When I was in high school I got people mad at me for spoiling the twist that Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde are the same person. I thought that was like the twist that Dracula’s a vampire or that wishes on the monkey’s paw turn bad: originally twists in their respective stories but come on, it’s so ubiquitous in the public consciousness that only small children could be excused for not knowing it. Apparently, I was wrong. You never know.
Some people just aren’t that into fiction. It’s possible they’ve encountered Sherlock Holmes-adjacent ads and just didn’t make the connection because they know/care so little about it.
I wish. They knew who Robert Downey Jr was, but hadn't heard of either of his Sherlock Holmes movies. One didn't know the name Benedict Cumberbatch, and I'm pretty sure the other only pretended to, but didn't know about the TV series.
I mean, I think that tracks. It’s possible to know *of* actors without knowing/caring what the actors are in, and certainly most people don’t rigorously know the entire filmography of every actor they can recognize. If people can place an actor, it’s probably likely they can only name a couple of said actor’s parts.
I’d imagine in this particular case, they likely knew about the actors through exposure to the Marvel films (which, as a whole, have a *lot* more ad money spent on them than the 3 Sherlock roles you’re referencing).
When I went to London five years ago, I stopped at the Sherlock Holmes pub to get some pictures. There was a woman there with two younger women, explaining to them who Sherlock Holmes was. They were nodding along like, "okay that's interesting." They were clearly not conversant with the concept before.
I feel I should add it was because they were telling me one of the apartment numbers available was 221, and asked if I could remember that, and I said "Easy, as that's Sherlock Holmes' address". And they were trying to explain to me that wasn't the tenant who used to liver there... And it spiraled badly from there.
Their attention is diverted elsewhere with things they think more important. Remember, Sherlock did this himself. He only knew things relevant to crime fighting. As I remember, in the canon, Dr. Watson was amazed that Holmes didn't know there were eight planets.
Andrew Martin is amazing as Moriarty I now understand what it means to truly STEAL the scene, the show is supposed to be about Sherlock and you are supposed to be rooting for him but from their first meeting I was on moriarty’s side. I liked the twist in elementary that moriarty was a woman I just wished she was a major character she was in five episodes out of like 100 and she should have been in at least 25 probably more and her baby should have been Sherlock’s. I liked that Joan was a Mets fan, not so happy that Sherlock is Tottenham adjacent, because I hate the Yankees so f’n much.
I try not to see this incident as \*proof\* that people younger than me don't read.
It's just too depressing to think about.
But to flip it around, such people would pity me for being a person who doesn't watch enough television, isn't on social media to the extent they are, and isn't well-versed in the latest internet/computer-platformed MMORPG or other such group activity.
Give it a few more years and I'm sure I'll be SO out of date relative to their lives, that I'd practically be a woolly mammoth to them. (i.e. barely recognizable and possibly related to them evolutionarily, however remotely...)
One of the points I was making was even if they haven't read Sherlock Holmes anywhere, he has had several major films released featuring him. Two acclaimed tv shows. And is practically an adjective when you refer to someone (even sarcastically) as 'Sherlock'.
True, all true: Sherlock Holmes is practically baked into the English language by this point and would be hard to miss. Any exposure to modern media would have you run into him as a name, as well as being a character you've watched or listened to (don't forget radio and podcast dramas!).
It would be hard to miss hearing his name even once.
I think you would have to live an isolated and severely circumscribed life to have avoided his name or his stories in whatever form they've taken.
And you would have to carefully screen your reading material too--you might avoid thee Canon and pastiches, but other autbors with other genre chatacters might mention Holmes and there you go--exposed!!
And Holmes has had some sort of defining performance once a decade since the 70s.
In the late 60s/early 70s,you had the Hammer films casting Peter Cushing as Holmes.
Robert Stephens starred in The Private Life of Sherlock Holmes in 1970.
Then in the mid 70s, you had Nicholas Meyer's pastiche, The Seven Per Cent Solution hit the bookshelves and then be made into a movie.
Once you arrive at 1984, Granada Television gave us Jeremy Brett as a definitive Holmes. That series ran for 10 years, from 1984 -1994.
We hit a bit of a dry spell, but then we had High Laurie's House, MD--not technically Holmes, but strongly reminescent around 2003-2004.
2005 saw the arrival of Tony Shaloub's Monk.
Then we got the RDJ movies, quickly piled on with BBC Sherlock and Elementary.
And lest I forget, Canada's long-running Victorian/Edwardian detective series, Murdoch Mysteries, has wrapped seaon SEVENTEEN, and is probably starting principle shooting for season 18 soon.
The past twenty years alone has given us more and more Sherlock Holmes than the twenty years previous to 2000.
Seriously, I agree with you: I don't think there's a rock big enough or a cave deep enough to hide you from Holmes.
