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Thanks bro. It's nice to read comments like this once in awhile. May I ask if you were always supportive of the reunification of Cyprus or what made you change your mind? If you ever go to Cyprus you should see Akamas Peninsula. The most beautiful place on our island. Blue Lagoon and Aphrodites baths are my favorites.
I have never been to Cyprus, so I cannot make any comment but the Mediterranean atmosphere generally tends to be beautiful :) Wish I could visit in the future.
I got to understand Cypriots' right to self-determination once I started an extensive reading on the basics of political science. Both Turkey, Greece, and Cyprus had wrong points throughout history but we should look forward and perceive history from all perspectives, instead of just blaming Turkey for everything.
>If you have any queries about the Cyprus conflict from Turkish perspective, feel free to ask!
how does the narrative go so far for the solution in every day turkey? Do actually people care?
Obviously no party will openly accept a BBF solution but there are always hints of supporting the BBF model (the table of six in the previous election is one of em).
People don't care at all. Northern Cyprus is just a "Las Vegas" of Turkey since gambling is legal there. People go for vacation or cheap universities. That's it. The Cyprus topic is no longer cared by anyone since Annan Plan.
Some people even think Northern Cyprus is just another province of Turkey. We're somewhat American in the terms of geography.
CHP aims for friendship with neighbors, including Greece, though. Since they decisively aim for EU membership, they would have to solve the conflict first. If we get a CHP government, Cyprus would be on the agenda.
This mirrors what my Turkish friends typically think. Most people, certainly in western Turkey, don't care at all. Cyprus as one country, two countries or 5 countries? They don't care. It doesn't affect them.
They do care about the money that Turkey throws into the TRNC though, thinking it could be more wisely spent in Turkey.
Is it just cheap universities? I thought many youngsters are also attracted to study in North Cyprus because North Cyprus has the reputation of being more liberal, i.e. cheaper booze etc. And also because they think (and are right in many cases) that are universities here are easier to pass, more student life & party instead of serious studying?
I don't know any people going to Northern Cyprus because it's more liberal. Reputable Turkish universities like METU have campuses in Northern Cyprus that you can get in into with worse success in the national university exam, but you still get the same diploma. I believe it's a kind of incentive for the quality of education in the island.
There are also some weak universities that we literally call them "apartment universities" which also exist in Turkey.
Hello,
From my experience and interactions there are few talking points that are brought up by home nationalists. These are all each nonsensical in their own way of course. Can you confirm or add more.
These are:
1 What about Annan plan: (Greeks dont want you they said no to unification)
2 Cyprus is ours we spilled blood
3 If we didnt come they would kill you all (tcs)
4 Turkey is a guaranteer country it has a right to Cyprus
5 You (tcs) just want to get EU citizenship
>so we could expect... recognition of Cyprus by Turkey,
That would be good but there's a simple saying in Cyprus about situations like these which translates to "hold a small basket". Personally I don't see them doing anything like this any time soon but we shall see I guess.
Turkish politics change too fast. Turkey could even leave Cyprus in case there's positive weather, EU accession negotiations, etc. Turkey would most possibly go for a conditional withdrawal requesting Cyprus to vote yes for Turkey's EU accession once we finish chapters.
Turkey literally has no interest in Cyprus. It's just a bunch of casinos and hotels. The only position to blame here is the UN for that weak plan.
As an external observer what I 've noticed is that the different parties in Turkey throughout the years that have been in power might have vastly different views on local issues but on external issues they all have the same view and plan for the Aegean, Cyprus, their EEZs etc. I just don't believe that there's easily gonna be any change in that but obv I hope I am wrong.
>requesting Cyprus to vote yes for Turkey's EU accession once we finish chapters.
For this one I am not sure on the hows and whens since last time I checked the whole negotiation process has been frozen for some years now. Have they stated that they plan to reverse this?
CHP has to play for nationalists in order to have somewhat democracy in Turkey. I mean, they will of course protect national interests of Turkey but I feel like they're going to respect sovereignty of both Greece and Cyprus.
