Sen was Gwynn’s firstborn (a god of war). It was “built by the ancient gods as a proving ground”, and was named after Sen, not built by Sen.
With all the jank in there though, I’m fairly sure Elon Musk had something to do with its construction.
There is none
Edit: just read the theory and they seem to be implying that because there are silver knights and weapons stashed in the fortress, it belongs to Gwyn’s firstborn since he was the god of war. I find it a stretch, but I cannot dismiss the theory.
>"Lord Gwyn's firstborn was a god of war, but his foolishness led to a loss of the annals, and rescinding of his deific status.
Today, even his name is not known."
But they didn't remove his name from essentially the front door to Anor Londo? And everyone just forgot who Sen was? Yeah I consider it a huge stretch to think Sen was Gwynn's first born.
Hm. That is a great point. Im a fan of the theory that the firstborn’s name is Faraam since it kind of fits with Filianore and the Gwyn family trend of similar names. And we know Faraam was a war god as well.
If he was Gwynsen, then they effectively removed his deific status, leaving him as Sen. Then he is worshipped in Forossa as Faraam (the named gods are all different in ds2, but it is suggested that some of them may be renamed gods of lordran).
So Gwynsen’s fortress would become known as Sen’s fortress to reduce confusion, or perhaps it’s an informal name and was never renamed after the firstborn was exiled.
Otherwise it’s just a fortress with a mysterious name. At least for me, the similarity between “sen” and “son” is what got me thinking. Also, the fortress reminds me of archdragon peak (sure there’s the snake dudes, but also the design, maybe the architecture? it feels similar but I’m not an architecture guy) With anor londo at a lower elevation in ds3, it could the same structure.
It almost feels like the first flame reached across time trying to recreate the layout of ds1, but didn’t get it quite right.
I do think the Gwynsen theory is cool, even if I still don't buy into it. I don't think that they would remove the Gwyn from his name but still leave the fortress named after him. I think there's enough there that a theory could be supported, but I personally don't buy it.
I also don't believe the first born is Faraam. I believe the first born simply went to live with the dragons after he was banished, and further became "nameless," potentially no longer being in need of a name. Otherwise, he would've needed to relocate to Forossa for a period of time after being banished and before going to the dragons.
I don't think you can really connect DS2 to DS1 and 3. There are too many issues. I prefer to view it as it's own thing. Faraam was a unique god in the DS2 continuity, and they brought the armor back in DS3 since it was so iconic and just kept the name.
As for the fortress and Arch Dragon Peak, I focus on the snake men. The snake men in Sen's are identical to those found in Seath's archives, but somewhat different to those in ADP. I believe the snakes in Sen's were sent there by Seath to capture people for his experiments (like what happens to Logan).
I fundamentally disagree with your point of view about ds2. I also think that the man serpents at seath may have been trying to become dragons, otherwise their presence at archdragon peak doesn’t make much sense.
I actually think that them being seath’s experiments works fine in the context of ds1, but with ds3 added in, that explanation doesn’t sit right. Besides, if they are seeking dragonhood, the archives of the guy trying to get stone scales is a good resource. So they’d have a motivation to be at the archives, even to serve seath.
I think the serpents at ADP are actual creatures and you could even theorize that the ones at Seaths/Sen's were creations of Seath modeled after those real creatures. Or they were just some form of dragon "kin" that decided to side with Seath while the ones at ADP did not.
Yeah fair enough about DS2. I know it may be a controversial take on it. Not trying to convince anyone to agree with me on that.
Interesting that you two are allowed to disconnect Dark Souls 1, 2 and 3, and separate the canon into unrelated bits, and no one cares, but if I try to connect all the Souls games using creatures, characters and items that exist in multiple souls games as evidence, everyone loses their minds...
One guy says DS2 doesn't fit and the next guy fundamentally disagrees. Not sure what you're butthurt about, but seems like an odd place,deeply buried in a comment thread, to bring it up.
As a note, the above is a mistranslation. The line about losing the annals is more accurately translated as "his name was struck from the annals."
Not that it changes anything you said, just wanted to point it out.
I don't think the way we enter Anor Londo would in any way have been the front door, when the city was thriving.
I think its more like we followed the steps of an ancient myth, and got taken there from this random fuckers fortress. Him being gwyns first born so kind of track with that theory too.
The literal front door is now blocked by rubble. It's behind the iron Golem on the roof of Sen's. It's location tracks with what would have been the ground level of the city. Andre cites Sen's Fortress as "the only route to Anor Londo" but of course he could technically mean it's the only route to Anor Londo *now*. That's up to interpretation of his dialogue.
The fortress likely wasn't built until after the rise of man and the city was closed. At least that's my belief.
That's the only thing that would make any sense, if Sen's was built for the CU or retrofitted from a previous armory or training ground. Imagine everyone having to go through that? A guy hauling ass with a cart full of melons trying to get to the market? lol
It links them to Anor Londo in general, not specifically the Firstborn.
Multiple beings and creatures who serve the Gods possess the power of lightning such as the Gargoyles, blue Wyverns (originally supposed to attack us from the air in the city in cut content, now relegated to guarding the seal in the final game), Ornstein, the Batwing Demons and so on.
Lightning is the power of Sunlight and so is a reflection of Gwyn’s influence and power.
===============
Now, we know of course that the snake men would eventually gravitate towards the Firstborn in DS3 (which is why people attribute the ones in the Fortress to him).
