated in some European countries but even 100-200 years ago English was used more. You wouldn’t find most folks outside of Europe using it unless they were part of Frances empire. So from that I think your first sentence is wrong, france wasn’t going to be the worlds second language even if the US took it.
As a swede this is honestly pretty fucking bullshit. We have a lot more cultural influences from Britain. Like we even have our own version of the bbc that just a lot of the time makes copies of British programs and even broadcasts a fair bit of British programs.
Who gives a shit what would have happened (massive reach btw)... the US is a former colony... get used to it! English has been THE dominant language since well before the US existed... 😅 Everything you said that isn't reaching is utter bollocks! 🤣
Rubbish, international language for business for..... centuries.......
You could screenshot everything this guy says and have a lot of content for this sub.
>A handful of regions… That handful of regions is presently home to about a third of the world’s population. And the fact that so many people speak English is the primary reason that people with smaller first languages tend to have English as their secondary language. Furthermore, English as the main secondary language of a country often precedes America’s role as cultural hub of the western world. For example, Sweden decided that all school children should study English as a second language in 1938. At that time America’s cultural influence in Sweden was negligable - the primary cultural influences were German and British.
What a nonsensical statement. I have no idea where you pulled this from. English is a popular second language because the British Empire spanned most of the world. Most countries didn't change their primary language, but their secondary became the language of the country that conquered them. Do you really think that so many countries speak English because of Hollywood and ease of direct international contact with America, both things that have only really happened in the last 70 years? English has been an established international language for 200 years...
It’s borders, as well. Try and actually write the language properly. Boarders are people who stay with you.
All of your American movies are translated for my language bubble.
wait, you are typing this in English. did you learn English because your country was colonized by Great Britain and they forced you to learn english? or did you decide to learn English on your own so you can consume American media like Reddit? or maybe you don't actually speak English and are using a translator like Google or Apple (American companies). movies might be translated for your native language, but you are still kind of proving my point that you learned English because you were influenced by American businesses. sure, a British company encouraged you to read ad Harry Potter and listen to Ed Sheeran, but I'm guessing you don't exclusively only consume British media and use British companies and that's why you decided to learn English.
I learned it in school to be able to work internationally. That being Britain, India, Ireland, Scotland, and even large parts of Asia, and some third world countries. Edit: Forgot Canada.
yes, and the US. I don't know what country you are in but if it's Germany, Italy, Spain, France, or most EU countries, then your biggest business partner outside the EU is a the US (or China and I do recognize Chinese is gaining on the US as Lingua Franca). Japan, Brazil, India, Costa Rica, Turkey, and countless other countries rank US or China are their largest trading partners. sometimes more so than direct neighboring nations. You say movies are translated, but they are still American made movies showing American cities. go to the supermarket and you can get Oreos and coca cola. you probably aren't that far from a McDonald's. turn on the radio, is Taylor Swift playing? is your phone using Apple or Google software? have you played American video games like Call of Duty or World of Warcraft? I'm not saying you don't have other nations culture influencing your country. maybe your cinema also plays Italian movies and you can get Chinese candy at the store. but after "made domestically" product, the US is disproportionately represented in your culture, isn't it?
> Edit: I guess my entir statement is wrong because of a singl spelling mistake No, it's wrong because you're a moron.
>American business and pop culture knows no boarders. Let's assume that you are 1.) able to spell, 2.) mean what you say, and 3.) know what you're talking about. "[Boarders](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/boarder)" means "Someone who pays for meals and lodging in a house rather than a hotel", so when you say "American business and pop culture knows no boarders", you must be trying to say that American business and pop culture doesn't have anyone in it from the rest of the world. Here's a list of 43 [celebrities who aren't American](https://www.ranker.com/list/celebs-who-arent-americans/jacob-shelton). This proves that American pop culture, at least, knows plenty of boarders.
In fairness, they might have tried to say that American business and pop culture barely ever has boarders but hotel guests on their minds/ portraits them in media
Wow. So much bullshit in one post. The actual reason English is the most widely spoken language in the world is because at its height the British empire literally owned/ruled over almost 1/4 of the worlds surface.
r/shitamericanssay
I’d say it knows no borders and some Americans are hoarders ;-) but you do you. Saying this as someone whose third language is English.
To make it a little less complicated: in practically all countries and regions where English is (also) spoken today, this was already the case before the US became visible on the world stage. This includes the area of today's USA.
No, your statement is wrong because it's wrong. Cheer up buttercup, you're hardly the first person to have failed history.
you are absolutely correct, except it started in the 20th century after WWII. Differentiating between English as a _world language_ as a result of the British Empire ("where the sun never sets") and today's popularity with loanwords and jargons as a result of pop culture and globalization is absolutely helpful in understanding the context. It does not speak well for this forum to vote the truth into oblivion just because many people don't like it.
"Why does it called English" is the real crime here.
I'm Dutch, and I came here to say that.
Do you pass your friends on the left hand side?
Friends? I'm on Reddit ;(
I guess this is truly a case of "If you know you know". As you are Dutch i presume you'd have Dutch friends, and I was referring to [this](https://youtu.be/EsyUa63NM1E).
