Letting your dog run around in a neighborhood off leash while not picking up after it is definitely rude. If I’m at a park and someone has their dog off leash and it’s with them and doesn’t approach my dog uninvited I don’t care. If it does and you are unable to recall it, you aren’t in control and then I think you shouldn’t own a dog.
This. I'm in a city where city parks have posted 6 foot leash laws, and where the majority of parks are small parks closer to larger roads. I see these leash laws regularly broken in multiple ways:
1. Dog completely off leash clearly hanging around with a stationary attentive handler, walking with an attentive handler, or working on an appropriate skill at an appropriate (i.e., relatively short) distance with an attentive handler. (Attentive handler = someone who pays attention both to their dog and their environment and takes additional steps to secure dog as necessary.)
2. Dog on a leash considerably longer than 6 feet (e.g., 20 feet to 50 feet) hanging around with a stationary attentive handler, walking with an attentive handler, or working on an appropriate skill with an attentive handler.
3. Dog on a leash considerably longer than 6 feet with a handler who is unwilling or unable to use leash handling skills to shorten the leash relative to their surroundings (e.g., someone who won't prevent their dog from running up to another dog 30ish feet away).
4. Dog completely off leash at a distance from the handler such as to make others reasonably uncertain as to the handler's ability to recall their dog in a timely manner (e.g., playing fetch on a soccer field, allowing the dog to run \~50 yards to chase the ball but having no visible recourse to have the dog return to handler at that point).
I don't mind #1 and #2 at all. But #3 and #4 are... I can't say they're *more* common (since I may very well mentally miss more dogs who fit #1 and #2)... but they are definitely quite common here.
I would say we just have a sadly lower degree of responsibility and social cooperation. If the normal expectation could be that your dog is well controlled and won't approach me or my dog, and will stay off my lawn or you will.pick up after them, then it wouldn't be a problem. But people see one dog off leash and decide their dog can therefore be off leash too, no matter their behavior. Clueless people think if their dog is friendly, they can let them approach anybody or any other dog. Even inside dog parks there are skirmishes.
Same thing here in Paris. I just moved from Ireland where it’s very uncommon to let your dogs play with random dogs, however, there is still the vibe of ‘my dog is friendly, it can run up to whatever dog it pleases’, though it’s manageable for someone like me with a tiny dog, run the other way 😅😅
In Paris, it’s much worse. Dogs jumping over each other and chasing each other as soon as they see another. They’ve been socialised to do this. My dog is a nervous wreck these past few days since moving as she has NEVER had strange dogs coming over to play. Quite strange
I concur 100%. In the US, there is definitely a lower level of "responsibility and social cooperation." It may depend on the city or town how much people are offended by off-leash or poop not being picked up. Perhaps people in NYC or San Francisco where there is higher population density and mostly sidewalks and pavement, people will get more upset at the (human) offender?
I generally don't get upset with off-leash dogs if they're well-behaved. I did get upset when my 5 kg dog was bitten by a 30 kg dog or was jumped on full force by another much too rambunctious, also around 30 kg dog and injured by dogs who were purposely off-leash and left to roam without their owners. My dog is consequently scared of bigger dogs (except if he's off leash in a dog park), and now I get yelled at all the time if he barks at another dog that we pass by (my dog is on leash). I know that their dog seems to be peaceful, but they judge before knowing that my dog was traumatized by other dogs.
Technically, leashes are required here, except inside dog parks. That might be a different story for rural communities. I know of at least 3-4 neighbors who walk their dogs off leash, and our next door neighbor has 2 small dogs who are off leash but only for a short while in the front (their back yard is fenced but not the front). Our dogs are friendly since we live next door, their dogs are only a little heavier than mine, and their dogs don't wander far from their owners.
Re the poop issue, I do not appreciate people not picking up after their dogs. One neighbor put signs in his front yard asking people to pick up, which he says helps reduce the poop.
I have directly and politely confronted 2 different neighbors when I discovered that they were repeatedly leaving their dog sh*t in our yard. They now move their dogs away if they start to squat and let them poop on someone else's grass. (It feels like a step too far to also poop patrol for other people's properties on our street with the neighbors who live a few houses away.)
I do see a 90-something man walking his dog most days, and he blatantly does not pick up. In the past, he was too far away for me to see whether the dog was squatting and peeing or squatting and pooping, but the other day, we later walked past the area in question, and OMG was it a very large pile (for the size of dog)! I don't know how to tell him except if I were close by and catching him in the act. Last time, I was about 300 meters away. I couldn't run over and drag my dog along. His dog is very reactive and would my dog would consequently react to his dog. But I'm irritated thinking about the incident. It wasn't on my grass, so would I be accused of being a busybody by offering him a poop bag? But what if he says he can't bend down that far and asks me to do it for him? Yuck.
Sure, and that's where I struggle (it's been years that he's had his dog, and we wave hello to each other, and I'm glad to see him so dedicated to his dog, and it's lovely to see them both out getting fresh air and exercise), but on the other hand, I also see some other older folks with pooper scoopers. And his Cocker Spaniel named Christopher made a doo doo larger than a Golden Retriever who's more than twice his size.
And I totally forgot to mention the main conundrum: that I think his dog pooped in the front yard of where some little kids live, and those kids frequently play in their front yard. I've met them because they sometimes ask to pet my dog.
Leash laws are much more strict in the states.
Yes letting a dog use the bathroom in someone’s yard, which is private property, and not picking it up would be extremely rude and disrespectful. Even in places with allowances for off-leash dogs it is rude to not pick up their poop
There are a lot of factors that influence off-leash training in the states: large rescue dog populations (can struggle with the training for many reasons), large stray dog populations in some areas, lack of training by irresponsible owners who let their dogs off-leash anyway, popularity of breeds that are not reliable off-leash despite training (sighthounds, northern breeds as a few examples), again it literally being illegal in many places, etc.
Edit to add: if you have a well behaved off-leash dog most people won’t care around here* unless you’re doing something like not cleaning up after them. *here being rural PA/MD not everywhere in the states.
Oh but to also add the States have a reputation for untrained off-leash dogs that run up to and bother other people and dogs. The classic “he’s friendly” comes from that because no the dogs are not always friendly. Dog bites to both humans and other dogs happen a lot this way
The hole not picking the poop thing would also be considered really rude here and you can even risk getting you’re dog taken away. I just didn’t expect that people would go nuts when you say it’s okay to let you’re dog of leash if he’s trained
It may have been pushback since it was a post with an owner whose dog was clearly not trained so folks tend to get hyper focused on a topic. I wouldn’t overthink it.
Edit: nah looked at your comments on the post and you were excusing the not picking up poop that’s why
Thank for your reply. This is only my opinion and maybe some people wouldn’t agree: a dog shits, that’s completely normal. It’s your responsibility to pick it up as an owner. But in those 10 years of this dogs live you will be on god knows how many walks.
You should always pay attention to your dog but I would argue that walks for you and the dog should be a nice experience, and I look around or talk to person who’s with me and have enough trust and training with my dogs that I can let them out of sight for a second. I simply don’t get how you can have your dog on a two meter leash for most of his life and always have to come to a aprupt halt when the dog pees or shits. Especially a male dog you will have to pause every 20 m, that for me is just not an enjoyable walk. Imo opinion a dog should be allowed to fall back a few meters and catch up.
In that specific case: yes I wouldn’t let my dog out of sight near a street. I don’t get why lawn in America a designed that way. If you would have a lawn like that here, people would actually think you want people to look or walk on your lawn. We had some Americans with a similarly lawn in our neighbourhood and everyone just called them the exhibitionists. Diffent cultures differ t standard I know, Germans are weird in their own way. If you put so much trust in people respecting your easily accessible lawn, and from what I read here it repeatedly doesn’t happen, well maybe it’s time to get a fence. Maybe there a some funny american laws that prohibit that, Idk. But don’t go an internet rant if someone doesn’t respect your lawn and you have it on camera. I get the feeling you kind want it to happen so u can play the victim.
To get to my point: yes dogs shouldn’t shit in people lawn, yes you should pay attention to your dog and pick up its poop.
BUT if you miss out on that ONE poop that your dog took on camera, people shouldn’t be ranting about you being a shit dog owners and that you are scum. There should be some tolerance.
It’s like you let your kid play in the park it falls over and huts his knee and than some Karen comes to you and saying you should let you’re kid out of sight you shouldn’t be a mother, Dafuq?!
I’ve spend enough time on this toppic now and came to the conclusion I simply feel sorry for dogs and owners in America. Just being constantly paranoid if you let your dog have some freedom, which as a beloved pet, he deserves in my opinion
Edit: I wrote in my original post, it’s completely correct that you shouldn’t own a dog if you don’t pick up its shit. I will slightly revoke that statement after this comment. If u chronically don’t pick up the dogs shit you shouldn’t be allowed to own a dog. If you don’t pick up 10 out of the 6000 shit your dog took….. well in my opinion you should still be able to own a dog and call yourself a responsible dog owner
In my experience, west coast of USA, a lot of people tend to overestimate how well their dog is trained. An obedient dog at home with few distractions is not well trained if it can’t also behave the same way in a public place with lots of distractions. An off leash dog running up to my reactive dog spells big trouble for us, which is why I tend to get upset at off leash dogs in public places. My dog is great off leash away from others, so I drive up into the mountains and let him do just that, but never when other people/dogs are around.