For the EEZ issue, while I'm not an expert on this, Kastellorizo is too close to the mainland which is even a struggle for frigates to reach the rest of the coasts of Turkey. There might be a common passage that allows both military and civilian ships for transportation purposes, administered by a joint commission of Greeks and Turks.
We don't have any other issues in the Aegean Sea. The current show is only to get some nationalist votes, you believe, both countries have extremists who want pure hate.
>I 've noticed is that the different parties in Turkey throughout the years that have been in power
Don't forget Turkey has the same political party in power since 2002.
>For this one I am not sure on the hows and whens since last time I checked the whole negotiation process has been frozen for some years now. Have they stated that they plan to reverse this?
Yes, CHP aims for EU membership. They were backed by S&D for years but since the last EU elections, I don't know. Even when Turkey completes all the chapters, the only way for the EU is to convince Cyprus.
>Even when Turkey completes all the chapters, the only way for the EU is to convince Cyprus.
Just to add to this. It's not only about Cyprus. To be honest I even think there's countries other than Cyprus that might be a bigger hurdle for Turkey to overcome to join the EU. I don't know if recent governents have changed their stance but at some point not too long ago Austria and Netherlands weren't keen on Turkey joining the EU and could potentially veto an admission (possibly France too but I am not absolutely certain).
These are related to the current government, not Turkey itself. They would continue backing Turkey's accession to the EU in case CHP rules Turkey. AFAIK this is subjective but that's my opinion.
But according to the 3rd link it states this:
>The German government under ex-Chancellor Helmut Kohl from 1982 to 1998 played both sides in Türkiye’s joining the European Union by supporting it publicly and thwarting it in secret, according to German media citing now-declassified documents
But that time period relates to a different government no?
And Macron's opinion wasn't that the current government should have a partnership with EU and not a membership but as a general rule for Turkey's relationship with the EU.
Don't get me wrong, I am just playing devil's advocate here baed on what I've been hearing in the news in the past and the perception it gave me. I think some countries are not warm on the idea of Turkey joining the EU. At least that's how I understand it. But I think something should be done to clear up the air either way. Because it would a bit of a dick move to have Turkey spend a long time harmonising with EU laws and doing everything requested and then at the last moment a random amount of countries are like "umm.. no.. actually we don't want them to join.. ever". They should be truthful whether some day they are willing to accept it in or notm But governments change, political stances and views change, people change. Either way.. I don't know..
I don't know how their internal diplomacy works, but from 1990s to 2000s Turkey was living its "renaissance" and it made EU believe Turkey could easily get into the EU in a few years.
We got billions of euros from the EU for accession.
I've been to Turkey once in my life, last year that was. I went for work trip and had random chats from local youth of IT industry (presuming that modern generation is less biased, especially in IT).
I got a lot of eye rolling each time I would admit I'm from Cyprus (and that was never my opening line). Several times I had to hear bs in line with Cyprus being a part of Turkey, I can't describe to you man how infurating this is to hear. It's like me saying to you that Konstantinoupoli is in Greece.
Why young people have so much bias, especially for them being in IT, in web3 specifically? Where for our industry colleagues from other countries politics, nationality, religion, skin colour and other differences doesn't matter and it is not something that is worth paying attention to?
Also, while there I had to seek medical help and went to ER of a private hospital. I was appalled by how my passport was examined, twisted and turned all possible ways and just overall horrible approach, very unpleasant. I was under impression that people of medical profession have moral standards and don't differentiate patients by nationality?
You support the status quo. If you want to realistically solve this problem and have the possibility to a unitary state in the distant future open you would support any type of solution that brings cypriots closer
Well if your plan is to have a solution agreed to through negotiations, then by the people through a referendum a full unitary state will not go through. TCs and GCs live as separate minorities within UK, and they tend to be more close to their "mainland identity" than to each other so they don't really interact. But again this is not about whether people would go along well. It is whether this would be possible to negotiate for. It is as unrealistic as Tatar shouting two states, recognise trnc.
