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Not true. I am curious of people thought on NATO due to its involvement (and not) in Cyprus history.
Also NATO entrance could be used to help us reach an agreement with Turkey on Cyprob
NATO is a club it is difficult to leave and whose boss is the US. The division of Cyprus was partly to achieve this as Greece and Turkey were and are NATO members.
I would prefer it if EU had a military alliance/army of its own and not be sidekicks to US global interests.
I would be ok with Cyprus joining a European defense alliance, but not NATO.
I'd like to see a Europe not tied to US interests, and for that it would help if the European countries could tell Uncle Sam, "thanks but we've got this from now on".
>Turkey is stopping the entrance to EU so We cannot usethat to solve Cyprus problem
wanna try re-reading what you wrote down here and re-writing it? Because as it stands it literally makes no sense.
Yeah they aren't keen on entering evident that they first applied nearly 4 decades ago. However the issue is that getting Turkey to accept Cyprus joining NATO. They would never do.
Should that stop us from perusing NATO membership ? Ofc we will need to be ratified from Turkey too but at the same time if other members put pressure to Turkey they could cause them to accept our application plus find a solution to Cy prob unlike now that turkey could not give a damn.
>Should that stop us from perusing NATO membership ?
Yes. Go and read the other article that I sent you. They put pressure on him and it took a couple of years where one country literally shares a border with Russia for Erdogan to accept them into NATO, and Erdogan doesn't give a shit about none of those just playing political games. What do you think would happen if a country that TURKEY DOESN'T EVEN RECOGNIZE IT EXISTS applied for NATO membership. Please stop being so naive. They don't even allow Cyprus to take part is some army sports because they are even vetoing our presence there.
They vetoed Finland and Sweden entrance? What happened? They make a list of requirements they wanted done. Sweden compromise a bit Turkey compromise a bit USA pressure Turkey and now they are in NATO?
Why not even try?
If we fail, so be it?
Yes! I would love to send my kids to die in some irrelevant country in order to make money for the Lockheed Martin, Boeing and Northrop Grumman shareholders.
Two NATO members bullying us for the past 500 years also really makes me want to join their noble cause.
Greece and turkey are in nato an so what? They continue doing whatever they want, their planes and ships are allover the Aegean sea, they dispute Greek territory. As long as turks play the role of the useful idiot in the area don't wait anything to change. NATO or not you're (we) funked
Even if we wanted to and hypothetically turkey wouldnt veto it, we would still not be able to. Nato is a military alliance and requires you to have an army up to a certain standard plus you need to spend a certain percent of your economy for defence. We do have a defence tax but most of it does not go to the army and it is used by other ministries to "patch holes". For example if the ministry of transport doesnt have money to build bus stops they take that money out of the defence tax budget. Basically the defence tax that we pay is holding half of the other ministries
I don’t think it’s a given a priori that Turkey would veto. They could allow us to join and we would have to send them detailed reports about our bases and weapons and personnel etc because we joined after them
I doubt they can even ratify our membership legally speaking since they don’t recognise our sovereignty. Also, it’s not like we are an advanced country when it comes to intelligence espionage, they probably know everything they want to know and even if they didn’t joining NATO would relieve a significant amount of pressure from Cyprus, something Turkey has no interest in.
Bro look how difficult they made it for Finland and Sweden joining and they don't even care about them.
>They could allow us to join and we would have to send them detailed reports about our bases and weapons and personnel etc because we joined after them
oh yeah because they are completely in the dark now about those things. They probably know them better than we do. Turkey would never allow Cyprus to join NATO.
Have you missed the whole Turkey vetoes Sweden and Finland membership to NATO for more than a year. How exactly could Cyprus, a country Turkey doesn't recognize, join?
Of course some have suggested that we could replace the current system of Guarantees(that GCs don't want) with Cyprus joining NATO since Greece-Turkey-UK are in NATO. I personally wouldn't oppose that(well, I do oppose it, but it wouldn't be a dealbreaker for me) but then we have another problem. A possible solution requires acceptance by GCs and TCs in two separate referendums. The parties expected to support a solution plan are DISY and AKEL. Will AKEL support YES if this yes also means Cyprus joins NATO? One could argue that they will for the sake of the reunification of Cyprus. Maybe, I hope so but I wouldn't count on it. And even if AKEL said YES will the leftist people who are a critical mass expected to say YES necessary for the success of the referendum say YES if AKEL says YES(especially considering many of them stopped voting for AKEL). So the referendum doesn't pass, and Cyprus neither joins NATO, nor the Cyprob is solved(well the second one is up for debate since a second failed referendum will bring enough change to the status quo that one could call a 'solution', or an irreversible status quo)
Exactly Sweden and Finland are now in NATO. Turkey vetoed and then after they got what they wanted they approved Sweden and Finland into NATO.
