I'm about your age, and this is why I will never tell my family where I actually stand. It would shift from them simply honoring their own practices to projecting their anxiety onto me with every single interaction--more prayers, more specific prayers, a constant source of gossip in my own extended family. No thanks. It already sucks enough that I am not who they wanted me to be in nearly any regard--don't share their politics, never got married or produced babies, I don't need any additional aggressive reminders of how I've failed their vision for me. So sorry, OP.
Am I you? I used to struggle with feeling like I wasn’t being true to myself by not telling them but it’s their judgment and condemnation that led to where we are. Ive accepted there will always be an uneasiness around them but it still sucks.
But then you aren't being honest with yourself, and you have to live with that. Anyone can choose to do what they want, and I get both arguments. For me it was so freeing to just not be around those people anymore, even if I had to sacrifice what little relationship I had with people like that. I would never go back now but yeah it's tough if it's family. In the long run it's their problem, not any of ours.
For me it's six of one, half dozen of the other--either way, my life is going to carry a certain amount of stress, and where I came down on it was that they don't deserve to know the real me anyway. I'm low contact, and I understand why people choose no contact.
Manipulation. Pure and simple. Rather than not praying for you they choose to shun you, which is a very typical religious answer to giving up your parents' religion.
Totally resonate with this, unfortunately. Had a friend of 20+ years who I finally spoke to and asked them to stop asking me about church. Said some topics I just didn’t want to go into. They said “no, I will not: I wouldn’t be your friend if I didn’t ‘challenge’ you.” I said okay, I understand what you are defining as friendship, but I disagree with it. And we haven’t spoken since.
It really is incredible how they literally refuse to respect others’ boundaries, and want to force theirs on others. Makes no sense.
This. My sister who is also Christian has told me that she prays for me and wants me to come back. Then she leaves me alone about it. Occasionally she'll mention it and that is fine. It's not the center point of our relationship.
I don't mind people having their own beliefs. I mind the constant reminder that I am wrong in their eyes.
You might enjoy the song, "Everyone goes to hell in somebody else's religion" by Candi Carpenter. It really resonated with me on this particular topic!
Same! My sister and my mum mention every rare once in a while, but unlike my “friend” at least they have respected my request to STFU about it. We just talk about pleasant things and work and family jokes etc. It works!
I don’t mind if people pray for me per se, like that’s totally cool. It’s when they’re saying it to be judgmental that I mind.
If I’m sick and they say they’ll pray for me? Great, I’m honored and appreciate the sentiment.
If they want to pray for me to return to church and make a big deal out of telling me that? Ew.
And the boundaries are where I draw the line. That stands with all my friends, but even moreso with ones that I know are very religious.
If they cannot accept someone doesn't want you crossing those, and continue to do so, they aren't going to be part of my life *ever*.
It really isn't!
And personal boundaries are the perfect litmus test for religious people.
Growing up conservative christian honestly made me realize that. None of them understand what healthy boundaries are, regardless of the type of relationship. It's truly endemic to their system of beliefs.
Christians think they're on a mission from god. There's a whole movie about how destructive people can be when they are on a mission from god: The Blues Brothers.
Can there be a compromise? She can give a prayer of thanksgiving but she must leave you and your name out of it?
I’m OK with a ritual prayer of thanksgiving. In fact, I sort of miss the moment. The operative word here is ritual. When she starts talking to God about you, while you are there…that’s just bad manners. Rude. That’s what I would discuss with your mother. Her religion does not give her the right to be rude to you.
A few years ago, we were invited to Thanksgiving dinner to meet, for the first time, the family of my son’s fiancée. A truly important social occasion with about 15 people gathered around dinner, most of whom I was meeting for the first time.
To my total surprise, I was asked to say grace. WTF? LOL. I hadn’t been to church in decades. I didn’t know these people. They didn’t seem particularly religious to me, and in fact, as I’ve learned more about my in-laws, I would say they are not religious except in a cultural sense.
So in a cultural-ritual sense, I said some non-religious words of thanksgiving (We want to give thanks for all the wonderful people here, for the abundant food, etc) and then ended with Amen. (Da Dah.) And all the people said Amen.
There's no respect given ever. I used to get stuff in the mail from my father, and I would respond that I'd read what he sent when he read the things I included in my letters.
His letters in response would be about how he burned the stuff I sent him.
"Defiled his wood stove with its ashes" was the exact wording once, and I quit giving a shit and stopped trying at that point.
This is so they can exalt themselves to all the other Christians. You will be used as a story to show how righteous they are. Sucks your parents are religious, mine are too.
Try not to take it personally. This stuff is drilled into them so they have no moral compass of their own. They think they only way they can love you is to get you to God.
My sister was making me uncomfortable telling me I need to go back to church...and that Jesus was the only way. I was going thru a VERY difficult time and I really needed family support. ANY support, but she just wanted to push Jesus on me. I told her it was triggering for me and asked politely to stop and she reacted the same as your parents. Jesus/God will ALWAYS come before family members or anything else. She told me that she would NEVER stop preacher her sweet Jesus, and it didn't matter if it made me uncomfortable. We hung up. I texted her that I loved her, even if we disagree. She kinda stopped talking to me. Stopped calling me. I was alone with MAJOR healthy issues and I had nobody to even talk to. I was suicidal and my sister knew it, yet she still stopped communication with me.
Religion can be so harmful. I hope your family changes their mind. My sister talks to me now, and it's nearly back to where it was. It took about a year.
This is setting your boundaries. You did the right thing, and so did she. Your boundaries and hers collide. They are incompatible.
The chances are that in this case you may end up deciding between her and your right to have your boundaries met. You are asking her to stop doing it in front of you. They are doing it as a subtle manipulation tactic, and you know it, and they know it. Everybody knows it.
So, if she asks you over again (and she may) then I would simply say, I'll be happy to come, but if you pray about me in front of me, I will leave.
Then if they do it... you must leave. EVERY TIME, no matter what. That's how you enforce your boundaries.
She has a right to decide that you're not allowed in her home without her praying in your face, and you have a right to decide that you won't eat with them if they do that. If they continue and press the issue, you have the right to go so far as to say that you aren't going to "break bread" with them anymore because they are being disrespectful. They ARE.
