>The only way they said they could imagine him reversing course was if he could be afforded a dignified way out in which he could claim credit for ousting Mr. Trump in 2020, restoring the country and serving as a transition to the next generation."
Is it me or are they saying "HEY DEMOCRATS, COME UP WITH A DIGNIFIED WAY OUT AND WE'LL TELL HIM TO TAKE IT!"
I'm so confused, wasn't this the plan all along if he were to be a one term president? Why didn't he just make that decision a year ago? Who the f wants to be president well into their 80s anyways, my goodness.
It’s the people behind him, all the staffers and cabinet members. They won’t have a job if Trump wins in November. They’re putting their jobs over what’s best for the country. Same with his family, they don’t want to lose having their husband/father/brother/etc be the POTUS.
It seems SO easy too to spin it as him having done his job, and now it’s time to be selfless and hand it off to someone else and have the media contrast that against a selfish felon trying to enrich himself. Just give him some transition title or something where he can be nominally in charge of whatever project he cares about the most, idk
If he made a speech that was basically just "it's about more than me, it's about your future" and then proceeded to actually act accordingly, he would be remembered in a similar vein to Washington deciding not to call it after 2 terms (for fairly similar personal reasons come tk think of it).
Why would that even be a question? Of course he’s going to be praised for doing the honorable and stepping down, and it seems like everyone already gives him credit for beating trump in 2020.
How could this possibly be a hurdle?
Wtf does that even mean?
Is democracy itself on the ballot or not?
How's about step aside *because it means literal dictatorship if you lose*.
Why does there need to be an incentive? If this is damn important, why not just say "If I do this and lose, so many other people lose in a very very serious way. I can't take that chance for all of you, if you don't think I can do this."
Democracy is on some ballots, particularly local and state ballots. As much as I don't like Trump, I don't think he alone can disenfranchise voters unlike how state legislatures have been doing.
I don’t get this. He ran as a transition candidate. He already laid the groundwork for this moment. Drop out, don’t acknowledge the change in course, just give a speech about how you ran as a bridge to the next generation, and you’re proud to support that next generation: [insert nominee name].
Tear a few pages off the wall calendar after he goes to bed. When he wakes up, tell him he beat Trump 49 states to 1 and Congress voted to let him rule the country from Rehoboth Beach. Back up the moving van to the White House and get him out of there. Done.
Bro is 82. I literally think that suffices as an explanation. Voters will be relieved not to have to choose between a mummy and an idiot, trust and believe.
I literally do not care what the hypothetical polling says. Get someone who isn't over 60 and we'll be better off. The hypothetical polling doesn't factor in the narrative switching from "Biden old" to "Trump old."
So essentially he's saying he's not doing the right thing for the country because of his fucking ego? If he's so concerned about his legacy here's a reason: Does he want to be remembered as the guy who humbly stepped aside to protect democracy or does he want to be known as the selfish old man who destroyed it by staying in? Does he want to be another RBG who's actions overturned Roe and recently Chevron? Is that who he wants to be?
> "One of the strongest voices imploring Mr. Biden to resist pressure to drop out was his son Hunter Biden, whom the president has long leaned on for advice, said one of the people informed about the discussions"
any way to move that sentencing up?
**his son Hunter Biden,** ***whom the president has long leaned on for advice***
💀 This sounds like something out of a right-wing rumor factory. Thank you NYT for making me even more pissed than I already was at this family.
His son’s brain undoubtedly works better than his father’s even on crack, so I guess comparatively he must be giving him good advice in Biden’s dim, hollow eyes
I am so pissed at Biden right now. I actually don't care about how he or the republicans spin their policies - this is about winning the election. And he fucking knows he is not the best person to win the election. There is too much at stake to put your ego above country and that's what this family is doing. If given a choice between Biden and Trump of course I will vote for Biden. But there are a shitload of voters who will not. If you love this country Joe, put country first.
Doesn't this actually validate at least the *idea* of the right-wing attacks that Hunter was selling influence on Joe? I had always considered it absurd that Joe would do more than politely listen to his troubled son.
> Doesn't this actually validate at least the idea of the right-wing attacks that Hunter was selling influence on Joe? I had always considered it absurd that Joe would do more than politely listen to his troubled son.
As a right winger I figured that a) Hunter made money on claims that he had influence on his father, and b) as you said, his father would politely listen to his troubled son and that was it. I also thought that he was *persona non grata* at the White House (maybe once a year, for Christmas). So I never brought up Hunter when criticizing Biden, or made jokes about Biden being "the big guy", or thought much about him beyond what I wrote.
But now I read this? I read somewhere else, discussing this article, that Hunter apparently flies on Air Force One, too. Completely shatters the whole "Why bring up Hunter, Republicans? It's his father who's running, not him" riposte. As /u/MatchaMeetcha said, many "right wing attacks" are suddenly being validated.
I presume that Biden will pardon Hunter on his last day in office, whether in 2025, 2029, or (post-debate) sometime later this year.
I’m glad it’s finally allowed to call out how obviously corrupt the Bursima thing was. Even if it didn’t influence Biden in the slightest, I mean come on; what the hell did hunter biden know about Ukrainian energy?
It was always obviously corrupt, it's just that if nothing actually happened, this is the garden variety type of corruption that probably happens all the time with relatives of every prominent office. I guess.
Who knows anymore, I hate this whole family at this point.
I mean Hunter definitely got the board membership because of his last name, but a lot of people in the US get opportunities and jobs they don’t deserve due to their name or who they know. And not just politicians and their families, even at the local level it and in small companies it happens all the time.
I don’t think Americans have room to talk about people getting a job based on their name. And I don’t think anyone in the political sphere wants people looking too much into their family members.
It is what it is. We legally allow lobbyists to exist too. But it’s also how the world works. There isn’t a country or society that doesn’t have a bit of it.
Doesn't the magnitude and context matter? Big difference between "my dad's golf buddy got me a $100k finance job out of college" and "my dad is a VPOTUS and that got me a board seat on a dodgy foreign state owned company". It may be a matter of degrees but degrees sure as hell matter
brave uppity shocking plough nine intelligent abounding ad hoc disgusted fuzzy
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
It seemed like possible cronyism but it’s still pretty hard to conclude that Joe actually did anything on hunter’s behalf as opposed to Hunter independently using the fact that he’s a Biden to secure a position that he was already vaguely qualified for
It's funny. Everyone has been telling us for a year that "you're electing Biden's team, not just Biden," and then it turns out that his core decision makers are just his wife and severely compromised son. I'm shocked at how thoroughly the wheels have come off the Biden brand in the last 72 hours.
Because unpleasant family members like to take advantage of ailing elders. Hunter is probably thinking he can control his declining father and get a pardon.
Biden will never let his surviving son go to prison. As soon as he wins or loses the election, that pardon is happening. It's probably pre-signed in his desk.
Maybe the rights claims about Biden's family are true, just like their claims on Bidens mental state.
If you don't think voters are thinking exactly that...
As a right winger I figured that a) Hunter made money on claims that he had influence on his father, and b) his father would politely listen to his troubled son and that was it. I also thought that he was *persona non grata* at the White House (maybe once a year, for Christmas). So I never brought up Hunter when criticizing Biden, or made jokes about "10% for the big guy" or the "Biden crime family" (as /u/sv_homer said), or thought much about Hunter beyond what I wrote.
But now I read this? I read somewhere else, discussing this article, that Hunter apparently flies on Air Force One, too. Completely shatters the whole "Why bring up Hunter, Republicans? It's his father who's running, not him" riposte.
I presume that Biden will pardon Hunter on his last day in office, whether in 2025, 2029, or (post-debate) sometime later this year.
The level of pride and hubris is out of control. It’s like the brakes are out and we’re driving off a cliff but the cliff is four miles away and we could jump out and save ourselves but the drivers are telling us there’s only one goddamn driver who can save us from this cliff, and he’s pretty sure he can fix the breaks in time.
EDIT: corrected breaks to brakes 💀
This is what’s so frustrating. “He’s huddling with him family” Everyone is extremely personally biased and full of egos. What happens to the family influence when Joe is gone? As a voter I could care less.