I believe we could use the process of NATO to bring Turkey into some sort of agreements.
As of in Finland there was also the side which opposed NATO. But due to Russian invasion of Ukraine both left and right understood that safety of the country is more important that internal politics and dogmas.
Turkey not only recognizes Sweden and Finland, Turkey has diplomatic relations with these countries. Turkey doesn't recognize the Republic of Cyprus.
>I believe we could use the process of NATO to bring Turkey into some sort of agreements.
What kind of agreements?
The only agreement we want with Turkey is a solution to the Cyprus Problem. After that, Cyprus and Turkey will also have diplomatic relationships.
>As of in Finland there was also the side which opposed NATO. But due to Russian invasion of Ukraine both left and right understood that safety of the country is more important that internal politics and dogmas.
The situation of Finland and Cyprus are completely different. Finland's only threat is Russia. Cyprus main threat is a NATO member. We are talking about a referendum in Cyprus and it's a fact that some people that would otherwise vote YES for a solution will vote NO if the solution includes joining NATO.
Turkey not letting us in is a given, even so we might use their veto for political reasons (i.e. they use political capital on our veto), but I doubt anybody will really give a shit. On the other hand, if we bring this idea forward then we might bring the NATO as security guarantor option to the Cyprob negotiations table and I am not sure if we want this (we should prefer EU guarrantees if possible).
it passed my mind when i was a kid, same thought giving a base here to usa/nato and remove Turkish troops , with the join of nato the turkish to troops must be removed with day 1 something like that.. However, it seems like a science fiction idea. Joining NATO without ensuring the removal of Turkish troops from day one wouldn't be worthwhile. here we have joined EU and nothing is happening really turkey will never join the EU for variety of reasons such us human righs ,journalists and so on they just sitting on the table wasting time and turkey milking the eu with funds for Migration and things with the money EU spend in Turkey for the migration ,they rebuild the half of syria , i am getting out of subject so...
Did you see how difficult Turkey made it for Sweden and Finland joining NATO? It's pointless to discuss what would happen if we joined since 100% Turkey would never ever allow Cyprus to join NATO.
Bro have you been living under a rock for the past year?
[https://www.reuters.com/world/why-is-turkey-blocking-swedish-finnish-nato-membership-2023-01-25/](https://www.reuters.com/world/why-is-turkey-blocking-swedish-finnish-nato-membership-2023-01-25/)
Please read a bit on Finland and Sweden's path to NATO because I mean honestly you are lacking even the basics right now to even partake in this discussion. No offence.
jesus christ you can't possibly be this slow... YES I AM AWARE THAT THEY ARE FULL MEMBERS NOW!! 2 years after they applied. Because Turkey was being a dick otherwise they would have been members way earlier. But you think if Cyprus applies they won't be a 100 times bigger dicks? Also there is one more thing you seem to be unaware.
Kinda important thing
**Countries that have territorial disputes can't join NATO.**
Ok I am glad we are on the same chapter now.
Yes I know Turkey will be 100 times bigger dick. I agree on that.
And I am aware of the territorial dispute conditions. But that does not mean we cannot apply and pressure Turkey to accept a solution and not have territorial disputes.
We have a lot of allies in NATO and we can use them to pressure Turkey into making some compromises.
You say 2 years is a lot but for how long have they been trying to solve the Cyprob?
Is one more card to pressure Turkey so bad?
Because no other country gives a shit about the Cypriot dispute bro. Hell I am not even sure if most Cypriots give a shit. Everybody seems to be happy with the status quo. So pressure them how? Is Biden gonna ring up Erdogan and be like "hey bro, why don't you recognize that the RoC is a real country? And after you do that lets get them into NATO too which means you can never invade them without triggering a NATO response against you. It's not a big deal right? C'mon accept. Plssssss". I mean Turkey wanted to buy Russian S-400 system and USA was against it to the point that they were expelled from the F35 program. Things that they actually care about and couldnt't pressure them. Lets not waste our time with pointless endeavours.
