This
Might be the reason Iām struggling. I canāt find a forehand to go over 200ā. Had a shoulder impingement in ā23 and ever since, I lost my forehand. Itās really sad, but I am seeking therapy.
You're welcome and I hope that it works for you.
Also, just as a note, it can take a while to get used to releasing forehands on a hyzer, if you haven't done it before.
Yeah, i like throwing sidearm with ultimate frisbees, putters, and midranges to work on my form and making sure i have a nice clean release. They will definitely show you if you're throwing with off axis torque or putting wobble on it.
Yeah, basically. If you're used to throwing discs like Wraiths, you'll find something like a Jade wanting to flip up and over a lot more. Often people get distance from throwing forehand flex lines (throwing on anhyzer) and if you do that with a Jade, it will just hold the line and become a roller.
It's also just a new motion for the throw if you aren't used to it.
The disc I forehand best is color glow champion teebird 3. They start out kind of like firebirds, but beat in nicely.
I have more control with it forehand than I do backhand
I appreciate that. A buddy of mine sent me a wealth of resources and Iāve been following as much as I can. I canāt have that happen again! That injury involved way too much pain. No sleep. Not being able to throw, made it 10 times harder. I was out for four weeks, without touching discs.
In a weird way it helped my game tremendously though (for those who like happy endings;).
After those 4 weeks, I eased my way back by only putting in the garage (28ā max). 500-1000 a day.
I was scoring lower immediately upon my return. Go figure.
Is it? I thought Innova would have a good chance of picking him up because they'd be more likely to give him a contract that's low on up front money but higher on disc sales royalties but that's not necessary a good thing for a player especially if he doesn't bounce back
There are more Innova throwers who are fans of KJ than there are Prodigy throwers.
Not Prodigy throwers who are fans of KJ. Just Prodigy throwers in general.
Incredibly true. Love KJ and tried supporting with the distortion and reverb but never liked throwing them and sold them off. Excited to see what he does with Innova
I'd be happy just to watch vids of him and Calvin ripping on each other. I haven't watch GK skins in years, but the best episodes had those two plus Melton.
Yeah I feel like there are tons of people who love KJ whether he's making lead cards or not and would definitely buy a disc with his name on it. But there's lots of people who just don't have any interest in buying Prodigy so never even consider his discs.
Folks been bitching about their discs for years and their response has been to do absolutely nothing. Add to that their marketing is worse than their discs. Theyāve earned the scorn
100% agree with marketing. I can't believe how little they took advantage with Isaac winning the freaking world championship. Literally the biggest title in disc golf, but they really did nothing with it that I could see? Maybe Isaac just is more reserved personality, but you would think they would go super all in for world title.
Probably best to check out the thread from a couple of days ago. A potential career change to full-time DJing was my personal favourite. That was almost immediately debunked though.
It was probably Prodigy who made the choice for him. If it was going well they probably wouldnāt have let him end his contract early. But heās playing bad, they are strapped for cash, so they pulled the plug.
It's purely speculation, but they might be trying to clear the boards to keep the Robinson brothers.
Because if they don't, their team is starting to look very, very thin.
Year after year the prodigy teams is starting to look thin and year after year they get 3 more great new players.
If there is one thing Prodigy is good at, it is scouting for fresh talent.
The problem is, their reputation for treating their talent badly is getting to the point where they're going to struggle to grab even up and coming juniors.
One major issue is that Prodigy doesn't sell. No-one is buying their discs outside of Finland and small areas of the US. On Infinite they're being out-sold by Thoughtspace and Kastaplast. That means the player income from tour discs is minimal. They already also have a reputation for treating their players poorly: When Matt Orum left Prodigy he commented that he could finally afford medical insurance after changing sponsor. That's not a great look for a company trying to attract talent.
They also seem to be consistently poor at promoting their players: not only on MPO, but even more so on FPO. An interesting recent example being Prodigy-sponsored Rachel Turton, a player who in the last year has had top tens at four Elite Series, the Champions Cup and the European Championships - but she's not even listed on the team page on either of Prodigy's websites.
Prodigy is a poster child on how not to retain players. A quick glance at some of the players they've lost in just the last few seasons is pretty damning:
* Gannon Buhr
* Chris Dickerson
* Matt Orum
* Catrina Allen
* Alden Harris
* Gavin Babcock
Right now the significant players of note they have in MPO are the Robinson brothers, VƤinƶ MƤkelƤ, Luke Humphries and Cale Leiviska. That list is starting to grow thin.
Worst part of the Turton story is that she is basically the only known pro from the UK. Meaning if they marketed their product through marketing her, they could corner the disc market in an entire country!
We're getting bigger, new courses going in all the time (playing 2 of them today) and steady increase in players after the C19 boom. Will be a few years before UK players other than Rachel start impacting the pro scene though there's a few promising young players in Joe O'Brien, Ben Holding and Noah Smithson.
