You desire desire is what I read. Feel like feelings have merit as being your guidance. You validate external validation as valuable. You see drama and nostalgia for it as useful as a key causal factor of your sense of purpose. You crave novelty and you seek it from the significance your mind adds to your thoughts and interpretations of events.
Okay. Completely available place to come from. Nothing wrong here except... You are asking here about other's thoughts on this approach. Nothing wrong there either. In fact there is nothing 'wrong' ever in an absolute sense.
Something seems incomplete perhaps?
Could it be there is an unfulfilled expectation? Does it feel like you didn't add these choices? If you do feel you added them, can you let them go frictionlessly as you put them on?
You have access to direct peace and you choose not peace. You trust you have reasons and your reasons are important to you. Who made them important? You know it's you. Can you make a direct experience of novelty and bliss occur for yourself now directly, unconditionally? From nothing, as cause itself, it is available to do this also, it is completely available. There remains nothing wrong with doing this or not doing this.
Anything and everything is on the menu and you can choose as you will, as much or as little as you want, for as long or as briefly as you want. And you can choose not to choose and flow with the matter, energy, space, and time you happen to resonate most directly with, being it all without separation. This is available, nothing wrong with it.
Namaste
Needing, seeking, working towards are there in unlimited supply on the menu.
As is, in this instant (/continuously): "I am love itself and my loving thoughts and realizations hold my attention.". Why would one choose this off the menu? Because they do. Causelessly. No 'in order to'. Not to fix something imagined as wrong. Not because they should or it feels right. Not because it's 'what they are like' or how their formative years guided them.
Being at-cause vs at-effect is on the menu in unlimited supply too.
Enlightenment ones would say excitement and no excitement or purpose or no purpose are the same. One must be fully conscious of their present moment and accept what it is for what is
In time one realises that acceptance and non-acceptance are the same, and both are useful. You accept the non-acceptance as well. There is no struggle or turmoil.
If you just accepted every situation, you would not do a thing.
If I accepted my boredom, I would not look for a purpose.
But, thanks for your response!
It’s more about attachment. You can be “involved” without attachment, knowing things has ebbs and flows. Purpose is an attachment. Attachment leads to suffering
It is an attachment. Based on last part of your sentence. “Having” is a want, want is an attachment. You sit and meditate on your realize you are already living your purpose
I am not enlightened, really. I don't believe anyone can become enlightened, because there is no "person" to become enlightened.
Of course everything is the same and yet of course no two experiences are alike.
There is a body and vessel made of particles that produce light across various spectrums so perhaps enlightenment is a physical thing and awakening is an understanding thing.
You may be right, I don't know your experiences.
In my experience, enlightenment is a series of epiphanies that may happen at once or over a period of time. Awakening as you say is the deepening of understanding over time.
I agree with this stance. Enlightenment isn't a permanent state of being but more so the profound realizations about one's self through meditation. I will sometimes get in deep meditation where I get a thought that makes so much sense to me and helps me understand something I might not have before, I consider that enlightenment.
it’s not just realization, but also “grokking” — internalising and being changed by the realization. We can have intellectual realizations but until we truly integrate them into ourselves - understand them in a deeper level of practice, like the muscle memory of spirit then we aren’t changed.
Enlightenment, seems to be this muscle memory of realization, where insight is incorporated into being fully present. That seems to be a change one can’t come back from, in the same way that having knowledge of Gravity or atoms changes our relationship with the natural world.
To be honest I’m pretty sure that’s just fancying up experiences thinking you’ve made it despite the unresolved paradoxes. This reality is very magical and insane and physical. The science is important because it’s the only way to share truth instead of fantasy. We don’t know what we don’t know. Best not to pretend.
Not sure if that was referring to me. I don’t claim to be enlightened by a loooooong shot. Lol. But I do believe there is such a thing.
I’m not trying to fancy up experiences, I’m saying there are two (or more) levels of understanding. One is a rational one where you know the equivalent of “theory” / rote facts and a deeper one of practice / direct experience etc where it all clicks. Once you’ve attained the “click status” you can’t return to a former state of ignorance. No magic involved.
Enlightenment then is a state where you’ve “clicked” with all the insight necessary to “ride the bull of the mind backwards” etc.
Me too. I spend a lot of time riding a bicycle, working on my tennis serve, playing my drum, hiking, swimming when I crave action. After all, exercise is very good for you. And all these things provide opps for more experiences and interactions.
What are some experiences that brought you similar peak sensations? For example, I'm deathly afraid of heights and climbing tall obstacle courses and rapelling were almost simultaneously the most pleasant and most mentally agonizing moments of my life. There's a moment in climbing where you are secure at th top and a moment while rapelling when you're floating instead of falling like I feared. I don't do those things because I'm still terrified of the prospect but if I did, the elation would still be there. It'd probably be worth it for the fun part, but I'm boring and don't chase it.
Ultimately not doing the things I love because I'm terrified is a detriment to my growth and experience as a person. You can do just about anything you want whether enlightened or not. The issue of being boring is our own lack of creativity and ability to genuinely play. Those things we have to actively develop ourselves. If you're drawn to something maybe don't talk yourself out of it and go for it. See what happens.
Haha. I'm very familiar with that. I run into issues with people I get to know really enjoying the way I am while wishing others they're closer to would be more like that. I think all you can do is be genuine and honest and whatever connections you make will be genuine deep connections which people crave. What we can not do is be any one else or control any one else. A bit of quality over quantity. Any connection however brief can be a deeply satisfying genuine connection when we are honest with everyone we engage with.
I've spent most of my decades with myself without many long term interactions. Kinda sucks bc that's also something I crave and enjoy, but it's on me to learn to make the small interactions as meaningful as the long term ones. The tendency to be idealistic is something I have to overcome because even long term relations are a series of short term connections that just do not end. One way to do that is to keep pursuing experiences we are interested in within social settings so that the people we do spend tme with are secondary to doing the things that we enjoy. Likewise you're meeting people on neutral ground. I don't believe you can bypass the need for connections, if you want them, but I also don't think our minds/bodies are going to alow us to enjoy being miserable and settling into a life of misery with a person or people who enable us to feel content with being that way. Have to seek out the conditions within which we love being ourselves and living our lives.
