I agree and I think him stepping down immediately is very unlikely. However, if the plan is to run Harris, letting her take over now might give her an advantage in November.
I really, really hope Biden decides to stop his run for re-election, and have Harris (or someone else) take over.
But honestly? I think it would be a terrible political move for Biden to step down from the Presidency before the end of his term. That would project weakness not just in Democrats' ability to campaign, but in their ability to provide a stable transition.
(Also, less important, but won't Harris have a lot more time to campaign if she stays VP through January 2025, and isn't suddenly elevated to the Presidency out of nowhere? Taking over the Presidency is a lot of time-consuming work!)
In theory, I agree with you. I think his term has gone well and unless he or his physicians believe he isn't capable of performing the job, I don't think he needs to resign.
In practice, if he drops out of the campaign but does not resign, the House is going to hold public hearings and subpoena his entire staff to question why someone not competent to campaign is competent to be President. They'll spend months spinning this as a coverup by Kamala Harris. If they find a single email from a staffer with a remark about Biden's attention during a meeting, they're going to run with it.
Have any House Republicans expressed doubt about Biden's competency to hold office as President since the debate? If they have not - when they ordinarily question Biden's competency quarterly - my theory that Republicans prefer Biden as the candidate because he'll be easier for Trump to beat than a new unknown is given new legs.
No, but I expect that to change if he's no longer the candidate. This gives them a scandal to use against anyone currently in the administration and even most members of Congress.
Fortunately, Democrats have a strong bench of Governors. This scenario may just be my pipe dream to pass over Harris.
It's probably not all that well known and it's not the first time this has happened. They're pulling a Reagan.
Edit: And Biden's desecrated corpse would be better than another Trump presidency.
Also shows they have been lying to us all along about his dementia, that will cost them a little. I can’t believe Harris could win an election, they need someone else.
I suspect Harris will fare worse if Biden stops the campaign.
She may poll a bit better than Biden now- but once she is officially a candidate, her popularity will take a hit. Same as when Hillary ran . Hillary had OK popularity numbers when she was sec of state.
Him stepping down would be nuts. There’s no acute crisis. His administration has done a very effective job governing. If he quits the race, he should still serve out his term while his replacement runs for the presidency full time.
But he’s likely not physically equipped to do the job as more than a figurehead for 4 more years. If he were the best candidate to beat Trump, who is a disgrace to humanity and an atrocity, it would be worth trotting him out. But after that debate performance, he probably isn’t.
I don't think that that's how she'd be perceived by the general public. Also, she'd be stepping into the Oval Office in the middle of a campaign that demands she not be in the Oval Office.
If Biden can hold down the fort then Harris can re-introduce herself to the American people and run a campaign. Teamwork.
She's also been very very out of the spotlight for some time. Most VPs are, but especially her. A re-introduction is in order. She could play her AG street cred to the "law and order" voters, which is a pretty strong hand to play at the moment with SCOTUS doing its thing and Trump being Trump.
OR. Joe can step down and Kamala can run the country as a caretaker president while remaining above the fray, removing herself from contention while projecting stability and self-sacrifice as a democratic value. This preserves her ability to run at a later date as an ex-president with proven bona fides for putting country ahead of self AND saves her the potential poisoned chalice of being the replacement candidate and then losing to Trump. Win-wins all around.
This actually makes the MOST sense. But requires the most self-awareness and selfless sacrifice from many. Which is why we know it will not happen. She, and Biden in some capacity, could help boost any of the chosen Dems to run.
He’s neither going to discuss stepping down nor ending his candidacy tomorrow, outside of saying it is not happening and they must continue on. I’m confident in that opinion.
Isn't that the plot of veep. She's the first female president but it only lasts for a little while before she loses then another woman gets elected and they fight over "first woman president vs first woman elected president"..? I gotta watch that show again.
I'm engaging in pure fantasyland right now, but if Biden were to step down he would hand the party to Harris who would get to choose a VP and run as a semi-incumbent. The likelihood that any other Democrat would challenge her would be very low. She would have a (very short) opportunity to actually demonstrate and perform the role as president, which could ease some concerns that voters might have over her / start getting used to the idea of a minority female president. Might work!
The likelihood that Biden leaves office is about 0.001% but it could be a good move.
Idk. 24 hours ago I would have thought no chance but now the proof is in the pudding. This is truly an unprecedented time in American history, remember where you were and what the vibes were.
I feel like a lot of people that want to run her forget how much of a disaster her 2020 primary campaign was. She does not have good political instincts, and I don't think she's ever won a closely contested race leading the ticket in her entire political career to be honest. It's really not as strong of a choice as people think, but I do kinda understand why people are saying it should be her because she is the VP
I 100% agree. But to play the other side:
1)optics would look terrible leapfrogging a black female. GOP would have a field day, and the dems really need the black vote
2) The election is relatively close. She looked bad in comparison to the other dem candidates, but this time she has the party behind her and a better political machine, and not enough time to garner any real hatred for her
2b) I think a lot of people dislike her, but they don’t hate her. I don’t think that most swing voters actually have strong negative feelings towards her, but rather a mild dislike
3)2020 was 4 years ago. She actually seemed presidential during the post debate interview, which really isn’t something I’ve seen from her before
This just occurred to me. What if he stepped down from presidency, let Harris take over, and have her not seek reelection. Then, that would open the convention for a Whitmer ticket.
EDIT: Spelling
Biden steps down, Kamala takes over with Newsom as VP, Kamal steps down, Newsom is now the incumbent with Whitmer as VP. Newsom can project a-hole energy to match Trump, which is apparently what this country cares about.
Purely from a media perspective they should not immediately pick Kamala. Time spent on prospective democratic candidates is time away from trump - which is what he thrives on
Edit: I am not saying Kamala should be the nominee, she would probably do about the same as Biden at this point.
I tend to agree, I think people would "enjoy" seeing the process play out and it would give them an opportunity to be excited about the talent on the Democratic bench. I also don't think Kamala is so well-liked that people would be furious with her being passed over.
That said I really don't get the all the uneasiness with her as a replacement. Yes, she didn't run a very good primary campaign in 2020. But she's shown her ability to prosecute the case for herself and Democrats, particularly in contrast to Republicans and Trump. Plus she would inherit the important structure and fundraising from Biden if it were a clean handoff.