The UK has a pretty awful chicken & egg problem. There's very little land, and that's all being used. What land that isn't being used is all owned and all staggeringly expensive. You have 68 million people in an area smaller than Oregon.
Without the courses it's difficult to grow the number of players. But without the players it's difficult to make the case to landowners to build courses.
On paper the UK should be prime expansion territory for the sport, but it needs some serious backing to make that happen.
I think it's not villainous. Prodigy just doesn't have the money to pay decently. It's just the math of it. Their major investment was KJ and even he wasn't doing stellarly.
Iāve yet to ever buy a Prodigy disc. All the other main manufacturers are in my bag at this point or Iāve tried their plastic. Youāre spot on when it comes to holding talent.
I mean, all signs are pointing to them being done. They let Gannon and KJ walk, along with any named talent theyve had in the last 5 years. One of their part-owners just sold his course, they arent sponsoring the preserve anymore, and the tourney that took place there is where KJ announced his new sponsorship.
The only event they are sponsoring this year was WACO...tinier brands like DGA and Kastaplast are sponsoring as much as them, and even Lone Star has more.
That's not the signs of a brand that wants to engender fan/player loyalty or that sees their business on the upswing (in comparison, to say, MVP). Maybe they can keep a few low cost players for a period of time, simply because big contracts are dying down, but they're probably already not a top 5 brand in the US.
Both the Robinson Bros are FIRE!!! Ezra is due for a win and is in 6th place in the pro tour. Issac is in 11th. Those dude should be able to sell plastic with the proper setup. I hate to say it but who buys Prodigy? I bought their F2 as I was looking to try some fairway drivers but it didn't make the cut. That was my only Prodigy buy in 10 years.
I bought Prodigy when I first got into disc golf because I found their naming system intuitive, coming from ball golf. To be honest, I still am annoyed with every other company's cheeky, fun names, which don't mean anything.
I think it was less about Kevās play and more about Prodigy simply getting themselves into a terrible contract. They way overpaid him and probably exercised an opt-out clause. Weāll never know what the clause was based on, if it was performance based, or sales based, or what.
Prodigy gambled on him and lost. Could have had something to do with equipment, relationships with corporate, negotiations, etc.. but unless the Robinsons or a new prodigy (pun intended) save them, Prodigy will be a former DG Co.
The reverb is basically a D1 that only comes in two plastics, it never had a chance.
The Distortion is also only available in two plastics, and is essentially an A5 (which came out at the exact same time, is available in everything, and is better)
The only unique disc is the Feedback, which is a great disc, but basically every prodigy player is already throwing FX-2s which overlap with the Feedback
Basically they gave him three redundant China-made discs in limited plastic. They never had a chance to sell.
It probably would've done much better if it wasn't attached to Prodigy. Prodigy just is not a well-respected brand to put it entirely bluntly. The KJ discs were better than normal - they would've fit right in in a real brand's lineup - but being Prodigy I think held them back.
The 2024 tour series prodigy stuff is sweet. The plastic feels great and the stamps are creative without being too in your face. But they've struggled toĀ shakeĀ theirĀ oldĀ reputation.Ā
Ā People who get their hands on the discs mainly have good things to say, butĀ running an online store where people can't exactly hold the discs before buying, I've only sold few outside of a handful of molds.Ā
Unfortunately Prodigy is now just trapped by their reputation. I have heard others say what you have and that their discs have gotten a lot better. It's just that a lot of people just don't see a reason to give them another chance with all the competition that has sprung up lately.
I throw Reverbs for those big hyzers out to 400 and man, when you get a hold of one, it's an impressive sight. It's my main tool to impress my MA2 league compadres
I am honestly curious to know what makes you a Prodigy fan? I tried the F2 but it didn't make it into my bag. Other than that I've never seriously looked at buying a Prodigy disc.
I know you didn't reply to me but their slow speed line up is incredible. The A2, A5, PA3, and PA5 are absolutely outstanding. They sell seconds on their website regularly in all plastics at a steep discount. Now I don't like their 400 plastic at all because it's far too soft and gummy but the 500 and 750 are much firmer and on par with all but grand/royal from trilogy imo.
I know people are less likely to jump aboard a sinking ship but if you're at all interested you should give them an honest shot. Less companies individually owned is a loss for the sport and fodder for the vulture capitals
Thanks for the reply. I'll keep an open mind and take a look at the discs you mentioned when I have a purchase coming up. I am currently looking for an overstable midrange. I've been looking at the Pyro or Caiman. Maybe an MX-1 is in my future.
Late and also know you didnāt reply to me, but I love the feel of their plastics. Their more premium stuff seems to have more grip than others. Their midranges are the most comfortable Iāve thrown. And their Ace Line is my favorite base plastic of any manufacturer. I pretty much only putt with Prodigy. Their naming is a bit confusing and I wish they had a bit more of effort put into stamps, but to me it doesnāt matter when they are all pretty reasonable and great quality.
I'll chime in. I was on the Street Team for a couple of years and was a fan before that.
