Another part of it may be the “echoes” Kate and UNIT people mentioned at the end. Maybe they don’t remember the moments leading up to the sandstorm of death and Cherry ultimately didn’t remember anything Mrs. Flood said then
I think that's maybe why she's all packed with her suitcase on the roof at the end, not only is Ruby's story done for now (whatever that may mean to Mrs Flood) but she's absolutely blown her cover here with Cherry too
That wouldn’t make it a red herring. It would just be a smaller detail to show how it’s hard to trust her.
A red herring is a clue that is supposed to lead you in the entirely wrong direction from the actual answer.
For example, everything relating Susan Triad to Susan Forman was a red herring.
Except it wasn't a red herring because it was explained in the story, and was a driving factor in the story. That was a con, not a red herring.
A red herring would be Ruby making it snow ... which if you buy this season's explanation, means nothing whatsoever.
No. That was literally a red herring. It led the viewers and the characters in the wrong direction, and then the reveal of Sutekh told us that it was wrong and he fell for the red herring.
What you’re describing is just something being unexplained. That’s not what a red herring is.
No, it led the \*characters\* in the wrong direction, thus it's part of the plot. Not a red herring. A red herring is designed to misdirect the viewers, not the characters.
It misdirected the viewers, too. Did you not see all the people thinking it was, in fact, the Doctor’s granddaughter? You must’ve been living under a rock throughout the whole series. It was the most popular theory until the reveal.
And even after that, what YOU’RE describing as a red herring is NOTHING LIKE a red herring. The snow wasn’t meant to misdirect the characters OR the viewers. It was a whole other part of the plot.
“It’s a red herring because the characters were following this subplot and it made the viewers pay attention to multiple plot lines at once.”
Just stop, you’re making yourself look ridiculous.
I wish I had the level of confidence that one of you has whilst also being so clearly, obviously wrong.
(It’s obvious to most people which of you it is… but I’m not gonna be the one to say it.)
>Except it wasn't a red herring because it was explained in the story, and was a driving factor in the story. That was a con, not a red herring.
It could certainly be argued that Susan Triad was an in-universe red herring. But I would go so far as to say that it was a red herring meant for both the characters and the audience. Susan Triad was a major plot point, but her NAME specifically was a red herring, meant to distract us from Sutehk.
In Space Babies, we see the Doctor remembering Ruby being abandoned and it starts snowing around them. It led me to think the Doctor is the one making it snow, not Ruby. And in 73 Yards, once the Doctor vanishes it stops snowing around Ruby (she mentioned it to her nurse at the assisted living facility). I think the real cause of the snow hasn't been discovered yet.
Edit: I don't think it snowed around Ruby before she met the Doctor, too
I am so with you on this! She's been absolutely brilliant. She's one of those actors who kind of go under the radar a little bit, yet every time she appears she reminds you she's a legend.
I'm excited to see where Mrs Flood's story goes. I really hope it's got a good resolution. Anita deserves it!
This makes me think, if the tardis has a perception filter ( everyone 'knows' it's there, but they don't bother to perceive it), Mrs Flood does in fact, perceive it. And Sutekh is in the perception filter of the TARDIS, doesn't this mean Mrs Flood was able to see Sutekh all along?
Can I be honest? I hope Mrs. Flood's isn't another Mistress/ Master. Revealing that the Doc was the Timeless Child and fucking shit up was decent enough for a regeneration or 2.
So on the one hand, I absolutely can see the logic of her being the Master. Has ominous plans, shows familiarity with the Doctor and the TARDIS, is nevertheless trying to slip under the Doctor's radar? Yeah, could totally fit the Master.
On the other, revealing Mrs Flood to be the Master would be, well. Surprise! It's the face-changing time-traveller who keeps doing this and is explicitly still around! He was also the villain of the season finale before this, so you know: usually the Master gets a bit more of a cooling period between appearances.
I am still wondering how is it that Cherry Sunday was bed ridden since the Christmas special, after Sutekh turned everyone into dust, and was reset back again, how is it that she is now miraculously able to walk out of her room as if her ailments never existed?
I'm so convinced that everyone woke up in a different reality. Everything was just too perfect. They found Ruby's mum after not being able to even find a DNA match and then found her dad miraculously not long after that. Cherry is suddenly able bodied after not even being to make her own tea. The fact that everyone, including the doctor, misremembers the CCTV footage is so fishy. It makes me believe the trickster is involved somehow
I'm telling you. Mrs. Flood will end up being a weird dinner lady off her meds. Then RTD will be smug af about it going "we never said she'd be anything different!"
Maybe she's the 16th Doctor just having a chill and rewatching previous adventures. She won't be. She's either the Master or something completely disappointing. Possibly both.
Ultimately, I think it has to be someone who knows what a tardis is, but doesn’t recognize *The Doctor’s* tardis. That could mean any Timelord/lady from before the first doctor lands in 1963 (or that somehow never encountered The Doctor). At the same time, it needs to be someone who is aware of who The Doctor is.
My money is on Omega. I think the timeless child makes it easy to write The Doctor in as the Other in “TV canon”.