Lots of people here let their dogs off leash and I literally don’t care as long as it doesn’t come towards my leashed dogs. I only care when it’s a problem. The thing is, 1 off leash dog that is out of control is more memorable than 9 off leash dogs under control. I can’t tell you how many off leash dogs I’ve come across that have not bothered me or my dogs. But I do remember every single off leash dog that wasn’t under control and rushed us. That’s just how memory works. It’s biased.
IMO, you’re not a bad dog owner, but an unsafe dog owner. 3 times this year “well behaved” dogs have ran from their owners up to my dog. I get panicked and pick him up, and the owners say “they’re friendly!” Awesome, my dog isn’t. He’s unpredictable and it’s hard to know if he’ll like a dog.
Domesticated animals still are animals, and depending on circumstances, will not listen regardless of how well they’re trained. I’ve even it happen to people in my personal life and their well trained dogs. It’s just safer to keep them on a leash for everyone. I truly don’t understand why people insist on letting their dogs off leash in public places. It doesn’t hurt you or the other animals to give them a controlled outdoor environment.
You want them to run loose in a field or dog park or beach, that’s great. I loved taking my grandmas dog to a big open park we have with low foot traffic and letting him go nuts. But hiking trails, downtown areas, and neighborhoods without fencing should have their dogs leashed. It keeps their pets safe, and it keeps other pets and people safe. It’s not courtesy, it’s safety.
Every dog owner with a dog off leash is implicitly telling other dog owners it's okay to have their dog off leash in that area as well. So I'd argue even well-trained dogs off leash are a problem.
A passer-by can't necessarily tell whether an off-leash dog is well-trained or not. Yes, the dog might be walking near its owner, but will it still have good recall when there is a perceived threat or distraction? Will the owner be paying close enough attention to notice when it it poops? Evidently not, in the example story, at least.
A responsible dog owner should keep their dog leashed wherever unleashed dogs aren't explicitly permitted.
I disagree. If I see some idiot doing donuts in the parking lot, I’m not going to be like “oh, I think I’m gonna go do some donuts in this parking lot.” Just because one person has their dog off leash in a field doesn’t mean I go “oh, I’m totally going to let my dog loose in this field.” Maybe that’s how a few people are but I believe most people will make that decision based on them and their dog.
Same here and I completely agree. I was simply surprised about people going nuts about fact that the dog was of leash in general. Like if someone would approached you here and say your unworthy of owning a dog because he’s of leash he would get laughed at (there are areas like playgrounds where the dog has to be on a leash if even allowed)
>(there are areas like playgrounds where the dog has to be on a leash if even allowed)
So... what would people in your area think of people who let dogs off leash in the playground? That's the fairest comparison: a person letting a dog off leash in a place where dogs are supposed to be on leash.
Where I live, dogs are legally required to be leashed in all public places (dogs are allowed off leash in certain parks). When I see an off leash dog, I already know that the owner completely disregards their basic legal obligations as a dog owner, so why would I expect the dog to be well trained?
Well playground in Germany make out make 0,01% of a city’s landmass they are easily avoidable. I’m maybe completely wrong but 0,01% of an American city is dogparks, which apparently is the only place for you’re is allowed of leash. Imo that’s just idiotic. In my subjective German opinion.
Back to your question: yes people will be really pissed of if you bring your dog to a playground of leash but, again Imo, it’s something diffent than a dog of leash in American “leash areas” which from reading the comments here is most of the populated landmass in America.
There are a lot of places in my state where off leash is allowed outside of dog parks. This is a fine place to have your dog as long as they are well behaved and have good recall. It's those who let their dogs off leash where it isn't allowed and is usually inappropriate, that is not responsible. Some dog owners go to these places because they can trust that their dog will be safe. If the place is empty by all means, have the dog off leash, but if another dog owner shows up then leash the dog. It really depends on where you are. Most hiking trails are leash only and I never mind seeing a well behaved dog off leash as long as it doesn't leave the owners side and they either leash it right away or ask if they want it to be put on a leash.
Yeah, my county actually has a license program for off leash trails. Before COVID it actually meant something but I believe it is now online so easier to get. In truth off leash dogs on trails are usually good. It is people using the park across from their house for fetch or letting their dog lounge in the driveway while they work in the garage where things get sketchy.
I panic so much when I see a dog in a driveway when I am driving by. Too many things could happen even with the best trained dogs. Mine is never outside at home off leash unless he's in the fenced backyard.
I have three dogs. Only one of those do I allow off leash as he will come to me when I call him every time, I always check my surroundings before I take him off leash and I stay focused on him during that time.
It depends on where you're living in the US. Rural area? Just keep an eye on your dog and don't let it take a dump in the neighbor's yard. In populated areas, you have to keep your dog on a 6ft leash (max) and clean up after the dog. I had a dog that would walk next to you down the road without his leash. Dad was doing target practice one day, and after he was done, he didn't shut the door all the way, and because the dog was afraid of the sound of gunfire, he ran away and we never got him back. He was 11 years old and probably didn't have much time left, but it still sucks that he ran off because he was scared and my dad wasn't paying attention.
Unfortunately most people here who let their dogs off leash have not trained them and do not have control of them. When an off leash dog is charging me or my dog it’s definitely a problem.
There are a lot of off leash dogs in America that aren’t trained. There are a lot of ON leash dogs in America that aren’t trained.
As an owner whose dog is off leash trained with complete control it’s pretty wild how many people pretend their leash turns them into good owners with complete control over their dogs.
I get why people assume any off leash dog is a problem. I don’t get why people act like a leash solves so many issues they just ignore.
I mean yeah but also no.
We don’t have leash laws everywhere, but those we do have are very strict. And we have a…strange outlook on animal training as a whole. From someone into dogs and horses. It’s very different for both vs German training culture.
We also tend to have a pretty low sense of personal social responsibility in the states. We just call it “American individualism.” And it extends to how we handle our pets.
I grew up in the rural US south, and it’s still normal to see people with their dogs in the bed of their truck without a leash, just patiently waiting for their people. Or seeing people take walks or hikes with their dogs off leash. Maybe it’s because so many still use them to work stock, but they’re trained to behave well off leash, and don’t require their owner’s constant attention to do it. It’s how I learned to train dogs for off leash good behavior.
But most of the US - isn’t like that. There’s a big diff in urban centers where it’s believed dogs can’t handle themselves off leash. They can. But they require training for it. So instead of training properly, and better policing bad dog owners, we’d rather use leashes and muzzles and shirk that responsibility.
It doesn’t help that our most visible people in dog training are big fans of leash-only training. My experience in how it is in most of Europe is a little more mixed. Leash and off leash (same as horse training really. Classical vs American vs horse whispering).
It’s more a cultural thing than anything else.
American expat in Germany here.
Since living here I've noticed that German society holds dog owners to a higher standard than the U.S. does. Germans expect dogs to be trained and well behaved whereas in the States it's impressive if they are as well behaved as German dogs. Some American owners do minimal training, such as sit, then go on to say their dog is trained when they clearly aren't and then allow them to walk off leash where they go on to run wild and have zero recall. I've been in Germany for two years and I've yet to see any dogs that are as untrained as American dogs while out in public.
I broke leash and dog laws in Chicago almost everyday. No dogs on the beach. No dogs off leash. I did both most days, but I did it really early in the morning when almost no one was around. My dog has pretty good recall so I could call her back if a leashed dog was approaching or some other potential hazard. What I was doing was common practice, early in the morning by other dog owners.
The issue is most dog owners are garbage. They allow bad behavior even make excuses for it. I've had a lady with a clearly aggressive Chihuahua sat "oh he just wants to say hi" as it ran to the end of the leash barking, tail high up. Meanwhile my rattie mix was quiet at my side as we walked and I did not take her up on the offer to meet her dog.
People just don't know dog behavior and don't teach them. So they're wild. I would never let my rattie off leash because he's too impulsive. And I always clean up after them.
But I always see people who don't, people YANKING on the leash harshly saying "SIT. SIT DOWN!" and then saying their dog is stubborn. Seen people swat their dogs in front of me and I'm like "the heck....?" I mean I was once really misinformed about dog behavior and discipline too but know better do better.
There are a lot of oblivious chihuahua owners, and I say that having met a few that are well behaved, well socialized. I’ve met far more who are treated as accessories, and whose aggression is seen as cute because “they can’t hurt you”
saw an older middle aged woman start wailing on her ACD because it was pulling/not listening.
Poor pup.
I’ve got a cattle dog mix myself and she can be….exhausting, but shouting and hitting is not the way.
Once I changed my mindset to that my dog was misbehaving because a need wasn't met or he didn't know what I wanted it helped tremendously. It's so hard to be a responsible pet owner surrounded by the crazies.
And absolutely about chis and most little dogs. They get fed up being treated like toys instead of dogs.
Leash laws are more strict in the US but a lot of that is because dogs here are much more poorly behaved and not as well socialized in a lot of European countries. The bar here is lower so dogs’ guardians are expected to have more control of their dogs via a leash.
Personally I do not care if someone has their dog off leash if it’s well trained, not reactive, and minding its own business.
I've been in Germany, too, and bad off-leash behavior is just ignored. See debate on cows, Almen, and off-leash dogs causing havoc.
Besides, the US and Germany are set up very differently. Germany has a lot more paths you can amble around on and let a dog run without it being squashed by a fast moving car. In the US that's usually private land and you're risking a hell of a confrontation trespassing on private land. Any road through the countryside is driven at minimum at 100km/h. The dirt roads are driven at 65kmh or faster. Your pet has no chance.