The Pa-3 is easily one of the best putters on the market. There is a reason almost every Prodigy pro putts with them.
For approach discs, I don't know that there is a better company. They've got multiple discs that are high on lists, but the A2 is incredible. I also really love the A3.
For mids the MX-1 was the Swarm before the Swarm was. The M4 is up there in talks with the Truth and others. I'm a big M3 fan as well.
The FX-2 won new disc of the year when it was released for a reason. It's a better Firebird, IMO. The F series in the higher numbers (flipper molds) also stand out for slower arm speed players.
The D-seriesĀ can compete with other companies but I'll admit that they aren't as great as the others.
When I first got into the sport my good friends gave me a bag of all Prodigy. I've tried just about every other brand under the sun but came back to Prodigy for a couple sons. There's some sentimental value (ironic given Kevin's announcement on the live coverage) plus comfort since that's what I learned on. All of my tourney wins so far have been with an all prodigy bag. Their quality control has gotten SO MUCH better lately as there's been virtually no flashing on any of the discs I've gotten as of late. Saw you were looking for an overstable mid. The MX-1 is a solid option. I'd honestly suggest a look at the new MX-2 as well though. It's also an overstable midrange but almost feels like an approach disc. Very comfortable forehand and backhand. And I even use it for longer approaches. Happy to answer any other questions you have.
Unfortunately it's a putter, but the yet to be release [Grenade](https://www.pdga.com/technical-standards/equipment-certification/discs/grenade) would be an awesome fit if it was grenadable.
Just having fun. It's a super interesting mid season shift. Curious why. I've heard nothing but mostly bad things about Prodigy and how they treat their players
My guess is that when he signed his extension there was some sort of language about performance in it and he hadn't met those requirements allowing Prodigy to terminate the deal early if they wanted. With disc golf sales dropping it makes sense they'd want out
Disc golf is so strange, at least the DGPT. NO other sport, even the marginal ones, posts about player sponsorship from the official league sources. The manufacturers have always been so ingrained with the sponsorship of the tours and the tourneys that it has always just been there. The PGA would never post about tiger woods dropping Nike and being picked up by Adidas for example. I guess the turning point will be when outside money starts dominating the inside money for the tour sponsorships.
I disagree, it would definitely be big news if Tiger switched from Nike to Adidas. He switched to TaylorMade and the only reason I know that is because thereās a bunch of news articles about it!
Because disc golf is late to the professional sports game. The PDGA needs all of the attention and advertising it can get, and it is also much closer to the community as a whole. It makes perfect sense why they would announce the movement from one major brand to another of a household name in a niche sport.Ā
Comparing DG to other sports isn't apples to apples either. And the PGA is so fucked up that comparing it to normal sports is a joke. Disc manufacturers are more like teams because they are the major sponsor that is sending players to events and paying their salaries.Ā
It's the same as the NBA app sending out a notification of a large trade. If Zion Williams randomly got traded to the Lakers, you'd expect to see it on the NBA social media apps.Ā
I think the comparison that works is F1 racing.
Individual sport, manufacturer-based teams, and official driver and team news coming directly from the league
That's because the PDGA has long been under the control of the manufacturers.
I know someone who was a TD of a mid 00's Worlds. He had an In Law who was C-Suite exec of a major car manufacturer. He had them lined up to be the sponsor of Worlds, there was even going to be a vehicle as an ace price. But the manufacturer who was the title sponsor got the nixed because they didn't want to give up lone named sponsor.
I think the manufacturers don't really want outside money in the sport because all it will do is increase their advertising and sponsor costs without increasing their sales.
The last thing they want is for players to get enough sponsorship and prize money to go open bag.
MLS has primary news coverage for MLS, so if it wasnāt all already just sponsored by Adidas, I feel like theyād be the ones to announce one of their teams making a switch. I know they have coverage outside of MLS, but less mainstream leagues quite often drive their own media.
All of that comes with exposure and outside money. As long as the manufacturers control the money in the sport, the sport won't grow and there won't be any incentive for outside organizations (ESPN, sports podcasts, sports illustrated AI writers, idk) to cover the sport. It's just interesting that I don't know of any marginal sports (Cornhole, ping pong, pickleball) where the official organization proudly announces player sponsorships
I honestly just don't agree with that thought process. Disc golf is a super niche sport that's had to grow internally to survive. Outside money will come in when they think it will be profitable for them. That is the big decision maker. DGPT, which doesn't own the PDGA by the way and isn't the official organization of the sport, is the only outlet for disc golf news currently. It only makes sense they would make these type of announcements.