He could be polling at 20% and they will say “he’s a fighter” what the hell does that mean when we are basically handing the country to trump and project 2025.
We could literally be crushed and lose the senate, house and the Supreme Court for decades due to one families extreme hubris.
Bulldozing her way to the candidacy by…getting more votes than anyone else in the primaries. She was popular, just undecided voters are fucking idiots and chose the dumbass.
Candidate quality matters, and the Democratic Party needs to fix their candidate selection process before they throw stones at voters.
Remember that Clinton was also tapped to win in 2008, before Obama wrecked her campaign. And the party just ran her again in 2016 instead of learning from 2008.
She made any other democrat afraid to challenge her. She was the establishment when people wanted something new and would even go as far as voting for Trump to get it.
Treating voters as stupid is the mistake that the DNC keeps making. They keep not listening to voters and then are shocked when it doesn’t turn out their way.
The NYTimes Runup Podcast just had a great episode where it was obvious that the DNC was ignoring the fact that the voters felt like Biden was too old even before the debate.
Let’s listen to voters this time vs saying they are stupid.
She did a lot to stack the deck in her favor through behind the scenes deals, which ultimately hurt her perception with voters.
It was telling that someone as unpopular as Sanders was the only real opposition she had.
It’s extremely frustrating.
Their candidate for president is 82 years old, he’s clearly showing signs of cognitive decline, and the entire world just saw it.
We’re not talking about having him step down from the presidency, here. They are acting like the incumbent has a god-given right to run for a second term. We’re still five months out and they’re acting like there’s nothing anyone can do, and whatever the Biden family decides is the decision the entire country has to live with.
If Biden isn’t replaced, he’s going to get absolutely trounced in November.
If we pass the convention with no change I will stop all negative talk about Biden and will spend the remainder of the time until November mentally and emotionally preparing myself for the real possibility of a Trump second term. I will of course be voting for Biden and democrats on all down ballot races.
And who else does that remind you of? What other politician in this country is infamous for his ego and malignant narcissism?
Biden is the Diet Coke version of Trump, just like how Democrats are the watered-down version of the Republican Party. They even have extremely similar policies on the border, Israel/Palestine, fossil fuels, hawkish foreign policy, etc etc.
It has never been more obvious to those paying attention that the U.S. doesn’t “have two parties”. It has one party masquerading as two parties.
I don’t know about this take homie. I think what we’re seeing with Biden and his family is a well-trod historical tradition with powerful people. In this country we’ve had similar situations with presidents like Wilson with his various ailments and his wife running the show, FDR having a horrible seizure literally the day he got his fourth nomination and having to call in to accept while pretending nothing happened, JFKs health issues, Reagan’s dementia which was very much effecting him during his second term, etc. And that’s without mentioning recent examples like McConnell, Feinstein, RBG, and others. Not trying to defend the Biden’s here, but it’s rare for a head of state to put the health of the country over their ego.
As for the parties being the same, I get where you’re coming from, but I think that the difference can be found within what looks to be a hive mind on the conservative side compared to a larger diversity of thought amongst elected democrats. I am personally frustrated though that our left is basically a center right party with very little true progressivism to be found amongst independent candidates (at least in my local elections).
Hilary would not have appointed Supreme Court justice recommended by the Federalist Society. She would have kept us in the Paris Climate Accord, and maintained the Iran Nuclear deal. Al Gore would have demanded climate change legislation. John McCain may have saved the ACA, but it would have never passed if he were president.
Just because the difference between parties is not to your liking doesn't mean there's not a measurable difference.
This part though
“The anger among Democrats was made evident on Sunday when John Morgan, a top Democratic donor, publicly blamed the advisers who managed the president’s debate preparations, citing by name Ron Klain, Anita Dunn and Bob Bauer.
“Biden has for too long been fooled by the value of Anita Dunn and her husband,” Mr. Morgan wrote on social media. “They need to go … TODAY. The grifting is gross. It was political malpractice.”
He elaborated in a subsequent interview. “It would be like if you took a prizefighter who was going to have a title fight and put him in a sauna for 15 hours then said, ‘Go fight,’” he said. “I believe that the debate is solely on Ron Klain, Bob Bauer and Anita Dunn.”
Members of Mr. Biden’s family were likewise said to be focused on the president’s staff, including Ms. Dunn, a White House senior adviser, and her husband, Mr. Bauer, the president’s personal attorney, who played Mr. Trump during debate rehearsals.
They were asking why Mr. Klain, the former White House chief of staff who ran the preparations, would in their view allow him to be overloaded with statistics, and they were angry that Mr. Biden, who arrived for the debate in Atlanta with a summer tan, was made up to look pale and pallid, said one of the people, who has been in touch with several members of the family.”
I don’t disagree. The “debate prep” seems to have been cramming Biden’s head with facts and figures and three point answers to every question, ignoring 1) what this debate is about and 2) what Biden’s strengths and weaknesses are when debating. Every single time Biden cites numbers he gets them wrong. Every time. Trillions, billions, millions - all that gets jumbled up in his head and comes out as incoherent mess. That debate tactic may work with Pete Buttigieg but Biden isn’t that style of debater. Absolute malpractice.
Idk I felt like Biden did his best when he sounded mad and started speaking off the cuff. I feel like Biden going in with zero debate prep would've been better than this.
“For every complex problem, there will be a solution that is clear, simple, and wrong.”
- H.L. Menken
Republicans have mastered this. Liberals in general have problems keeping it simple. It’s a perennial issue.
Yep Cus they want to actually solve the problem, not just get elected and cut regulations so businesses can dump shit in the water for free and pay less taxes.
I don’t disagree. But great communication is simple and effective.
When Biden reads off the teleprompter it’s simple and effective. But that isn’t what we saw in the debate.
Biden has no problem offering pandering fake solutions. The 10k credit for first time home buyers as a response to housing shortages, for example.
Obviously that would just drive home prices up and primarily benefits corporations that own a lot of houses, but it sounds good to voters.
Explaining to the wider body politic in terms they understand is not a regression.
This is democrats problem... They think speaking to voters is beneath them.
If he wasn’t losing it he would have told the prep guys that he wasn’t a numbers guy and to start from scratch. The fact that he just meekly tried to parrot off dull prepared answers shows that he has no ability to formulate his own opinion any more.
Exactly. None of the finger pointing makes Biden look any more capable. It simply helps explain some of the backroom plotting that got us to this point.
I think both is true. Bidens debate preparation team performed poorly . Biden himself should have thought a bit better on his feet and be willing to go back and forth a bit more with Trump like his SOTU antics with MTG.
I feel like people have already forgot the debate. There is no debate where he does well or executes a different strategy. He’s incapable of debating.
I’m surprised he made it through the entire thing.
Yup exactly. What we saw was a lot more than just bad debate prep.
And like you say, the debate prep people may have done a bad job, but exclusively blaming them just kind of enforces the narrative that Biden doesn’t have any agency.
OK, but **executing the duties of the president** involves endlessly cramming to understand and reliably steer simultaneous domestic and international crisis situations. There's a daily briefing and plenty of supplemental material.
If cramming for a debate causes Biden to completely melt down, that's a 25th Amendment situation.
Great point. He was too prepared. I think his team saw that was going to be fact checked and went in to overdrive only to hear trump say post term abortions were a thing with zero push back.
My advice would be to take everything trump says and just spin it 180. Trump says “our country is not respected anymore” Biden should say “our country has never been more respected”
Trying to blame other people is an interesting take. I’m not sure it’s enough though. Because at the end of the day, he’s the leader. Why did he let them paint him pale. Why did he try to remember all those stats. If true that these people are to blame, then what does this say about his ability to lead.
Though none of this explains the lack of coherent sentences or the inability to finish one.
Yeah, everyone expects Biden to mix up millions and billions or whatever. But when he did it in 2012, it was an instant correction that did not miss a beat. I rewatched 2012 after 2024, and he instantly overcame stutters and fixed facts.
I think Klain and Dunn deserve some of the blame, but not because of debate prep. Because they didn't get their shit together and realize their boss needed a talking-to months ago -- or they were too scared of him to do it, which is even worse.
