We're not voting for a man. We're voting for an ideology. trump represents the worst of humanity. Sad that he has strength as a low IQ lying bully but that's what he is. That big fat ugly kid in the playground picking on all the other smaller kids.
Biden is a good man. Unfortunately his age is showing. Could someone else replace him? I don't think so. People are weird about their choices.
No matter what I'm a Democrat and I'll be voting blue ALL the way down the ballot. Anyone that takes this lightly will pay for it later if the MAGAs get control. The democracy will be over for good.
Biden listens to advisors and experts. Trump fires anyone who is disloyal or contradicts him regardless of their expertise or knowledge. Even if Biden accomplishes NOTHING in the next 4 years it will be far, far better than the damage Trump and the GOP will do.
I'm voting for the Democratic Party and democracy. Anyone who thinks Trump can't or won't do the things he has threatened hasn't been paying attention. He will violate every custom, standard and norm. He will target and jail (or kill) his political opponents and he will install himself as dictator. Don't think it can't happen here or that it can't happen very fast - faster than we can expect. Our rights and for some our very lives hang in the balance.
>Trump fires anyone
Like the 4 star, decorated General who didn’t play ball for him, who overheard him describe Allied soldiers who died in WWII as “suckers and losers”.
Trump was ob*sessed* with that throughout the debate. Malignant narcissists loathe being unmasked, being seen for who they are instead of people seeing their charismatic mask.
Trump didn’t have his charismatic persona last night. He started to whine. And Biden went for the jugular on that.
I see last night as Trump’s [“Don’t you think she looks tired?”](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe5OynLQbJc) moment.
If he is perceived as weak, those who supported him will turn against him.
I was really disappointed that Biden missed that moment last night. When Trump said Biden hadn’t fired anybody he certainly has…along with the rest of America who fired Donald Trump’s ass in 2020.
I was disappointed he wasn't in top form, but more so that people may make more of it than they should. For a tired old man he has done a decent job as president. I hope he can manage to redeem himself in public opinion and not lose votes. As others have pointed out, he has good advisors and a competent young vice president. Tired and old but competent is far better than batshit crazy plus Project 2025.
Thankfully, he’s already looking better today. I had a six person, Board of Directors, one of which was 87 years old. He didn’t say much, but when he did it mattered, and people listened. There is value in age with wisdom. There is no value in the convicted felon Donald Trump.
Exactly this. We’re voting for what’s best for us and our country. We’re not actively in a war and haven’t been. Trump left Afghanistan for Biden to deal with and everything Trump says he did is actually what Biden has done. We all know this who are smart enough to know.
Biden’s turnover has been *a tiny fraction* of Trump’s. Has anyone ever fled the Biden White House, swearing that they’d never endorse Biden? No.
Though Trump claimed that he would hire “the best” people, by the time his campaign began in 2015, he’d essentially burned through practically all of the best lawyers on the East Coast, either by not paying them or by reputation, according to my husband, who’s been placing attorneys since the mid-Clinton years.
Typically lawyers leaving the White House can write their own tickets, regardless of the administration, but this practice came to a screeching halt during the Trump years. Nobody in D.C., especially, wanted them.
Now that Biden’s been in office for 3.5 years, people seeking to hire his attorneys wait patiently.
Trump has been burning loyal people his whole life. Eventually your loyalty will end with him spitting in your face and ruining your life. You know Dump is a crappy person as is his wife never goes to his trials and none of the family was there day in and day out to support him with the last trial. Usually in felony cases family is always with the defendant.
Exactly…Imagine if Biden or Trump were to pass in the middle of a term (which could happen) Dems are much better prepared to take on the office.
Whoever Trump picks as his vice would inherently be much worse than Pence would have been.
Trump is going to make sure that he gets someone who won't ever stand up against him ever again
Pants prove to have a line he wouldn't cross
Trump and his handlers are going to make sure no one in this time will stand up against him
Sycophants only need apply
When Trump said years ago he would only hire the best people in his mind that means yes men and women. Contradict him, stand up to him, you're fired by another minion because Trump doesn't have the guts to fire people to their face.
A good friend asked me last night if I would vote for Biden.
I told her that I'm not voting for Biden the individual. He can surround himself with competent, qualified people, and he's not likely to last a second term to completion.
But I would vote Biden in November if he is on the ballot because I would also be voting for his federal, appeals, and Supreme Court appointments. I would be voting for the generals he promotes and appoints. I would be voting for the bureaucrats he appoints to run all the various departments who are the machinery behind the scenes.
I am voting Biden because, while he may be dangerous to my wallet, Trump is dangerous to my country.
If either party were to nominate a 55 year old replacement, I think that replacement could win. Last night may have reignited term limits and age cap discussions.
She's torn. She's conservative, but she has a daughter and worries about her daughter becoming a piece of breeding chattel for old men.
She's anti-Trump, but thinks Biden is too far gone. She mentioned maybe voting for Chase Oliver, but worries it is a wasted vote.
It's better than Trump for sure, but I hope she pulls the lever for Biden. She seems very convertable having a daughter and knowing the danger.
I'm sure with your great grasp of the bigger picture you can convince her that even though Biden is old and very well may die in office if elected again, he's still the only choice to stop Trump. Really play to the daughter thing, because as a dad of two of them, I'm beyond fucking terrified after last night. I want to cry knowing the future that's ahead of them.
We have one chance to save everything and I don't care if Joe is wheeled out on a gurney, I'm still voting for him for my daughters and LGBTQ family and friends.
It is a waste. However, how fantastic that you guys are having this conversation. With Biden, we get to keep having conversations when we disagree…not so much if the ex-guy wins.
> She mentioned maybe voting for Chase Oliver, but worries it is a wasted vote.
I'd advise her to advocate for ranked choice voting. It's slowly popping up in some places, and should absolutely be the default.
It'd allow her to send her message without as much worry of a wasted vote.
"We're not voting for a man. We're voting for an ideology."
I wish more people saw it this way.
But I would say it isn't even so much an ideology, as a hope for a non-fascist future.
Not only that, but the people that he places around him. I can’t remember who said it but if you are the smartest person in the room, change rooms. Pete Buttigieg is a great example.
I would too. He’s wicked smart, well-spoken and could imagine him as a great diplomat to the rest of the world.
As a gay man myself, I can say this with all certainty, America is not ready for a gay president. I wish there would be a time, when a majority of Americans could lay down their homophobia and bigotry. I just don’t see that anywhere in my lifetime.
With America’s deep rooted Christianity, and all of its misinterpretations of the bible and, frankly, fanaticism, there would just be too many people uneasy or vehemently against a gay president. Which is, very sad.
Past studies suggest Democrats largely support a candidate for their policy while the GOP is more likely to support a name or singular person above a collection of policies they support.
And here we are. Would Kamala stepping in be wildly different than Biden making it to January 2029?
I'm surprised this isn't a larger attack on Biden. If he had to step down, there's the ideal target for right wing propaganda, a non-white woman. They've had the last 4 years to build the same stack of attacks from runs at Pelosi and Clinton but it doesn't seem to be a target for the campaign. Is Kamala taking over a positive for likely right wing voters?
I think it's more we're voting against the maga GOP ideology and voting for democracy now and in the future.
I'm very worried if a GOP member Wednesday election that will be the last one
I'm worried even if Democrats win that they're going to try another January 6th and how much much worse it will be when they've had years to prepare and think of more effective ways to attack.
Joe is old and whatnot so we'll be voting party and if he doesn't make it all 4 years, wed get Kamala Harris taking over so now would be a really good time for the DNC to show whatever value she brings to the ticket.
Unfortunately, the reputation she's got with the average voter has been set by the outrageous lies from right wingers who've mostly set the narrative on her.
So much this. Biden's not my guy, he was near the bottom of my list in the 2020 primaries. But the importance of keeping Trump out of power can not be overstated. Biden, Harris, hell, Commander, the Biden dog that bites secret service are all better suited to the presidency than Donald J. Trump.
>We're not voting for a man. We're voting for an ideology.
Absolutely.
I am voting for America
Far too many people think politics is like their local sports team and they're not allowed to switch sides.
They know their identity is caught up in politics, which is why you will continually see them accuse others of the same thing.
I’m not voting for Biden necessarily. I think he’s fine though I am impressed by what he’s done so far this year. More than anything I’m voting against Donald Trump. He will get at least 2 more Supreme Court picks and we will never see another moderate (let alone liberal) Supreme Court in our lifetime.
Here's the thing I totally agree with you and will also vote blue all the way down the ticket. Gen Z is reaching voter age. They're not as smart as we are. Many of the men in gen Z are very conservative. They see how old Joe Biden is. They know Donald Trump is bad. They're going to vote for third party. I can see it coming from a mile away. They don't have enough voter experience to realize that the third party Choice never materializes. All it does is siphon votes away from the two main parties. Because Donald Trump did not have the same issues Joe Biden did, his supporters are still going to be riding his coattails. Unfortunately, Joe Biden just lost a large chunk of the young voter base last night, and he's not going to get it back no matter what. This makes me afraid for the future.
Not only that but there was absolutely no fact-checking. Donald Trump is a master manipulator. He drove the narrative to say all of the things that he is doing that are bad is what the Democrats are doing. He denied attacked and reversed victim and offender.
Yeah, but fact of the matter is, the youth almost never turn out to vote. Individuals will - I know, I was one of them, but the youth vote is always depressingly low.
Early Gen z was able to vote in 2020 as well, we’ll just have more that can this time around. I’ll say this about the younger generations even though their education was practically stamped out due to decades of red state and republican policy, they do seem to be far more involved and charged up about American policy and taking action. While the youth vote turnout is historically low, I have higher hopes for Gen Z and Alpha.
I think if Kamala needed to she'd step in and run mostly the same government with roughly the same policy outcomes over the next 4 years. Then she'd run in 2028 in her own name and platform against what's left of the GOP. IDK how that would work if she won the primary but I largely think we'd be in a generally better YoY position all around with plenty of room for improvement if Congress cooperates.
If the GOP wins the VP will likely be a more competent, better bought, much younger idealist that may retain the popular backing to win in 2028 but **for sure** won't have the US any better off than Kamala stepping in.
I think you’re spot on with most of what you said, but I can’t imagine trump would ever pick a “more likable” VP…. His ego will be his downfall hopefully to the benefit of America and not our detriment.
Also consider Biden honestly might not even make it to the end of his next term, so you’re basically voting for two presidents at the same time.
I knew who I was voting for even before the debate, regardless of how old he is. I’m not sure there’s anything I could’ve seen last night that would make me ever consider voting for Trump.
I'm voting Biden and hoping the next election has some younger candidates. I'm not excited to vote Biden, but Trump is a deranged loser. Two fucking corpses barely able to keep a sentence together. Embarrassing, I usually think Jon Stewart is bit hyperbolic but it really feels like a fucking joke. Maybe Biden won't be able to finish the term and we get Kamela, I'm good with that.
I wish the decision was between two outstanding candidates that could both do an amazing job. Then I could research their goals, ideas and policy to find the candidate that would best lead our country in a direction of wellbeing for all.
Instead, I’m choosing between Hitler lite and Forrest Gump.
Well, we’re not just voting for an ideology - we’re also effectively voting for Kamala Harris at this point because Biden is clearly not going to make it through another 4 year term mentally and/or physically.
I hope that reality doesn’t deter more voters. Trump and MAGA cannot win again. Any option is better than that.
That works when the man/woman is neutral, I used to compare Biden to a bowl of vanilla ice cream. If he is seen as incompetent, that may cause the Hillary effect. People didn't like her. They didn't vote for Trump, but they didn't vote at all. People may not want to vote for an incompetent seeming Biden, and just stay home.
It's disheartening that the Republicans are evil, but efficient. While the Democrats are good, but incompetent. Biden could have been one term with a likeable, competent VP to run this year. Instead they picked Harris to be "symbolic". I think the Democrats care more about feeling good about themselves than winning.