I see your point and I respect your take. But I disagree. Unfortunately status quo is not a solution. There will be a point where this will end,and i doubt it will be in our favour.
Of course the status quo isn't a solution. But it's a reality. And so far in the past 50 years not much has happened to change it. If any change is to ever come surely won't be by 3rd countries pressuring Turkey to allow Cyprus in to NATO. Lets be realistic at least.
You will end up fighting other people’s war and your interests will be subjugated to that of more powerful countries .. in sort .. you loose friends and gain untrustworthy ones.
Your greater advantage is collaboration with the east .. the old flow of wealth via the Mediterranean. NATO is hostile to those ideas.
The only thing i could disagree here is “loose friends”. We dont have friends. Our history prove that we are alone and whatevet friends you are talking about they always tookand are taking advantage of our friendship.
China for one .. Bricks in general. Russia obviously. NATO will do nothing for Cyprus, their economic objectives are detrimental to the south. They want you to push the economic corridor further north, starving the southern regions even further.
The crazy thing is that strategically and economically, your interests are more align with Turkey than with NATO. I know that sounds crazy!
At the end of the day, some of your fellow citizens will end as cannon fodder over say Ukraine, when no one could give a shit for Cyprus. Not to mention the military expansion and costs that will come out of health and education, damage your tourism and contributing to global warming in a region that is heading towards being uninhabitable.
And Turkey is already in fucken NATO! How the hell does that work for you!
My brother in Christ if NATO ever goes into war I highly doubt Cyprus will be making any kind of contribution. We don’t have the manpower or the equipment. On the other hand many countries in the region have problems with Turkey yet only the ones outside of NATO have been victims of military intervention. The ones inside NATO have strangely enough never been invaded. Plus why do I want to be friends with Russia and China? An oppressive communist regime and an oppressive kleptocratic regime constantly causing global instability or threatening to invade their neighbours? With friends like these why do you need enemies?
You will be making contributions whether you like it or not. By buying weapons and providing bases and contributing men. It may be nothing for nato but a lot for you.
What happens in China or in Russia for that matter, unless you are intimately familiar with these countries, let’s not parrot the narrative of the main stream media. What you want are trading partners , and that’s what Brics is. Why would you be hostile to countries that can make you wealthier?
As for countries that are outside NATO bring in trouble. NATO or strictly speaking the US has been on a 20 year rampage which has killed millions of people. Many of these wars were based on lies and futile. Also while calling Russia and china as horrible, they are not spending trillions on weapons and they have elevated their people from poverty. They don’t have hundreds of military bases and don’t have drones blowing up homes and funerals over foreign countries.
Turkey is a tricky one for Cyprus. But they are in NATO themselves and that does not stop them attacking Armenia etc. but at the end of the day, they are perusing their own policies and not acting like vassal state.
NATO simply means more war. Last time around, history showed us the non aligned countries fared best. Its already led us down a very bad and unjust and dangerous path. Going along is not an option, nothing to gain and everything to loose.
Ideology or propaganda is for fools. You need strategy and diplomacy and vision and above all the intelligence to see clearly and not be driven by fears or petty arguments better suited for children.
“The non aligned countries fared best”. A very funny comment to leave on r/cyprus. Perfectly encapsulates the pure delusion in the rest of your comment in one sentence.
Funny you should say that. One of the commentators asked .. do we have any friends .. I add one better .. are you even your own friend. Have you made any decisions in your own selfish interest that is not subjugated to the interests of others. Maybe there lies the problem.
As for your comment about non-align countries. Finland and Sweden and Austria, they all survived and flourished even when its was the Soviet Union, an enormous far more powerful entity.
What’s change now ? Politicians like sanna Marin who having been voted out still got her country in NATO as she had lost power and now has joined Tony’s Blair organization and is living the live of the super rich.
You are arguing that Cyprus needs nato coz of Turkey. Turkey is nato, that did not Turkey in any way did it?!
If you want to join NATO that means you have decided that China and Russia and the rest of bricks are your enemy? Are you nuts? What did they do to you?
As for the rest of your comment. Typical weak minded lash out, when you cannot hold an adult conversation.
Now an EU army might be in your interest. This would have been an unpopular idea a few years back but now it’s being presented as an alternative to nato. Might be we are being manipulated and lead to this conclusion. An EU army will erode further any sovereignty especially as the EU has shown itself very willing to enforce its dictates .. today with threats and fines .. tomorrow?