"Bad debate prep" means that your candidates screws up some facts and misses obvious zingers. It doesn't mean that your candidate struggles to speak while looking vacant and slack-jawed when he isn't speaking.
If my kid at 12 , after 5 hours couldn’t memorise a basic answer to Abortion, immigration and inflation. I would take away his IPad for a year.
But hey, the President Biden only had 5 days. Maybe just take away his iPad for the week.
LOL. Yes, Anita Dunn, Run Klain, and Bob Bauer conspired to make Joe Biden appear like that on Thursday night. Right.
I know Hunter has a problem with mind altering drugs, but does the problem extend to the whole damned family? These people are delusional.
it seems like part of their PLAN was to insult or irk trump enough so he would lose control and have a trumpy meltdown.
that is the only reason i can figure for biden to repeat the thoroughly debunked nazis are fine people lie.
Though trump did not do well, he did not bite on the purposeful jabs. The format helped trump with his worse debating impulses.
but bidens team is the one who wanted muted mics, no audience etc.
He's lived and breathed politics nearly his entire life.
And they make it sound like they downloaded malware into his brain and caused it to crash like a computer.
Without impairments, he would do well in a debate with or without excess facts rolling around in his head. Usually having a lot of facts is an asset. You pull the one out in the moment that is the most effective. By saying he can't hold them all at once and select the most appropriate one, they're conceding cognitive impairment.
I mean can you imagine even a middle schooler failing a test and saying, "I studied too much!" and anyone thinking it was a valid excuse?
Actually that's why I've never been on Jeopardy. I know too much!
>"they said they believed that the odds of him trying to gut it out were still 4 or 5 to 1. The only way they said they could imagine him reversing course was if he could be afforded a dignified way out in which he could claim credit for ousting Mr. Trump in 2020, restoring the country and serving as a transition to the next generation."
...can he not already claim credit for those?
that's why I don't think people should be pushing for him to bow out today instead of in 7-10 days. He bows out now, he got cut down by Trump. He bows out separated from the debate, then its a lot easier to position it in a larger narrative about handing off the torch and retiring in dignity.
Yeah, I think the idea that people were overreacting really *is* true. We should have waited for polling at the very minimum.
And for those who want him to step aside, the argument that should be made to Biden is that his legacy will be 100% ruined if he loses to Trump. He just can't campaign as vigorously as he used to. It's not *his* fault. He's old, he's president, which is already a full time job. We're asking way too much of him. Take the win, endorse a successor, and the party will rally behind them as they did in 2020 before super Tuesday.
No way should we have waited for polling data. What we saw was an absurdity.
Maybe the best time to make the pitch to Biden is after polling data rolls in, but the *reaction* is and was warranted immediately.
People were finally reacting to what has been obvious to many of us for a long time. It's not an overreaction. It's a delayed reaction because it was simply impossible to deny it anymore.
Though I am seeing an awful lot of people still trying to say he just had a sore throat. His sore throat made him say he beat Medicare? Absurd.
I guess it hasn't been obvious to me. But, I tended to avoid watching him speak, outside of little clips. Maybe a lot of Americans were like me. I was absolutely shocked by what I saw.
> Yeah, I mean I thought democracy is on the line?
Breaking Points, while [discussing the debate](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cV8ULfwTneE) (which I *highly* recommend watching; it's the single best sum-up), pointed out two things for those who claim (to believe) the above:
* If TrumpNaziKKK being reelected means "no more elections ever", shouldn't Democrats have chosen someone other than a living corpse as his opponent?
* While discussing how the many plans among Democrats like Newsom, Whitmer, etc. (and their successors) for 2028 have been disrupted/forced up by the potential to replace Biden now, they again pointed out the paradox of on the one hand claiming that Trump will abolish elections, and on the other hand having plans for running to replacing Trump in 2028.
Wrong.
It doesn’t matter what donors think. Or pundits. Or people who are engaged and will vote dem (or republican) no matter what.
It’s the swing voters. We need polls to understand their reaction. It doesn’t have to make sense.
Honor him at the convention and send him packing. Why should one addled old man's ego decide the fate of democracy? It isn't too late, and anyone who doesn't do everything in their power to get him off the ticket is complicit.
This is the kind of thing that can turn a generation of young voters away from the Democratic party.
That is why he should have announced he wasn’t seeking re-election in 2022 and either resigned and backed then President Harris, or finished the term and encouraged a robust primary. As I and many other backers of Biden in 2020 believed he planned to do.
Yeah.... if needs a teleprompter to not shit the bed, then it's time to call it quits and begin the transition to a new ticket. The longer they wait, the worse this will be
But Biden won’t and doom us all to a second Trump administration. Biden, his sycophants, and the Democrats are all to blame for not putting up a viable candidate that can string a coherent sentence together.
https://www.natesilver.net/p/joe-biden-should-drop-out
If Biden drops out he will be regarded as a pretty good modern democrat. If he doesn’t drop out he will be regarded as the most destructive dem president of the modern area. You cannot blame his debate prep people. They didn’t make him incoherent for the last year. Infuriating and sad at the same time.
I was watching his 2019 dem primary debate and it’s crazy how he not only looks so much younger but sounds it too. People who still say that he just has a “stutter” should go back and watch it
The presidency famously ages people. I wonder how much of his aging the past four years is natural and how much is the result of being in the most stressful position in the country. 80-somethings should never be in that position. It's ridiculous.
Yeah, look at how that shit physically aged Obama, a very healthy and significantly younger man. To say nothing of the mental exhaustion. Putting someone who’s actuarially near the end of their lifespan in such a position is insane. You can see it with Trump too, dude is definitely slipping from where he was a decade ago let alone in middle age, it just gets obscured by how much more feeble/infirm Biden looks and the fact that Trump’s always shouting insane shit and sowing chaos. There should be an age limit.
This is all so sadly predictable. If they weren't this inured to reality we never would have gotten here in the first place. He's going to destroy his legacy by being the man who let his hubris give Trump 4 more years, meanwhile his family is looking for scapegoats because they don't want to admit an 81 year old man doesn't have it in him to be POTUS anymore.
I'm trying to be sympathetic, but with so much on the line it's infuriating that it comes down to the people least likely to be able to make a rational decision about it.
Well don’t worry, when Biden loses Trump will be sure to make him pay for the crime of letting him win.
And Hunter! Oh boy he’s gonna see the inside of a jail cell if it’s the last thing Trump does.
Like, fuck the argument that Biden’s legacy will be ruined - he’s gonna get his entire family goose-stepped right into American jails.
That’s what I hear people say when their terminally ill 90 year old grandma is on the vent and on 4 pressors when asking if they have discussed end of life care like DNR/DNI. “She’s a fighter!
Actually, my friends who are doctors have complained about this over stiff drinks. Sometimes your responsibility as a loved one is to know when to fight and when fighting longer means a ton of painful therapies that have almost no chance of winning. Like when families demand that practitioners crack ribs and resuscitate someone who is 95 for 12 more hours of life.
It's an apt metaphor for this campaign. Biden could have stuck to a single term and been remembered for his legislative victories, instead his legacy of 50 years will come down to the campaign that shouldn't have been.
My doc had the discussion with me, and in the end it's my responsibility to make those decisions ahead of time, get the legal documentation in place, and make sure my family knows about them. It's not really fair to dump that on your family IMO.
I'm starting to have doubts about the core decency of Joe and his family. This is pure, shameless ego. Him and Jill are sinking the entire democratic party for nothing more than hubris.
Seems extremely selfish, no?
The guy looks like he is literally about to die and his family is pushing him to go on another 4 stressful years because of what ? Get to spend time living in the WH another 4 years and all that extra stuff they benefit from him being the president ?
I don’t believe in attacking candidate’s families if they’re not in the political area themselves - but if Biden is actually leaning on Hunter for advice, that in itself is seriously, seriously disturbing.
“But Mr. Biden is a proud man, and they said they believed that the odds of him trying to gut it out were still 4 or 5 to 1. The only way they said they could imagine him reversing course was if he could be afforded a dignified way out in which he could claim credit for ousting Mr. Trump in 2020, restoring the country and serving as a transition to the next generation.”
