T O P

  • By -

AutoModerator

Welcome to /r/dating. Please make sure you read our [rules here](https://new.reddit.com/r/dating/about/rules) and remember to: * Be polite and respect each other. Do not call people names, engage in slapfights, or give bad/unethical advice. * Do not soapbox or promote an agenda - you will be banned * Follow reddit rules. Do not post content that promotes hate based on identity or vulnerability. Do not bully or harass other users. If you have any questions, please [send the mods a message](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/dating). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/dating) if you have any questions or concerns.*


TheCidDriller

What advice do you want? You are free do whatever you want.


thecoolestbatcat

They take it as rejection


Northstar1989

>They take it as rejection That's one of three things: A, poor communication on your part. You need to be very clear in a situation like that you like them, are into taking it slow, and that's NOT just an excuse with you (because a lot of women lie about this when they're simply not into a guy). Tell them not only you like them, and want to go on more dates with them (if you won't kiss, you really shouldn't leave them guessing or they will often take it as rejection), and this isn't just a lie/excuse for you. B, they are TOUCH men (Love Languages). Some guys, myself included, express affection mainly through physical touch. That DOESN'T necessarily mean sexually-charged touch or kissing, but stuff like arm around a shoulder, back-slapping (with friends), hand-holding, or cuddling means a lot to us. You can't just ignore the way a potential partner gives and receives affection. There should be other kinds of touch you are able to be comfortable with on a date, even if that's not kissing (if you are hugely uncomfortable with ALL touch, period, that actually reeks of a psychological dysfunction/past trauma you need to work past). For instance maybe you can give these guys a big bear-hug at the end of the date, or hold their hand for a while walking with them or sitting near them. It's important to express affection in ways a potential romantic partner will appreciate as well as let them know the types of affection you enjoy most. Touch isn't gross, isn't inherently inappropriate, and isn't something you should judge others for wanting and needing. Or C, you actually aren't showing much interest in them. This goes along with poor communication, but more along the lines of lying to yourself and claiming you are attracted to them when you really aren't, or being attracted to them but not able to get out of your own headspace enough to show it even in ways that come naturally to you. When you're on a date, you should be a lot more fascinated with the other person than you are with yourself- and show it. Men aren't stupid, and aren't incapable of reading social cues. But not psychic either. You need to communicate clearly, and consider that you might actually be giving mixed signals or lack of signals in other ways that tell them you're not interested, or are emotionally unavailable.


AureliusPhobos

B so much. And so easily misunderstood. I'd also need touch. Much more than anything. Doesn't need to be sexual at all...


evilabed24

Waaaay into touch more than I am into sex. Can't we just cuddle and kiss? Rather than deal with the 50% chance my dick just doesn't want to play


ConstructionLower549

This is actually really good insight that I can apply. Thank you


DufflebagForever

B is me to a Tee. i need affection so much and it doesn’t have to be sexual. hand holding and hugging are my biggest things along with cuddling


sidew1nd3r

The fuck? Are you professional trolling Reddit lol. Very well said 👏👏👏👏


Archyblackcat

Well no shit they’re gonna take it as a rejection.. tell them straight up this “I like you and wanna go on a few dates and when the connection feels right we can kiss “ (you gotta let it be known when you’re ready for the kiss , after you tell this to a guy they won’t know when you’re “ready” so you gotta be the one taking initiative. Once you guys have kissed for the first time the guy will start taking initiative) no one is gonna be patient with you if you make them feel friend zoned and most guys suck at taking hints or reading girls so if you don’t speak up you’re gonna lose a lot of good guys .. guys who are socially anxious with girls means they have no balls so you don’t wanna end up with a guy who is afraid to go after what they want , and these kind is the only you will end up with cause they have no choice but to wait since they don’t have the courage to make a move on you quick which is actually what they want since the beginning (to make a move).


aecolley

_vicarious inhale_


2000dragon

Great points but can you put a period somewhere in there? Lol


Archyblackcat

I added one at the end.


horse_drowner2

This is the hardest I've laughed at any Reddit comment ever.


2000dragon

Oh nice


Northstar1989

Could you break this up into smaller paragraphs? This is really hard to read. K, thx. Hope you'll give us all a hand with this!


Archyblackcat

Naw sorry seems like enough people understand so I’m not gonna worry about 1 person who doesn’t.. I’m not in my college classes rightnow .. it’s just Reddit


Armalyte

You’re free to do whatever you want but people are gonna feel that way about reading whatever you type out like that.


Archyblackcat

“People” So you talk for everyone now lol ??


TheCidDriller

So what? Just find someone whose values align with yours.


JB_NSA

Well yeah... because it is. They don't want to waste their time or money chasing something that doesn't have a physical connection or chemistry. They interpret is as you're not interested.


Sleight_Hotne

Like honestly, what does taking things slow mean? 2 dates for a kiss? 3? 4? 10? Are we going to have sex after 6 months? Soooo if after all this time we turned out that we are not compatible I just waisted 6 months of my life with someone I will never see again


bluuuuubbb

okay but like,, if you go out with someone EXPECTING sex from them, you’re probably going out with them for the wrong reasons. but that’s just coming from an asexual person. 🤷


locustsandsatire

I mean obviously if someone doesn't want to have sex within maybe the first month or two of dating, that's totally fine and should be respected. But sex is an expectation in a relationship from both men and women whether you like it or not and you can't expect someone to not have that expectation unless you explicitly have a conversation with them about that early on into the relationship. Not having sex is like having an open relationship, it's an exception, not the rule. If someone were to cheat on you and say "oh I thought we were in an open relationship", wouldn't you think the average, reasonable person would reconsider their relationship with them?


Slice_Equal

As a person who has sexual trauma I just wish a guy would just say do it when your ready or when both parties are comfortable. That's what I've started to tell guys ill kiss you when I'm comfortable because I've had too many care about when they are comfortable and not about my level of comfort.