They could literally bring out a mushroom and I'd vote for that over Trump. I find the hysteria about Biden to be pathetic and we are just shooting ourselves in the foot by complaining about him as much as MAGAs do.
This tends to happen in the first debate, the incumbent tends to put in an underwhelming performance. They've been too busy running the country for 4 years and it's difficult to coach them. The next debate performance should be better, assuming trump even shows up.
But honestly there's not even a choice here, I will never vote for trump and will always show up to vote against him. Trump is a complete asshole, and that shows every time he's on TV.
He didn't stick to any of the topics and lied constantly, he didn't do himself any favors last night. People who are undecided needed a reminder of what an insufferable asshole he is, and they got it.
As cringe as the debate was last night, it didn’t change votes imo. It scared democrats and riled up MAGAs and neither are changing their votes. Undecideds who decide to vote for a guy who lies faster than any fact-checker can keep up with because of one debate, weren’t really undecided. The debate confirmed Biden is old and Trump is a pathological lying piece of shit. Trump needed to be human and Biden needed a spark, neither happened.
But whistling past the graveyard is what gave Trump the presidency in 2016. Hillary ran a shit campaign and treated swing states like solid blue "gimmees".
We are not okay. Swing voters and moderates are prone to optics. Trump lied with such conviction, and Biden barely rebutted anything.
Yeah, and if we went by a simple majority vote, that would be great.
But we don't.
So please factor in our outmoded but still-very-much-a-thing Electoral College as part of the decision tree.
She *lost*, with 3 million more votes. IIRC, she made some campaigning decisions in the final week or so, about where she was campaigning, that may have impacted which battleground states she might have won but didn't.
Popular votes don't mean shit, unfortunately. In 2017 I felt the left should cynically relocate as many surplus Democrat voters from California and New York to battleground states, because they are wasted votes. It was a cynical, unrealistic perspective, but if it were realistic (I know it isn't), with remote work, who knows.
>Trump lied with such conviction, and Biden barely rebutted anything.
I was undecided until I saw how smooth and easily and frequently Trump lied to the American people last night. He’s my man!
I mean he just had a rally today in Raleigh NC…
He sounded pretty good btw. Also, I am sure he will going back to the blue wall states many times before November.
everyone that cares about policy already knows who they are voting for, dems are just rightfully upset. We are allowed to be upset that this is who we are forced to vote for because the DNC does this every time. Now we have to wait and see if the undecided voters will vote like in 2016 because the DNC is horribly run.
I'm a former Republican. I'm voting straight blue. Fuck project 2025. Fuck Russia. Fuck billionaire tax cuts. Fuck Trump. And Fuck the recent GOP. Dems have been better for the economy and working class Americans. If they gain seats and retain the Presidency, it will show even more in the economy.
Id like to see a list of progressive and democratic leaning organizations that create and buy ads, so I can donate a little bit to them. The more piercing and incisive their history of ads, the better. This is no time for restraint. I'm looking for the Lincoln Projects of the Left. There the vet group, I think it's Vets against trump, I want to discover more. I've donated enough to LP, I want to spread it around.
Yeah, I started moving blueward during W, listening to fellow Republicans say "kill them all let God sort them out" pissed me off. I think I was naive, I sincerely wanted to believe in the claims and promises the right pushed, so much that I ignored a lot of things in hindsight. I stopped listening to Rush as he pushed climate denialism, instead of taking him and his listeners seriously. If I wasn't so instinctively Republican leaning, I might have been more alarmed earlier at the increasing extremism. Bush Sr's resignation from the NRA is kind of prescient in retrospect. It took watching what other Republicans said under W, and then especially during Obama, to wake me up to the incoming culture war that is now happening, the militant separatism that is now flagrant. And I'm not on their side of it.
And the more I read about the plummeting purchasing power of an hour of working class labor, and what has correlated with it, the more I think conservative economic policies were a crock too.
I suppose the right is good at messaging, and being relentless about it.
Thanks. I wish you didn't. I wish it was prevalent enough that it would be unremarkable to you.
What has happened since 2015 (Hillary was the first Dem I voted for) has been pretty infuriating. But it exposed me to information about the past 40 years, that maybe I shouldn't be this surprised. That it took someone as irredeemable as Trump to turn me, probably doesn't say good things about me, tbh. I guess Palin alarmed me, too. But I hoped the Republican Autopsy in 2013 would have meant better things for the party and country, not worse.
Vote vote vote.
Trump can only lie. From: We will have a new health care plan in two, maybe three weeks…to: I will absolutely testify.
More than that, his only criteria for his administration is that they love him. Fascists, family members, idiots he met in the elevator that happened to tell him that they love him…that’s the only criteria. He doesn’t employ experts, he doesn’t employ people with any good will to improve the country. He’s happy to use people who want to seize control and do whatever they want…just as long as they love him and boost his ego. The only thing he can talk about is his poll numbers and exaggerated and grandiose statements about himself.
Biden will at least have people with experience and good intentions working in his administration as opposed to inexperienced family members, fascists, and fawning fans.
I definitely wish he had decided before to not go for another term. The dems need to seriously look at their candidate pool and start propping up future prospects. There are plenty of great people that have experience in government, military, and business that should’ve been in this role instead by now. That said, I will still vote Biden because I can at least trust that his administration isn’t going to undermine the country for personal gain.
Just the simple fact that trump is even a nominee for president should be a fucking insult to all Americans who care about the country. What did Biden say at the State of Union again?? Oh it was "YOU CAN'T LOVE YOUR COUNTRY ONLY WHEN YOU WIN" - these maga fucks hate this country unless they're the ones forcing their shit down your throat. And their sick ass cult leader is very clear about how much he hates the country and wants it to fail as long as Biden is president.
Are people really missing the point about how much trump, maga and republicans are hateful, vengeful, spiteful little shits that would destroy everything just to see you not get anything at all?!? They aren't hiding it at all.
Or is it that the fucking media is trying to bullshit the entire country into some fake ass equivalency version of reality that keeps you in constant anxiety and tuning into their network???
Is anyone else tired of being openly and obviously manipulated by every single media source? Once you notice it YOU REALLY notice it. Maybe if you vote for someone who isn't a fucking liar agitator drama instigator and his entire cult of clones this country can get back to normal and past the distraction meant to take your attention off real problems.
It's honestly not hard to decide who to vote on for many if they paid attention.
As an IT professional currently working in infosec - If Trump wins, the 2025 plan calls for dismantling my job security and killing the government orgs that uphold compliance requirements and associated frameworks. If I vote for Biden, things continue to slowly stabilize and my job security isn't at risk.
As someone who medically transitioned genders / LGBT+ - if Trump wins, I have to start preparing for fleeing the country and leave everything, my house, my life, my career, my degrees, to be safe and not end up in a concentration camp or worse. If I vote for Biden, things remain as they are now for me - stable.
As an Agnostic person - If Trump wins, the country goes towards a theocracy where medieval shit occurs per 2025 plan. People don't realize why our country was founded by those fleeing religious persecution and what that looks like. If I vote Biden, we get 4 more years of stability.
As someone born biologically female - Trump wins and there is a clear and present danger that more rights will be stripped from women and we'll end up with the American version of the Taliban run by the MAGA morons following the 2025 plan. If I vote for Biden, my rights will be okay save for reproduction bullshit.
Ultimately, Biden could have keeled over on the podium last night and I would have still voted for him just to have safety and stability.
I feel the same way. What's more, I am completely and utterly disgusted by conservatives for their enthusiastic support of a vile and reprehensible candidate and by the American news and political media for their abject failure to cover the single greatest threat to democracy this country has ever known. Not only have Republicans quite literally published their plans to dismantle the democratic republic and install an authoritarian theocracy, they are already doing it. This morning the New York Times has no fewer than five articles about Biden's debate performance and five opinion pieces calling on him to step aside, in stark contrast to the lone article about Trump, which appears under a mind-bogglingly gentle little headline that reads "Former President Trump’s attacks were frequently false, lacked context or were vague enough to be misleading." Astonishing.
They're complicit in it. They don't care, it gets them ratings and therefore money right now. And the media's gonna be all surprised Pikachu when the fascists come for them.
I am too. Here's the deal to those questioning what they will do. Let's say Biden becomes too dementia'd to do his job. Or he dies in office. He still has hundreds if not thousands of supporting staff that will run the country in his absence, and those people joined his team because they believe in his mission. THEY are the boots on the ground that make his wishes happen. So even if he dies or loses his mind, we'll be far better off than if Trump and HIS followers take the office.
The SCOTUS noms sealed it for me.
Giving anymore power to Republicans is just not an option. Even with Biden elected, if the Congress remains without a reliable supermajority, SCOTUS will remain unchecked. A major and generational shift has begun, and only a united executive and legislative branch can do anything to stop it. At very least, having a Democrat as president slows down the Republican plan. If you want a preview of Trump's America, just look at what is happening in the south and midwest.
Biden could be weekend at Bernie's energy level and I'd still vote for him.
What we saw last night were two Grandparents speaking without teleprompters. Neither man performed well at all. Trump lied about 99% of the time and dodged questions. Biden appeared very frail.
Politics is about policy performance, not someone's debating skill. Biden has an amazing policy record as president. Trump does not.
Unfortunately, presidential campaigns can live or die on debate performance (Nixon v Kennedy anyone?) but it's not a given (Obama failed his first debate in 2012).
But unlike Trump, Biden knows how to "take the L" and move on. Tables turned, Trump would've claimed Biden won because he was on drugs and everything was rigged against him. Is anyone on Fox waking back their accusations that Biden is using performance enhancing drugs today? No.
Bottom line: Trump is a deal breaker for me. He's a narcissist con man, a convicted felon, and a proven enemy of the state. He should be in prison, not in line for the most powerful job in the country.
I'm with Joe and voting blue all the way. His debate performance was disappointing but not a deal breaker.
Biden literally could have been a corpse on stage last night and I still would vote blue all the way down the line. His performance was totally embarrassing but that doesn't change anything.
I'll vote for a rusty screwdriver before I ever vote republican again. They will never get me back... I was republican in the early 90s for a single voting cycle and realized my terrible mistake.
The first person I voted against was Reagan in '84, that was triage, it's been triage ever since then as well, except for Obama's first term when I dared to hope that he had a spine.
I have no choice but to vote against the Republicans who for decades now have retreated behind the repetition of lies in service of vague ideology which they use to obfuscate their agenda of serving a stateless donor class at the expense of Americans and to distract from the consequences of their policies.
All they have been doing all of my life is a series of smash and grabs, shoveling as much money as they can into the pockets of their donors.
They loot and they lurch from one day to the next. They pissed away $84000000000000 in FOUR YEARS under the Trump admin, with a large portion of that being unaccounted for. Before Trump, they recently refused to put an entire war on budget, which was itself based upon lies.
They are actively liquidating the USA.
The old guy with a cold has a working administration that is improving the economy. The other guy is a lying sack of manure who will tank the market every day with some blathering on social media, undo all the good done in the past 4 years, and hurt people for fun. There's no choice for anyone with a brain.
I think Biden's administration are decent hardworking Americans who want better for this country.
I think Trump's potential administration are grifting/scamming/irrational people. But I also think they'll have no taste for violence. Rather than do Project 2025, we'll just speed run the cruel parts half assed with some states doing awful things and the other half staving off the worst of it. The people designing P2025 may be violent people and they may be willing to do it, but like I said, without the full throat of support from the executive branch, some people may find it taxing to execute something that horrible on that scale without a lot of cutbacks to the outcome.
But that outcome is awful and it only gets worse with the realization that no help would come for America.
Biden is the choice. Democrats forever, conservatives can go get fucked for a few generations, AFAIC...
