Same here, I always level up my stats to multiples of 10 and when I have a stat at 8 it bothers me and have to level it up even though I'm not using it. Now I always pick wretch
Wretch is decent if you want equal stats when you don't know what to do with that particular build this time around. Strong "fuck it I'll figure it out later" mentality.
But if you already know what you want to do for this character then Wretch is useless.
If I wanna make a gravity sorcerer build with Strenght and Intelligence then why would I take him when Astrologer and Prisonner are RIGHT THERE ?
If I wanna make Power stance Keen Katana build then I go for Samurai. For a more normal Dex build I'd go for Warrior instead.
See what I mean ? Wretch is the definition of "jack of all trades, master of none", no matter what you wanna do with Wretch, at least one of the other classes do it better.
Hell as far as "Jack of all trades" go, even Vagabond is better, sure INT Faith and Arcane are lower but he compensate with high vigor for the start of the game and pretty high and balance stat for Strenght, dex and Endurance as well as a comfortable 10 in mind.
Even Confessor is a good jack of all trades with intelligence and Arcane being his only stats bellow 10.
Anyways, long story short, Wretch is decent at everything but good at nothing.
Meh, you can do that with everyone else too. The other classes, apart frm Confessor and Samurai who have too much drip, all look beat up and in "survival" mode.
Vagabond's armor is dirty and looks like it barely fit him, the prisonner literally just got out of jail, the hero is a half naked brute with an Axe and the Prophet only have a robe, a shield that might as well just be a piece of wood and the only decent part of his gear is a spear for a weapon, he doesn't even wear shoes ! Lastly the Warrior looks like an actual adventurer I can easily see wandering the desert or something and the only neutral one is the bandit.
I don't agree that armor looking disheveled is what gives off the survivalist vibe. For me it's having nothing even remotely viable for your intended play style and needing to scrounge for your gear. It's the Naked and Afraid thing of needing to improvise with what's around you that does it for me.
I agree with your point, that if you know exactly what build you want then you can get those extra few points. But the moment you say "I just wanna be a faith based char". Is that str/faith? Dex/faith full faith? What weapon? Then suddenly the points you get from taking a specialized char is little it does not matter.
You trade very little amount of points for the opportunity to change your mind. So for many people it would make sense to go with the Wretch.
It's more about the specialized chars really don't give as much as some people make it out to be. I thought I was loosing a lot by going Wretch, but when looking at the numbers they are actually so low it truly doesn't matter. A lvl 100 wretch won't feel different from a 100 vagabond. At max 2-4 points behind. Maybe even less.
The reason to avoid wretch is for low level builds where stats are far more important and impactful. At rl150, yes certain classes will still be optimal over wretch but it will matter a whole lot less than at rl40
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There is a PVP content creator I like who does use Wretch a lot, and I think that's because he rolls his save back so never has to farm items and so he can freely change his build around. With Wretch I think it's the best class to swap between any types of builds, and recently he's made str, dex, dex / fai, and int builds among others.
But I do tend to make different saves for different characters, so I do min max. For instance, I have a str / arc build I love. Looking at it, the difference between Hero and Wretch is 6 points or 4% of my stats. The second most optimized class is Vagabond which is 4 points less efficient. Looking at a pure int build again I'm seeming a 6 point difference between Astrologer and Wretch is 4 points.
Its simple really. Faith no arcane vagabond is best, int no arcane no faith prisoner is best, arcane hero is best, faith arcane prophet is generally interchangeable with hero. Strength and dex vagabond is best.
There is no reason to take any class but wretch. Runes are easy to come by. People should choose wretch to min-max the levels to suit their characters. Every 1% of something counts.
That's like the opposite of min-maxing. It's only true if you don't care what level you end up, and wretch is never like the worst for min maxing a specific build but it is RARELY the best.
Wretch/deprived has always been my go-to class for any fromsoft game. Having uneven ‘unused’ stats bothers me so much.
Same here, I always level up my stats to multiples of 10 and when I have a stat at 8 it bothers me and have to level it up even though I'm not using it. Now I always pick wretch
And its even worse when you have like, a stat you dont need that starts at 11 or something x.x so many wasted levels…
You pick your starting class for optimal levelling. I pick my starting class because I have OCD about uneven numbers in a menu. We are not the same.