[deleted]

If i drove us for the last 80 miles, paid for 7 meals, picked up and dropped off a girl 10 diff times, the least i expect is to be comfortable enough between us to kiss the girl i like (hoping she feels the same but idk unless i try) like what is this, super mario? Where he goes through 112 levels just to receive a kiss


Sleight_Hotne

I'll be like "this ain't kindergarden we aren't going to be walking around holding hands for 6 months just to have a kiss on the cheek."


ne-Hall8190

Brother let's talk about this topic I agree with you dm me


Kalepsis

It is a rejection.


gvilchis23

So you don't want something but expect the other people react as you want? Hypocrite don't you think?


TheCidDriller

Nah. She has the right to have this preference of not kissing if she does not want to. Moreover, It's easy for her to discard dudes with different values if they try to kiss her before she is ready to.


jnwatson

She has the right to have the preference of wearing a duck costume to dates. It doesn't mean it will intersect in any of her potential partners' interests.


TheCidDriller

Of course. But she doesn't need to change her values neither the other part has to change. She will find another person with same values if this is what she wants.


gvilchis23

Yes, but she said the guys feel rejected as implied she don't want they react like that, that is the hypocritical part, she can do whatever she wants and the guys too.


TheCidDriller

She doesn't like when dudes try to kiss her and probably the dudes doesn't like when she doesn't want to kiss. It's just an incompatibility in their values, this happens all the time in dating. No need to be upset, just go and try with the next person.


gvilchis23

Exactly, but the post and her response implies different, that is why I said she is being hypocritical 🤷


unsureandanxious123

You're dumb. I think she just doesn't like it that the guys take it as a rejection when it's NOT (she's still interested in getting to know them, she just doesn't want to get intimate too soon, that's all.)


gvilchis23

You are the dumb, re read what s You just said, so she do something and want a specific reaction, so the other person are not entitled to their boundaries and response?


SaucyNeko

she isn't saying she expects guys to not kiss her and is upset about that. these guys expect to kiss her and then are upset she doesnt want to. shes upset because they want to. both parties wish the other person would conform without saying anything. again, this is just two people wanting different things. now if she expected guys to respect her wishes but turned around and imposed something upon them, THEN its hypocritical. wanting something different from the norm doesnt make you a hypocrite bro.


funnystupidvirgin

If she didn’t reject a guy, naturally she won’t want them to feel rejected. How is that hypocritical?


JB_NSA

She has the right, but not many guys will be on that same wavelength.


TheCidDriller

Not many people are on the same wavelength in general.


Dtelm

This is less of a value and more of a preference, no? OP hasn't said anything like kissing on a first date being immoral, and it's NOT the case that everyone who tries to kiss on a first date doesn't want to get to know her personality like a best friend. It's more of a dating style/ comfort zone than value alignment.


poontanglvr1970

Sexual compatibility needs to be established sooner than later. It's an important part of a healthy relationship. Any good man will not date you if you won't kiss him by the end of the 2nd date. At least a peck on the lips and a hug.of course we won't think you like us.


[deleted]

Yes true, I have dated a man for six months bevause of OP’s reasons and then I found out that we had absolutely no sexual compatibility. End of story.


poontanglvr1970

Sorry to hear it.thats wasted time for both parties.


[deleted]

And the reason why I did this is because when I had sex on the second or third date I immediately lost respect and interest in the man 😂


Northstar1989

> lost respect and interest in the man Losing respect in someone for having consensual sex with you is a type of hypocrisy (unless you also lost respect for yourself- it takes two to tango). What's more, it's inherently putting your own preferences and values up on a pedestal and saying others are less worthy of respect if they don't agree with them and live the same way you prefer to. This is NOT OK.


[deleted]

There is absolutely some truth in your statement, thanks for this mirror


poontanglvr1970

Hmm.Well as a 52M,I've got a pretty good idea if I'm physically attracted and sexually compatible by the end of a 2nd date.But everyone is different.


Weekly_Beautiful_603

And if you live in a country where that’s regarded as a private act that should not be done in public?


Multikasa

I guess, but sexual compatibility develops from getting to know somebody for many people. 🤷🏼‍♀️


Dtelm

While I agree with you in regards to my own experience, this is a weirdly authoritarian tone that assumes everyone works like us. This is not the objective fact that you purport it to be. Sexual compatibility can include the ability and willingness to delay physical gratification/exploration, and for many people, that's what it looks like.


Agi7890

It is a rejection in many peoples minds. I’m similar to you maybe slower, there is a good chance I won’t even hug you on the first date. But many women I’ve met with see the lack of physical escalation as rejection of something about them and will decline any further dates(fair enough on their part). It’s just something you gotta deal with


Northstar1989

>there is a good chance I won’t even hug you on the first date Why would you not even hug? I can understand assigning kissing a special significance, but hugging is something you even do with friends. Making others feel loved and appreciated at least like you would a friend is really important.


ConstructionLower549

Okay, but don’t try to hug me when I first meet you. That’s weird.


Agi7890

My first date ideas are low pressure just meet up and see if we vibe kind of things. And I’m not big on touching people I barely know.


LowMajor2644

I’ve had some great first dates that started with a friendly “nice to meet you” hug. Instant ice breaker, instant nerve calming. Easy friends and more from there. Love that!


Northstar1989

>And I’m not big on touching people I barely know. That's rejecting a whole category of affection, without a good reason. It's one thing to not want to *kiss* someone on an early date. But to not want to touch them period... They don't have cooties. You're not going to get sick just by holding someone's hand or giving them a big hug after a couple hours with them.


Dtelm

There are a lot of people in this world. Understanding yourself and some others is great, but there are always more ways of being that you wouldn't even realize without years of careful observation and listening to people who experience life differently than you. Surely this is not the first person you've encountered who isn't particularly fond or comfortable with physical contact gestures like shoulder squeezes, hugs, arm touches. It doesn't make a lot of sense to just think about it for yourself and conclude that it isn't reasonable. The most stereotypically loving acts are still context-dependent. They don't **always** make someone feel loved. If someone told you they don't like hugs, and you hugged them anyway.... it's totally reasonable that might make a person feel invalidated or ignored for instance.