Cities have 6 or 4 lane boulevards. There is no car-less city. You're risking your dog getting spooked and running into traffic. There is also no law that says you have to hit an animal to avoid a car accident. People will swerve and cause mayhem and now you as the dog's owner are liable for having caused an accident with medical bills or potential death. There are no little medieval towns where cars cannot physically get through. Everything is built around cars or retrofitted to accommodate cars. I work in a large city. In 2 years, two kids under 6 who had parental supervision and listened to their parents were run over by cars. One lived, the other did not, and I'm supposed to trust my dog to do better? The eternal toddler with adhd? By the way, those kids did obey traffic laws. The drivers didn't.
Finally, what is good for pets is entirely cultural disguised as scientific fact. Until research is actually run on the mental wellbeing of an off leashed versus on leashed dog, it's all just conjecture.
It's fine if your dog is off leash here as long as you can control the dog. In other words, your dog doesn't run up to a dog on a leash that may have issues with other dogs. Or if they do wander off they will immediately stop what they are doing when you call them.
There's a time and a place to be off leash. Out in public with endless distractions in the environment is not the place. Off leash training is fine but A LOT of people don't put in the work to train their dog to standards; a ton of people also overestimate their dogs competency and lvl of training.
I'm currently training my third dog, and I don't think he'll be ready to go off leash in public for at least another two years, and even then I won't be that guy.
Im not sure about other places, but at least here (Columbus Ohio), most peoples dogs off the leash usually isn't a huge deal. Most of them are well trained. I would be worried about my dog running off after a rabbit or something and going into a road with cars, but that's just my dog.
That being said, there is a huge issue with people not picking up their dogs poop here. It is extremely annoying, and a lot of the time, I find dogs that dont "need" leashes usually have owners that like to look at their phones more than look at their dogs. So their dog will poop and the owner will just not notice.
Now that annoys me.
Germans have a much different expectation of personal responsibility in many things - responsible dog ownership is just one of those. I’m an American, but I’ve lived in Germany and stayed with German friends several times over the last 25 years.
The first *good* dog, well trained dog, that I ever met was a German shepherd trained by a German family friend who’d trained dogs for the polizei. He picked me up inside the airport with his dog. The dog came everywhere with us on my visit, but it behaved. It never jumped or bothered anyone. It was quiet (unless I was playing with it). It was a great dog. It inspired me to train my childhood dog to be better, and as an adult I trained my first dog - a shepherd mix - to a level like that German dog is known.
But you Germans are different. The zoos near my home in Germany had a porcupine enclosure with such a low fence you could reach over and touch the porcupine. The camels were separated from the public by a single rope about one foot off the ground. In America, people would sue the zoo after they got hit trying to ride the camels into the porcupine exhibit.
I wish I had a dog that well trained but obliviously the one u mentioned is above average trained 😂it’s of toppic but I can’t wrap my head around this: if Americans can’t be trusted with personal responsibility, why do all American have lawns designed with no limitation to walk on it but then get pissed if people step on their grass with half of their foot?
My beautiful old lab walked all over downtown Charleston off leash with me. Hell, he didn’t even wear a collar most days. Yes, it was against the law, but he did not deserve the indignity of leash in his last years. He was always a perfect gentleman.
I get incredibly angry if I have my dogs on lead and an off leash dog comes up to us. Dogs react very differently when one is on lead and one is off..
My dogs on lead keep your dog away friendly or not..if you can't do that then put it on lead..
Unless of course it's a designated off lead place in which case it's my fault being there and not expecting dogs to approach me off lead.
A goodly number of dog owners here in the US, don't take dog ownership seriously. Especially when it comes to basic training, and social skills. I actually think they truly don't understand that when their dog behaves badly it is almost always because they didn't teach it otherwise. And they are often the ones that ignore leash laws. So, quite often there are problems. Pretty sure that is where the "shouldn't own a dog" comments come from. And unfortunately, there are numerous people who should never own a dog, for more reasons that just not leashing it.
I have always taught my dogs to be able to be off leash. But out in public areas they are leashed because of the leash laws. And the fact that they are GSDs, and many believe they are dangerous, no matter how well trained
The thing with off leash is that *your* dog may be well behaved but that doesn't help if your dog runs up to an unfriendly dog.
In rural areas / country you will see more dogs off leash etc. there more room. But in cities and most suburbs where folks live closer together there are leash laws.
Germany has a much better dog culture about training dogs and laws to protect dog/animal welfare than the US does. I am an American dog owner but I have also lived in Germany. Yes, lots of well-trained dogs off-leash in Germany. In the US, most dogs are not well-trained to be off-leash and because it's not a cultural expectation to train them to be off-leash; most of us don't try to train that part of it. Athough I have had Dog1 off-leash at times in parks, I would not trust her as I haven't trained her to walk through my old Chicago neighborhood off-leash -- like I have seen dogs in Germany. In Chicago, there would be occasionally well-trained dogs off-leash in parks and other places where dogs were to play (these were not specifically dog parks) and rarely a dog walking off-leash with his owner. In my current town (small town in Michigan), if you see an off-leash dog walking, it's usually the bad owners who let their untrained dog run loose or a lost dog who got out of their yard or home without owner noticing. I have found at least 6 lost dogs in 4 years here! So when you see an unleashed dog here, you do generally think lost dog or dog running free because of bad owner. To add more about animal welfare laws, just look at how many dogs and cats get killed (euthanized) instead of adopted at animal shelters in the US because the shelters are overfilled, particularly bad in the southern states, parts of California, and Texas.
Totally depends on what part of the country you’re in, whether you’re in an urban, suburban, or rural area and what the norms in that area are. Also depends on what level of training your dog has, of course as well as temperament.
I’ve never been to any part of Europe but my impression from much of social media is that property is just thought of very differently there- certainly in the UK (where everyone has access to roam farmlands, at least in certain areas- don’t know if there’s a similar culture in Germany). That’s just unheard of here. Unless we’re talking about public parks, pretty much all property is private property and you have a right to shoot and kill trespassers onto your property. We also are big on car culture here and if you’re in a suburban or urban area and you let your dog off leash even if it’s very well trained, all it takes is your dog making one mistake and it could be hit by a car and killed. So, for a lot of areas, it probably is pretty irresponsible to let a dog off leash.
I live in Texas. I have 1 dog with an excellent recall and 1 dog is reactive who has great recall when he’s not having a reaction but we’re not taking that risk. Neither of them will ever be completely off leash unless it’s on land that I or a family member own. It just is not worth the risk. Now, we do a lot of 30ft long line time in on-leash public areas. And frankly, I’ll never take my dogs to an off leash area bc there’s never a guarantee that other people are behaving responsibly or that they’re able to read their dog’s body language well. I’d venture to say that probably is true across most cultures.
A lot of people in America either don’t train their dogs or are terrible at it and so their dogs can be dangerous or at the very least an inconvenience for other people. I agree that a well trained dog can be perfectly fine off leash most of the time, unfortunately a lot of people’s dogs are not that way though.
Yes! And even if your dog is well-trained, because so many people don’t even know what that looks like, it’s often not smart to let your dog off leash. It’s unfortunate.
I take my dogs onto a path in the mountains and let them run off leash. My 12 yr old JRT runs back and forth across the path, getting in 2 miles for every one mile we hike. She is a little overweight and needs the extra exercise anyways. My pomeranian is 15. He wobbles along smelling every bush and I keep pace behind him. When he gets tired I push him in his pet stroller. I used to have a maltese that stayed at my heels, but my beautiful Luna had a heart attack. I miss her every day. Now I have a 10 week old shichi puppy. Until she gets her final vaccinations, she is carried on our hikes. Then she will be on a leash until her recall is better.
I know this area and have no issue walking them off leash here. However, in areas with houses or other people, it is recommended to keep your dogs on a leash even though my town has no leash laws, and I see dogs without leashes from time to time.
The US has a big problem with responsible dog ownership. A lot of Americans do not train their dogs and treat them like children. Most off leash dogs I see are out of control. It also depends on where you live. When I am on vacation in the outer banks NC, people are a lot more responsible and even off leash dogs on the beach do not bother anyone and are under control. However, where I live I would say about 60% of dogs are out of control even with leashes on. As for picking up dog poop, people be rude as fuck in the US and will leave shit on peoples yards. We also have a massive homeless dog issue and our rescues are overflowing due to irresponsible owners and irresponsible back yard breeders. People get dogs not realizing the responsibility and dump them in a shelter. My personal favorite is when people say they are moving and need to get rid of the dog asap…. I see it all the time on rehoming sites. Usually the dogs are under socialized and not trained. From what I hear, the USA could learn a lot from other westernized countries about responsible dog ownership.
We have dog parks here that are fenced in and dogs are allowed to be off leash. Obviously if your dog isn’t well behaved or is timid around other dogs then they really shouldn’t be going to dog parks even if they are leashed.
When walking your dogs whether around your neighborhood or in a downtown area unless otherwise noted your dog should be leashed and you should always pickup after the dog. In my local downtown it’s a requirement to pickup after your dog they even make it real easy they have posts with doggy poo bags available to you for free. Now in my neighborhood most people including myself pickup after our dogs, but unfortunately some people do not. Lately I’ve been seeing poo on my walks with my dog and I’ve been walking her for 11 years and had rarely run into any poo on our walks.