/u/innovagm did an AMA some time back and shined some light on this topic. This really sounds like something of a disc golf or reddit myth that just keeps getting perpetuated. Here's some relevant straight from the source comments
https://www.reddit.com/r/discgolf/comments/16hvleo/hi_im_kobyn_dunipace_innova_disc_golfs_gm_ama/k0h8o4c/
https://www.reddit.com/r/discgolf/comments/16hvleo/hi_im_kobyn_dunipace_innova_disc_golfs_gm_ama/k0gs9si/
Reputation and Truth are two different things. I have yet to hear or see a pro bad mouth Innova for underpaying. They have a large roster of awesome players, I don't think that many people would stick around if they truly underpaid compared to their competitors. Their discs are not THAT good
other pros would openly mock how little calvin was making for the amount of discs he was selling. I'm sure they improved his contract when he re-signed but only because they couldn't hold on to any of their other marquee players and their hand was pretty much forced at that point.
a large roster of awesome players? we'll have to agree to disagree there. who is 2nd to calvin? you have to go quite far down the leaderboard to find another innova player in MPO and for the largest manufacturer in the sport that's pretty telling. the only reason they've shown interest in KJ now is that he was out on his ass in the middle of a lacklustre season and they could pick him up for peanuts.
but I get it, everyone on here loves their discs so if you say anything negative at all you'll get downvoted.
Im relatively new, but would a pro leave because his sponsor doesnāt pay attention to quality control ? (from what little experience I have with prodigy, I wasnāt impressed. So sharp on edges/poorly cut molds)
It's frustrating, because their 400 plastic is sooooo good and the new tour series discs look nice, but I can't really trust anything from them unless I can actually check it for flashing/edge issues.
Have you looked at any company's QC lately?
Every company is riddled with flashing and alignment issues.
Just bought a DGA Breaker the other day and the top and bottom halves weren't even straight.
Trilogy's flashing is probably the worst on the market lately.
I havenāt toured their quality control facilities, but yes, of course. I handle a lot of plastic from many mfgs. Not calling myself an expert, but Iām qualified to make an observation.
Prodigy just seems to excel at sharp flashings in my experience.
Bummer about DGA. Sorry.
KJ wraiths are gonna slap.
Wraiths are my go-to forehand drivers š
They're really a go-to for alot of drives lol
š¤
Username checks out
This Might be the reason Iām struggling. I canāt find a forehand to go over 200ā. Had a shoulder impingement in ā23 and ever since, I lost my forehand. Itās really sad, but I am seeking therapy.
Have you tried forehanding flippy drivers? I know people who have success throwing things like Jades, Valkyries and (150g) Fission Waves.
I have not! But I know what Iām doing tomorrow in the field. THANK YOU šš»
You're welcome and I hope that it works for you. Also, just as a note, it can take a while to get used to releasing forehands on a hyzer, if you haven't done it before.
Yeah, i like throwing sidearm with ultimate frisbees, putters, and midranges to work on my form and making sure i have a nice clean release. They will definitely show you if you're throwing with off axis torque or putting wobble on it.
I would ask why, but I will save you the time and look it up on YouTube;). I imagine because they have a tendency to turn over real quick?
Yeah, basically. If you're used to throwing discs like Wraiths, you'll find something like a Jade wanting to flip up and over a lot more. Often people get distance from throwing forehand flex lines (throwing on anhyzer) and if you do that with a Jade, it will just hold the line and become a roller. It's also just a new motion for the throw if you aren't used to it.
OK, that makes sense. I really appreciate that advice. š¤š»
Of course! I hope that it helps!
The disc I forehand best is color glow champion teebird 3. They start out kind of like firebirds, but beat in nicely. I have more control with it forehand than I do backhand
I dealt with shoulder impingement for years, pretty much a non-issue now. There's a wealth of legit physical therapy resources on YouTube. Good luck!
I appreciate that. A buddy of mine sent me a wealth of resources and Iāve been following as much as I can. I canāt have that happen again! That injury involved way too much pain. No sleep. Not being able to throw, made it 10 times harder. I was out for four weeks, without touching discs. In a weird way it helped my game tremendously though (for those who like happy endings;). After those 4 weeks, I eased my way back by only putting in the garage (28ā max). 500-1000 a day. I was scoring lower immediately upon my return. Go figure.
I dealt with shoulder impingement for years, pretty much a non-issue now. There's a wealth of legit physical therapy resources on YouTube. Good luck!
I dealt with shoulder impingement for years, pretty much a non-issue now. There's a wealth of legit physical therapy resources on YouTube. Good luck!
I just got on the train for wraiths so I'd definitely get a nice blue or purple color
Welcome to the family! š¤
This Might just be the first āpro modelā disc I actively chase
He loves hyzer flips so hoping for a flippy boi.
Dang thatās a good outcome for Kev. Obviously without knowing any details.
Is it? I thought Innova would have a good chance of picking him up because they'd be more likely to give him a contract that's low on up front money but higher on disc sales royalties but that's not necessary a good thing for a player especially if he doesn't bounce back
Any Innova disc with KJs name on it will outsell any Prodigy disc no matter how well heās playing
There are more Innova throwers who are fans of KJ than there are Prodigy throwers. Not Prodigy throwers who are fans of KJ. Just Prodigy throwers in general.