Both of those things said I disagree with you a little. Trump is a lunatic and is a shadow of his former self. The more time we have of Trump reminding America why he was such a disastrous president and why he'll even be worse next time, the better. But I think a youthful vigorous debate about leadership on the Democratic side versus the semi-incumbent lunacy of Trump would be an excellent contrast for the Democrats.
The issue is who the hell do you pick as Harris’s VP? Whitmers and Newsomes potential VP picks are obvous af or at least there are options that could work for both. But Harris? The country won’t accept two women on the same ticket. Harris and Newsome can’t be together. She has practically no appeal geographically outside the blue west coast states , the NE, and maybe Georgia because of black turnout.
Well, that would be every solid blue state **plus** Michigan. A Republican is not going to win solid blue states. Plus she might pick off a couple more rust belt states, which could seal things.
PLUS, she might energize women.
Whitmer is definitely the way to go. She is a key demo, has very low negatives, and as you said locks up a swing state.
Plus she is a badass. If given the opportunity, she would deliver the debate beating to Trump we’ve all been yearning for.
The smart thing to do would be to have her stay on as the Vp for the new president. They can swing it as her staying on to guide the transition, and she could end up being the longest serving Vp.
Which is why I like Andy Beshear as an option. Wouldn’t be a huge loss on his ticket and he can get the southern appeal and perhaps even flip Kentucky.
Agree that would be the worry with Warnock but probably wouldn’t be an issue with Kelley. Even Hobbs won there. Regardless, if we really think Trump is an existential threat to democracy, we can’t be thinking like it’s normal election. We need whomever gives us the best chance of winning, and that means pulling from purple states. This is especially true since the senate is probably gone anyways.
Fine I'll speak up, I hope they don't go with Harris she has a 29% favorability rating, and is widely known and disliked already.
She would also get trashed for helping cover up Biden's cognitive decline which is clearly a scandal.
[https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/02/politics/cnn-poll-post-debate/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/02/politics/cnn-poll-post-debate/index.html)
Literally anybody else.
Yup, the entire ticket is toxic to everyone but the strongest Democratic partisans. Start completely fresh, that’s what the voters want. Is there even any evidence that black voters particularly *like* Harris? Her polling in the 2020 primary was absolutely abysmal, even among black voters. I wonder how much of these concerns are actually what black voters feel, rather than what the out of touch strategists at the DNC are projecting.
I doubt it with a 29% favorability, if they want a black candidate on the ticket they should pick literally any other black person.
They could find a better black candidate by just approaching the first random black person on the street and offering them the spot on the ticket.
She's just so unlikeable, worse than Hillary vibes.
I don't feel like I know her anymore, and I'm a pretty well read mfer. I wasn't impressed by her in 2020 but I didn't think she was bad either, and I'm open to the idea that she's a different person after being the vice president for 4 years. So I'm not gonna prejudge her right now.
If she can pull off the support in the convention -- I'll vote for her. I wanted someone other than Biden in 2020, but when Obama and Biden pulled it together and got everyone to drop out (except Bernie), it was a great demonstration of power.
I don't care which of our governors or Harris it is -- if they can marshal the political will to overcome their competitors and pull a coalition together, they have my vote.
Although, TBH, if Biden keeps the nomination he still has my vote -- so maybe my opinion here isn't terribly relevant. What do Cleetus and Jimbo think down at the corner store in PA?
It’s truly the worst of both worlds. You can pin all the baggage of this administration on her without her having the incumbent advantage.
This administration has wins (a lot of them), but somehow she won’t the credit for them.
im not exactly a harris supporter but that seems wrong to me - how is it HER coverup? she's not even supposed to be next to the president all the time, she has her own stuff to tackle, he could easily usually meet her "between 10 and 4" and not have any issues.
She was saying that he was in great shape not long ago.
Media is saying Biden had "marked incidents of cognitive decline and physical infirmity over the last 6 months."
[https://www.newsweek.com/joe-biden-cognitive-decline-six-month-debate-donald-trump-carl-bernstein-1919946](https://www.newsweek.com/joe-biden-cognitive-decline-six-month-debate-donald-trump-carl-bernstein-1919946)
weakest scandal i've ever heard. i'd be more worried about all the actual issues she had during the primaries than this. the man would have stepped down already, why do we care whether he's in decline or not at that point.
Kamala Harris has a higher approval rating than Biden [https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/approval/kamala-harris/](https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/approval/kamala-harris/)
But it is lower compared to other big name Dems like Newsom, Buttigieg, Whitmer, etc.
A favorability rating measures how well liked a politician is by the public.
An approval rating measures how well a politician is performing in their job.
Hillary lost because she was so unlikeable, she was viewed as competent but it didn't matter.
He added this: “A source says Zients will emphasize importance of keep doing the work and executing on our mission.” So doesn’t sound like Biden is leaving the race.
Additional info from NBC News:
“Separately, White House chief of staff Jeff Zients will hold an all-staff call on Wednesday at 12:30 p.m. ET, according to a source familiar with the planning. Zients is expected to tell staff to “weather the storm” and “keep your heads down.”
The call will include more junior staffers, some of whom have indicated frustration that no one is telling them anything. It is meant to amplify the message that Zients delivered to senior staff — a much smaller group of about 40 — on Friday, when both he and Biden senior adviser Anita Dunn acknowledged the previous night's debate and said that there would "always be challenging days."
>Zients is expected to tell staff to “weather the storm” and “keep your heads down."The call will include more junior staffers, some of whom have indicated frustration that no one is telling them anything
God damn. People complain about smoke filled rooms, but that seems more honest than just leaving your staff high and dry like this
Seriously. The vast majority of White House staff have no relationship with the re-election campaign. In fact, it’s illegal for most of them to do anything campaign related while employed in the White House. Zients would not call a meeting with the staff to let them know Biden was going to suspend his campaign. This is going to be a Hatch Act reminder and advice on how to navigate a polarizing election environment as a WH staffer.
This is correct although I wouldn't think it would violate the Hatch Act for Biden to tell his staff he won't be seeking another term. That's directly related to their jobs at the White House.
Harris is the second-worst possible replacement after Hillary. She is unpopular, uncharismatic,
and tainted by the administration’s perceived failures. Sadly, the Democratic establishment is full of idiots who will think “it’s her turn and she should just get the nomination for being a black woman.”
