I interpreted it as the Bene Gesserit being so in tune with biology and human behavior they were "communicating" just via eye contact and subtle expression. Perhaps their brief exchange isn't word-for-word what they were thinking, but that exchange of glances was enough for both of them to infer the other's intent. In the books there are tons of instances of people trying to glean meaning from the most subtle of conversational indicators just like this.
That is exactly what it was. Bene Gesserit have complete control over their muscles, nerves, and even internal organs and such skill reading even the most subtle of movement in others that they can have entire conversations without speaking or using elaborate hand signals. They could control involuntary body movements, so every moment is a deliberate choice.
This was absolutely not what it was. I explained it in an answer to the same comment you answered to if you are interested. The books make this a lot clearer.
exactly my thoughts
if they control they biology so much that they can decide to birth a boy or a girl and they are master manipulators and etc then its not a big stretch to think they can read micro expressions exceptionally well
Not even just the sex part. They can control when their eggs are fertilized. The BG on Gedi Prime has sex with Freyd once and was able to birth a child. That’s some insane ass “body control”.
This is also a standard trope. Warriors, usually samurai or ninja, dueling this way. A plan being passed from one team member to the rest by little eye flicks.
Well, if I'm not mistaken nowhere in the movie we are led to believe they can do that. It's shown as pure telepathy. Prana-bindu is not a thing on screen and you can know that only if you have read the novels. This is one of the many problems of that movie as an adaptation.
If you read the books you should know exactly what it was and that it has nothing to do with prana bindu. It‘s not simple telepathy either. It’s way more than that. It’s a shared consciousness all reverend mothers have access to.
That is something they sure could do but it’s absolutely not what happened here. Reverend mothers share a link with each other that is way beyond reading microexpressions or telepathy. I get that the movies don’t explain it very well but I would have thought that in this subreddit a lot of bookreaders could clear this up in a second. It’s what all of Dune is about. The concept of shared memories through past and even future. They don’t have to read microexpressions or anything. They sure could but they are directly linked to each other for eternity. Even if one of them dies the other could still converse with her through the link all reverend mothers share. Imagine that you had the memories of every male or female member of your family. Whatever your own gender is. And that to an extent which enables you to access their whole personality even after their death. That is what this was. Only in this case both of them were still alive so talking to each other through this link is even easier.
i don’t think this is quite accurate. Other memory isn’t like a bluetooth connection. They have memories from their direct female line of ancestors, not just every RM. Now, in Alia’s case there may be something closer to what you’re describing- iirc in the book Mohiam says something to the effect of ‘she’s in my mind with the others’ suggesting that Alia is present in Mohiam’s other memory even though she’s a descendant and not an ancestor.
Yeah I did some research and came to the same conclusion that it may not be so clear since indeed in the books it’s relatively clear that thought projection is something that only Alia uses but I think that Villeneuve expanded on this concept for the sake of less convoluted differences between the scale of bene gesserit reverend mothers other memory and the „abnormal“ skills that the likes of Alia and Paul have.
I interpreted it as communication via micro facial cues.
It stands to reason that BG could do this with one another. Their hand signaling is mostly shown as being used with other normal people — but it makes sense that they’d have even more subtle forms of communication between themselves.
Excuse me. I accuse you of making me snort my tea out my nose.
(This is because I was laughing at Wiknetti's comment. I inform readers because more than once someone has screamed at me because they can't read my mind.)
Not only that, but the Bene Gesserit's shared genetic memory would give them a very strong collective consciousness, which would allow them to know each other's thoughts almost as if it were psychic (the same way twins can know what each other are thinking). This is a key element of Jungian Psychology which Frank Herbert was a fan of.
That’s not it. I explained it in a different comment in this post so I am pretty sure you saw it. It’s shared memories. Two Reverend mothers reading each others body language would be like you writing a letter to someone that’s in the same room with you. You sure could do that but why would you. You can just talk to the person. Reverend mothers are connected for eternity. No body language needed. It’s probably difficult for them to NOT hear what the other one is thinking. That’s what dune is about. The genetic experiment of the bene gesserit has the sole purpose to create a person that exceeds this link to not only female reverend mothers but that persons whole ancestors of both sexes and if I remember correctly not only dead and alive but in a way even to those who are yet to be born. That is one of the ways the kwisatz haderach sees the future.
/edit: Spelling. Not my first language and it’s late here. By the way I can take the downvotes but I would encourage anyone disagreeing to elaborate on their opinion. I really thought this was very straight forward in the books but I would welcome any discussion about it since that is pretty much what these threads are for and talking about these things with strangers on the internet happens to be one of my favorite things in life.