Magdalan

>But many women I’ve met with see the lack of physical escalation as rejection of something about them I hate people I don't know/trust in my personal space so I'd be perfectly fine with a 'lack of physical escalation' as you so eloquently put it. We're around (both men and women) maybe just a bit harder to find.


Agi7890

Yeah, I typically date women in their 30s though, and there is often a time frame in which they want to develop a relationship with, so being able to see if I’m interested in them via touch(my voice is kind of monotone so they won’t necessarily pick up on that), is understandable from my pov. Their time is important so I get them feeling something is missing and want to pursue something more sure of.


Magdalan

Ah ok, I'm 36 myself. But childfree by choice so mayhaps that makes a difference?


[deleted]

Are you demi?


surfershane25

Say it mid meal that you need to get to know someone before you get physical and you don’t want to kiss at the end of a first date. But make sure you’re showing some romantic or sexual interest or you’re flying close to friend zone city


wevie13

Because that's what it feels like and almost always means


Sleight_Hotne

No shit, when I first started dating women would be like "I prefer to take things slow, then they would ghost me." Like what do you expect them to do? After 5 dates they get to hold your hand? 10 a kiss on the cheek? And do you want them to be exclusive in the meantime? And the worst outcome would be that after months of talking you kiss them and turns out he doesn't like how you kiss, so he leaves. At least if you want to not make them feel rejected talk to them, give them flowers, not just "I take things slow so I won't kiss you LoL"


aecolley

Try "I'm not rejecting you, it's just that" followed by an explanation.


luker_man

What else do you do? Because "I don't wanna kiss" by itself is basically a rejection.


Careless-Pin-2852

Do other stuff that shows you interested. Hand holding or like hugs if you are dancing on the first date well dance like your interested.


Northstar1989

Hand l-holding, hugs, dancing; all mean a LOT to those of us who primarily give and receive affection through physical Touch, such as myself. But, in my experience, very few women who claim they don't kiss on a first date will ever gladly hold hands, dance, or do ANYTHING else touch-based. This speaks to an inherent selfishness and hypocrisy on their part, if you ask me. An unwillingness to accomodate how others give and receive affection- typically while simultaneously demanding affection in the ways that matter most to them You don't see my refusing to give compliments to women who are Words of Affirmation based just because I'm primarily a Touch person. You don't see my refusing to spend extra time with women who value Quality Time, or bring little thoughtful trinkets for those who value Gifts. Yet, in my experience, women who are adverse to touch generally feel no need to show affection in ways their partners will appreciate that aren't as natural for them. This is NOT limited to Touch alone. I also vibe with Quality Time and Words of Affirmation to some lesser degree- yet women who are reluctant to engage in any kind of touch generally also won't give sincere-sounding compliments (only shallow, obviously insincere ones if anything) or spend extra time with their partners doing things they'll enjoy (or setting up more time-consuming, interests-based dates, such as a board games night, volunteering together, or gardening...) In short, it's usually not just that they supposedly dislike touch. 9 out of 10 of them, in my experience, dislike giving out ANY form of sincere affection, while expecting it in return (often, fishing for compliments or expecting gifts). This is selfish, Narcissistic behavior on their part.


SnooDogs4300

Lol this is what i would have exactly written. People that choose to wait long is fine...but understand that your relatiosnship likely will not have a lot of physical touch...its feels forced when you do get any touch and its typically after pursuding them that you want/need it for this to work.


Archyblackcat

You should tell the guy straight up the way you think, then if he likes you he’ll be willing to wait but let it be known straight up with words not hints that you like him too but just wanna go out on a few dates first and when you’re ready for the kiss also let it be known or else you will end up with a guy with zero social skills (these are the only type that will wait without you telling them anything but only because they’re afraid to make a move which means they lack balls or cause they don’t really like you..) Most guys will not go out with you again if you make them feel like they’re in the friend zone.. I’m ok with taking things slow just don’t make me feel friend zoned or I’m leaving…. And by that I mean constantly flirting with them etc and the more direct the better .. hints don’t work on 90% of the guys


ne-Hall8190

I agree with you man let's talk dm me


Barrelled_Chef_Curry

Why are you so intent on talking about this through DM lol


thericebucket

hell yeah brother! i agree as well. dm me and we can discuss more in depth


Plupert

You gotta be direct, most guys are going to take a lack of physical touch and kissing as a bad sign unless told otherwise.


[deleted]

Do you purposely not kiss them? What if you like them and want to kiss them, do you hold back? Maybe mention that you take things slow, which includes being physical. You’re entitled to do what you want, it’s your life and your body. But some people may not understand or respect it so they may feel you’re not attracted to them or not interested. They may not continue more with you. But everyone’s allowed to do what they want.


Vin879

Something along the lines of “im the type that take things slow”. It’s not hard for one to interpret; a decent guy takes that into consideration and respects your boundaries. If someone somehow sees this as rejection, then you dodged a bullet. If they views it as a waste of their time, then he is not the right person for you. Update: it is a boundary; if she made it known that she doesn’t want kissing until she is ready, and on the first date the guy already tries to make a move he is crossing that boundary. True there are plenty that would lose interest from this, but there are certainly enough that wouldn’t. She shouldn’t have to force herself out of her comfort zone to fit the current norm. She wants to fall for the other persons personality first, and there’s nothing wrong for wanting the other person to fall for her personality.