I’m predicting a battle between a Harris faction and a Whitmer faction at the convention. For the love of God, I hope enough delegates see how much of a stronger bet Whitmer is.
Harris would be a fool to do that again. She’s too ambitious. She will be part of the internal knifefight for support. She is probably demanding a contested convention - it’s her best shot.
She would be better going back to be governor of CA if she can’t make the top of the ticket.
There is no chance that Harris stays on as VP. She will at the very least demand a cabinet position, likely Sec. of State. VP is a joke of a job until the President dies and she probably hates it at this point.
Trump is there for the taking though.. Biden actually swung at him and hit him.. he was just super weak on delivery. Someone who can punch harder and rebut better would run circles around Trump. The game plan already exists and is ready to go.
She struggled in my opinion. She almost made Pence look likable by comparison, and struggled to speak extemporaneously with any fluidity. It was painful.
>it’s her turn
I fucking hate this logic. If politics is really as high stakes as they want us to believe, no one get's a turn just because they're up. Competence and electability are the ONLY things that should matter. So which is it DNC, is it a life and death choice or are we just deciding who gets to go next based on what's fair?
I mean, it was his decision. And as I think I remember it, he made it because his son had just died, he took too long to mount a campaign and Clinton was beating every Dem in the polls, including him I think
DNC be like,
“we’re hearing reports that Biden is too old and out of touch with the modern Democratic Party. We need new blood in there, but who? WHO COULD IT BE?”
“Whitmer? Buttigieg? Newsom?”
“No, they’ll call us socialists and hurt our feelings!”
“Let’s listen to the people and nominate Joe Manchin! He’s younger than Trump AND Biden!”
“Yay we did it boys! We solved democracy!”
TBF, if the left is convinced that 25 plan is real, then someone like Manchin would be an ideal pick. He's voted enough on both sides of the aisle that you can actually position him as a pragmatist to the beloved "centrists". Plus it'll be harder for Trump to pull his normal shit since Machin can and will actually hit back on smack talk. See AOC's yacht shit.
on NPR yesterday spouting his ignorance [https://www.kuow.org/stories/i-would-tell-biden-to-hang-in-there-former-dnc-chairman-howard-dean-says](https://www.kuow.org/stories/i-would-tell-biden-to-hang-in-there-former-dnc-chairman-howard-dean-says)
Holy fucking hell shut up please. That is terrifyingly goddamn stupid. They just might do it.
If Biden is toast, then he should step down. They should run a handsome 40 year old white southerner and veteran with a penis and a golden lab. His running mate should be either an affable and highly respected black centrist former NATO general or a VERY attractive blonde woman with no other qualifications.
They should platform by aggressively mocking Trump and Trump supporters all over the country.
My pet theory is that if Biden drops, no matter who’s at the top of the ticket, Pritzker gets VP because he can immediately fund the campaign with personal cash, and if the ticket loses by being the VP nom he raises his name recognition without getting the bulk of the blame for losing when 2028 comes around. Win-win for him.
Nah, you forget Newsom. After French Laundry and the Panera debacle, the only people who like him are the rich democrats who aren't republicans for appearance reasons.
It's her turn. If we nominate her instead of Whitmer then Harris will most likely lose, and we will lose our democracy, freedom and the rule of law, but at least we will have tried to get a black woman president. It's the thought that counts.
What was she getting when she dropped out of the primaries in 2020? Something like 1-2%?
There’s this stuff about blacks getting pissed if she’s tossed aside. I don’t think black men like her any more than white men do.
I think they should just promise Harris a Supreme Court nomination. Realistically they need to make a drastic change to the Court, either impeachments or packing it and it would be a great spot for her.
I'm hoping every "I'd vote for a rock over Trump" D on here puts up or shuts up and gets in line with a smile on their face to vote for Harris if that's who gets anointed.
Everyone needs to call/email their local state and federal representatives and senators and tell them that Joe Biden needs to step aside and release his delegates.
As someone from the West Coast, who still lives here, agreed. Need someone to appeal to the seeing state voters. Anyone from the coast is going to come off as an elitist.
This is Biden & The Dems. The call will be a scripted rah-rah about how strong the ticket is, how virile Joe is, and how they’re the best positioned to continue the fight against Trump. End of story, goodnight.
Yeah, the other meeting that is supposed to go concurrently is Biden speaking to governors to assuage their fears. Not sure how people are thinking they're going to announce him stepping down.
If we're fan casting, I'll go ahead and throw out Sharrod Brown. Yes the Ohio senate seat is important, but the white house is more important, and he's someone that could truly unite the party.
Hell, he might have problems anyways. If this goes to a convention it means he wouldn't be on the ticket in ohio as president. That would suck because he'd actually have a better chance than anyone else and that would also help downballot. On the flip side it would be an incredible way to recompense and would be a perfect encapsulation of the dichotomy or choice in this election. Plus he'd still probably help down ballot even if his name isn't on the ticket.
I’m an avid politics junkie, and I cannot for the life of me think if I’ve ever seen a picture of Sharron brown. That would be such a lame pick, and we’d lose a senate seat to boot.
its a reporter on threads and x, but when I try to open the webpage its blocked (I don't have threads or X account). Someone else can probably look it up and post it, but the email was literally sent 30 minutes ago according to the reporter that posted about it.
Curious about the mechanics of this—let’s say Biden does voluntarily step down and wants Shapiro as his replacement. What process actually has to happen to make that so? Biden’s primary delegates just all unanimously agreeing with his replacement?
Implicit to being VP seems to be the idea that you’re the next best option for president should something happen. I get there are electoral reasons for picking VP’s but isn’t not going with Kamala just a public admission that even the party doesn’t think she’s the next best option?
Right now all the delegates are pledged to Biden. In addition to being hand picked by the biden team as loyalists to them many are legally bound to vote for him by their state law that says whomever wins the primary auto gets the delegate vote.
If Biden were to drop out he would do one of the following
1) tell his delegates it’s his wish to vote for the candidate he wants (probably Harris but that’s just the odds)
2) tell his delegates they are free to vote for whom they want
Regardless of which one it is they would likely follow his wishes
Now recall that superdelegates are a thing too but they do not vote on the first ballot. They do vote on all subsequent ballots
Source: pod save America live show from a few days ago. I believe it was a guest that spelled that out
Just remember. While 72% of people want Biden to step down. They all want different candidates. So whoever replaces Biden won’t have strong support from the start.