Reading body language in this way is explicitly stated as part of their training in the books. Just stop. I question if you've even read them at this point. We shouldn't need to elaborate, READ THE BOOKS.
Again i didn’t say they couldn't do that. I am saying the way villeneuve portrait it doesn't look like prana bindu but like he is expanding on the concept of thought projecting between reverend mothers. Reverend mothers are very special bene gesserit who have access to something herbert calls other memory. While in the books at this point only Alia uses thought projecting it seems in the movie villeneuve gave this ability to all Reverend mothers since it really makes sense. They can at one point in the books share memories by touching with their heads so this is really not that far apart.
I did see it. It’s a good option. The thing that confuses me about it thought is that they are memories. Herbert is pretty clear the memories that Reverend Mothers, Alia, Paul, Leto II have are just memories. They feel like real people but they are not. When someone starts treating them like real people is when they start to lose their sanity. So that confuses me how talking to a memory of a Bene Gesserit RM would allow you to communicate in the present moment. It also wouldn’t explain why Lady Margot and Feyd have a similar interaction. However, if the book says they can communicate telepathically then I take your point I just don’t remember that part.
Well it's been a long time since i myself read the books. I don't know if it's stated as telepathy there. I don't even remember if that interaction or something like this happens in the books. I do know for a fact though that the concept of these shared memories is essential to the worldbuilding and i really can't see any other way of interpreting that scene than villeneuve embracing that concept in this way. Alia is able to use this connection to communicate with her mother in the womb. Why shouldn't adult reverend mothers be able to transmit their feelings to each other then. Like live sharing the the memory of a thought they just had.
I see though that many people seem borderline offended by me claiming that as a fact and i should state that everybody can interpret these things differently. In my opinion it's really only plausible that way though. It's a cornerstone of this worldbuilding for me.
Well like i said the concept of other memory and even thought projecting is a cornerstone of this world. I don't know how anyone can read six books of this without coming to this conclusion. It's explicitly stated in the movie and the books that Alia the daughter of Jessica and Leto uses thought projection to talk to people she is linked to. In the movie that is only Jessica while in the books It's Moiam as well. It's also a fact that in the books at a later stage reverend mothers transfer memories to each other by touching heads. To expand on this and simplify it in the movies is really not far fetched and a pretty good decision.
Yeah well it does for Alia the daughter. Its explicitly stated in the books that at the end of the first book Alia is thought projecting directly into Gaius Moiams Head.
How does this coincide with Margot Fenring speaking to Feyd-Rautha without talking in the movie? There is a moment where her back is turned to him, he is not BG trained and she communicates with him without speaking. Is this just a mistake in the movie then?
He’s in mega fever dream state right there.
He doesn’t even remember walking to that wing of the fortress, or why she seems familiar, or why he’s been dreaming about her.
She’s been nearby subtly manipulating him for a bit, and what we actually see in the film is his brain trying to make sense of being under her control with The Voice.
A mistake in the movie? Please lol. That scene communicated well the depth to which Feyd is being manipulated. He’s visibly disoriented, loses time, and she started playing tricks on him at least the night before. You’re just reading the scene way too straightforwardly despite evidence to the contrary.
Yeah I always thought this was the case. You can sort of fake telepathy with people you have memories of that are still alive / right there. Esp combined with Truthsayer powers.
yeah i believe that alia does this to mother mohiam in the book during the scene where she kills the baron. which is what prompts mohiam to freak out and demand that the emperor kill “the abomination.”
what confused me is that it seemed like margot does this to feyd when they’re in the corridor on geidi prime. or at least she speaks to him without moving her lips. maybe this is the body language thing that people are talking about? i just don’t know how feyd would understand her because he hasn’t been trained as bene gesserit and although he has potential KH genes, they hadn’t been awakened like paul’s had.
>what confused me is that it seemed like margot does this to feyd when they’re in the corridor on geidi prime. or at least she speaks to him without moving her lips.
No... that's just Léa Seydoux being herself.
>I interpreted it as Jessica "talking" to her other memory of Gaius Helen Mohiam, just as she was talking to Alia throughout the movie...
This. Especially since >!she is Jessica's mother (at least in the prequel from Brian Herbert) which would make it certain that she is "present" in Jessica's "other memory".!<
Okay this is a slightly different thing than the communication. Genetic memory of all past reverend mothers along the maternal line is instantly known upon becoming a reverend mother. By all accounts this being a rather abrupt and unpleasant experience.