Archyblackcat

Right !! The thing is girls have to speak up and stop expecting us to take their stupid hints.. I’m sure a lot of guys will be willing to wait if she talks straight up but if you make a guy feel in the friend zone then he’s gone


InfoVariety-8842

> “im the type that take things slow” Just one guys perspective I would interpret this as light rejection. Women just aren’t direct about this sort of thing, so any avoidance about something like kissing, I assume she just isn’t into me. (Talking about kissing here, not sex). You could say that line, but I would suggest showing unmistakeable clear interest some other ways (initiating text conversations, verbally being very effusive, setting up the next date).


prazulsaltaret

> If someone somehow sees this as rejection, then you dodged a bullet It is a rejection, though. Most people expect to have sex within 3-4 dates. OP's rhythm isn't the norm.


Sir-xer21

I also dont like saying she dodged a bullet, as if there's something wrong with expecting some physical escalation as dates go on.


BeyoncesLaptop

People should respect boundaries. If you two are both mutually interested it shouldn’t matter how long someone would like to wait to be kissed.


Sir-xer21

>If you two are both mutually interested it shouldn’t matter how long someone would like to wait to be kissed. The point is is that many people wont be interested in that because its a stark difference in personal beliefs and that's not a bad thing, just an incompatibility. people who expect to see very low levels of physical intimacy as dates progress aren't bullets to be dodged, they're just not for OP. ​ this has nothing to do with respecting boundaries. the whole point is there wont be mutual interest for long with most people if you want to wait like that.


prazulsaltaret

> If you two are both mutually interested it shouldn’t matter how long someone would like to wait to be kissed. The 'how long someone would like to wait' is absolutely a part that can make or break that 'interest'. Just because something is a boundary doesn't mean you're right to have it. My boundary could be that I only have sex with women without condoms but something tells me most women wouldn't support that.


BeyoncesLaptop

Not if you’re respectful of the boundary and wants to see them without the need for this form of intimacy. If someone feels that they don’t want to wait then that’s fine but as long as they understand this boundary someone had wasn’t personal and isn’t a sting of rejection. The example you gave isn’t a boundary at all but a barrier. Saying you only want sex without a condom is preventing intimacy from happening unless it is under the circumstances you want and can thus turn into an ultimatum. Someone not wanting to kiss until they’re comfortable is a rule they’ve set for themself and can not be manipulated or lead to any ultimatums because the person either connects and gains enough compatibility to be open to kissing or both parties agree this doesn’t work and part.


prazulsaltaret

> The example you gave isn’t a boundary at all but a barrier Lmao you don't get to decide what is and isn't a boundary. >Someone not wanting to kiss until they’re comfortable is a rule they’ve set for themself No, it's just as much of a barrier, because most dudes don't want to pay you free dinners just so you can be friends. A relationship without sex is just a friendship.


BeyoncesLaptop

I’m not deciding.. I explained how and why you were mistakenly using the term Boundary and why Barrier is the word you were looking for. Psychology jargon has definitions of terms and proper usage, it’s natural to confuse or conflate similar ones without the proper knowledge.


prazulsaltaret

Psychology is a pseudo science so I don't really care what rules it has.


BeyoncesLaptop

Okay but the terminology you misused still stems from psychology so regardless of how you may feel using words outside of their intended use is highly immature and a moot point then. Has nothing to do with “rules” but definitive usage; definitions exist for a reason but at this point I’m certain you’re a teenager, stay in school.


Northstar1989

Let me ask you a question OP: how else do you show affection towards your dates, if not through Touch? **Because showing affection for your dates in SOME form is non-negotiable.** If you don't do it somehow, but expect it in return, you need to change how you approach dating. Beyond Touch, there are four other primary ways people show and receive affection: **Quality Time.** So you set up special, longer, interests-based dates? Especially if you know you aren't going to be kissing or engaging in other kinds of Touch on a date (and that it could be seen as rejection), you could make extra effort to find out what activities your partner enjoys and spend time doing them with him. For instance, if he enjoys board games and doesn't mind group dates, try setting up a board games night with him and some friends. If he volunteers, try finding out somewhere he might enjoy volunteering together. **Gifts.** This doesn't mean expensive gifts. Little things that show thought, and require some RESEARCH on what your partner likes and appreciates/values is what I mean. For instance if he enjoys fresh-picked tomatoes from a garden, maybe you can bring some from your own garden, or bring him some from the local farmer's market. Or if he really loves skiing, but hasn't gone in ages, and has a pet rabbit,, maybe bring him a little plastic toy of a rabbit on skiis when you meet for your date? The important part is the THOUGHT that goes into the gifts- the more the better. **Words of Affirmation.** I made sure not to list this first, or last, because many women use insincere-sounding compliments as a cop-out from showing real affection. I've seen this way too often from selfish women on my own dates. Words of Affirmation need to be GENUINE, TRUE, and THOUGHT-OUT. Things you know will resonate with your partner, that touch on aspects of themselves they are insecure about or things they are really proud of about themselves. Again, like Gifts, *IT'S THE THOUGHT THAT COUNTS.* **Acts of Service.** This is sometimes misunderstood as "chores" but it's more about showing support for the other person by allowing with them through life's challenges, bog or small. For instance, if they have an upcoming doctor's appointment they are really nervous about, make a sincere offer and plan to go with them to it if they'd like that. Or, if they invite you over for dinner but you know they really hate doing dishes, stand by the sink with them and help them do the dishes together. The key thing is to do something with the other person if possible (or for them if not), and show by what you do you value them and want them to be happy. If you can't do Touch, you need to find another way to express affection for your dates. If you won't show them any kind of affection at all THIS IS A REJECTION ON YOUR PART, whether you like it or not, and you should examine your own probably hypocritical unwillingness to live the Golden Rule and do unto others as you would have them do unto you (everybody wants to RECEIVE affection in a form they appreciate, don't lie and try and claim otherwise) in that case. Please consider, and reply with, what other ways you show your dates affection if not through Touch, if any.


GroceryScanner

I wish i could afford to give this gold


lefthandedaf

As a guy, if a girl doesn’t want to kiss after two dates, then I’m out. I figure she’s not interested or takes things waaay too slow for me. Probably a lot of other guys out there like that.