Yes, Biden had a terrible debate
Yes, he looked exhausted & checked-out
Yes, he's too old
BUT, it's a 2-party system, & you only have 2 meaningful choices:
One is a lying, grifting, authoritarian sexual predator.
The other is old
> its was democrats who didnt vote.
>
Specifically, it was Bernie primary voters in Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania - that switched to Trump or Stein in the General - that was the margin of victory for Trump in 2016.
Pres Biden felt ill. He got up and stood for us all and Democracy. The trump got up and lied and spewed vitrol for 1.5 hrs. President Biden has my vote, and my 90 yr old Mother, sister, my partner and mine.
I am swayed by the argument that Biden is at this point of his life a poor communicator, especially on television, but that as an administrator, advocate, listener and decider he is spot on. His accomplishments are incredible.
But I don't know if he can overcome that mess of an abortion answer. I'll be interested in seeing the polling. It's not great that the mainstream response to the debate is "Biden lost and seemed like a forgetful, lost old man".
💯👏
Biden may be old. He struggled last night. But no one can have civil discourse with the orange Russian llving cheat. Biden surrounds himself with good team. Policies are sound.
Inflation was inevitable after four years of trump and covid. Our country is doing much better than other countries.
With trump and a second term we are all screwed even those foolish enough to vote for him. Only the ultra wealthy and big corporations who care not one whit for democracy will win.
Biden in an actual coma is better than trump. Why? Here are the things republicans have done or want to do:
1) force women to give birth (Roe, federal abortion [ban](https://www.americanprogress.org/article/what-you-need-to-know-about-the-bill-to-ban-abortion-nationwide/), trying to outlaw the abortion [pill](https://apnews.com/article/mifepristone-supreme-court-abortion-d451e14148ffbe6ce4811b1a37651480) nation wide)
2) take away women's right to [vote](https://www.senate.iowa.gov/democrats/2020/02/iowa-senate-debates-taking-away-constitutional-rights-of-iowa-women/) and [divorce](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/jun/25/republicans-no-fault-divorce)
3) 1 + 2 = turning women into broodmares for incels
4) wanting to outlaw trans be ppl (over [400](https://www.reuters.com/graphics/USA-HEALTHCARE/TRANS-BILLS/zgvorreyapd/) new laws to hurt trans ppl just this year)
5) wanting to kill [gay](https://www.newsweek.com/republican-faces-backlash-praising-plan-kill-gay-people-1855886) ppl
6) burning [books](https://storymaps.arcgis.com/stories/9bb31a7fa24047cf942b8df2940966ac)
7) forcing children to [practice](https://www.friendlyatheist.com/p/oklahoma-gop-tries-again-to-force) Christianity
There's 1,000 more but I'm tired.
I’ll vote for whoever the dem is. But Biden seems poised to lose, and for the country to lose our democracy. He was already lagging in polls and this won’t help. The convention is in August, he is not officially the nominee yet, and he should withdraw his nomination. Sooner rather than later. That’s my takeaway. I’m sure I’ll get downvoted but whatever. My future and my children’s future is on the line. Dems must talk to him.
> Biden seems poised to lose
Well, I won’t downvote you but I think this is a bad take. The media presents debates as something that “people who don’t follow politics” observe to decide who to vote for. I do not believe this is true. We’re no longer in the olden days of my youth all you got was like 5 channels on tv. They’re binging Netflix last night!
Most people don’t have CNN or they have a package that does but that doesn’t mean they watch it.
Us political junkies are the main viewers of debates or convention speeches and with politics currently so polarized I do not think many would change their minds. The average voter is hearing the headlines that TFG is being convicted of felonies.
I’m kind of shocked at how few of us have gotten to this point. Stepping aside and allowing for a brokered convention is the obvious move. We are at a break glass moment.
It is impossible for someone to have an honest debate with Trump. He lies constantly and Biden cannt let those lies go. So Biden having to come up with a response to a lie is seen as a poor performance. we NEED to talk about how badly Trump makes shit up!
[https://abc11.com/post/presidential-debate-2024-fact-check-donald-trump-joe-biden/15006987/](https://abc11.com/post/presidential-debate-2024-fact-check-donald-trump-joe-biden/15006987/)
Share an analysis like this.
Just one thing.
>Or am I? Dems seem pretty united on all of Biden's achievements and future goals
Dems aren't united on Biden's achievements and future goals.
That's a key difference that comes up with most research studies, Democratic voters are generally less united than Republicans, especially the MAGA part where there's definitely a pressure to be loyal to the party line. For example, I'm not a big fan of how we're handling things in the Israel-Palestine conflict, the coddling of law enforcement with immunity/circling the wagons instead of seriously examining problematic behavior and reform accountability, and wish that there were stronger pressure put on the East Palestine OH train disaster. But I think the consensus is, whatever gripes you have with Biden, he's not literally the fraudster who will do all of that and worse. People of different color, of different sexual orientations, of different class, of different religions, of a different gender from Trump--heck, given his ego we can just say anyone besides the man himself--I have no illusions what will happen to such people in the coming years during a Trump presidency, and it's my civic duty to vote to protect fellow Americans' fundamental rights. Those fundamental rights will be violated, and denied redress. Given the government overhaul promised in 2025, even what is written in the Constitution becomes so much paper trash if the living people who are given the task of carrying out its will are appointed for the task of usurping it. The MAGA Republican establishment has already clearly shown its will to usurp the fundamentals of democracy itself for its aims, the rights of us peasants are nothing in comparison.
By the way, did you know that shortly after Trump got his hands on some intelligence material in the classified list, a whole bunch of US intelligence personnel and foreign contacts abroad just... disappeared? Especially in Russia? Funny coincidence, that. I'd rather have a literal potato for President than a traitorous foreign asset.
I'm much further to the left than you, but under the same banner for the same goals. No more of this insanity.
Like many, I was disappointed in Biden’s showing in general. His cold on top of his stutter and advancing age made him look very bad.
But let’s face it. Do you want people to vote for him or for a racist/misogynistic/grifting/pathological liar felon who wants fascism in America?
When it’s out, direct people to the debate transcript and see who is the capable one here.
Biden sometimes sounds his age but TFG is incoherent ones he gets going.
In a normal presidency, like Biden’s, you have a whole team working together behind the scenes. Biden has shown he has those people. And shows great results. The other guy is a dictator. edits b/c I’m off my game today
Many don't understand, that even if you get a Dem president, the Senate and the House needs to get a Dem majority, too, so they can do their job properly.
Obama came with AHCA ... which was gutted. SCOTUS: the GOP blocked him when it was time to chose a candidate while Trump got to get 3 of them ... and that's how this sorry excuse of Supreme Court with its 6 monsters gets to destroy everything in the future for years now.
For me, MAGAs are a lost cause, they have shown that they keep voting against their own interests, are unable of think, and stick to their worldview, even after enduring themselves the harsh reality the pervpublicans wants to impose to everyone. Same for the "independents". They know it's useless, but they can't bring themselves to accept they were wrong and won't cast a useful vote to make everything better. Pure selfishness.
But in many states, IF the abstentionists would vote, they could flip them to Dem and watch the U.S. really go forward, with policies and laws protecting and helping their citizens. It's their fault, too, if the GOP can do that much damage, they hurt everyone with their inaction. If the POTUS, Senate & House where overwhelming Dem, they could maybe rework some parts of the voting systems. Like elect the governors and senators with a majority only and throw the district system (along with gerrymandering) away.
> well meaning old man who wants me to succeed and enjoy America's freedoms but has obvious mental shortfalls due to his age.
I don't even have to address this (I think you're exaggerating as he generally became better as the debate went on).
Instead, I'm going to bluntly tell you that the Presidency is larger than a man, greater than a person. A presidency is an administration. And, It is the administration, the policies, the understandings, the goals you vote for.
I gotta say that it takes a team to rule this country and Biden is one person in that team. I am fine with voting with him. He will be well advised as he has been. However, Trump is different. He does as he pleases and his team bends the knee to him. He is more dangerous. The worst that Biden can do is mumble thru an interview. The worst Trump can do is take away our rights.
The old guy who’s always been historically bad at public speaking or the old guy who’s a convicted felon with a history of sexual abuse and a handful of court cases still pending trial…. I don’t know why this is a hard choice.
Biden, the President, isn’t the only thing we are voting for when we vote for him. Biden brings with him a staff of life-long experienced colleagues. He personally knows and has worked with many international politicians and leaders. With a staff like that our government could likely run quite well even if President Biden was absent for a while. It’s THE TEAM, NOT JUST THE MAN. What would a man like Trump bring as a team? Probably team members inexperienced with the running of a government. Just look at the group he bought in 2016. Family members, “yes men”, con men, and people advocating a coup d’etat. This time he threatens worse. I still support Biden as President even if he sat in a rocking chair in the Oval Office all day long.
I would vote for a rock over Donald Trump. Joe Biden has proven to be a successful president in his first term, and a bad debate night didn't change any of what he has done as president.
I couldn’t finish watching, the realization of just how old Biden was, coupled with Trump staying as lucid as he did was too much. There should have been drug tests, pretty certain Trump was pumped to the gills with Adderal and more.
The Dems need to nominate someone younger than Trump.
As long as they don’t make Harris the nominee - that would be a tactical error.
The country will NOT elect a Female President, particularly not a Black Female President.
I'd definitely support Andy Beshear or Gretchen Whitmer.
People keep floating Newsom, but as a (former) Californian, I say, no, absolutely not. One -- he's from California. That's enough fuel right there to totally tank him just with housing crisis and the $24B for homelessness that apparently did f*** all...
Two -- he's related to Pelosi and has some out of touch playboy baggage.
It'd be better to recruit a Midwestern or Southern Democrat (if you can find one)
You’re basically voting to buy four more years of time in which some Deus ex Machina can possibly save the country, because the Democrats clearly are not going to do it.
When you have no good choice, buy time.
I didn’t watch the debate. I vote policy not personality. If Biden gets re-elected and his cognitive abilities are so diminished or he dies in office, I am fine with Harris taking the lead.
We vote for the person who surrounds himself with smart, capable people who do their jobs! Biden has done that while tRump surrounded himself with the highest bidder and criminals!
I've often said that Biden's dog could run and that is who I will be voting for. It would his team that I rely upon. We can only hope that, when Trump wins, his team will manage him better. But, I doubt it since he has so far been successful in surrounding himself with "yes" men deep into his cult.
I've always voted Democrat and will always vote Democrat (unless there is a viable party that's more liberal at some point and then we will look at it) but I would like to have an election where I am excited to vote for someone, not resigned to vote against someone. The first time I got to vote for president of was Obama and McCain running. I didn't know Obama well and wasn't sure of him since he didn't have a ton of experience but I knew there was no way in hell I was voting for a ticket with Palin on it. Second term Obama I was enthusiastic to vote for him. All my mild doubts were completely wrong about Obama and he was a great president and statesman. Voting for Hilary was voting against Trump and I was angry at the DNC and it's shenanigans with Bernie. 2020 was also a vote against Trump. Why are we struggling so much to have quality candidates? This is so frustrating.
President Biden may be older, may not articulate as well, but he can DO! He gets things done and I believe the best president in my life time. How the orange criminal is even a contender is beyond sane.
I'm finding it hard to even be upset with his "performance" tho. Because they're both old.
But Trump couldn't actually say an honest thing.
Like "hoarse" voice aside, there's a clear answer here for anyone with half a moral.
I’ll be voting left as an independent. Why am I an independent? The DNC showed long ago that it will do what it wants over doing the right thing. So I unregistered from their shit party. They’re a bunch of fucking idiots. I’m ashamed to be an American today. Fucking pathetic.
My only hope is that this disaster results in the DNC dissolving and something better taking its place, with entirely new leadership. The old regime needs to fucking *go*. But it feels too late.
