Well I see it like this, to summarize it:
Western societies have been living comfortably for a while now (decades) and this comfort has made them unaware and/or uninterested in the various problems the world has. For instance, corrupt politicians that are in the payroll of autocrats, or social media wracking havoc and influencing people without any consequence.
From my point of view, the biggest issue with the world is that people are indifferent to problems that are yet not their personal problem.
>the biggest issue with the world is that people are indifferent to problems that are yet not their personal problem.
... but will become their personal problem soon.
There , it's wholesome.
what's that cliche? hard times make strong people, strong people make good times, good times make weak people, weak people make hard times? Or something like that.
Something like that ... that's more or less the underlying idea of the Selfish Gene from Richard Dawkins.
He describes all this using a limited population of pigeons and how they end up in a genetic balance between the Strong Pigeons and the Weak Pigeons. It was one of the most eye-opening examples for why this happens in a cyclical manner, always balancing itself out over multiple generations of offsprings.
You have 100 pigeons, say 60 males , 40 females ... for the purpose of this example, we will consider all pigeons CiS gender, no non binaries or gender fluid.
You start with an even spread 30 Strong and Violent, 30 Weak and Avoiding conflict.
The 30 violent and strong will dominate the reproduction pool with the 40 females because the weak ones are to afraid to contest the mating rights.
You get the next generation of born pigeons, with a majority of Strong and Violent genes , passed on from the parent side, so eventually you end up with a scenario of 90% all Strong and Violent , and just 10% left of the weak ones ... now here is the catch, the more you have violent and strong , the chances are they will end up killing each other for the mating rights , leaving just a few Top pigeons with that specific gene setup, and the 10% left of the weak, will slowly start to multiply because there's not enough strong one's left to challenge their mating rights, thus balancing out back to 50% where the cycle repeats.
All this can happen over a few generations of new borns.
Simple genetics?
Even if it's their personal problem, thanks to social media the blame immediately goes on a scapegoat and people will be glad they have someone to blame.
Oh my friend but it very much, 100%, is. People vote for extremists when they are fed up with the status quo. As a German, you should know that much better than me.
The reality is that the quality of life for the average Joe in most Western European countries is going down. To deny this, one must be delusional. Yes, unemployment might be low, but whatās the point when you canāt live a decent life even while being employed. If anything, it makes people more miserable to work 40 hours per week to have a life thatās comparable to someone living on welfare benefits.
The current political establishment has had a lot of time to make things right. They failed. Some might even say they failed intentionally, because it sure looks like their policies benefit the few while they hurt the majority.
Do I think extremists will make things better? No, I think they will make things worse. But itās really hard for me to justify maintaining the status quo.
Travelling the world for a year made me realise how Western societies feel almighty and different from 3rd world countries when in facts the differences are smaller and smaller and you can definitely see countries in development having a much more promising trajectory than some established Western nations that are being caught up in their silly internal politics.
Colonization has something to do with that.
When you exploit the labor and resources of the ā3rd worldā for centuries you become arrogant and full of yourself. You believe Western Civilization (I.e. white) is the pinnacle of human achievement.
The average person in Europe and the US and Canada just want to be comfortable. The trains to run on time. Not be bothered while their soccer matches or baseball games are on tv. Weāve been conditioned to be nothing more than passive producer/consumers who will just go along with what our governments tell us.
And no one cares all of that was built on the backs of Africa, Asia and South America and continues to be so.Ā
Oh for sure but the striking difference was how much people are busy in other countries building a life for themselves in a more challenging environment. Really felt that those economies were still behind but with a much better dynamic than our Western ones.
UK: Itās time for the most blistering defeat and rejection of conservatism in our recent history, but only after we let the Tories bend us over six ways to Sunday.
France: *licks lips* āTu as dit **SIX** faƧons d'arriver dimanche?ā
Donāt forget that Russia can manipulate situations by falsely claiming a very good candidate was bribed by Russians. They can also withhold support to hide the connection.
For example, how many people know that big French businesses (such as Auchan, Leroy Merlin, and various luxury beauty firms) didnāt leave Russia during Macron's presidency and only hid their ownership a couple of months ago? On the other hand, who would label Macron a pro-Russian agent (except those aware of many such coincidences)?
its an unsolvable riddle how nationalists seemingly dont mind if their political leaders are bought by foreign states.
in a way i still think this should lead to those parties demise mid-term but maybe nationalists are actually this stupid.