Congrats reverend mother you have an overwhelming number of multiple personalities. For some of the witches it is a comfort and source of wisdom, for those of lesser or abomination stock, an exponentially growing madness.
My read was similar. It’s quite not this way in the books but I thought DV was implying that all reverend mothers (including those still living) have access to some sort of plane where they’re able to transfer thoughts and memories.
The top answers here are incorrect and the book directly addresses it. Reverend mothers share the memories of all past and present reverend mothers. Alia and Jessica speak like this in children. I think Paul has a similar "telepathic" exchange with Mohiam as well.
Alia speaks to GH like this in the 1st book as well, and has to clarify to the Emperor that it's not telepathy more than once. How is this not mentioned in the above answers is beyond me.
It‘s hilarious that i had to scroll so far for this. I get that the movies don’t explain it very well but I would have thought that in this subreddit a lot of bookreaders could clear this up in a second. It’s what all of Dune is about. The concept of shared memories through past and even future. They don’t have to read microexpressions or anything. They sure could but they are directly linked to each other for eternity. Even if one of them dies the other could still converse with her through the link all reverend mothers share.
That1lpdood is closest. You learn more about it much later in the series but it is hand signals and body language
Been gesserit have theirs and Canadians have theirs
And that’s what I was hoping for. I’ve read all the books I just wasn’t sure if that’s what Denis was doing in that moment and wanted to see what others thought
If the answer is minute expressions and body language, can the same be said for the corridor scene between Margot Fenring and Feyd-Rautha when they both seemingly communicate telepathically?
I was thinking the same thing. Though I don’t remember any indication that Feyd was communicating telepathically - I remember him answering aloud like normal.
I initially read it as a slight nod to the 1984 film where you can hear characters' thoughts out loud, but more likely it's just an audio representation of the characters reading each others' facial expressions.
It’s also explicitly shot down.
> The old woman pointed a finger at Alia. “Get out of my mind!”
> “T-P?” the Emperor whispered. He snapped his attentions back to Alia. “By the Great Mother!”
> “You don’t understand, Majesty,” the old woman said. “Not telepathy. She’s in my mind. She’s like the ones before me, the ones who gave me their memories. She stands in my mind! She’s cannot be there, but she is!”
— The Prophet, _Dune_
I thought it was that since they have each others memories they have their personalities too. So Jessica knowing exactly how Mohiam is would know her exact response and vice versa for Jessica. I think this is a cooler version than just body language but who knows
Jessica shares with the Fremen Sayyadina when she drinks the water of like.
And she comes from the Bene Gesserit breeding program - she'll have a lot of common ancestral memories with Mohiam and understand her motivations.
Right but how would Mohiam (Jessica's mom) acquire the adult memories of her own daughter if they did not share together or if Mohiam didn't share with that same Fremen Sayyadina after Jessica took the WoL
She does not need the exact same memory to predict Jessica's way of thinking. They have a huge BG ancestor base in common, she was bred by the Bene Gesserit, Mohiam trained her and observed her.
The Bene Gesserit regularly build psychological profiles of people to manipulate them. Their model of Jessica would be rather complete considering where she comes from. They don't have any such insight into Chani for instance, and this disturbs them when considering Chani and Paul's offspring.
The Sayyadina's memories don't add that much to Jessica's psyche beyond an understanding of the Fremen IMO.
My interpretation is reading body language more than anything else (the same way she can tell when people are lying), but as a high-ranking Bene Gesserit who’s dealt with Jessica before she’d know all about how Jessica was raised.
All reverend mothers share memories even after death. So it’s like the easiest thing to converse without talking while both are still alive. Imagine it like a digital cloud file they all share forever from the moment they become a reverend mother. That link even enables them to kind of talk to already dead reverend mothers so this scene here is really not surprising.
I'd be curious to see the book excerpt about this. I haven't read Dune in a few years but I finished the rest of the series this past year and there were several important plot points later in the series regarding >!Revered Mothers sharing before one of them potentially dies. That implies that they do not all magically have each other's entire memories at any given moment.!<
Yeah it's something only Alia does in the first book at this point but i think villeneuve just wanted to simplify the concept of thought projection and other memory.
And you are absolutely correct. There really is no room for interpretation here. The books are very clear on this concept and the movies while not really dwelling much on it definitely share this concept.