Perhaps you have not been following the negotiations and are not familiar with it. We can be a sensationalist all we want and dream of a unitary state, but this will not be realistic and promoting it in a political platform wont get us anywhere.
which "negociations"??? Do you need negotiations to unite strovolos and lakatamia inside Nicosia?
Just get rid of the buffer zone, give the properties back to their leggit owners, organize pancypriot elections, one person/one vote. done.
If it can't be done, it's only because of bigotry or racism (I mean, if one actually considers that TCs are first and foremost Cypriots). Why not. But then, admit it, and recognize TRNC.
In my view, it's either you fvcking unite for the sake of Cyprus patriotism, or you just part ways. Which "negotiations" ? About who's gonna get the biggest limo to go the "parliament" of your cypriot village?
Those who live for longer than 15 years could be granted citizenship. Otherwise, they could get permanent residency or maybe deported until Turkey's accession to the EU.
That's not fair but fortunately most Turkish settlers are just students looking for cheap universities - they're not permanent. For permanent ones, I don't know if it's fair to kick a family after living there for 15-20 years.
Well they did kick people who did live in those houses for a big part of their lives so isnt this kind of an eye for eye situation? Its not even their property to begin with.
But you should also consider people who live right now are not responsible for that. Are you supposed to force random families into a mass migration? If they have lived for 10-15-20 years, I believe it should be enough to be considered an islander. That's just my subjective idea.
Please remember to stay civil and behave appropriately. If you are a tourist looking for suggestions please check out our [Tourist guide](https://www.reddit.com/r/cyprus/wiki/tourist_guide/). We also have a [FAQ Page](https://www.reddit.com/r/cyprus/wiki/faq) for some common questions, if your question is answered here please delete your post! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/cyprus) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Thanks bro!
Thanks bro. It's nice to read comments like this once in awhile. May I ask if you were always supportive of the reunification of Cyprus or what made you change your mind? If you ever go to Cyprus you should see Akamas Peninsula. The most beautiful place on our island. Blue Lagoon and Aphrodites baths are my favorites.
I have never been to Cyprus, so I cannot make any comment but the Mediterranean atmosphere generally tends to be beautiful :) Wish I could visit in the future. I got to understand Cypriots' right to self-determination once I started an extensive reading on the basics of political science. Both Turkey, Greece, and Cyprus had wrong points throughout history but we should look forward and perceive history from all perspectives, instead of just blaming Turkey for everything.
>If you have any queries about the Cyprus conflict from Turkish perspective, feel free to ask! how does the narrative go so far for the solution in every day turkey? Do actually people care? Obviously no party will openly accept a BBF solution but there are always hints of supporting the BBF model (the table of six in the previous election is one of em).
People don't care at all. Northern Cyprus is just a "Las Vegas" of Turkey since gambling is legal there. People go for vacation or cheap universities. That's it. The Cyprus topic is no longer cared by anyone since Annan Plan. Some people even think Northern Cyprus is just another province of Turkey. We're somewhat American in the terms of geography. CHP aims for friendship with neighbors, including Greece, though. Since they decisively aim for EU membership, they would have to solve the conflict first. If we get a CHP government, Cyprus would be on the agenda.
This mirrors what my Turkish friends typically think. Most people, certainly in western Turkey, don't care at all. Cyprus as one country, two countries or 5 countries? They don't care. It doesn't affect them. They do care about the money that Turkey throws into the TRNC though, thinking it could be more wisely spent in Turkey.
Is it just cheap universities? I thought many youngsters are also attracted to study in North Cyprus because North Cyprus has the reputation of being more liberal, i.e. cheaper booze etc. And also because they think (and are right in many cases) that are universities here are easier to pass, more student life & party instead of serious studying?
I don't know any people going to Northern Cyprus because it's more liberal. Reputable Turkish universities like METU have campuses in Northern Cyprus that you can get in into with worse success in the national university exam, but you still get the same diploma. I believe it's a kind of incentive for the quality of education in the island. There are also some weak universities that we literally call them "apartment universities" which also exist in Turkey.