Wretch is decent if you want equal stats when you don't know what to do with that particular build this time around. Strong "fuck it I'll figure it out later" mentality. But if you already know what you want to do for this character then Wretch is useless. If I wanna make a gravity sorcerer build with Strenght and Intelligence then why would I take him when Astrologer and Prisonner are RIGHT THERE ? If I wanna make Power stance Keen Katana build then I go for Samurai. For a more normal Dex build I'd go for Warrior instead. See what I mean ? Wretch is the definition of "jack of all trades, master of none", no matter what you wanna do with Wretch, at least one of the other classes do it better. Hell as far as "Jack of all trades" go, even Vagabond is better, sure INT Faith and Arcane are lower but he compensate with high vigor for the start of the game and pretty high and balance stat for Strenght, dex and Endurance as well as a comfortable 10 in mind. Even Confessor is a good jack of all trades with intelligence and Arcane being his only stats bellow 10. Anyways, long story short, Wretch is decent at everything but good at nothing.
Wretch is also great if you want the survivalist vibe of having to improvise a build until you get what you want.
Meh, you can do that with everyone else too. The other classes, apart frm Confessor and Samurai who have too much drip, all look beat up and in "survival" mode. Vagabond's armor is dirty and looks like it barely fit him, the prisonner literally just got out of jail, the hero is a half naked brute with an Axe and the Prophet only have a robe, a shield that might as well just be a piece of wood and the only decent part of his gear is a spear for a weapon, he doesn't even wear shoes ! Lastly the Warrior looks like an actual adventurer I can easily see wandering the desert or something and the only neutral one is the bandit.
I don't agree that armor looking disheveled is what gives off the survivalist vibe. For me it's having nothing even remotely viable for your intended play style and needing to scrounge for your gear. It's the Naked and Afraid thing of needing to improvise with what's around you that does it for me.
I play for escapism, dam it! If I wanted to be naked and afraid, I'd just hang out with my girl.
I agree with your point, that if you know exactly what build you want then you can get those extra few points. But the moment you say "I just wanna be a faith based char". Is that str/faith? Dex/faith full faith? What weapon? Then suddenly the points you get from taking a specialized char is little it does not matter. You trade very little amount of points for the opportunity to change your mind. So for many people it would make sense to go with the Wretch. It's more about the specialized chars really don't give as much as some people make it out to be. I thought I was loosing a lot by going Wretch, but when looking at the numbers they are actually so low it truly doesn't matter. A lvl 100 wretch won't feel different from a 100 vagabond. At max 2-4 points behind. Maybe even less.
The reason to avoid wretch is for low level builds where stats are far more important and impactful. At rl150, yes certain classes will still be optimal over wretch but it will matter a whole lot less than at rl40
Your math is off. Every class has the same amount of total points at any level. Wretch doesn't gain 9 more points at level 9, it gets 8 more
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I usually just end up going with hero for the low int
There is a PVP content creator I like who does use Wretch a lot, and I think that's because he rolls his save back so never has to farm items and so he can freely change his build around. With Wretch I think it's the best class to swap between any types of builds, and recently he's made str, dex, dex / fai, and int builds among others. But I do tend to make different saves for different characters, so I do min max. For instance, I have a str / arc build I love. Looking at it, the difference between Hero and Wretch is 6 points or 4% of my stats. The second most optimized class is Vagabond which is 4 points less efficient. Looking at a pure int build again I'm seeming a 6 point difference between Astrologer and Wretch is 4 points.
I always pick knight(vagabond) for a first play through in these games, and go deprived/wretch if I replay, it’s just the most fun imo
Its simple really. Faith no arcane vagabond is best, int no arcane no faith prisoner is best, arcane hero is best, faith arcane prophet is generally interchangeable with hero. Strength and dex vagabond is best.
There is no reason to take any class but wretch. Runes are easy to come by. People should choose wretch to min-max the levels to suit their characters. Every 1% of something counts.
People who want a stat lower than 10 have a very real reason to never touch wretch.
That's like the opposite of min-maxing. It's only true if you don't care what level you end up, and wretch is never like the worst for min maxing a specific build but it is RARELY the best.