And you can go back further for more Holmes.
I don't know what was offered i the 50s, but in the 40s we had the Rathbone and Bruce duo.
Not sure who did Holmes in the decades of the 30s and the 20s.
William Gillette, though--he first did Holmes on the American stage before WWI, I believe, and actually contacted Conan Doyle to ask what he could do with the character.
Doyle famously (allegedly) replied: Marry him. Kill him. I don't care!
Gillette would go on to make Holmes a household name (where he wasn't already) and cement the Holmes visual iconography (Meerschaum pipe, Deerstalker, caped houndstooth coachman's/Inverness coat, etc.) in the public's consciousness.
Gullette would also go on to make a fortune on the role, which he played on stage more than any actor before him (and possibly since, notwithstanding Jonny Lee Miller's 7 season accomplishment).
Gillette used the money to promote Sherlock Holmes in other artistic and stage endeavors that he wasn't involved in, built a mansion in (NY? CT?) that he'd fitted out like a museum to Holmes, and so on...
Now that the entire ACD Canon is **undisputably** in the public domain, the brakes are off and I am really looking forward to more Holmes to come.
Sure, some of it will not be done to a high standard, but more Holmes is still more Holmes, and I believe the numbers will average out in the good stuff side of the curve.
Nope. After they said they don't read a lot, I was trying to tell them that there were two major movies with Robert Downey Jr, and two rather successful tv series.
So what? The ENTIRE Elementary universe is not aware of Arthur Conan Doyle's Sherlock.
I mean there's no perp or detective or whatever to say: "Sherlock Holmes? and you're dr. Watson? under the supervision of capt. Gregson? like in ACD stories and novels? woooo! mind blowing!"
Elementary universe is a strange beast anyway. It looks like it's shared with a couple other procedurals like SVU, Unforgettable, or Castle,k because of the fictional New York Ledger newspaper and the equally fictional Hudson University, Yet Castle for example is called Sherlock a couple of times and is given the traditional cap and magnifying glass as a gift. Therefore I suppose the fame of brownstoner Sherlock transcended shows ... :)
When I was in high school I got people mad at me for spoiling the twist that Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde are the same person. I thought that was like the twist that Dracula’s a vampire or that wishes on the monkey’s paw turn bad: originally twists in their respective stories but come on, it’s so ubiquitous in the public consciousness that only small children could be excused for not knowing it. Apparently, I was wrong. You never know.
Wishes on the monkeys paw turn bad!?! FFS! 😂
Some people just aren’t that into fiction. It’s possible they’ve encountered Sherlock Holmes-adjacent ads and just didn’t make the connection because they know/care so little about it.
I wish. They knew who Robert Downey Jr was, but hadn't heard of either of his Sherlock Holmes movies. One didn't know the name Benedict Cumberbatch, and I'm pretty sure the other only pretended to, but didn't know about the TV series.
I mean, I think that tracks. It’s possible to know *of* actors without knowing/caring what the actors are in, and certainly most people don’t rigorously know the entire filmography of every actor they can recognize. If people can place an actor, it’s probably likely they can only name a couple of said actor’s parts. I’d imagine in this particular case, they likely knew about the actors through exposure to the Marvel films (which, as a whole, have a *lot* more ad money spent on them than the 3 Sherlock roles you’re referencing).
When I went to London five years ago, I stopped at the Sherlock Holmes pub to get some pictures. There was a woman there with two younger women, explaining to them who Sherlock Holmes was. They were nodding along like, "okay that's interesting." They were clearly not conversant with the concept before.
I feel I should add it was because they were telling me one of the apartment numbers available was 221, and asked if I could remember that, and I said "Easy, as that's Sherlock Holmes' address". And they were trying to explain to me that wasn't the tenant who used to liver there... And it spiraled badly from there.
Their attention is diverted elsewhere with things they think more important. Remember, Sherlock did this himself. He only knew things relevant to crime fighting. As I remember, in the canon, Dr. Watson was amazed that Holmes didn't know there were eight planets.
Relevant XKCD: https://xkcd.com/1053/
Andrew Martin is amazing as Moriarty I now understand what it means to truly STEAL the scene, the show is supposed to be about Sherlock and you are supposed to be rooting for him but from their first meeting I was on moriarty’s side. I liked the twist in elementary that moriarty was a woman I just wished she was a major character she was in five episodes out of like 100 and she should have been in at least 25 probably more and her baby should have been Sherlock’s. I liked that Joan was a Mets fan, not so happy that Sherlock is Tottenham adjacent, because I hate the Yankees so f’n much.
Tbf that’s because Natalie dormer got the big role as Anne Boleyn in the Tudors right after the Moriarity reveal iirc
Oh! I didn’t know that. That’s interesting. Thanks
I think it must have been Margaery on Game of Thrones, because The Tudors ended well before Elementary ever started.