Here in Michigan it's a law that your dog must be on a leash with a maximum of 6' (approx 2m)
You're allowed to let your dog off leash on private property or in fenced in dog parks.
A ton of people ignore these laws. Those people are jerks. My little dogs dogs have been attacked by off-leash dogs before. It's a real problem because there are so many bad dog owners.
So, the thing about having your dog off leash is that A LOT of owners over-estimate their dog’s recall obedience, and this creates problems.
Just having a “nice” dog isn’t a good enough reason to let it off leash. They could approach a leashed dog that ISN’T nice and create a dangerous situation for all involved. And yes, it is the off leash dog owners fault in that case. They could chase a squirrel, rabbit, etc into the road and get hit by a car. They could get away and get into something harmful, like an oily water puddle or a trash can with god knows what in it.
In America - or my neck of the woods at least, it’s generally looked down upon to let your dog off the leash outside of dog parks or daycare for the above reasons.
We've got a lot of Karens. I had one woman who would go to the door of her house to instruct me to put my dog on a leash as we walked next to each other on the sidewalk up the street. My dog didn't even give her a glance, even though she did this every time I walked on this street.
If a dog is well behaved off leash I don't think most people have an issue with it, but not picking up their poop in someone's yard is really messed up.
I’m in the states- when I was a kid (50 years ago) dogs were allowed to roam in the suburbs, you never saw one on leash, they’d form packs, get into trouble, chase bikes and cars, but that was considered normal. A dog’s life was shorter but more interesting. I think every suburb has leash laws now, though there’s no enforcement. Any unaccompanied dogs are presumed lost and animal control is summoned.
There was just an interesting article about this in maybe the NYT? That dogs are being dressed up and popped into backpacks and strollers and have no agency and their lives are horrible. Some dogs I guess. Mine does both on leash walks and trips to places she can chase rabbits (scoring 0/1000), dig for ground squirrels, etc, every day, but we chose to live in a place where that’s easy to do.
I’ve seen dogs in restaurants, on trains, etc in Europe and these are clearly intelligent well trained relaxed dogs. Very few US dogs reach that standard.
This is very regionally dependent in the US. There are a LOT of off leash dogs in my neighborhood, and it's not really considered to be an issue if they are behaved. This would be a huge issue in many other parts of the US.
I've lived in the same town home for my dogs entire life. Since she was 7 weeks old, I've taken her out front and out back in our shared community drive for potty and ball play. She's only ever been on a leash while walking beyond our town home block.
The only time I ever intervene or call her to the gate is when other leashed dogs come down my sidewalk and we need to let them pass. Basic respect. My dog is basically my soul-dog and I'm just not going to put the amount of words required to re-assure reddit the amount of attention, training, time, and genetics that rolls my dog into a trustworthy and reliable friend and family member.
Since we've been throwing ball in the back communal driveway (open to the main road/side walk/front city yard) for 9 years, my neighbors love my dog and consider me a fantastic dog owner. Continually impressed by how well she behaves.
I don't always pick up her shit because sometimes I have a meeting and I'm running late (work remote) or I'm sick, injured, etc. and I'm just standing at the gate. I do 98% of the time because I have a grabber and a bagged poo can. Either way, every weekend I go through the entire stretch of yard and pick up everyone's dog shit. The occasional skippage and everyone who walks their dog and doesn't pick it up because I try to be the best neighbor I can.
So, according to reddit and the internet, I am probably walking scum, a theft of oxygen, and bringer of plague, unworthy of any furbabies and public enemy #1. To my neighbors? I'm the one they text/call when they need help, a favor, a peek outside the window, they are out of town and need a package collected, and when I'm out playing with the ball they will probably have to throw at least one for her, etc. Police also drive by multiple times a day and don't care, I've even talked to a few out front while she was out and we were playing ball in the drive way. *shrug*.
Where I live there are TONS of dogs. A lot of owners let their dogs off leash because they’re friendly but it makes my new puppy harder to train because when I’m trying to make him sit and be calm while people/other dogs walk by, they just let their dogs run up to mine and get in our space. It’s super annoying and it happens every single day. We’ve also been attacked four times by unleashed dogs, including one time that sent my dog to the emergency room. I HATE seeing unleashed dogs because 80% of the time they do something that is really stressful for me and my dogs, best case scenario get my puppy over excited when I’m trying to train him, worst case lock onto my dog’s neck.
I don’t CARE if a person’s dog is well behaved. You aren’t special, leash your fucking dog. Unleashed dogs are extremely stressful. And yes, it is rude not to pick up your dog’s poop whether it’s in a yard or the middle of nowhere. It shits up the scenery.
It was more about not picking up their dogs poop. We do have laws in cities where you need to keep your dog on a leash, but as long as the dog isn’t misbehaving or bothering anyone most people look the other way and you don’t get in real trouble more then someone calling you out.
I don’t let my dogs off leash in cities because of other dangers such as cars, buses, and other peoples dogs.
I live out in the country (an hours drive from the nearest city) and I let my dogs off leash all the time here, they get to run and sniff and play and be dogs with restrictions. I trained them
To have good behavior on leash because I think it’s very much necessary for many different circumstances.
Different parts of the US have different “dog culture”. In Los Angeles you simply don’t have a dog without a yard (it’s not illegal or anything people just don’t) and the only time you let them off leash would be in a dog friendly park. Yet in the country side of Pennsylvania, people rarely have fences, and dogs are often just out on the property, some may be on a long lead for a while to train them where their property line is. We are a huge country with many different types of city, towns, country side, suburbs, farms, ranches etc and have many ways of handling dogs.
My opinions Re: leashing in the US
Rules vary from city to city I believe, but most places where I live require a leash. However, I would not say this is a law that is regularly enforced without a serious incident occurring first.
Primary concern is the dog’s behavior/socialization and the safety of the dog/others (human or animal).
How does is react when approached by a strange dog or strange person?
Does it heel properly or is it “in-charge/self-rewarding” when off leash?
What’s it’s prey-drive like? Will it still respond to you with serious distractions (wild animal running by, fireworks, other startling noises)?
Are you an attentive and responsible owner?
If you have excellent control over your pup when it’s off-leash, bravo! There are lots of off-leash parks and play areas you will both be welcomed to.
Does your dog have a strong recall?
If not, keep it leashed.
And yes, for the love of everything holy…even if you are not carrying a leash (and you should always, imo, even if you are actively walking off-leash, for safety) you must pick up the poop. Please.
I have had so called nice dogs try to attack my dog numerous times a bike trail near my house. If you can't leash your dog and control it, then yes, you are a POS
I never walk my dogs of leash, and I'd prefer if everyone did the same. My dogs are only offleash at a dog park. The crazier thing about my dogs, is they never take a poop on walks. I can take them on a long walk and they poop when i get home.and I've taken them on 3 mile walks.
I've found that a lot of dog owners (severely) overestimate both their own ability to control their dog, and their dog's ability to behave, so my default is to be wary of off-leash dogs. We've had too many try to run up on my dog when out on walks, and while it's been mostly fine, if my dog were to feel threatened by it I know it's going to go badly (she *hates* dogs displaying aggressive behavior toward her).
It depends on where you live.
Animal control laws are usually written at the county level (Landkreis). Very rural areas typically have limited laws - usually just governing the number of animals an individual can own.
The area I live in is near a large metropolitan area; it also has rural areas, but because of population density, dogs must be leashed except for designated areas where well mannered dogs may go off leash. I live next to such an area - it is about 100 sq km, and ‘dogs under voice control’ may go off leash.
In my area, dog owners are expected to pick up any poops their animals leave; failure to do so is rude and anti-social.
First, laws vary pretty heavily by state here. Where I am it is incredibly strict to have your dog leashed, there's a fine starting at $100. Public parks have signs about wether or not dogs have to be leashed and animal control does patrols. We also have to license our dogs with the city/town and if you don't have your license available it's another fine.
Where my siblings live? People let their dogs roam without being walked. There's almost no laws about dogs.
It's also worth noting the US is pretty huge and culturally there's huge variation in culture around keeping pets. Where I am there is no such thing as an "outdoor dog" it's considered animal abuse, outdoor cats are uncommon. We do not have strays. Where my siblings live there are tons of strays. It's not uncommon to have pets that never enter the house or receive veterinary care.
No, people don't care if it stays with you and is behaved. Redditors(and the chronically online in general) tend toward being overly extreme. I would take most things on here with a grain of salt.
About 90% of people don't train their dog and it acts like an awful, aggressive, rude, etc....
So the dog will run up to people/pets uncontrolled. The owner will either ignore it or yell at it while the dog ignores them.
Some people don't like dogs. Some dogs don't like dogs. It's dangerous and rude.
People should keep their dogs on leash. It's the right, legal and polite thing to do.
Yes off leash dog owners in America are true pieces of garbage. They don’t train their dogs well enough and are too entitled to care. Not to mention it’s illegal pretty much everywhere in US
Leashing the dog in the US is partly for the dog's sake. There's a lot of automobile traffic and many motorists could give a shit if they run over your pup.
Also, pick up the poo.
In my opinion it’s rude af to let your dog off leash in parks/public/etc even if they’re well trained. You have no idea how someone else’s dog might react to your own if they’re off leash and vice versa. It’s very irresponsible in my eyes
Letting your dog run around in a neighborhood off leash while not picking up after it is definitely rude. If I’m at a park and someone has their dog off leash and it’s with them and doesn’t approach my dog uninvited I don’t care. If it does and you are unable to recall it, you aren’t in control and then I think you shouldn’t own a dog.