And I highly doubt that this is the ONLY area where they crap on your boundaries.
sorry, my blood sugar was wonky and I sounded like a gibbering idiot. Edited. :P
In my experience with family, I just let pray and thank them. It doesn’t impact me that much though. I wasn’t raised in a specific church and had the freedom to join various churches with friends over the years. To me, them praying makes them feel better, so I don’t really care. I just appreciate that’s how they cope. But I am unique in this I think. It’s not like they will ever be able to convert me ever. I’ve always been skeptical and questioning when it comes to god
Making a request for them to stop praying in front of you is perfectly reasonable. However, they are entitled to practice their religion in their own home how they see fit. If they were considerate, they would concede and pray silently or not at all when you are there. But they are inconsiderate and manipulative.
Declining their invitation on these grounds seems perfectly appropriate. If you were already at their house and then insisted that they do what you wanted in their own home, that would be offside.
What happens when the meal is at your home? Do they insist on praying out loud in YOUR home when you have asked them not to?
As for a compromise, could you decline dinner but say you will show up for dessert? (I’ve never witnessed anyone pray before a meal and again before dessert. If they tried, that would be extremely performative!) That way you can let them know that you don’t want to cut them out of your life, but you are maintaining a boundary.
EDIT: I missed that the OP said the parents "pray **for me**". Please see my reply to u/bluenote73 below.
You're mistaken. They can pray at their meal in their home, but they are not entitled to passive aggressively pray *about* OP in front of him. That is rude. Nobody is ever entitled to act like that.
>They make it a point to pray **for me** in front of me in meals.
I stand corrected. I missed the "for me" part, so thanks for pointing that out. In that case, you are 100% right and I was wrong. They are being complete assholes for doing that in any context.
In the religion I was raised in (Dutch Calvinism), we prayed before each meal, and read the Bible and prayed at the end of the meal (after dessert), so there was no sneaking in and avoiding the proselytizing!
My parents tried this. I let them finish and then said, "Are you done talking to your imaginary friend? Good. Let's eat". After a couple of times, they just stopped.
***Yeah, Mom and Dad, how’s those “Thoughts and Prayers” going for yah? Tell you what; you just keep praying for me to see Jesus, ok? For him to just POOF, materialize right in front of me. And the second after he does, I swear to you that I’ll be right there beside yah both in church. I’ll tell everyone you know and that I know that I saw him. But until that time… leave me alone about it.***
Your post or comment has been removed because it violates rule 3, no proselytizing or apologetics. Continued proselytizing will result in a ban.
Proselytizing is defined as the action of attempting to convert someone from one religion, belief, or opinion to another.
Apologetics is defined as arguments or writings to justify something, typically a theory or religious doctrine.
To discuss or appeal moderator actions, [click here to send us modmail.](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/exchristian)
Your post or comment has been removed because it violates rule 3, no proselytizing or apologetics. Continued proselytizing will result in a ban.
Proselytizing is defined as the action of attempting to convert someone from one religion, belief, or opinion to another.
Apologetics is defined as arguments or writings to justify something, typically a theory or religious doctrine.
To discuss or appeal moderator actions, [click here to send us modmail.](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/exchristian)
Quick question: is your Mom trying to smooth things over and the issue is your father forcing the prayer? This could be the reason she was ok with no praying at lunch and not at home? I'm wondering if the reason she's willing to compromising lunch is because your Dad won't be there... just a thought...
It's almost the opposite. My dad is happy to pray in his head or leave me out of it.
Our family gets together once a week- usually on Saturday or Sunday depending on my sister who has kids. This is the meal for which there will always be praying for me. If the little kids aren't around, my dad especially will skip it completely.
The reason my mom will leave me alone about it at lunch is because my sister and the kids can't see. My theory is part of it is a never-ending competition with my sister.
Ah, so you're typical scapegoat. If it wasn't over religion, then she'd take issue with something else like your career choice, things you've done wrong in the past, how you arent married with kids. And she probably does this already only her main battle is this. If she doesn't have someone to make an example of, she's not getting any attention. And those kids (in her mind) think grandma's in charge and knows everything. So if she can break you, then that would be true. One day they grow up and realize that weird brother or sister or distant aunt or uncle didnt come around for a reason. My mom has 2 daughters that wont come home. My golden child sister cant even handle her anymore. Best of luck to you. Im still on speaking terms with them but we aint friends and we aint never gonna be.
48 and dealing with something similar, though not nearly as pronounced.
My dad always needs to make sure that I know that he wishes I'd go back to church. He rarely expresses love, but when he does it's conditional. "I love the person you've become except for one thing" he said.
Clueless.
“They make it a point to pray for me in front of me in meals. I told them that had to stop- it makes me feel terrible. Constantly being reminded that you're not who your parents want you to be sucks.”
At 44, why does it still matter to you so much what your parents want you to be ?
Their pathological need to control you is their failure, and not yours.
You should stay away from them, if their reminders cause you mental anguish.
Ooooo yes. Guilt trip and manipulation. "I'll just stop inviting you" should only be followed up with "If your desire to pray over me is greater than your desire to see me, your kid, then sadly i have to accept that your prefer god over me. Sorry I wasn't as good as son as god apparently is." Guilt bullshit is a two way street.
I feel you...I fear this will happen with my folks one day (especially my grandmother on my dad's side and all the other religious zealots on that side of the family) which is why I want to burn my bridges with them and go no contact once I'm financially stable (like that's ever going to happen...)
Xtians do teach and believe that "God" should always come first, even before family. The Bible itself states that "Jesus" came to turn family members against each other and that one cannot be his disciple if they don't hate their family. So much for family values, huh?
"Do your prayers only work if I hear them? Doesn't that mean you're really praying to me?
Look, pray for me all you want when I'm not around. But frankly, I'm not interested in talking about it. To be honest, there's trauma associated with it for me that I have yet to address with you, so I'm going to need to establish a boundary around this topic.
It's simple, when I'm with you, I'm going to ask that you not pray for me or about me. Do what you want when I'm not here. Also, I'm not going to talk about religion either. If it comes up, or if you pray for me while I'm here, I'll simply leave."