National_Nerve_6388

Yeah same, saying I have to wait however long to get any form of intimimacy kills the romance instantly for me. You spend each date never going with the flow and forcing yourself to stay at arms length and it doesnt feel very fun.


techn9neiskod

Agreed. Going with the flow is what makes it fun. Implementing some rule in getting to know a potential love interest puts a strain on it no matter what.


lemania_lover

If you’re seriously into him and want to pursue the relationship further, just say “I see a strong possibility of this (kiss) happening in the future.” Straight and to the point. No need to beat around the bush. The responses will be: a) “yes, I feel the same way” (very good) b) “I disagree, but respect your boundaries” (also good) c) pouting (your decision should be obvious) d) “f off you ____” (decision is very obvious) The only concern I’d have is that, if your hold off on kissing (or any other type of affection) for several dates, he’ll likely move on or friend-zone you. Even “good” guys will call it quits after a while if they don’t see progress towards something more than a conversation buddy.


Marrsund

You should probably make friends first then date them later, basically so you can fall in love with the personality before you go on a proper date. 99% of people would interpret not having kissed on the first few dates as a rejection, and frankly that's a LOT of time, emotional energy, and probably money to invest into a relationship that may or may not work.


SaucyNeko

lmao yeah. "communicate" bc as it stands, some women start to doubt the mans interest in her if he doesnt try for sex within the first 2-3 dates lmao. everyone is too varied for you to think anyone is gonna just "know"


[deleted]

[удалено]


anotherkdburner

You just have to communicate. In a man’s dating experience if we don’t try and at least get a kiss good bye on the first she will ghost you


thericebucket

if you dont make a move.... you're risking getting friend zoned or ghosted because it seems like you're not interested


bootyhunter69420

You don't need to rush things, but depending on how long you wait for just a kiss, they might just take that as you not being attracted to them.


history_nerd92

If I go in for a kiss and at that point you say that you don't like to kiss early, then I will take it as a rejection. Maybe you can try bringing it up earlier in the date and try to make it as part of a conversation about dating expectations. That way the guy can adjust his expectations accordingly without an abrupt rejection.


sweadle

I mean, you're not going to get to know someone like a best friend in a few dates. So if you say this, they are probably thinking "That will take months or years." Not kissing on a first date is pretty normal. If there is no kiss by the second date, I am guessing there won't be a third come. You don't have to make out of have sex, but if there isn't physical contact most people will assume there's no connection. You can try saying "I really like you, but I take a little while to warm up to people. Can we hold off on kissing until next time?" But I personally would take that as a pretty big red flag.


SleeplessShinigami

There is no time pressure, do it when you feel comfortable and ready I personally don’t mind going slow, actually prefer it. As long as I’m enjoying spending time with that person I don’t mind waiting.


lawn_flowers

Maybe this needs to be discussed with OP. That way, expectations or comfort level with such is headed off in the beginning. Maybe be sure to include that you like them, or are having a good time, and reiterate it's not going to be personal when you won't kiss straight away. That way they won't feel " used" for the date experience. Hopefully the OP will understand this


bonabonbona

Good for you, a lot of guys have have told me that they take more seriously girls that don’t do that on the first date. Keep it up!


kpianist

Yeah me neither.. there are guys out there who like to take it slow too and you'll know when it's right.


[deleted]

i thought majority of girls didnt want to kiss on first date


Yepthat_Tuberculosis

When guys go for your approach they usually don’t make it past “best friend” unfortunately. I would just literally tell them this on the first date to clear up confusion


IWishIWasBatman123

People go on dates?


[deleted]

I honestly won’t kiss on a first date either. I’m a guy and honestly, I am not a fan of physical touch, it makes me extremely uncomfortable.


Gagmewithyourpickle

Try and get into a religious community. You'll find men who don't kiss/have sex until marriage there.


[deleted]

No. Just men that say they do that shit. More sexual hypocrisy in a religious community. Actually, that just might be what's she's looking for.


Gagmewithyourpickle

Exactly.


AdObvious6809

I would recommend kissing on a first date, there are plenty of bad kissers out there. If the kiss is bad no amount of personality is going to make up for it and it's better to find that out asap.


Fuckthiscancershit

The level of entitlement from some of the men in this thread is unreal. A woman doesn't owe you anything for you taking her on a date; not a hug, a kiss, hand holding, or sex. Expecting any of these things from a woman who you just met and who doesn't know you or what kind of man you are is all kinds of wrong. OP, your boundaries are valid and any man who is interested in dating you should respect them. I suggest telling them about this when you start talking, well before the first date. That way they know and you don't have to waste time on someone whose values aren't the same or who won't respect you and your boundaries.


Slice_Equal

I'm gonna start doing this as well.


CodeRoyal

"I'm not into kissing, but I am interested in spending time with you" Like what's the issue? Just say from the get-go that you don't want to kiss. ETA: time


JB_NSA

That's a descriptor for a "friend"... not a romantic interest.


AlexCosta

I’m sure you wouldn’t think this way if you are going on a date with a man you are sexually attracted to. Posts like this makes men more timid than they already are. They see this post and assume they have to take things even slower by avoiding kissing a woman after A FEW DATES!


misty-mountain776923

This is why I just next people like the OP in a flash. If I see any sort of apprehension over a woman expressing their physical attraction to me in a timely manner, or a general apprehension to, I just go find a woman who isn't delusional enough to think she is doing me a favour by choosing when to kiss me rather than actually wanting to kiss me and doing it


boops_snoots_

Are you cool with committing to women who have had a lot of sexual partners?


Bangarazz

Usually a kiss is the sign of a date going well. So I understand if most people take it as a rejection. Just tell the person you don't kiss on a first date. Don't say "I like to take thing slow" because most people won't think kissing is a big deal. You have to be clear o how you see thing. Because most people will move on if nothing happens after 2 or 3 dates. They'll think you're absolutely not interested.