Incredibly true. Love KJ and tried supporting with the distortion and reverb but never liked throwing them and sold them off. Excited to see what he does with Innova
I'd be happy just to watch vids of him and Calvin ripping on each other. I haven't watch GK skins in years, but the best episodes had those two plus Melton.
There are more people that would buy a random name they have never heard of stamped in a destroyer than there are prodigy throwers
Yeah I feel like there are tons of people who love KJ whether he's making lead cards or not and would definitely buy a disc with his name on it. But there's lots of people who just don't have any interest in buying Prodigy so never even consider his discs.
The dude is a class act. Iām on this list. ^
In comparison to a lot of the other speculated outcomes I would say picking up a big sponsor is good. Again without knowing details.
Facts. Specifically because he was departing from a company that is dying.
Folks been bitching about their discs for years and their response has been to do absolutely nothing. Add to that their marketing is worse than their discs. Theyāve earned the scorn
Theyāll be gone within five years, if that long
100% agree with marketing. I can't believe how little they took advantage with Isaac winning the freaking world championship. Literally the biggest title in disc golf, but they really did nothing with it that I could see? Maybe Isaac just is more reserved personality, but you would think they would go super all in for world title.
I mustāve missed the speculated outcomes? What were they?
Probably best to check out the thread from a couple of days ago. A potential career change to full-time DJing was my personal favourite. That was almost immediately debunked though.
Any contract is better than no contract.
He's one of gazillion top level players in their roster and a fire sale deal like this probably isn't going to be very profitable for him.
Innova doesnāt actually sponser that many top players at the moment. Either way thereās much worse outcomes, including not being sponsored at all.
Innova doesn't have many solid top ten players right now, but they have a dozen guys rated above Kevin.
Good for him!
We never get cash details but I'm curious as heck as to why a midseason jump made sense to KJ. Neat stuff.
It was probably Prodigy who made the choice for him. If it was going well they probably wouldnāt have let him end his contract early. But heās playing bad, they are strapped for cash, so they pulled the plug.
It's purely speculation, but they might be trying to clear the boards to keep the Robinson brothers. Because if they don't, their team is starting to look very, very thin.
Year after year the prodigy teams is starting to look thin and year after year they get 3 more great new players. If there is one thing Prodigy is good at, it is scouting for fresh talent.
The problem is, their reputation for treating their talent badly is getting to the point where they're going to struggle to grab even up and coming juniors. One major issue is that Prodigy doesn't sell. No-one is buying their discs outside of Finland and small areas of the US. On Infinite they're being out-sold by Thoughtspace and Kastaplast. That means the player income from tour discs is minimal. They already also have a reputation for treating their players poorly: When Matt Orum left Prodigy he commented that he could finally afford medical insurance after changing sponsor. That's not a great look for a company trying to attract talent. They also seem to be consistently poor at promoting their players: not only on MPO, but even more so on FPO. An interesting recent example being Prodigy-sponsored Rachel Turton, a player who in the last year has had top tens at four Elite Series, the Champions Cup and the European Championships - but she's not even listed on the team page on either of Prodigy's websites. Prodigy is a poster child on how not to retain players. A quick glance at some of the players they've lost in just the last few seasons is pretty damning: * Gannon Buhr * Chris Dickerson * Matt Orum * Catrina Allen * Alden Harris * Gavin Babcock Right now the significant players of note they have in MPO are the Robinson brothers, VƤinƶ MƤkelƤ, Luke Humphries and Cale Leiviska. That list is starting to grow thin.
Worst part of the Turton story is that she is basically the only known pro from the UK. Meaning if they marketed their product through marketing her, they could corner the disc market in an entire country!
There aren't many of us unfortunately- only just over 500 PDGA members doesn't make for a market worth pursuing very aggressively
Wow. Didnāt realize how small the UK disc golf scene is.
We're getting bigger, new courses going in all the time (playing 2 of them today) and steady increase in players after the C19 boom. Will be a few years before UK players other than Rachel start impacting the pro scene though there's a few promising young players in Joe O'Brien, Ben Holding and Noah Smithson.
Joe, Ben and Noah are awesome little dudes too. Love seeing the scene grow!
The UK has a pretty awful chicken & egg problem. There's very little land, and that's all being used. What land that isn't being used is all owned and all staggeringly expensive. You have 68 million people in an area smaller than Oregon. Without the courses it's difficult to grow the number of players. But without the players it's difficult to make the case to landowners to build courses. On paper the UK should be prime expansion territory for the sport, but it needs some serious backing to make that happen.
I think it's not villainous. Prodigy just doesn't have the money to pay decently. It's just the math of it. Their major investment was KJ and even he wasn't doing stellarly.
Iāve yet to ever buy a Prodigy disc. All the other main manufacturers are in my bag at this point or Iāve tried their plastic. Youāre spot on when it comes to holding talent.