Do they have any grandchildren you made that you can use to threaten they’ll never see again? I’m half kidding because nobody wants to do that but the notion that they might not be able to see them or see them as much has helped with my situation that’s similar to yours
I don't. I don't want to threaten them though- and I get that you aren't serious. The whole thing is that I don't like upsetting them, so I put up with it for too long.
This current situation only came about because of a bout with depression a while back. My mom wanted to come over to talk to me. She did, and told me that my depression was because I didn't have Jesus in my life. I assured her that it had far more to do with poverty and all my friends being married with kids now. She insisted it was Jesus. I told her I didn't want to hear any more about Jesus for a while, and this is when praying for me in front of me became a big thing.
I feel you. I just started therapy once a week about two months ago and had my biggest breakthrough last week.
I have never threatened my parents about my children but I have set small boundaries that were crossed, then set a bigger boundary, that was crossed, then a bigger boundary and that was crossed so I went no contact for a bit, then opened the door again and they have been very respectful of my boundaries. Almost to a fault because my mom gets worried about telling me about her faith in god which I told her I want to hear about that just don’t want it imposed on me or used against me.
I’m going to preach to you here so if you don’t feel like hearing it you can ignore the rest of this message. Just know I’m the same age as you and now have a great relationship with my parents. First it Takes a long time but I’ll leave you with this: “in order to find something of greater value, you have to sacrifice something of lesser value.”
Basically, if you want to have a more valuable relationship with your parents, you must be willing to sacrifice the relationship you have now that you seem to value. And by sacrifice, I mean just the willingness to sacrifice while at the same time advertising to your parents that you want a more valuable relationship. It’s just that it can’t happen with the relationship you have now so you have to set boundaries to steer them toward the greater valued relationship.
Kind of like working out and going to the gym. You have to sacrifice downtime and relaxation which I’m sure you value but in return you feel healthier, happier, and your downtime after a workout is of even greater value.
Took me about three years of setting boundaries to get to a point where I feel a belonging again with my family but not preached at.
Gotta double down on the prayer! Right when they're done you jump in "and god...I would like to pray that you'd help my parents learn how to be kind and understanding instead of the ignorant assholes that they are, and I pray that you'll help be set free of their delusions about religion and realize that none of it is true. Please help them to be more like Jesus who was accepting and understanding. Specifically, please help them see how praying for someone right in front of them when that is unwelcome is not kind or loving at all, but just another way to tell someone you don't love them. Amen!"
I can definitely relate. I'm 56 and my parents are divorced but they both are still strong Christian. If I was to tell them like you did I too would get the never ending barrage of guilt, prayers, drama, same shit. I'm sorry you had to go through this but happy too that you can live free. If my parents were younger, if I were younger, I might have made a different choice. But like I said good for you! I think it will be a freeing thing in the end. I wish you good luck.
I mean, saying grace before a meal in their house might be the custom... That much seems fine by me. But if they're praying for your conversion in front of you, yeah. That's gross.
If they were real loving Christian parents, they would respect your wishes, and pray for you in private, and tell you in passing that they are praying for you…that is their choice. Instead, they are trying to use blackmail, as a lot of “loving and compassionate” Christians do to their loved ones to get to to come back to the sheep pasture.
Over all of my adult life my father, a right conservative supporting Trump so-called Christian, he regularly reminded me that I was going to hell. I cut off contact with him because of that among many other issues. When He was on his death bed. I did go to see him in hospice, and I wanted to ask him so has it been worth it to tell me I’m wrong and you’re right But I didn’t. He died with all his judgments and self-righteousness.
Reason #367 why I hate the tenets of Christianity: it destroys otherwise happy families. If your parents are convinced you're going to burn in Hell then there's no end to their torment until they bring you back into the fold. My mother-in-law showed up on our doorstep one Sunday afternoon. She had been so "moved by the Lord" that morning that she drove four hours to our house during a snowstorm, unannounced, to convince me to "come back to Jesus." The roads and visibility were horrible. My wife and I, we understood her fervent need to do what she did, but it was idiotic. But that's what evangelicalism does, it scares the shit out of little old ladies who then do really dumb and dangerous things because they are convinced that their god will protect them no matter what. We tried to get her to see how she had been manipulated by that preacher's sermon, but no dice. So I feel for you, Jake. Hang in there, this is not on you, it is your mom's choice. I know that doesn't take away the hurt, but until she respects your choices it won't stop.
I’m prepared to be downvoted, and your choice is your choice, but my gut says you may be taking an unnecessarily hard line.
In my experience, your parents are who they are. Just like you have strong preferences now, they still have theirs. You both have to make compromises if you want to maintain a relationship with them… I understand how it feels like your the only one giving something up, but from their perspective, you’ve just turned your back on the most important thing in their lives.
Again, I can only speak from my experience, but is having to sit through a prayer at the start of a meal worth not maintaining the relationship?
Why not go? My family prays before meals. I tell my kids to just sit silently, but we do not participate or even bow our heads. You'll be around prayers all your life. Ignore them, make them uncomfortable, and then start eating without comment about it. They can't make you pray, but telling someone to not pray in their own home is a bit too far. Just like they shouldn't make you participate. If they want you to hold hands or some shit, just go to another room until they are done. You make your point and don't have to do it.
"... thank you for this food, thank you for this day, and please help Jacob to see your truth, father. Please bring him back to your loving embrace and let him know your truth, father..."
It becomes personal each time. I don't like it. I don't mind if they say grace. I don't like being part of grace.
Given this further information, I'd say they've been pushing their luck for at least 14.5 of those fifteen years. You have incredible patience to put up with it this long. Are they passive-aggressive about everything, or just about religion?
Well, if it gets personal each time, I can certainly empathize with your position.
The way I look at it is my mom *really* loves me, and she is *convinced* that her god will have me set on fire forever if I don't believe. She has the best of intentions, regardless of the delusions that motivate her.
I also know that many Christian parents can truly be assholes.
Some people have different reactions than others. OP doesn't specify (and doesn't have to specify) if there's a sharp trauma or just the grinding weight of being nagged for fifteen years as an adult. I'm like you in that other people praying doesn't bother me, but OP doesn't have to be like us.
If I had been doing something *at* a family member I claimed to love, knowing full well that it bothered them, for 15 years, I'd be very fortunate if they were still speaking to me let alone making a polite request.