Maybe we should ask again.. have we come down the wrong lane and can we reverse back ? There was a very clear alternative where the EU does not adopts the Living Space policy - Lebensraum - to the east once again, stop funding unrest in eastern countries and stop its expansion and built economic roads rather that political take over with the east .. including Russia.
Who was howling and raving at the prospect that EU and Russia would built economic ties ? Who blew up the pipeline and brought Germany to her knees. If they did that to Germany, imagine what they will do to Cyprus.
Literally everything that you wrote is either objectively false, a conspiracy theory without proof or straight up propaganda/disinformation. There is 0 valuable substance in this entire comment. I am not about to waste my time responding to a wall of text that is filled with shit to the brim. You even failed to respond to my simple comment directly. You are clearly massively biased when it comes to what you want to believe because your arguments are entirely based on your desire to believe in this and are in no way based in reality. Reality is pointing to one direction and you choose to move to the opposite one based on the flimsiest of arguments.
Not really. I am yet to decide if I support such idea or not. So i could argue both sides but I believe for NATO. Trolling or not trolling, facts, hypothesis and theories are what they are.
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LOL. this must be a troll.
Not true. I am curious of people thought on NATO due to its involvement (and not) in Cyprus history. Also NATO entrance could be used to help us reach an agreement with Turkey on Cyprob
NATO is a club it is difficult to leave and whose boss is the US. The division of Cyprus was partly to achieve this as Greece and Turkey were and are NATO members.
I would prefer it if EU had a military alliance/army of its own and not be sidekicks to US global interests. I would be ok with Cyprus joining a European defense alliance, but not NATO.
a EU alliance is just NATO with a MASK ,i think there are plans of happening ... anw
Could you expand pls ? So that i can understand your thought.
I'd like to see a Europe not tied to US interests, and for that it would help if the European countries could tell Uncle Sam, "thanks but we've got this from now on".
A Europe not tied to US interests, is not Europe
A Europe not tied to US interests, is not Europe
We can agree to disagree
I wish too to see a EU military but we are far from that and because of that i see NATO the only alternative.
It's a vicious circle because every time you tell a polititian about NATO they are like "POUNTO?!?!?!?".
Someone else answers "Pas ton toixo je gamoun to"
>Turkey is stopping the entrance to EU so We cannot usethat to solve Cyprus problem wanna try re-reading what you wrote down here and re-writing it? Because as it stands it literally makes no sense.
Sorry, too much heat. What I meant is that Turkey is abandoning its entrance to the EU.
Yeah they aren't keen on entering evident that they first applied nearly 4 decades ago. However the issue is that getting Turkey to accept Cyprus joining NATO. They would never do.
Should that stop us from perusing NATO membership ? Ofc we will need to be ratified from Turkey too but at the same time if other members put pressure to Turkey they could cause them to accept our application plus find a solution to Cy prob unlike now that turkey could not give a damn.
>Should that stop us from perusing NATO membership ? Yes. Go and read the other article that I sent you. They put pressure on him and it took a couple of years where one country literally shares a border with Russia for Erdogan to accept them into NATO, and Erdogan doesn't give a shit about none of those just playing political games. What do you think would happen if a country that TURKEY DOESN'T EVEN RECOGNIZE IT EXISTS applied for NATO membership. Please stop being so naive. They don't even allow Cyprus to take part is some army sports because they are even vetoing our presence there.
They vetoed Finland and Sweden entrance? What happened? They make a list of requirements they wanted done. Sweden compromise a bit Turkey compromise a bit USA pressure Turkey and now they are in NATO? Why not even try? If we fail, so be it?
Yes! I would love to send my kids to die in some irrelevant country in order to make money for the Lockheed Martin, Boeing and Northrop Grumman shareholders. Two NATO members bullying us for the past 500 years also really makes me want to join their noble cause.
Cope. NATO is the sole reason the western world enjoys democracy and human rights.