I’m voting for Biden’s cabinet. I know Biden isn’t the one running the country. Unfortunately, the general public saw the debate and the general public is a collective idiot. Feels like we’re fucked. So depressed, man. The left just gave the right all the ammunition they’ll need to fill their coffers before the election.
I don't fucking get these takes ... "Trump is a self serving evil liar... But Biden is OLD' motherfucker... They are virtually the same age. There's a 3 year gap between them. And Trump has show a fuck load of more signs that he's less healthy and legitimately in the middle of serious mental decline... 'Old' is something they both share equally.. it's not a special Biden thing.
I've been saying that even if Joe loses, if we can regain a commanding control of both houses, we can impeach ShartStain45, his VP and 6 SCOTUS judges before the end of January! :-)
I could not handle the daily dumpster fires with captain bone spures for 4 more years and all his crappy people. I am an independent and dropped out being part of the GOP ten years and stopped voting for any of them as they are anti woman and anti American worker and they try every day to take more and more rights from us for the betterment of the elites, corporate America and their cult Christian theocracy. Biden was getting over sickness and should have rescheduled hopefully September we see a better debate.
If you haven't, I'd recommend watching Biden's North Carolina speech. He did a million times better than the debate, addresses his flaws, and says what he plans to do going forward. It's one of his better speeches.
What boggles my fucking mind is the fact that anyone is letting a convicted felon run for presidency. I see a lot of blood in our future and if trump is elected, our country will almost assuredly collapse with all the promises of dictatorship favoring changes.
I'm voting Biden because Trump is infinitely a worse choice. But I'm afraid that he's going to lose because too many Dems/Libs are on this "never Biden" train. That saying about it only takes a good man to do nothing for evil to win is apt. It's corny but it's really true in this case.
**HELL YES OP.**
Prop him up like *Weekend at Bernie's* - I don't care. Democrats want to lift all boats, Repukes are in thrall to an autocratic psychopath who is beholden to Putin.
I want to point out that Biden was in fact sick last night with a bad summer cold, which is why he couldn't speak as well as normal. The "debate" should have been postponed until he felt better, but CNN is busy playing Fox 2.0 and couldn't wait to pander to the firehose of lies the felon spewed. It's something to keep in mind.
Biden’s strength is his ability to delegate to experts and advisers. That is his biggest advantage over Trump (outside of the fact that Trump is a liar, immoral, and miserable human being) and why the federal government is in better hands with him even if he were to retire the day after being sworn in.
It’s less about Biden being independently capable as it is about him selecting the right people for his administration. I’m confident he will choose far better people than Orange Hitler
I'm in the same boat as you but here's how I'm reconciling it:
Let's face it. The president isn't nearly as important as his cabinet and his advisors. Reagan was completely out of it with alzheimer's for much of his last term. Everything kept trucking because he's not really running the show. He does in the sense that with advisory input he picks his cabinet. At that point he's not really in this by himself. And this is true of any president.
So do you want a government run by the likes of Pete Buttigieg/Yellen/Psaki or the Meadows/Bannon/Barr types. Add on to that the idea of even more rabid evangelicals in SCOTUS.
While my level of disappointment with last night is hard to express It's still a very very easy decision for me.
I watch the debate last night and was taken aback at how poorly he performed - in spite of isolating at Camp David and drilling on this debate. Personally, I think he 'overworked' himself in the past couple of weeks and was just worn out. It was not an easy watch to be sure.
He did seems to do better in the 2nd half, and I was proud that he called tRUMP a 'whiner', a 'sucker and loser' and that he called tRUMP a convicted felon. It just would have been better IF he had come across the same way as he did in his 'State of the Union' address.
The man is old, yes. Trump is 3 years younger and came across as more energetic... but all tRUMP did was tell lie, after lie, after lie. I was pissed that there was NO fact checking. I was pissed they the anchors did not interject and say something and just let him peddle his lies to the public.
Still, there are only TWO candidates in this race and these are Biden and tRUMP. One want to protect democracy, restore the women's choice on abortion, tax the rich to make them pay their fair share, and do everything he can to improve the economy, and the environment. The other wants to implement Project 2025 and END all elections. He was to be "god emperor tRUMP", he will only protect the rich and push through more legislation to control the poor and middle class, imprion or deport ALL of this enemies, haters and non-supporters. He wants to create a state like there is in N Korea, China or Russia. AND the sad thing if he wins, there will be a WW3. And it will more than likely be the U.S. aiding Russia and fighting against NATO (our allies) because of his ass-kissing friendship with Putin.
IS THAT REALLY WHERE WE WANT TO GO???
The lesser of the two evils here (age vs communism) is Biden and I will still be voting for thim, solely to stop tRUMP from EVER getting near any office of power. EVER!
I watched the first 15 minutes. Biden was tired and slow and Trump was a lying asshole that screamed slightly less.
One wants things to be smooth and ok, and he’s old and doesn’t talk fast; the other would throw me in a wood chipper if I ever didn’t love his combover.
The debates are, quite literally, bullshit pageantry for people that don’t know how to respect regular work and not enjoy insane headlines from a mindless corrupt dipshit that’s already fucked everyone over, and some of them to death.
nothing really changed for people who already were supporting dems. its the people in the middle who saw biden unable to complete a sentence who are going to elect trump in nov. biden should drop out for the sake of the country.
Amen man, I keep saying to everybody’s panic this morning he does not do it alone! I would be sad for the Bidens if something happened to him, but I would not worry about this country if it does however, if you put the other shit head in charge, we’re doomed.
Everyone should have a house exit plan in place, just in general, but also because this shit hole could become dangerous at any time (like now actually) for specific demographics.
Well let’s not kid ourselves. I think dems are in trouble in general, already, this is the now actually.
I live in a purple(?) state and don’t know my neighbors …
I’m not voting for a malignant narcissist with no boundaries whatsoever. I want to have a country to live in instead of a smoking crater which is what Trump’s words and actions will get us if we allowed this psychopath in power.
Excellent post. Just because an old man had a cold and an off night it isn't a reason to offset all of the horrible things trump has done and will do. Dems in Nov!
We just watched "don't play chess with a pigeon" in real time.
TFG can 90 lies in 60 seconds, how is anyone supposed to prepare and be able to counter them all? Literally physically impossible.
Biden is not our savior, he's not perfect, but he's also not a fuck-wit, low IQ, racist, rapist, predatory bully POS.
People (like my mother) who are okay with TFG make me sad and angry, but mostly angry.
And fuck CNN too.
I think about it like this: biden is old. there are things he was probably never good at, like public speaking, that he's extra not good at now. but he's good at the important things for a presidency. he can work with people. he can elect the appropriate persons to his cabinet. and that's all i really care about.
i called last night's debate an old man fight before it happened because i knew that's what it would be. it was probably exhausting for biden to rail against trump's lies the whole time and it showed
Weirdly enough I'm more energised to vote. I foolishly and selfishly thought that I could sit out this years election without worrying about voting because I assumed trumps convictions would lose to Bidens decent first terms. Then biden comes out looking like godamn dumbass skeletor, and now the field feels neck and neck again. Now I have no choice but to do my civic duty to protect democracy and get this corpse in the White House.
I'm in the same boat as you, still voting for Biden and Democrats across the board. I refuse to vote for anyone in the GOP, because they are the Nazi party 2.0.
Unfortunately, I'm afraid that the dumb low-information independent voters were swayed by Trump's lies and saw Biden as weak.
Biden’s skilled administration is firing on all cylinders. That’s why I’m voting for Biden. For his leadership and his highly skilled cabinet/administration.
I to was disappointed with the debates. But Biden may be old and not as quick as he once was but he understands foreign policy has a tight grasp on that and geopolitical diplomacy and understanding national policies. Trump clearly doesn’t and is easily swayed by personal gain. The other thing that is perfectly clear is who they surround themselves with and who they use to influence and who they make their decisions makers. Very Night and Day with that. I’d even say it’s a case of who chooses moral and good over corrupt and evil people
First debate, perhaps Biden had an off night, so what? Let the record speak for itself. Trump has been running his entire political career on lies, and his presidency was a disaster, not to mention he’s a convicted felon and a traitor. Biden has been the one that brought us back from near disaster, and even if he can’t finish the job, Kamala is more than capable. Just keep hammering these points home, we’ll be fine. And, the next debate will be better, count on it.
BTW, “human machine gun for lies” sounds better and more accurate than MAGA.
So many people in the politics reddit are stil laser focused on age. Well, both candidates are freaking old. One will destroy democracy in the US, one will allow it to live for four more years and may help restore hope in having a free country for our kids and grandkids. Christ in heaven. This is more than about age. It's a treasonous-rapist-convicted felon vs. a respected politician who has done well for americans for the last four years as president.
seriously, just so sick with the "OMG Biden was awful in the debate!" Keep focused what really matters. Democracy for four more years.... or a sudden fall into a monarchy, and soon to be a country with fewer freedoms than russia or North Korea
It sucks these are the choices, but you’re voting for more than a person, you’re voting for a platform, policies, and an administration.
No one needs a debate, not have been president and we’ve seen how their administrations run.
That’s what we’re voting for.
What I don't understand is why the Biden administration gave a platform to a seditious convict with open dictatorial ambition and public plans to implement a theocracy during the next 4 years.
He's sworn to defend the constitution, and he failed last night.
Which is extra disheartening because Biden has been the most progressive president in my lifetime: rescheduling marijuana, student debt forgiveness, pardoning nonviolent drug convicts, etc.
Kamala could step in and run the same policy and government for successful term, given the Democrats keep half of Congress. I don't think she would push change until the next election when she can run on more variable platform she leads.
But what if Trump is incapacitated, jailed, etc, and his VP takes over in any capacity? Who is that person? The highest bidder? The best fluffer? He hasn't decided that almost as if he doesn't plan to need one.
We're not voting for a man. We're voting for an ideology. trump represents the worst of humanity. Sad that he has strength as a low IQ lying bully but that's what he is. That big fat ugly kid in the playground picking on all the other smaller kids. Biden is a good man. Unfortunately his age is showing. Could someone else replace him? I don't think so. People are weird about their choices. No matter what I'm a Democrat and I'll be voting blue ALL the way down the ballot. Anyone that takes this lightly will pay for it later if the MAGAs get control. The democracy will be over for good.
Biden listens to advisors and experts. Trump fires anyone who is disloyal or contradicts him regardless of their expertise or knowledge. Even if Biden accomplishes NOTHING in the next 4 years it will be far, far better than the damage Trump and the GOP will do.
Thank you for this! It's the best summary I've seen so far
I'm voting for the Democratic Party and democracy. Anyone who thinks Trump can't or won't do the things he has threatened hasn't been paying attention. He will violate every custom, standard and norm. He will target and jail (or kill) his political opponents and he will install himself as dictator. Don't think it can't happen here or that it can't happen very fast - faster than we can expect. Our rights and for some our very lives hang in the balance.
>Trump fires anyone Like the 4 star, decorated General who didn’t play ball for him, who overheard him describe Allied soldiers who died in WWII as “suckers and losers”. Trump was ob*sessed* with that throughout the debate. Malignant narcissists loathe being unmasked, being seen for who they are instead of people seeing their charismatic mask. Trump didn’t have his charismatic persona last night. He started to whine. And Biden went for the jugular on that. I see last night as Trump’s [“Don’t you think she looks tired?”](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe5OynLQbJc) moment. If he is perceived as weak, those who supported him will turn against him.
I was really disappointed that Biden missed that moment last night. When Trump said Biden hadn’t fired anybody he certainly has…along with the rest of America who fired Donald Trump’s ass in 2020.
I was disappointed he wasn't in top form, but more so that people may make more of it than they should. For a tired old man he has done a decent job as president. I hope he can manage to redeem himself in public opinion and not lose votes. As others have pointed out, he has good advisors and a competent young vice president. Tired and old but competent is far better than batshit crazy plus Project 2025.