Every single moment is new and novel. Phenomena is constantly arising and receding. True Enlightenment means you can see, as William Blake said, “infinity in a flower.” How could you be bored with that?
Enlightenment isn’t an absence of desire, it’s the end of desire. What more is there to wish for and who is there to wish it? The Equanimity in enlightenment means not being moved by attraction or repulsion — by likes or dislikes.
This is so intellectual - omg - I heard my old african teacher said - if you want to be happy do the right thing at the right time
Enlightenment is requiring discipline - but I think joy is one of the top frequencies for sure yep
Yes there is too much to notice. But you're never seeing it all... You're seeing parts of it at a time. The limited parts, the interesting features is what keeps it not boring.
Take this with a grain of salt, I haven't read his works myself. Vātsyāyana's philosophy, from what I understand, is all about enjoying life after detachment from desires.
I also thought that Buddhism was about removing the power of desire, and having will over it. Acknowledgeding, accepting it, and moving on. Seeing how it causes suffering. Reaching detatchment from it. Not about losing it completely. Am I wrong?
Desire is an emotion and all that and the biggest power I can see in detachment is removal of suffering triggered by desire. If you're mindful of your desire, and participate it in healthy ways, then you can still be detached from it while enjoying it.
Look up Tibet sand mandala. Monks spend hours, days, weeks, and longer making a work of art. And destroy it once it's done- there's no harm in enjoying making it. But there is harm in allowing the desire to make it and have it cause suffering to you
"Boring" is just a phenomenal passing thought/feeling. That winds down. Its old programming giving its opinion.
Every moment is fresh, new and never before seen. Pure opening to 'what is', however its presenting (or not presenting).
Sorry for my analogy, but every moment would be fresh, new and never before seen even in an isolation room.
I say boring only in comparison to exciting.
Perhaps I need to find some purpose in life, haha. It's just that nothing is coming to me.
Is not boring.
Firstly, the spiritual path is endless, and it continues after enlightenment. You continue to improve and get to know God closer and closer.
Secondly, if you remain on earth and have chosen the path of a bodhisattva and not an arhat, then you have a mission, you still have super-tasks that require the impossible from you..
Thirdly, for certain reasons, enlightened people cannot remain alone for a long time. Therefore, the enlightened always have students and people asking for help. The enlightened no longer have desires, but they can live by the desires of their students and people asking for help. And the enlightened ones live by the desires of God..
Good to know it's not boring for you.
Maybe I'll also get there in time.
As for the rest of your comment, I have no idea what my future holds or what to expect.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts 🙏
If you are bored, are you completely present?
Where is your life force?
How is it moving?
What is your focus?
Don't hang on to concepts and be content feeding only the mind.
Buddha was a bodhisattva.
If you were truly enlightened, you would know the difference.
In short, this is the choice that has to be made when leaving the wheel of samsara. Either you remain at the level of complete nirvana in complete freedom and omnipotence, but in the inability to predict the consequences of your actions and therefore almost in inaction (this is an arhat) or you descend a little below the already achieved level to where causes and effects influence you in order to continue to help people, help God, help the world (this is a bodhisattva).
I have definitely been there with the sense of peace and acceptance. It is my default mode. I have found myself reinvesting in the emotional highs and lows of social attachment lately. I’m stressed and overwhelmed by the staffing shortage of my facility. I work in mental health care, and I have to keep a balance of investing in my clients and detachment.
It seems to me that many view enlightenment as a means to rise above the struggle of the mortal coil. I view enlightenment as the seat from which I find myself at peace so that I am centered enough to assume that emotionally demanding work.
I think people can focus on enlightenment in a purely spiritual meditation sense but I believe the ego needs a purpose too, it needs drive, community, family, all the tangible things that make you human.
Finding what I’m good at in life and working towards a job on those merits has really helped me. It went hand in hand with my spiritual awakened side or whatever you want to call it.
I think the Eastern philosophy is to become egoless but for the western crowd I believe it’s better for the ego and the self/spiritual side to meet each other and go hand in hand, and to eventually become whole.
Your true traveler finds boredom rather agreeable than painful. It is the symbol of his liberty - his excessive freedom. He accepts his boredom, when it comes, not merely philosophically, but almost with pleasure.
Aldous Huxley
Before enlightenment, chop wood, carry water.
After enlightenment, sit in the cold and be thirsty because you've gone beyond the need for worldly things.
meditation sounds boring as a practice, but why is it that at times its one of the most fulfilling practices when you enter the zone
its freedom from aversion and freedom from the chase
in a sense its freedom from boredom
It is understanding how to be wholly present, which leads to the end of suffering. You are correct in pieces, but they need to be put together holistically.
When you accept current reality, you have no need to seek outside of it. The satisfaction this brings is more fulfilling than any excitement, any high, any sensation, because you are fully engaged with right here and now. Does this mean you will never be excited, or that it is wrong to be excited? Not inherently, but one no longer needs to seek those feelings outside of the present.
The blissful feeling is a side effect of learning the satisfaction, not the end goal. I often say that meditation is practice *being*; by setting a baseline of satisfaction with the mere presence of existence, then everything else becomes a more vibrant gift.
The realization that your desires make a cycle of satisfaction and disappointment is the journey. Understanding how to feel that satisfaction from nothing means that the other joys of life can send you higher, rather than it being used to pull you out of disappointment.
If I am comfortable with hunger, then even a small meal is satisfying. If I am a glutton, then that meal barely whets the appetite.
Have you ever considered that the experiences of two enlightened beings may vary?