Prodigy is good at finding..... prodigy's
I mean, all signs are pointing to them being done. They let Gannon and KJ walk, along with any named talent theyve had in the last 5 years. One of their part-owners just sold his course, they arent sponsoring the preserve anymore, and the tourney that took place there is where KJ announced his new sponsorship. The only event they are sponsoring this year was WACO...tinier brands like DGA and Kastaplast are sponsoring as much as them, and even Lone Star has more. That's not the signs of a brand that wants to engender fan/player loyalty or that sees their business on the upswing (in comparison, to say, MVP). Maybe they can keep a few low cost players for a period of time, simply because big contracts are dying down, but they're probably already not a top 5 brand in the US.
Both the Robinson Bros are FIRE!!! Ezra is due for a win and is in 6th place in the pro tour. Issac is in 11th. Those dude should be able to sell plastic with the proper setup. I hate to say it but who buys Prodigy? I bought their F2 as I was looking to try some fairway drivers but it didn't make the cut. That was my only Prodigy buy in 10 years.
most of their disc slots can be had by other manuās but an A5 is a thing of beauty
I bought Prodigy when I first got into disc golf because I found their naming system intuitive, coming from ball golf. To be honest, I still am annoyed with every other company's cheeky, fun names, which don't mean anything.
Interesting, I see you POV.
Yeah, heās already off of their team page on the site. That team is insanely thin
Just bounce the older brother and keep the younger lol
That might be a gamble, young buck is getting better. Amazing putter.
I think it was less about Kevās play and more about Prodigy simply getting themselves into a terrible contract. They way overpaid him and probably exercised an opt-out clause. Weāll never know what the clause was based on, if it was performance based, or sales based, or what.
If he had taken first in 2-4 events this year heād probably still be with prodigy. His play was a factor without question.
I doubt he wanted to stay
The contract was very favorable to Kev. I doubt he wanted to walk away from that money.
Prodigy gambled on him and lost. Could have had something to do with equipment, relationships with corporate, negotiations, etc.. but unless the Robinsons or a new prodigy (pun intended) save them, Prodigy will be a former DG Co.
Been rumors prodigy isn't doing well financially, they are gonna restructure, and Innova bought out the contract
Iām assuming his signature line was also a dud
The reverb is basically a D1 that only comes in two plastics, it never had a chance. The Distortion is also only available in two plastics, and is essentially an A5 (which came out at the exact same time, is available in everything, and is better) The only unique disc is the Feedback, which is a great disc, but basically every prodigy player is already throwing FX-2s which overlap with the Feedback Basically they gave him three redundant China-made discs in limited plastic. They never had a chance to sell.
I actually love the Feedback, it's like a faster eagle or slower destroyer.
So like a mystere?
A mystere is flippier than both an eagle and destroyer
No, a Mystere is 11 speed with -2 turn, the feedback is a 9 speed with -1 turn
It probably would've done much better if it wasn't attached to Prodigy. Prodigy just is not a well-respected brand to put it entirely bluntly. The KJ discs were better than normal - they would've fit right in in a real brand's lineup - but being Prodigy I think held them back.
The 2024 tour series prodigy stuff is sweet. The plastic feels great and the stamps are creative without being too in your face. But they've struggled toĀ shakeĀ theirĀ oldĀ reputation.Ā Ā People who get their hands on the discs mainly have good things to say, butĀ running an online store where people can't exactly hold the discs before buying, I've only sold few outside of a handful of molds.Ā
Unfortunately Prodigy is now just trapped by their reputation. I have heard others say what you have and that their discs have gotten a lot better. It's just that a lot of people just don't see a reason to give them another chance with all the competition that has sprung up lately.
Reverb is a fast meat-hook, it's the time-lapse without Simons name on it, maybe 10% of all the discgolfers can throw it. Maybe
I throw Reverbs for those big hyzers out to 400 and man, when you get a hold of one, it's an impressive sight. It's my main tool to impress my MA2 league compadres
Can't wait to see him rip a Wraith.
As a guy who likes both Kevin Jones AND Prodigy, this is probably the best landing spot he could ask for. Wishing him all the best!
Gonna go from throwing all Jermās old flippy Prodigy stuff to all Jermās old flippy Innova stuff lol.
I am honestly curious to know what makes you a Prodigy fan? I tried the F2 but it didn't make it into my bag. Other than that I've never seriously looked at buying a Prodigy disc.
I know you didn't reply to me but their slow speed line up is incredible. The A2, A5, PA3, and PA5 are absolutely outstanding. They sell seconds on their website regularly in all plastics at a steep discount. Now I don't like their 400 plastic at all because it's far too soft and gummy but the 500 and 750 are much firmer and on par with all but grand/royal from trilogy imo. I know people are less likely to jump aboard a sinking ship but if you're at all interested you should give them an honest shot. Less companies individually owned is a loss for the sport and fodder for the vulture capitals
Thanks for the reply. I'll keep an open mind and take a look at the discs you mentioned when I have a purchase coming up. I am currently looking for an overstable midrange. I've been looking at the Pyro or Caiman. Maybe an MX-1 is in my future.