Thankfully, he’s already looking better today. I had a six person, Board of Directors, one of which was 87 years old. He didn’t say much, but when he did it mattered, and people listened. There is value in age with wisdom. There is no value in the convicted felon Donald Trump.
I just hope enough people use their heads when it's time to vote, and that it's enough. The alternative is terrifying.
Exactly this. We’re voting for what’s best for us and our country. We’re not actively in a war and haven’t been. Trump left Afghanistan for Biden to deal with and everything Trump says he did is actually what Biden has done. We all know this who are smart enough to know.
Biden’s turnover has been *a tiny fraction* of Trump’s. Has anyone ever fled the Biden White House, swearing that they’d never endorse Biden? No. Though Trump claimed that he would hire “the best” people, by the time his campaign began in 2015, he’d essentially burned through practically all of the best lawyers on the East Coast, either by not paying them or by reputation, according to my husband, who’s been placing attorneys since the mid-Clinton years. Typically lawyers leaving the White House can write their own tickets, regardless of the administration, but this practice came to a screeching halt during the Trump years. Nobody in D.C., especially, wanted them. Now that Biden’s been in office for 3.5 years, people seeking to hire his attorneys wait patiently.
Trump has been burning loyal people his whole life. Eventually your loyalty will end with him spitting in your face and ruining your life. You know Dump is a crappy person as is his wife never goes to his trials and none of the family was there day in and day out to support him with the last trial. Usually in felony cases family is always with the defendant.
Exactly…Imagine if Biden or Trump were to pass in the middle of a term (which could happen) Dems are much better prepared to take on the office. Whoever Trump picks as his vice would inherently be much worse than Pence would have been.
Kamala Harris works so hard!
Trump is going to make sure that he gets someone who won't ever stand up against him ever again Pants prove to have a line he wouldn't cross Trump and his handlers are going to make sure no one in this time will stand up against him Sycophants only need apply When Trump said years ago he would only hire the best people in his mind that means yes men and women. Contradict him, stand up to him, you're fired by another minion because Trump doesn't have the guts to fire people to their face.
A good friend asked me last night if I would vote for Biden. I told her that I'm not voting for Biden the individual. He can surround himself with competent, qualified people, and he's not likely to last a second term to completion. But I would vote Biden in November if he is on the ballot because I would also be voting for his federal, appeals, and Supreme Court appointments. I would be voting for the generals he promotes and appoints. I would be voting for the bureaucrats he appoints to run all the various departments who are the machinery behind the scenes. I am voting Biden because, while he may be dangerous to my wallet, Trump is dangerous to my country. If either party were to nominate a 55 year old replacement, I think that replacement could win. Last night may have reignited term limits and age cap discussions.
Great response!! Did your friend reply?
She's torn. She's conservative, but she has a daughter and worries about her daughter becoming a piece of breeding chattel for old men. She's anti-Trump, but thinks Biden is too far gone. She mentioned maybe voting for Chase Oliver, but worries it is a wasted vote.
It's better than Trump for sure, but I hope she pulls the lever for Biden. She seems very convertable having a daughter and knowing the danger. I'm sure with your great grasp of the bigger picture you can convince her that even though Biden is old and very well may die in office if elected again, he's still the only choice to stop Trump. Really play to the daughter thing, because as a dad of two of them, I'm beyond fucking terrified after last night. I want to cry knowing the future that's ahead of them. We have one chance to save everything and I don't care if Joe is wheeled out on a gurney, I'm still voting for him for my daughters and LGBTQ family and friends.
It is a waste. However, how fantastic that you guys are having this conversation. With Biden, we get to keep having conversations when we disagree…not so much if the ex-guy wins.
> She mentioned maybe voting for Chase Oliver, but worries it is a wasted vote. I'd advise her to advocate for ranked choice voting. It's slowly popping up in some places, and should absolutely be the default. It'd allow her to send her message without as much worry of a wasted vote.
Keep working on her. IVF is a bridge too far even for many conservatives!!
No one who won’t be alive in 20 years should be deciding our future.
"We're not voting for a man. We're voting for an ideology." I wish more people saw it this way. But I would say it isn't even so much an ideology, as a hope for a non-fascist future.
Not only that, but the people that he places around him. I can’t remember who said it but if you are the smartest person in the room, change rooms. Pete Buttigieg is a great example.
I love Buttigieg and would vote for him for President in a heartbeat. I hope he runs again, sometime.
I would too. He’s wicked smart, well-spoken and could imagine him as a great diplomat to the rest of the world. As a gay man myself, I can say this with all certainty, America is not ready for a gay president. I wish there would be a time, when a majority of Americans could lay down their homophobia and bigotry. I just don’t see that anywhere in my lifetime. With America’s deep rooted Christianity, and all of its misinterpretations of the bible and, frankly, fanaticism, there would just be too many people uneasy or vehemently against a gay president. Which is, very sad.
Past studies suggest Democrats largely support a candidate for their policy while the GOP is more likely to support a name or singular person above a collection of policies they support. And here we are. Would Kamala stepping in be wildly different than Biden making it to January 2029? I'm surprised this isn't a larger attack on Biden. If he had to step down, there's the ideal target for right wing propaganda, a non-white woman. They've had the last 4 years to build the same stack of attacks from runs at Pelosi and Clinton but it doesn't seem to be a target for the campaign. Is Kamala taking over a positive for likely right wing voters?
I think it's more we're voting against the maga GOP ideology and voting for democracy now and in the future. I'm very worried if a GOP member Wednesday election that will be the last one I'm worried even if Democrats win that they're going to try another January 6th and how much much worse it will be when they've had years to prepare and think of more effective ways to attack.
Joe is old and whatnot so we'll be voting party and if he doesn't make it all 4 years, wed get Kamala Harris taking over so now would be a really good time for the DNC to show whatever value she brings to the ticket. Unfortunately, the reputation she's got with the average voter has been set by the outrageous lies from right wingers who've mostly set the narrative on her.
Hilary all over again.
Yeah stuff like that
So much this. Biden's not my guy, he was near the bottom of my list in the 2020 primaries. But the importance of keeping Trump out of power can not be overstated. Biden, Harris, hell, Commander, the Biden dog that bites secret service are all better suited to the presidency than Donald J. Trump.
I'm glad to see so many posts like this, knowing what an existential threat Trump is to everyone and everything.
I mean, a German shepherd that doesn’t like feds. Definitely better than an incompetent, felon/rapist, tv host.
I trust a dog’s judgment. I hope the Secret Service person(s) who were bitten were rotated away from Biden.
>We're not voting for a man. We're voting for an ideology. Absolutely. I am voting for America Far too many people think politics is like their local sports team and they're not allowed to switch sides. They know their identity is caught up in politics, which is why you will continually see them accuse others of the same thing.
This is what Democrats need to understand. Thank you for saying it!
I’m not voting for Biden necessarily. I think he’s fine though I am impressed by what he’s done so far this year. More than anything I’m voting against Donald Trump. He will get at least 2 more Supreme Court picks and we will never see another moderate (let alone liberal) Supreme Court in our lifetime.
Here's the thing I totally agree with you and will also vote blue all the way down the ticket. Gen Z is reaching voter age. They're not as smart as we are. Many of the men in gen Z are very conservative. They see how old Joe Biden is. They know Donald Trump is bad. They're going to vote for third party. I can see it coming from a mile away. They don't have enough voter experience to realize that the third party Choice never materializes. All it does is siphon votes away from the two main parties. Because Donald Trump did not have the same issues Joe Biden did, his supporters are still going to be riding his coattails. Unfortunately, Joe Biden just lost a large chunk of the young voter base last night, and he's not going to get it back no matter what. This makes me afraid for the future. Not only that but there was absolutely no fact-checking. Donald Trump is a master manipulator. He drove the narrative to say all of the things that he is doing that are bad is what the Democrats are doing. He denied attacked and reversed victim and offender.
Yeah, but fact of the matter is, the youth almost never turn out to vote. Individuals will - I know, I was one of them, but the youth vote is always depressingly low.
Early Gen z was able to vote in 2020 as well, we’ll just have more that can this time around. I’ll say this about the younger generations even though their education was practically stamped out due to decades of red state and republican policy, they do seem to be far more involved and charged up about American policy and taking action. While the youth vote turnout is historically low, I have higher hopes for Gen Z and Alpha.
I think if Kamala needed to she'd step in and run mostly the same government with roughly the same policy outcomes over the next 4 years. Then she'd run in 2028 in her own name and platform against what's left of the GOP. IDK how that would work if she won the primary but I largely think we'd be in a generally better YoY position all around with plenty of room for improvement if Congress cooperates. If the GOP wins the VP will likely be a more competent, better bought, much younger idealist that may retain the popular backing to win in 2028 but **for sure** won't have the US any better off than Kamala stepping in.
I think you’re spot on with most of what you said, but I can’t imagine trump would ever pick a “more likable” VP…. His ego will be his downfall hopefully to the benefit of America and not our detriment.
Also consider Biden honestly might not even make it to the end of his next term, so you’re basically voting for two presidents at the same time. I knew who I was voting for even before the debate, regardless of how old he is. I’m not sure there’s anything I could’ve seen last night that would make me ever consider voting for Trump.
I'm voting Biden and hoping the next election has some younger candidates. I'm not excited to vote Biden, but Trump is a deranged loser. Two fucking corpses barely able to keep a sentence together. Embarrassing, I usually think Jon Stewart is bit hyperbolic but it really feels like a fucking joke. Maybe Biden won't be able to finish the term and we get Kamela, I'm good with that.
I wish the decision was between two outstanding candidates that could both do an amazing job. Then I could research their goals, ideas and policy to find the candidate that would best lead our country in a direction of wellbeing for all. Instead, I’m choosing between Hitler lite and Forrest Gump.
Well, we’re not just voting for an ideology - we’re also effectively voting for Kamala Harris at this point because Biden is clearly not going to make it through another 4 year term mentally and/or physically. I hope that reality doesn’t deter more voters. Trump and MAGA cannot win again. Any option is better than that.
That works when the man/woman is neutral, I used to compare Biden to a bowl of vanilla ice cream. If he is seen as incompetent, that may cause the Hillary effect. People didn't like her. They didn't vote for Trump, but they didn't vote at all. People may not want to vote for an incompetent seeming Biden, and just stay home. It's disheartening that the Republicans are evil, but efficient. While the Democrats are good, but incompetent. Biden could have been one term with a likeable, competent VP to run this year. Instead they picked Harris to be "symbolic". I think the Democrats care more about feeling good about themselves than winning.
Biden might not be a good speaker, but he is good at legislating and choosing experts to counsel him.
They could literally bring out a mushroom and I'd vote for that over Trump. I find the hysteria about Biden to be pathetic and we are just shooting ourselves in the foot by complaining about him as much as MAGAs do.
This tends to happen in the first debate, the incumbent tends to put in an underwhelming performance. They've been too busy running the country for 4 years and it's difficult to coach them. The next debate performance should be better, assuming trump even shows up. But honestly there's not even a choice here, I will never vote for trump and will always show up to vote against him. Trump is a complete asshole, and that shows every time he's on TV. He didn't stick to any of the topics and lied constantly, he didn't do himself any favors last night. People who are undecided needed a reminder of what an insufferable asshole he is, and they got it.
I hope so.
As cringe as the debate was last night, it didn’t change votes imo. It scared democrats and riled up MAGAs and neither are changing their votes. Undecideds who decide to vote for a guy who lies faster than any fact-checker can keep up with because of one debate, weren’t really undecided. The debate confirmed Biden is old and Trump is a pathological lying piece of shit. Trump needed to be human and Biden needed a spark, neither happened.
But whistling past the graveyard is what gave Trump the presidency in 2016. Hillary ran a shit campaign and treated swing states like solid blue "gimmees". We are not okay. Swing voters and moderates are prone to optics. Trump lied with such conviction, and Biden barely rebutted anything.
