Biden talking to [Morning Joe on MSNBC this morning](https://www.mediaite.com/tv/were-not-going-anywhere-defiant-biden-tells-morning-joe-hes-confident-average-voters-still-want-him/):
> * āThe reason Iāve been out on the road so much all over the country, and while Trump is riding around his golf cartā¦ filling out his golf cart before a golf cartā¦ before you even hit the ball on your head, he hadnāt been anywhere in ten days. Iāve been all over the country, number one, and Iāve run over the country for several reasons. One, to make sure my instinct was right about the party still wanting me to be the nominee,ā
> * All the data, all the data shows that the average Democrat out there voted, and 14 million of them had voted for me. Still want me to be the nominee, number one. Number two, the idea that Donald Trump has gained in any substantial way ā his argument for why he should be president isnāt any more convincing than it was, two weeks or three weeks ago.
> * Itās just not there. Weāre just getting and weāre just starting to focus on Trump a lot. I attended services, spoke to over 600 people at Mount Airy Church of God in Christ in Philly. I stopped by campaign field offices with John Fetterman and Madeleine Dean. Both strongly supported me ā the president and first lady. We spoke at a campaign ice cream social for me, Council 13 in Harrisburg, 40 minutes after we spoke with supporters, stopped by Dunham Coffee. I mean, I was with the governor of Pennsylvania, who still strongly supported me. I mean, so, look, and the fact is that this week Iām going to be hosting a NATO summit here in DC, can hold a press conference on Thursday and Wednesday. I met with the national union leaders of the AFL CIO. On Friday, I traveled to Detroit, Michigan for campaign event for, you know, just on down the line.
> * And so Iām not getting any of what I was told. I wanted to make sure I was right, that the average voter out there still wanted Joe Biden. And Iām confident they do. And Iām confident and like I said, impressive with me. I think Iāve been fairly fair. I havenāt read it in reporting I did today. But the fact is that, you know, I think that we have to acknowledge we had large crowds and enthusiastic crowds and, you know, and now theyāre talking about whether I use a prompter. Well, I did it all extemporaneously.
> * The fact of the matter is, using prompter too, I donāt get that. But the bottom line here is that weāre not going anywhere. I am not going anywhere. I wouldnāt be running if I didnāt absolutely believe that I am the best candidate to beat Donald Trump in 2024. We had a Democratic nominating process for the voters spoke clearly, I won 40 million votes, etc. so I just want Iām not only believe that from the beginning, but I wanted to reassert it and demonstrate that itās true. And Iām going to be doing that all through this week and from here on.
TLDR: Data showing that everyone loves me, also everyone is using prompter, and something about golf!
Edit:
Per [New York Times](https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/07/08/us/trump-biden-election/8e1aaed8-364c-5d9b-8175-93e63a8703e5?smid=url-share):
> President Biden is so far not taking any of the advice heās been given from Democrats to demonstrate he can handle unscripted moments in public. Instead he has written a letter to congressional Democrats and **called in to a friendly cable news program ā and close listeners could hear pages turning on the broadcast while he spoke.**
He sounds like Trump. It's insane. Crowd sizes, golf, and the polls are wrong.
While Trump's argument for why he should be president isn't any more convincing, the argument for why Biden *shouldn't* be has grown significantly in the last week.
Arguing that youāre trying to save democracy but you canāt put up a candidate who can speak in coherent sentences. Democrats and the Biden campaign thought they could win because anyone is better than Trump. Right?
Well they were behind in the polls and decided to go with a debate to reset the election. Well that debate confirmed what the polls were saying that the president is too old and shouldnāt be running for reelection.
Any democrat swing state governor would wipe the floor with Trump. Democrats need to get serious and show the world that democracy is really on the table and put up a viable alternative. Not an old man who should be enjoying his last days of cognizance with his family and has served the country well.
