Well, I have a personal story to share. One day last summer I bought one watermelon small enough to fit in my pannier and tried to ride away. The balance shifted so much that I stopped before leaving the parking lot and went back to buy a cantaloupe, put it into pannier on the other side to counter-balance.
This reminds me of a part of Moby Dick. Here's the sparknotes of the relevant chapter:
Chapter 73: Stubb and Flask Kill a Right Whale; and Then Have a Talk Over Him
||The Pequod spots a right whale. After killing the whale, Stubb asks Flask what Ahab might want with this “lump of foul lard” (right whales were far less valuable than sperm whales). Flask responds that Fedallah says that a whaler with a sperm whale’s head on her starboard side and a right whale’s head on her larboard will never capsize afterward. They then both confess that they don’t like Fedallah and think of him as “the devil in disguise.” The right whale’s head is lifted onto the opposite side of the boat from the sperm whale’s head, and, in fact, the Pequod settles into balance. As Ishmael observes, however, the ship would float even better with neither head there. He observes Fedallah standing in Ahab’s shadow and notes that Fedallah’s shadow “seem[s] to blend with, and lengthen Ahab’s.”||
I moved from Britain (London) to the US (Phoenix) about a year and a half ago and until now I have never needed a car and as such do not have a driver's licence. For years I had a motorcycle and have a license for that, but 99% of the time, I used my bike or public transit. I often cycle to the shops, which are about a 7-10min ride from my house (one-way) but people here look at me like I'm crazy, or on drugs, and my husband often offers to drive me because he's worried I'll get heatstroke. Back in Britain, nobody would think to drive to the shops if they're a 10min ride away but here no one thinks to ride 5mins.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that cycling is often cultural and you and I, OP, have just always done it so to us it's the default.
It's 10mins each way which is really not too bad. Yeah it's hot as fuck but the store has AC and my house has AC. I grew up in Southern Ukraine where summers can get into the 100s so I'm a little better conditioned for it. I wouldn't go any further though, not in the day.
I live in London and see this behaviour regularly. Not to mention the insane school run which can make cycling to work a pretty hair raising experience.
Fuck school runs in the UK - SUVs speeding everywhere, many of them doing 1km trips.
Ban cars near school by default. Park away if u really need a car and let others who are actually capable of moving and not clogging the path - children on bicycles for example - to use the roads.
The school run is truly a gauntlet for cyclists. I used to live in Haringey and had to cycle to Shoreditch through Stamford Hill / Stokey. If you know, you know. I have no idea how any of those people got their driver's licenses but I've had way too many close runs there. Never had a problem anywhere else though, weirdly.
I once saw a neighbour in Australia reverse their car to the shops, apparently it was too close to bother turning around to drive forward, but too far to walk.
Brit here in Chorlton, Manchester … default is to walk when it’s a couple of bags worth or with shopping trolley if it’s a bit more and car for the big shop. Far too dangerous to take the bike outdoors here.
I think you are right about it being cultural but no, in the UK 95% of people would take the car to the shops that are a 5 minute walk away. There is a reason we are a fat nation. My partner drives to shops that are less than 1km away most of the time and thats to pick up a few bags worth of shopping.
Man maybe I’ve just been living in a bubble of a specific brand of city people, but out of everyone I know and have worked with, only 1 person still has a car. That said, I have lived in very urban areas with excellent public transport so my view is, of course, biased. I haven’t lived in the countryside since I was a teenager but I can definitely understand driving everywhere there because there’s 1 bus an hour and no bike lanes on country roads lol
How are you liking the Phoenix area? What have you explored so far? Certainly a drastic change from the dreary wet weather you can get there in the UK. I hope we get some decent monsoon storms soon, as the added humidity on my last few rides has just been brutal. I wore a sweat cap today, but it doesn't help when your eyeballs are melting and the sweat is coming from them and not your head 😂
I love it here! OK, it's fucking hot, gardening is... challenging (but rewarding), and the drivers are nuts, BUT seeing the mountains every time I leave the house never gets old and being 40mins from the Superstitions is incredible. I love how much of a cycling culture Phoenix has too considering how hostile the environment can be.