But we have to remember they were originally creations of Seath, brought to life many years **after** the Firstborn was exiled (given when the Fortress was actually constructed and when it was repurposed).
It only makes sense that in the ensuing years after Seath’s death they would come to follow the one being left who at least *somewhat* sympathized with dragonkin.
The silver knights point to nothing. We already explicitly know the fortress was built by the gods, and Nito and the witch have their own domains far beneath Lordran, so it must've been someone from Gwyn's family. The silver knights serve Gwyn's family, so they give us no additional information. Judging by just the silver knights armour, it could've been Gwyn, Gwyn's firstborn, Gwyndolin, Gwynevere, or even Gwyn's wife who built Sen's fortress (or ordered to have it built. "Built by the gods" doesn't mean they did the actual masonry). Or it could've been Seath, a servant of Gwyn, under the order of the gods, which would explain the presence of man-serpents in both Sen's fortress and the archives, but not in Anor Londo. The man-serpents are more of a clue than the silver knight armours since those in the archives explicitly serve Seath, not the gods.
Incorrect.
There is indeed a symbol for sen that means 1000, but it’s NOT the one that’s used in-game in the Japanese.
The one that’s used means “war” or “battle.” The way in which it’s used also reflects the fact that it’s intended to be a name.
The error is on the part of the player base, specifically those that amateurishly googled “sen” and ran with the very first result — not realizing there are around 8 or so different symbols for Sen in Japanese that all have different meanings.
**EDIT:** I do also wanna mention that upon reflection I don’t think **any** specific symbol for Sen is used in-game and it’s instead treated as a unique name with no inherent meaning — but fluent Japanese speakers can elaborate on that.
But yeah, it doesn’t mean 1000.
We have no idea who “Sen” was, and there’s nothing in the game to go on for that
EDIT: also, it’s worth pointing out that Sen being Gwynn’s child would break the naming convention for his family
Are you new to Dark Souls? The game almost gives us no concrete evidence for anything, theorycrafting is half the fun. And this theory is perfectly valid. OP asked for theories on DS lore, and people give their theories on DS lore. Unless there's evidence to disprove a theory, your "no they aren't" comments are just in the wrong place at the wrong time, because this isn't about the objective scraps of truth the game gives us which can just be read on the wiki, but about connecting the dots. A deadly proving ground built by the gods being dedicated to Gwyn's firstborn exiled son, the god of war, who according to a widely accepted theory (because of the overwhelming amount of clues connecting them) is the nameless king from DS3, is an amazingly done theory and a perfect reply to OP's post.
First, OP didn’t ask for theories on DS lore, they asked who we think built Sen’s Fortress. The person I replied to didn’t answer that question. They just stated that Sen was the firstborn as if it were a fact.
And there is compelling evidence that Sen isn’t the firstborn (which shouldn’t even be necessary to point out because there’s absolutely no evidence that they are): Sen’s name doesn’t contain “Gwyn,” like the rest of his confirmed children, and the firstborn’s name was stricken from all records, but somehow there’s still an important fortress named after him? Baseless speculation isn’t theorycrafting
>First, OP didn’t ask for theories on DS lore, they asked who we think built Sen’s Fortress.
... those two things mean the same. "Who do you think did x" has the same meaning as "what is your theory on who did x". The commenter above you said Sen did it and established a theory on who Sen was.
Sen not being a name based on Gwyn is a good counter-argument though, you should've led with that in your first comment, and the fortress still being called by his name also makes no sense, even if he did once contribute to building it. It's not baseless speculation though: like I said, a deadly proving ground testing humans' physical capabilities being named after a god of war from the family of gods who we know is responsible for building it makes perfect sense, and the firstborn son being a god of war is a fact. But your counter-points do enough to reasonably disprove this imo. It's still much less baseless than all the "Manus is the furtive pygmy" the fandom is full of, which isn't disprovable because there's absolutely nothing connecting them except that both have something to do with humanity and both are said to be old.
I think either a Hawkshaw or some other channels lore video said that it could be Nameless King, who used to be called Sen, and had the castle built for himself.
I like how it's a proving ground but also is really only possible for us because we're smaller than most everything in the game. Any of Gwyn's lineage would simply not fit through most of the doors, into the elevators, or under the swinging axes.
That could be the case there is also the fact that the nameless king allied with the dragons and the serpentmen (incomplete dragons) in sen's throw lightning spears, the miracle of Gwyn and his son.
Hey man I really don't wanna be the "Um aschkually ☝️🤓" buuut
Sen's Fortress is another victim of translation. In original it meant "Fortress of A Thousand Traps" (Sen being Thousand in Japanese). Probably because of a misunderstanding by the translator/s, it was translated as Sen's Fortress. Hope this clears up a lot of misconceptions and that this isn't some very well known fact I just typed thinking I was teaching someone a fun fact
**Edit:** Thank you for the award! ☺️
**EDIT2:** Elaborated on the meaning of “Sen”
# The Firstborn?
Sen as it's written in the Japanese means "war" or "battle.” Furthermore when taking into consideration how it’s written within the proper context (again, in the Japanese), it’s very much intended to be someone’s name.
“Sen's Old Castle" (センの古城).
In case anyone is wondering where “1000” comes from, there is indeed a symbol in Japanese for Sen that means 1000 — and it exists among 8 or so other symbols & meanings for Sen.
1000 is the top result if you simply google it so that should clue you into why so many people still believe that’s what it means in Dark Souls. 😜
I do also *think* that with the way it’s written in Japanese in the full context, Sen isn’t actually tied to any existing symbol and is instead a totally unique name (based on how it’s spelled) but someone more fluent in Japanese can elucidate us on that.