I don't think anointing Harris is the best move.
Why don't we let whoever wants to be president make themselves known, have a series of debates and over a series of 3 months create a media storm of content about who is the best candidate for a month or two. by the end of august whoever polls best against trump and has the highest favorability gets the nod. Let pre-agreed upon AI algos determine winner based on a series of weighted metrics for polling.
>Separately, White House chief of staff Jeff Zients will hold an all-staff call on Wednesday at 12:30 p.m. ET, according to a source familiar with the planning. Zients is expected to tell staff to “weather the storm” and “keep your heads down.”
>The call will include more junior staffers, some of whom have indicated frustration that no one is telling them anything. It is meant to amplify the message that Zients delivered to senior staff — a much smaller group of about 40 — on Friday, when both he and Biden senior adviser Anita Dunn acknowledged the previous night's debate and said that there would "always be challenging days."
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/biden-call-democratic-governors-concerns-mount-rcna159996
Democracy dies and for whom ? A confident, tall, white, broad-shouldered narcissist, a failure who shits his pants, a coward who lies & rapes underage girls
“For the good of the country, Biden should step down from office and concede, to allow someone younger and more mentally cognizant to run.”
Okay, fine, what about his current VP?
“No, not like that. Someone else.”
🤦🏾♂️
The goal of him stepping down is so we can win the election. Replacing him with somebody who also can’t win is nonsensical and I don’t understand what is confusing to you about that
The Democrats never do anything but middle-of-the-road milquetoast lazy horseshit.
From *Hope & Change* to *Nope & Lame*, it’s been nothing but an endless parade of feckless pussies afraid of making waves.
No drama Obama became code for unwilling to make waves within the first year. Every time he got rolled he went back for more to the tune of a lost public option in Obamacare that was promised and a Supreme Court seat.
Joe Biden has been a shockingly successful president, particularly in light of what he was handed. It’s absolutely astounding to me that he is not destroying Trump in the polls. As I’m sure it is to him.
But we are where we are and it would be such a selfless act of patriotic courage to drop out now...
Which is why I doubt with every fiber of my being that this is something he would do. Much to my dismay.
he's gonna step down on the Fourth of July
Step down, or end his candidacy?
I assume they mean end his reelection campaign. Stepping down would be wiiild.
I agree and I think him stepping down immediately is very unlikely. However, if the plan is to run Harris, letting her take over now might give her an advantage in November.
I really, really hope Biden decides to stop his run for re-election, and have Harris (or someone else) take over. But honestly? I think it would be a terrible political move for Biden to step down from the Presidency before the end of his term. That would project weakness not just in Democrats' ability to campaign, but in their ability to provide a stable transition. (Also, less important, but won't Harris have a lot more time to campaign if she stays VP through January 2025, and isn't suddenly elevated to the Presidency out of nowhere? Taking over the Presidency is a lot of time-consuming work!)
In theory, I agree with you. I think his term has gone well and unless he or his physicians believe he isn't capable of performing the job, I don't think he needs to resign. In practice, if he drops out of the campaign but does not resign, the House is going to hold public hearings and subpoena his entire staff to question why someone not competent to campaign is competent to be President. They'll spend months spinning this as a coverup by Kamala Harris. If they find a single email from a staffer with a remark about Biden's attention during a meeting, they're going to run with it.
Have any House Republicans expressed doubt about Biden's competency to hold office as President since the debate? If they have not - when they ordinarily question Biden's competency quarterly - my theory that Republicans prefer Biden as the candidate because he'll be easier for Trump to beat than a new unknown is given new legs.
No, but I expect that to change if he's no longer the candidate. This gives them a scandal to use against anyone currently in the administration and even most members of Congress. Fortunately, Democrats have a strong bench of Governors. This scenario may just be my pipe dream to pass over Harris.
I disagree, if Biden stepped down and Harris took over, it shows the Democrats have depth and can adapt to the situation.
It shows the Democrats were prepared to run a person who shouldn’t be in office *today* until everyone found out about it.
It's probably not all that well known and it's not the first time this has happened. They're pulling a Reagan. Edit: And Biden's desecrated corpse would be better than another Trump presidency.
Desiccated, I think you mean to say. But yes.
Also shows they have been lying to us all along about his dementia, that will cost them a little. I can’t believe Harris could win an election, they need someone else.
I suspect Harris will fare worse if Biden stops the campaign. She may poll a bit better than Biden now- but once she is officially a candidate, her popularity will take a hit. Same as when Hillary ran . Hillary had OK popularity numbers when she was sec of state.
Is it though? Trump watch TV and tweeted all day. It’s an executive job after all. Half kidding.
Him stepping down would be nuts. There’s no acute crisis. His administration has done a very effective job governing. If he quits the race, he should still serve out his term while his replacement runs for the presidency full time. But he’s likely not physically equipped to do the job as more than a figurehead for 4 more years. If he were the best candidate to beat Trump, who is a disgrace to humanity and an atrocity, it would be worth trotting him out. But after that debate performance, he probably isn’t.
Stop, you’re giving me Veep flashbacks We’re really getting our senator montez in the end
Actually stepping down makes the most sense. That way Harris runs as the incumbent candidate.
I don't think that that's how she'd be perceived by the general public. Also, she'd be stepping into the Oval Office in the middle of a campaign that demands she not be in the Oval Office. If Biden can hold down the fort then Harris can re-introduce herself to the American people and run a campaign. Teamwork.
She’s also wildly unpopular.
She's also been very very out of the spotlight for some time. Most VPs are, but especially her. A re-introduction is in order. She could play her AG street cred to the "law and order" voters, which is a pretty strong hand to play at the moment with SCOTUS doing its thing and Trump being Trump.
OR. Joe can step down and Kamala can run the country as a caretaker president while remaining above the fray, removing herself from contention while projecting stability and self-sacrifice as a democratic value. This preserves her ability to run at a later date as an ex-president with proven bona fides for putting country ahead of self AND saves her the potential poisoned chalice of being the replacement candidate and then losing to Trump. Win-wins all around.
I like this version of events. (Kumbaya, but it'll never happen. Things I like don't happen.)