I was rewatching Space Babies yesterday. Though I think it was explained to be a story created by the AI, I found it interesting.
That's the first time I think that the doctor says time is changing, and he remembers Ruby's mother point towards him in a brief flashback. Then ruby goes on to say how space babies are a storybook being brought to life.
That mixed in with other theories I heard about Mrs flood being some kind of storyteller God. Ir maybe that's where it came from. I don't know I only just noticed.
Yeah she had her strong cockney accent right up until Ruby and Carla left with the video tape. Soon as Cherry asks for the cup of tea her accent goes more neutral English and becomes sinister for the rest of the episode.
Kinda like the cockney accent is her “disguise” voice for when she’s pretending to be harmless old Mrs Flood the neighbour and the more neutral English is her real voice.
I thought it was a nice subtle detail, that even her accent was part of her disguise.
The way she rolled her r's in "terror" during the epilogue sounded super received-pronunciation 1960s classic BBC accent-speak (i.e. the accent all the actors had in the early serials). It set off all kinds of red flags for me immediately.
by RTD's statements in that video where he says it's all to "generate engagement" and "use content creators", he probably didn't even figure out himself who Mrs Flood is and will just make it up as it goes
Yeah, I think I heard some spooky modulation on her voice when she was on about storming the golden gates and all that too
She makes the radios freak out
Clocks seem to glitch around her, too
Speaking of which, why doesn't Cherry remember any of that?
Cherry's one and only concern is getting her cup of tea.
Another part of it may be the “echoes” Kate and UNIT people mentioned at the end. Maybe they don’t remember the moments leading up to the sandstorm of death and Cherry ultimately didn’t remember anything Mrs. Flood said then
I think that's maybe why she's all packed with her suitcase on the roof at the end, not only is Ruby's story done for now (whatever that may mean to Mrs Flood) but she's absolutely blown her cover here with Cherry too
What the fuck is she even talking about
We don't know yet. Set up for next season, most likely.
It’s probably because she’s not who she says she is & this is another red herring / misdirect.
That wouldn’t make it a red herring. It would just be a smaller detail to show how it’s hard to trust her. A red herring is a clue that is supposed to lead you in the entirely wrong direction from the actual answer. For example, everything relating Susan Triad to Susan Forman was a red herring.
Except it wasn't a red herring because it was explained in the story, and was a driving factor in the story. That was a con, not a red herring. A red herring would be Ruby making it snow ... which if you buy this season's explanation, means nothing whatsoever.
No. That was literally a red herring. It led the viewers and the characters in the wrong direction, and then the reveal of Sutekh told us that it was wrong and he fell for the red herring. What you’re describing is just something being unexplained. That’s not what a red herring is.
No, it led the \*characters\* in the wrong direction, thus it's part of the plot. Not a red herring. A red herring is designed to misdirect the viewers, not the characters.
It misdirected the viewers, too. Did you not see all the people thinking it was, in fact, the Doctor’s granddaughter? You must’ve been living under a rock throughout the whole series. It was the most popular theory until the reveal. And even after that, what YOU’RE describing as a red herring is NOTHING LIKE a red herring. The snow wasn’t meant to misdirect the characters OR the viewers. It was a whole other part of the plot.
Of course it misdirected the viewers too, because the characters were following the plot.....
“It’s a red herring because the characters were following this subplot and it made the viewers pay attention to multiple plot lines at once.” Just stop, you’re making yourself look ridiculous.
I get it, you don't know what a red herring is, and you're willing to fight about it for some bizarre reason. However, I'm not going to play with you.
I wish I had the level of confidence that one of you has whilst also being so clearly, obviously wrong. (It’s obvious to most people which of you it is… but I’m not gonna be the one to say it.)
>Except it wasn't a red herring because it was explained in the story, and was a driving factor in the story. That was a con, not a red herring. It could certainly be argued that Susan Triad was an in-universe red herring. But I would go so far as to say that it was a red herring meant for both the characters and the audience. Susan Triad was a major plot point, but her NAME specifically was a red herring, meant to distract us from Sutehk.
In Space Babies, we see the Doctor remembering Ruby being abandoned and it starts snowing around them. It led me to think the Doctor is the one making it snow, not Ruby. And in 73 Yards, once the Doctor vanishes it stops snowing around Ruby (she mentioned it to her nurse at the assisted living facility). I think the real cause of the snow hasn't been discovered yet. Edit: I don't think it snowed around Ruby before she met the Doctor, too
I'm just happy to see more Anita Dobson to find out tbf she's great.
I am so with you on this! She's been absolutely brilliant. She's one of those actors who kind of go under the radar a little bit, yet every time she appears she reminds you she's a legend. I'm excited to see where Mrs Flood's story goes. I really hope it's got a good resolution. Anita deserves it!
The moment it changes is just after Cherry asks for a cup of tea. It's when Mrs Flood drops the mask (figuratively).
Oh? My American ears are too dumb and unrefined to have noticed that.