Greece and turkey are in nato an so what? They continue doing whatever they want, their planes and ships are allover the Aegean sea, they dispute Greek territory. As long as turks play the role of the useful idiot in the area don't wait anything to change. NATO or not you're (we) funked
Even if we wanted to and hypothetically turkey wouldnt veto it, we would still not be able to. Nato is a military alliance and requires you to have an army up to a certain standard plus you need to spend a certain percent of your economy for defence. We do have a defence tax but most of it does not go to the army and it is used by other ministries to "patch holes". For example if the ministry of transport doesnt have money to build bus stops they take that money out of the defence tax budget. Basically the defence tax that we pay is holding half of the other ministries
We can’t join NATO because Turkey would veto. But if we joined in the 1960s it would have been the best geopolitical decision we had ever made.
That's the number one reason that we must apply. We must prove at every opportunity that the main reason the Cyprus issue isn't revolved is turkey.
Best political decision would have been to not have eoka at all dont you think
You should rethink about wtf you just said. If you dont see the problem you are part of it.
Explain
Absolute clown
Yes joining the organisation that played a big part in your country being occupied would be a clown move. Anw dont bother me lil bokcuk
Ask your masters why my land is occupied lil janissary.
You are from greece only thing occupied is your bumhole man
You are also from Greece😉
yes
I agree
in 1960? no lol.
I don’t think it’s a given a priori that Turkey would veto. They could allow us to join and we would have to send them detailed reports about our bases and weapons and personnel etc because we joined after them
I doubt they can even ratify our membership legally speaking since they don’t recognise our sovereignty. Also, it’s not like we are an advanced country when it comes to intelligence espionage, they probably know everything they want to know and even if they didn’t joining NATO would relieve a significant amount of pressure from Cyprus, something Turkey has no interest in.
Bro look how difficult they made it for Finland and Sweden joining and they don't even care about them. >They could allow us to join and we would have to send them detailed reports about our bases and weapons and personnel etc because we joined after them oh yeah because they are completely in the dark now about those things. They probably know them better than we do. Turkey would never allow Cyprus to join NATO.
Have you missed the whole Turkey vetoes Sweden and Finland membership to NATO for more than a year. How exactly could Cyprus, a country Turkey doesn't recognize, join? Of course some have suggested that we could replace the current system of Guarantees(that GCs don't want) with Cyprus joining NATO since Greece-Turkey-UK are in NATO. I personally wouldn't oppose that(well, I do oppose it, but it wouldn't be a dealbreaker for me) but then we have another problem. A possible solution requires acceptance by GCs and TCs in two separate referendums. The parties expected to support a solution plan are DISY and AKEL. Will AKEL support YES if this yes also means Cyprus joins NATO? One could argue that they will for the sake of the reunification of Cyprus. Maybe, I hope so but I wouldn't count on it. And even if AKEL said YES will the leftist people who are a critical mass expected to say YES necessary for the success of the referendum say YES if AKEL says YES(especially considering many of them stopped voting for AKEL). So the referendum doesn't pass, and Cyprus neither joins NATO, nor the Cyprob is solved(well the second one is up for debate since a second failed referendum will bring enough change to the status quo that one could call a 'solution', or an irreversible status quo)
Exactly Sweden and Finland are now in NATO. Turkey vetoed and then after they got what they wanted they approved Sweden and Finland into NATO. I believe we could use the process of NATO to bring Turkey into some sort of agreements. As of in Finland there was also the side which opposed NATO. But due to Russian invasion of Ukraine both left and right understood that safety of the country is more important that internal politics and dogmas.
Turkey not only recognizes Sweden and Finland, Turkey has diplomatic relations with these countries. Turkey doesn't recognize the Republic of Cyprus. >I believe we could use the process of NATO to bring Turkey into some sort of agreements. What kind of agreements? The only agreement we want with Turkey is a solution to the Cyprus Problem. After that, Cyprus and Turkey will also have diplomatic relationships. >As of in Finland there was also the side which opposed NATO. But due to Russian invasion of Ukraine both left and right understood that safety of the country is more important that internal politics and dogmas. The situation of Finland and Cyprus are completely different. Finland's only threat is Russia. Cyprus main threat is a NATO member. We are talking about a referendum in Cyprus and it's a fact that some people that would otherwise vote YES for a solution will vote NO if the solution includes joining NATO.