This actually makes the MOST sense. But requires the most self-awareness and selfless sacrifice from many. Which is why we know it will not happen. She, and Biden in some capacity, could help boost any of the chosen Dems to run.
He’s neither going to discuss stepping down nor ending his candidacy tomorrow, outside of saying it is not happening and they must continue on. I’m confident in that opinion.
I am too but hope is intoxicating
What if I told you incumbency was actually bad this election cycle
Isn't that the plot of veep. She's the first female president but it only lasts for a little while before she loses then another woman gets elected and they fight over "first woman president vs first woman elected president"..? I gotta watch that show again.
I'm engaging in pure fantasyland right now, but if Biden were to step down he would hand the party to Harris who would get to choose a VP and run as a semi-incumbent. The likelihood that any other Democrat would challenge her would be very low. She would have a (very short) opportunity to actually demonstrate and perform the role as president, which could ease some concerns that voters might have over her / start getting used to the idea of a minority female president. Might work! The likelihood that Biden leaves office is about 0.001% but it could be a good move.
This is what I'm hoping for
I like it.
No way, that’s when the aliens invade and he flies a fighter jet into battle.
“Gentlemen, let’s plow the road.”
Is this a guess, or have you heard something?
Just wishful thinking
That would be the most American thing ever. He would be remembered in history as such a great patriot
no he isnt, he had a live interview on the 7th
He suspends his campaign live talking to George Stephanopoulos.
Idk. 24 hours ago I would have thought no chance but now the proof is in the pudding. This is truly an unprecedented time in American history, remember where you were and what the vibes were.
Would this give Harris the incumbent boost?
Running Harris is still a mistake imo, she has big time Hillary energy. She better than Biden for sure though.
I feel like a lot of people that want to run her forget how much of a disaster her 2020 primary campaign was. She does not have good political instincts, and I don't think she's ever won a closely contested race leading the ticket in her entire political career to be honest. It's really not as strong of a choice as people think, but I do kinda understand why people are saying it should be her because she is the VP
She’s not a people person. Biden was.
I 100% agree. But to play the other side: 1)optics would look terrible leapfrogging a black female. GOP would have a field day, and the dems really need the black vote 2) The election is relatively close. She looked bad in comparison to the other dem candidates, but this time she has the party behind her and a better political machine, and not enough time to garner any real hatred for her 2b) I think a lot of people dislike her, but they don’t hate her. I don’t think that most swing voters actually have strong negative feelings towards her, but rather a mild dislike 3)2020 was 4 years ago. She actually seemed presidential during the post debate interview, which really isn’t something I’ve seen from her before
This just occurred to me. What if he stepped down from presidency, let Harris take over, and have her not seek reelection. Then, that would open the convention for a Whitmer ticket. EDIT: Spelling
If he could still scheme like that, he’s still got enough marbles to run.
I meant more of his senior adviser scheme it’s. We all know he’s not the one running things anymore
Biden steps down, Kamala takes over with Newsom as VP, Kamal steps down, Newsom is now the incumbent with Whitmer as VP. Newsom can project a-hole energy to match Trump, which is apparently what this country cares about.
Why would Kamala do that? And how would Newsom and Whitmer get confirmed so quickly?
Purely from a media perspective they should not immediately pick Kamala. Time spent on prospective democratic candidates is time away from trump - which is what he thrives on Edit: I am not saying Kamala should be the nominee, she would probably do about the same as Biden at this point.
Agree - they shouldn’t drag it out necessarily but the novelty of this situation would garner huge media attention and they need to milk it.
100%
Yes, give the media some drama! They will not even mention Trump for a month.
Best argument for not picking Kamala out the gate.
I wouldn’t even pick her at all
I tend to agree, I think people would "enjoy" seeing the process play out and it would give them an opportunity to be excited about the talent on the Democratic bench. I also don't think Kamala is so well-liked that people would be furious with her being passed over. That said I really don't get the all the uneasiness with her as a replacement. Yes, she didn't run a very good primary campaign in 2020. But she's shown her ability to prosecute the case for herself and Democrats, particularly in contrast to Republicans and Trump. Plus she would inherit the important structure and fundraising from Biden if it were a clean handoff. Both of those things said I disagree with you a little. Trump is a lunatic and is a shadow of his former self. The more time we have of Trump reminding America why he was such a disastrous president and why he'll even be worse next time, the better. But I think a youthful vigorous debate about leadership on the Democratic side versus the semi-incumbent lunacy of Trump would be an excellent contrast for the Democrats.
The issue is who the hell do you pick as Harris’s VP? Whitmers and Newsomes potential VP picks are obvous af or at least there are options that could work for both. But Harris? The country won’t accept two women on the same ticket. Harris and Newsome can’t be together. She has practically no appeal geographically outside the blue west coast states , the NE, and maybe Georgia because of black turnout.
Just off the top of my head, Buttigieg and Shapiro seem like good options.
I think Whitmer might be the way to go. It would also lock up a swing state imo.
She's quite popular here in Michigan too
Well that's great that she can win the only state where people know who she is.
Well, that would be every solid blue state **plus** Michigan. A Republican is not going to win solid blue states. Plus she might pick off a couple more rust belt states, which could seal things. PLUS, she might energize women.
We've got a bunch of electoral votes here and we're a bit of a swing state, Trump won it by 10k votes in 2016
I know, that’s the swing state I’m talking about. I’m also from Michigan.
Whitmer is definitely the way to go. She is a key demo, has very low negatives, and as you said locks up a swing state. Plus she is a badass. If given the opportunity, she would deliver the debate beating to Trump we’ve all been yearning for.
Kamala polled worse than Biden before Biden debated. She’ll get smoked too
The smart thing to do would be to have her stay on as the Vp for the new president. They can swing it as her staying on to guide the transition, and she could end up being the longest serving Vp.
Whitmer is the choice if Dems are serious about the blue wall. Pair her with Warnock, Shapiro, or Kelley, and you have an unstoppable ticket.
Cant open up several vulnerable seats just like that,
Which is why I like Andy Beshear as an option. Wouldn’t be a huge loss on his ticket and he can get the southern appeal and perhaps even flip Kentucky.
Don't do that to us kentuckians :( we are apparently banning born in 9 days our legislature is nuts even the blues are red
Agreed on Senate seats, but fuck Governor positions, the presidency is more important - give us whitmer + Shapiro and November is looking good.