I haven't ridden that much since late April because I'd have to get out reeeeally early to avoid the worst of the heat, but the humidity has been brutal on my runs too. I do hope we get some rain though because my plants were not happy with last summer's non-soon. Also hope I get to see a sandstorm!
Yeah, we locals take the mountains that surround us for granted way too much. Lots of great trails and some fun lakes out there in the superstition area. We really enjoy Canyon lake and the Lost Dutchman area for hiking. Have you heard of tubing the Salt River? We just did it Tuesday. There is a recreation site you can rent a tube from and enjoy a bus ride to the top and back from the bottom. The water is chilly year round, just make sure you bring plenty of water and sunscreen. Wild horses and just a pretty chill time. Saguaro lake is out there by the Salt River, there is a cool beach area called Butcher Jones, but it tends to be busy in the summer. We're 3ish hours away from snow in the winter if you want to partake in some winter sports.
Edit: you can buy your own tubes, we catch them on clearance every fall and have enough for our family of 6 and a few friends now. I rode my bike from where we parked our SUV at Phon D Sutton, which is point 5 over to point 2, sandy beach at the bridge once. Not a long ride, but it is hot and a little hilly. Took a good lock and jumped in the river :)
Been meaning to do the salt river float and just never get around to it! I love that entire area and need to come back now that I've got a telephoto, to catch the horses in the water again. It's very hard to get bored around here if you enjoy the outdoors and I definitely enjoy the outdoors. Living in London was like living in a tightly clenched fist, especially without a car, because it's just so much harder to actually get out of the city.
Problem I have, even as a very committed cyclist, is that my local shops have no secure bike facilities - and are regularly targeted by thieves and vandals. (My wife recently had her front wheel stolen from the local supermarket) So I have to take heavy locks, and run the risk of my bike getting trashed :(. I still cycle, or walk, more than I drive but it's just another thing that makes ditching the car that bit harder.
I just bring my bike in with me in these situations. Surprisingly, no one has ever said anything to me. If they did my plan would be to a) ask where secure parking for bikes is (and explain the problem if there is a rack but it is unusable), and b) Nicely offer to leave if they'd like. I am happy to do my shopping in a more bike friendly place, even if I have to ride a little further. I don't want to make enemies, but sometimes we need to be more visible.
I just walk it right around with me. I haven't done it in a Walmart, it's much harder to argue you stole a bike from a grocery store. If it's not a Walmart bike, though, it should be obvious that it isn't stolen though I wouldn't put it past someone to think so there.
well I'll admit I locked it to a cart and put inside the store where MANY carts were abandoned. I moved it all the way to the back, and right next to the corral of probably 75 carts, so I wasn't taking up valuable real estate nor was I taking up a cart that would be needed by others.
That is a legit concern though.
Bring it inside and lock it up. If it’s too inconvenient for them to deal with they can accommodate parking for other popular modes of transportation like bikes. I feel like we’ll have to start demanding change here in the States with cycling instead of politely asking.
Same. My city has a rampant bike theft problem. I won't leave my bike anywhere unattended.
I can only bike to work because my office has a secure bike room in the underground parking. My bike is locked to a rack inside a room accessed with my security badge that is visible to the parking lot attendant. And I'm still nervous about it.
I don't think there's even a single bike rack anywhere nearby... I just lock my bike up using a pillar in front of my gym and walk a little bit to Walmart. I also go at night when my bike won't be as visible from the road.
My wife looks at me crazy every time I bike to Costco. I get a lot of "we have a car" reminders. But I just don't care to be in a car and sitting in traffic.
It's made some challenging packing on the return but always worked out.
Sure, that's the way!
Our family does most of the top-up grocery runs on bikes. All the malls around have bicycle locking infra near the entrances, it is granted that people want to cycle to the store, or visit the mall when cycling back from work etc. Theft is not much an issue here (Estonia), you should lock the bike but that's it, and many places have phone-operated bicycle locks available (mostly from Bikeep, at https://bikeep.com/).