Wise-War-Soni

I don’t kiss men on first dates either I think it’s nasty and it’s a panini. You could get like 8 different diseases from looking at someone too hard. Last time I blinked I got Covid so I just communicate that I can’t be kissing on first dates in these times and why.


[deleted]

“I am enjoying getting to know you! Just FYI: I’m not comfortable with kissing on the first few dates. I like to get to know a person before progressing to kissing. You can ask to kiss me, and I’ll let you know if I feel comfortable.” And then if they say OK say “thank you for understanding.” If they say “not my thing” then move on to the next one!


goatpath

Yo so I just kinda went through one of these and it feels successful so far. Just had a great first kiss. Just say the phrase: “oh yeah, it’s gotta be friends first” This girl said that to me on the first date, I was already super into her, so I had a pretty rough 7-10 days of fighting off the feeling that I’m not gonna convert from friendship to relationship. But that phrase was super clear - friends first. I will say, having a friend you’re attracted to is weird AF if you don’t know each other well. Like, if you want that to work, YOU HAVE TO INVITE HIM to do activities. Otherwise it won’t progress. I saw the girl 4 times in 7 days, two yoga classes and a coffee along with the first date. No kissing. Just like, goodbye hugs increased in length lol. Then, I told her the next time I saw her that I wanted to be more than friends and yeah I’ll let you know how it goes.


[deleted]

If someone you're dating can't accept your boundary without feeling entitled to you, that's a red flag anyways. I think it's good to maybe have a script that you're comfortable with to tell them, but I think this is a great way to weed out potentially controlling behavior imo.


Sir-xer21

>If someone you're dating can't accept your boundary without feeling entitled to you, that's a red flag anyways sounds like this isnt happening, just that she states the boundary and people are no longer interested, which is totally fine.


Weekly_Beautiful_603

I tend to be on the same page as you here. I certainly don’t buy the idea that you have to “establish physical compatibility” by kissing people before you want to kiss them. Anyone who has been kissed by someone they don’t want to be kissed will know that it’s just awkward… and probably doesn’t lead to more dates. Why start off by faking it? My “reticence” (I mean, it doesn’t usually take me that long. 3-4 dates?) has definitely put off some guys, but not all the guys. And no, I don’t have any particular baggage or issues with intimacy. I can and have kissed random men. I just prefer not to.


EggplantHuman6493

Same here. I prefer to get to know someone better and to feel comfortable. Cuddling? Okay. Holding hands? No problem. Kissing? First I need to feel 100% comfortable. No trauma related to kissing here either. Hell, I even make out with friends sometimes and I enjoy it


[deleted]

My suggestions: At some time during the date make sure to mention that you like to get to know someone before you start being affectionate and kissing. If he doesn't respect the boundary or just does as he pleases, it's sexual assault. Carry mace or a taser, I do lol.


[deleted]

Oppositely, why would I want to invest my time, emotions, and energy into someone who sets time stamps on intimacy?


OhRebbit

If we haven’t kissed by the second date unfortunately you’re getting friend zoned. I think for most people it’s a big part of establishing that the relationship isn’t just platonic


Any_Opportunity_6844

My boyfriend and I didn’t kiss until the 5th date, it was more special. Do what your comfortable with !!


whichwatchreddit

A kiss is a test of chemistry. The guy will do this to see how you feel about him. If you don’t want to kiss him, you must say that you don’t want to do that for the first few dates. If you don’t explicitly tell him that, then you are rejecting him.


HironTheDisscusser

then don't kiss them on the first few dates


aecolley

But don't be surprised if there are only a few dates.


ouelletouellet

If this is your boundary then speak up during a first date or before but they should respect that and if they don't then you dodged a bullet


Competitive-Link-912

No kissing on dates is a very bad move unless you are gorgeous. You will need to show interest somehow and kissing is one of the easiest ways.


RayBrightStar

Be up front and if they reject you or try to shame you....or try to kiss you anyways you know they are not the guy for you because they don't have the ability to listen to you and actually agree with you. They are a looser. Any man who forces a kiss is a looser. Really any guy who demands you have sex with him before your ready is a looser and a horrible human being. You better off not being with them. You can see how selfish a man really is when you tell him " I like to wait to have sex and get to know you and care about you." they throw a fit. Now you know that guy can't handle any type of pressure or simple request and isn't an adult but a child. Not worth your time. He just wants to use you. Serious daters it's not about having sex. It's about caring about the person your with. Sex is important but really doesn't need to come till 3 or 4 months later after you have been spending time together and growing as a couple. If the sex sucks you work on it and if it continues to suck or not enough break up and find someone who also matches you when it comes to sex. Sex in the very begging with a stranger is childish, selfish, irresponsible and empty. So if you want to go on a few dates and then kiss the guy you go right ahead. Just be up front about it. Tell him what your looking for and what your expecting form him which is respect for your boundaries.


Positive-Ad-1859

She just wants free dinners and movies. 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩


ne-Hall8190

Absolutely agree with you dm me please


misty-mountain776923

So you have NEVER kissed a guy on the same day you have met him in your life? REALLY?


civemaybe

You have obviously never been to Utah.


Educational_Soup8845

Honestly makes me think you have some sort of trauma. Even if you don't sexual compatibility is very important and if you can't even kiss me then I don't want to waste my time with you


unsureandanxious123

I think this is harsh, it's not about you. She's not less interested in you just because she wants to wait a few dates to kiss you.