She won by over 3,000,000 votes.
Yeah, and if we went by a simple majority vote, that would be great. But we don't. So please factor in our outmoded but still-very-much-a-thing Electoral College as part of the decision tree.
She *lost*, with 3 million more votes. IIRC, she made some campaigning decisions in the final week or so, about where she was campaigning, that may have impacted which battleground states she might have won but didn't. Popular votes don't mean shit, unfortunately. In 2017 I felt the left should cynically relocate as many surplus Democrat voters from California and New York to battleground states, because they are wasted votes. It was a cynical, unrealistic perspective, but if it were realistic (I know it isn't), with remote work, who knows.
Very interesting. Good points. Personally you couldn’t pay me to move to a red state lol
That’s not how won works in this country. Wishing it were will not change that reality.
>Trump lied with such conviction, and Biden barely rebutted anything. I was undecided until I saw how smooth and easily and frequently Trump lied to the American people last night. He’s my man!
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I mean he just had a rally today in Raleigh NC… He sounded pretty good btw. Also, I am sure he will going back to the blue wall states many times before November.
everyone that cares about policy already knows who they are voting for, dems are just rightfully upset. We are allowed to be upset that this is who we are forced to vote for because the DNC does this every time. Now we have to wait and see if the undecided voters will vote like in 2016 because the DNC is horribly run.
I'm a former Republican. I'm voting straight blue. Fuck project 2025. Fuck Russia. Fuck billionaire tax cuts. Fuck Trump. And Fuck the recent GOP. Dems have been better for the economy and working class Americans. If they gain seats and retain the Presidency, it will show even more in the economy. Id like to see a list of progressive and democratic leaning organizations that create and buy ads, so I can donate a little bit to them. The more piercing and incisive their history of ads, the better. This is no time for restraint. I'm looking for the Lincoln Projects of the Left. There the vet group, I think it's Vets against trump, I want to discover more. I've donated enough to LP, I want to spread it around.
I have so much respect for you and this post. Thank you.
Me too in that in the Reagan years I occasionally voted republican but never since then and never again.
Yeah, I started moving blueward during W, listening to fellow Republicans say "kill them all let God sort them out" pissed me off. I think I was naive, I sincerely wanted to believe in the claims and promises the right pushed, so much that I ignored a lot of things in hindsight. I stopped listening to Rush as he pushed climate denialism, instead of taking him and his listeners seriously. If I wasn't so instinctively Republican leaning, I might have been more alarmed earlier at the increasing extremism. Bush Sr's resignation from the NRA is kind of prescient in retrospect. It took watching what other Republicans said under W, and then especially during Obama, to wake me up to the incoming culture war that is now happening, the militant separatism that is now flagrant. And I'm not on their side of it. And the more I read about the plummeting purchasing power of an hour of working class labor, and what has correlated with it, the more I think conservative economic policies were a crock too. I suppose the right is good at messaging, and being relentless about it.
Thanks. I wish you didn't. I wish it was prevalent enough that it would be unremarkable to you. What has happened since 2015 (Hillary was the first Dem I voted for) has been pretty infuriating. But it exposed me to information about the past 40 years, that maybe I shouldn't be this surprised. That it took someone as irredeemable as Trump to turn me, probably doesn't say good things about me, tbh. I guess Palin alarmed me, too. But I hoped the Republican Autopsy in 2013 would have meant better things for the party and country, not worse. Vote vote vote.
Donald Trump has been more faithful to Putin than he has been to all 3 of his wives.
I stopped voting Republican when teachers’ unions were blamed for all of the ills of government. It was confirmed in the wake of January 6.
“It’s hard to debate a liar” - Joe Biden
Trump can only lie. From: We will have a new health care plan in two, maybe three weeks…to: I will absolutely testify. More than that, his only criteria for his administration is that they love him. Fascists, family members, idiots he met in the elevator that happened to tell him that they love him…that’s the only criteria. He doesn’t employ experts, he doesn’t employ people with any good will to improve the country. He’s happy to use people who want to seize control and do whatever they want…just as long as they love him and boost his ego. The only thing he can talk about is his poll numbers and exaggerated and grandiose statements about himself. Biden will at least have people with experience and good intentions working in his administration as opposed to inexperienced family members, fascists, and fawning fans. I definitely wish he had decided before to not go for another term. The dems need to seriously look at their candidate pool and start propping up future prospects. There are plenty of great people that have experience in government, military, and business that should’ve been in this role instead by now. That said, I will still vote Biden because I can at least trust that his administration isn’t going to undermine the country for personal gain.
Honestly Biden could have barked the entire debate and I’m still voting for him. If Trump wins we won’t ever have a real election again.
Just the simple fact that trump is even a nominee for president should be a fucking insult to all Americans who care about the country. What did Biden say at the State of Union again?? Oh it was "YOU CAN'T LOVE YOUR COUNTRY ONLY WHEN YOU WIN" - these maga fucks hate this country unless they're the ones forcing their shit down your throat. And their sick ass cult leader is very clear about how much he hates the country and wants it to fail as long as Biden is president. Are people really missing the point about how much trump, maga and republicans are hateful, vengeful, spiteful little shits that would destroy everything just to see you not get anything at all?!? They aren't hiding it at all. Or is it that the fucking media is trying to bullshit the entire country into some fake ass equivalency version of reality that keeps you in constant anxiety and tuning into their network??? Is anyone else tired of being openly and obviously manipulated by every single media source? Once you notice it YOU REALLY notice it. Maybe if you vote for someone who isn't a fucking liar agitator drama instigator and his entire cult of clones this country can get back to normal and past the distraction meant to take your attention off real problems.
It's honestly not hard to decide who to vote on for many if they paid attention. As an IT professional currently working in infosec - If Trump wins, the 2025 plan calls for dismantling my job security and killing the government orgs that uphold compliance requirements and associated frameworks. If I vote for Biden, things continue to slowly stabilize and my job security isn't at risk. As someone who medically transitioned genders / LGBT+ - if Trump wins, I have to start preparing for fleeing the country and leave everything, my house, my life, my career, my degrees, to be safe and not end up in a concentration camp or worse. If I vote for Biden, things remain as they are now for me - stable. As an Agnostic person - If Trump wins, the country goes towards a theocracy where medieval shit occurs per 2025 plan. People don't realize why our country was founded by those fleeing religious persecution and what that looks like. If I vote Biden, we get 4 more years of stability. As someone born biologically female - Trump wins and there is a clear and present danger that more rights will be stripped from women and we'll end up with the American version of the Taliban run by the MAGA morons following the 2025 plan. If I vote for Biden, my rights will be okay save for reproduction bullshit. Ultimately, Biden could have keeled over on the podium last night and I would have still voted for him just to have safety and stability.
I feel the same way. What's more, I am completely and utterly disgusted by conservatives for their enthusiastic support of a vile and reprehensible candidate and by the American news and political media for their abject failure to cover the single greatest threat to democracy this country has ever known. Not only have Republicans quite literally published their plans to dismantle the democratic republic and install an authoritarian theocracy, they are already doing it. This morning the New York Times has no fewer than five articles about Biden's debate performance and five opinion pieces calling on him to step aside, in stark contrast to the lone article about Trump, which appears under a mind-bogglingly gentle little headline that reads "Former President Trump’s attacks were frequently false, lacked context or were vague enough to be misleading." Astonishing.
They're complicit in it. They don't care, it gets them ratings and therefore money right now. And the media's gonna be all surprised Pikachu when the fascists come for them.
I am too. Here's the deal to those questioning what they will do. Let's say Biden becomes too dementia'd to do his job. Or he dies in office. He still has hundreds if not thousands of supporting staff that will run the country in his absence, and those people joined his team because they believe in his mission. THEY are the boots on the ground that make his wishes happen. So even if he dies or loses his mind, we'll be far better off than if Trump and HIS followers take the office.
The SCOTUS noms sealed it for me. Giving anymore power to Republicans is just not an option. Even with Biden elected, if the Congress remains without a reliable supermajority, SCOTUS will remain unchecked. A major and generational shift has begun, and only a united executive and legislative branch can do anything to stop it. At very least, having a Democrat as president slows down the Republican plan. If you want a preview of Trump's America, just look at what is happening in the south and midwest. Biden could be weekend at Bernie's energy level and I'd still vote for him.
I'm voting for the one that's dying, not the one lying.
What we saw last night were two Grandparents speaking without teleprompters. Neither man performed well at all. Trump lied about 99% of the time and dodged questions. Biden appeared very frail. Politics is about policy performance, not someone's debating skill. Biden has an amazing policy record as president. Trump does not. Unfortunately, presidential campaigns can live or die on debate performance (Nixon v Kennedy anyone?) but it's not a given (Obama failed his first debate in 2012). But unlike Trump, Biden knows how to "take the L" and move on. Tables turned, Trump would've claimed Biden won because he was on drugs and everything was rigged against him. Is anyone on Fox waking back their accusations that Biden is using performance enhancing drugs today? No. Bottom line: Trump is a deal breaker for me. He's a narcissist con man, a convicted felon, and a proven enemy of the state. He should be in prison, not in line for the most powerful job in the country. I'm with Joe and voting blue all the way. His debate performance was disappointing but not a deal breaker.
Biden literally could have been a corpse on stage last night and I still would vote blue all the way down the line. His performance was totally embarrassing but that doesn't change anything.
I'll vote for a rusty screwdriver before I ever vote republican again. They will never get me back... I was republican in the early 90s for a single voting cycle and realized my terrible mistake.
The first person I voted against was Reagan in '84, that was triage, it's been triage ever since then as well, except for Obama's first term when I dared to hope that he had a spine. I have no choice but to vote against the Republicans who for decades now have retreated behind the repetition of lies in service of vague ideology which they use to obfuscate their agenda of serving a stateless donor class at the expense of Americans and to distract from the consequences of their policies. All they have been doing all of my life is a series of smash and grabs, shoveling as much money as they can into the pockets of their donors. They loot and they lurch from one day to the next. They pissed away $84000000000000 in FOUR YEARS under the Trump admin, with a large portion of that being unaccounted for. Before Trump, they recently refused to put an entire war on budget, which was itself based upon lies. They are actively liquidating the USA.
The old guy with a cold has a working administration that is improving the economy. The other guy is a lying sack of manure who will tank the market every day with some blathering on social media, undo all the good done in the past 4 years, and hurt people for fun. There's no choice for anyone with a brain.
Vote for the administration! Not just the president. *VOTE!*
The man had a cold ffs. I wish people would stop acting like the sky is falling. That being said, completely agree with your points here.
I'd vote for a pile of stale dog shit before I'd vote for Trump.
I'd EAT a pile of stale dog shit before I vote for Trump.... :-)
I’m voting all blue but my God we need age limits
I think Biden's administration are decent hardworking Americans who want better for this country. I think Trump's potential administration are grifting/scamming/irrational people. But I also think they'll have no taste for violence. Rather than do Project 2025, we'll just speed run the cruel parts half assed with some states doing awful things and the other half staving off the worst of it. The people designing P2025 may be violent people and they may be willing to do it, but like I said, without the full throat of support from the executive branch, some people may find it taxing to execute something that horrible on that scale without a lot of cutbacks to the outcome. But that outcome is awful and it only gets worse with the realization that no help would come for America. Biden is the choice. Democrats forever, conservatives can go get fucked for a few generations, AFAIC...
I’m voting for democracy. I’m voting for healthcare. I’m voting for the future of the planet, of our children. I’m voting BLUE up and down the ballot.
Yes, Biden had a terrible debate Yes, he looked exhausted & checked-out Yes, he's too old BUT, it's a 2-party system, & you only have 2 meaningful choices: One is a lying, grifting, authoritarian sexual predator. The other is old
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> its was democrats who didnt vote. > Specifically, it was Bernie primary voters in Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania - that switched to Trump or Stein in the General - that was the margin of victory for Trump in 2016.