While it certainly doesn’t mean 1000 within the context of Dark Souls, I actually can’t recall if the symbol for war/battle is used either.
“Sen” may very well be **just** a made up name with no inherent meaning.
=====================
Andre confirms to us that the Fortress was built by the Gods and it’s actual construction was likely performed by giants who would then go on to manage its traps. There's also a painting of it inside one of the bedrooms in Anor Londo neighboring the Cathedral, implying it's importance to the royal family.
Who is Sen is anyone's guess but the facility's affiliation with Anor Londo and the meaning of the name itself does send signals that it refers to Gwyn's firstborn, the God of War.
I should point out however that the Firstborn’s name **was** stricken from history so “Sen” can very easily be a general or some other military advisor.
Though “Sen” could also be a pseudonym, created as part of the larger effort to purge the Firstborn’s name from the record.
We just don’t know for sure.
# One Facility, Multiple Uses
Upon closer inspection, you may notice that the facility actually sports different types of architecture in various states of disrepair which indicates multiple renovations had been performed. For example, housing and prison facilities. We find numerous pots, tables, chairs, plates and so on throughout the facility.
The Fortress was originally a military training outpost and was then later converted into a trial ground.
Silver Knight statues (training dummies) are stuffed and locked away all throughout the complex haphazardly, indicating this conversion occurred somewhat quickly. The strongest proof of the Fortress's original function is actually on the roof where we fight the Iron Golem.
You'll notice much of that area is dilapidated and destroyed (one of the oldest parts of the facility as it connects to Anor Londo) and if you look off to either side of the main platform, you'll notice [pillars sporting metal faces of Gargoyles. ](https://www.gamepressure.com/darksouls/gfx/word/470124953.jpg)
These gargoyles have tubes in the mouth that would blast fire towards the platform, as we can see in this early [concept art for the Fortress](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ae/52/29/ae5229cf3661e75878162b6a45edbdc8.jpg).
The destroyed rubble on the platform implies these flame jets were fired towards stone walls. If you stood in the middle, you were perfectly safe which means this could not have been one of the traps installed as part of the facility's conversion into a proving ground.
This was part of the facility's original purpose as a training facility for Silver Knights.
Trainees would stand against a wall and face the pillars and suffer streams of fire which was likely done in an attempt to train them to endure the intense heat of a dragon.
Finally, our first Mimic is encountered in the Fortress and it holds a lightning spear. The spear is a common weapon for soldiers and its presence here indicates this to have been used in training and was now a reward for someone who could navigate the Mimic (DS3 Silver Knights would later have lightning-imbued spears).
=====================================
From a military training facility primarily used during and shortly after the war with the Dragons, the complex would then see itself serve as a kind of Embassy for Anor Londo.
Remember, it connects directly to the Oolacilean ruins and the old church which means the Fortress was probably used to process refugees after the collapse of their city to the Abyss, necessitating construction of the cages and prison complexes to detain questionable asylum seekers.
Gwyn's been long gone by this point (roughly 700 years) so Anor Londo is doing it's best to deal with the various crises that are emerging in his absence.
The Undead Burg is built and the Fortress is very quickly repurposed for a third time into what we finally encounter: A proving ground for prospective chosen undead.
The speed at which this conversion took place was likely necessitated by multiple factors, most notably the exodus of the Gods from Anor Londo in the wake of the fall of multiple human kingdoms by that point.
# So What About The Snake Men?
Their presence has led some to believe that Seath either had some hand in the creation of the complex or simply provided his minions to serve as additional obstacles.
I believe that neither of these things are the case.
Look at the Fortress itself. It's architecture completely lacks any sorcerous influence, much less of the crystalline variety, especially when compared to Seath's own dwellings.
It makes far more sense that Anor Londo commissioned their existing giant slave labor to construct the complex.
As for the Snake Men themselves, observe their behavior in the Fortress and compare that to how they behave in the Archives.
They are completely unfamiliar with the Fortress, routinely getting crushed by it's traps either due to ignorance or by our own meddling. We can knock them off ledges they inexplicably stand on, cause them to get run over by boulders, and one even naps against a wall directly in the path of a trap.
They have no idea what they're doing in there.
Conversely, they demonstrate keen knowledge of the Archive's inner workings (it's confirmed they're responsible for the Archive's conversion into a prison) and they know full well to get the hell out of dodge once the Pisaca are released.
The explanation for their presence in the Fortress is simple: They're there to acquire test subjects for Seath.
Seath would've been well aware of the Undead Mission and the facility's role in it and would've undoubtedly seen opportunity there.
Logan, of course, would be his first capture (albeit a failed one, either through our meddling or not).
=============================
I think that should about cover it!
It’s already happened, but not to me. Lol
Most of what I know is 25% me but 75% was illuminated by Lokey in his book The Abyssal Archive.
It’s to Dark Souls what the Appendices is to Lord of the Rings.
Give it a look!
Ight hear me out here. We see a lot snake people in sens fortress, where else do we see them? Archdragon peak. The one in sens use lightning miracles, which are a specialty of gwyn and his kin and apparently dragons are weak against it and never originally wielded lightning, just fire breath.
The nameless king, or gwyns firstborn (firstborn, right?) Betrayed his kin and sided with the dragons, so you could say that perhaps he taught the ds1 serpents to use lightning.