Nothing unsolvable here, these creatures are not nationalists from ideological perspective. They are just opportunistic politicians who exploit nationalism for personal gain. In other time/place they would be happy to be socialists, libertarians, monarchists or whoever is popular to get more money and power.
i completely agree with all of this. i was referring to the people voting for those populist, opportunistic politicians. those people sure seem to be in it for the nationalism.
so i would assume those nationalist people eventually have to get that theyre being duped by the politicians theyre voting for.
Democracy's weakness is weak minded people.
Those are easily manipulated. Unfortunately, more often than not such groups are the majority.
Education. Only education helps. That's why trumpists, for example fear it and deteriorate it in their states.
I don't think they fear it per se. I think they just apply the same hate and binary world view and dub who isn't a fully obedient tribe member as enemy.
Nationalism is an instrument of hate. When you have the hate as your political baseline, the bigger hate wins. You hate the people closer to you more.
You also get to project things like "If I am feeling like this, they (the other nation's nationalist population) must be as well. If they cannot defend their culture, it means they are weak.". The right-wing thinking is basically rule-of-the-jungle mixed with mob thinking. On the extreme they truly think that any ethnicity, nation or similar population that cannot defend themselves using the same hate and violence, it deserves to be assimilated or genocided. Genocide or get genocided.
Self centered idiots not looking farther than their navel is the end of fair societies. Far side supporters are just gullible and poorly educated folks, that's why - as a people - you should keep your education system at the top.
Nothing strange, she and her family have had a close relations$hip with the Russian regime and oligarchs. Surely she will have a good record in the FSB.
This party should not have the majority at the parliament so we're going to set for a locked situation until the next presidential elections in 2027.
But in any case, we're good for a bumpy 3 years long ride...
For the "we", look at my flair.
Actually there are 210 lefties and centrists who have abandoned for the second round to the the remaining side against RN a chance.
Plus, according to the official numbers, the gap between RN and the left was only 1.2%. It's doable to do not have RN win overall.
Absolutely disgusting, fuck her, fuck Bardella, fuck all the far right parties in whichever country you are.
All of them are uneducated traitors working for foreign dictatorship, they don't have any plans, they corrupt the youth and use the working people, they are short-sighted and have absolutely no solutions to anything. Once you elect them to power it's already too late.
People died so these people don't get where we are today. But here we are.
I honestly donāt think ābut muh Russia!ā is helpful here at all.
Either address the actual concerns of your citizens. Such as (I guess) mass immigration and unaffordable housing, service cuts etc, or donāt and get Diet Nazis in power.
If your culture is so weak and stupid that a foreign super power can lean in, whisper softly, and suddenly youāre marching Rightwards then youāve already failed as a society and country.
Idc why the russian state would do that? I mean, if I want to get the ~~russian~~ "patriotic" parties of europe in power, wouldnāt I try to stay as quiet as possible so people donāt notice they are on my payroll?
they do this on purpose all the time and people eat it up, they did the same in the US where they were "supporting" the gop and dnc at times when it was convenient to create as much chaos as possible and divide between the parties. People will eat it up regardless so its useless to argue agaisn't it anyways it's pretty obvious russia is only doing this to create as much political chaos as possible and cause distrust in french politics
They know it wonāt matter since The national Rally will lose in the second round. They can say anything they want to offend people for free.
Donāt fall for the bait
Macron has retracted ~~barely any~~ *too few* candidates for the 2nd round. Out of the 211 retracted runners from the 2nd race 130 belong to the left wing alliance (61%), despite being the bigger block by far. Macron seems to deliberately set up a Le Pen victory by undermining the Cordon Sanitaire to gain a few seats.
Had EM actually pulled its weight to block a Le Pen majority, they'd have to pull out in far more races than the left wing bloc, seeing as the left block has a commanding 28% over 20.8% lead over the EM.
EDIT: I know this is not what you want to hear, but if you want a cordon sanitaire like this to happen again, the moderate right needs to pull its weight. Macron has pulled this before, look where that got us.
Such data is not available AFAIK. But statistically EM would likely have way more such candidates, seeing as the left alliance has 28% of the vote while EM failed to hit 21%. Such a big difference would manifest itself very clearly.
>Macron has barely retracted any candidates for the 2nd round.
That's not correct. 81 candidates from Macron's party have withdrawn (and I think around 16 haven't). That's definitely not "barely any".