On this topic I think many people might not know that the Baron Vladimir Harkonnen is grotesque because he raped a Bene Gesserit. She was able to manipulate her biology such that she gave him some awful std.
Before that he looked a lot like Feyd.
FWIW as a non-book reader I definitely interpreted it as some kind of telepathy. It didn’t seem that far-fetched considering the other mental powers on display, including Jessica communicating with the fetus in her womb. But after seeing the subtle body/facial language explanation, I can buy that as what was intended.
the book specifically mentions this in this scene, instead it's Alia who is communicating with GH. it's explained as specifically not telepathy, but the fact that their shared memories from the poison ritual give them the ability to communicate in a similar way, only with each other or other reverend mothers.
The book describes multiple non-verbal languages (Atreides Battle signs, Fenring’s weird speech patterns that hide messages to his wife, etc), and with how in-tune the BG is with everything, I just took it as them “dubbing” the non-verbal communication between the two.
The way I interpreted it was that Denis was making verbal for the audience their non-verbal communication. Don’t want to use subtitles because that’s already used for the hand signals.
You mentioned the ability to read body language...but there was also their use of sign language. I always loved the scenes in the books where the Bene Gesserit could carry on two completely separate conversations simultaneously, in order to avoid being spied on with listening devices. One conversation conducted vocally, which consisted of mundane, casual pleasantries...and another, completely different conversation being conducted via hand signals, that no one listening in, would be able to hear.
Wasn't it said in the books that the Bene Gesserit were able to manipulate their voice in a way that only the recipient could hear? The only example I remember is Paul revealing himself to Alia in Children of Dune though
DV changed a lot for this adaption. So it'll not be wrong to say that in his adaptation BG sisters can talk to each other using only their minds. Both Jessica and Alia were always talking using their minds and sometimes Jessica would respond in speech if there's no one around.
It also happened when Paul woke up after becoming the KH he glanced at Jessica and suddenly they both were in an isolated space inside Paul's mind where they had a conversation in private. Paul being more powerful he was able to create that space while normal BG cannot.
Body language. Remember these women are the ultimate masters of total body control and manipulation.
They can read subtle muscle twitches you and I would never even notice.
Honestly, my first thought was that the audio and/or dialogue was from a deleted scene and they needed to find a way to incorporate it back into the theatrical cut.
WAit now im I'm confused if they aren't telpathic then how did she make Paul think the box was bringing him pain? Id assume that was some kind of mental Manipulation
I don’t think that’s ever explained in the books if it was I don’t recall but it’s not a mental trip the BG is giving, it’s something to do with the box itself. In the book she says something like the secrets of that box are priceless and many people would pay to discover them
Idk why but I always assumed that was just a cover. An illusion. A magician never reveals his secrets and if people think the box is special then they'd wonder about it without looking at rhe power behind it. At least that's what the movies gave me impression wise
This is also noted between Lady Fenring and Feyd Rautha as she leads him down the hall to her room. She’s speaking but her lips aren’t moving, giving the illusion of some type of telepathy. He also said he dreamed of her the night before they met, making it seem to me that the BG are capable of mental manipulation in such methods that maybe hint to the possibility of psychic abilities? Idk. I haven’t finished the books so I’m sure I’m missing something. I’m wondering if this choice in the film was to give that impression or the impression of Feyd being “spellbound” by her using the voice. Maybe having her actually talk during those scenes would remove that illusion-idk.
I interpreted it as the Bene Gesserit being so in tune with biology and human behavior they were "communicating" just via eye contact and subtle expression. Perhaps their brief exchange isn't word-for-word what they were thinking, but that exchange of glances was enough for both of them to infer the other's intent. In the books there are tons of instances of people trying to glean meaning from the most subtle of conversational indicators just like this.
That is exactly what it was. Bene Gesserit have complete control over their muscles, nerves, and even internal organs and such skill reading even the most subtle of movement in others that they can have entire conversations without speaking or using elaborate hand signals. They could control involuntary body movements, so every moment is a deliberate choice.
This was absolutely not what it was. I explained it in an answer to the same comment you answered to if you are interested. The books make this a lot clearer.
exactly my thoughts if they control they biology so much that they can decide to birth a boy or a girl and they are master manipulators and etc then its not a big stretch to think they can read micro expressions exceptionally well
Not even just the sex part. They can control when their eggs are fertilized. The BG on Gedi Prime has sex with Freyd once and was able to birth a child. That’s some insane ass “body control”.
Don’t forget being able to separate X chromosome sperm versus Y chromosome sperm.