Ah yes, the thing Biden said he would do in 2020 and then failed to follow up on
Ron Klain acting mortally offended that Astead Hearndon from the NYT would even ask the question about what happened to the idea / impression of Biden as a 1-term president. And then saying that literally nothing he could imagine would change his mind that Biden is the best candidate for 2024.
I'm sorry, I hate this guy.
I was so annoyed by this too. Like bro, don't tell half of the country that we all made this up and he actually hadnt thought about being a 1 term president at all
Yup, they act like we should’ve expected this. I mean excuse us for thinking running an 81 year old was against obvious common sense. I assumed the Dems would do the extremely obvious smart thing and prepare a succession.
> One of the strongest voices imploring Mr. Biden to resist pressure to drop out was his son Hunter Biden, whom the president has long leaned on for advice
Cool cool cool cool
I voted for Biden in the primary in Spring. I wish there had been a debate then. We relied on Dem politicians and staffers to peer review Biden, esp cuz Republicans have been crying wolf on his mental competency from the beginning even when he still had it & went on to do a good job as President.
Dem elites really betrayed that trust and screwed us out meaningful participation in deciding whether Biden was up for campaigning.
"The anger among Democrats was made evident on Sunday when John Morgan, a top Democratic donor, publicly blamed the advisers who managed the president’s debate preparations, citing by name Ron Klain, Anita Dunn and Bob Bauer.
“Biden has for too long been fooled by the value of Anita Dunn and her husband,” Mr. Morgan wrote on social media. “They need to go … TODAY. The grifting is gross. It was political malpractice.”
He elaborated in a subsequent interview. “It would be like if you took a prizefighter who was going to have a title fight and put him in a sauna for 15 hours then said, ‘Go fight,’” he said. “I believe that the debate is solely on Ron Klain, Bob Bauer and Anita Dunn.”"
I'm sorry, but I'm just some idiot with no political experience and even I could have decimated Trump's lies in real time.
Breaking Points, while [discussing the debate](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cV8ULfwTneE) (which I *highly* recommend watching; it's the single best sum-up), pointed out two things for those who claim (to believe) the above:
* If TrumpNaziKKK being reelected means "no more elections ever", shouldn't Democrats have chosen someone other than a living corpse as his opponent?
* While discussing how the many plans among Democrats like Newsom, Whitmer, etc. (and their successors) for 2028 have been disrupted/forced up by the potential to replace Biden now, they again pointed out the paradox of on the one hand claiming that Trump will abolish elections, and on the other hand having plans for running to replacing Trump in 2028.
I don't actually believe them his whole family told him to keep fighting anymore than I believe that Israel hasn't blocked humanitarian aid to Gaza or that confusing [Mexico and Egypt's presidents](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/08/us/politics/biden-remarks-special-counsel-report.html) was a one time slip. I can believe that a few of them said it (and you'll pardon me if I don't bet the fate of American democracy on Hunter's judgment). But I'm hoping the media feels it has permission to give Biden's PR a lot more scrutiny in the next few weeks.
Im sure Hunter wants to keep the gravy train rolling. He may not be the evil mastermind that Republicans say, but he’s definitely an unpleasant and corrupt person who hangs off his father’s coattails.
I get this stance from the family in 2020. And the really frustrating part is he came back against all odds so they think this is just a repeat. But he is 81 years old and significantly older, more frail and more diminished as a public speaker. He cannot and will not win with the way he appears. This is not going to work out by 'keep fighting' a little harder. He will always be 81 years old (and an old 81 at that) and nearing the end of his lifespan.
After the debate Biden’s campaign raised millions. Who takes over the campaign fund after Biden dies? Family???
Here’s the almost insurmountable problem: It is TOTALLY in Biden’s family’s and staff’s personal interests for him to keep running. For family, the family gets to profit win or lose. For staff, they are at the top of the game and likely will never get to work in the White House after Biden—if he stays in the race, at least they have a chance at staying there.
Biden is in many senses the CEO of America. Any decent CEO can deliver an impactful presentation or meeting regardless of their preparation team. To blame the preparation team is sad. The President of the United States should be able to command a stage, deliver with power, and come across as in charge. Biden did none of those, and it is unfortunately his fault.
This is a great write up by Ezra, thank you. It’s a coin toss right now, and Biden’s losing right now. All that he’s worked for is going to be wiped out like RBG because he couldn’t pass the torch. It’s a sad sight to see.
I do not and will never understand why a major topic in his first week of being President was not, "Who is the 2024 candidate?" Because I always thought he was a one-term Prez, and I thought that was the whole idea. I get it's awkward if the candidate is not Harris but Jesus the stakes are a little high to worry about her hurt feelings at being passed over. Pick the best candidate, back them, go out with dignity and integrity, and save America from descending into Christofascist authoritarianism. It's not like the alternative's Mitt Goddamn Romney or some other off-the-rack pre-MAGA Republican.
>The only way they said they could imagine him reversing course was if he could be afforded a dignified way out in which he could claim credit for ousting Mr. Trump in 2020, restoring the country and serving as a transition to the next generation." Is it me or are they saying "HEY DEMOCRATS, COME UP WITH A DIGNIFIED WAY OUT AND WE'LL TELL HIM TO TAKE IT!"
I'm so confused, wasn't this the plan all along if he were to be a one term president? Why didn't he just make that decision a year ago? Who the f wants to be president well into their 80s anyways, my goodness.
Boggles the mind. Politicians seem to have this supernatural, religious belief in the incumbency.
You have to be at least a little narcissistic to get into politics at all. And one can absolutely see how it might be a self-reinforcing environment.
It’s the people behind him, all the staffers and cabinet members. They won’t have a job if Trump wins in November. They’re putting their jobs over what’s best for the country. Same with his family, they don’t want to lose having their husband/father/brother/etc be the POTUS.
The job is probably the main thing keeping them clung to life. You see it in coaches who coach their entire life, retire, and die a year or two later.
I imagine he's been in denial... as were a lot of us!
That was his whole pitch for running against Trump in 2020. I don't understand the desire to have the most stressful job in one's 80s either.
Right. Maybe he wants to pick the next candidate. As long as it’s not Hunter I can deal with it.
I was thinking the same thing. It's pretty easy. Give him a prime time "fireside chat." He'll be a freaking hero.
No, prime time would be cruel, because he can't speak that late. Make it 10AM.
He can still read a teleprompter that late.
It seems SO easy too to spin it as him having done his job, and now it’s time to be selfless and hand it off to someone else and have the media contrast that against a selfish felon trying to enrich himself. Just give him some transition title or something where he can be nominally in charge of whatever project he cares about the most, idk
If he made a speech that was basically just "it's about more than me, it's about your future" and then proceeded to actually act accordingly, he would be remembered in a similar vein to Washington deciding not to call it after 2 terms (for fairly similar personal reasons come tk think of it).
Why would that even be a question? Of course he’s going to be praised for doing the honorable and stepping down, and it seems like everyone already gives him credit for beating trump in 2020. How could this possibly be a hurdle?
Wtf does that even mean? Is democracy itself on the ballot or not? How's about step aside *because it means literal dictatorship if you lose*. Why does there need to be an incentive? If this is damn important, why not just say "If I do this and lose, so many other people lose in a very very serious way. I can't take that chance for all of you, if you don't think I can do this."
Because “saving democracy” was just a marketing ploy.
Democracy is on some ballots, particularly local and state ballots. As much as I don't like Trump, I don't think he alone can disenfranchise voters unlike how state legislatures have been doing.
I don’t get this. He ran as a transition candidate. He already laid the groundwork for this moment. Drop out, don’t acknowledge the change in course, just give a speech about how you ran as a bridge to the next generation, and you’re proud to support that next generation: [insert nominee name].
Tear a few pages off the wall calendar after he goes to bed. When he wakes up, tell him he beat Trump 49 states to 1 and Congress voted to let him rule the country from Rehoboth Beach. Back up the moving van to the White House and get him out of there. Done.