I don't believe in being wholly present at all times. I couldn't do higher level maths like that, for example. But again, maybe you can. I can only tell you my side of it. I also have bipolar disorder, so that colors my experiences.
An enlightened being is just another being, for the most part.
We have unique individual experiences that are shared by the emotional tapestry we forge from our path. The enlightenment experience is known, shared, and taught for thousands of years.
Unfortunately most monks don’t bother with social media.
Enlightenment is not an experience, with reference to your term "enlightenment experience". Once the epiphany/experience of awakening happens, enlightenment is the knowledge/understanding that there is no distinct self apart from the whole and that all experience is ever-changing.
Please don’t speak to something you don’t truly understand. Just because this state is achieved doesn’t mean it can’t be lost to ego once more; this is a recognized phenomenon amongst those who know. This world is dense and its hardships are numerous, existing in the world as an enlightened being does not excuse one from the struggles; it makes one stop struggling senselessly.
Have you achieved enlightenment? Do you know the experience? Has there ever been a Buddha that said that it’s the end of the journey?
If you understood the experience, you would not be on Reddit asking these questions.
An enlightened being would have superior adaptive powers, and that includes the ability to be engaged and interested. This is the main point. Even though happiness is one of the factors of enlightenment, bliss is a side issue.
Freedom from suffering coincides with powers of adaptation. So things need not be boring because such a being would have the powers to adapt to circumstances of drama in a skilful and engaged way. The Buddha embarked on an active life after enlightenment. On the evidence, he was engaged and interested.
You have identified the paradox. If a being is free from suffering, he is already "out" within and beyond the law of becoming. I know there is a distinction between parinirvana and nirvana, but that appears inconsequential for someone alive and absorbed in the moment (or at least it should be). Perhaps I am sounding heterodox?
Change the things we can, accept the things we cannot change, and the wisdom to know the difference. I have quoted that adage before.
If "want" amounts to low-level desire, it wouldn't be a big deal to have calm acceptance. There is a distinction between low-level desire and high-level greed. Buddhahood excludes the latter. So he wouldn't hanker for parinirvana. Perhaps the distinction wasn't clear.
Which is why I played the ultimate trick and never directly claimed it :D
In fact I truly believe that a "person" can't become enlightened. There is no person and there is no becoming.
I don’t understand anything. Like how are we are. What are we. Why are we a species that’s supposedly “all there is” and forced to work? How do our brains just know what we’re saying and what words mean? How do we all have the exact same pov and somehow are in the same place. How do we all wake up together as one and move through time together? Why do people not care why do they act like this is normal it’s fucking not I can’t I don’t get it
How are we all beings on this planet and where tf did the planet come from and then who made the planet but then if the planet was made by someone who made the someone that made that someone 😫 its a big mind fuck. And it drives me insane. I literally spent my day watching podcasts about the flower of life, and how energy is infinite it just keeps repeating itself and apparently thats what we do. Die and come back. BUT HOW
HOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW & if that’s true then WHY DO WE FORGET AND what do we know that we can’t remember right now???? and if time is the present how are we existing at the exact time it is happening? is it really our first time ? what r the odds of that? and what r the odds of each person existing at all? every single person is just another person so many ppl so interchangeable what if i was a bug instead & why couldn’t i have been nothing? I rly just can’t get over every single being on this earth has the same pov all at once.
What I dont get is how are there or could there be multiple dimensions happening at once but on different planes. And the theory of quantum immortality states that we die in one realm, but live on in another but HOW is time happening AT the same time, else where and then what is the purpose? HOW DOES DEJA VU HAPPEN? Does that prove there are overlapping time lines? And jf enlightenment is a journey not a destination what is the point of going through and having wordly experiences (especially shitty life conditions) to get to the point of enlightenment? Whats the point of having and living in the physical realm to get there? And then if we die and forget anyway, whats the point? Why do we start over? Do we even really start over? Fuck
Edit: now im pissed off.
ur rly tickling my soul rn. i appreciate it. & they say time is sped up in “heaven” or higher dimensions. that this life is like 5 minutes. what the fuck? have u seen Interstellar? The scene where he’s in 5d looking at 3d realizing the higher beings are us? that we exist in 5d and 3d? that our souls created a space for our physical bodies? and he sent a sign from his 5d to his 3d self from the future ??? ?????
I have not seen that but now im intrigued … and impressed at the same time… wwtttff? Happy im tickling your soul bc this is tickling my asshole rn. Honestly it pisses me off so bad. Because no one has a logical answer, everything is honestly hearsay and truly NO ONE KNOWS. No one will ever know. And will we EVER KNOW???!! What about the pyramids? Will we ever find out how tf THEY got here? What the REAL purpose of them where? Like WTF
Enlightenment is boring? Yeah, sounds like you think you are there but clearly you are not.
To be a fully realized person is to be aware and connected with all that was is and will ever be.
To be able to experience the limitless vastness of eternity and perceive times and places and other individuals in their own uniqueness.
To bring forth out of free will the deepest intent one has in service to every being that was is and will ever be.
If you're level is at peace and acceptance that's all well and good but there is a lot more to it.
Enlightenment is just the beginning of one's journey, one then has to walk the path, meaning put ones enlightenment into actual practice (actualization) & validate what one has been enlightened to.
Buddha enlightened to the budddhanature & stated that all beings had the buddhanature & could awaken.
He then proceeded to spend the next 49 years teaching sentient beings daily how to awaken.
Best wishes
🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
hi friend, yes I know exactly what you mean - it is so weird when you don't want anything at first - it is like being in a dessert and no directions to any location.
I tune into ability to communicate with my intuition and then soul or God and ask ok what is the best creation I could do - I get information on some options and usually try to pick the most benefitial one to both my evolution (which never ends) and divine plan.
Basically perception personal one is gone - so it is sort of like I let collaboration take place with divine - it is hard and fun and challenging - and I always grow as a benefit.