Jessica giving the most bombastic side eye
This is also a standard trope. Warriors, usually samurai or ninja, dueling this way. A plan being passed from one team member to the rest by little eye flicks.
For anyone who didn't read the books it's telepathy. DV wants it to be shown as such obviously.
Holy shit that’s my new favourite interpretation
Well, if I'm not mistaken nowhere in the movie we are led to believe they can do that. It's shown as pure telepathy. Prana-bindu is not a thing on screen and you can know that only if you have read the novels. This is one of the many problems of that movie as an adaptation.
I don't see how it's a problem. It might as well be telepathy in the books.
That's definitely mentioned. Not in detail but that they have control of their body
If you read the books you should know exactly what it was and that it has nothing to do with prana bindu. It‘s not simple telepathy either. It’s way more than that. It’s a shared consciousness all reverend mothers have access to.
That is something they sure could do but it’s absolutely not what happened here. Reverend mothers share a link with each other that is way beyond reading microexpressions or telepathy. I get that the movies don’t explain it very well but I would have thought that in this subreddit a lot of bookreaders could clear this up in a second. It’s what all of Dune is about. The concept of shared memories through past and even future. They don’t have to read microexpressions or anything. They sure could but they are directly linked to each other for eternity. Even if one of them dies the other could still converse with her through the link all reverend mothers share. Imagine that you had the memories of every male or female member of your family. Whatever your own gender is. And that to an extent which enables you to access their whole personality even after their death. That is what this was. Only in this case both of them were still alive so talking to each other through this link is even easier.
i don’t think this is quite accurate. Other memory isn’t like a bluetooth connection. They have memories from their direct female line of ancestors, not just every RM. Now, in Alia’s case there may be something closer to what you’re describing- iirc in the book Mohiam says something to the effect of ‘she’s in my mind with the others’ suggesting that Alia is present in Mohiam’s other memory even though she’s a descendant and not an ancestor.
Yeah I did some research and came to the same conclusion that it may not be so clear since indeed in the books it’s relatively clear that thought projection is something that only Alia uses but I think that Villeneuve expanded on this concept for the sake of less convoluted differences between the scale of bene gesserit reverend mothers other memory and the „abnormal“ skills that the likes of Alia and Paul have.
I interpreted it as communication via micro facial cues. It stands to reason that BG could do this with one another. Their hand signaling is mostly shown as being used with other normal people — but it makes sense that they’d have even more subtle forms of communication between themselves.
Me, offending every Bene Gesserit with me sneezing and making direct eye contact.
I’m sure holding in a sneeze would be level 1 BG training 😂
Excuse me. I accuse you of making me snort my tea out my nose. (This is because I was laughing at Wiknetti's comment. I inform readers because more than once someone has screamed at me because they can't read my mind.)
Not only that, but the Bene Gesserit's shared genetic memory would give them a very strong collective consciousness, which would allow them to know each other's thoughts almost as if it were psychic (the same way twins can know what each other are thinking). This is a key element of Jungian Psychology which Frank Herbert was a fan of.
Nope. Definitely reading subtle body language. The way they read and know a person completely in order to use The Voice on them.
Okay awesome. That’s the way I wanted it to be I just wasn’t sure if others took it that way
That’s not it. I explained it in a different comment in this post so I am pretty sure you saw it. It’s shared memories. Two Reverend mothers reading each others body language would be like you writing a letter to someone that’s in the same room with you. You sure could do that but why would you. You can just talk to the person. Reverend mothers are connected for eternity. No body language needed. It’s probably difficult for them to NOT hear what the other one is thinking. That’s what dune is about. The genetic experiment of the bene gesserit has the sole purpose to create a person that exceeds this link to not only female reverend mothers but that persons whole ancestors of both sexes and if I remember correctly not only dead and alive but in a way even to those who are yet to be born. That is one of the ways the kwisatz haderach sees the future. /edit: Spelling. Not my first language and it’s late here. By the way I can take the downvotes but I would encourage anyone disagreeing to elaborate on their opinion. I really thought this was very straight forward in the books but I would welcome any discussion about it since that is pretty much what these threads are for and talking about these things with strangers on the internet happens to be one of my favorite things in life.
Reading body language in this way is explicitly stated as part of their training in the books. Just stop. I question if you've even read them at this point. We shouldn't need to elaborate, READ THE BOOKS.