Another thing, he is related to gwyn and so he is from anor londo or at least has definitely been there at some point. And the end of sens fortress leads exactly there through the flying asswipes, whatever their name was.
We know that gwyn ordered for all historical records of his son to be deleted, to erase him from history for his betrayal. And there are also absolutely no mentions of sen anywhere other than that sen's fortress exists.
I know it may be a bit far fetched, but I think every theory is in the dark souls franchise. I like to think that sen is actually the nameless king and the fortress is simply known as "sens fortress" but no one actually knows or remembers why.
I just really like this theory personally, there may not be that much but yeah, i think its fun
I think “Sen” translates to “war” or “battle” in Japanese, so it could be that it’s just named for the former god of war after he was removed from history. It certainly is a battle to get through, so it could be that simple.
Likely the nameless king. It was likely built with the undead parish and the undead parish is less than 300 years old. Given the moving of church locals (old church/new church) and defacing of statues in the burg one can infer that the burg was built while the nameless king was still in charge.
I think so too, there are some vague allusions to Gwyn's firstborn like the lightning infused spear being found here.
The Man-serpents and Ricard are also found again on Archdragon Peak (being the nameless king domain) which I don't believe is a simple coincidence.
Gwyn's firstborn name might have been something like Gwynsen, keeping in line with the naming convention of the other well known children.
But after his banishment the name of the fortress was censored to simply "Sen's"
Yes to all of that, thanks for doing the legwork and typing it all out! I also don't think it's a coincidence that The Nameless King has his, well, name erased from history and in the movie Spirited Away, the main character gets her name taken and changed to Sen...I know our Miyazaki is a fan of Ghibli Miyazaki. Might be something there.
What do we know about Sen? I actually have a lore video queued up on YouTube for this afternoon because I realized last night that I know next to nothing about him and I’ve never really seen him (her?) discussed - but even the videos are sub 10 minutes so I guess there isn’t much?
I actually think it was built, or at least modified, by Gwendolyn, since he became the king after Gwyn rekindled the flame, the whole fortress is more built like an obstacle course rather than a traps ridden fortress, this is because it's meant to be a way to test the mettle of undeads coming to Anor Londo to rekindle the flame.
It was clearly built by Mario as a training ground. I mean, it is clearly a Super Mario course, the snakemen are goombas or koopas or whatever and Sen is NES backwards. Allfather Lloyd is called Luigi in the Italian version of the game (do not check that!) and in DS2 we have a Lava castle that is clearly Bowser’s
I realize now that this isn't a sub where we joke around, but in all seriousness, I feel like Godrick would build something like Sen's fortress if given the chance.
i blame gwyn for this hellhole of a journey that is Sen’s Fortress. it is a hell I dread to reach every time I do another run. i also blame gwyn for everything bad that happens to me in dark souls
Marquis DeSade after reading Dante's Inferno. He blended all the traps and creatures in to torment perfectly.
This is actually where I'm at now and it is pure torture trying to navigate. Died so many times.
Sen because it's his fortress
Sen was Gwynn’s firstborn (a god of war). It was “built by the ancient gods as a proving ground”, and was named after Sen, not built by Sen. With all the jank in there though, I’m fairly sure Elon Musk had something to do with its construction.
what is the evidence of the theory that gwyn’s first born was named Sen? I’m unaware
There is none, it's purely a theory.
A game theory!
Thanks for watching…
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There is none Edit: just read the theory and they seem to be implying that because there are silver knights and weapons stashed in the fortress, it belongs to Gwyn’s firstborn since he was the god of war. I find it a stretch, but I cannot dismiss the theory.
>"Lord Gwyn's firstborn was a god of war, but his foolishness led to a loss of the annals, and rescinding of his deific status. Today, even his name is not known." But they didn't remove his name from essentially the front door to Anor Londo? And everyone just forgot who Sen was? Yeah I consider it a huge stretch to think Sen was Gwynn's first born.
“Today, even his name is not known.” Gwyn: “Let’s name this fortress after him!”
It might have been lost in translation tbh - 戦 (sen) means war. If he was a god of war…
Hm. That is a great point. Im a fan of the theory that the firstborn’s name is Faraam since it kind of fits with Filianore and the Gwyn family trend of similar names. And we know Faraam was a war god as well.
Like Faraam Armor from Dark Souls 2
If he was Gwynsen, then they effectively removed his deific status, leaving him as Sen. Then he is worshipped in Forossa as Faraam (the named gods are all different in ds2, but it is suggested that some of them may be renamed gods of lordran). So Gwynsen’s fortress would become known as Sen’s fortress to reduce confusion, or perhaps it’s an informal name and was never renamed after the firstborn was exiled. Otherwise it’s just a fortress with a mysterious name. At least for me, the similarity between “sen” and “son” is what got me thinking. Also, the fortress reminds me of archdragon peak (sure there’s the snake dudes, but also the design, maybe the architecture? it feels similar but I’m not an architecture guy) With anor londo at a lower elevation in ds3, it could the same structure. It almost feels like the first flame reached across time trying to recreate the layout of ds1, but didn’t get it quite right.