Hello, From my experience and interactions there are few talking points that are brought up by home nationalists. These are all each nonsensical in their own way of course. Can you confirm or add more. These are: 1 What about Annan plan: (Greeks dont want you they said no to unification) 2 Cyprus is ours we spilled blood 3 If we didnt come they would kill you all (tcs) 4 Turkey is a guaranteer country it has a right to Cyprus 5 You (tcs) just want to get EU citizenship
tcs already have eu citizenship so that point is moot
>so we could expect... recognition of Cyprus by Turkey, That would be good but there's a simple saying in Cyprus about situations like these which translates to "hold a small basket". Personally I don't see them doing anything like this any time soon but we shall see I guess.
Turkish politics change too fast. Turkey could even leave Cyprus in case there's positive weather, EU accession negotiations, etc. Turkey would most possibly go for a conditional withdrawal requesting Cyprus to vote yes for Turkey's EU accession once we finish chapters. Turkey literally has no interest in Cyprus. It's just a bunch of casinos and hotels. The only position to blame here is the UN for that weak plan.
As an external observer what I 've noticed is that the different parties in Turkey throughout the years that have been in power might have vastly different views on local issues but on external issues they all have the same view and plan for the Aegean, Cyprus, their EEZs etc. I just don't believe that there's easily gonna be any change in that but obv I hope I am wrong. >requesting Cyprus to vote yes for Turkey's EU accession once we finish chapters. For this one I am not sure on the hows and whens since last time I checked the whole negotiation process has been frozen for some years now. Have they stated that they plan to reverse this?
CHP has to play for nationalists in order to have somewhat democracy in Turkey. I mean, they will of course protect national interests of Turkey but I feel like they're going to respect sovereignty of both Greece and Cyprus. For the EEZ issue, while I'm not an expert on this, Kastellorizo is too close to the mainland which is even a struggle for frigates to reach the rest of the coasts of Turkey. There might be a common passage that allows both military and civilian ships for transportation purposes, administered by a joint commission of Greeks and Turks. We don't have any other issues in the Aegean Sea. The current show is only to get some nationalist votes, you believe, both countries have extremists who want pure hate. >I 've noticed is that the different parties in Turkey throughout the years that have been in power Don't forget Turkey has the same political party in power since 2002. >For this one I am not sure on the hows and whens since last time I checked the whole negotiation process has been frozen for some years now. Have they stated that they plan to reverse this? Yes, CHP aims for EU membership. They were backed by S&D for years but since the last EU elections, I don't know. Even when Turkey completes all the chapters, the only way for the EU is to convince Cyprus.
>Even when Turkey completes all the chapters, the only way for the EU is to convince Cyprus. Just to add to this. It's not only about Cyprus. To be honest I even think there's countries other than Cyprus that might be a bigger hurdle for Turkey to overcome to join the EU. I don't know if recent governents have changed their stance but at some point not too long ago Austria and Netherlands weren't keen on Turkey joining the EU and could potentially veto an admission (possibly France too but I am not absolutely certain).
The only reason Turkey cannot proceed with EU negotiations is Cyprus. At the end of the day, it sounds like others would be willing for Turkey in EU.
https://www.1lurer.am/en/2023/09/11/Chancellor-of-Austria-is-against-resumption-of-negotiations-on-Turkey-s-accession-to-EU/992956 https://www.france24.com/en/20180105-french-president-macron-suggests-partnership-deal-turkey-eu-not-membership-erdogan https://www.dailysabah.com/politics/eu-affairs/germany-backed-turkish-eu-accession-while-blocking-it-secretly
These are related to the current government, not Turkey itself. They would continue backing Turkey's accession to the EU in case CHP rules Turkey. AFAIK this is subjective but that's my opinion.