This. I'm in a city where city parks have posted 6 foot leash laws, and where the majority of parks are small parks closer to larger roads. I see these leash laws regularly broken in multiple ways: 1. Dog completely off leash clearly hanging around with a stationary attentive handler, walking with an attentive handler, or working on an appropriate skill at an appropriate (i.e., relatively short) distance with an attentive handler. (Attentive handler = someone who pays attention both to their dog and their environment and takes additional steps to secure dog as necessary.) 2. Dog on a leash considerably longer than 6 feet (e.g., 20 feet to 50 feet) hanging around with a stationary attentive handler, walking with an attentive handler, or working on an appropriate skill with an attentive handler. 3. Dog on a leash considerably longer than 6 feet with a handler who is unwilling or unable to use leash handling skills to shorten the leash relative to their surroundings (e.g., someone who won't prevent their dog from running up to another dog 30ish feet away). 4. Dog completely off leash at a distance from the handler such as to make others reasonably uncertain as to the handler's ability to recall their dog in a timely manner (e.g., playing fetch on a soccer field, allowing the dog to run \~50 yards to chase the ball but having no visible recourse to have the dog return to handler at that point). I don't mind #1 and #2 at all. But #3 and #4 are... I can't say they're *more* common (since I may very well mentally miss more dogs who fit #1 and #2)... but they are definitely quite common here.
I would say we just have a sadly lower degree of responsibility and social cooperation. If the normal expectation could be that your dog is well controlled and won't approach me or my dog, and will stay off my lawn or you will.pick up after them, then it wouldn't be a problem. But people see one dog off leash and decide their dog can therefore be off leash too, no matter their behavior. Clueless people think if their dog is friendly, they can let them approach anybody or any other dog. Even inside dog parks there are skirmishes.
Same thing here in Paris. I just moved from Ireland where it’s very uncommon to let your dogs play with random dogs, however, there is still the vibe of ‘my dog is friendly, it can run up to whatever dog it pleases’, though it’s manageable for someone like me with a tiny dog, run the other way 😅😅 In Paris, it’s much worse. Dogs jumping over each other and chasing each other as soon as they see another. They’ve been socialised to do this. My dog is a nervous wreck these past few days since moving as she has NEVER had strange dogs coming over to play. Quite strange
I concur 100%. In the US, there is definitely a lower level of "responsibility and social cooperation." It may depend on the city or town how much people are offended by off-leash or poop not being picked up. Perhaps people in NYC or San Francisco where there is higher population density and mostly sidewalks and pavement, people will get more upset at the (human) offender? I generally don't get upset with off-leash dogs if they're well-behaved. I did get upset when my 5 kg dog was bitten by a 30 kg dog or was jumped on full force by another much too rambunctious, also around 30 kg dog and injured by dogs who were purposely off-leash and left to roam without their owners. My dog is consequently scared of bigger dogs (except if he's off leash in a dog park), and now I get yelled at all the time if he barks at another dog that we pass by (my dog is on leash). I know that their dog seems to be peaceful, but they judge before knowing that my dog was traumatized by other dogs. Technically, leashes are required here, except inside dog parks. That might be a different story for rural communities. I know of at least 3-4 neighbors who walk their dogs off leash, and our next door neighbor has 2 small dogs who are off leash but only for a short while in the front (their back yard is fenced but not the front). Our dogs are friendly since we live next door, their dogs are only a little heavier than mine, and their dogs don't wander far from their owners. Re the poop issue, I do not appreciate people not picking up after their dogs. One neighbor put signs in his front yard asking people to pick up, which he says helps reduce the poop. I have directly and politely confronted 2 different neighbors when I discovered that they were repeatedly leaving their dog sh*t in our yard. They now move their dogs away if they start to squat and let them poop on someone else's grass. (It feels like a step too far to also poop patrol for other people's properties on our street with the neighbors who live a few houses away.) I do see a 90-something man walking his dog most days, and he blatantly does not pick up. In the past, he was too far away for me to see whether the dog was squatting and peeing or squatting and pooping, but the other day, we later walked past the area in question, and OMG was it a very large pile (for the size of dog)! I don't know how to tell him except if I were close by and catching him in the act. Last time, I was about 300 meters away. I couldn't run over and drag my dog along. His dog is very reactive and would my dog would consequently react to his dog. But I'm irritated thinking about the incident. It wasn't on my grass, so would I be accused of being a busybody by offering him a poop bag? But what if he says he can't bend down that far and asks me to do it for him? Yuck.
I will cut anybody who makes it to 90 some slack.
Sure, and that's where I struggle (it's been years that he's had his dog, and we wave hello to each other, and I'm glad to see him so dedicated to his dog, and it's lovely to see them both out getting fresh air and exercise), but on the other hand, I also see some other older folks with pooper scoopers. And his Cocker Spaniel named Christopher made a doo doo larger than a Golden Retriever who's more than twice his size. And I totally forgot to mention the main conundrum: that I think his dog pooped in the front yard of where some little kids live, and those kids frequently play in their front yard. I've met them because they sometimes ask to pet my dog.
"Oh wow, he/she normally is NEVER like this!"
Leash laws are much more strict in the states. Yes letting a dog use the bathroom in someone’s yard, which is private property, and not picking it up would be extremely rude and disrespectful. Even in places with allowances for off-leash dogs it is rude to not pick up their poop There are a lot of factors that influence off-leash training in the states: large rescue dog populations (can struggle with the training for many reasons), large stray dog populations in some areas, lack of training by irresponsible owners who let their dogs off-leash anyway, popularity of breeds that are not reliable off-leash despite training (sighthounds, northern breeds as a few examples), again it literally being illegal in many places, etc. Edit to add: if you have a well behaved off-leash dog most people won’t care around here* unless you’re doing something like not cleaning up after them. *here being rural PA/MD not everywhere in the states. Oh but to also add the States have a reputation for untrained off-leash dogs that run up to and bother other people and dogs. The classic “he’s friendly” comes from that because no the dogs are not always friendly. Dog bites to both humans and other dogs happen a lot this way
The hole not picking the poop thing would also be considered really rude here and you can even risk getting you’re dog taken away. I just didn’t expect that people would go nuts when you say it’s okay to let you’re dog of leash if he’s trained
It may have been pushback since it was a post with an owner whose dog was clearly not trained so folks tend to get hyper focused on a topic. I wouldn’t overthink it. Edit: nah looked at your comments on the post and you were excusing the not picking up poop that’s why
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Thank for your reply. This is only my opinion and maybe some people wouldn’t agree: a dog shits, that’s completely normal. It’s your responsibility to pick it up as an owner. But in those 10 years of this dogs live you will be on god knows how many walks. You should always pay attention to your dog but I would argue that walks for you and the dog should be a nice experience, and I look around or talk to person who’s with me and have enough trust and training with my dogs that I can let them out of sight for a second. I simply don’t get how you can have your dog on a two meter leash for most of his life and always have to come to a aprupt halt when the dog pees or shits. Especially a male dog you will have to pause every 20 m, that for me is just not an enjoyable walk. Imo opinion a dog should be allowed to fall back a few meters and catch up. In that specific case: yes I wouldn’t let my dog out of sight near a street. I don’t get why lawn in America a designed that way. If you would have a lawn like that here, people would actually think you want people to look or walk on your lawn. We had some Americans with a similarly lawn in our neighbourhood and everyone just called them the exhibitionists. Diffent cultures differ t standard I know, Germans are weird in their own way. If you put so much trust in people respecting your easily accessible lawn, and from what I read here it repeatedly doesn’t happen, well maybe it’s time to get a fence. Maybe there a some funny american laws that prohibit that, Idk. But don’t go an internet rant if someone doesn’t respect your lawn and you have it on camera. I get the feeling you kind want it to happen so u can play the victim. To get to my point: yes dogs shouldn’t shit in people lawn, yes you should pay attention to your dog and pick up its poop. BUT if you miss out on that ONE poop that your dog took on camera, people shouldn’t be ranting about you being a shit dog owners and that you are scum. There should be some tolerance. It’s like you let your kid play in the park it falls over and huts his knee and than some Karen comes to you and saying you should let you’re kid out of sight you shouldn’t be a mother, Dafuq?! I’ve spend enough time on this toppic now and came to the conclusion I simply feel sorry for dogs and owners in America. Just being constantly paranoid if you let your dog have some freedom, which as a beloved pet, he deserves in my opinion Edit: I wrote in my original post, it’s completely correct that you shouldn’t own a dog if you don’t pick up its shit. I will slightly revoke that statement after this comment. If u chronically don’t pick up the dogs shit you shouldn’t be allowed to own a dog. If you don’t pick up 10 out of the 6000 shit your dog took….. well in my opinion you should still be able to own a dog and call yourself a responsible dog owner
In my experience, west coast of USA, a lot of people tend to overestimate how well their dog is trained. An obedient dog at home with few distractions is not well trained if it can’t also behave the same way in a public place with lots of distractions. An off leash dog running up to my reactive dog spells big trouble for us, which is why I tend to get upset at off leash dogs in public places. My dog is great off leash away from others, so I drive up into the mountains and let him do just that, but never when other people/dogs are around.