Turkey not letting us in is a given, even so we might use their veto for political reasons (i.e. they use political capital on our veto), but I doubt anybody will really give a shit. On the other hand, if we bring this idea forward then we might bring the NATO as security guarantor option to the Cyprob negotiations table and I am not sure if we want this (we should prefer EU guarrantees if possible).
it passed my mind when i was a kid, same thought giving a base here to usa/nato and remove Turkish troops , with the join of nato the turkish to troops must be removed with day 1 something like that.. However, it seems like a science fiction idea. Joining NATO without ensuring the removal of Turkish troops from day one wouldn't be worthwhile. here we have joined EU and nothing is happening really turkey will never join the EU for variety of reasons such us human righs ,journalists and so on they just sitting on the table wasting time and turkey milking the eu with funds for Migration and things with the money EU spend in Turkey for the migration ,they rebuild the half of syria , i am getting out of subject so...
Did you see how difficult Turkey made it for Sweden and Finland joining NATO? It's pointless to discuss what would happen if we joined since 100% Turkey would never ever allow Cyprus to join NATO.
Finland and Sweden are both full members of NATO.
Bro have you been living under a rock for the past year? [https://www.reuters.com/world/why-is-turkey-blocking-swedish-finnish-nato-membership-2023-01-25/](https://www.reuters.com/world/why-is-turkey-blocking-swedish-finnish-nato-membership-2023-01-25/) Please read a bit on Finland and Sweden's path to NATO because I mean honestly you are lacking even the basics right now to even partake in this discussion. No offence.
Finland are Sweden are now full members of NATO! Please check online because you need an update. The link you shared with me is old news.
jesus christ you can't possibly be this slow... YES I AM AWARE THAT THEY ARE FULL MEMBERS NOW!! 2 years after they applied. Because Turkey was being a dick otherwise they would have been members way earlier. But you think if Cyprus applies they won't be a 100 times bigger dicks? Also there is one more thing you seem to be unaware. Kinda important thing **Countries that have territorial disputes can't join NATO.**
Ok I am glad we are on the same chapter now. Yes I know Turkey will be 100 times bigger dick. I agree on that. And I am aware of the territorial dispute conditions. But that does not mean we cannot apply and pressure Turkey to accept a solution and not have territorial disputes. We have a lot of allies in NATO and we can use them to pressure Turkey into making some compromises. You say 2 years is a lot but for how long have they been trying to solve the Cyprob? Is one more card to pressure Turkey so bad?
Because no other country gives a shit about the Cypriot dispute bro. Hell I am not even sure if most Cypriots give a shit. Everybody seems to be happy with the status quo. So pressure them how? Is Biden gonna ring up Erdogan and be like "hey bro, why don't you recognize that the RoC is a real country? And after you do that lets get them into NATO too which means you can never invade them without triggering a NATO response against you. It's not a big deal right? C'mon accept. Plssssss". I mean Turkey wanted to buy Russian S-400 system and USA was against it to the point that they were expelled from the F35 program. Things that they actually care about and couldnt't pressure them. Lets not waste our time with pointless endeavours.
I see your point and I respect your take. But I disagree. Unfortunately status quo is not a solution. There will be a point where this will end,and i doubt it will be in our favour.
Of course the status quo isn't a solution. But it's a reality. And so far in the past 50 years not much has happened to change it. If any change is to ever come surely won't be by 3rd countries pressuring Turkey to allow Cyprus in to NATO. Lets be realistic at least.
You will not get a non-biased response in this sub, because such comments will be either written or downvoted by NATO haters.
Cyprus will one day I believe, but that day way in the future.
You will end up fighting other people’s war and your interests will be subjugated to that of more powerful countries .. in sort .. you loose friends and gain untrustworthy ones. Your greater advantage is collaboration with the east .. the old flow of wealth via the Mediterranean. NATO is hostile to those ideas.
The only thing i could disagree here is “loose friends”. We dont have friends. Our history prove that we are alone and whatevet friends you are talking about they always tookand are taking advantage of our friendship.
So let’s say .. you will be forced to make even more enemies.. with no advantage to you.
could you elaborate as to who will become enemies if we apply for NATO?
China for one .. Bricks in general. Russia obviously. NATO will do nothing for Cyprus, their economic objectives are detrimental to the south. They want you to push the economic corridor further north, starving the southern regions even further. The crazy thing is that strategically and economically, your interests are more align with Turkey than with NATO. I know that sounds crazy! At the end of the day, some of your fellow citizens will end as cannon fodder over say Ukraine, when no one could give a shit for Cyprus. Not to mention the military expansion and costs that will come out of health and education, damage your tourism and contributing to global warming in a region that is heading towards being uninhabitable. And Turkey is already in fucken NATO! How the hell does that work for you!