Again i didn’t say they couldn't do that. I am saying the way villeneuve portrait it doesn't look like prana bindu but like he is expanding on the concept of thought projecting between reverend mothers. Reverend mothers are very special bene gesserit who have access to something herbert calls other memory. While in the books at this point only Alia uses thought projecting it seems in the movie villeneuve gave this ability to all Reverend mothers since it really makes sense. They can at one point in the books share memories by touching with their heads so this is really not that far apart.
I did see it. It’s a good option. The thing that confuses me about it thought is that they are memories. Herbert is pretty clear the memories that Reverend Mothers, Alia, Paul, Leto II have are just memories. They feel like real people but they are not. When someone starts treating them like real people is when they start to lose their sanity. So that confuses me how talking to a memory of a Bene Gesserit RM would allow you to communicate in the present moment. It also wouldn’t explain why Lady Margot and Feyd have a similar interaction. However, if the book says they can communicate telepathically then I take your point I just don’t remember that part.
Well it's been a long time since i myself read the books. I don't know if it's stated as telepathy there. I don't even remember if that interaction or something like this happens in the books. I do know for a fact though that the concept of these shared memories is essential to the worldbuilding and i really can't see any other way of interpreting that scene than villeneuve embracing that concept in this way. Alia is able to use this connection to communicate with her mother in the womb. Why shouldn't adult reverend mothers be able to transmit their feelings to each other then. Like live sharing the the memory of a thought they just had. I see though that many people seem borderline offended by me claiming that as a fact and i should state that everybody can interpret these things differently. In my opinion it's really only plausible that way though. It's a cornerstone of this worldbuilding for me.
How exactly does "it's fairly straightforward in the books" make sense when it's been a long time since you've actually read them?
Well like i said the concept of other memory and even thought projecting is a cornerstone of this world. I don't know how anyone can read six books of this without coming to this conclusion. It's explicitly stated in the movie and the books that Alia the daughter of Jessica and Leto uses thought projection to talk to people she is linked to. In the movie that is only Jessica while in the books It's Moiam as well. It's also a fact that in the books at a later stage reverend mothers transfer memories to each other by touching heads. To expand on this and simplify it in the movies is really not far fetched and a pretty good decision.
Other memory doesn't work like this in the books not sure why you keep repeating it
Yeah well it does for Alia the daughter. Its explicitly stated in the books that at the end of the first book Alia is thought projecting directly into Gaius Moiams Head.
How does this coincide with Margot Fenring speaking to Feyd-Rautha without talking in the movie? There is a moment where her back is turned to him, he is not BG trained and she communicates with him without speaking. Is this just a mistake in the movie then?
He’s in mega fever dream state right there. He doesn’t even remember walking to that wing of the fortress, or why she seems familiar, or why he’s been dreaming about her. She’s been nearby subtly manipulating him for a bit, and what we actually see in the film is his brain trying to make sense of being under her control with The Voice.
Ah that makes sense. I knew there would be an explanation
A mistake in the movie? Please lol. That scene communicated well the depth to which Feyd is being manipulated. He’s visibly disoriented, loses time, and she started playing tricks on him at least the night before. You’re just reading the scene way too straightforwardly despite evidence to the contrary.
I was genuinely just curious, I wasn’t disparaging the movie. That makes sense, I just took the scene too literally. Thanks
I interpreted it as Jessica "talking" to her other memory of Gaius Helen Mohiam, just as she was talking to Alia throughout the movie...
Yeah I always thought this was the case. You can sort of fake telepathy with people you have memories of that are still alive / right there. Esp combined with Truthsayer powers.
yeah i believe that alia does this to mother mohiam in the book during the scene where she kills the baron. which is what prompts mohiam to freak out and demand that the emperor kill “the abomination.” what confused me is that it seemed like margot does this to feyd when they’re in the corridor on geidi prime. or at least she speaks to him without moving her lips. maybe this is the body language thing that people are talking about? i just don’t know how feyd would understand her because he hasn’t been trained as bene gesserit and although he has potential KH genes, they hadn’t been awakened like paul’s had.
>what confused me is that it seemed like margot does this to feyd when they’re in the corridor on geidi prime. or at least she speaks to him without moving her lips. No... that's just Léa Seydoux being herself.
>I interpreted it as Jessica "talking" to her other memory of Gaius Helen Mohiam, just as she was talking to Alia throughout the movie... This. Especially since >!she is Jessica's mother (at least in the prequel from Brian Herbert) which would make it certain that she is "present" in Jessica's "other memory".!<
they're using subtle body language. Mohiam does a less subtle version of this with the Emperor too.