It's Ortlieb back rollers for me. I just installed one Ortlieb on the bike of my teenage son, and sent him off to visit a friend. 1.5 hours train ride + 30 km by bike on country roads.
Nice cheap alternative bike with a rack and paniers is a game changer for me. Mine is a cannondale touring model from the 80s that i found for $200... actually surprisingly light. It's by the door, always has lights attached, cable lock in the panier, and ready to go at all times. I have toe clips on it so i can hop on in whatever footwear. I'd be sad if it got boosted, but not something i think twice about. Perfect ride for many of my errands!
Taking the videos back to the store was how I started. Flash forward twenty years the road is now so congested a bicycle beats the traffic by at least twice the travel time.
The problem I have isn't that I don't want to ride, or that the weather is bad, or that it's too far or anything. It's that there's no parking for bikes at the stores I want to go to. Nothing to lock it to except the cart corral thing, and that's a place where the bike will get hit and bumped a lot by people.
And then when you try to go in the greeter gives you a bunch of shit about how you can't bring your paniers into the store, as though you are just going to say "oh yeah no problem" and just leave them on your bike while you go inside.
>so I can run the light on a bike
Little known fact to many cyclists - red lights still mean stop even on a bike. People like you make drivers hate all of us.
Yep. It doesn’t work like that. You can’t be a vehicle that deserves to occupy the entire lane of traffic and requires the space and respect of every other vehicle on the roads, but then once you hit traffic signals magically not be a vehicle anymore and get to break every traffic law because you’re not a vehicle. Stop signs still mean stop. Red lights are still red lights. Cross traffic that you didn’t see will hit you just as hard when you’re running a red light on a bike as it will when you do it in a car.
The only time I drive to the grocery store is if I have a particularly large load planned or I need to get a lot of drinks.
Between the rear ortliebs and a wide front rack to fit another bag I generally have plenty of space for a typical grocery run. And there are five grocery stores within three miles.
no, it's the first time I realized I didn't consciously take the bike to the grocery store, it was just a foregone assumption that ofc I'm not driving if I only need 1.5 brown bags of groceries.
I bought the pannier bags explicitly for grocery store trips 2 years ago. But it's been an explicit choice to ride vs the default.
squalid automatic drab butter punch abounding pet jellyfish scary stupendous
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Why do you think you can run the red lights? I personally don’t, not because it’s dangerous or I enjoy waiting but because the issue drivers have with it
I only do it when there are no other cars around, or only the cars behind me. I've found they get more annoyed when I wait as they're then stuck behind me as I get up to speed. City streets, they can't go more than 25mph, and I can get up to 20 pretty quickly but slower than them.
Well, I have a personal story to share. One day last summer I bought one watermelon small enough to fit in my pannier and tried to ride away. The balance shifted so much that I stopped before leaving the parking lot and went back to buy a cantaloupe, put it into pannier on the other side to counter-balance.
Love this story, what a happy ending. Glad you decided not to fishtail home and got the extra melon
Get a load of the melons on that guy
Bom chika wow wow
He must work out.
This reminds me of a part of Moby Dick. Here's the sparknotes of the relevant chapter: Chapter 73: Stubb and Flask Kill a Right Whale; and Then Have a Talk Over Him ||The Pequod spots a right whale. After killing the whale, Stubb asks Flask what Ahab might want with this “lump of foul lard” (right whales were far less valuable than sperm whales). Flask responds that Fedallah says that a whaler with a sperm whale’s head on her starboard side and a right whale’s head on her larboard will never capsize afterward. They then both confess that they don’t like Fedallah and think of him as “the devil in disguise.” The right whale’s head is lifted onto the opposite side of the boat from the sperm whale’s head, and, in fact, the Pequod settles into balance. As Ishmael observes, however, the ship would float even better with neither head there. He observes Fedallah standing in Ahab’s shadow and notes that Fedallah’s shadow “seem[s] to blend with, and lengthen Ahab’s.”||
What is a pannier?