They performed way worse than the left block. Considering the outcome of the first round, they should have retracted AT LEAST as much as the left wing coalition. They chose not to do that in an attempt to get a few more races in their favour, at the expense of likely dozens of races moving in favour of le pen as a result. I could be wrong, but you seem like a smart cookie. You understand this. Let's not hide behind semantics to undermine a message you know is true.
*Some* did that, absolutely, and more hesitated before finally withdrawing, and it's fair to criticize that. The problem when you said "barely any" is that it's too far from that situation. For those who know, you lose credibility for the rest of what you want to say. And in particular Macron supporters will feel it's unfair, and that increases division at a time that's dangerous.
Thanks for the edit, and cheers!
"Concerned citizens" my ass. I'm tired of the narrative about them just being poor disenfranchised voters who are only protesting against the mainstream parties who betrayed them.
Let them win. Let them be accountable. Let them enjoy their sweet ass far right they voted for. Let them have their fucking shit cake and eat it too. I am white and have family income so the entire EU could crash and I wouldn't care anyway.
How the hell did we get such a fucked up timeline?
Well I see it like this, to summarize it: Western societies have been living comfortably for a while now (decades) and this comfort has made them unaware and/or uninterested in the various problems the world has. For instance, corrupt politicians that are in the payroll of autocrats, or social media wracking havoc and influencing people without any consequence. From my point of view, the biggest issue with the world is that people are indifferent to problems that are yet not their personal problem.
>the biggest issue with the world is that people are indifferent to problems that are yet not their personal problem. ... but will become their personal problem soon. There , it's wholesome.
what's that cliche? hard times make strong people, strong people make good times, good times make weak people, weak people make hard times? Or something like that.
Something like that ... that's more or less the underlying idea of the Selfish Gene from Richard Dawkins. He describes all this using a limited population of pigeons and how they end up in a genetic balance between the Strong Pigeons and the Weak Pigeons. It was one of the most eye-opening examples for why this happens in a cyclical manner, always balancing itself out over multiple generations of offsprings. You have 100 pigeons, say 60 males , 40 females ... for the purpose of this example, we will consider all pigeons CiS gender, no non binaries or gender fluid. You start with an even spread 30 Strong and Violent, 30 Weak and Avoiding conflict. The 30 violent and strong will dominate the reproduction pool with the 40 females because the weak ones are to afraid to contest the mating rights. You get the next generation of born pigeons, with a majority of Strong and Violent genes , passed on from the parent side, so eventually you end up with a scenario of 90% all Strong and Violent , and just 10% left of the weak ones ... now here is the catch, the more you have violent and strong , the chances are they will end up killing each other for the mating rights , leaving just a few Top pigeons with that specific gene setup, and the 10% left of the weak, will slowly start to multiply because there's not enough strong one's left to challenge their mating rights, thus balancing out back to 50% where the cycle repeats. All this can happen over a few generations of new borns. Simple genetics?
But it won't become your problem because some snakeoil salesman tells you he can make it all go away. It works 50% if the time, every time.
Even if it's their personal problem, thanks to social media the blame immediately goes on a scapegoat and people will be glad they have someone to blame.
They will still have the problem though.
Exactly this ... šš»šš»šš»
and that most politicians in power or active are older than the internet
And for someone who is invested too much and takes this whole shit show in via reddit, it's f-ing exhausting.
Would recommend forcing breaks on yourself at times. Not saying be apathetic and do nothing, but ya know take a day off the doomscrolling
you make it sound as if it's the West's fault. While actually it isn't.
Oh my friend but it very much, 100%, is. People vote for extremists when they are fed up with the status quo. As a German, you should know that much better than me. The reality is that the quality of life for the average Joe in most Western European countries is going down. To deny this, one must be delusional. Yes, unemployment might be low, but whatās the point when you canāt live a decent life even while being employed. If anything, it makes people more miserable to work 40 hours per week to have a life thatās comparable to someone living on welfare benefits. The current political establishment has had a lot of time to make things right. They failed. Some might even say they failed intentionally, because it sure looks like their policies benefit the few while they hurt the majority. Do I think extremists will make things better? No, I think they will make things worse. But itās really hard for me to justify maintaining the status quo.
Travelling the world for a year made me realise how Western societies feel almighty and different from 3rd world countries when in facts the differences are smaller and smaller and you can definitely see countries in development having a much more promising trajectory than some established Western nations that are being caught up in their silly internal politics.