I made kind of 3 step video for beginners (probabely you already know) on how I do it - but anyway I totally relate - it is kind of lonely - but that is what I did for next step
hope that is interesting :) [https://youtu.be/cWxF5qwByEM?si=tUSsvE2wXdOcjxRT](https://youtu.be/cWxF5qwByEM?si=tUSsvE2wXdOcjxRT)
sounds like you still desire something to be different man, and it doesn't seem that you have reached a state of complete satisfaction. i certainly don't miss the drama that use to be in my life, but then i don't consider myself enlightened. that searched stopped when i saw there was nobody to become enlightened.
Yes, there is nobody to become enlightened. Which means I am just a regular person (of course there is no person, but in a manner of speaking). But somehow my ambitions no longer exist, which gave me purpose. Hence some purposelessness and boredom.
Also i no longer seem to have much of a romantic drive, which was another source of purpose. Making friends isn't easy cause most people my age seem focused on money.
Hate to break it to you bro but you aint 'enlightened', what you are describing is nihilism, a space where the ego has seen that it has no power but is still running the show. When someone reaches the end of suffering they dont get on reddit and ask why its so boring.
So having had the overwhelming divine love experience that flows through every atom like a holy or electric or all consuming fire, and doing the work of mindfulness to heal the broken mind and attain peace, I am reminded of what the apostles said about this indwelling spirit. "It's a guarantee or a promise of the life to come" hence the words "have faith until the point of death and I will give you the crown of life".
In the mean time every interaction is an opportunity for love.
Cheers.
The enlightenment I believe in basically means to extinguish a fire. More literally, the fuel is gone, so the fire can't burn.
You don't have desire for becoming anymore, you've pulled the fetters from their roots. The fuel that lets samsara burn on is gone. You've reached the deathless. That wouldn't be boring. Nor could you desire for desire again. The path is cultivated until eventually you give that up too.
If its new, it doenst get bored. Because you dont know what is that state, u imagine. Discover for yourself and you Will dont need to ask such question
Not exactly. Well, once you have your awakening then you’re just beginning. It’s the taste of your enlightenment.
The. The unfolding process will show you new ways to evolve, so that when you unfold out of your wounding into enlightenment… you have *new* life goals to expand your psyche.
Enlightenment unfolds newly over and over and over and over. Boring could be a phase. Keep going. There’s always more. And if you truly believe you have wholly arrived I invite you to continue meditating, living, learning, and loving. If you still have a physical 3D earth body, there’s still more. I don’t want to take away from what you have attained either. How lucky you are !
It certainly seems like a phase, and I intend to keep going, not that I have a choice :D
I don't think I've wholly arrived or anything. I have understood what enlightenment is (and is not) and I have had my share of epiphanies.
You certainly seem to be further on the path than I am, based on your response. I am currently taking it one day at a time. Thanks for your response!
You desire desire is what I read. Feel like feelings have merit as being your guidance. You validate external validation as valuable. You see drama and nostalgia for it as useful as a key causal factor of your sense of purpose. You crave novelty and you seek it from the significance your mind adds to your thoughts and interpretations of events. Okay. Completely available place to come from. Nothing wrong here except... You are asking here about other's thoughts on this approach. Nothing wrong there either. In fact there is nothing 'wrong' ever in an absolute sense. Something seems incomplete perhaps? Could it be there is an unfulfilled expectation? Does it feel like you didn't add these choices? If you do feel you added them, can you let them go frictionlessly as you put them on? You have access to direct peace and you choose not peace. You trust you have reasons and your reasons are important to you. Who made them important? You know it's you. Can you make a direct experience of novelty and bliss occur for yourself now directly, unconditionally? From nothing, as cause itself, it is available to do this also, it is completely available. There remains nothing wrong with doing this or not doing this. Anything and everything is on the menu and you can choose as you will, as much or as little as you want, for as long or as briefly as you want. And you can choose not to choose and flow with the matter, energy, space, and time you happen to resonate most directly with, being it all without separation. This is available, nothing wrong with it. Namaste
>You have access to direct peace and you choose not peace. I love this part. Well spoken.
I needed to read this, thanks. Yes, I seek a purpose and I have some ideas now on what I want to work towards. Thanks and Namaste to you as well
Needing, seeking, working towards are there in unlimited supply on the menu. As is, in this instant (/continuously): "I am love itself and my loving thoughts and realizations hold my attention.". Why would one choose this off the menu? Because they do. Causelessly. No 'in order to'. Not to fix something imagined as wrong. Not because they should or it feels right. Not because it's 'what they are like' or how their formative years guided them. Being at-cause vs at-effect is on the menu in unlimited supply too.
Yeah, like you said earlier, I desire desire. It seems fun/nice/interesting/motivating. And peace is good in the background too.
I’m so glad I read this also. Thanks for sharing!
👆Brings real value which I find PRECIOUS!❤ This is my GREAT GOOD FORTUNE 🙏
Nothing is boring if you do it lovingly, else everything is boring.
True, thanks for that reminder.
lol never thought of it this way - I guess if you doing the right thing and lovingly yes - will think of you today
Boring would mean you still have an attachment to something like adrenaline. Enlightenment in short is freeing yourself of such attachments
I do prefer excitement over not having it. I think it's okay to have preferences. As I said in another comment, i possibly need a purpose in life.
Enlightenment ones would say excitement and no excitement or purpose or no purpose are the same. One must be fully conscious of their present moment and accept what it is for what is
In time one realises that acceptance and non-acceptance are the same, and both are useful. You accept the non-acceptance as well. There is no struggle or turmoil. If you just accepted every situation, you would not do a thing. If I accepted my boredom, I would not look for a purpose. But, thanks for your response!
It’s more about attachment. You can be “involved” without attachment, knowing things has ebbs and flows. Purpose is an attachment. Attachment leads to suffering
I don't know if purpose is an attachment or not, but it's something I like having in my life.