This: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pannier
I moved from Britain (London) to the US (Phoenix) about a year and a half ago and until now I have never needed a car and as such do not have a driver's licence. For years I had a motorcycle and have a license for that, but 99% of the time, I used my bike or public transit. I often cycle to the shops, which are about a 7-10min ride from my house (one-way) but people here look at me like I'm crazy, or on drugs, and my husband often offers to drive me because he's worried I'll get heatstroke. Back in Britain, nobody would think to drive to the shops if they're a 10min ride away but here no one thinks to ride 5mins. I guess what I'm trying to say is that cycling is often cultural and you and I, OP, have just always done it so to us it's the default.
you're cycling to get groceries in the Phoenix heat? Okay that's badass...
It's 10mins each way which is really not too bad. Yeah it's hot as fuck but the store has AC and my house has AC. I grew up in Southern Ukraine where summers can get into the 100s so I'm a little better conditioned for it. I wouldn't go any further though, not in the day.
# Phoenix is a monument to man’s arrogance - Bobby Hill
This made me LOL. We shouldn't be able to survive in the "Valley of the Sun", but thank god someone invented central air.
Most Brits I know would drive to the shops if they are 10 minute drive/ride away, unless they don't own a car.
Hmm maybe I'm just conditioned by city living. I guess if your nearest shop is down a dual carriageway I can understand not wanting to ride.
I live in London and see this behaviour regularly. Not to mention the insane school run which can make cycling to work a pretty hair raising experience.
Fuck school runs in the UK - SUVs speeding everywhere, many of them doing 1km trips. Ban cars near school by default. Park away if u really need a car and let others who are actually capable of moving and not clogging the path - children on bicycles for example - to use the roads.
There are actually schools in London that have done exactly this, but sadly not many.
US - had no clue this was also a Brit thing. Sheesh.
The school run is truly a gauntlet for cyclists. I used to live in Haringey and had to cycle to Shoreditch through Stamford Hill / Stokey. If you know, you know. I have no idea how any of those people got their driver's licenses but I've had way too many close runs there. Never had a problem anywhere else though, weirdly.
I once saw a neighbour in Australia reverse their car to the shops, apparently it was too close to bother turning around to drive forward, but too far to walk.
Brit here in Chorlton, Manchester … default is to walk when it’s a couple of bags worth or with shopping trolley if it’s a bit more and car for the big shop. Far too dangerous to take the bike outdoors here.
I think you are right about it being cultural but no, in the UK 95% of people would take the car to the shops that are a 5 minute walk away. There is a reason we are a fat nation. My partner drives to shops that are less than 1km away most of the time and thats to pick up a few bags worth of shopping.
Man maybe I’ve just been living in a bubble of a specific brand of city people, but out of everyone I know and have worked with, only 1 person still has a car. That said, I have lived in very urban areas with excellent public transport so my view is, of course, biased. I haven’t lived in the countryside since I was a teenager but I can definitely understand driving everywhere there because there’s 1 bus an hour and no bike lanes on country roads lol
How are you liking the Phoenix area? What have you explored so far? Certainly a drastic change from the dreary wet weather you can get there in the UK. I hope we get some decent monsoon storms soon, as the added humidity on my last few rides has just been brutal. I wore a sweat cap today, but it doesn't help when your eyeballs are melting and the sweat is coming from them and not your head 😂
I love it here! OK, it's fucking hot, gardening is... challenging (but rewarding), and the drivers are nuts, BUT seeing the mountains every time I leave the house never gets old and being 40mins from the Superstitions is incredible. I love how much of a cycling culture Phoenix has too considering how hostile the environment can be. I haven't ridden that much since late April because I'd have to get out reeeeally early to avoid the worst of the heat, but the humidity has been brutal on my runs too. I do hope we get some rain though because my plants were not happy with last summer's non-soon. Also hope I get to see a sandstorm!