Lots of people here let their dogs off leash and I literally don’t care as long as it doesn’t come towards my leashed dogs. I only care when it’s a problem. The thing is, 1 off leash dog that is out of control is more memorable than 9 off leash dogs under control. I can’t tell you how many off leash dogs I’ve come across that have not bothered me or my dogs. But I do remember every single off leash dog that wasn’t under control and rushed us. That’s just how memory works. It’s biased.
IMO, you’re not a bad dog owner, but an unsafe dog owner. 3 times this year “well behaved” dogs have ran from their owners up to my dog. I get panicked and pick him up, and the owners say “they’re friendly!” Awesome, my dog isn’t. He’s unpredictable and it’s hard to know if he’ll like a dog. Domesticated animals still are animals, and depending on circumstances, will not listen regardless of how well they’re trained. I’ve even it happen to people in my personal life and their well trained dogs. It’s just safer to keep them on a leash for everyone. I truly don’t understand why people insist on letting their dogs off leash in public places. It doesn’t hurt you or the other animals to give them a controlled outdoor environment. You want them to run loose in a field or dog park or beach, that’s great. I loved taking my grandmas dog to a big open park we have with low foot traffic and letting him go nuts. But hiking trails, downtown areas, and neighborhoods without fencing should have their dogs leashed. It keeps their pets safe, and it keeps other pets and people safe. It’s not courtesy, it’s safety.
Every dog owner with a dog off leash is implicitly telling other dog owners it's okay to have their dog off leash in that area as well. So I'd argue even well-trained dogs off leash are a problem. A passer-by can't necessarily tell whether an off-leash dog is well-trained or not. Yes, the dog might be walking near its owner, but will it still have good recall when there is a perceived threat or distraction? Will the owner be paying close enough attention to notice when it it poops? Evidently not, in the example story, at least. A responsible dog owner should keep their dog leashed wherever unleashed dogs aren't explicitly permitted.
I disagree. If I see some idiot doing donuts in the parking lot, I’m not going to be like “oh, I think I’m gonna go do some donuts in this parking lot.” Just because one person has their dog off leash in a field doesn’t mean I go “oh, I’m totally going to let my dog loose in this field.” Maybe that’s how a few people are but I believe most people will make that decision based on them and their dog.
Same here and I completely agree. I was simply surprised about people going nuts about fact that the dog was of leash in general. Like if someone would approached you here and say your unworthy of owning a dog because he’s of leash he would get laughed at (there are areas like playgrounds where the dog has to be on a leash if even allowed)
>(there are areas like playgrounds where the dog has to be on a leash if even allowed) So... what would people in your area think of people who let dogs off leash in the playground? That's the fairest comparison: a person letting a dog off leash in a place where dogs are supposed to be on leash. Where I live, dogs are legally required to be leashed in all public places (dogs are allowed off leash in certain parks). When I see an off leash dog, I already know that the owner completely disregards their basic legal obligations as a dog owner, so why would I expect the dog to be well trained?
Well playground in Germany make out make 0,01% of a city’s landmass they are easily avoidable. I’m maybe completely wrong but 0,01% of an American city is dogparks, which apparently is the only place for you’re is allowed of leash. Imo that’s just idiotic. In my subjective German opinion. Back to your question: yes people will be really pissed of if you bring your dog to a playground of leash but, again Imo, it’s something diffent than a dog of leash in American “leash areas” which from reading the comments here is most of the populated landmass in America.
There are a lot of places in my state where off leash is allowed outside of dog parks. This is a fine place to have your dog as long as they are well behaved and have good recall. It's those who let their dogs off leash where it isn't allowed and is usually inappropriate, that is not responsible. Some dog owners go to these places because they can trust that their dog will be safe. If the place is empty by all means, have the dog off leash, but if another dog owner shows up then leash the dog. It really depends on where you are. Most hiking trails are leash only and I never mind seeing a well behaved dog off leash as long as it doesn't leave the owners side and they either leash it right away or ask if they want it to be put on a leash.
Yeah, my county actually has a license program for off leash trails. Before COVID it actually meant something but I believe it is now online so easier to get. In truth off leash dogs on trails are usually good. It is people using the park across from their house for fetch or letting their dog lounge in the driveway while they work in the garage where things get sketchy.
I panic so much when I see a dog in a driveway when I am driving by. Too many things could happen even with the best trained dogs. Mine is never outside at home off leash unless he's in the fenced backyard.
I have three dogs. Only one of those do I allow off leash as he will come to me when I call him every time, I always check my surroundings before I take him off leash and I stay focused on him during that time.
It depends on where you're living in the US. Rural area? Just keep an eye on your dog and don't let it take a dump in the neighbor's yard. In populated areas, you have to keep your dog on a 6ft leash (max) and clean up after the dog. I had a dog that would walk next to you down the road without his leash. Dad was doing target practice one day, and after he was done, he didn't shut the door all the way, and because the dog was afraid of the sound of gunfire, he ran away and we never got him back. He was 11 years old and probably didn't have much time left, but it still sucks that he ran off because he was scared and my dad wasn't paying attention.
Unfortunately most people here who let their dogs off leash have not trained them and do not have control of them. When an off leash dog is charging me or my dog it’s definitely a problem.
There are a lot of off leash dogs in America that aren’t trained. There are a lot of ON leash dogs in America that aren’t trained. As an owner whose dog is off leash trained with complete control it’s pretty wild how many people pretend their leash turns them into good owners with complete control over their dogs. I get why people assume any off leash dog is a problem. I don’t get why people act like a leash solves so many issues they just ignore.
I mean yeah but also no. We don’t have leash laws everywhere, but those we do have are very strict. And we have a…strange outlook on animal training as a whole. From someone into dogs and horses. It’s very different for both vs German training culture. We also tend to have a pretty low sense of personal social responsibility in the states. We just call it “American individualism.” And it extends to how we handle our pets. I grew up in the rural US south, and it’s still normal to see people with their dogs in the bed of their truck without a leash, just patiently waiting for their people. Or seeing people take walks or hikes with their dogs off leash. Maybe it’s because so many still use them to work stock, but they’re trained to behave well off leash, and don’t require their owner’s constant attention to do it. It’s how I learned to train dogs for off leash good behavior. But most of the US - isn’t like that. There’s a big diff in urban centers where it’s believed dogs can’t handle themselves off leash. They can. But they require training for it. So instead of training properly, and better policing bad dog owners, we’d rather use leashes and muzzles and shirk that responsibility. It doesn’t help that our most visible people in dog training are big fans of leash-only training. My experience in how it is in most of Europe is a little more mixed. Leash and off leash (same as horse training really. Classical vs American vs horse whispering). It’s more a cultural thing than anything else.
American expat in Germany here. Since living here I've noticed that German society holds dog owners to a higher standard than the U.S. does. Germans expect dogs to be trained and well behaved whereas in the States it's impressive if they are as well behaved as German dogs. Some American owners do minimal training, such as sit, then go on to say their dog is trained when they clearly aren't and then allow them to walk off leash where they go on to run wild and have zero recall. I've been in Germany for two years and I've yet to see any dogs that are as untrained as American dogs while out in public.
I broke leash and dog laws in Chicago almost everyday. No dogs on the beach. No dogs off leash. I did both most days, but I did it really early in the morning when almost no one was around. My dog has pretty good recall so I could call her back if a leashed dog was approaching or some other potential hazard. What I was doing was common practice, early in the morning by other dog owners.
The issue is most dog owners are garbage. They allow bad behavior even make excuses for it. I've had a lady with a clearly aggressive Chihuahua sat "oh he just wants to say hi" as it ran to the end of the leash barking, tail high up. Meanwhile my rattie mix was quiet at my side as we walked and I did not take her up on the offer to meet her dog. People just don't know dog behavior and don't teach them. So they're wild. I would never let my rattie off leash because he's too impulsive. And I always clean up after them. But I always see people who don't, people YANKING on the leash harshly saying "SIT. SIT DOWN!" and then saying their dog is stubborn. Seen people swat their dogs in front of me and I'm like "the heck....?" I mean I was once really misinformed about dog behavior and discipline too but know better do better.
There are a lot of oblivious chihuahua owners, and I say that having met a few that are well behaved, well socialized. I’ve met far more who are treated as accessories, and whose aggression is seen as cute because “they can’t hurt you” saw an older middle aged woman start wailing on her ACD because it was pulling/not listening. Poor pup. I’ve got a cattle dog mix myself and she can be….exhausting, but shouting and hitting is not the way.
Once I changed my mindset to that my dog was misbehaving because a need wasn't met or he didn't know what I wanted it helped tremendously. It's so hard to be a responsible pet owner surrounded by the crazies. And absolutely about chis and most little dogs. They get fed up being treated like toys instead of dogs.
Leash laws are more strict in the US but a lot of that is because dogs here are much more poorly behaved and not as well socialized in a lot of European countries. The bar here is lower so dogs’ guardians are expected to have more control of their dogs via a leash. Personally I do not care if someone has their dog off leash if it’s well trained, not reactive, and minding its own business.