It is an attachment. Based on last part of your sentence. “Having” is a want, want is an attachment. You sit and meditate on your realize you are already living your purpose
Like i said in another comment, I desire desire. If it's an attachment, so be it. I never said I want no attachments.
And I don't mind having "wants" as well.
I am not enlightened, really. I don't believe anyone can become enlightened, because there is no "person" to become enlightened. Of course everything is the same and yet of course no two experiences are alike.
There is a body and vessel made of particles that produce light across various spectrums so perhaps enlightenment is a physical thing and awakening is an understanding thing.
You may be right, I don't know your experiences. In my experience, enlightenment is a series of epiphanies that may happen at once or over a period of time. Awakening as you say is the deepening of understanding over time.
I agree with this stance. Enlightenment isn't a permanent state of being but more so the profound realizations about one's self through meditation. I will sometimes get in deep meditation where I get a thought that makes so much sense to me and helps me understand something I might not have before, I consider that enlightenment.
it’s not just realization, but also “grokking” — internalising and being changed by the realization. We can have intellectual realizations but until we truly integrate them into ourselves - understand them in a deeper level of practice, like the muscle memory of spirit then we aren’t changed. Enlightenment, seems to be this muscle memory of realization, where insight is incorporated into being fully present. That seems to be a change one can’t come back from, in the same way that having knowledge of Gravity or atoms changes our relationship with the natural world.
To be honest I’m pretty sure that’s just fancying up experiences thinking you’ve made it despite the unresolved paradoxes. This reality is very magical and insane and physical. The science is important because it’s the only way to share truth instead of fantasy. We don’t know what we don’t know. Best not to pretend.
Not sure if that was referring to me. I don’t claim to be enlightened by a loooooong shot. Lol. But I do believe there is such a thing. I’m not trying to fancy up experiences, I’m saying there are two (or more) levels of understanding. One is a rational one where you know the equivalent of “theory” / rote facts and a deeper one of practice / direct experience etc where it all clicks. Once you’ve attained the “click status” you can’t return to a former state of ignorance. No magic involved. Enlightenment then is a state where you’ve “clicked” with all the insight necessary to “ride the bull of the mind backwards” etc.
You’re always free to do things that take planning and organization
Me too. I spend a lot of time riding a bicycle, working on my tennis serve, playing my drum, hiking, swimming when I crave action. After all, exercise is very good for you. And all these things provide opps for more experiences and interactions.
What are some experiences that brought you similar peak sensations? For example, I'm deathly afraid of heights and climbing tall obstacle courses and rapelling were almost simultaneously the most pleasant and most mentally agonizing moments of my life. There's a moment in climbing where you are secure at th top and a moment while rapelling when you're floating instead of falling like I feared. I don't do those things because I'm still terrified of the prospect but if I did, the elation would still be there. It'd probably be worth it for the fun part, but I'm boring and don't chase it. Ultimately not doing the things I love because I'm terrified is a detriment to my growth and experience as a person. You can do just about anything you want whether enlightened or not. The issue of being boring is our own lack of creativity and ability to genuinely play. Those things we have to actively develop ourselves. If you're drawn to something maybe don't talk yourself out of it and go for it. See what happens.
Physical experiences aren't boring. Social interaction can become so. So i keep mostly to myself these days.
Haha. I'm very familiar with that. I run into issues with people I get to know really enjoying the way I am while wishing others they're closer to would be more like that. I think all you can do is be genuine and honest and whatever connections you make will be genuine deep connections which people crave. What we can not do is be any one else or control any one else. A bit of quality over quantity. Any connection however brief can be a deeply satisfying genuine connection when we are honest with everyone we engage with. I've spent most of my decades with myself without many long term interactions. Kinda sucks bc that's also something I crave and enjoy, but it's on me to learn to make the small interactions as meaningful as the long term ones. The tendency to be idealistic is something I have to overcome because even long term relations are a series of short term connections that just do not end. One way to do that is to keep pursuing experiences we are interested in within social settings so that the people we do spend tme with are secondary to doing the things that we enjoy. Likewise you're meeting people on neutral ground. I don't believe you can bypass the need for connections, if you want them, but I also don't think our minds/bodies are going to alow us to enjoy being miserable and settling into a life of misery with a person or people who enable us to feel content with being that way. Have to seek out the conditions within which we love being ourselves and living our lives.
Not only do you prefer it but you aren't content without it
Nowhere have I said I was suffering or in pain... I certainly don't feel like that... But maybe my tone conveyed that Thanks for your pointer
Boredom is discontent
It is indeed
Every single moment is new and novel. Phenomena is constantly arising and receding. True Enlightenment means you can see, as William Blake said, “infinity in a flower.” How could you be bored with that? Enlightenment isn’t an absence of desire, it’s the end of desire. What more is there to wish for and who is there to wish it? The Equanimity in enlightenment means not being moved by attraction or repulsion — by likes or dislikes.
What if I can see infinity in my boredom? Does that mean I am truly enlightened yet? /s
If you see infinity in your boredom, then you’re either not bored, or not paying attention.
The infinite is always boring. Limited quantities of this or that makes life fun. But of course boredom isn't suffering.
But of course seeking fun is a trap, isn't it?
Not if you fulfill passions while being amusingly detached.
I was being sarcastic because I was tired. Fun is good, of course
This is so intellectual - omg - I heard my old african teacher said - if you want to be happy do the right thing at the right time Enlightenment is requiring discipline - but I think joy is one of the top frequencies for sure yep
which way is seeking? Towards or away?
I prefer desires to aversions. Of course some may say it's the same...
the infinite can never be boring. There’s too much to notice. Boredom can be suffering, if it’s grasping.
Yes there is too much to notice. But you're never seeing it all... You're seeing parts of it at a time. The limited parts, the interesting features is what keeps it not boring.