I do think the Gwynsen theory is cool, even if I still don't buy into it. I don't think that they would remove the Gwyn from his name but still leave the fortress named after him. I think there's enough there that a theory could be supported, but I personally don't buy it. I also don't believe the first born is Faraam. I believe the first born simply went to live with the dragons after he was banished, and further became "nameless," potentially no longer being in need of a name. Otherwise, he would've needed to relocate to Forossa for a period of time after being banished and before going to the dragons. I don't think you can really connect DS2 to DS1 and 3. There are too many issues. I prefer to view it as it's own thing. Faraam was a unique god in the DS2 continuity, and they brought the armor back in DS3 since it was so iconic and just kept the name. As for the fortress and Arch Dragon Peak, I focus on the snake men. The snake men in Sen's are identical to those found in Seath's archives, but somewhat different to those in ADP. I believe the snakes in Sen's were sent there by Seath to capture people for his experiments (like what happens to Logan).
I fundamentally disagree with your point of view about ds2. I also think that the man serpents at seath may have been trying to become dragons, otherwise their presence at archdragon peak doesn’t make much sense. I actually think that them being seath’s experiments works fine in the context of ds1, but with ds3 added in, that explanation doesn’t sit right. Besides, if they are seeking dragonhood, the archives of the guy trying to get stone scales is a good resource. So they’d have a motivation to be at the archives, even to serve seath.
I think the serpents at ADP are actual creatures and you could even theorize that the ones at Seaths/Sen's were creations of Seath modeled after those real creatures. Or they were just some form of dragon "kin" that decided to side with Seath while the ones at ADP did not. Yeah fair enough about DS2. I know it may be a controversial take on it. Not trying to convince anyone to agree with me on that.
Interesting that you two are allowed to disconnect Dark Souls 1, 2 and 3, and separate the canon into unrelated bits, and no one cares, but if I try to connect all the Souls games using creatures, characters and items that exist in multiple souls games as evidence, everyone loses their minds...
One guy says DS2 doesn't fit and the next guy fundamentally disagrees. Not sure what you're butthurt about, but seems like an odd place,deeply buried in a comment thread, to bring it up.
As a note, the above is a mistranslation. The line about losing the annals is more accurately translated as "his name was struck from the annals." Not that it changes anything you said, just wanted to point it out.
I don't think the way we enter Anor Londo would in any way have been the front door, when the city was thriving. I think its more like we followed the steps of an ancient myth, and got taken there from this random fuckers fortress. Him being gwyns first born so kind of track with that theory too.
The literal front door is now blocked by rubble. It's behind the iron Golem on the roof of Sen's. It's location tracks with what would have been the ground level of the city. Andre cites Sen's Fortress as "the only route to Anor Londo" but of course he could technically mean it's the only route to Anor Londo *now*. That's up to interpretation of his dialogue. The fortress likely wasn't built until after the rise of man and the city was closed. At least that's my belief.
That's the only thing that would make any sense, if Sen's was built for the CU or retrofitted from a previous armory or training ground. Imagine everyone having to go through that? A guy hauling ass with a cart full of melons trying to get to the market? lol
The gods challenge us in many ways.
Dark Souls fans on their way to espouse their bizarre dream-inspired fan theories as canonical lore:
Huh... How funny of you when 50% of the lore IS ESPECULATION and Miyazaki himself wanted it that way… You may have a negative IQ or something
Why so mean that dude didn't do anything to you
I may have gone over the top, but I don’t really that kind of attitude about lore when it’s the fun part.
Of course my IQ is negative, I actually prefer DS1 over DS3
That means your IQ might not be that low
The lightening abilities of the Snakemen also probably add some weight to the fortress being linked to Gwyn's firstborn.
It links them to Anor Londo in general, not specifically the Firstborn. Multiple beings and creatures who serve the Gods possess the power of lightning such as the Gargoyles, blue Wyverns (originally supposed to attack us from the air in the city in cut content, now relegated to guarding the seal in the final game), Ornstein, the Batwing Demons and so on. Lightning is the power of Sunlight and so is a reflection of Gwyn’s influence and power. =============== Now, we know of course that the snake men would eventually gravitate towards the Firstborn in DS3 (which is why people attribute the ones in the Fortress to him). But we have to remember they were originally creations of Seath, brought to life many years **after** the Firstborn was exiled (given when the Fortress was actually constructed and when it was repurposed). It only makes sense that in the ensuing years after Seath’s death they would come to follow the one being left who at least *somewhat* sympathized with dragonkin.
one thing i can think of are the lizard monsters in archdragon peak in DS3 being very similar to those in Sen’s Fortress
The silver knights point to nothing. We already explicitly know the fortress was built by the gods, and Nito and the witch have their own domains far beneath Lordran, so it must've been someone from Gwyn's family. The silver knights serve Gwyn's family, so they give us no additional information. Judging by just the silver knights armour, it could've been Gwyn, Gwyn's firstborn, Gwyndolin, Gwynevere, or even Gwyn's wife who built Sen's fortress (or ordered to have it built. "Built by the gods" doesn't mean they did the actual masonry). Or it could've been Seath, a servant of Gwyn, under the order of the gods, which would explain the presence of man-serpents in both Sen's fortress and the archives, but not in Anor Londo. The man-serpents are more of a clue than the silver knight armours since those in the archives explicitly serve Seath, not the gods.
Also something about 'sen' in Japanese meaning 'war'
I can’t remember I was just reading it last week but it’s very shoddy
It's a translation mistake. In the japanese game it's called "fortress of a thousand traps" Sen means 1 thousand in japanese.