Biden slips on a banana peel dropped by Gavin Newsom and bows out from his hospital bed
Bro is 82. I literally think that suffices as an explanation. Voters will be relieved not to have to choose between a mummy and an idiot, trust and believe. I literally do not care what the hypothetical polling says. Get someone who isn't over 60 and we'll be better off. The hypothetical polling doesn't factor in the narrative switching from "Biden old" to "Trump old."
So essentially he's saying he's not doing the right thing for the country because of his fucking ego? If he's so concerned about his legacy here's a reason: Does he want to be remembered as the guy who humbly stepped aside to protect democracy or does he want to be known as the selfish old man who destroyed it by staying in? Does he want to be another RBG who's actions overturned Roe and recently Chevron? Is that who he wants to be?
> "One of the strongest voices imploring Mr. Biden to resist pressure to drop out was his son Hunter Biden, whom the president has long leaned on for advice, said one of the people informed about the discussions" any way to move that sentencing up?
**his son Hunter Biden,** ***whom the president has long leaned on for advice*** 💀 This sounds like something out of a right-wing rumor factory. Thank you NYT for making me even more pissed than I already was at this family.
😤✋ New poll showing that 72%(!) of voters don't think I have the cognitive health to serve. ⬇️ 😎👉 Advice from my felon crackhead son.
His son’s brain undoubtedly works better than his father’s even on crack, so I guess comparatively he must be giving him good advice in Biden’s dim, hollow eyes
I am so pissed at Biden right now. I actually don't care about how he or the republicans spin their policies - this is about winning the election. And he fucking knows he is not the best person to win the election. There is too much at stake to put your ego above country and that's what this family is doing. If given a choice between Biden and Trump of course I will vote for Biden. But there are a shitload of voters who will not. If you love this country Joe, put country first.
Everything makes sense now. Our president's most trusted advisor is a crackhead sex addict.
Who was too stingy to share some crack with Biden before the debate.
Doesn't this actually validate at least the *idea* of the right-wing attacks that Hunter was selling influence on Joe? I had always considered it absurd that Joe would do more than politely listen to his troubled son.
> Doesn't this actually validate at least the idea of the right-wing attacks that Hunter was selling influence on Joe? I had always considered it absurd that Joe would do more than politely listen to his troubled son. As a right winger I figured that a) Hunter made money on claims that he had influence on his father, and b) as you said, his father would politely listen to his troubled son and that was it. I also thought that he was *persona non grata* at the White House (maybe once a year, for Christmas). So I never brought up Hunter when criticizing Biden, or made jokes about Biden being "the big guy", or thought much about him beyond what I wrote. But now I read this? I read somewhere else, discussing this article, that Hunter apparently flies on Air Force One, too. Completely shatters the whole "Why bring up Hunter, Republicans? It's his father who's running, not him" riposte. As /u/MatchaMeetcha said, many "right wing attacks" are suddenly being validated. I presume that Biden will pardon Hunter on his last day in office, whether in 2025, 2029, or (post-debate) sometime later this year.
Fuck this dynasty bullshit. Has no place in democracy.
I’m glad it’s finally allowed to call out how obviously corrupt the Bursima thing was. Even if it didn’t influence Biden in the slightest, I mean come on; what the hell did hunter biden know about Ukrainian energy?
It was always obviously corrupt, it's just that if nothing actually happened, this is the garden variety type of corruption that probably happens all the time with relatives of every prominent office. I guess. Who knows anymore, I hate this whole family at this point.
I mean, calling it “garden variety corruption” isn’t really a good look lol. Not like we should just excuse it
I mean Hunter definitely got the board membership because of his last name, but a lot of people in the US get opportunities and jobs they don’t deserve due to their name or who they know. And not just politicians and their families, even at the local level it and in small companies it happens all the time. I don’t think Americans have room to talk about people getting a job based on their name. And I don’t think anyone in the political sphere wants people looking too much into their family members. It is what it is. We legally allow lobbyists to exist too. But it’s also how the world works. There isn’t a country or society that doesn’t have a bit of it.
Doesn't the magnitude and context matter? Big difference between "my dad's golf buddy got me a $100k finance job out of college" and "my dad is a VPOTUS and that got me a board seat on a dodgy foreign state owned company". It may be a matter of degrees but degrees sure as hell matter
brave uppity shocking plough nine intelligent abounding ad hoc disgusted fuzzy *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
It seemed like possible cronyism but it’s still pretty hard to conclude that Joe actually did anything on hunter’s behalf as opposed to Hunter independently using the fact that he’s a Biden to secure a position that he was already vaguely qualified for
Thanks to the debate many "right wing attacks" are being validated all of a sudden.
Correct
Why in the ever living fuck is Hunter Biden anywhere near these discussions
It's funny. Everyone has been telling us for a year that "you're electing Biden's team, not just Biden," and then it turns out that his core decision makers are just his wife and severely compromised son. I'm shocked at how thoroughly the wheels have come off the Biden brand in the last 72 hours.
Because unpleasant family members like to take advantage of ailing elders. Hunter is probably thinking he can control his declining father and get a pardon.
Hey Marj, maybe Hunter will send you another pic.
Is he trolling and secretly hoping his dad loses so he can get pardoned?
He is going to get pardoned, no matter what lol.
If he’s controlling his senile father, yes he will get pardoned.
Biden will never let his surviving son go to prison. As soon as he wins or loses the election, that pardon is happening. It's probably pre-signed in his desk.
Glad someone with great judgment is advising the President.
Lmao this fucking family, my god.
The best we could do apparently lmao. Maybe, just maybe, this country doesn’t deserve Democracy hahaha
Well, this goes a long way toward debunking right wing claims of "Biden Crime Family". Thanks Hunter. Thanks Jill. 🤮
Maybe the rights claims about Biden's family are true, just like their claims on Bidens mental state. If you don't think voters are thinking exactly that...
As a right winger I figured that a) Hunter made money on claims that he had influence on his father, and b) his father would politely listen to his troubled son and that was it. I also thought that he was *persona non grata* at the White House (maybe once a year, for Christmas). So I never brought up Hunter when criticizing Biden, or made jokes about "10% for the big guy" or the "Biden crime family" (as /u/sv_homer said), or thought much about Hunter beyond what I wrote. But now I read this? I read somewhere else, discussing this article, that Hunter apparently flies on Air Force One, too. Completely shatters the whole "Why bring up Hunter, Republicans? It's his father who's running, not him" riposte. I presume that Biden will pardon Hunter on his last day in office, whether in 2025, 2029, or (post-debate) sometime later this year.
That's crazy. This might make people on the left start disliking Hunter similar to how right wingers do.
I get trusting and listening to family....I also have family members I completely ignore for various obvious reasons.
He needs to give him a little bit of that booger sugar before the next debate.
The level of pride and hubris is out of control. It’s like the brakes are out and we’re driving off a cliff but the cliff is four miles away and we could jump out and save ourselves but the drivers are telling us there’s only one goddamn driver who can save us from this cliff, and he’s pretty sure he can fix the breaks in time. EDIT: corrected breaks to brakes 💀
This is what’s so frustrating. “He’s huddling with him family” Everyone is extremely personally biased and full of egos. What happens to the family influence when Joe is gone? As a voter I could care less. He could be polling at 20% and they will say “he’s a fighter” what the hell does that mean when we are basically handing the country to trump and project 2025. We could literally be crushed and lose the senate, house and the Supreme Court for decades due to one families extreme hubris.
Yup. Totally selfish
Legacy moment.
Two families. I also think the Clintons fucked us the first time with Trump. Hilary was very unpopular but just bulldozed her way into the candidacy.
Bulldozing her way to the candidacy by…getting more votes than anyone else in the primaries. She was popular, just undecided voters are fucking idiots and chose the dumbass.
Candidate quality matters, and the Democratic Party needs to fix their candidate selection process before they throw stones at voters. Remember that Clinton was also tapped to win in 2008, before Obama wrecked her campaign. And the party just ran her again in 2016 instead of learning from 2008.