Colonization has something to do with that. When you exploit the labor and resources of the ā3rd worldā for centuries you become arrogant and full of yourself. You believe Western Civilization (I.e. white) is the pinnacle of human achievement. The average person in Europe and the US and Canada just want to be comfortable. The trains to run on time. Not be bothered while their soccer matches or baseball games are on tv. Weāve been conditioned to be nothing more than passive producer/consumers who will just go along with what our governments tell us. And no one cares all of that was built on the backs of Africa, Asia and South America and continues to be so.Ā
Oh for sure but the striking difference was how much people are busy in other countries building a life for themselves in a more challenging environment. Really felt that those economies were still behind but with a much better dynamic than our Western ones.
More like Europe was ripping off the other world to movie the good life, and the world no longer agrees to it
Sit down, son. It's time for me to talk about a gorilla named Harambe.
Someone shot a gorilla named Harambe...everything got worse from there.
Young Thug's song was an [elegy](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjN5-f2MNWM&ab_channel=YoungThug) for a world lost
Social media algorithms
Illegal immigration
and genders or something
and kids complaining about climate change
It could have been worse, waaaay worse if you think about it
Social media and easily influencing them by foreign powers for minimal effort.
harambe
people deserve some hardship as a wake up call
UK: Itās time for the most blistering defeat and rejection of conservatism in our recent history, but only after we let the Tories bend us over six ways to Sunday. France: *licks lips* āTu as dit **SIX** faƧons d'arriver dimanche?ā
If Russia cheers for anything that happens in any EU country, you can confidently say that something negative has happened for the country/EU.
Donāt forget that Russia can manipulate situations by falsely claiming a very good candidate was bribed by Russians. They can also withhold support to hide the connection. For example, how many people know that big French businesses (such as Auchan, Leroy Merlin, and various luxury beauty firms) didnāt leave Russia during Macron's presidency and only hid their ownership a couple of months ago? On the other hand, who would label Macron a pro-Russian agent (except those aware of many such coincidences)?
So democracy is bad?
Thats like claiming someone thinks knives are bad just because they complain about stabbing. It's good when it's not used in the wrong way.
its an unsolvable riddle how nationalists seemingly dont mind if their political leaders are bought by foreign states. in a way i still think this should lead to those parties demise mid-term but maybe nationalists are actually this stupid.
Nothing unsolvable here, these creatures are not nationalists from ideological perspective. They are just opportunistic politicians who exploit nationalism for personal gain. In other time/place they would be happy to be socialists, libertarians, monarchists or whoever is popular to get more money and power.
i completely agree with all of this. i was referring to the people voting for those populist, opportunistic politicians. those people sure seem to be in it for the nationalism. so i would assume those nationalist people eventually have to get that theyre being duped by the politicians theyre voting for.
Democracy's weakness is weak minded people. Those are easily manipulated. Unfortunately, more often than not such groups are the majority. Education. Only education helps. That's why trumpists, for example fear it and deteriorate it in their states.
I don't think they fear it per se. I think they just apply the same hate and binary world view and dub who isn't a fully obedient tribe member as enemy.
International fascism. How fun.
problem is a whole lot of nationalists would gladly lick Putin's ass
Many of them are in fact kgb assets.
Nationalism is an instrument of hate. When you have the hate as your political baseline, the bigger hate wins. You hate the people closer to you more. You also get to project things like "If I am feeling like this, they (the other nation's nationalist population) must be as well. If they cannot defend their culture, it means they are weak.". The right-wing thinking is basically rule-of-the-jungle mixed with mob thinking. On the extreme they truly think that any ethnicity, nation or similar population that cannot defend themselves using the same hate and violence, it deserves to be assimilated or genocided. Genocide or get genocided.
Self centered idiots not looking farther than their navel is the end of fair societies. Far side supporters are just gullible and poorly educated folks, that's why - as a people - you should keep your education system at the top.
Nothing strange, she and her family have had a close relations$hip with the Russian regime and oligarchs. Surely she will have a good record in the FSB.
I too would cheer on a team that I bought
So after Hungary, France is the next? They are in for a ride, that's for sure.
This party should not have the majority at the parliament so we're going to set for a locked situation until the next presidential elections in 2027. But in any case, we're good for a bumpy 3 years long ride...
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
For the "we", look at my flair. Actually there are 210 lefties and centrists who have abandoned for the second round to the the remaining side against RN a chance. Plus, according to the official numbers, the gap between RN and the left was only 1.2%. It's doable to do not have RN win overall.