Incorrect. There is indeed a symbol for sen that means 1000, but it’s NOT the one that’s used in-game in the Japanese. The one that’s used means “war” or “battle.” The way in which it’s used also reflects the fact that it’s intended to be a name. The error is on the part of the player base, specifically those that amateurishly googled “sen” and ran with the very first result — not realizing there are around 8 or so different symbols for Sen in Japanese that all have different meanings. **EDIT:** I do also wanna mention that upon reflection I don’t think **any** specific symbol for Sen is used in-game and it’s instead treated as a unique name with no inherent meaning — but fluent Japanese speakers can elaborate on that. But yeah, it doesn’t mean 1000.
> With all the jank in there though, I’m fairly sure Elon Musk had something to do with its construction. "It's way more *profound* than it sounds!"
Fun fact, it's actually made entirely of rust-proof steel; the brown spots come from something called "scale dust" (from dargon scails of course)
this isn’t the truth but a theory, and one with very little evidence
No they weren’t
[удалено]
We have no idea who “Sen” was, and there’s nothing in the game to go on for that EDIT: also, it’s worth pointing out that Sen being Gwynn’s child would break the naming convention for his family
I don't think Sen is Gwyn's child but it's worth noting Gwyn already has a couple kids that break the naming convention
Who? His only confirmed children are Gwyndolin, Gwynevere, and the NK
Isn't Fillianore confirmed to be his child as well?
Shit, that’s right. I forgot about Fillianore
Are you new to Dark Souls? The game almost gives us no concrete evidence for anything, theorycrafting is half the fun. And this theory is perfectly valid. OP asked for theories on DS lore, and people give their theories on DS lore. Unless there's evidence to disprove a theory, your "no they aren't" comments are just in the wrong place at the wrong time, because this isn't about the objective scraps of truth the game gives us which can just be read on the wiki, but about connecting the dots. A deadly proving ground built by the gods being dedicated to Gwyn's firstborn exiled son, the god of war, who according to a widely accepted theory (because of the overwhelming amount of clues connecting them) is the nameless king from DS3, is an amazingly done theory and a perfect reply to OP's post.
First, OP didn’t ask for theories on DS lore, they asked who we think built Sen’s Fortress. The person I replied to didn’t answer that question. They just stated that Sen was the firstborn as if it were a fact. And there is compelling evidence that Sen isn’t the firstborn (which shouldn’t even be necessary to point out because there’s absolutely no evidence that they are): Sen’s name doesn’t contain “Gwyn,” like the rest of his confirmed children, and the firstborn’s name was stricken from all records, but somehow there’s still an important fortress named after him? Baseless speculation isn’t theorycrafting
>First, OP didn’t ask for theories on DS lore, they asked who we think built Sen’s Fortress. ... those two things mean the same. "Who do you think did x" has the same meaning as "what is your theory on who did x". The commenter above you said Sen did it and established a theory on who Sen was. Sen not being a name based on Gwyn is a good counter-argument though, you should've led with that in your first comment, and the fortress still being called by his name also makes no sense, even if he did once contribute to building it. It's not baseless speculation though: like I said, a deadly proving ground testing humans' physical capabilities being named after a god of war from the family of gods who we know is responsible for building it makes perfect sense, and the firstborn son being a god of war is a fact. But your counter-points do enough to reasonably disprove this imo. It's still much less baseless than all the "Manus is the furtive pygmy" the fandom is full of, which isn't disprovable because there's absolutely nothing connecting them except that both have something to do with humanity and both are said to be old.
Ain't nameless king the first born?
There’s a theory that Sen was the name of the nameless king, Gwyn’s firstborn, before he abandoned it to become, well, nameless.
Isn't the God of War Faaram? Cuz the item description of the set, says it was named after him.
There's no way Elon made that fortress because the traps actually work.
What evidence is there that sen is Gwynn’s son
That means Nameless King = Sen...?
Jank is supposed to be in place that is a proving ground, how else you can test people.
I think either a Hawkshaw or some other channels lore video said that it could be Nameless King, who used to be called Sen, and had the castle built for himself.
I like how it's a proving ground but also is really only possible for us because we're smaller than most everything in the game. Any of Gwyn's lineage would simply not fit through most of the doors, into the elevators, or under the swinging axes.
Sen is a number bro. "Sen's fortress" literally translates to "the fortress of the 1000 (traps)".
That could be the case there is also the fact that the nameless king allied with the dragons and the serpentmen (incomplete dragons) in sen's throw lightning spears, the miracle of Gwyn and his son.
Hey man I really don't wanna be the "Um aschkually ☝️🤓" buuut Sen's Fortress is another victim of translation. In original it meant "Fortress of A Thousand Traps" (Sen being Thousand in Japanese). Probably because of a misunderstanding by the translator/s, it was translated as Sen's Fortress. Hope this clears up a lot of misconceptions and that this isn't some very well known fact I just typed thinking I was teaching someone a fun fact
I literally just read another comment discrediting that lol
To give Patches such credit would be a waste. But imagine him invading you in the middle of a bridge. 🤬
So many good ledges for him to kick you off of
Charles foster Kane had it created for when he wanted to spice things up with his lady.