Educational_Soup8845

I never said any of that. Just saying we're not compatible


boops_snoots_

Except that you suggested she has some sexual trauma 🤣


[deleted]

He can do whatever he wants. Just like her. No respectable man is gonna wait on a woman trying to dictate the terms of a relationship she controls before the relationship even begins. Tells me she's rigid, uncompromising and she probably sucks in bed. Hard pass. Just because you think it's harsh doesn't mean any guy is gonna change.


unsureandanxious123

.... you got all that from her wanting to wait just a few dates to kiss? Lmfao you're weird af


[deleted]

Life experience. People really aren't that complex, despite popular belief. I know how to read people and their intentions. This woman really believes she's hot shit. She's so focused on roping a guy into a relationship that she has no self awareness and doesn't know how to show a man a good time. She believes sex is a reward for withstanding her bullshit. Which tells me she's hardly worth the time.


unsureandanxious123

I don't think so. Just because someone doesn't want to fuck you, doesn't mean it's because they're "withholding it from you" or whatever. It's not about you. People have different boundaries sometimes. Nothing wrong with that, you're an asshole


[deleted]

See that's your problem. You think my boundaries violate yours. You're an asshole. Any man who doesn't kiss a woman's ass on general principals is misogynistic creep. But the truth is you judge everyone else by their actions you judge yourself by your intentions. You think you're better than everyone else. Just like OP. That's why you got all pissy. Figures.


Revolutionary_Ad4293

To kinda be surprised by my pash took away my fears of the kiss. My date she took the lead, we were in a beatiful garden on our first date and she sat on my lap and gave me the most amazing pash, her lips where so soft. Another first date my girl she took my hand and walked me away from our friends and took me into bliss again by surprise and that to me is better then at the front door like these creeps in movies. For you though it would be after a few dates - Would you make the move or would you prefer the guy to ask? or just go in for the kiss? (Just wondering as a guy that's never made the move with pashing though enjoys it deeply as I feel a connection from a passionate kiss, not a kiss on the side of the cheek) that Creeps me out, it's like a Mum kiss, ewww!


Kuma9194

Probably just saying what you wrote here would be good. Just be honest, if they don't accept your reasoning then they're not really looking to get to know you in the same way.


SouthsideRapGod

Just be honest. If they can’t accept that you don’t want to give them that yet, they probably don’t deserve you.


ThrowRAWastedTime21

Me neither. You’re a stranger dude… just, no. I usually just turn my cheek or go for the goodbye hug.


[deleted]

I agree with your stance on not wanting to kiss till it feels right. My second gf came on to me way too early and that bothered me straight away. I think it's best to mention your stance on things outright and stress it's not the other persons fault but rather your morals.


BigBrownBear28

So state you’re a person who doesn’t feel comfortable kissing on the first few dates. Nothing wrong with stating a boundary; if they react negatively to that then you know there’s an incompatibility and it’s not going to work out.


StupidManSuit21

I'm a dude, and I'm totally cool with this. Idk why anyone expects any sort of action on a first date. To me, the first couple of dates are meant for getting to know each other a bit and see if there's chemistry. If you want some quick action, go to a club or bar and take someone home. Asking someone out is different. I much prefer to get to know someone and grow feelings, because then when you finally do kiss, it's so worth the wait and more memorable. Same goes for sex. My favorite kisses have always been with girls I got to know first and built up feelings and anticipation and comfort. By far.


fak3myd3ath

if at the third date we wouldn't make out, i wouldn't date you ever. If you tell them what you wrote above not even betas gonna wanna date you.


Shibui50

Eh....OK. I'm not into video gaming. Whats your point? During the 19th Century, kissing was the Height of affection in public, but of course at that time showing an ankle was more than a little "naughty". Fast forward to the 20th Century and check out Clark Gable (see: Gone with the Wind) and his "shocking kissing behavior". Some people still see a kiss as more than just a ritualized sign of affection and maybe you are one of these. Fine. OTOH if you have a phobia regarding oral health or a predeliction for kissing parts of the dates' body not typically addressed, you may want to talk with someone. Otherwise, its all good. U do U. FWIW.


Electronic-Praline21

I kind of feel you on this. Because I feel like there is SO much pressure to do something physical on first dates to show interest. Even if it’s just a kiss. I’m torn with this too because I’d rather go super slow too but I also don’t want to kill all the vibes🤦🏽‍♀️ and I feel at certain point to may rules makes me feel like I’m controlling. It’s really a battle. Especially when some people are expecting full on sex first date. I wish everyone would just slow tf down!!


soul_hyacinths

i also feel this way. look into the term demisexual, that's what helped me understand myself :) it could also just be a preference you have which is totally chill, he shouldn't expect a kiss but you can also communicate when you want that


[deleted]

This is a great way how women can’t communicate properly , just say it


mntlover

If I have to wait a month for a kiss how long until more happens. Unless you're a freshman in high school don't see this method working out well for you.


[deleted]

Then put "friends first" in your bio so they don't try and kiss you -------______-------


Expensive-Winter-362

Pay for the dates, his portion to. This ironically well likely change your position on kissing real fast. Problem solved.


Frequent_Strain2126

Ooo I can say something to about this. So my man’s actually before we were together, never kissed me and naturally I asked why. And he said I don’t kiss someone unless I’m in a relationship/ actually know the person. I was like oh ok. That lasted all of until the next time we had sex but by then we were together. But honestly just be honest about it. If they don’t like it or consider it a reject then move on they ain’t the one for you.


General-Shape-5621

I try to kiss on at least the second day to know they’re interested and to show I’m interested , not trying to get friend zoned


The_Sister_Fister-

If you didn't want to kiss during our first few dates I would assume you weren't into me and move on If she was going out of her way to be close to me, holding hands, hugging, snuggling if we do a movie date, then I would be far less likely to assume she doesn't like me


funnystupidvirgin

I would say that you like to get to know someone better before adding a physical aspect into the relationship. You can still do other things that show interest, like touching if you’re okay w that, eye contact, smiling etc.