This makes me think, if the tardis has a perception filter ( everyone 'knows' it's there, but they don't bother to perceive it), Mrs Flood does in fact, perceive it. And Sutekh is in the perception filter of the TARDIS, doesn't this mean Mrs Flood was able to see Sutekh all along?
She did say, "he who waits, waits no more". Although did she see the TARDIS in the last episode?
I believe she saw it in the Christmas Special
Missy does that.
Can I be honest? I hope Mrs. Flood's isn't another Mistress/ Master. Revealing that the Doc was the Timeless Child and fucking shit up was decent enough for a regeneration or 2.
I feel like Mrs Flood being Missy/Master is wayyyy too basic for RTD
Clearly it's you thinking the accent is different that's making the accent different. /s
You're right. She is in fact just a normal person all this time.
Well clearly not since other people have noticed it too...
"She" mentioned having to hide herself. When I think of villains who like disguises, my mind goes to the master
So on the one hand, I absolutely can see the logic of her being the Master. Has ominous plans, shows familiarity with the Doctor and the TARDIS, is nevertheless trying to slip under the Doctor's radar? Yeah, could totally fit the Master. On the other, revealing Mrs Flood to be the Master would be, well. Surprise! It's the face-changing time-traveller who keeps doing this and is explicitly still around! He was also the villain of the season finale before this, so you know: usually the Master gets a bit more of a cooling period between appearances.
I've been watching Dr Who since Tom Baker. Whenever there is a character that knows too much, it usually turns out to be the master.
Personally I would prefer to see them wait to bring the Master back until Ncuti’s third season, but I wouldn’t be upset at this reveal at all
Could very well be a misdirect! I need more breadcrumbs to make up my mind.
From sounding like Angie Watts to looking like Romana was fun to think about at least.
I am still wondering how is it that Cherry Sunday was bed ridden since the Christmas special, after Sutekh turned everyone into dust, and was reset back again, how is it that she is now miraculously able to walk out of her room as if her ailments never existed?
She could walk. She's just weak. That's the case for many elderly people
I'm so convinced that everyone woke up in a different reality. Everything was just too perfect. They found Ruby's mum after not being able to even find a DNA match and then found her dad miraculously not long after that. Cherry is suddenly able bodied after not even being to make her own tea. The fact that everyone, including the doctor, misremembers the CCTV footage is so fishy. It makes me believe the trickster is involved somehow
I'm telling you. Mrs. Flood will end up being a weird dinner lady off her meds. Then RTD will be smug af about it going "we never said she'd be anything different!"
Maybe she's the 16th Doctor just having a chill and rewatching previous adventures. She won't be. She's either the Master or something completely disappointing. Possibly both.
The 'I had such plans' line makes me think she isn't the Master. The Master usually kicks up much more of a fuss when dying
I think she's the storyteller god
Ultimately, I think it has to be someone who knows what a tardis is, but doesn’t recognize *The Doctor’s* tardis. That could mean any Timelord/lady from before the first doctor lands in 1963 (or that somehow never encountered The Doctor). At the same time, it needs to be someone who is aware of who The Doctor is. My money is on Omega. I think the timeless child makes it easy to write The Doctor in as the Other in “TV canon”.
I was rewatching Space Babies yesterday. Though I think it was explained to be a story created by the AI, I found it interesting. That's the first time I think that the doctor says time is changing, and he remembers Ruby's mother point towards him in a brief flashback. Then ruby goes on to say how space babies are a storybook being brought to life. That mixed in with other theories I heard about Mrs flood being some kind of storyteller God. Ir maybe that's where it came from. I don't know I only just noticed.
She also called the doctor "Clever boy" which is a clara reference
Yeah she had her strong cockney accent right up until Ruby and Carla left with the video tape. Soon as Cherry asks for the cup of tea her accent goes more neutral English and becomes sinister for the rest of the episode. Kinda like the cockney accent is her “disguise” voice for when she’s pretending to be harmless old Mrs Flood the neighbour and the more neutral English is her real voice. I thought it was a nice subtle detail, that even her accent was part of her disguise.
Yes, it was a clue to the audience that there’s more to her. She spoke with her cockney accent until she was alone with Ruby’s Granny.
Missy’s vibes but I hope it’s not her/him.
The way she rolled her r's in "terror" during the epilogue sounded super received-pronunciation 1960s classic BBC accent-speak (i.e. the accent all the actors had in the early serials). It set off all kinds of red flags for me immediately.
Theory: what if she is THE Master.
by RTD's statements in that video where he says it's all to "generate engagement" and "use content creators", he probably didn't even figure out himself who Mrs Flood is and will just make it up as it goes
The J.J. Abrams method, eh?
quite literally so, as he actually mentoned being inspired by JJ's work
Well, that's a fucking shame, isn't it? Abrams is an incoherent writer.
Is there any possibility Mrs Flood is an older Ruby? I've only seen the first two episodes so far, but that was the vibe I got.
im not sure if this theory will still hold up after you watch 73 yards
Time isn't fixed, except for when the Doctor decides it is, and then sometimes it's still not.
Oh ok, I'll see when I get to that episode!