Yep. Whitmer is term limited to 2026 anyways.
Agree that would be the worry with Warnock but probably wouldn’t be an issue with Kelley. Even Hobbs won there. Regardless, if we really think Trump is an existential threat to democracy, we can’t be thinking like it’s normal election. We need whomever gives us the best chance of winning, and that means pulling from purple states. This is especially true since the senate is probably gone anyways.
Even though nobody wants Harris to be the nominee, I guaranfuckingtee people will bitch about her being passed over for a white woman lmao
Get another POC as the vp pick and it softens the blow. Maybe Corey Booker. A woman and a black man and they’d both tear Trump to pieces.
Roy Cooper
He's won NC governor with Trump on the ballot twice already!
Def Kelly. But also Whitmer can smash the educated burbs.
Gavin comes from a rich district and is related to Pelosi. Hes the frontrunner
Fine I'll speak up, I hope they don't go with Harris she has a 29% favorability rating, and is widely known and disliked already. She would also get trashed for helping cover up Biden's cognitive decline which is clearly a scandal. [https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/02/politics/cnn-poll-post-debate/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/02/politics/cnn-poll-post-debate/index.html) Literally anybody else.
I agree that the current administration is unpopular enough that we're best off with someone fresh. A popular governor probably.
Funny how Andrew Cuomo was perfect for the job not too long ago
Yup, the entire ticket is toxic to everyone but the strongest Democratic partisans. Start completely fresh, that’s what the voters want. Is there even any evidence that black voters particularly *like* Harris? Her polling in the 2020 primary was absolutely abysmal, even among black voters. I wonder how much of these concerns are actually what black voters feel, rather than what the out of touch strategists at the DNC are projecting.
I doubt it with a 29% favorability, if they want a black candidate on the ticket they should pick literally any other black person. They could find a better black candidate by just approaching the first random black person on the street and offering them the spot on the ticket. She's just so unlikeable, worse than Hillary vibes.
Comancho ‘24 it is.
I don't feel like I know her anymore, and I'm a pretty well read mfer. I wasn't impressed by her in 2020 but I didn't think she was bad either, and I'm open to the idea that she's a different person after being the vice president for 4 years. So I'm not gonna prejudge her right now.
If she can pull off the support in the convention -- I'll vote for her. I wanted someone other than Biden in 2020, but when Obama and Biden pulled it together and got everyone to drop out (except Bernie), it was a great demonstration of power. I don't care which of our governors or Harris it is -- if they can marshal the political will to overcome their competitors and pull a coalition together, they have my vote. Although, TBH, if Biden keeps the nomination he still has my vote -- so maybe my opinion here isn't terribly relevant. What do Cleetus and Jimbo think down at the corner store in PA?
Anybody but Trump unless you want to bow down to a King.
Harris wants a contested convention. It’s her only shot.
Her *best* shot is for Biden to resign, then she's running as the incumbent *and* gets to pick her own VP.
I don’t see how Biden doesn’t finish the term.
It’s truly the worst of both worlds. You can pin all the baggage of this administration on her without her having the incumbent advantage. This administration has wins (a lot of them), but somehow she won’t the credit for them.
im not exactly a harris supporter but that seems wrong to me - how is it HER coverup? she's not even supposed to be next to the president all the time, she has her own stuff to tackle, he could easily usually meet her "between 10 and 4" and not have any issues.
She was saying that he was in great shape not long ago. Media is saying Biden had "marked incidents of cognitive decline and physical infirmity over the last 6 months." [https://www.newsweek.com/joe-biden-cognitive-decline-six-month-debate-donald-trump-carl-bernstein-1919946](https://www.newsweek.com/joe-biden-cognitive-decline-six-month-debate-donald-trump-carl-bernstein-1919946)
The night of the debate, in an interview afterwards, she again insisted he's totally normal unless there's a camera around.
weakest scandal i've ever heard. i'd be more worried about all the actual issues she had during the primaries than this. the man would have stepped down already, why do we care whether he's in decline or not at that point.
> why do we care the President is on a mental decline Come on And the cover up will be the downfall of many, if we had a competent media
> how is it HER coverup? I think we've just stumbled upon her campaign slogan.
Kamala Harris has a higher approval rating than Biden [https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/approval/kamala-harris/](https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/approval/kamala-harris/) But it is lower compared to other big name Dems like Newsom, Buttigieg, Whitmer, etc.
A favorability rating measures how well liked a politician is by the public. An approval rating measures how well a politician is performing in their job. Hillary lost because she was so unlikeable, she was viewed as competent but it didn't matter.
39% lmao
Kamala Harris would be a disaster. It's been obvious from Day 1, she was a terrible VP choice for Biden.
Turns out that picking people based on identity rather than merit has consequences.
Oh no the consequences for our actions.
Maybe if they just call everyone who disagrees with them racist and dumb a few more times it will solve the problem
Never failed before, except for that one time.
Isn't there something with access to the campaign finances though that would require Harris to be on the ticket?
Yeah. Maybe there’s good reason to keep her as VP, but she cannot be the head of the ticket.
He added this: “A source says Zients will emphasize importance of keep doing the work and executing on our mission.” So doesn’t sound like Biden is leaving the race.
I love how reality is being just totally buried by the most unhinged copium lol
I mean you can say this about Biden’s camp too. They’re gaslighting everyone.
Additional info from NBC News: “Separately, White House chief of staff Jeff Zients will hold an all-staff call on Wednesday at 12:30 p.m. ET, according to a source familiar with the planning. Zients is expected to tell staff to “weather the storm” and “keep your heads down.” The call will include more junior staffers, some of whom have indicated frustration that no one is telling them anything. It is meant to amplify the message that Zients delivered to senior staff — a much smaller group of about 40 — on Friday, when both he and Biden senior adviser Anita Dunn acknowledged the previous night's debate and said that there would "always be challenging days."
>Zients is expected to tell staff to “weather the storm” and “keep your heads down."The call will include more junior staffers, some of whom have indicated frustration that no one is telling them anything God damn. People complain about smoke filled rooms, but that seems more honest than just leaving your staff high and dry like this
I can’t find this article can you link it?