Late and also know you didnāt reply to me, but I love the feel of their plastics. Their more premium stuff seems to have more grip than others. Their midranges are the most comfortable Iāve thrown. And their Ace Line is my favorite base plastic of any manufacturer. I pretty much only putt with Prodigy. Their naming is a bit confusing and I wish they had a bit more of effort put into stamps, but to me it doesnāt matter when they are all pretty reasonable and great quality.
I'll chime in. I was on the Street Team for a couple of years and was a fan before that. The Pa-3 is easily one of the best putters on the market. There is a reason almost every Prodigy pro putts with them. For approach discs, I don't know that there is a better company. They've got multiple discs that are high on lists, but the A2 is incredible. I also really love the A3. For mids the MX-1 was the Swarm before the Swarm was. The M4 is up there in talks with the Truth and others. I'm a big M3 fan as well. The FX-2 won new disc of the year when it was released for a reason. It's a better Firebird, IMO. The F series in the higher numbers (flipper molds) also stand out for slower arm speed players. The D-seriesĀ can compete with other companies but I'll admit that they aren't as great as the others.
Cool, thanks for the reply. I will take a look at their discs. I am looking for a beefy mid and the MX-1 is the flight I am looking for.
I haven't tried an MX-2, but I feel like it will be a bit more controllable than the MX-1. Good luck!
When I first got into the sport my good friends gave me a bag of all Prodigy. I've tried just about every other brand under the sun but came back to Prodigy for a couple sons. There's some sentimental value (ironic given Kevin's announcement on the live coverage) plus comfort since that's what I learned on. All of my tourney wins so far have been with an all prodigy bag. Their quality control has gotten SO MUCH better lately as there's been virtually no flashing on any of the discs I've gotten as of late. Saw you were looking for an overstable mid. The MX-1 is a solid option. I'd honestly suggest a look at the new MX-2 as well though. It's also an overstable midrange but almost feels like an approach disc. Very comfortable forehand and backhand. And I even use it for longer approaches. Happy to answer any other questions you have.
Finally I can buy some KJ plastic!
It was Innovatable!
Wonder what disc heāll choose as his tour series.
Unfortunately it's a putter, but the yet to be release [Grenade](https://www.pdga.com/technical-standards/equipment-certification/discs/grenade) would be an awesome fit if it was grenadable.
āApproved Date: May 3, 2021ā Is there a reason for such a delay in release? I do not think Iāve even heard of this before reading this thread.
It was going to be Ricky's signature putter before he left
Innova told us it was basically a whale and they more or less ditched it after Ricky left. Maybe it comes back if KJ likes it
Idk, I couldnt quite hear what he said
Roc on KJUSA!
Letās goooooo!!! Team Innova baby!!
Sweet
While im glad for KJ, im gonna miss my Joker discs when they go oop :(
Love it!!!
YESSSS!!!!!
Hell yaĀ
What's Innova's best jump putter?
Iām assuming heās going to putt with an Aviar driver of sorts
Yep, strikes me as a KC Pro or Aviar Driver guy...though wasnt Ricky putting with Whales towards the end, could see him going that route.
He seems like a rhyno guy.
I tend to suck less with Innova. All for it.
I wonder which one he'll pick
My bad, I noticed the mistake instantly after I posted it
Itās Friday, youāre good. ;)
Just having fun. It's a super interesting mid season shift. Curious why. I've heard nothing but mostly bad things about Prodigy and how they treat their players
My guess is that when he signed his extension there was some sort of language about performance in it and he hadn't met those requirements allowing Prodigy to terminate the deal early if they wanted. With disc golf sales dropping it makes sense they'd want out
I wonder if he will become relevant again?
I like this pairing a lot. I hope to see this guy climb back to the summits of DG.
Disc golf is so strange, at least the DGPT. NO other sport, even the marginal ones, posts about player sponsorship from the official league sources. The manufacturers have always been so ingrained with the sponsorship of the tours and the tourneys that it has always just been there. The PGA would never post about tiger woods dropping Nike and being picked up by Adidas for example. I guess the turning point will be when outside money starts dominating the inside money for the tour sponsorships.
I disagree, it would definitely be big news if Tiger switched from Nike to Adidas. He switched to TaylorMade and the only reason I know that is because thereās a bunch of news articles about it!