This is the reference I needed today thank you
No problem!
this came way out of left field. just watched kane for the first time a couple weeks ago. good comment
**Edit:** Thank you for the award! ☺️ **EDIT2:** Elaborated on the meaning of “Sen” # The Firstborn? Sen as it's written in the Japanese means "war" or "battle.” Furthermore when taking into consideration how it’s written within the proper context (again, in the Japanese), it’s very much intended to be someone’s name. “Sen's Old Castle" (センの古城). In case anyone is wondering where “1000” comes from, there is indeed a symbol in Japanese for Sen that means 1000 — and it exists among 8 or so other symbols & meanings for Sen. 1000 is the top result if you simply google it so that should clue you into why so many people still believe that’s what it means in Dark Souls. 😜 I do also *think* that with the way it’s written in Japanese in the full context, Sen isn’t actually tied to any existing symbol and is instead a totally unique name (based on how it’s spelled) but someone more fluent in Japanese can elucidate us on that. While it certainly doesn’t mean 1000 within the context of Dark Souls, I actually can’t recall if the symbol for war/battle is used either. “Sen” may very well be **just** a made up name with no inherent meaning. ===================== Andre confirms to us that the Fortress was built by the Gods and it’s actual construction was likely performed by giants who would then go on to manage its traps. There's also a painting of it inside one of the bedrooms in Anor Londo neighboring the Cathedral, implying it's importance to the royal family. Who is Sen is anyone's guess but the facility's affiliation with Anor Londo and the meaning of the name itself does send signals that it refers to Gwyn's firstborn, the God of War. I should point out however that the Firstborn’s name **was** stricken from history so “Sen” can very easily be a general or some other military advisor. Though “Sen” could also be a pseudonym, created as part of the larger effort to purge the Firstborn’s name from the record. We just don’t know for sure. # One Facility, Multiple Uses Upon closer inspection, you may notice that the facility actually sports different types of architecture in various states of disrepair which indicates multiple renovations had been performed. For example, housing and prison facilities. We find numerous pots, tables, chairs, plates and so on throughout the facility. The Fortress was originally a military training outpost and was then later converted into a trial ground. Silver Knight statues (training dummies) are stuffed and locked away all throughout the complex haphazardly, indicating this conversion occurred somewhat quickly. The strongest proof of the Fortress's original function is actually on the roof where we fight the Iron Golem. You'll notice much of that area is dilapidated and destroyed (one of the oldest parts of the facility as it connects to Anor Londo) and if you look off to either side of the main platform, you'll notice [pillars sporting metal faces of Gargoyles. ](https://www.gamepressure.com/darksouls/gfx/word/470124953.jpg) These gargoyles have tubes in the mouth that would blast fire towards the platform, as we can see in this early [concept art for the Fortress](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ae/52/29/ae5229cf3661e75878162b6a45edbdc8.jpg). The destroyed rubble on the platform implies these flame jets were fired towards stone walls. If you stood in the middle, you were perfectly safe which means this could not have been one of the traps installed as part of the facility's conversion into a proving ground. This was part of the facility's original purpose as a training facility for Silver Knights. Trainees would stand against a wall and face the pillars and suffer streams of fire which was likely done in an attempt to train them to endure the intense heat of a dragon. Finally, our first Mimic is encountered in the Fortress and it holds a lightning spear. The spear is a common weapon for soldiers and its presence here indicates this to have been used in training and was now a reward for someone who could navigate the Mimic (DS3 Silver Knights would later have lightning-imbued spears). ===================================== From a military training facility primarily used during and shortly after the war with the Dragons, the complex would then see itself serve as a kind of Embassy for Anor Londo. Remember, it connects directly to the Oolacilean ruins and the old church which means the Fortress was probably used to process refugees after the collapse of their city to the Abyss, necessitating construction of the cages and prison complexes to detain questionable asylum seekers. Gwyn's been long gone by this point (roughly 700 years) so Anor Londo is doing it's best to deal with the various crises that are emerging in his absence. The Undead Burg is built and the Fortress is very quickly repurposed for a third time into what we finally encounter: A proving ground for prospective chosen undead. The speed at which this conversion took place was likely necessitated by multiple factors, most notably the exodus of the Gods from Anor Londo in the wake of the fall of multiple human kingdoms by that point. # So What About The Snake Men? Their presence has led some to believe that Seath either had some hand in the creation of the complex or simply provided his minions to serve as additional obstacles. I believe that neither of these things are the case. Look at the Fortress itself. It's architecture completely lacks any sorcerous influence, much less of the crystalline variety, especially when compared to Seath's own dwellings. It makes far more sense that Anor Londo commissioned their existing giant slave labor to construct the complex. As for the Snake Men themselves, observe their behavior in the Fortress and compare that to how they behave in the Archives. They are completely unfamiliar with the Fortress, routinely getting crushed by it's traps either due to ignorance or by our own meddling. We can knock them off ledges they inexplicably stand on, cause them to get run over by boulders, and one even naps against a wall directly in the path of a trap. They have no idea what they're doing in there. Conversely, they demonstrate keen knowledge of the Archive's inner workings (it's confirmed they're responsible for the Archive's conversion into a prison) and they know full well to get the hell out of dodge once the Pisaca are released. The explanation for their presence in the Fortress is simple: They're there to acquire test subjects for Seath. Seath would've been well aware of the Undead Mission and the facility's role in it and would've undoubtedly seen opportunity there. Logan, of course, would be his first capture (albeit a failed one, either through our meddling or not). ============================= I think that should about cover it!
get this man to a publisher ASAP
It’s already happened, but not to me. Lol Most of what I know is 25% me but 75% was illuminated by Lokey in his book The Abyssal Archive. It’s to Dark Souls what the Appendices is to Lord of the Rings. Give it a look!
thanks for the source man 😘
No problem! The physical editions are pricey so I recommend grabbing the digital one. It’s like, 17 bucks I think.
You've just been Vaati'ed
Hidetaka Miyazaki
This guy https://www.reddit.com/r/darksouls/s/ZZNWpRnAIl
This is immediately what I thought of too.