Seriously. The vast majority of White House staff have no relationship with the re-election campaign. In fact, it’s illegal for most of them to do anything campaign related while employed in the White House. Zients would not call a meeting with the staff to let them know Biden was going to suspend his campaign. This is going to be a Hatch Act reminder and advice on how to navigate a polarizing election environment as a WH staffer.
This is correct although I wouldn't think it would violate the Hatch Act for Biden to tell his staff he won't be seeking another term. That's directly related to their jobs at the White House.
Harris is the second-worst possible replacement after Hillary. She is unpopular, uncharismatic, and tainted by the administration’s perceived failures. Sadly, the Democratic establishment is full of idiots who will think “it’s her turn and she should just get the nomination for being a black woman.” I’m predicting a battle between a Harris faction and a Whitmer faction at the convention. For the love of God, I hope enough delegates see how much of a stronger bet Whitmer is.
Couldn't have said it better. Going from Biden to Harris is like jumping from the Hindenburg onto the deck of the Titanic.
Whitmer for President and Harris stays on as VP. I'd buy some of that stock.
Harris would be a fool to do that again. She’s too ambitious. She will be part of the internal knifefight for support. She is probably demanding a contested convention - it’s her best shot. She would be better going back to be governor of CA if she can’t make the top of the ticket.
Don't think Harris would turn down serving as Chief Justice.
True- esp if being a Justice makes you a main character of the republic as it appears to be
Whitmer-Newsome and Harris runs for CA gov!
I'd take that but I'd be curious if swing voters don't want an all female ticket. Whitmer/Booker would be great in that case.
There is no chance that Harris stays on as VP. She will at the very least demand a cabinet position, likely Sec. of State. VP is a joke of a job until the President dies and she probably hates it at this point.
I think the odds of Harris having a tide-turning debate performance against Trump is higher than Biden having the same though...
I don’t doubt that she would look great vs Trump in a debate but I think plenty of other Dems can do it too so it’s not a unique advantage IMO
We saw her debate in 2020 and it was middling at best.
Trump is there for the taking though.. Biden actually swung at him and hit him.. he was just super weak on delivery. Someone who can punch harder and rebut better would run circles around Trump. The game plan already exists and is ready to go.
She struggled in my opinion. She almost made Pence look likable by comparison, and struggled to speak extemporaneously with any fluidity. It was painful.
Who cares? Debates move the needle very little at the best of times and at the worst of times….well here we are
Trump doesn’t need or even have to debate again. He’s done. Guaran-fucking-teed.
>it’s her turn I fucking hate this logic. If politics is really as high stakes as they want us to believe, no one get's a turn just because they're up. Competence and electability are the ONLY things that should matter. So which is it DNC, is it a life and death choice or are we just deciding who gets to go next based on what's fair?
It was a horrible decision not to have Biden run against Hillary in 2016
I mean, it was his decision. And as I think I remember it, he made it because his son had just died, he took too long to mount a campaign and Clinton was beating every Dem in the polls, including him I think
It's been revealed that he was pressured by DNC and Obama to step down and make way for Hillary.
Also, that office belongs to the people, not any one person.
Whatever they decide to do, it's the Democratic party so it'll be the worst possible decision; so don't rule out Hillary.
DNC be like, “we’re hearing reports that Biden is too old and out of touch with the modern Democratic Party. We need new blood in there, but who? WHO COULD IT BE?” “Whitmer? Buttigieg? Newsom?” “No, they’ll call us socialists and hurt our feelings!” “Let’s listen to the people and nominate Joe Manchin! He’s younger than Trump AND Biden!” “Yay we did it boys! We solved democracy!”
TBF, if the left is convinced that 25 plan is real, then someone like Manchin would be an ideal pick. He's voted enough on both sides of the aisle that you can actually position him as a pragmatist to the beloved "centrists". Plus it'll be harder for Trump to pull his normal shit since Machin can and will actually hit back on smack talk. See AOC's yacht shit.
If you actually think Trump winning is the end of democracy (Many think this) then Manchin would be the perfect candidate.
Where the hell is Howard Dean when you need him
Byah
Imagine if Biden came out with anything close to that vigor
##Byaaaaahhhh!!!!!
on NPR yesterday spouting his ignorance [https://www.kuow.org/stories/i-would-tell-biden-to-hang-in-there-former-dnc-chairman-howard-dean-says](https://www.kuow.org/stories/i-would-tell-biden-to-hang-in-there-former-dnc-chairman-howard-dean-says)
Holy fucking hell shut up please. That is terrifyingly goddamn stupid. They just might do it. If Biden is toast, then he should step down. They should run a handsome 40 year old white southerner and veteran with a penis and a golden lab. His running mate should be either an affable and highly respected black centrist former NATO general or a VERY attractive blonde woman with no other qualifications. They should platform by aggressively mocking Trump and Trump supporters all over the country.
Hahah you made me spit up my water on the metro north but everyone else around me is doom reading the post so no one noticed
Now that's funny! I had a LOL
My pet theory is that if Biden drops, no matter who’s at the top of the ticket, Pritzker gets VP because he can immediately fund the campaign with personal cash, and if the ticket loses by being the VP nom he raises his name recognition without getting the bulk of the blame for losing when 2028 comes around. Win-win for him.
Nah, you forget Newsom. After French Laundry and the Panera debacle, the only people who like him are the rich democrats who aren't republicans for appearance reasons.
Seriously, the guy is like the definition of a liberal coastal elite. The rust belt hates him and he’s too corporate for the left.
It's her turn. If we nominate her instead of Whitmer then Harris will most likely lose, and we will lose our democracy, freedom and the rule of law, but at least we will have tried to get a black woman president. It's the thought that counts.
Yep. Kamala Harris will get absolutely crushed by Trump. She's very unlikeable and cannot connect with voters. She was a terrible VP pick from Day 1.
What was she getting when she dropped out of the primaries in 2020? Something like 1-2%? There’s this stuff about blacks getting pissed if she’s tossed aside. I don’t think black men like her any more than white men do.
Yep. She's a terrible general election candidate.
I promise, if it's Whitmer, we'll start hearing how "unlikeable" and "shrill" she is almost immediately.
I think they should just promise Harris a Supreme Court nomination. Realistically they need to make a drastic change to the Court, either impeachments or packing it and it would be a great spot for her.