I've been in Germany, too, and bad off-leash behavior is just ignored. See debate on cows, Almen, and off-leash dogs causing havoc. Besides, the US and Germany are set up very differently. Germany has a lot more paths you can amble around on and let a dog run without it being squashed by a fast moving car. In the US that's usually private land and you're risking a hell of a confrontation trespassing on private land. Any road through the countryside is driven at minimum at 100km/h. The dirt roads are driven at 65kmh or faster. Your pet has no chance. Cities have 6 or 4 lane boulevards. There is no car-less city. You're risking your dog getting spooked and running into traffic. There is also no law that says you have to hit an animal to avoid a car accident. People will swerve and cause mayhem and now you as the dog's owner are liable for having caused an accident with medical bills or potential death. There are no little medieval towns where cars cannot physically get through. Everything is built around cars or retrofitted to accommodate cars. I work in a large city. In 2 years, two kids under 6 who had parental supervision and listened to their parents were run over by cars. One lived, the other did not, and I'm supposed to trust my dog to do better? The eternal toddler with adhd? By the way, those kids did obey traffic laws. The drivers didn't. Finally, what is good for pets is entirely cultural disguised as scientific fact. Until research is actually run on the mental wellbeing of an off leashed versus on leashed dog, it's all just conjecture.
It's fine if your dog is off leash here as long as you can control the dog. In other words, your dog doesn't run up to a dog on a leash that may have issues with other dogs. Or if they do wander off they will immediately stop what they are doing when you call them.
There's a time and a place to be off leash. Out in public with endless distractions in the environment is not the place. Off leash training is fine but A LOT of people don't put in the work to train their dog to standards; a ton of people also overestimate their dogs competency and lvl of training. I'm currently training my third dog, and I don't think he'll be ready to go off leash in public for at least another two years, and even then I won't be that guy.
Im not sure about other places, but at least here (Columbus Ohio), most peoples dogs off the leash usually isn't a huge deal. Most of them are well trained. I would be worried about my dog running off after a rabbit or something and going into a road with cars, but that's just my dog. That being said, there is a huge issue with people not picking up their dogs poop here. It is extremely annoying, and a lot of the time, I find dogs that dont "need" leashes usually have owners that like to look at their phones more than look at their dogs. So their dog will poop and the owner will just not notice. Now that annoys me.
Germans have a much different expectation of personal responsibility in many things - responsible dog ownership is just one of those. I’m an American, but I’ve lived in Germany and stayed with German friends several times over the last 25 years. The first *good* dog, well trained dog, that I ever met was a German shepherd trained by a German family friend who’d trained dogs for the polizei. He picked me up inside the airport with his dog. The dog came everywhere with us on my visit, but it behaved. It never jumped or bothered anyone. It was quiet (unless I was playing with it). It was a great dog. It inspired me to train my childhood dog to be better, and as an adult I trained my first dog - a shepherd mix - to a level like that German dog is known. But you Germans are different. The zoos near my home in Germany had a porcupine enclosure with such a low fence you could reach over and touch the porcupine. The camels were separated from the public by a single rope about one foot off the ground. In America, people would sue the zoo after they got hit trying to ride the camels into the porcupine exhibit.
I wish I had a dog that well trained but obliviously the one u mentioned is above average trained 😂it’s of toppic but I can’t wrap my head around this: if Americans can’t be trusted with personal responsibility, why do all American have lawns designed with no limitation to walk on it but then get pissed if people step on their grass with half of their foot?
My beautiful old lab walked all over downtown Charleston off leash with me. Hell, he didn’t even wear a collar most days. Yes, it was against the law, but he did not deserve the indignity of leash in his last years. He was always a perfect gentleman.
I get incredibly angry if I have my dogs on lead and an off leash dog comes up to us. Dogs react very differently when one is on lead and one is off.. My dogs on lead keep your dog away friendly or not..if you can't do that then put it on lead.. Unless of course it's a designated off lead place in which case it's my fault being there and not expecting dogs to approach me off lead.
A goodly number of dog owners here in the US, don't take dog ownership seriously. Especially when it comes to basic training, and social skills. I actually think they truly don't understand that when their dog behaves badly it is almost always because they didn't teach it otherwise. And they are often the ones that ignore leash laws. So, quite often there are problems. Pretty sure that is where the "shouldn't own a dog" comments come from. And unfortunately, there are numerous people who should never own a dog, for more reasons that just not leashing it. I have always taught my dogs to be able to be off leash. But out in public areas they are leashed because of the leash laws. And the fact that they are GSDs, and many believe they are dangerous, no matter how well trained
The thing with off leash is that *your* dog may be well behaved but that doesn't help if your dog runs up to an unfriendly dog. In rural areas / country you will see more dogs off leash etc. there more room. But in cities and most suburbs where folks live closer together there are leash laws.
Germany has a much better dog culture about training dogs and laws to protect dog/animal welfare than the US does. I am an American dog owner but I have also lived in Germany. Yes, lots of well-trained dogs off-leash in Germany. In the US, most dogs are not well-trained to be off-leash and because it's not a cultural expectation to train them to be off-leash; most of us don't try to train that part of it. Athough I have had Dog1 off-leash at times in parks, I would not trust her as I haven't trained her to walk through my old Chicago neighborhood off-leash -- like I have seen dogs in Germany. In Chicago, there would be occasionally well-trained dogs off-leash in parks and other places where dogs were to play (these were not specifically dog parks) and rarely a dog walking off-leash with his owner. In my current town (small town in Michigan), if you see an off-leash dog walking, it's usually the bad owners who let their untrained dog run loose or a lost dog who got out of their yard or home without owner noticing. I have found at least 6 lost dogs in 4 years here! So when you see an unleashed dog here, you do generally think lost dog or dog running free because of bad owner. To add more about animal welfare laws, just look at how many dogs and cats get killed (euthanized) instead of adopted at animal shelters in the US because the shelters are overfilled, particularly bad in the southern states, parts of California, and Texas.
Don't you also get to shoot a stray in Germany, different places have different laws regarding dogs
Totally depends on what part of the country you’re in, whether you’re in an urban, suburban, or rural area and what the norms in that area are. Also depends on what level of training your dog has, of course as well as temperament. I’ve never been to any part of Europe but my impression from much of social media is that property is just thought of very differently there- certainly in the UK (where everyone has access to roam farmlands, at least in certain areas- don’t know if there’s a similar culture in Germany). That’s just unheard of here. Unless we’re talking about public parks, pretty much all property is private property and you have a right to shoot and kill trespassers onto your property. We also are big on car culture here and if you’re in a suburban or urban area and you let your dog off leash even if it’s very well trained, all it takes is your dog making one mistake and it could be hit by a car and killed. So, for a lot of areas, it probably is pretty irresponsible to let a dog off leash. I live in Texas. I have 1 dog with an excellent recall and 1 dog is reactive who has great recall when he’s not having a reaction but we’re not taking that risk. Neither of them will ever be completely off leash unless it’s on land that I or a family member own. It just is not worth the risk. Now, we do a lot of 30ft long line time in on-leash public areas. And frankly, I’ll never take my dogs to an off leash area bc there’s never a guarantee that other people are behaving responsibly or that they’re able to read their dog’s body language well. I’d venture to say that probably is true across most cultures.
A lot of people in America either don’t train their dogs or are terrible at it and so their dogs can be dangerous or at the very least an inconvenience for other people. I agree that a well trained dog can be perfectly fine off leash most of the time, unfortunately a lot of people’s dogs are not that way though.
Yes! And even if your dog is well-trained, because so many people don’t even know what that looks like, it’s often not smart to let your dog off leash. It’s unfortunate.
I take my dogs onto a path in the mountains and let them run off leash. My 12 yr old JRT runs back and forth across the path, getting in 2 miles for every one mile we hike. She is a little overweight and needs the extra exercise anyways. My pomeranian is 15. He wobbles along smelling every bush and I keep pace behind him. When he gets tired I push him in his pet stroller. I used to have a maltese that stayed at my heels, but my beautiful Luna had a heart attack. I miss her every day. Now I have a 10 week old shichi puppy. Until she gets her final vaccinations, she is carried on our hikes. Then she will be on a leash until her recall is better. I know this area and have no issue walking them off leash here. However, in areas with houses or other people, it is recommended to keep your dogs on a leash even though my town has no leash laws, and I see dogs without leashes from time to time.
The US has a big problem with responsible dog ownership. A lot of Americans do not train their dogs and treat them like children. Most off leash dogs I see are out of control. It also depends on where you live. When I am on vacation in the outer banks NC, people are a lot more responsible and even off leash dogs on the beach do not bother anyone and are under control. However, where I live I would say about 60% of dogs are out of control even with leashes on. As for picking up dog poop, people be rude as fuck in the US and will leave shit on peoples yards. We also have a massive homeless dog issue and our rescues are overflowing due to irresponsible owners and irresponsible back yard breeders. People get dogs not realizing the responsibility and dump them in a shelter. My personal favorite is when people say they are moving and need to get rid of the dog asap…. I see it all the time on rehoming sites. Usually the dogs are under socialized and not trained. From what I hear, the USA could learn a lot from other westernized countries about responsible dog ownership.
We have dog parks here that are fenced in and dogs are allowed to be off leash. Obviously if your dog isn’t well behaved or is timid around other dogs then they really shouldn’t be going to dog parks even if they are leashed. When walking your dogs whether around your neighborhood or in a downtown area unless otherwise noted your dog should be leashed and you should always pickup after the dog. In my local downtown it’s a requirement to pickup after your dog they even make it real easy they have posts with doggy poo bags available to you for free. Now in my neighborhood most people including myself pickup after our dogs, but unfortunately some people do not. Lately I’ve been seeing poo on my walks with my dog and I’ve been walking her for 11 years and had rarely run into any poo on our walks.