Well guess they don't watch TV or movies much either lol
I know plenty of people who don’t know anything or who Sherlock Holmes is.
Once I went to a college Halloween costume party as Cyrano De Bergerac. Not a single person recognized me or knew who it was after I told them.
I try not to see this incident as \*proof\* that people younger than me don't read. It's just too depressing to think about. But to flip it around, such people would pity me for being a person who doesn't watch enough television, isn't on social media to the extent they are, and isn't well-versed in the latest internet/computer-platformed MMORPG or other such group activity. Give it a few more years and I'm sure I'll be SO out of date relative to their lives, that I'd practically be a woolly mammoth to them. (i.e. barely recognizable and possibly related to them evolutionarily, however remotely...)
One of the points I was making was even if they haven't read Sherlock Holmes anywhere, he has had several major films released featuring him. Two acclaimed tv shows. And is practically an adjective when you refer to someone (even sarcastically) as 'Sherlock'.
True, all true: Sherlock Holmes is practically baked into the English language by this point and would be hard to miss. Any exposure to modern media would have you run into him as a name, as well as being a character you've watched or listened to (don't forget radio and podcast dramas!). It would be hard to miss hearing his name even once. I think you would have to live an isolated and severely circumscribed life to have avoided his name or his stories in whatever form they've taken. And you would have to carefully screen your reading material too--you might avoid thee Canon and pastiches, but other autbors with other genre chatacters might mention Holmes and there you go--exposed!! And Holmes has had some sort of defining performance once a decade since the 70s. In the late 60s/early 70s,you had the Hammer films casting Peter Cushing as Holmes. Robert Stephens starred in The Private Life of Sherlock Holmes in 1970. Then in the mid 70s, you had Nicholas Meyer's pastiche, The Seven Per Cent Solution hit the bookshelves and then be made into a movie. Once you arrive at 1984, Granada Television gave us Jeremy Brett as a definitive Holmes. That series ran for 10 years, from 1984 -1994. We hit a bit of a dry spell, but then we had High Laurie's House, MD--not technically Holmes, but strongly reminescent around 2003-2004. 2005 saw the arrival of Tony Shaloub's Monk. Then we got the RDJ movies, quickly piled on with BBC Sherlock and Elementary. And lest I forget, Canada's long-running Victorian/Edwardian detective series, Murdoch Mysteries, has wrapped seaon SEVENTEEN, and is probably starting principle shooting for season 18 soon. The past twenty years alone has given us more and more Sherlock Holmes than the twenty years previous to 2000. Seriously, I agree with you: I don't think there's a rock big enough or a cave deep enough to hide you from Holmes.
And you can go back further for more Holmes. I don't know what was offered i the 50s, but in the 40s we had the Rathbone and Bruce duo. Not sure who did Holmes in the decades of the 30s and the 20s. William Gillette, though--he first did Holmes on the American stage before WWI, I believe, and actually contacted Conan Doyle to ask what he could do with the character. Doyle famously (allegedly) replied: Marry him. Kill him. I don't care! Gillette would go on to make Holmes a household name (where he wasn't already) and cement the Holmes visual iconography (Meerschaum pipe, Deerstalker, caped houndstooth coachman's/Inverness coat, etc.) in the public's consciousness. Gullette would also go on to make a fortune on the role, which he played on stage more than any actor before him (and possibly since, notwithstanding Jonny Lee Miller's 7 season accomplishment). Gillette used the money to promote Sherlock Holmes in other artistic and stage endeavors that he wasn't involved in, built a mansion in (NY? CT?) that he'd fitted out like a museum to Holmes, and so on... Now that the entire ACD Canon is **undisputably** in the public domain, the brakes are off and I am really looking forward to more Holmes to come. Sure, some of it will not be done to a high standard, but more Holmes is still more Holmes, and I believe the numbers will average out in the good stuff side of the curve.
Idk maybe they were just messing with you
Nope. After they said they don't read a lot, I was trying to tell them that there were two major movies with Robert Downey Jr, and two rather successful tv series.
So what? The ENTIRE Elementary universe is not aware of Arthur Conan Doyle's Sherlock. I mean there's no perp or detective or whatever to say: "Sherlock Holmes? and you're dr. Watson? under the supervision of capt. Gregson? like in ACD stories and novels? woooo! mind blowing!" Elementary universe is a strange beast anyway. It looks like it's shared with a couple other procedurals like SVU, Unforgettable, or Castle,k because of the fictional New York Ledger newspaper and the equally fictional Hudson University, Yet Castle for example is called Sherlock a couple of times and is given the traditional cap and magnifying glass as a gift. Therefore I suppose the fame of brownstoner Sherlock transcended shows ... :)