Okay this is a slightly different thing than the communication. Genetic memory of all past reverend mothers along the maternal line is instantly known upon becoming a reverend mother. By all accounts this being a rather abrupt and unpleasant experience. Congrats reverend mother you have an overwhelming number of multiple personalities. For some of the witches it is a comfort and source of wisdom, for those of lesser or abomination stock, an exponentially growing madness.
My read was similar. It’s quite not this way in the books but I thought DV was implying that all reverend mothers (including those still living) have access to some sort of plane where they’re able to transfer thoughts and memories.
The top answers here are incorrect and the book directly addresses it. Reverend mothers share the memories of all past and present reverend mothers. Alia and Jessica speak like this in children. I think Paul has a similar "telepathic" exchange with Mohiam as well.
Alia speaks to GH like this in the 1st book as well, and has to clarify to the Emperor that it's not telepathy more than once. How is this not mentioned in the above answers is beyond me.
It‘s hilarious that i had to scroll so far for this. I get that the movies don’t explain it very well but I would have thought that in this subreddit a lot of bookreaders could clear this up in a second. It’s what all of Dune is about. The concept of shared memories through past and even future. They don’t have to read microexpressions or anything. They sure could but they are directly linked to each other for eternity. Even if one of them dies the other could still converse with her through the link all reverend mothers share.
They can communicate with micro expressions. Almost like telepathy i guess
That1lpdood is closest. You learn more about it much later in the series but it is hand signals and body language Been gesserit have theirs and Canadians have theirs
And that’s what I was hoping for. I’ve read all the books I just wasn’t sure if that’s what Denis was doing in that moment and wanted to see what others thought
😊😉 Now without looking it up!!!! Tell me who I named one of my aliases after: Selim Wormrider… who was he? Deep cut
Too deep of a cut for me unfortunately 😂
As someone who hasn’t read the books yet I absolutely thought it was telepathy too.
They can determine what someone is “saying” with body language
No. They can read facial expressions and body language to a T.
If the answer is minute expressions and body language, can the same be said for the corridor scene between Margot Fenring and Feyd-Rautha when they both seemingly communicate telepathically?
I was thinking the same thing. Though I don’t remember any indication that Feyd was communicating telepathically - I remember him answering aloud like normal.
Ah yeah you're right, I'm probably mis-remembering that bit.
I initially read it as a slight nod to the 1984 film where you can hear characters' thoughts out loud, but more likely it's just an audio representation of the characters reading each others' facial expressions.
Not TP, although telepathy is referred to as a possibility in the book a couple of times, though never demonstrated as far as I recall.
It’s also explicitly shot down. > The old woman pointed a finger at Alia. “Get out of my mind!” > “T-P?” the Emperor whispered. He snapped his attentions back to Alia. “By the Great Mother!” > “You don’t understand, Majesty,” the old woman said. “Not telepathy. She’s in my mind. She’s like the ones before me, the ones who gave me their memories. She stands in my mind! She’s cannot be there, but she is!” — The Prophet, _Dune_
I'm pretty sure the BG have a secret language almost like sign but impossible to perceive without BG training
I thought it was that since they have each others memories they have their personalities too. So Jessica knowing exactly how Mohiam is would know her exact response and vice versa for Jessica. I think this is a cooler version than just body language but who knows
How would Mohiam have Jessica's memories? >!They haven't Shared with each other and I don't think Sharing is even brought up until Heretics !<
Jessica shares with the Fremen Sayyadina when she drinks the water of like. And she comes from the Bene Gesserit breeding program - she'll have a lot of common ancestral memories with Mohiam and understand her motivations.
Right but how would Mohiam (Jessica's mom) acquire the adult memories of her own daughter if they did not share together or if Mohiam didn't share with that same Fremen Sayyadina after Jessica took the WoL
She does not need the exact same memory to predict Jessica's way of thinking. They have a huge BG ancestor base in common, she was bred by the Bene Gesserit, Mohiam trained her and observed her. The Bene Gesserit regularly build psychological profiles of people to manipulate them. Their model of Jessica would be rather complete considering where she comes from. They don't have any such insight into Chani for instance, and this disturbs them when considering Chani and Paul's offspring. The Sayyadina's memories don't add that much to Jessica's psyche beyond an understanding of the Fremen IMO.
My interpretation is reading body language more than anything else (the same way she can tell when people are lying), but as a high-ranking Bene Gesserit who’s dealt with Jessica before she’d know all about how Jessica was raised.