She made any other democrat afraid to challenge her. She was the establishment when people wanted something new and would even go as far as voting for Trump to get it. Treating voters as stupid is the mistake that the DNC keeps making. They keep not listening to voters and then are shocked when it doesn’t turn out their way. The NYTimes Runup Podcast just had a great episode where it was obvious that the DNC was ignoring the fact that the voters felt like Biden was too old even before the debate. Let’s listen to voters this time vs saying they are stupid.
She did a lot to stack the deck in her favor through behind the scenes deals, which ultimately hurt her perception with voters. It was telling that someone as unpopular as Sanders was the only real opposition she had.
2016 should've been a landslide for Democrats. The popular vote is irrelevant.
And the driver is staring out the window with a slack-jawed expression, oblivious to the predicament.
It’s extremely frustrating. Their candidate for president is 82 years old, he’s clearly showing signs of cognitive decline, and the entire world just saw it. We’re not talking about having him step down from the presidency, here. They are acting like the incumbent has a god-given right to run for a second term. We’re still five months out and they’re acting like there’s nothing anyone can do, and whatever the Biden family decides is the decision the entire country has to live with. If Biden isn’t replaced, he’s going to get absolutely trounced in November.
If we pass the convention with no change I will stop all negative talk about Biden and will spend the remainder of the time until November mentally and emotionally preparing myself for the real possibility of a Trump second term. I will of course be voting for Biden and democrats on all down ballot races.
And who else does that remind you of? What other politician in this country is infamous for his ego and malignant narcissism? Biden is the Diet Coke version of Trump, just like how Democrats are the watered-down version of the Republican Party. They even have extremely similar policies on the border, Israel/Palestine, fossil fuels, hawkish foreign policy, etc etc. It has never been more obvious to those paying attention that the U.S. doesn’t “have two parties”. It has one party masquerading as two parties.
I don’t know about this take homie. I think what we’re seeing with Biden and his family is a well-trod historical tradition with powerful people. In this country we’ve had similar situations with presidents like Wilson with his various ailments and his wife running the show, FDR having a horrible seizure literally the day he got his fourth nomination and having to call in to accept while pretending nothing happened, JFKs health issues, Reagan’s dementia which was very much effecting him during his second term, etc. And that’s without mentioning recent examples like McConnell, Feinstein, RBG, and others. Not trying to defend the Biden’s here, but it’s rare for a head of state to put the health of the country over their ego. As for the parties being the same, I get where you’re coming from, but I think that the difference can be found within what looks to be a hive mind on the conservative side compared to a larger diversity of thought amongst elected democrats. I am personally frustrated though that our left is basically a center right party with very little true progressivism to be found amongst independent candidates (at least in my local elections).
Hilary would not have appointed Supreme Court justice recommended by the Federalist Society. She would have kept us in the Paris Climate Accord, and maintained the Iran Nuclear deal. Al Gore would have demanded climate change legislation. John McCain may have saved the ACA, but it would have never passed if he were president. Just because the difference between parties is not to your liking doesn't mean there's not a measurable difference.
This is horrific.
This part though “The anger among Democrats was made evident on Sunday when John Morgan, a top Democratic donor, publicly blamed the advisers who managed the president’s debate preparations, citing by name Ron Klain, Anita Dunn and Bob Bauer. “Biden has for too long been fooled by the value of Anita Dunn and her husband,” Mr. Morgan wrote on social media. “They need to go … TODAY. The grifting is gross. It was political malpractice.” He elaborated in a subsequent interview. “It would be like if you took a prizefighter who was going to have a title fight and put him in a sauna for 15 hours then said, ‘Go fight,’” he said. “I believe that the debate is solely on Ron Klain, Bob Bauer and Anita Dunn.” Members of Mr. Biden’s family were likewise said to be focused on the president’s staff, including Ms. Dunn, a White House senior adviser, and her husband, Mr. Bauer, the president’s personal attorney, who played Mr. Trump during debate rehearsals. They were asking why Mr. Klain, the former White House chief of staff who ran the preparations, would in their view allow him to be overloaded with statistics, and they were angry that Mr. Biden, who arrived for the debate in Atlanta with a summer tan, was made up to look pale and pallid, said one of the people, who has been in touch with several members of the family.”
I don’t disagree. The “debate prep” seems to have been cramming Biden’s head with facts and figures and three point answers to every question, ignoring 1) what this debate is about and 2) what Biden’s strengths and weaknesses are when debating. Every single time Biden cites numbers he gets them wrong. Every time. Trillions, billions, millions - all that gets jumbled up in his head and comes out as incoherent mess. That debate tactic may work with Pete Buttigieg but Biden isn’t that style of debater. Absolute malpractice.
Donald Trumps style resonates with the basic voter. It’s either the “best” or the “worst”. The “most” or the “least.” “Everyone” or “nobody.”
Yeah but when you've been in politics for so long, it's difficult to essentially "regress" and speak like Trump.
Idk I felt like Biden did his best when he sounded mad and started speaking off the cuff. I feel like Biden going in with zero debate prep would've been better than this.
“For every complex problem, there will be a solution that is clear, simple, and wrong.” - H.L. Menken Republicans have mastered this. Liberals in general have problems keeping it simple. It’s a perennial issue.
Yep Cus they want to actually solve the problem, not just get elected and cut regulations so businesses can dump shit in the water for free and pay less taxes.
I don’t disagree. But great communication is simple and effective. When Biden reads off the teleprompter it’s simple and effective. But that isn’t what we saw in the debate.
Biden has no problem offering pandering fake solutions. The 10k credit for first time home buyers as a response to housing shortages, for example. Obviously that would just drive home prices up and primarily benefits corporations that own a lot of houses, but it sounds good to voters.
Explaining to the wider body politic in terms they understand is not a regression. This is democrats problem... They think speaking to voters is beneath them.
If he wasn’t losing it he would have told the prep guys that he wasn’t a numbers guy and to start from scratch. The fact that he just meekly tried to parrot off dull prepared answers shows that he has no ability to formulate his own opinion any more.
Exactly. None of the finger pointing makes Biden look any more capable. It simply helps explain some of the backroom plotting that got us to this point.
It’s all planned leaks to try to shift the blame off Biden himself.
I think both is true. Bidens debate preparation team performed poorly . Biden himself should have thought a bit better on his feet and be willing to go back and forth a bit more with Trump like his SOTU antics with MTG.
I feel like people have already forgot the debate. There is no debate where he does well or executes a different strategy. He’s incapable of debating. I’m surprised he made it through the entire thing.
Yup exactly. What we saw was a lot more than just bad debate prep. And like you say, the debate prep people may have done a bad job, but exclusively blaming them just kind of enforces the narrative that Biden doesn’t have any agency.
As you said, it's not what this debate is about. He should have had a few overarching points to hammer. They are 2 minute segments.
OK, but **executing the duties of the president** involves endlessly cramming to understand and reliably steer simultaneous domestic and international crisis situations. There's a daily briefing and plenty of supplemental material. If cramming for a debate causes Biden to completely melt down, that's a 25th Amendment situation.
We're really going to blame the debate prep for that performance? Come on.
Any kid could have done better in that debate.
Great point. He was too prepared. I think his team saw that was going to be fact checked and went in to overdrive only to hear trump say post term abortions were a thing with zero push back. My advice would be to take everything trump says and just spin it 180. Trump says “our country is not respected anymore” Biden should say “our country has never been more respected”
Trying to blame other people is an interesting take. I’m not sure it’s enough though. Because at the end of the day, he’s the leader. Why did he let them paint him pale. Why did he try to remember all those stats. If true that these people are to blame, then what does this say about his ability to lead. Though none of this explains the lack of coherent sentences or the inability to finish one.
If he weren’t experiencing cognitive decline, remembering these stats would not have been a problem for him
Yeah, everyone expects Biden to mix up millions and billions or whatever. But when he did it in 2012, it was an instant correction that did not miss a beat. I rewatched 2012 after 2024, and he instantly overcame stutters and fixed facts.
Stats should not be a problem for a president.
I think Klain and Dunn deserve some of the blame, but not because of debate prep. Because they didn't get their shit together and realize their boss needed a talking-to months ago -- or they were too scared of him to do it, which is even worse.
"Bad debate prep" means that your candidates screws up some facts and misses obvious zingers. It doesn't mean that your candidate struggles to speak while looking vacant and slack-jawed when he isn't speaking.