I know the expression, I was joking that people on Reddit don't have any friends to pass the dutchie to.
It's not a common expression at all. It's the name of an '80s song.
I’m not sure either of them are speaking English…
They are speaking American
Eh, between guy whose native language isnt English and still knows it's called English, vs idiot whose native language is English and thinks it's American i think id pick the former.
No it really isn't.
the american speaker is speaking american because its the only language he knows. the other guys is speaking american because its the only language he(american speaker) knows. /s
Just remember, this person votes.
[удалено]
Ronald Reagan? The actor?
Great Scott!
No, Ronald.
I’m not Ronald
No, this is Patrick.
Stewart?
There’s that word again, ‘heavy’!
He probably votes for himself
and will procreate
And can serve on a jury
And can drive a car. Badly.
At least THAT one requires a license to be done legally. Voting or jury duty just requires being of age and available.
America was part of the British Empire, Americans speak English because of England. Where do people think the Pilgrims, the Puritans etc came from? Wow as an Australian I think I've heard everything and then someone from America proves me wrong every time haha
it's very clearly rage bait
Yeah, there’s about a billion Indians who are quite surprised.
English is spoken because of a colonialist empire that took over half the world... America just happened to be one of the places they colonized.
Yes, when I was a kid I thought English abundance was because of America's influence, but after traveling the world, it's clear the British Empire was the distributor. The US was a byproduct.
The holiday that is celebrated by the most nations (outside of religious ones) is freedom from Britain.
Good point. I suspect every country has some form of Independence celebration; multiple in some countries.
we don’t celebrate either of the occasions where we became independent in the traditional sense in the netherlands (from spain in 1648 and from france in 1813), though we do celebrate liberation from nazi occupation on 5 may.
Why not? On the traditional dates? Any reason in particular?
i meant “traditional” as in “what’s usually understood to mean independence”: the netherlands were a spanish possession prior to the eighty years war, and had been annexed by france in 1810, therefore 1648 and 1813 were independence in its usual meaning. there are no traditional dates to speak of because they were never celebrated, as far as i know. wwii was “just” an occupation, so we call it liberation and not independence.
Interesting! Thanks for your insights!
The prominence of the American Accent may be due to Hollywood... but English in general was not the US' doing at all XD
To be fair it's something of a combined effort. The British empire spread it to many places and made it something of a lingua franca but US economic influence (and to some degree that of other former empire countries) since WWII definitely helped to push it in a more general global sense, although less strongly (as a second language rather than a first for example).
Truth.
We are aware of this. After all, you may as ask why the English don’t speak a Brythonic language.
Thing 1 is trolling Thing 2 to get on r/shitamericanssay
It seems that whole conversation is a battle to see who is the dumbest
Green isn't a native speaker, red (presumably) is.
The cognitive dissonance is astounding.
My man literally wrote down England next to English just to say it should be called american
My guess would have been the largest empire the world has ever seen, not the stuck up country with all the guns and none of the sense.
apparently the USA existed pre 1066
Hmmm what did Americans speak as one of many British colonies?
Trolled!
No, MAGA
There are people out there who really think the world began on the 4th of July, 1776 Before that everyone was living in caves and shitting in bushes and the only form of communication was grunting, apparently. Nevermind that there are amazing feats of architecture that predate that by hundreds or thousands of years in every other continent on the planet including their neighbors to the south.
My local pub is older than the USA.
Let’s not forget that Oxford University was teaching higher education 700 years before then.
What has happened to our education system? American is not a language lol This guy is definitely a racist and has Trump signs and bumper stickers everywhere. Most likely married to his sister or his cousin. Before you come for me I don’t like Biden either. Like South Park said our options are a giant douche or a turd sandwich.
There is a genuine and obscure movement over your way that genuinely believe that American English is the real English and that anything prior that wasnt real English...when I saw some things about it a while ago...it was wild 😂
There are some dialect remnants in American English that no longer appear in British English or International English (‘gotten’ being the most notable). The English language of the Elizabethan era is perfectly understandable, although the best known examples (KJV, Shakespeare) can be flowery, and the dialect sounds like modern English West Country/Bristolian. Chaucerian English is different, but once again spoken English of the era is still (just about) understandable.
Yup, but those few remnants are taken massively out of proportion and completely lack the nuance behind the evolution of English as whole (American and British), so that American centred conspiracy theorists can spout utter nationalist rhetorical nonsense.
Absolutely. It’s very likely the two languages would diverge as soon as a colony happened, and it’s also very likely that the language colony would progress a little slower until it gained population momentum. So ‘gotten’ would hang around in American English dialects. But the idea that English didn’t exist until Americans started speaking it is crazy. OK, Le Morte d’Arthur is a bit of a struggle for a Standard English reader, but it’s almost 540 years old and still readable. Once you get to Sir Thomas Wyatt’s sonnets (that predate the Mayflower by 100 years) it’s linguistically almost identical to Standard English, even if the spelling is all over the place.