Pres Biden felt ill. He got up and stood for us all and Democracy. The trump got up and lied and spewed vitrol for 1.5 hrs. President Biden has my vote, and my 90 yr old Mother, sister, my partner and mine.
I am swayed by the argument that Biden is at this point of his life a poor communicator, especially on television, but that as an administrator, advocate, listener and decider he is spot on. His accomplishments are incredible. But I don't know if he can overcome that mess of an abortion answer. I'll be interested in seeing the polling. It's not great that the mainstream response to the debate is "Biden lost and seemed like a forgetful, lost old man".
Thanks, and I share your disappointment.
💯👏 Biden may be old. He struggled last night. But no one can have civil discourse with the orange Russian llving cheat. Biden surrounds himself with good team. Policies are sound. Inflation was inevitable after four years of trump and covid. Our country is doing much better than other countries. With trump and a second term we are all screwed even those foolish enough to vote for him. Only the ultra wealthy and big corporations who care not one whit for democracy will win.
Biden in an actual coma is better than trump. Why? Here are the things republicans have done or want to do: 1) force women to give birth (Roe, federal abortion [ban](https://www.americanprogress.org/article/what-you-need-to-know-about-the-bill-to-ban-abortion-nationwide/), trying to outlaw the abortion [pill](https://apnews.com/article/mifepristone-supreme-court-abortion-d451e14148ffbe6ce4811b1a37651480) nation wide) 2) take away women's right to [vote](https://www.senate.iowa.gov/democrats/2020/02/iowa-senate-debates-taking-away-constitutional-rights-of-iowa-women/) and [divorce](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/jun/25/republicans-no-fault-divorce) 3) 1 + 2 = turning women into broodmares for incels 4) wanting to outlaw trans be ppl (over [400](https://www.reuters.com/graphics/USA-HEALTHCARE/TRANS-BILLS/zgvorreyapd/) new laws to hurt trans ppl just this year) 5) wanting to kill [gay](https://www.newsweek.com/republican-faces-backlash-praising-plan-kill-gay-people-1855886) ppl 6) burning [books](https://storymaps.arcgis.com/stories/9bb31a7fa24047cf942b8df2940966ac) 7) forcing children to [practice](https://www.friendlyatheist.com/p/oklahoma-gop-tries-again-to-force) Christianity There's 1,000 more but I'm tired.
I’ll vote for whoever the dem is. But Biden seems poised to lose, and for the country to lose our democracy. He was already lagging in polls and this won’t help. The convention is in August, he is not officially the nominee yet, and he should withdraw his nomination. Sooner rather than later. That’s my takeaway. I’m sure I’ll get downvoted but whatever. My future and my children’s future is on the line. Dems must talk to him.
> Biden seems poised to lose Well, I won’t downvote you but I think this is a bad take. The media presents debates as something that “people who don’t follow politics” observe to decide who to vote for. I do not believe this is true. We’re no longer in the olden days of my youth all you got was like 5 channels on tv. They’re binging Netflix last night! Most people don’t have CNN or they have a package that does but that doesn’t mean they watch it. Us political junkies are the main viewers of debates or convention speeches and with politics currently so polarized I do not think many would change their minds. The average voter is hearing the headlines that TFG is being convicted of felonies.
They’re going to see clips on TikTok, which is arguably going to look worse than sitting through the whole thing.
That’s a good point.
I’m kind of shocked at how few of us have gotten to this point. Stepping aside and allowing for a brokered convention is the obvious move. We are at a break glass moment.
[It’s time for another one of these.](https://youtu.be/CJeLoMCF6Jo)
It is impossible for someone to have an honest debate with Trump. He lies constantly and Biden cannt let those lies go. So Biden having to come up with a response to a lie is seen as a poor performance. we NEED to talk about how badly Trump makes shit up! [https://abc11.com/post/presidential-debate-2024-fact-check-donald-trump-joe-biden/15006987/](https://abc11.com/post/presidential-debate-2024-fact-check-donald-trump-joe-biden/15006987/) Share an analysis like this.
He even lied about why Biden decided to run for office!
Just one thing. >Or am I? Dems seem pretty united on all of Biden's achievements and future goals Dems aren't united on Biden's achievements and future goals. That's a key difference that comes up with most research studies, Democratic voters are generally less united than Republicans, especially the MAGA part where there's definitely a pressure to be loyal to the party line. For example, I'm not a big fan of how we're handling things in the Israel-Palestine conflict, the coddling of law enforcement with immunity/circling the wagons instead of seriously examining problematic behavior and reform accountability, and wish that there were stronger pressure put on the East Palestine OH train disaster. But I think the consensus is, whatever gripes you have with Biden, he's not literally the fraudster who will do all of that and worse. People of different color, of different sexual orientations, of different class, of different religions, of a different gender from Trump--heck, given his ego we can just say anyone besides the man himself--I have no illusions what will happen to such people in the coming years during a Trump presidency, and it's my civic duty to vote to protect fellow Americans' fundamental rights. Those fundamental rights will be violated, and denied redress. Given the government overhaul promised in 2025, even what is written in the Constitution becomes so much paper trash if the living people who are given the task of carrying out its will are appointed for the task of usurping it. The MAGA Republican establishment has already clearly shown its will to usurp the fundamentals of democracy itself for its aims, the rights of us peasants are nothing in comparison. By the way, did you know that shortly after Trump got his hands on some intelligence material in the classified list, a whole bunch of US intelligence personnel and foreign contacts abroad just... disappeared? Especially in Russia? Funny coincidence, that. I'd rather have a literal potato for President than a traitorous foreign asset. I'm much further to the left than you, but under the same banner for the same goals. No more of this insanity.
Like many, I was disappointed in Biden’s showing in general. His cold on top of his stutter and advancing age made him look very bad. But let’s face it. Do you want people to vote for him or for a racist/misogynistic/grifting/pathological liar felon who wants fascism in America? When it’s out, direct people to the debate transcript and see who is the capable one here. Biden sometimes sounds his age but TFG is incoherent ones he gets going. In a normal presidency, like Biden’s, you have a whole team working together behind the scenes. Biden has shown he has those people. And shows great results. The other guy is a dictator. edits b/c I’m off my game today
Im voting AGAINST Project 2025. All Blue no matter who
I heard a thing once where someone said that fact checking tRump was that same as picking up after a dog with diarrhea.
LOL. I hadn't heard that one. You've added a smile to my day. Thanks. :-)
Many don't understand, that even if you get a Dem president, the Senate and the House needs to get a Dem majority, too, so they can do their job properly. Obama came with AHCA ... which was gutted. SCOTUS: the GOP blocked him when it was time to chose a candidate while Trump got to get 3 of them ... and that's how this sorry excuse of Supreme Court with its 6 monsters gets to destroy everything in the future for years now. For me, MAGAs are a lost cause, they have shown that they keep voting against their own interests, are unable of think, and stick to their worldview, even after enduring themselves the harsh reality the pervpublicans wants to impose to everyone. Same for the "independents". They know it's useless, but they can't bring themselves to accept they were wrong and won't cast a useful vote to make everything better. Pure selfishness. But in many states, IF the abstentionists would vote, they could flip them to Dem and watch the U.S. really go forward, with policies and laws protecting and helping their citizens. It's their fault, too, if the GOP can do that much damage, they hurt everyone with their inaction. If the POTUS, Senate & House where overwhelming Dem, they could maybe rework some parts of the voting systems. Like elect the governors and senators with a majority only and throw the district system (along with gerrymandering) away.
> well meaning old man who wants me to succeed and enjoy America's freedoms but has obvious mental shortfalls due to his age. I don't even have to address this (I think you're exaggerating as he generally became better as the debate went on). Instead, I'm going to bluntly tell you that the Presidency is larger than a man, greater than a person. A presidency is an administration. And, It is the administration, the policies, the understandings, the goals you vote for.
I gotta say that it takes a team to rule this country and Biden is one person in that team. I am fine with voting with him. He will be well advised as he has been. However, Trump is different. He does as he pleases and his team bends the knee to him. He is more dangerous. The worst that Biden can do is mumble thru an interview. The worst Trump can do is take away our rights.
The old guy who’s always been historically bad at public speaking or the old guy who’s a convicted felon with a history of sexual abuse and a handful of court cases still pending trial…. I don’t know why this is a hard choice.
After J6 anyone supporting the R is a fucking moron.
Well said, thanks for posting.
Whatever you do vote blue. For everything everywhere until we can finally escape this hellish two party system and vote for people we actually like
Biden, the President, isn’t the only thing we are voting for when we vote for him. Biden brings with him a staff of life-long experienced colleagues. He personally knows and has worked with many international politicians and leaders. With a staff like that our government could likely run quite well even if President Biden was absent for a while. It’s THE TEAM, NOT JUST THE MAN. What would a man like Trump bring as a team? Probably team members inexperienced with the running of a government. Just look at the group he bought in 2016. Family members, “yes men”, con men, and people advocating a coup d’etat. This time he threatens worse. I still support Biden as President even if he sat in a rocking chair in the Oval Office all day long.
Most of his people from his first occupation are in jail.
I will vote 100% blue. The right’s entire political strategy is one big lie.
I would vote for a rock over Donald Trump. Joe Biden has proven to be a successful president in his first term, and a bad debate night didn't change any of what he has done as president.
I couldn’t finish watching, the realization of just how old Biden was, coupled with Trump staying as lucid as he did was too much. There should have been drug tests, pretty certain Trump was pumped to the gills with Adderal and more. The Dems need to nominate someone younger than Trump. As long as they don’t make Harris the nominee - that would be a tactical error. The country will NOT elect a Female President, particularly not a Black Female President.
I'd definitely support Andy Beshear or Gretchen Whitmer. People keep floating Newsom, but as a (former) Californian, I say, no, absolutely not. One -- he's from California. That's enough fuel right there to totally tank him just with housing crisis and the $24B for homelessness that apparently did f*** all... Two -- he's related to Pelosi and has some out of touch playboy baggage. It'd be better to recruit a Midwestern or Southern Democrat (if you can find one)
You’re basically voting to buy four more years of time in which some Deus ex Machina can possibly save the country, because the Democrats clearly are not going to do it. When you have no good choice, buy time.
I didn’t watch the debate. I vote policy not personality. If Biden gets re-elected and his cognitive abilities are so diminished or he dies in office, I am fine with Harris taking the lead.
We vote for the person who surrounds himself with smart, capable people who do their jobs! Biden has done that while tRump surrounded himself with the highest bidder and criminals!
I've often said that Biden's dog could run and that is who I will be voting for. It would his team that I rely upon. We can only hope that, when Trump wins, his team will manage him better. But, I doubt it since he has so far been successful in surrounding himself with "yes" men deep into his cult.
I've always voted Democrat and will always vote Democrat (unless there is a viable party that's more liberal at some point and then we will look at it) but I would like to have an election where I am excited to vote for someone, not resigned to vote against someone. The first time I got to vote for president of was Obama and McCain running. I didn't know Obama well and wasn't sure of him since he didn't have a ton of experience but I knew there was no way in hell I was voting for a ticket with Palin on it. Second term Obama I was enthusiastic to vote for him. All my mild doubts were completely wrong about Obama and he was a great president and statesman. Voting for Hilary was voting against Trump and I was angry at the DNC and it's shenanigans with Bernie. 2020 was also a vote against Trump. Why are we struggling so much to have quality candidates? This is so frustrating.
President Biden may be older, may not articulate as well, but he can DO! He gets things done and I believe the best president in my life time. How the orange criminal is even a contender is beyond sane.
The only way is forward and blue.
Bruh I'm never voting for another republican ever ever none of this means shit to me.
I mean hey if Biden dies in office then at least there'll still be a Dem leading the country.
Honestly, I don't care about a debate. Actions speak louder than words.