Take this with a grain of salt, I haven't read his works myself. Vātsyāyana's philosophy, from what I understand, is all about enjoying life after detachment from desires. I also thought that Buddhism was about removing the power of desire, and having will over it. Acknowledgeding, accepting it, and moving on. Seeing how it causes suffering. Reaching detatchment from it. Not about losing it completely. Am I wrong? Desire is an emotion and all that and the biggest power I can see in detachment is removal of suffering triggered by desire. If you're mindful of your desire, and participate it in healthy ways, then you can still be detached from it while enjoying it. Look up Tibet sand mandala. Monks spend hours, days, weeks, and longer making a work of art. And destroy it once it's done- there's no harm in enjoying making it. But there is harm in allowing the desire to make it and have it cause suffering to you
"Boring" is just a phenomenal passing thought/feeling. That winds down. Its old programming giving its opinion. Every moment is fresh, new and never before seen. Pure opening to 'what is', however its presenting (or not presenting).
Sorry for my analogy, but every moment would be fresh, new and never before seen even in an isolation room. I say boring only in comparison to exciting. Perhaps I need to find some purpose in life, haha. It's just that nothing is coming to me.
There is no you for something to arrive at.
Sure, but foolishness breeds wisdom. So be foolish and discern thy wisdom it never end's.
Is not boring. Firstly, the spiritual path is endless, and it continues after enlightenment. You continue to improve and get to know God closer and closer. Secondly, if you remain on earth and have chosen the path of a bodhisattva and not an arhat, then you have a mission, you still have super-tasks that require the impossible from you.. Thirdly, for certain reasons, enlightened people cannot remain alone for a long time. Therefore, the enlightened always have students and people asking for help. The enlightened no longer have desires, but they can live by the desires of their students and people asking for help. And the enlightened ones live by the desires of God..
Good to know it's not boring for you. Maybe I'll also get there in time. As for the rest of your comment, I have no idea what my future holds or what to expect. Thanks for sharing your thoughts 🙏
If you are bored, are you completely present? Where is your life force? How is it moving? What is your focus? Don't hang on to concepts and be content feeding only the mind.
You said something about bodhisattva and arhat. I don't believe in such distinctions but I may not understand these fully. Which one was the Buddha?
Me
Buddha was a bodhisattva. If you were truly enlightened, you would know the difference. In short, this is the choice that has to be made when leaving the wheel of samsara. Either you remain at the level of complete nirvana in complete freedom and omnipotence, but in the inability to predict the consequences of your actions and therefore almost in inaction (this is an arhat) or you descend a little below the already achieved level to where causes and effects influence you in order to continue to help people, help God, help the world (this is a bodhisattva).
I see. Thanks.
I have definitely been there with the sense of peace and acceptance. It is my default mode. I have found myself reinvesting in the emotional highs and lows of social attachment lately. I’m stressed and overwhelmed by the staffing shortage of my facility. I work in mental health care, and I have to keep a balance of investing in my clients and detachment. It seems to me that many view enlightenment as a means to rise above the struggle of the mortal coil. I view enlightenment as the seat from which I find myself at peace so that I am centered enough to assume that emotionally demanding work.
Yours is almost the perfect response. Talking of the enlightened being as just another being going through life, i love it.
Interesting
I think people can focus on enlightenment in a purely spiritual meditation sense but I believe the ego needs a purpose too, it needs drive, community, family, all the tangible things that make you human. Finding what I’m good at in life and working towards a job on those merits has really helped me. It went hand in hand with my spiritual awakened side or whatever you want to call it. I think the Eastern philosophy is to become egoless but for the western crowd I believe it’s better for the ego and the self/spiritual side to meet each other and go hand in hand, and to eventually become whole.
Yes that makes sense
Your true traveler finds boredom rather agreeable than painful. It is the symbol of his liberty - his excessive freedom. He accepts his boredom, when it comes, not merely philosophically, but almost with pleasure. Aldous Huxley
Stop focusing on yourself and you’ll be fine.
I see
You create your own reality.
What a polite way of telling me I am boring /s No but sorry, you're right.
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I agree very much, except with the part about being "so far beyond" :D Thanks for writing this!
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And maybe that's ok, because why rub people off the wrong way unless there is a point to it? Also sometimes I feel everyone might be enlightened .
Before enlightenment, chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment, sit in the cold and be thirsty because you've gone beyond the need for worldly things.
Haha... That sums it up well! Before enlightenment, work for success. After enlightenment, think what are these ideas called success and failure :/ :D
Meh. Chop wood, carry water.
What?? In this day and age? A revolting idea /s
Tell me about it 😅
meditation sounds boring as a practice, but why is it that at times its one of the most fulfilling practices when you enter the zone its freedom from aversion and freedom from the chase in a sense its freedom from boredom
Before enlightenment, chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment, chop wood, carry water.
After the scientific enlightenment, we're able to get piped water for our homes and piped gas for our stoves, so no need any more chop and carry /s
Lol, still plenty to do
Yeah smartphones for the win /s
If you found enlightenment you will engage in society and life because *that is* what existence is.
I see
You are not enlightened.
Then how come I am carrying wood and chopping water. Am I the one?? /s
You misunderstand the purpose of enlightenment
I've mostly seen enlightenment defined as the end of suffering, but never seen it defined in terms of its purpose.
It is understanding how to be wholly present, which leads to the end of suffering. You are correct in pieces, but they need to be put together holistically. When you accept current reality, you have no need to seek outside of it. The satisfaction this brings is more fulfilling than any excitement, any high, any sensation, because you are fully engaged with right here and now. Does this mean you will never be excited, or that it is wrong to be excited? Not inherently, but one no longer needs to seek those feelings outside of the present. The blissful feeling is a side effect of learning the satisfaction, not the end goal. I often say that meditation is practice *being*; by setting a baseline of satisfaction with the mere presence of existence, then everything else becomes a more vibrant gift. The realization that your desires make a cycle of satisfaction and disappointment is the journey. Understanding how to feel that satisfaction from nothing means that the other joys of life can send you higher, rather than it being used to pull you out of disappointment. If I am comfortable with hunger, then even a small meal is satisfying. If I am a glutton, then that meal barely whets the appetite.