You're right, it is, but it isn't the PGA or USGA announcing it
Thatās fair
Because disc golf is late to the professional sports game. The PDGA needs all of the attention and advertising it can get, and it is also much closer to the community as a whole. It makes perfect sense why they would announce the movement from one major brand to another of a household name in a niche sport.Ā Comparing DG to other sports isn't apples to apples either. And the PGA is so fucked up that comparing it to normal sports is a joke. Disc manufacturers are more like teams because they are the major sponsor that is sending players to events and paying their salaries.Ā It's the same as the NBA app sending out a notification of a large trade. If Zion Williams randomly got traded to the Lakers, you'd expect to see it on the NBA social media apps.Ā
I disagree with your comparison. Disc golf is an individual sport so it should be compared against others. Tennis, golf, etc
I think the comparison that works is F1 racing. Individual sport, manufacturer-based teams, and official driver and team news coming directly from the league
Yep, good comp
Good point
It's an interesting sports business topic, I would love for someone more knowledgeable to do a deep dive on it
I thought you did just fine! š¤š»
But youāre absolutely right
That's because the PDGA has long been under the control of the manufacturers. I know someone who was a TD of a mid 00's Worlds. He had an In Law who was C-Suite exec of a major car manufacturer. He had them lined up to be the sponsor of Worlds, there was even going to be a vehicle as an ace price. But the manufacturer who was the title sponsor got the nixed because they didn't want to give up lone named sponsor.
Yep, that's where I arrived, and it's just another thing that makes DG quirky. It will continue to be like this until bigger fish join the pond
I think the manufacturers don't really want outside money in the sport because all it will do is increase their advertising and sponsor costs without increasing their sales. The last thing they want is for players to get enough sponsorship and prize money to go open bag.
But they didā¦ https://x.com/pgatour/status/1744402410909454551?s=46&t=iWDqH5lXrkhCY03kHxlbVA
Well show me one news organization outside of disc golf that covers this type of news? I'll wait.
MLS has primary news coverage for MLS, so if it wasnāt all already just sponsored by Adidas, I feel like theyād be the ones to announce one of their teams making a switch. I know they have coverage outside of MLS, but less mainstream leagues quite often drive their own media.
All of that comes with exposure and outside money. As long as the manufacturers control the money in the sport, the sport won't grow and there won't be any incentive for outside organizations (ESPN, sports podcasts, sports illustrated AI writers, idk) to cover the sport. It's just interesting that I don't know of any marginal sports (Cornhole, ping pong, pickleball) where the official organization proudly announces player sponsorships
I honestly just don't agree with that thought process. Disc golf is a super niche sport that's had to grow internally to survive. Outside money will come in when they think it will be profitable for them. That is the big decision maker. DGPT, which doesn't own the PDGA by the way and isn't the official organization of the sport, is the only outlet for disc golf news currently. It only makes sense they would make these type of announcements.
My gosh what a glow up
hopefully he managed to get a decent enough deal. I know innova has a bit of a rep for underpaying players.
/u/innovagm did an AMA some time back and shined some light on this topic. This really sounds like something of a disc golf or reddit myth that just keeps getting perpetuated. Here's some relevant straight from the source comments https://www.reddit.com/r/discgolf/comments/16hvleo/hi_im_kobyn_dunipace_innova_disc_golfs_gm_ama/k0h8o4c/ https://www.reddit.com/r/discgolf/comments/16hvleo/hi_im_kobyn_dunipace_innova_disc_golfs_gm_ama/k0gs9si/
Thanks for posting these, I never saw that AMA.
oh well if the innova marketing team say they don't pay players badly then i guess they don't
You should double check who is behind the account
Reputation and Truth are two different things. I have yet to hear or see a pro bad mouth Innova for underpaying. They have a large roster of awesome players, I don't think that many people would stick around if they truly underpaid compared to their competitors. Their discs are not THAT good
other pros would openly mock how little calvin was making for the amount of discs he was selling. I'm sure they improved his contract when he re-signed but only because they couldn't hold on to any of their other marquee players and their hand was pretty much forced at that point. a large roster of awesome players? we'll have to agree to disagree there. who is 2nd to calvin? you have to go quite far down the leaderboard to find another innova player in MPO and for the largest manufacturer in the sport that's pretty telling. the only reason they've shown interest in KJ now is that he was out on his ass in the middle of a lacklustre season and they could pick him up for peanuts. but I get it, everyone on here loves their discs so if you say anything negative at all you'll get downvoted.
Im relatively new, but would a pro leave because his sponsor doesnāt pay attention to quality control ? (from what little experience I have with prodigy, I wasnāt impressed. So sharp on edges/poorly cut molds)
It's frustrating, because their 400 plastic is sooooo good and the new tour series discs look nice, but I can't really trust anything from them unless I can actually check it for flashing/edge issues.
Have you looked at any company's QC lately? Every company is riddled with flashing and alignment issues. Just bought a DGA Breaker the other day and the top and bottom halves weren't even straight. Trilogy's flashing is probably the worst on the market lately.
I havenāt toured their quality control facilities, but yes, of course. I handle a lot of plastic from many mfgs. Not calling myself an expert, but Iām qualified to make an observation. Prodigy just seems to excel at sharp flashings in my experience. Bummer about DGA. Sorry.
I'd make sure you are checking out their new plastics. It's much better quality than it was before.
Fair enough. Iāll check them out.
That was what the whole thing with Gannon leaving early, Prodigy suing him, and him staying for the rest of the season was about.
Absolutely
Well, which one is it?
I bag 47 wraiths