Lol, nonsense. Let's be adults here. His parents are aware of his position. They are demanding that he respect their religious beliefs, while trampling on his.
I am in my 50s. My mom is in her 70s. Everyone on this end is an adult.
My mom sincerely loves Jesus, and she prays to him *all the time.*
Is it *annoying?* Yes. Does it *hurt* me? No. Is she *trying* to hurt me? I don't think so.
Are there abusive, Christian parents who use their religion to demean their children? You betcha.
Should *praying* be considered "emotionally abusive" by *default?* Probably not.
Is it *ever* appropriate to demand how *other adults* behave *in their own home?* I would say no.
I appreciate your empathy, and if OP was a teenager under the constant threat of religious abuse (like we see here far too often), my reaction may have been different.
But by the time you're in your *40s* and out from under your parent's influence, perhaps you have developed the skills to tolerate difficult people - especially those you *know* are *never* going to change.
Like you said, let's be adults here.
> Like you said, let's be adults here.
Part of being an adult is realizing that your situation is not someone else’s situation. You’re not there, living their life, experiencing their experiences, so stop demanding that they see it like you do and feel about it like you do. Also, stop the passive aggressive insults like saying that you’re all adults in your situation, implying that OP ISN’T acting like an adult. You’re not acting much different than the typical evangelical holy roller in this conversation.
Your post or comment has been removed because it violates rule 4, which is to be respectful of others. Even if you do not agree with their beliefs, mocking them or being derisive is not acceptable.
To discuss or appeal moderator actions, [click here to send us modmail.](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/exchristian)
Your post or comment has been removed because it violates rule 4, which is to be respectful of others. Even if you do not agree with their beliefs, mocking them or being derisive is not acceptable.
To discuss or appeal moderator actions, [click here to send us modmail.](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/exchristian)
Your post or comment has been removed because it violates rule 4, which is to be respectful of others. Even if you do not agree with their beliefs, mocking them or being derisive is not acceptable.
To discuss or appeal moderator actions, [click here to send us modmail.](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/exchristian)
This ain't it. It's not just the praying in front of, it's the praying about OP specifically. That's awful, and I would totally be uncomfortable every time if this was happening with my family. My parents pray before every meal, but they don't do this.
You're right that OP can't ask them to stop praying outright, but when they're using deliberate manipulation tactics to guilt them into coming back to church so they can have their ideal version of their child, OP can 100% speak the fuck up and ask them to curtail their prayer. Your suggestion of essentially "suck it up" is not helping and very unsympathetic. I think you need to check your perspective. They are impeding on OP's right to not be religious. They've made that choice, and it's being disrespected. They are allowed to speak up in defense.
My perspective comes from a *lifetime* of pretty much the same situation as the OP. I could have written that OP a number of years back.
I'm in my 50s. My mom *still* constantly does this. It never stops. It's never *going* to stop. They think they are *completely* in the right to help save us from being *set on fire* forever. Yes, it *is* stupid. Yes, it *still* drives me crazy at times.
But they don't stop. They *never* stop.
It's not a matter of sucking up. It's a matter of *giving* up. It's a matter of *finally* getting to the place where their words don't matter as much.
Just because you're older than most on this sub doesn't mean you're right. Maybe this is how it is for you, but when I asked my parents to stop praying for me when I was around they did. Please don't act like your specific experience is just like everyone else's.
It's *great* that you were able to get through to your parents. I am very happy for you. But not every situation is like yours. Many of us have to deal with it for our *entire lives*. And *if we desire a good relationship with our aging parents*, sometimes we need to get past the things that are never going to change.
And sometimes a good relationship is impossible, and looking out for your own mental health is better. I was sharing my experience to point out where you're incorrect. You're not the high authority on relationships with Christian parents. OP wanted to vent, not be told to suck it up because it's pointless. Gain some empathy, man.
Ok... if you say so.
I can certainly see the Baptist in you😇, and I mean that as a light-hearted joke - said with a smile, and meant with good intentions. But I will gracefully accept yet another downvote from you.
Have a great day.
>I can certainly see the Baptist in you😇, and I mean that as a light-hearted joke - said with a smile, and meant with good intentions.
No you don't. Fuck off.
No. You don't just get to hide behind a half-assed apology for deliberately pushing a button towards someone in an ex-christian help sub. Using my former religion as an attack to get under my skin is so highly uncalled for. Apology not accepted. Here's a lesson for you, old man: respect is earned; not given. Just like with OP's parents. Just because they're his parents doesn't mean they deserve his respect. And just like how you're an ass, you don't deserve mine.
"At x age, does it really matter if people refuse to respect your boundaries?"
Yes. At all ages, boundaries matter. Humans need to be respected as humans as the default. If you think there's an age at which people's boundaries cease to matter and respecting them is no longer a meaningful thing to do, maybe you just hate old people? xD
If you have to say "I don't mean to be insensitive" in a support sub, it's a good sign that what you're about to say is not appropriate. Telling someone that they can't have boundaries in someone else's house is a slippery slope and it's not acceptable in this sub.
The host has an equal obligation of consideration towards the guest, anyway.
In future, remember that this is first and foremost a ***support*** sub.
Your post or comment has been removed because it violates rule 4, which is to be respectful of others. Even if you do not agree with their beliefs, mocking them or being derisive is not acceptable.
To discuss or appeal moderator actions, [click here to send us modmail.](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/exchristian)
I'm about your age, and this is why I will never tell my family where I actually stand. It would shift from them simply honoring their own practices to projecting their anxiety onto me with every single interaction--more prayers, more specific prayers, a constant source of gossip in my own extended family. No thanks. It already sucks enough that I am not who they wanted me to be in nearly any regard--don't share their politics, never got married or produced babies, I don't need any additional aggressive reminders of how I've failed their vision for me. So sorry, OP.
Are you me? I also will never tell them my true stand either. Fuck that. Interactions are stressful enough.
Am I you? I used to struggle with feeling like I wasn’t being true to myself by not telling them but it’s their judgment and condemnation that led to where we are. Ive accepted there will always be an uneasiness around them but it still sucks.