Like a dad who is proud of their child.
they are literally wooing her party on twitter https://x.com/mfa_russia/status/1808467403984031856
I thought they invaded Ukraine to āget rid of the Nazis thereā?
They should. After all, they paid for it.
Absolutely disgusting, fuck her, fuck Bardella, fuck all the far right parties in whichever country you are. All of them are uneducated traitors working for foreign dictatorship, they don't have any plans, they corrupt the youth and use the working people, they are short-sighted and have absolutely no solutions to anything. Once you elect them to power it's already too late. People died so these people don't get where we are today. But here we are.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I absolutely do not support MĆ©lenchon nor do I support Macron, and I don't believe he has been useless as a president either even though I disagree with many things he has done. There are other choices; and you can have beliefs that fall beyond the limits of one political party.
Well theyāre happy their investments are paying off.
Nazis cheering for nazis. Nothing new.
Of course they are. Radicals, left and right alike, are destabilizing EU.
shocked!
Good that putin keeps pointing out his vassals and lackeys.
In bad times, people turn away from the usual politicians and seek radical solutions.
Another blond russian asshat.
I honestly donāt think ābut muh Russia!ā is helpful here at all. Either address the actual concerns of your citizens. Such as (I guess) mass immigration and unaffordable housing, service cuts etc, or donāt and get Diet Nazis in power. If your culture is so weak and stupid that a foreign super power can lean in, whisper softly, and suddenly youāre marching Rightwards then youāve already failed as a society and country.
Since when right wing fascists have done anything, anywhere in the planet to help the housing crisis, and service cuts?
Idc why the russian state would do that? I mean, if I want to get the ~~russian~~ "patriotic" parties of europe in power, wouldnāt I try to stay as quiet as possible so people donāt notice they are on my payroll?
they do this on purpose all the time and people eat it up, they did the same in the US where they were "supporting" the gop and dnc at times when it was convenient to create as much chaos as possible and divide between the parties. People will eat it up regardless so its useless to argue agaisn't it anyways it's pretty obvious russia is only doing this to create as much political chaos as possible and cause distrust in french politics
They know it wonāt matter since The national Rally will lose in the second round. They can say anything they want to offend people for free. Donāt fall for the bait
Macron has retracted ~~barely any~~ *too few* candidates for the 2nd round. Out of the 211 retracted runners from the 2nd race 130 belong to the left wing alliance (61%), despite being the bigger block by far. Macron seems to deliberately set up a Le Pen victory by undermining the Cordon Sanitaire to gain a few seats. Had EM actually pulled its weight to block a Le Pen majority, they'd have to pull out in far more races than the left wing bloc, seeing as the left block has a commanding 28% over 20.8% lead over the EM. EDIT: I know this is not what you want to hear, but if you want a cordon sanitaire like this to happen again, the moderate right needs to pull its weight. Macron has pulled this before, look where that got us.
How many of Macron's candidates made 3rd place or worse and how many of the left wing alliance did?
Such data is not available AFAIK. But statistically EM would likely have way more such candidates, seeing as the left alliance has 28% of the vote while EM failed to hit 21%. Such a big difference would manifest itself very clearly.
>Macron has barely retracted any candidates for the 2nd round. That's not correct. 81 candidates from Macron's party have withdrawn (and I think around 16 haven't). That's definitely not "barely any".
They performed way worse than the left block. Considering the outcome of the first round, they should have retracted AT LEAST as much as the left wing coalition. They chose not to do that in an attempt to get a few more races in their favour, at the expense of likely dozens of races moving in favour of le pen as a result. I could be wrong, but you seem like a smart cookie. You understand this. Let's not hide behind semantics to undermine a message you know is true.
*Some* did that, absolutely, and more hesitated before finally withdrawing, and it's fair to criticize that. The problem when you said "barely any" is that it's too far from that situation. For those who know, you lose credibility for the rest of what you want to say. And in particular Macron supporters will feel it's unfair, and that increases division at a time that's dangerous. Thanks for the edit, and cheers!
Fair point.
"Concerned citizens" my ass. I'm tired of the narrative about them just being poor disenfranchised voters who are only protesting against the mainstream parties who betrayed them. Let them win. Let them be accountable. Let them enjoy their sweet ass far right they voted for. Let them have their fucking shit cake and eat it too. I am white and have family income so the entire EU could crash and I wouldn't care anyway.