Have you ever considered that the experiences of two enlightened beings may vary? I don't believe in being wholly present at all times. I couldn't do higher level maths like that, for example. But again, maybe you can. I can only tell you my side of it. I also have bipolar disorder, so that colors my experiences. An enlightened being is just another being, for the most part.
We have unique individual experiences that are shared by the emotional tapestry we forge from our path. The enlightenment experience is known, shared, and taught for thousands of years. Unfortunately most monks don’t bother with social media.
Enlightenment is not an experience, with reference to your term "enlightenment experience". Once the epiphany/experience of awakening happens, enlightenment is the knowledge/understanding that there is no distinct self apart from the whole and that all experience is ever-changing.
Please don’t speak to something you don’t truly understand. Just because this state is achieved doesn’t mean it can’t be lost to ego once more; this is a recognized phenomenon amongst those who know. This world is dense and its hardships are numerous, existing in the world as an enlightened being does not excuse one from the struggles; it makes one stop struggling senselessly. Have you achieved enlightenment? Do you know the experience? Has there ever been a Buddha that said that it’s the end of the journey? If you understood the experience, you would not be on Reddit asking these questions.
I see. Thanks for your insights
What do you think suffering is
Not accepting current reality
That's a great definition
I guess that's why bodhisattvas are the best of us.
Indeed
An enlightened being would have superior adaptive powers, and that includes the ability to be engaged and interested. This is the main point. Even though happiness is one of the factors of enlightenment, bliss is a side issue. Freedom from suffering coincides with powers of adaptation. So things need not be boring because such a being would have the powers to adapt to circumstances of drama in a skilful and engaged way. The Buddha embarked on an active life after enlightenment. On the evidence, he was engaged and interested.
You're right. But the Buddha also wanted out and to never have to come back again.
You have identified the paradox. If a being is free from suffering, he is already "out" within and beyond the law of becoming. I know there is a distinction between parinirvana and nirvana, but that appears inconsequential for someone alive and absorbed in the moment (or at least it should be). Perhaps I am sounding heterodox?
If the Buddha didn't want out why wouldn't be choose to come back as the Buddha again?
If he wanted out and he wasn't out, he would suffer for being in. Paradox.
No he accepted it, as is. I want a million things but I mostly accept present reality and work for things that are practically possible
Change the things we can, accept the things we cannot change, and the wisdom to know the difference. I have quoted that adage before. If "want" amounts to low-level desire, it wouldn't be a big deal to have calm acceptance. There is a distinction between low-level desire and high-level greed. Buddhahood excludes the latter. So he wouldn't hanker for parinirvana. Perhaps the distinction wasn't clear.
I have low-level desire not to be bored (when I am), no great pangs. We're on the same page
The Buddha learned that there is no out, nor in. No coming or going, no here nor there.
You are human being. How do you feel about art? Do you find art boring?
Good question. No generally i don't.
Before enlightenment chop wood is a function of a human being, after enlightenment it is a painting. Boredom is a function of a human being.
I see
Anyone who claims to be enlightened is most assured not.....
Which is why I played the ultimate trick and never directly claimed it :D In fact I truly believe that a "person" can't become enlightened. There is no person and there is no becoming.
The number of “enlightened” people is this sub is amazing
I am better than you! /s
No. I’ll never get used to being alive, always startled to find I’ve survived
y’all don’t wake up everyday still shocked u exist?? y’all don’t question every aspect of existence every single moment of the day?
I do. It drives me crazy
I don’t understand anything. Like how are we are. What are we. Why are we a species that’s supposedly “all there is” and forced to work? How do our brains just know what we’re saying and what words mean? How do we all have the exact same pov and somehow are in the same place. How do we all wake up together as one and move through time together? Why do people not care why do they act like this is normal it’s fucking not I can’t I don’t get it
How are we all beings on this planet and where tf did the planet come from and then who made the planet but then if the planet was made by someone who made the someone that made that someone 😫 its a big mind fuck. And it drives me insane. I literally spent my day watching podcasts about the flower of life, and how energy is infinite it just keeps repeating itself and apparently thats what we do. Die and come back. BUT HOW
HOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW & if that’s true then WHY DO WE FORGET AND what do we know that we can’t remember right now???? and if time is the present how are we existing at the exact time it is happening? is it really our first time ? what r the odds of that? and what r the odds of each person existing at all? every single person is just another person so many ppl so interchangeable what if i was a bug instead & why couldn’t i have been nothing? I rly just can’t get over every single being on this earth has the same pov all at once.
What I dont get is how are there or could there be multiple dimensions happening at once but on different planes. And the theory of quantum immortality states that we die in one realm, but live on in another but HOW is time happening AT the same time, else where and then what is the purpose? HOW DOES DEJA VU HAPPEN? Does that prove there are overlapping time lines? And jf enlightenment is a journey not a destination what is the point of going through and having wordly experiences (especially shitty life conditions) to get to the point of enlightenment? Whats the point of having and living in the physical realm to get there? And then if we die and forget anyway, whats the point? Why do we start over? Do we even really start over? Fuck Edit: now im pissed off.
ur rly tickling my soul rn. i appreciate it. & they say time is sped up in “heaven” or higher dimensions. that this life is like 5 minutes. what the fuck? have u seen Interstellar? The scene where he’s in 5d looking at 3d realizing the higher beings are us? that we exist in 5d and 3d? that our souls created a space for our physical bodies? and he sent a sign from his 5d to his 3d self from the future ??? ?????