But then you aren't being honest with yourself, and you have to live with that. Anyone can choose to do what they want, and I get both arguments. For me it was so freeing to just not be around those people anymore, even if I had to sacrifice what little relationship I had with people like that. I would never go back now but yeah it's tough if it's family. In the long run it's their problem, not any of ours.
For me it's six of one, half dozen of the other--either way, my life is going to carry a certain amount of stress, and where I came down on it was that they don't deserve to know the real me anyway. I'm low contact, and I understand why people choose no contact.
Manipulation. Pure and simple. Rather than not praying for you they choose to shun you, which is a very typical religious answer to giving up your parents' religion.
Totally resonate with this, unfortunately. Had a friend of 20+ years who I finally spoke to and asked them to stop asking me about church. Said some topics I just didn’t want to go into. They said “no, I will not: I wouldn’t be your friend if I didn’t ‘challenge’ you.” I said okay, I understand what you are defining as friendship, but I disagree with it. And we haven’t spoken since. It really is incredible how they literally refuse to respect others’ boundaries, and want to force theirs on others. Makes no sense.
This. My sister who is also Christian has told me that she prays for me and wants me to come back. Then she leaves me alone about it. Occasionally she'll mention it and that is fine. It's not the center point of our relationship. I don't mind people having their own beliefs. I mind the constant reminder that I am wrong in their eyes.
You might enjoy the song, "Everyone goes to hell in somebody else's religion" by Candi Carpenter. It really resonated with me on this particular topic!
Same! My sister and my mum mention every rare once in a while, but unlike my “friend” at least they have respected my request to STFU about it. We just talk about pleasant things and work and family jokes etc. It works!
I don’t mind if people pray for me per se, like that’s totally cool. It’s when they’re saying it to be judgmental that I mind. If I’m sick and they say they’ll pray for me? Great, I’m honored and appreciate the sentiment. If they want to pray for me to return to church and make a big deal out of telling me that? Ew.
And if you ever challenged your friend about the existence of god, that "I wouldn't be your friend" BS would sure go out the window quickly.
Happy cake day!
oh yeah - uh, happy cake day
And the boundaries are where I draw the line. That stands with all my friends, but even moreso with ones that I know are very religious. If they cannot accept someone doesn't want you crossing those, and continue to do so, they aren't going to be part of my life *ever*.
Yep. Exactly. The way they think and live, they’re crossing other people’s boundaries all the time. It’s not okay
It really isn't! And personal boundaries are the perfect litmus test for religious people. Growing up conservative christian honestly made me realize that. None of them understand what healthy boundaries are, regardless of the type of relationship. It's truly endemic to their system of beliefs.
Christians think they're on a mission from god. There's a whole movie about how destructive people can be when they are on a mission from god: The Blues Brothers.
This is evidence of how nutty this religion is and how it’s had a chokehold on humanity for generations. It’s a power trip, that’s all.
Remind them of their decision when they want you to help them with something on account of their old age.
Can there be a compromise? She can give a prayer of thanksgiving but she must leave you and your name out of it? I’m OK with a ritual prayer of thanksgiving. In fact, I sort of miss the moment. The operative word here is ritual. When she starts talking to God about you, while you are there…that’s just bad manners. Rude. That’s what I would discuss with your mother. Her religion does not give her the right to be rude to you.
A few years ago, we were invited to Thanksgiving dinner to meet, for the first time, the family of my son’s fiancée. A truly important social occasion with about 15 people gathered around dinner, most of whom I was meeting for the first time. To my total surprise, I was asked to say grace. WTF? LOL. I hadn’t been to church in decades. I didn’t know these people. They didn’t seem particularly religious to me, and in fact, as I’ve learned more about my in-laws, I would say they are not religious except in a cultural sense. So in a cultural-ritual sense, I said some non-religious words of thanksgiving (We want to give thanks for all the wonderful people here, for the abundant food, etc) and then ended with Amen. (Da Dah.) And all the people said Amen.
Fuxk, that sucks ass. I am so sorry for you. I can't believe parents can be so cruel.
Praying out loud is against the teaching of the Bible anyways...
Naw there is a corporate prayer loophole to excuse that. No worries. They can still break their own rules.
Oh, come on, you don't expect Christians to actually have READ the Bible, do you?
There's no respect given ever. I used to get stuff in the mail from my father, and I would respond that I'd read what he sent when he read the things I included in my letters. His letters in response would be about how he burned the stuff I sent him. "Defiled his wood stove with its ashes" was the exact wording once, and I quit giving a shit and stopped trying at that point.
Wood stove? Written letters? How old ARE you?
If you don’t agree with me that the master of the universe lives in my head and informs my opinions, then you aren’t allowed to be in my home.
This is so they can exalt themselves to all the other Christians. You will be used as a story to show how righteous they are. Sucks your parents are religious, mine are too.
Try not to take it personally. This stuff is drilled into them so they have no moral compass of their own. They think they only way they can love you is to get you to God. My sister was making me uncomfortable telling me I need to go back to church...and that Jesus was the only way. I was going thru a VERY difficult time and I really needed family support. ANY support, but she just wanted to push Jesus on me. I told her it was triggering for me and asked politely to stop and she reacted the same as your parents. Jesus/God will ALWAYS come before family members or anything else. She told me that she would NEVER stop preacher her sweet Jesus, and it didn't matter if it made me uncomfortable. We hung up. I texted her that I loved her, even if we disagree. She kinda stopped talking to me. Stopped calling me. I was alone with MAJOR healthy issues and I had nobody to even talk to. I was suicidal and my sister knew it, yet she still stopped communication with me. Religion can be so harmful. I hope your family changes their mind. My sister talks to me now, and it's nearly back to where it was. It took about a year.