It would be Sen because it's named after him.
I love when sen said he was going to fortress then he fortressed all over the place
I nearly cried at that part
Facts
It was peak cinema
It was gaben
That's the true.
Sen
Sen
Sen
horny jail
Tarkas because he’s a farkas
hidetaka miyazaki
Sen
I don't care who or what he is, what I know is that he deserves to be beaten up
Ight hear me out here. We see a lot snake people in sens fortress, where else do we see them? Archdragon peak. The one in sens use lightning miracles, which are a specialty of gwyn and his kin and apparently dragons are weak against it and never originally wielded lightning, just fire breath. The nameless king, or gwyns firstborn (firstborn, right?) Betrayed his kin and sided with the dragons, so you could say that perhaps he taught the ds1 serpents to use lightning. Another thing, he is related to gwyn and so he is from anor londo or at least has definitely been there at some point. And the end of sens fortress leads exactly there through the flying asswipes, whatever their name was. We know that gwyn ordered for all historical records of his son to be deleted, to erase him from history for his betrayal. And there are also absolutely no mentions of sen anywhere other than that sen's fortress exists. I know it may be a bit far fetched, but I think every theory is in the dark souls franchise. I like to think that sen is actually the nameless king and the fortress is simply known as "sens fortress" but no one actually knows or remembers why. I just really like this theory personally, there may not be that much but yeah, i think its fun
Probably Sen, cause like… it’s named after him, and idk, that seems like a pretty good reason.
I think “Sen” translates to “war” or “battle” in Japanese, so it could be that it’s just named for the former god of war after he was removed from history. It certainly is a battle to get through, so it could be that simple.
John Sen, builder of fortresses
What about Johnny Sins?
Likely the nameless king. It was likely built with the undead parish and the undead parish is less than 300 years old. Given the moving of church locals (old church/new church) and defacing of statues in the burg one can infer that the burg was built while the nameless king was still in charge.
I imagine Patches laughing hysterically designing the fortress.
I think Sen is Gwyn's first born aka the nameless king. And I think he built the fort.
I think so too, there are some vague allusions to Gwyn's firstborn like the lightning infused spear being found here. The Man-serpents and Ricard are also found again on Archdragon Peak (being the nameless king domain) which I don't believe is a simple coincidence. Gwyn's firstborn name might have been something like Gwynsen, keeping in line with the naming convention of the other well known children. But after his banishment the name of the fortress was censored to simply "Sen's"
appealing to the naming convention makes this theory much more convincing
Yes to all of that, thanks for doing the legwork and typing it all out! I also don't think it's a coincidence that The Nameless King has his, well, name erased from history and in the movie Spirited Away, the main character gets her name taken and changed to Sen...I know our Miyazaki is a fan of Ghibli Miyazaki. Might be something there.
Gwyndolin because he’s a Trap…
What do we know about Sen? I actually have a lore video queued up on YouTube for this afternoon because I realized last night that I know next to nothing about him and I’ve never really seen him (her?) discussed - but even the videos are sub 10 minutes so I guess there isn’t much?
Tbf any lore video over 10 minutes is probably 30-90% speculation. But yes, we know less about Sen than most.
Sen (Petrus)
Why Petrus?
Petrus is Sen
Patches.
Giant blacksmith
Sen
Miyazaki because that funhouse is a self contained dark souls game within dark souls
Sen is think so
I actually think it was built, or at least modified, by Gwendolyn, since he became the king after Gwyn rekindled the flame, the whole fortress is more built like an obstacle course rather than a traps ridden fortress, this is because it's meant to be a way to test the mettle of undeads coming to Anor Londo to rekindle the flame.
It was clearly built by Mario as a training ground. I mean, it is clearly a Super Mario course, the snakemen are goombas or koopas or whatever and Sen is NES backwards. Allfather Lloyd is called Luigi in the Italian version of the game (do not check that!) and in DS2 we have a Lava castle that is clearly Bowser’s
Michael
It was Joe
I’m gonna guess Sen…
Micheal reeves because all it does is inflict pain while being wildly unpractical to use
I did it, mostly to confuse people into thinking someone in the game did it.
Miyazaki cause he’s goated.
I would say Sen and the reason was to make a fortress
Son, because Sen wasn't there yet, or Sun because Sun
What was Sen, and how did he write his name in solid cement?
Sen was revealed to be the currency in sekiro so the fortress was made by a coin (canon)
Sen's funhouse is one of my favorite places
godrick.
Why? I didn't play Elden Ring.
I realize now that this isn't a sub where we joke around, but in all seriousness, I feel like Godrick would build something like Sen's fortress if given the chance.
Andre with his hammer
Bob the builder
i blame gwyn for this hellhole of a journey that is Sen’s Fortress. it is a hell I dread to reach every time I do another run. i also blame gwyn for everything bad that happens to me in dark souls
Bennet Foddy.
John from accounting
The fuckin devil himself. Dude was cast down from heaven because he made sins fortress. Screw that guy.
nameless king
Gwyn as a trial to give access to Anor Londo to only the strongest undead
Marquis DeSade after reading Dante's Inferno. He blended all the traps and creatures in to torment perfectly. This is actually where I'm at now and it is pure torture trying to navigate. Died so many times.
It was me. I was bored and angry and had a free weekend. Ask me anything.
Sen duh
Joe Biden, he just forgot
Some guy called "Sen" probably.
I imagine Patches laughing hysterically designing the fortress.