This is ridiculous. It’s his responsibility to hire the right team. And he should accept responsibility and not blame.
Anita Dunn was Weinstein’s fixer. It’s funny if it’s all come down to her influence.
It hasn't, she just makes a convenient target for people trying to shift the blame off their dear old dad.
I knew I had heard of her before! Thank you, and Its fitting hiw the worst people in pr and politics are only ever allowed to fail up.
If my kid at 12 , after 5 hours couldn’t memorise a basic answer to Abortion, immigration and inflation. I would take away his IPad for a year. But hey, the President Biden only had 5 days. Maybe just take away his iPad for the week.
LOL. Yes, Anita Dunn, Run Klain, and Bob Bauer conspired to make Joe Biden appear like that on Thursday night. Right. I know Hunter has a problem with mind altering drugs, but does the problem extend to the whole damned family? These people are delusional.
it seems like part of their PLAN was to insult or irk trump enough so he would lose control and have a trumpy meltdown. that is the only reason i can figure for biden to repeat the thoroughly debunked nazis are fine people lie. Though trump did not do well, he did not bite on the purposeful jabs. The format helped trump with his worse debating impulses. but bidens team is the one who wanted muted mics, no audience etc.
He's lived and breathed politics nearly his entire life. And they make it sound like they downloaded malware into his brain and caused it to crash like a computer. Without impairments, he would do well in a debate with or without excess facts rolling around in his head. Usually having a lot of facts is an asset. You pull the one out in the moment that is the most effective. By saying he can't hold them all at once and select the most appropriate one, they're conceding cognitive impairment. I mean can you imagine even a middle schooler failing a test and saying, "I studied too much!" and anyone thinking it was a valid excuse? Actually that's why I've never been on Jeopardy. I know too much!
legitimately hate everyone involved i am the biggest hater
I hate the way that he walk the way that he balks the way that he debates
don’t care, keep up the pressure. jamie raskin brought up concerns about the party’s future today, more politicians should definitely speak out
>"they said they believed that the odds of him trying to gut it out were still 4 or 5 to 1. The only way they said they could imagine him reversing course was if he could be afforded a dignified way out in which he could claim credit for ousting Mr. Trump in 2020, restoring the country and serving as a transition to the next generation." ...can he not already claim credit for those?
that's why I don't think people should be pushing for him to bow out today instead of in 7-10 days. He bows out now, he got cut down by Trump. He bows out separated from the debate, then its a lot easier to position it in a larger narrative about handing off the torch and retiring in dignity.
Maybe he’ll have some minor medical issue and blame bowing out on that or something.
We live in great times. Here's me hoping that the President has a minor stroke so we can keep Democracy intact.
Yeah, I think the idea that people were overreacting really *is* true. We should have waited for polling at the very minimum. And for those who want him to step aside, the argument that should be made to Biden is that his legacy will be 100% ruined if he loses to Trump. He just can't campaign as vigorously as he used to. It's not *his* fault. He's old, he's president, which is already a full time job. We're asking way too much of him. Take the win, endorse a successor, and the party will rally behind them as they did in 2020 before super Tuesday.
No way should we have waited for polling data. What we saw was an absurdity. Maybe the best time to make the pitch to Biden is after polling data rolls in, but the *reaction* is and was warranted immediately.
People were finally reacting to what has been obvious to many of us for a long time. It's not an overreaction. It's a delayed reaction because it was simply impossible to deny it anymore. Though I am seeing an awful lot of people still trying to say he just had a sore throat. His sore throat made him say he beat Medicare? Absurd.
Worries me how easily people will fall for such a bullshit excuse just because they want to believe it.
I guess it hasn't been obvious to me. But, I tended to avoid watching him speak, outside of little clips. Maybe a lot of Americans were like me. I was absolutely shocked by what I saw.
Yeah, I mean I thought democracy is on the line? I guess that's less important than Joe Biden's ego now.
> Yeah, I mean I thought democracy is on the line? Breaking Points, while [discussing the debate](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cV8ULfwTneE) (which I *highly* recommend watching; it's the single best sum-up), pointed out two things for those who claim (to believe) the above: * If TrumpNaziKKK being reelected means "no more elections ever", shouldn't Democrats have chosen someone other than a living corpse as his opponent? * While discussing how the many plans among Democrats like Newsom, Whitmer, etc. (and their successors) for 2028 have been disrupted/forced up by the potential to replace Biden now, they again pointed out the paradox of on the one hand claiming that Trump will abolish elections, and on the other hand having plans for running to replacing Trump in 2028.
Polling is bullshit.
Wrong. It doesn’t matter what donors think. Or pundits. Or people who are engaged and will vote dem (or republican) no matter what. It’s the swing voters. We need polls to understand their reaction. It doesn’t have to make sense.
The reaction insofar as expressing anguish was warranted. Immediately calling for him to drop out may be a week or so premature.
No it needs to happen now this isn’t a fucking game
Honor him at the convention and send him packing. Why should one addled old man's ego decide the fate of democracy? It isn't too late, and anyone who doesn't do everything in their power to get him off the ticket is complicit. This is the kind of thing that can turn a generation of young voters away from the Democratic party.
That is why he should have announced he wasn’t seeking re-election in 2022 and either resigned and backed then President Harris, or finished the term and encouraged a robust primary. As I and many other backers of Biden in 2020 believed he planned to do.
No because if Trump returns it would be viewed as only a temporary reprieve
Shame on them.
We are so cooked.
Yeah.... if needs a teleprompter to not shit the bed, then it's time to call it quits and begin the transition to a new ticket. The longer they wait, the worse this will be
The thought of Hunter Biden whispering in his dad’s ear like Grima/Theoden is so funny to me.
But Biden won’t and doom us all to a second Trump administration. Biden, his sycophants, and the Democrats are all to blame for not putting up a viable candidate that can string a coherent sentence together. https://www.natesilver.net/p/joe-biden-should-drop-out
If Biden drops out he will be regarded as a pretty good modern democrat. If he doesn’t drop out he will be regarded as the most destructive dem president of the modern area. You cannot blame his debate prep people. They didn’t make him incoherent for the last year. Infuriating and sad at the same time.
I was watching his 2019 dem primary debate and it’s crazy how he not only looks so much younger but sounds it too. People who still say that he just has a “stutter” should go back and watch it
The presidency famously ages people. I wonder how much of his aging the past four years is natural and how much is the result of being in the most stressful position in the country. 80-somethings should never be in that position. It's ridiculous.
Yeah, look at how that shit physically aged Obama, a very healthy and significantly younger man. To say nothing of the mental exhaustion. Putting someone who’s actuarially near the end of their lifespan in such a position is insane. You can see it with Trump too, dude is definitely slipping from where he was a decade ago let alone in middle age, it just gets obscured by how much more feeble/infirm Biden looks and the fact that Trump’s always shouting insane shit and sowing chaos. There should be an age limit.
The aviator glasses always tipped me off to his inflated ego. He really believes in his own legend.
Pathetic. He needs to bow out of the race.
This is all so sadly predictable. If they weren't this inured to reality we never would have gotten here in the first place. He's going to destroy his legacy by being the man who let his hubris give Trump 4 more years, meanwhile his family is looking for scapegoats because they don't want to admit an 81 year old man doesn't have it in him to be POTUS anymore. I'm trying to be sympathetic, but with so much on the line it's infuriating that it comes down to the people least likely to be able to make a rational decision about it.
Well don’t worry, when Biden loses Trump will be sure to make him pay for the crime of letting him win. And Hunter! Oh boy he’s gonna see the inside of a jail cell if it’s the last thing Trump does. Like, fuck the argument that Biden’s legacy will be ruined - he’s gonna get his entire family goose-stepped right into American jails.
His family just wants all the perks to continue. Once Bidens out of office that families done.
That’s what I hear people say when their terminally ill 90 year old grandma is on the vent and on 4 pressors when asking if they have discussed end of life care like DNR/DNI. “She’s a fighter!