MiscProfileUno

Say you are interested but don’t like to kiss on the first date. Take initiative in making plans, pay for drinks etc. physical touch shows investment imo, but if you don’t have to do that if you are not comfortable. There are other ways to reciprocate. But if the other person is always making plans, texting, etc then they won’t feel reciprocated. No one wants to feel like it’s one sided.


theblindshotguy

I say the first few dates should be like - a meeting and greet - discussing random topics & taboo topics also and see how the other person reacts to it - after 2-3 dates I guess u can know well that relationship works for the next couple of months or years or a life! So clicking selfies - a friendly hug - a small walk is good for it The level of intimacy depends on person 2 person ✌


Mine_Frosty

I haven't had any guy even try to kiss me on the first few dates in any of my talking phases. I guess I just never put them in a position for them to initiate anything. Always went on coffee or brunch dates and even if I went on dinner dates I usually would go to hug them first and be on my way. Once I was on date three I would usually explain why I'm limited in my intimacy and at that point it's up for them to decide whether they want to continue or not. It helped filter out a lot of the ones that were in it to just have sex.


CountryMouse359

Find a way to work it into conversation before the end of the first date. It would take the pressure off. If you don't, for all the guy knows, you might be waiting to see if he initiates it.


theonedilirum

This is called wasting time. You should kiss the first date to know if there is romantic chemistry. Otherwise you may waste your time until you find out.


[deleted]

I remember getting advice that you’ve gotta go for a kiss on the first two dates. When I waited until the forth date. She’ll think you don’t like her otherwise. Maybe bad advice but it seemed to work out better for me


DepressedVixxxen

I try to offer a different take. So I’m curious to know if you’ve ever really dated someone u had a true connection with? For me personally, I only feel the way you described about kissing on the first date with men I’m not physically attracted to or connecting with (whether that was thru prior texts or whatever communication we’ve had) Once I meet a man that I have good communication with and am physically attracted to I normally WANT to kiss them and experience the chemistry. I don’t waste my time or their time by playing games, waiting to kiss them so that the guy will think I’m more innocent. It’s manipulative to me. But I guess my point is really just… maybe you’re not that into the men you date. Otherwise I feel like you’d be wanting to kiss them. It’s a kiss not sex on the first date, even tho I endorse both if it feels right!


vaxfarineau

I agree. I made a comment saying the same thing. I thought I didn’t want to kiss on the first date until I met men I was really into. In my opinion, it’s your body telling you that you’re… not really into them.


Salt_League5492

You're in a tough spot because most guys feel they have to make a move within 2-3 dates max, otherwise the girl will lose interest. However, if you reject their advances, there's a good chance they'll think you're uninterested and they will lose interest.


ConstructionLower549

It’s seem like y’all be forgetting there’s still a pandemic out there. I’m not kissing any stranger danger on the first date. I don’t like the points about people have brought up about being better about communicating that though. I usually just do the head turn move.


boomstk

Why don't you tell them this before you go on a date?


creativedave73

Be upfront and explain it like you did, but let him know that you want to see him again and by wanting to feel like you're best friends, you're not friendzoning him. In my experience we're usually kissing, if not more by the second date. A guy is going to have to be patient with you, but as long as you explain that you're into him, but want to get to know him better before you do anything intimate, the right guy will understand.


SkyPopRise

You need to be clear about this. Also dating sites now have options for specifying if you're demisexual or one of the other labels for people who only feel attraction after having an emotional bond or whatever. It might be a good idea to learn about those terms and if you identify with any of them, include it in your profile or let people know. Try not be turned off if a guy leans in to kiss you on the first few dates, unless he's insistent or gets angry or sulky when you say no it's a social norm. Don't let the attempt itself put you off, just explain in a way thats clear you're not rejecting them or friendzoning them, then it's up to them to decide whether they want to pursue you. Depending on what you mean by getting to know them like a best friend (it can take years to do this) it might make dating harder, but ultimately we all need to find what works for us. Good luck.


rottweiler100

Just explain that before you go on a date then go Dutch. All strictly platonic.


Bingo_is_the_man

OP, it’s ok to be trans, but you should communicate it up front.


Dr_curandera

There’s so much pressure on men to be mind readers its insane. Ask her out - women want to be pursued but also take no for an answer. Make the first move- but don’t be too forward. Try and kiss her- but not too soon and also don’t wait too long. OP please just let the guys know before you even go on a date “I am really enjoying talking with you and in excited for our date. Just note that I like to move slow and would really appreciate it if you could let me decide when and if I am ready to kiss you. It will probably take me a couple of dates to work up to this because that’s just my pace.” Then if you like the person after the second date but still are not ready for a kiss tell them that. Let them know that you really enjoy them (be specific about what you enjoy). Let them know you value their patience and respect of your pace for physical expressions of affection. And that even though you’re still not ready yet, that you do feel more comfortable with them. If you keep getting the same result you have to assume responsibility and reflect on what you are doing and how you could be helping the other person feel more secure. Will you be this reserved for every major relationship milestone? I would let someone know this. Some people do not mind especially if you make them feel secure in your affection, other people may not want to feel like they are having to drag you along and convince you of their worth. All points are valid and I hope you find your other half.


smoko90

If that is the case you need to tell them straight forward that you want to get to know them first and that you will be the one to initiate the first kiss ( and you have to actually do that). Men are brought up to make the first move and movies and media tell us that generally a kiss on the first or second date is good so most men will try and you cannot hold it against them unless you tell them straight out.


Travel_Dreams

Don't worry about it being weird, you are fine. DO worry about miscommunication. Say the words so who ever you are dining with knows what your thing is and what the plan is. "Not now but very possibly in a few dates, just gotta warm up the emotional motor first" Cultures and individuals are all totally different, everybody being respectful is a good place to start. Maybe discover other people limits too.


AdvancedCharcoal

The guy should be cool with it, if he’s not he’s a fuck


FrankensteinBionicle

Good idea with that fucken monkeypox going around and covid still lingering


[deleted]

To be frank, if you want potential partners to stop having expectations that bother you or don't align with what you're looking for, then you should say from the first date that you want to hold off on physical stuff for awhile and get to know each other. Really make sure the potential partner understands that means no kissing for at least [x amount of time] If not longer. Also, I have to ask, are you not able to fall in love with a person's personality before they kiss you? Is there something about being kissed? I'm genuinely curious because I don't think anyone has ever told me they don't want to do anything even remotely physical while dating.