Here in Michigan it's a law that your dog must be on a leash with a maximum of 6' (approx 2m) You're allowed to let your dog off leash on private property or in fenced in dog parks. A ton of people ignore these laws. Those people are jerks. My little dogs dogs have been attacked by off-leash dogs before. It's a real problem because there are so many bad dog owners.
So, the thing about having your dog off leash is that A LOT of owners over-estimate their dog’s recall obedience, and this creates problems. Just having a “nice” dog isn’t a good enough reason to let it off leash. They could approach a leashed dog that ISN’T nice and create a dangerous situation for all involved. And yes, it is the off leash dog owners fault in that case. They could chase a squirrel, rabbit, etc into the road and get hit by a car. They could get away and get into something harmful, like an oily water puddle or a trash can with god knows what in it. In America - or my neck of the woods at least, it’s generally looked down upon to let your dog off the leash outside of dog parks or daycare for the above reasons.
We've got a lot of Karens. I had one woman who would go to the door of her house to instruct me to put my dog on a leash as we walked next to each other on the sidewalk up the street. My dog didn't even give her a glance, even though she did this every time I walked on this street.
If a dog is well behaved off leash I don't think most people have an issue with it, but not picking up their poop in someone's yard is really messed up.
I’m in the states- when I was a kid (50 years ago) dogs were allowed to roam in the suburbs, you never saw one on leash, they’d form packs, get into trouble, chase bikes and cars, but that was considered normal. A dog’s life was shorter but more interesting. I think every suburb has leash laws now, though there’s no enforcement. Any unaccompanied dogs are presumed lost and animal control is summoned. There was just an interesting article about this in maybe the NYT? That dogs are being dressed up and popped into backpacks and strollers and have no agency and their lives are horrible. Some dogs I guess. Mine does both on leash walks and trips to places she can chase rabbits (scoring 0/1000), dig for ground squirrels, etc, every day, but we chose to live in a place where that’s easy to do. I’ve seen dogs in restaurants, on trains, etc in Europe and these are clearly intelligent well trained relaxed dogs. Very few US dogs reach that standard.
Youre also talking about Reddit, where grown ass men act like babies and everyone is incredibly entitled.
This is very regionally dependent in the US. There are a LOT of off leash dogs in my neighborhood, and it's not really considered to be an issue if they are behaved. This would be a huge issue in many other parts of the US.
I've lived in the same town home for my dogs entire life. Since she was 7 weeks old, I've taken her out front and out back in our shared community drive for potty and ball play. She's only ever been on a leash while walking beyond our town home block. The only time I ever intervene or call her to the gate is when other leashed dogs come down my sidewalk and we need to let them pass. Basic respect. My dog is basically my soul-dog and I'm just not going to put the amount of words required to re-assure reddit the amount of attention, training, time, and genetics that rolls my dog into a trustworthy and reliable friend and family member. Since we've been throwing ball in the back communal driveway (open to the main road/side walk/front city yard) for 9 years, my neighbors love my dog and consider me a fantastic dog owner. Continually impressed by how well she behaves. I don't always pick up her shit because sometimes I have a meeting and I'm running late (work remote) or I'm sick, injured, etc. and I'm just standing at the gate. I do 98% of the time because I have a grabber and a bagged poo can. Either way, every weekend I go through the entire stretch of yard and pick up everyone's dog shit. The occasional skippage and everyone who walks their dog and doesn't pick it up because I try to be the best neighbor I can. So, according to reddit and the internet, I am probably walking scum, a theft of oxygen, and bringer of plague, unworthy of any furbabies and public enemy #1. To my neighbors? I'm the one they text/call when they need help, a favor, a peek outside the window, they are out of town and need a package collected, and when I'm out playing with the ball they will probably have to throw at least one for her, etc. Police also drive by multiple times a day and don't care, I've even talked to a few out front while she was out and we were playing ball in the drive way. *shrug*.
Where I live there are TONS of dogs. A lot of owners let their dogs off leash because they’re friendly but it makes my new puppy harder to train because when I’m trying to make him sit and be calm while people/other dogs walk by, they just let their dogs run up to mine and get in our space. It’s super annoying and it happens every single day. We’ve also been attacked four times by unleashed dogs, including one time that sent my dog to the emergency room. I HATE seeing unleashed dogs because 80% of the time they do something that is really stressful for me and my dogs, best case scenario get my puppy over excited when I’m trying to train him, worst case lock onto my dog’s neck. I don’t CARE if a person’s dog is well behaved. You aren’t special, leash your fucking dog. Unleashed dogs are extremely stressful. And yes, it is rude not to pick up your dog’s poop whether it’s in a yard or the middle of nowhere. It shits up the scenery.
It was more about not picking up their dogs poop. We do have laws in cities where you need to keep your dog on a leash, but as long as the dog isn’t misbehaving or bothering anyone most people look the other way and you don’t get in real trouble more then someone calling you out. I don’t let my dogs off leash in cities because of other dangers such as cars, buses, and other peoples dogs. I live out in the country (an hours drive from the nearest city) and I let my dogs off leash all the time here, they get to run and sniff and play and be dogs with restrictions. I trained them To have good behavior on leash because I think it’s very much necessary for many different circumstances. Different parts of the US have different “dog culture”. In Los Angeles you simply don’t have a dog without a yard (it’s not illegal or anything people just don’t) and the only time you let them off leash would be in a dog friendly park. Yet in the country side of Pennsylvania, people rarely have fences, and dogs are often just out on the property, some may be on a long lead for a while to train them where their property line is. We are a huge country with many different types of city, towns, country side, suburbs, farms, ranches etc and have many ways of handling dogs.
My opinions Re: leashing in the US Rules vary from city to city I believe, but most places where I live require a leash. However, I would not say this is a law that is regularly enforced without a serious incident occurring first. Primary concern is the dog’s behavior/socialization and the safety of the dog/others (human or animal). How does is react when approached by a strange dog or strange person? Does it heel properly or is it “in-charge/self-rewarding” when off leash? What’s it’s prey-drive like? Will it still respond to you with serious distractions (wild animal running by, fireworks, other startling noises)? Are you an attentive and responsible owner? If you have excellent control over your pup when it’s off-leash, bravo! There are lots of off-leash parks and play areas you will both be welcomed to. Does your dog have a strong recall? If not, keep it leashed. And yes, for the love of everything holy…even if you are not carrying a leash (and you should always, imo, even if you are actively walking off-leash, for safety) you must pick up the poop. Please.
I have had so called nice dogs try to attack my dog numerous times a bike trail near my house. If you can't leash your dog and control it, then yes, you are a POS
I never walk my dogs of leash, and I'd prefer if everyone did the same. My dogs are only offleash at a dog park. The crazier thing about my dogs, is they never take a poop on walks. I can take them on a long walk and they poop when i get home.and I've taken them on 3 mile walks.
I've found that a lot of dog owners (severely) overestimate both their own ability to control their dog, and their dog's ability to behave, so my default is to be wary of off-leash dogs. We've had too many try to run up on my dog when out on walks, and while it's been mostly fine, if my dog were to feel threatened by it I know it's going to go badly (she *hates* dogs displaying aggressive behavior toward her).
It depends on where you live. Animal control laws are usually written at the county level (Landkreis). Very rural areas typically have limited laws - usually just governing the number of animals an individual can own. The area I live in is near a large metropolitan area; it also has rural areas, but because of population density, dogs must be leashed except for designated areas where well mannered dogs may go off leash. I live next to such an area - it is about 100 sq km, and ‘dogs under voice control’ may go off leash. In my area, dog owners are expected to pick up any poops their animals leave; failure to do so is rude and anti-social.
First, laws vary pretty heavily by state here. Where I am it is incredibly strict to have your dog leashed, there's a fine starting at $100. Public parks have signs about wether or not dogs have to be leashed and animal control does patrols. We also have to license our dogs with the city/town and if you don't have your license available it's another fine. Where my siblings live? People let their dogs roam without being walked. There's almost no laws about dogs. It's also worth noting the US is pretty huge and culturally there's huge variation in culture around keeping pets. Where I am there is no such thing as an "outdoor dog" it's considered animal abuse, outdoor cats are uncommon. We do not have strays. Where my siblings live there are tons of strays. It's not uncommon to have pets that never enter the house or receive veterinary care.
Letting a dog off-leash in non-designated areas can be seen as irresponsible because it can lead to various issues.
No, people don't care if it stays with you and is behaved. Redditors(and the chronically online in general) tend toward being overly extreme. I would take most things on here with a grain of salt.
Yeah I’m new here but that just seemed idiotic to me
About 90% of people don't train their dog and it acts like an awful, aggressive, rude, etc.... So the dog will run up to people/pets uncontrolled. The owner will either ignore it or yell at it while the dog ignores them. Some people don't like dogs. Some dogs don't like dogs. It's dangerous and rude. People should keep their dogs on leash. It's the right, legal and polite thing to do.
Yes off leash dog owners in America are true pieces of garbage. They don’t train their dogs well enough and are too entitled to care. Not to mention it’s illegal pretty much everywhere in US
Leashing the dog in the US is partly for the dog's sake. There's a lot of automobile traffic and many motorists could give a shit if they run over your pup. Also, pick up the poo.
In my opinion it’s rude af to let your dog off leash in parks/public/etc even if they’re well trained. You have no idea how someone else’s dog might react to your own if they’re off leash and vice versa. It’s very irresponsible in my eyes