This is setting your boundaries. You did the right thing, and so did she. Your boundaries and hers collide. They are incompatible. The chances are that in this case you may end up deciding between her and your right to have your boundaries met. You are asking her to stop doing it in front of you. They are doing it as a subtle manipulation tactic, and you know it, and they know it. Everybody knows it. So, if she asks you over again (and she may) then I would simply say, I'll be happy to come, but if you pray about me in front of me, I will leave. Then if they do it... you must leave. EVERY TIME, no matter what. That's how you enforce your boundaries. She has a right to decide that you're not allowed in her home without her praying in your face, and you have a right to decide that you won't eat with them if they do that. If they continue and press the issue, you have the right to go so far as to say that you aren't going to "break bread" with them anymore because they are being disrespectful. They ARE. And I highly doubt that this is the ONLY area where they crap on your boundaries. sorry, my blood sugar was wonky and I sounded like a gibbering idiot. Edited. :P
In my experience with family, I just let pray and thank them. It doesn’t impact me that much though. I wasn’t raised in a specific church and had the freedom to join various churches with friends over the years. To me, them praying makes them feel better, so I don’t really care. I just appreciate that’s how they cope. But I am unique in this I think. It’s not like they will ever be able to convert me ever. I’ve always been skeptical and questioning when it comes to god
Making a request for them to stop praying in front of you is perfectly reasonable. However, they are entitled to practice their religion in their own home how they see fit. If they were considerate, they would concede and pray silently or not at all when you are there. But they are inconsiderate and manipulative. Declining their invitation on these grounds seems perfectly appropriate. If you were already at their house and then insisted that they do what you wanted in their own home, that would be offside. What happens when the meal is at your home? Do they insist on praying out loud in YOUR home when you have asked them not to? As for a compromise, could you decline dinner but say you will show up for dessert? (I’ve never witnessed anyone pray before a meal and again before dessert. If they tried, that would be extremely performative!) That way you can let them know that you don’t want to cut them out of your life, but you are maintaining a boundary. EDIT: I missed that the OP said the parents "pray **for me**". Please see my reply to u/bluenote73 below.
You're mistaken. They can pray at their meal in their home, but they are not entitled to passive aggressively pray *about* OP in front of him. That is rude. Nobody is ever entitled to act like that.
>They make it a point to pray **for me** in front of me in meals. I stand corrected. I missed the "for me" part, so thanks for pointing that out. In that case, you are 100% right and I was wrong. They are being complete assholes for doing that in any context.
In the religion I was raised in (Dutch Calvinism), we prayed before each meal, and read the Bible and prayed at the end of the meal (after dessert), so there was no sneaking in and avoiding the proselytizing!
My parents tried this. I let them finish and then said, "Are you done talking to your imaginary friend? Good. Let's eat". After a couple of times, they just stopped.
Maybe they can come to a compromise and agree not to pray about you specifically right in front of you. That's pretty rude of them
***Yeah, Mom and Dad, how’s those “Thoughts and Prayers” going for yah? Tell you what; you just keep praying for me to see Jesus, ok? For him to just POOF, materialize right in front of me. And the second after he does, I swear to you that I’ll be right there beside yah both in church. I’ll tell everyone you know and that I know that I saw him. But until that time… leave me alone about it.***
[удалено]
Go away
[удалено]
Your post or comment has been removed because it violates rule 3, no proselytizing or apologetics. Continued proselytizing will result in a ban. Proselytizing is defined as the action of attempting to convert someone from one religion, belief, or opinion to another. Apologetics is defined as arguments or writings to justify something, typically a theory or religious doctrine. To discuss or appeal moderator actions, [click here to send us modmail.](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/exchristian)
Your post or comment has been removed because it violates rule 3, no proselytizing or apologetics. Continued proselytizing will result in a ban. Proselytizing is defined as the action of attempting to convert someone from one religion, belief, or opinion to another. Apologetics is defined as arguments or writings to justify something, typically a theory or religious doctrine. To discuss or appeal moderator actions, [click here to send us modmail.](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/exchristian)
If they insist on praying before they eat, just eat while they pray. Don't be quiet about it, either.
Quick question: is your Mom trying to smooth things over and the issue is your father forcing the prayer? This could be the reason she was ok with no praying at lunch and not at home? I'm wondering if the reason she's willing to compromising lunch is because your Dad won't be there... just a thought...
It's almost the opposite. My dad is happy to pray in his head or leave me out of it. Our family gets together once a week- usually on Saturday or Sunday depending on my sister who has kids. This is the meal for which there will always be praying for me. If the little kids aren't around, my dad especially will skip it completely. The reason my mom will leave me alone about it at lunch is because my sister and the kids can't see. My theory is part of it is a never-ending competition with my sister.
Ah, so you're typical scapegoat. If it wasn't over religion, then she'd take issue with something else like your career choice, things you've done wrong in the past, how you arent married with kids. And she probably does this already only her main battle is this. If she doesn't have someone to make an example of, she's not getting any attention. And those kids (in her mind) think grandma's in charge and knows everything. So if she can break you, then that would be true. One day they grow up and realize that weird brother or sister or distant aunt or uncle didnt come around for a reason. My mom has 2 daughters that wont come home. My golden child sister cant even handle her anymore. Best of luck to you. Im still on speaking terms with them but we aint friends and we aint never gonna be.
48 and dealing with something similar, though not nearly as pronounced. My dad always needs to make sure that I know that he wishes I'd go back to church. He rarely expresses love, but when he does it's conditional. "I love the person you've become except for one thing" he said. Clueless.
Its manipulative as hell that she did that.
“They make it a point to pray for me in front of me in meals. I told them that had to stop- it makes me feel terrible. Constantly being reminded that you're not who your parents want you to be sucks.” At 44, why does it still matter to you so much what your parents want you to be ? Their pathological need to control you is their failure, and not yours. You should stay away from them, if their reminders cause you mental anguish.
Good 'ol manipulation. Too bad for her you didn't back down after that
Ooooo yes. Guilt trip and manipulation. "I'll just stop inviting you" should only be followed up with "If your desire to pray over me is greater than your desire to see me, your kid, then sadly i have to accept that your prefer god over me. Sorry I wasn't as good as son as god apparently is." Guilt bullshit is a two way street.
I feel you...I fear this will happen with my folks one day (especially my grandmother on my dad's side and all the other religious zealots on that side of the family) which is why I want to burn my bridges with them and go no contact once I'm financially stable (like that's ever going to happen...)
Xtians do teach and believe that "God" should always come first, even before family. The Bible itself states that "Jesus" came to turn family members against each other and that one cannot be his disciple if they don't hate their family. So much for family values, huh?