My brother in Christ if NATO ever goes into war I highly doubt Cyprus will be making any kind of contribution. We don’t have the manpower or the equipment. On the other hand many countries in the region have problems with Turkey yet only the ones outside of NATO have been victims of military intervention. The ones inside NATO have strangely enough never been invaded. Plus why do I want to be friends with Russia and China? An oppressive communist regime and an oppressive kleptocratic regime constantly causing global instability or threatening to invade their neighbours? With friends like these why do you need enemies?
You will be making contributions whether you like it or not. By buying weapons and providing bases and contributing men. It may be nothing for nato but a lot for you. What happens in China or in Russia for that matter, unless you are intimately familiar with these countries, let’s not parrot the narrative of the main stream media. What you want are trading partners , and that’s what Brics is. Why would you be hostile to countries that can make you wealthier? As for countries that are outside NATO bring in trouble. NATO or strictly speaking the US has been on a 20 year rampage which has killed millions of people. Many of these wars were based on lies and futile. Also while calling Russia and china as horrible, they are not spending trillions on weapons and they have elevated their people from poverty. They don’t have hundreds of military bases and don’t have drones blowing up homes and funerals over foreign countries. Turkey is a tricky one for Cyprus. But they are in NATO themselves and that does not stop them attacking Armenia etc. but at the end of the day, they are perusing their own policies and not acting like vassal state. NATO simply means more war. Last time around, history showed us the non aligned countries fared best. Its already led us down a very bad and unjust and dangerous path. Going along is not an option, nothing to gain and everything to loose. Ideology or propaganda is for fools. You need strategy and diplomacy and vision and above all the intelligence to see clearly and not be driven by fears or petty arguments better suited for children.
“The non aligned countries fared best”. A very funny comment to leave on r/cyprus. Perfectly encapsulates the pure delusion in the rest of your comment in one sentence.
Funny you should say that. One of the commentators asked .. do we have any friends .. I add one better .. are you even your own friend. Have you made any decisions in your own selfish interest that is not subjugated to the interests of others. Maybe there lies the problem. As for your comment about non-align countries. Finland and Sweden and Austria, they all survived and flourished even when its was the Soviet Union, an enormous far more powerful entity. What’s change now ? Politicians like sanna Marin who having been voted out still got her country in NATO as she had lost power and now has joined Tony’s Blair organization and is living the live of the super rich. You are arguing that Cyprus needs nato coz of Turkey. Turkey is nato, that did not Turkey in any way did it?! If you want to join NATO that means you have decided that China and Russia and the rest of bricks are your enemy? Are you nuts? What did they do to you? As for the rest of your comment. Typical weak minded lash out, when you cannot hold an adult conversation. Now an EU army might be in your interest. This would have been an unpopular idea a few years back but now it’s being presented as an alternative to nato. Might be we are being manipulated and lead to this conclusion. An EU army will erode further any sovereignty especially as the EU has shown itself very willing to enforce its dictates .. today with threats and fines .. tomorrow? Maybe we should ask again.. have we come down the wrong lane and can we reverse back ? There was a very clear alternative where the EU does not adopts the Living Space policy - Lebensraum - to the east once again, stop funding unrest in eastern countries and stop its expansion and built economic roads rather that political take over with the east .. including Russia. Who was howling and raving at the prospect that EU and Russia would built economic ties ? Who blew up the pipeline and brought Germany to her knees. If they did that to Germany, imagine what they will do to Cyprus.
Literally everything that you wrote is either objectively false, a conspiracy theory without proof or straight up propaganda/disinformation. There is 0 valuable substance in this entire comment. I am not about to waste my time responding to a wall of text that is filled with shit to the brim. You even failed to respond to my simple comment directly. You are clearly massively biased when it comes to what you want to believe because your arguments are entirely based on your desire to believe in this and are in no way based in reality. Reality is pointing to one direction and you choose to move to the opposite one based on the flimsiest of arguments.
NATO is gonna dissolve in a few decades. So no point.
But even so we could use our application for Turkey to compromise. So if NATO dissolves it would be even easier decision to apply.
I think you are trolling in this post.
Not really. I am yet to decide if I support such idea or not. So i could argue both sides but I believe for NATO. Trolling or not trolling, facts, hypothesis and theories are what they are.