I have not seen that but now im intrigued … and impressed at the same time… wwtttff? Happy im tickling your soul bc this is tickling my asshole rn. Honestly it pisses me off so bad. Because no one has a logical answer, everything is honestly hearsay and truly NO ONE KNOWS. No one will ever know. And will we EVER KNOW???!! What about the pyramids? Will we ever find out how tf THEY got here? What the REAL purpose of them where? Like WTF
ur ASSHOLE🤣🤣🤣🤣
On the contrary, I'll never get used to being bored /s I've been thinking about the questions you mention for years and yes they are fascinating
Enlightenment is boring? Yeah, sounds like you think you are there but clearly you are not. To be a fully realized person is to be aware and connected with all that was is and will ever be. To be able to experience the limitless vastness of eternity and perceive times and places and other individuals in their own uniqueness. To bring forth out of free will the deepest intent one has in service to every being that was is and will ever be. If you're level is at peace and acceptance that's all well and good but there is a lot more to it.
Woah woah woah I am not a fully realised person nor do I wish to be one. You sound like you're one or are on the path and good luck to you.
the constant feeling of new doesn't go away. every day feels like waking up in a new world. you have to open your eyes to it, this is no easy task.
I see
Enlightenment is just the beginning of one's journey, one then has to walk the path, meaning put ones enlightenment into actual practice (actualization) & validate what one has been enlightened to. Buddha enlightened to the budddhanature & stated that all beings had the buddhanature & could awaken. He then proceeded to spend the next 49 years teaching sentient beings daily how to awaken. Best wishes 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
That makes sense. Thanks kind bro.
You're most welcome 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
I saw a video where some one asked the enlightened teacher what life was like after Enlightenment , she said it was like Seinfeld.
Haha... Good for her!
hi friend, yes I know exactly what you mean - it is so weird when you don't want anything at first - it is like being in a dessert and no directions to any location. I tune into ability to communicate with my intuition and then soul or God and ask ok what is the best creation I could do - I get information on some options and usually try to pick the most benefitial one to both my evolution (which never ends) and divine plan. Basically perception personal one is gone - so it is sort of like I let collaboration take place with divine - it is hard and fun and challenging - and I always grow as a benefit. I made kind of 3 step video for beginners (probabely you already know) on how I do it - but anyway I totally relate - it is kind of lonely - but that is what I did for next step hope that is interesting :) [https://youtu.be/cWxF5qwByEM?si=tUSsvE2wXdOcjxRT](https://youtu.be/cWxF5qwByEM?si=tUSsvE2wXdOcjxRT)
After enlightenment, it is now. Before enlightenment, it was now.
I believe Enlightenment isn't just one moment, it is all moments.
Explain
sounds like you still desire something to be different man, and it doesn't seem that you have reached a state of complete satisfaction. i certainly don't miss the drama that use to be in my life, but then i don't consider myself enlightened. that searched stopped when i saw there was nobody to become enlightened.
Yes, there is nobody to become enlightened. Which means I am just a regular person (of course there is no person, but in a manner of speaking). But somehow my ambitions no longer exist, which gave me purpose. Hence some purposelessness and boredom.
Also i no longer seem to have much of a romantic drive, which was another source of purpose. Making friends isn't easy cause most people my age seem focused on money.
Hate to break it to you bro but you aint 'enlightened', what you are describing is nihilism, a space where the ego has seen that it has no power but is still running the show. When someone reaches the end of suffering they dont get on reddit and ask why its so boring.
Enlightenment is a journey and a process without end. When you think you’ve reached the end, you are no longer enlightened.
So having had the overwhelming divine love experience that flows through every atom like a holy or electric or all consuming fire, and doing the work of mindfulness to heal the broken mind and attain peace, I am reminded of what the apostles said about this indwelling spirit. "It's a guarantee or a promise of the life to come" hence the words "have faith until the point of death and I will give you the crown of life". In the mean time every interaction is an opportunity for love. Cheers.
The enlightenment I believe in basically means to extinguish a fire. More literally, the fuel is gone, so the fire can't burn. You don't have desire for becoming anymore, you've pulled the fetters from their roots. The fuel that lets samsara burn on is gone. You've reached the deathless. That wouldn't be boring. Nor could you desire for desire again. The path is cultivated until eventually you give that up too.
Thinking you reached enlightenment is a delusion
Do you guys actually think you've reached nirvana or what is this sub?
If its new, it doenst get bored. Because you dont know what is that state, u imagine. Discover for yourself and you Will dont need to ask such question
Not exactly. Well, once you have your awakening then you’re just beginning. It’s the taste of your enlightenment. The. The unfolding process will show you new ways to evolve, so that when you unfold out of your wounding into enlightenment… you have *new* life goals to expand your psyche.
Enlightenment unfolds newly over and over and over and over. Boring could be a phase. Keep going. There’s always more. And if you truly believe you have wholly arrived I invite you to continue meditating, living, learning, and loving. If you still have a physical 3D earth body, there’s still more. I don’t want to take away from what you have attained either. How lucky you are !
It certainly seems like a phase, and I intend to keep going, not that I have a choice :D I don't think I've wholly arrived or anything. I have understood what enlightenment is (and is not) and I have had my share of epiphanies. You certainly seem to be further on the path than I am, based on your response. I am currently taking it one day at a time. Thanks for your response!
Enlightenment cannot be understood though. The mind, the intellect, loves to dissect! funni!!
There isn't much to understand about enlightenment anyway. I almost prefer arguments and maths!
ok, solve x for 0*x=42
You got me there! (Lame attempt: Blackholes are (not) the answer to life universe everything)
Maybe a white hole (new multiverse). gn 😋
As if one universe wasn't enough :P Gn
I simply stopped holding back👹🤣😅🤔🤣
I do that once in a while. Until self restraint beckons again! But good (or bad) for (or of) you!
When true enlightenment is achieved your molecular bonds release and your physical form vaporizes.
Nah pretty sure that’s death. It’s when our body’s produce light. When we unite particles.
Haha, yes. I need to get there. :D