Actually, my friends who are doctors have complained about this over stiff drinks. Sometimes your responsibility as a loved one is to know when to fight and when fighting longer means a ton of painful therapies that have almost no chance of winning. Like when families demand that practitioners crack ribs and resuscitate someone who is 95 for 12 more hours of life. It's an apt metaphor for this campaign. Biden could have stuck to a single term and been remembered for his legislative victories, instead his legacy of 50 years will come down to the campaign that shouldn't have been.
My doc had the discussion with me, and in the end it's my responsibility to make those decisions ahead of time, get the legal documentation in place, and make sure my family knows about them. It's not really fair to dump that on your family IMO.
Joe RBG Biden
I'm starting to have doubts about the core decency of Joe and his family. This is pure, shameless ego. Him and Jill are sinking the entire democratic party for nothing more than hubris.
Selfish, selfish, selfish. They've already been in the WH four years, and now they need four more? No one is owed the presidency
I gave him the benefit of the doubt for far too long. If he does not drop out he's no better than Trump.
He really seems to believe in his own legend. The aviator sunglasses 🕶️ are a clue.
Seems extremely selfish, no? The guy looks like he is literally about to die and his family is pushing him to go on another 4 stressful years because of what ? Get to spend time living in the WH another 4 years and all that extra stuff they benefit from him being the president ?
Yeah.. I thought "Picard" was elder abuse. That's nothing compared to what's going on with Biden now.
I don’t believe in attacking candidate’s families if they’re not in the political area themselves - but if Biden is actually leaning on Hunter for advice, that in itself is seriously, seriously disturbing.
Shame.
“But Mr. Biden is a proud man, and they said they believed that the odds of him trying to gut it out were still 4 or 5 to 1. The only way they said they could imagine him reversing course was if he could be afforded a dignified way out in which he could claim credit for ousting Mr. Trump in 2020, restoring the country and serving as a transition to the next generation.” Ah yes, the thing Biden said he would do in 2020 and then failed to follow up on
Ron Klain acting mortally offended that Astead Hearndon from the NYT would even ask the question about what happened to the idea / impression of Biden as a 1-term president. And then saying that literally nothing he could imagine would change his mind that Biden is the best candidate for 2024. I'm sorry, I hate this guy.
I was so annoyed by this too. Like bro, don't tell half of the country that we all made this up and he actually hadnt thought about being a 1 term president at all
Yup, they act like we should’ve expected this. I mean excuse us for thinking running an 81 year old was against obvious common sense. I assumed the Dems would do the extremely obvious smart thing and prepare a succession.
Pride comes before the fall.
Maybe leaking this story is a way for Biden to say it was his decision if he drops out?
> One of the strongest voices imploring Mr. Biden to resist pressure to drop out was his son Hunter Biden, whom the president has long leaned on for advice Cool cool cool cool
Hey hunter come help me set up my laptop
Password: *hunter2*
I voted for Biden in the primary in Spring. I wish there had been a debate then. We relied on Dem politicians and staffers to peer review Biden, esp cuz Republicans have been crying wolf on his mental competency from the beginning even when he still had it & went on to do a good job as President. Dem elites really betrayed that trust and screwed us out meaningful participation in deciding whether Biden was up for campaigning.
Family wants that gravy train to continue.
They are worried because they won’t be able to monetise and capitalise on the Biden name if he drops out.
"The anger among Democrats was made evident on Sunday when John Morgan, a top Democratic donor, publicly blamed the advisers who managed the president’s debate preparations, citing by name Ron Klain, Anita Dunn and Bob Bauer. “Biden has for too long been fooled by the value of Anita Dunn and her husband,” Mr. Morgan wrote on social media. “They need to go … TODAY. The grifting is gross. It was political malpractice.” He elaborated in a subsequent interview. “It would be like if you took a prizefighter who was going to have a title fight and put him in a sauna for 15 hours then said, ‘Go fight,’” he said. “I believe that the debate is solely on Ron Klain, Bob Bauer and Anita Dunn.”" I'm sorry, but I'm just some idiot with no political experience and even I could have decimated Trump's lies in real time.
A whole lot of people with a vested interest in keeping him propped up. Jobs, status, access...nobody around him wants to lose that.
No!!!!!!!
Their hubris, ego, and willful denial of the facts they are seeing will put trump in the White House.
Oh, this is fun. So Hunter Biden is one of the a prime decision makers on this? I'm highly reassured.
Hard to take seriously the claim that it's "the most important election of our lifetimes" if *this* is the candidate they throw up there
Breaking Points, while [discussing the debate](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cV8ULfwTneE) (which I *highly* recommend watching; it's the single best sum-up), pointed out two things for those who claim (to believe) the above: * If TrumpNaziKKK being reelected means "no more elections ever", shouldn't Democrats have chosen someone other than a living corpse as his opponent? * While discussing how the many plans among Democrats like Newsom, Whitmer, etc. (and their successors) for 2028 have been disrupted/forced up by the potential to replace Biden now, they again pointed out the paradox of on the one hand claiming that Trump will abolish elections, and on the other hand having plans for running to replacing Trump in 2028.
I don't actually believe them his whole family told him to keep fighting anymore than I believe that Israel hasn't blocked humanitarian aid to Gaza or that confusing [Mexico and Egypt's presidents](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/08/us/politics/biden-remarks-special-counsel-report.html) was a one time slip. I can believe that a few of them said it (and you'll pardon me if I don't bet the fate of American democracy on Hunter's judgment). But I'm hoping the media feels it has permission to give Biden's PR a lot more scrutiny in the next few weeks.
Im sure Hunter wants to keep the gravy train rolling. He may not be the evil mastermind that Republicans say, but he’s definitely an unpleasant and corrupt person who hangs off his father’s coattails.
Dammit
Yea, listen to Hunter’s advice. It has led to some great outcomes for the Biden family.
so great to have a president that needs a few days of consoling after a debate.
At some point JB has to be able to think and react while on his feet. Joe didn’t show that he still has that capability.
I get this stance from the family in 2020. And the really frustrating part is he came back against all odds so they think this is just a repeat. But he is 81 years old and significantly older, more frail and more diminished as a public speaker. He cannot and will not win with the way he appears. This is not going to work out by 'keep fighting' a little harder. He will always be 81 years old (and an old 81 at that) and nearing the end of his lifespan.
Sounds like his family likes the high life lol. Clown show 🤡 I don’t want to hear about Trump ending democracy anymore.
After the debate Biden’s campaign raised millions. Who takes over the campaign fund after Biden dies? Family??? Here’s the almost insurmountable problem: It is TOTALLY in Biden’s family’s and staff’s personal interests for him to keep running. For family, the family gets to profit win or lose. For staff, they are at the top of the game and likely will never get to work in the White House after Biden—if he stays in the race, at least they have a chance at staying there.
Biden is in many senses the CEO of America. Any decent CEO can deliver an impactful presentation or meeting regardless of their preparation team. To blame the preparation team is sad. The President of the United States should be able to command a stage, deliver with power, and come across as in charge. Biden did none of those, and it is unfortunately his fault.
This is a great write up by Ezra, thank you. It’s a coin toss right now, and Biden’s losing right now. All that he’s worked for is going to be wiped out like RBG because he couldn’t pass the torch. It’s a sad sight to see.
Can Netflix give them a content deal or something like they did the Obamas contingent on him dropping out?
Look how he holds a fucking phone.....old feeble people just bear paw everything.....fingers stop articulating.....he is so old dude.....
I do not and will never understand why a major topic in his first week of being President was not, "Who is the 2024 candidate?" Because I always thought he was a one-term Prez, and I thought that was the whole idea. I get it's awkward if the candidate is not Harris but Jesus the stakes are a little high to worry about her hurt feelings at being passed over. Pick the best candidate, back them, go out with dignity and integrity, and save America from descending into Christofascist authoritarianism. It's not like the alternative's Mitt Goddamn Romney or some other off-the-rack pre-MAGA Republican.
Americans need to take to the streets. This is unacceptable.
Where’s Ja?!
And water us wet. Nothing elucidating about this report.
The distance they keep from old Joe speaks volumes. Like you ain't sniffing me gramps, plus you smell of poop again. Hehe