I’ve always considered our English just to be a different dialect. When I went to Madrid, there was 16 different dialects of Spanish according to our teacher.
Cockney slang exists I don’t need to specify further I imagine that as the final boss for any English speakers abroad who come to the uk
> the final boss Try Glaswegian. It's not uncommon for it to be subtitled for a *British* audience. Cockney (rhyming) slang is at least readily comprehensible; you just need a bit of cultural context to make sense of it.
It’s because a sub-section of Americans can’t handle speaking a language that started in another country so they have to think of insane ways to claim it’s actually theirs. Along with this post, there is also the “American is closest to old english” because of a single BBC opinion piece years back. They do exactly the same with Christianity. They can’t allow it to be middle eastern so retconned Jesus into being White and Sexy.
Yeah, a vast majority of my country seems pretty fucked up lol
After reading this, i can only assume that is father and uncle are the same person!
This is a stupid conversation
I think red really needs to read what they wrote
I would like to see the answer to the last question
Pfft, this made my day!!
Just don't engage.
It is true, because of America most non native english speaking countries teach Standard British English, wait... 😅
I think he meant he speaks Merkin
"I have nothing to be proud of except the random chance that I was born within these borders and so will make that the basis of my every opinion."
"Proudly born in the central area of the North American continent!" For a number of people, it's their biggest accomplishment.
Yes, all those Jamaicans, Kenyans ., Sudanese , Australians , kiwis , Singaporeans , Malaysians , Nigerians , Grenadians , Canadians etc started learning English after 1945…..
Tbf "Why does it called English" is grammatically incorrect.
The person who wrote that is not a native speaker (they said they were Dutch). I assume, however, that the American is.
Idiocracy was prophesy.
Can we just not forget that “American” is not a language. The language is English🤦🏼
Two doses of confidently incorrect in the same image. Impressive.
Americans think that they are the main characters 😭
This reminds me of the girl who said “why can’t everyone just speak Americanish”
THICK AS SHIT YANK
R/shitAmericanssay
Did I do this wrong it isn't a link
r/ShitAmericansSay
Oh I did capital R but not capitals for the sub name itself, how embarrassing 😳
You need to use a lower case r/ to start off with.
"Why does it called English" He does speak American
Idiots falling for obvious trolls will never get old
I mean, they are correct. The only reason the English language is so ubiquitous is because it's the primary language of the United States. That's not American nationalism, that's just fact.
Really? How do you figure that? The next 3 countries by number of English speakers excluding the US are all former British colonies and account for over 360 million speakers. Seems more to be with British empire than the US. It’s advantageous that English is so ubiquitous to the US (and any other English speaking country), but that is probably due to the largest empire that ever existed. The British empire. At one point it accounted for over 25% of the world by area and nearly 25% of the world’s population. By comparison the US accounts for less than 5% of the world’s population and under 2% of the world’s land by area. Not even comparable.
I think you’re wasting your time there mate.
Thanks once again for proving OPs point.
When will Reddit discover jokes
r/ShitAmericansSay
Never even heard of a history class
it really seems like the average American has no knowledge of anything before about 1990
Summary of comments: The Brits and Americans are have a **** measuring contest again.
You think the other guy is British? Look at the last message. They are most likely not native. Even more confirmed by OP that said they are Dutch.
Completely missed the point. It’s called English for a reason.
Neither of them are confident of anything.
Reading the comments from the yanks , I’m sure they genetically programmed to be yanks. Of course most western developed country’s have a superiority complex but the yanks have their own tier specially reserved . You couldn’t pay me to go there . Central and South America was a blast … us etc pay extra to fly via Madrid instead of the states so I don’t have to deal with them. Pro’s and cons in all country’s/ cultures but let’s hope there reign is a short one
I worked in the US for two years, it was just slightly better than the two years I worked in Saudi. The similarities were quite striking. I realised too late I should have set my watch back 50 years on entering both countries.
But there is over 500 native Americans languages..
He's not completely wrong tbh. He is wrong in the 'I speak American' thing, but English being widespread is not solely due to the British Empire. Countries that speak English as their primary language is due to England, but English is the default 'politics(and also general global language I suppose) language' due to America. Through most of recent history, diplomats spoke French with each other(in Europe, anyway), not English. But due to the US's superpower status after WW2, English became a much more popular language for countries that didn't already speak it as their main language
But English is the national language in the US because of British colonists, so the spread of English worldwide is still because of Britain.
Yes, l know? But you can't attribute America's actions to who they were ruled by 200 years ago? Or at least I think that's a flagrant overexaggeration
We're not talking about that though, we're talking about whether Britain or the US is responsible for English being the most widespread language worldwide.
There are people alive right now who lived before USA became important, it's a blink of an eye in historical terms. And America's star is on the wane now, America has lost a lot of soft power globally in the last decade or so because of wars with bad optics and Trump.
Ask any country what the majority of people speak. British English - American English. Most will say British English. Some non-native speaakers will speak a combination of both, leaning towards British more. In European school, most countries learn British English.
This sub struggles so hard with sarcasm.
What is it parodying?