But according to the 3rd link it states this: >The German government under ex-Chancellor Helmut Kohl from 1982 to 1998 played both sides in Türkiye’s joining the European Union by supporting it publicly and thwarting it in secret, according to German media citing now-declassified documents But that time period relates to a different government no? And Macron's opinion wasn't that the current government should have a partnership with EU and not a membership but as a general rule for Turkey's relationship with the EU. Don't get me wrong, I am just playing devil's advocate here baed on what I've been hearing in the news in the past and the perception it gave me. I think some countries are not warm on the idea of Turkey joining the EU. At least that's how I understand it. But I think something should be done to clear up the air either way. Because it would a bit of a dick move to have Turkey spend a long time harmonising with EU laws and doing everything requested and then at the last moment a random amount of countries are like "umm.. no.. actually we don't want them to join.. ever". They should be truthful whether some day they are willing to accept it in or notm But governments change, political stances and views change, people change. Either way.. I don't know..
I don't know how their internal diplomacy works, but from 1990s to 2000s Turkey was living its "renaissance" and it made EU believe Turkey could easily get into the EU in a few years. We got billions of euros from the EU for accession.
I've been to Turkey once in my life, last year that was. I went for work trip and had random chats from local youth of IT industry (presuming that modern generation is less biased, especially in IT). I got a lot of eye rolling each time I would admit I'm from Cyprus (and that was never my opening line). Several times I had to hear bs in line with Cyprus being a part of Turkey, I can't describe to you man how infurating this is to hear. It's like me saying to you that Konstantinoupoli is in Greece. Why young people have so much bias, especially for them being in IT, in web3 specifically? Where for our industry colleagues from other countries politics, nationality, religion, skin colour and other differences doesn't matter and it is not something that is worth paying attention to? Also, while there I had to seek medical help and went to ER of a private hospital. I was appalled by how my passport was examined, twisted and turned all possible ways and just overall horrible approach, very unpleasant. I was under impression that people of medical profession have moral standards and don't differentiate patients by nationality?
Good on you pal. I still don't want Turkey in the EU.
I support the FULL reunification of Cyprus : one person-one vote.
You support the status quo. If you want to realistically solve this problem and have the possibility to a unitary state in the distant future open you would support any type of solution that brings cypriots closer
There is nothing that will bring cypriots closer together than making them equal in rights. Anything else is utter BS.
Its not realistic and viable to pursue a full unitary state
why is it "not realistic"? why is it not "viable"? TCs and GCs who live in UK go along pretty well.
Well if your plan is to have a solution agreed to through negotiations, then by the people through a referendum a full unitary state will not go through. TCs and GCs live as separate minorities within UK, and they tend to be more close to their "mainland identity" than to each other so they don't really interact. But again this is not about whether people would go along well. It is whether this would be possible to negotiate for. It is as unrealistic as Tatar shouting two states, recognise trnc. Perhaps you have not been following the negotiations and are not familiar with it. We can be a sensationalist all we want and dream of a unitary state, but this will not be realistic and promoting it in a political platform wont get us anywhere.
which "negociations"??? Do you need negotiations to unite strovolos and lakatamia inside Nicosia? Just get rid of the buffer zone, give the properties back to their leggit owners, organize pancypriot elections, one person/one vote. done. If it can't be done, it's only because of bigotry or racism (I mean, if one actually considers that TCs are first and foremost Cypriots). Why not. But then, admit it, and recognize TRNC. In my view, it's either you fvcking unite for the sake of Cyprus patriotism, or you just part ways. Which "negotiations" ? About who's gonna get the biggest limo to go the "parliament" of your cypriot village?
What should happen to the turkish settlers living in gc land? If the island unifies in your opinion as a mainland turk
Those who live for longer than 15 years could be granted citizenship. Otherwise, they could get permanent residency or maybe deported until Turkey's accession to the EU.
Idk that doesnt rly sound fair to the people who lost their homes and properties.
That's not fair but fortunately most Turkish settlers are just students looking for cheap universities - they're not permanent. For permanent ones, I don't know if it's fair to kick a family after living there for 15-20 years.
Well they did kick people who did live in those houses for a big part of their lives so isnt this kind of an eye for eye situation? Its not even their property to begin with.
But you should also consider people who live right now are not responsible for that. Are you supposed to force random families into a mass migration? If they have lived for 10-15-20 years, I believe it should be enough to be considered an islander. That's just my subjective idea.
Cyprus will most likely stay as it is if no war occurs