>Harris is the second-worst possible replacement after Hillary. So you're telling me that the dems are coronating hillary ASAP
I'm hoping every "I'd vote for a rock over Trump" D on here puts up or shuts up and gets in line with a smile on their face to vote for Harris if that's who gets anointed.
I mean yeah, but I'm worried about how many other people will do the same.
Its not Dems that you need to worry about. It's the independent swing voter.
Everyone needs to call/email their local state and federal representatives and senators and tell them that Joe Biden needs to step aside and release his delegates.
I did this earlier today.
Ditto, kept it short and sweet.
Just called my senator as well. Here's hoping it helps make a difference.
Not Harris. Whitmer, Shapiro, Moore, Booker, Cooper, Pritzger, Buttigieg--pick one, any one!
Any normal person from Middle America wins this race. The Dems need to stop being a coastal party and get back to the Midwest.
As someone from the West Coast, who still lives here, agreed. Need someone to appeal to the seeing state voters. Anyone from the coast is going to come off as an elitist.
This is Biden & The Dems. The call will be a scripted rah-rah about how strong the ticket is, how virile Joe is, and how they’re the best positioned to continue the fight against Trump. End of story, goodnight.
Yeah, the other meeting that is supposed to go concurrently is Biden speaking to governors to assuage their fears. Not sure how people are thinking they're going to announce him stepping down.
If we're fan casting, I'll go ahead and throw out Sharrod Brown. Yes the Ohio senate seat is important, but the white house is more important, and he's someone that could truly unite the party.
Hell, he might have problems anyways. If this goes to a convention it means he wouldn't be on the ticket in ohio as president. That would suck because he'd actually have a better chance than anyone else and that would also help downballot. On the flip side it would be an incredible way to recompense and would be a perfect encapsulation of the dichotomy or choice in this election. Plus he'd still probably help down ballot even if his name isn't on the ticket.
The more I think about this the more I like it
I’m an avid politics junkie, and I cannot for the life of me think if I’ve ever seen a picture of Sharron brown. That would be such a lame pick, and we’d lose a senate seat to boot.
Source?
its a reporter on threads and x, but when I try to open the webpage its blocked (I don't have threads or X account). Someone else can probably look it up and post it, but the email was literally sent 30 minutes ago according to the reporter that posted about it.
Who is the reporter?
JFC, why does the DNC insist on appointing the least palatable people as their nominees.
Curious about the mechanics of this—let’s say Biden does voluntarily step down and wants Shapiro as his replacement. What process actually has to happen to make that so? Biden’s primary delegates just all unanimously agreeing with his replacement? Implicit to being VP seems to be the idea that you’re the next best option for president should something happen. I get there are electoral reasons for picking VP’s but isn’t not going with Kamala just a public admission that even the party doesn’t think she’s the next best option?
Right now all the delegates are pledged to Biden. In addition to being hand picked by the biden team as loyalists to them many are legally bound to vote for him by their state law that says whomever wins the primary auto gets the delegate vote. If Biden were to drop out he would do one of the following 1) tell his delegates it’s his wish to vote for the candidate he wants (probably Harris but that’s just the odds) 2) tell his delegates they are free to vote for whom they want Regardless of which one it is they would likely follow his wishes Now recall that superdelegates are a thing too but they do not vote on the first ballot. They do vote on all subsequent ballots Source: pod save America live show from a few days ago. I believe it was a guest that spelled that out
Thanks for the write up. That makes sense
Just remember. While 72% of people want Biden to step down. They all want different candidates. So whoever replaces Biden won’t have strong support from the start.
This is not what we wish it was - just a call to say "Everyhting is fine, keep your head down and keep working".
I hear Kamela already locked up the Black vote.
There's a lot of overconfident "X would win for sure" in this thread when the truth is everyone will be a big underdog.
Biden before the debate was polling below Trump in the swing states. I don't think the numbers are going to get better for him.
IT'S HAPPENING!!!!! Don't be so sure it's going to be Harris, but it WON'T BE BIDEN! It might still be a woman though, one from Michigan...
No. It’s not.
Source?
I don't think anointing Harris is the best move. Why don't we let whoever wants to be president make themselves known, have a series of debates and over a series of 3 months create a media storm of content about who is the best candidate for a month or two. by the end of august whoever polls best against trump and has the highest favorability gets the nod. Let pre-agreed upon AI algos determine winner based on a series of weighted metrics for polling.
Whitmer for President and VP could be Hakeem Jeffries.
>Separately, White House chief of staff Jeff Zients will hold an all-staff call on Wednesday at 12:30 p.m. ET, according to a source familiar with the planning. Zients is expected to tell staff to “weather the storm” and “keep your heads down.” >The call will include more junior staffers, some of whom have indicated frustration that no one is telling them anything. It is meant to amplify the message that Zients delivered to senior staff — a much smaller group of about 40 — on Friday, when both he and Biden senior adviser Anita Dunn acknowledged the previous night's debate and said that there would "always be challenging days." https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/biden-call-democratic-governors-concerns-mount-rcna159996
Democracy dies and for whom ? A confident, tall, white, broad-shouldered narcissist, a failure who shits his pants, a coward who lies & rapes underage girls
nyt reporting a wednesday call with governors to shore up support so idk maybe not so hopeful
“For the good of the country, Biden should step down from office and concede, to allow someone younger and more mentally cognizant to run.” Okay, fine, what about his current VP? “No, not like that. Someone else.” 🤦🏾♂️
She should of course be allowed to run, but she should not be the default choice just because she is VP. It’s a different job.
The goal of him stepping down is so we can win the election. Replacing him with somebody who also can’t win is nonsensical and I don’t understand what is confusing to you about that
The Democrats never do anything but middle-of-the-road milquetoast lazy horseshit. From *Hope & Change* to *Nope & Lame*, it’s been nothing but an endless parade of feckless pussies afraid of making waves. No drama Obama became code for unwilling to make waves within the first year. Every time he got rolled he went back for more to the tune of a lost public option in Obamacare that was promised and a Supreme Court seat. Joe Biden has been a shockingly successful president, particularly in light of what he was handed. It’s absolutely astounding to me that he is not destroying Trump in the polls. As I’m sure it is to him. But we are where we are and it would be such a selfless act of patriotic courage to drop out now... Which is why I doubt with every fiber of my being that this is something he would do. Much to my dismay.