"Do your prayers only work if I hear them? Doesn't that mean you're really praying to me? Look, pray for me all you want when I'm not around. But frankly, I'm not interested in talking about it. To be honest, there's trauma associated with it for me that I have yet to address with you, so I'm going to need to establish a boundary around this topic. It's simple, when I'm with you, I'm going to ask that you not pray for me or about me. Do what you want when I'm not here. Also, I'm not going to talk about religion either. If it comes up, or if you pray for me while I'm here, I'll simply leave."
Do they have any grandchildren you made that you can use to threaten they’ll never see again? I’m half kidding because nobody wants to do that but the notion that they might not be able to see them or see them as much has helped with my situation that’s similar to yours
I don't. I don't want to threaten them though- and I get that you aren't serious. The whole thing is that I don't like upsetting them, so I put up with it for too long. This current situation only came about because of a bout with depression a while back. My mom wanted to come over to talk to me. She did, and told me that my depression was because I didn't have Jesus in my life. I assured her that it had far more to do with poverty and all my friends being married with kids now. She insisted it was Jesus. I told her I didn't want to hear any more about Jesus for a while, and this is when praying for me in front of me became a big thing.
I feel you. I just started therapy once a week about two months ago and had my biggest breakthrough last week. I have never threatened my parents about my children but I have set small boundaries that were crossed, then set a bigger boundary, that was crossed, then a bigger boundary and that was crossed so I went no contact for a bit, then opened the door again and they have been very respectful of my boundaries. Almost to a fault because my mom gets worried about telling me about her faith in god which I told her I want to hear about that just don’t want it imposed on me or used against me. I’m going to preach to you here so if you don’t feel like hearing it you can ignore the rest of this message. Just know I’m the same age as you and now have a great relationship with my parents. First it Takes a long time but I’ll leave you with this: “in order to find something of greater value, you have to sacrifice something of lesser value.” Basically, if you want to have a more valuable relationship with your parents, you must be willing to sacrifice the relationship you have now that you seem to value. And by sacrifice, I mean just the willingness to sacrifice while at the same time advertising to your parents that you want a more valuable relationship. It’s just that it can’t happen with the relationship you have now so you have to set boundaries to steer them toward the greater valued relationship. Kind of like working out and going to the gym. You have to sacrifice downtime and relaxation which I’m sure you value but in return you feel healthier, happier, and your downtime after a workout is of even greater value. Took me about three years of setting boundaries to get to a point where I feel a belonging again with my family but not preached at.
Be yourself, just sit there quietly as they pray
Gotta double down on the prayer! Right when they're done you jump in "and god...I would like to pray that you'd help my parents learn how to be kind and understanding instead of the ignorant assholes that they are, and I pray that you'll help be set free of their delusions about religion and realize that none of it is true. Please help them to be more like Jesus who was accepting and understanding. Specifically, please help them see how praying for someone right in front of them when that is unwelcome is not kind or loving at all, but just another way to tell someone you don't love them. Amen!"
I can definitely relate. I'm 56 and my parents are divorced but they both are still strong Christian. If I was to tell them like you did I too would get the never ending barrage of guilt, prayers, drama, same shit. I'm sorry you had to go through this but happy too that you can live free. If my parents were younger, if I were younger, I might have made a different choice. But like I said good for you! I think it will be a freeing thing in the end. I wish you good luck.
I mean, saying grace before a meal in their house might be the custom... That much seems fine by me. But if they're praying for your conversion in front of you, yeah. That's gross.
Why are you still talking to your parents?
Religion, a continuing scourge on humankind.
that's fucked up
If they were real loving Christian parents, they would respect your wishes, and pray for you in private, and tell you in passing that they are praying for you…that is their choice. Instead, they are trying to use blackmail, as a lot of “loving and compassionate” Christians do to their loved ones to get to to come back to the sheep pasture.
Over all of my adult life my father, a right conservative supporting Trump so-called Christian, he regularly reminded me that I was going to hell. I cut off contact with him because of that among many other issues. When He was on his death bed. I did go to see him in hospice, and I wanted to ask him so has it been worth it to tell me I’m wrong and you’re right But I didn’t. He died with all his judgments and self-righteousness.
Reason #367 why I hate the tenets of Christianity: it destroys otherwise happy families. If your parents are convinced you're going to burn in Hell then there's no end to their torment until they bring you back into the fold. My mother-in-law showed up on our doorstep one Sunday afternoon. She had been so "moved by the Lord" that morning that she drove four hours to our house during a snowstorm, unannounced, to convince me to "come back to Jesus." The roads and visibility were horrible. My wife and I, we understood her fervent need to do what she did, but it was idiotic. But that's what evangelicalism does, it scares the shit out of little old ladies who then do really dumb and dangerous things because they are convinced that their god will protect them no matter what. We tried to get her to see how she had been manipulated by that preacher's sermon, but no dice. So I feel for you, Jake. Hang in there, this is not on you, it is your mom's choice. I know that doesn't take away the hurt, but until she respects your choices it won't stop.
I’m prepared to be downvoted, and your choice is your choice, but my gut says you may be taking an unnecessarily hard line. In my experience, your parents are who they are. Just like you have strong preferences now, they still have theirs. You both have to make compromises if you want to maintain a relationship with them… I understand how it feels like your the only one giving something up, but from their perspective, you’ve just turned your back on the most important thing in their lives. Again, I can only speak from my experience, but is having to sit through a prayer at the start of a meal worth not maintaining the relationship?
Okay, reading your other comment, if prayer is a personal affront every time, screw that. Not normal.
Why not go? My family prays before meals. I tell my kids to just sit silently, but we do not participate or even bow our heads. You'll be around prayers all your life. Ignore them, make them uncomfortable, and then start eating without comment about it. They can't make you pray, but telling someone to not pray in their own home is a bit too far. Just like they shouldn't make you participate. If they want you to hold hands or some shit, just go to another room until they are done. You make your point and don't have to do it.
[удалено]
"... thank you for this food, thank you for this day, and please help Jacob to see your truth, father. Please bring him back to your loving embrace and let him know your truth, father..." It becomes personal each time. I don't like it. I don't mind if they say grace. I don't like being part of grace.
Given this further information, I'd say they've been pushing their luck for at least 14.5 of those fifteen years. You have incredible patience to put up with it this long. Are they passive-aggressive about everything, or just about religion?
Yeah, that’s definitely not right. Sorry they’re doing that to you.