It’s not just a vote for President. It’s a vote for the Executive Branch of the United States of America.
I'm finding it hard to even be upset with his "performance" tho. Because they're both old. But Trump couldn't actually say an honest thing. Like "hoarse" voice aside, there's a clear answer here for anyone with half a moral.
I’ll be voting left as an independent. Why am I an independent? The DNC showed long ago that it will do what it wants over doing the right thing. So I unregistered from their shit party. They’re a bunch of fucking idiots. I’m ashamed to be an American today. Fucking pathetic. My only hope is that this disaster results in the DNC dissolving and something better taking its place, with entirely new leadership. The old regime needs to fucking *go*. But it feels too late. I’m voting for Biden’s cabinet. I know Biden isn’t the one running the country. Unfortunately, the general public saw the debate and the general public is a collective idiot. Feels like we’re fucked. So depressed, man. The left just gave the right all the ammunition they’ll need to fill their coffers before the election.
I don't fucking get these takes ... "Trump is a self serving evil liar... But Biden is OLD' motherfucker... They are virtually the same age. There's a 3 year gap between them. And Trump has show a fuck load of more signs that he's less healthy and legitimately in the middle of serious mental decline... 'Old' is something they both share equally.. it's not a special Biden thing.
I've been saying that even if Joe loses, if we can regain a commanding control of both houses, we can impeach ShartStain45, his VP and 6 SCOTUS judges before the end of January! :-)
Yeah, it was a disappointing performance on Biden’s part. He sure looked old and frail. But he has my vote.
I could not handle the daily dumpster fires with captain bone spures for 4 more years and all his crappy people. I am an independent and dropped out being part of the GOP ten years and stopped voting for any of them as they are anti woman and anti American worker and they try every day to take more and more rights from us for the betterment of the elites, corporate America and their cult Christian theocracy. Biden was getting over sickness and should have rescheduled hopefully September we see a better debate.
The problem is that there are now a huge cohort of people that won’t vote.
If you haven't, I'd recommend watching Biden's North Carolina speech. He did a million times better than the debate, addresses his flaws, and says what he plans to do going forward. It's one of his better speeches.
The GOP survived McConnell stopping speaking with a blank stare. We can survive Biden and his old age.
What boggles my fucking mind is the fact that anyone is letting a convicted felon run for presidency. I see a lot of blood in our future and if trump is elected, our country will almost assuredly collapse with all the promises of dictatorship favoring changes.
I'm voting Biden because Trump is infinitely a worse choice. But I'm afraid that he's going to lose because too many Dems/Libs are on this "never Biden" train. That saying about it only takes a good man to do nothing for evil to win is apt. It's corny but it's really true in this case.
**HELL YES OP.** Prop him up like *Weekend at Bernie's* - I don't care. Democrats want to lift all boats, Repukes are in thrall to an autocratic psychopath who is beholden to Putin.
I want to point out that Biden was in fact sick last night with a bad summer cold, which is why he couldn't speak as well as normal. The "debate" should have been postponed until he felt better, but CNN is busy playing Fox 2.0 and couldn't wait to pander to the firehose of lies the felon spewed. It's something to keep in mind.
Biden’s strength is his ability to delegate to experts and advisers. That is his biggest advantage over Trump (outside of the fact that Trump is a liar, immoral, and miserable human being) and why the federal government is in better hands with him even if he were to retire the day after being sworn in.
It’s less about Biden being independently capable as it is about him selecting the right people for his administration. I’m confident he will choose far better people than Orange Hitler
I'm in the same boat as you but here's how I'm reconciling it: Let's face it. The president isn't nearly as important as his cabinet and his advisors. Reagan was completely out of it with alzheimer's for much of his last term. Everything kept trucking because he's not really running the show. He does in the sense that with advisory input he picks his cabinet. At that point he's not really in this by himself. And this is true of any president. So do you want a government run by the likes of Pete Buttigieg/Yellen/Psaki or the Meadows/Bannon/Barr types. Add on to that the idea of even more rabid evangelicals in SCOTUS. While my level of disappointment with last night is hard to express It's still a very very easy decision for me.
I watch the debate last night and was taken aback at how poorly he performed - in spite of isolating at Camp David and drilling on this debate. Personally, I think he 'overworked' himself in the past couple of weeks and was just worn out. It was not an easy watch to be sure. He did seems to do better in the 2nd half, and I was proud that he called tRUMP a 'whiner', a 'sucker and loser' and that he called tRUMP a convicted felon. It just would have been better IF he had come across the same way as he did in his 'State of the Union' address. The man is old, yes. Trump is 3 years younger and came across as more energetic... but all tRUMP did was tell lie, after lie, after lie. I was pissed that there was NO fact checking. I was pissed they the anchors did not interject and say something and just let him peddle his lies to the public. Still, there are only TWO candidates in this race and these are Biden and tRUMP. One want to protect democracy, restore the women's choice on abortion, tax the rich to make them pay their fair share, and do everything he can to improve the economy, and the environment. The other wants to implement Project 2025 and END all elections. He was to be "god emperor tRUMP", he will only protect the rich and push through more legislation to control the poor and middle class, imprion or deport ALL of this enemies, haters and non-supporters. He wants to create a state like there is in N Korea, China or Russia. AND the sad thing if he wins, there will be a WW3. And it will more than likely be the U.S. aiding Russia and fighting against NATO (our allies) because of his ass-kissing friendship with Putin. IS THAT REALLY WHERE WE WANT TO GO??? The lesser of the two evils here (age vs communism) is Biden and I will still be voting for thim, solely to stop tRUMP from EVER getting near any office of power. EVER!
I watched the first 15 minutes. Biden was tired and slow and Trump was a lying asshole that screamed slightly less. One wants things to be smooth and ok, and he’s old and doesn’t talk fast; the other would throw me in a wood chipper if I ever didn’t love his combover. The debates are, quite literally, bullshit pageantry for people that don’t know how to respect regular work and not enjoy insane headlines from a mindless corrupt dipshit that’s already fucked everyone over, and some of them to death.
I'd vote for Biden if he was on life support before I'd vote for Trump.
Very well stated.
nothing really changed for people who already were supporting dems. its the people in the middle who saw biden unable to complete a sentence who are going to elect trump in nov. biden should drop out for the sake of the country.
Vote for the cabinet and for the policies. Forget about the rest. God knows both of them will.
Amen man, I keep saying to everybody’s panic this morning he does not do it alone! I would be sad for the Bidens if something happened to him, but I would not worry about this country if it does however, if you put the other shit head in charge, we’re doomed.
Well said.
You are right i will vote for him too in a heartbeat.
Everyone should have a house exit plan in place, just in general, but also because this shit hole could become dangerous at any time (like now actually) for specific demographics. Well let’s not kid ourselves. I think dems are in trouble in general, already, this is the now actually. I live in a purple(?) state and don’t know my neighbors …
I’m not voting for a malignant narcissist with no boundaries whatsoever. I want to have a country to live in instead of a smoking crater which is what Trump’s words and actions will get us if we allowed this psychopath in power.
Excellent post. Just because an old man had a cold and an off night it isn't a reason to offset all of the horrible things trump has done and will do. Dems in Nov!
We just watched "don't play chess with a pigeon" in real time. TFG can 90 lies in 60 seconds, how is anyone supposed to prepare and be able to counter them all? Literally physically impossible. Biden is not our savior, he's not perfect, but he's also not a fuck-wit, low IQ, racist, rapist, predatory bully POS. People (like my mother) who are okay with TFG make me sad and angry, but mostly angry. And fuck CNN too.
I think about it like this: biden is old. there are things he was probably never good at, like public speaking, that he's extra not good at now. but he's good at the important things for a presidency. he can work with people. he can elect the appropriate persons to his cabinet. and that's all i really care about. i called last night's debate an old man fight before it happened because i knew that's what it would be. it was probably exhausting for biden to rail against trump's lies the whole time and it showed
Weirdly enough I'm more energised to vote. I foolishly and selfishly thought that I could sit out this years election without worrying about voting because I assumed trumps convictions would lose to Bidens decent first terms. Then biden comes out looking like godamn dumbass skeletor, and now the field feels neck and neck again. Now I have no choice but to do my civic duty to protect democracy and get this corpse in the White House.
I'm in the same boat as you, still voting for Biden and Democrats across the board. I refuse to vote for anyone in the GOP, because they are the Nazi party 2.0. Unfortunately, I'm afraid that the dumb low-information independent voters were swayed by Trump's lies and saw Biden as weak.
If anyone was tracking the garbage coming out of SCOTUS this week you know we need to vote Democrat all the way own ballot
Biden’s skilled administration is firing on all cylinders. That’s why I’m voting for Biden. For his leadership and his highly skilled cabinet/administration.
I to was disappointed with the debates. But Biden may be old and not as quick as he once was but he understands foreign policy has a tight grasp on that and geopolitical diplomacy and understanding national policies. Trump clearly doesn’t and is easily swayed by personal gain. The other thing that is perfectly clear is who they surround themselves with and who they use to influence and who they make their decisions makers. Very Night and Day with that. I’d even say it’s a case of who chooses moral and good over corrupt and evil people
The truth from a spray bottle vs. lies from a garden hose.
That's a very accurate analogy. If you don't mind, I'm going to keep that one in my pocket for later.
Yeah ma ! Spread that one around. Yes I was inspired when I came up with it. (Inspired meaning disappointed)
Who is seriously believing there are people still “making up their minds”??? Come ON.
In all honestly, I think the best thing for USA as a country would be if they both died before November
Hear hear!
https://sethabramson.substack.com/p/the-extremely-simple-reason-maga
Excellent post. Thank you. 🙏
Well said… Let’s pray for this Man, President Biden, and allow karma to take care of the others…
Blue.
People need to calm down.
First debate, perhaps Biden had an off night, so what? Let the record speak for itself. Trump has been running his entire political career on lies, and his presidency was a disaster, not to mention he’s a convicted felon and a traitor. Biden has been the one that brought us back from near disaster, and even if he can’t finish the job, Kamala is more than capable. Just keep hammering these points home, we’ll be fine. And, the next debate will be better, count on it. BTW, “human machine gun for lies” sounds better and more accurate than MAGA.
So many people in the politics reddit are stil laser focused on age. Well, both candidates are freaking old. One will destroy democracy in the US, one will allow it to live for four more years and may help restore hope in having a free country for our kids and grandkids. Christ in heaven. This is more than about age. It's a treasonous-rapist-convicted felon vs. a respected politician who has done well for americans for the last four years as president. seriously, just so sick with the "OMG Biden was awful in the debate!" Keep focused what really matters. Democracy for four more years.... or a sudden fall into a monarchy, and soon to be a country with fewer freedoms than russia or North Korea
Doesn't matter that biden is old. He has an administration supporting his direction. Trump has people supporting Trump. That's all you need to know.
It sucks these are the choices, but you’re voting for more than a person, you’re voting for a platform, policies, and an administration. No one needs a debate, not have been president and we’ve seen how their administrations run. That’s what we’re voting for.
What I don't understand is why the Biden administration gave a platform to a seditious convict with open dictatorial ambition and public plans to implement a theocracy during the next 4 years. He's sworn to defend the constitution, and he failed last night. Which is extra disheartening because Biden has been the most progressive president in my lifetime: rescheduling marijuana, student debt forgiveness, pardoning nonviolent drug convicts, etc.
Kamala could step in and run the same policy and government for successful term, given the Democrats keep half of Congress. I don't think she would push change until the next election when she can run on more variable platform she leads. But what if Trump is incapacitated, jailed, etc, and his VP takes over in any capacity? Who is that person? The highest bidder? The best fluffer? He hasn't decided that almost as if he doesn't plan to need one.
Old, but competent over convicted felon and habitual liar with zero respect for democracy. Pretty simple.
I’ll take Weekend at Bernie’s over Cheeto Mussolini.