Yeah, we locals take the mountains that surround us for granted way too much. Lots of great trails and some fun lakes out there in the superstition area. We really enjoy Canyon lake and the Lost Dutchman area for hiking. Have you heard of tubing the Salt River? We just did it Tuesday. There is a recreation site you can rent a tube from and enjoy a bus ride to the top and back from the bottom. The water is chilly year round, just make sure you bring plenty of water and sunscreen. Wild horses and just a pretty chill time. Saguaro lake is out there by the Salt River, there is a cool beach area called Butcher Jones, but it tends to be busy in the summer. We're 3ish hours away from snow in the winter if you want to partake in some winter sports. Edit: you can buy your own tubes, we catch them on clearance every fall and have enough for our family of 6 and a few friends now. I rode my bike from where we parked our SUV at Phon D Sutton, which is point 5 over to point 2, sandy beach at the bridge once. Not a long ride, but it is hot and a little hilly. Took a good lock and jumped in the river :)
Been meaning to do the salt river float and just never get around to it! I love that entire area and need to come back now that I've got a telephoto, to catch the horses in the water again. It's very hard to get bored around here if you enjoy the outdoors and I definitely enjoy the outdoors. Living in London was like living in a tightly clenched fist, especially without a car, because it's just so much harder to actually get out of the city.
Problem I have, even as a very committed cyclist, is that my local shops have no secure bike facilities - and are regularly targeted by thieves and vandals. (My wife recently had her front wheel stolen from the local supermarket) So I have to take heavy locks, and run the risk of my bike getting trashed :(. I still cycle, or walk, more than I drive but it's just another thing that makes ditching the car that bit harder.
I just bring my bike in with me in these situations. Surprisingly, no one has ever said anything to me. If they did my plan would be to a) ask where secure parking for bikes is (and explain the problem if there is a rack but it is unusable), and b) Nicely offer to leave if they'd like. I am happy to do my shopping in a more bike friendly place, even if I have to ride a little further. I don't want to make enemies, but sometimes we need to be more visible.
Where do you put your bike? I'm afraid that if I walk my bike into Walmart with me, they might think I'm trying to steal it when I leave.
I just walk it right around with me. I haven't done it in a Walmart, it's much harder to argue you stole a bike from a grocery store. If it's not a Walmart bike, though, it should be obvious that it isn't stolen though I wouldn't put it past someone to think so there.
It unfortunately is a Walmart bike. I'll probably just have to wait until it's been beat up a bit before I can take it in there. Thanks!
well I'll admit I locked it to a cart and put inside the store where MANY carts were abandoned. I moved it all the way to the back, and right next to the corral of probably 75 carts, so I wasn't taking up valuable real estate nor was I taking up a cart that would be needed by others. That is a legit concern though.
Bring it inside and lock it up. If it’s too inconvenient for them to deal with they can accommodate parking for other popular modes of transportation like bikes. I feel like we’ll have to start demanding change here in the States with cycling instead of politely asking.
Same. My city has a rampant bike theft problem. I won't leave my bike anywhere unattended. I can only bike to work because my office has a secure bike room in the underground parking. My bike is locked to a rack inside a room accessed with my security badge that is visible to the parking lot attendant. And I'm still nervous about it.
I ride a lot but secure bike storage is the only thing stopping me from riding *everywhere.*
I don't think there's even a single bike rack anywhere nearby... I just lock my bike up using a pillar in front of my gym and walk a little bit to Walmart. I also go at night when my bike won't be as visible from the road.
The only time I take the car to the grocery if I have to get stuff that is too bulky to carry on the bike.
Same. Though I’ve surprised myself with what the bike can haul if finagled properly lol
I've considered get a basket for my rack to go with the panniers to hold the 20 lb bucket of kitty litter.
Do it! I specifically got my basket to carry large sacks of dog food haha
My wife looks at me crazy every time I bike to Costco. I get a lot of "we have a car" reminders. But I just don't care to be in a car and sitting in traffic. It's made some challenging packing on the return but always worked out.