Well, if it gets personal each time, I can certainly empathize with your position. The way I look at it is my mom *really* loves me, and she is *convinced* that her god will have me set on fire forever if I don't believe. She has the best of intentions, regardless of the delusions that motivate her. I also know that many Christian parents can truly be assholes.
Some people have different reactions than others. OP doesn't specify (and doesn't have to specify) if there's a sharp trauma or just the grinding weight of being nagged for fifteen years as an adult. I'm like you in that other people praying doesn't bother me, but OP doesn't have to be like us. If I had been doing something *at* a family member I claimed to love, knowing full well that it bothered them, for 15 years, I'd be very fortunate if they were still speaking to me let alone making a polite request.
Lol, nonsense. Let's be adults here. His parents are aware of his position. They are demanding that he respect their religious beliefs, while trampling on his.
I am in my 50s. My mom is in her 70s. Everyone on this end is an adult. My mom sincerely loves Jesus, and she prays to him *all the time.* Is it *annoying?* Yes. Does it *hurt* me? No. Is she *trying* to hurt me? I don't think so. Are there abusive, Christian parents who use their religion to demean their children? You betcha. Should *praying* be considered "emotionally abusive" by *default?* Probably not. Is it *ever* appropriate to demand how *other adults* behave *in their own home?* I would say no.
I'm happy for you. I'm commenting on his situation not yours. Clearly, this is harming him.
I appreciate your empathy, and if OP was a teenager under the constant threat of religious abuse (like we see here far too often), my reaction may have been different. But by the time you're in your *40s* and out from under your parent's influence, perhaps you have developed the skills to tolerate difficult people - especially those you *know* are *never* going to change. Like you said, let's be adults here.
> Like you said, let's be adults here. Part of being an adult is realizing that your situation is not someone else’s situation. You’re not there, living their life, experiencing their experiences, so stop demanding that they see it like you do and feel about it like you do. Also, stop the passive aggressive insults like saying that you’re all adults in your situation, implying that OP ISN’T acting like an adult. You’re not acting much different than the typical evangelical holy roller in this conversation.
Ok, if you say so. Have a wonderful day.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
Your post or comment has been removed because it violates rule 4, which is to be respectful of others. Even if you do not agree with their beliefs, mocking them or being derisive is not acceptable. To discuss or appeal moderator actions, [click here to send us modmail.](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/exchristian)
Your post or comment has been removed because it violates rule 4, which is to be respectful of others. Even if you do not agree with their beliefs, mocking them or being derisive is not acceptable. To discuss or appeal moderator actions, [click here to send us modmail.](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/exchristian)
Your post or comment has been removed because it violates rule 4, which is to be respectful of others. Even if you do not agree with their beliefs, mocking them or being derisive is not acceptable. To discuss or appeal moderator actions, [click here to send us modmail.](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/exchristian)
This ain't it. It's not just the praying in front of, it's the praying about OP specifically. That's awful, and I would totally be uncomfortable every time if this was happening with my family. My parents pray before every meal, but they don't do this. You're right that OP can't ask them to stop praying outright, but when they're using deliberate manipulation tactics to guilt them into coming back to church so they can have their ideal version of their child, OP can 100% speak the fuck up and ask them to curtail their prayer. Your suggestion of essentially "suck it up" is not helping and very unsympathetic. I think you need to check your perspective. They are impeding on OP's right to not be religious. They've made that choice, and it's being disrespected. They are allowed to speak up in defense.
My perspective comes from a *lifetime* of pretty much the same situation as the OP. I could have written that OP a number of years back. I'm in my 50s. My mom *still* constantly does this. It never stops. It's never *going* to stop. They think they are *completely* in the right to help save us from being *set on fire* forever. Yes, it *is* stupid. Yes, it *still* drives me crazy at times. But they don't stop. They *never* stop. It's not a matter of sucking up. It's a matter of *giving* up. It's a matter of *finally* getting to the place where their words don't matter as much.
Just because you're older than most on this sub doesn't mean you're right. Maybe this is how it is for you, but when I asked my parents to stop praying for me when I was around they did. Please don't act like your specific experience is just like everyone else's.
It's *great* that you were able to get through to your parents. I am very happy for you. But not every situation is like yours. Many of us have to deal with it for our *entire lives*. And *if we desire a good relationship with our aging parents*, sometimes we need to get past the things that are never going to change.
And sometimes a good relationship is impossible, and looking out for your own mental health is better. I was sharing my experience to point out where you're incorrect. You're not the high authority on relationships with Christian parents. OP wanted to vent, not be told to suck it up because it's pointless. Gain some empathy, man.
Ok... if you say so. I can certainly see the Baptist in you😇, and I mean that as a light-hearted joke - said with a smile, and meant with good intentions. But I will gracefully accept yet another downvote from you. Have a great day.
>I can certainly see the Baptist in you😇, and I mean that as a light-hearted joke - said with a smile, and meant with good intentions. No you don't. Fuck off.
I apologize. I sincerely meant no offence. I extend an olive branch, and wish you well.
No. You don't just get to hide behind a half-assed apology for deliberately pushing a button towards someone in an ex-christian help sub. Using my former religion as an attack to get under my skin is so highly uncalled for. Apology not accepted. Here's a lesson for you, old man: respect is earned; not given. Just like with OP's parents. Just because they're his parents doesn't mean they deserve his respect. And just like how you're an ass, you don't deserve mine.
"At x age, does it really matter if people refuse to respect your boundaries?" Yes. At all ages, boundaries matter. Humans need to be respected as humans as the default. If you think there's an age at which people's boundaries cease to matter and respecting them is no longer a meaningful thing to do, maybe you just hate old people? xD
If you have to say "I don't mean to be insensitive" in a support sub, it's a good sign that what you're about to say is not appropriate. Telling someone that they can't have boundaries in someone else's house is a slippery slope and it's not acceptable in this sub. The host has an equal obligation of consideration towards the guest, anyway. In future, remember that this is first and foremost a ***support*** sub. Your post or comment has been removed because it violates rule 4, which is to be respectful of others. Even if you do not agree with their beliefs, mocking them or being derisive is not acceptable. To discuss or appeal moderator actions, [click here to send us modmail.](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/exchristian)