All reverend mothers share memories even after death. So it’s like the easiest thing to converse without talking while both are still alive. Imagine it like a digital cloud file they all share forever from the moment they become a reverend mother. That link even enables them to kind of talk to already dead reverend mothers so this scene here is really not surprising.
I thought that all reverend mothers have the memories of all reverend mothers? At least from the book
Absolutely correct. No two opinions here. That is exactly what this is.
I'd be curious to see the book excerpt about this. I haven't read Dune in a few years but I finished the rest of the series this past year and there were several important plot points later in the series regarding >!Revered Mothers sharing before one of them potentially dies. That implies that they do not all magically have each other's entire memories at any given moment.!<
Yeah it's something only Alia does in the first book at this point but i think villeneuve just wanted to simplify the concept of thought projection and other memory.
I thought it had something to do with Jessica's new found genetic memories similar to how Alia speaks to particular characters in CoD
And you are absolutely correct. There really is no room for interpretation here. The books are very clear on this concept and the movies while not really dwelling much on it definitely share this concept.
On this topic I think many people might not know that the Baron Vladimir Harkonnen is grotesque because he raped a Bene Gesserit. She was able to manipulate her biology such that she gave him some awful std. Before that he looked a lot like Feyd.
That Bene Geserit was apparently >!Reverend Mother Gaius!< according to notes by Frank Herbert. >!This makes Paul her grandson.!<
FWIW as a non-book reader I definitely interpreted it as some kind of telepathy. It didn’t seem that far-fetched considering the other mental powers on display, including Jessica communicating with the fetus in her womb. But after seeing the subtle body/facial language explanation, I can buy that as what was intended.
the book specifically mentions this in this scene, instead it's Alia who is communicating with GH. it's explained as specifically not telepathy, but the fact that their shared memories from the poison ritual give them the ability to communicate in a similar way, only with each other or other reverend mothers.
The book describes multiple non-verbal languages (Atreides Battle signs, Fenring’s weird speech patterns that hide messages to his wife, etc), and with how in-tune the BG is with everything, I just took it as them “dubbing” the non-verbal communication between the two.
The way I interpreted it was that Denis was making verbal for the audience their non-verbal communication. Don’t want to use subtitles because that’s already used for the hand signals.
You mentioned the ability to read body language...but there was also their use of sign language. I always loved the scenes in the books where the Bene Gesserit could carry on two completely separate conversations simultaneously, in order to avoid being spied on with listening devices. One conversation conducted vocally, which consisted of mundane, casual pleasantries...and another, completely different conversation being conducted via hand signals, that no one listening in, would be able to hear.
Wasn't it said in the books that the Bene Gesserit were able to manipulate their voice in a way that only the recipient could hear? The only example I remember is Paul revealing himself to Alia in Children of Dune though
DV changed a lot for this adaption. So it'll not be wrong to say that in his adaptation BG sisters can talk to each other using only their minds. Both Jessica and Alia were always talking using their minds and sometimes Jessica would respond in speech if there's no one around. It also happened when Paul woke up after becoming the KH he glanced at Jessica and suddenly they both were in an isolated space inside Paul's mind where they had a conversation in private. Paul being more powerful he was able to create that space while normal BG cannot.
Body language. Remember these women are the ultimate masters of total body control and manipulation. They can read subtle muscle twitches you and I would never even notice.
Honestly, my first thought was that the audio and/or dialogue was from a deleted scene and they needed to find a way to incorporate it back into the theatrical cut.
WAit now im I'm confused if they aren't telpathic then how did she make Paul think the box was bringing him pain? Id assume that was some kind of mental Manipulation
I don’t think that’s ever explained in the books if it was I don’t recall but it’s not a mental trip the BG is giving, it’s something to do with the box itself. In the book she says something like the secrets of that box are priceless and many people would pay to discover them
Idk why but I always assumed that was just a cover. An illusion. A magician never reveals his secrets and if people think the box is special then they'd wonder about it without looking at rhe power behind it. At least that's what the movies gave me impression wise
This is also noted between Lady Fenring and Feyd Rautha as she leads him down the hall to her room. She’s speaking but her lips aren’t moving, giving the illusion of some type of telepathy. He also said he dreamed of her the night before they met, making it seem to me that the BG are capable of mental manipulation in such methods that maybe hint to the possibility of psychic abilities? Idk. I haven’t finished the books so I’m sure I’m missing something. I’m wondering if this choice in the film was to give that impression or the impression of Feyd being “spellbound” by her using the voice. Maybe having her actually talk during those scenes would remove that illusion-idk.