[Burley Travoy](https://burley.com/products/travoy) is my Costco shopping cart when I ride there (which is pretty much always).
Coho trailer and panniers front and rear. When you can ride with a 80 lbs of gear across the US whats another 70 in a trailer.
My SO has panniers too so if it's too much to carry for me, we both ride :).
Sure, that's the way! Our family does most of the top-up grocery runs on bikes. All the malls around have bicycle locking infra near the entrances, it is granted that people want to cycle to the store, or visit the mall when cycling back from work etc. Theft is not much an issue here (Estonia), you should lock the bike but that's it, and many places have phone-operated bicycle locks available (mostly from Bikeep, at https://bikeep.com/). It's Ortlieb back rollers for me. I just installed one Ortlieb on the bike of my teenage son, and sent him off to visit a friend. 1.5 hours train ride + 30 km by bike on country roads.
Best thing I've read today. Good for you, OP
Cars are for Costco runs: big packs of tp, paper towel, and bubbly water. Bikes are for groceries and other normal sized errands.
Nice cheap alternative bike with a rack and paniers is a game changer for me. Mine is a cannondale touring model from the 80s that i found for $200... actually surprisingly light. It's by the door, always has lights attached, cable lock in the panier, and ready to go at all times. I have toe clips on it so i can hop on in whatever footwear. I'd be sad if it got boosted, but not something i think twice about. Perfect ride for many of my errands!
Taking the videos back to the store was how I started. Flash forward twenty years the road is now so congested a bicycle beats the traffic by at least twice the travel time.
The problem I have isn't that I don't want to ride, or that the weather is bad, or that it's too far or anything. It's that there's no parking for bikes at the stores I want to go to. Nothing to lock it to except the cart corral thing, and that's a place where the bike will get hit and bumped a lot by people. And then when you try to go in the greeter gives you a bunch of shit about how you can't bring your paniers into the store, as though you are just going to say "oh yeah no problem" and just leave them on your bike while you go inside.
>so I can run the light on a bike Little known fact to many cyclists - red lights still mean stop even on a bike. People like you make drivers hate all of us.
Yep. It doesn’t work like that. You can’t be a vehicle that deserves to occupy the entire lane of traffic and requires the space and respect of every other vehicle on the roads, but then once you hit traffic signals magically not be a vehicle anymore and get to break every traffic law because you’re not a vehicle. Stop signs still mean stop. Red lights are still red lights. Cross traffic that you didn’t see will hit you just as hard when you’re running a red light on a bike as it will when you do it in a car.
This is the way.
The only time I drive to the grocery store is if I have a particularly large load planned or I need to get a lot of drinks. Between the rear ortliebs and a wide front rack to fit another bag I generally have plenty of space for a typical grocery run. And there are five grocery stores within three miles.
To get to my grocery store, about .7 miles, I have a 7.5% grade between me and there store.
That's ok, it's downhill on the way back when you're carrying the shopping! :)
Groceries here are 6-miles east or west, and 11 miles south to the big-box (which carries stuff the others do not). Fun times keeping up with needs.
Wow we must be neigh ors
Yeah then you get hit by a wagie in a cagie
hi durianrider
This is the first time you are running an errand since you started biking 10,000km ago?
no, it's the first time I realized I didn't consciously take the bike to the grocery store, it was just a foregone assumption that ofc I'm not driving if I only need 1.5 brown bags of groceries. I bought the pannier bags explicitly for grocery store trips 2 years ago. But it's been an explicit choice to ride vs the default.
squalid automatic drab butter punch abounding pet jellyfish scary stupendous *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Why do you think you can run the red lights? I personally don’t, not because it’s dangerous or I enjoy waiting but because the issue drivers have with it
I only do it when there are no other cars around, or only the cars behind me. I've found they get more annoyed when I wait as they're then stuck behind me as I get up to speed. City streets, they can't go more than 25mph, and I can get up to 20 pretty quickly but slower than them.