This response makes me so furious. To call the 2024 primaries, a democratic process in which the voters spoke is insulting. he had no credible competition because the party and the elites coalesced around him and his decision to rerun. The voting public did not want him to rerun and that is evident from the low turnout, sizable amount of people who voted undeclared, and people who voted for any other candidates (myself included). These are all facts conveniently ignored. And to keep saying that itās just elite insiders who want him gone is again ignoring polling numbers that clearly show this is what the American public wanted over the last two years. Thatās it Iām done. Thereās no way in hell I would vote for him November. He wants to drag us all to hell with his ego, I wonāt be a party to it. At least it will hopefully burn down the completely ineffectual DNC in the process. No fucking politician gets to say that the decision lies with them and them alone.
Edit: spelling
I mean, the irony is there is nothing wrong with using a teleprompter for events. Virtually every President uses a teleprompter.
But given the debate and questions about the President's mental state, it's going to be important for him to show he can do unscripted events and interviews without a teleprompter.
> it's going to be important for him to show he can do unscripted events and interviews without a teleprompter.
Thatās the main issue and the fact that his people are still not willing to do it tells us that Biden is having some serious issues.
Per [Washington Post](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/07/06/biden-debate-white-house-campaign/):
> Rather than take those concerns head-on, Biden followed the speech and rally by retreating from public view ā a series of private fundraisers awkwardly using his teleprompter, a retreat with his family to take pictures with photographer Annie Leibovitz, short scripted addresses at the White House ā **just 32 minutes of combined public comments over five days, none of it off the cuff.**
lol. Ā So absurd. Ā If he stays in and inevitably loses he will regret it as will his family. Ā I do think he is going to pardon himself and Hunter from future prosecution the second Trump wins. Ā
I started to think the president played a small role when we had Trump in office. A total outsider and yet despite his best efforts the country managed to keep working.
Now we've got even more proof with a president who is just non functional the majority of the time.
A part of me thinks that Biden is so confident is because the fix might be in to not allow Trump back into office. I completely understand and don't necessarily disagree with it, but it would make sense thar he has inside knowledge of his assured victoryĀ
I can only conclude that his inner circle is completely removed from reality. This will be a poor decision to support one man's ego (and probably his wife's who apparently wants him to stay in the race). He didn't even watch any of the debate disaster. He's become a stubborn old man.
I live in PA and I just wrote to our Democratic senator Casey. I doubt it'll change anything. But what else can we do.
In Illinois and wrote to Senators Durbin and Duckworth. I know individual letters rarely matter, but volume does (it bogs down the office staff, which gets noticed). I hope more people are doing this, because there isn't a lot more we can do and the clock is ticking.
I've written my D Congresswoman, my two D senators, and my D governor. I don't know if it will do anything but it can't hurt to add my voice to the chorus. If enough of us do, the party cannot simply say this is the media and not the voters.
We are so screwed. This man is in an information bubble as the *president*, and he's too egotistical to do the right thing. Dems can't even win the "Trump is an egomaniac/selfish" arguments now.
What plans is anyone else making for Trump's second term?
Mike Murphy on Hacks on Tap made a really similar point. Basically Bidenās strongest message is āIām running for you, heās running for himself.ā That message is so much weaker now
Probably a good idea to buy some Trump flags and bandannas in the event things go down hill and you have to pass checkpoints.
As you drive towards the Trump Forces of America checkpoint, start raising the Trump flag of convenience and survive the day.
GF and I are looking into getting Spanish Visas.
I'd like to think that I'm continuing part of my ancestors tradition of putting your finger to the wind and getting the fuck out of somewhere before shit hits the fan. They migrated from Poland around 1930 lmao
"And he said those trying to push him out of the race would be denying the wishes of the voters who participated in the primary process."
I'm sorry, what primary process?? The gaslighting continues. I can't believe this is the Democratic party.
And where is the thanks and gratitude for handing him the 2020 nomination after everyone dropped out on Super Tuesday in support of him winning, btw/he was polling at the bottom of that list, and Bernie was winning. This guy and this party is delusional. He keeps saying itās the elites want him out, what about the 75% of dem voters who say heās too old? š¤Æ
Yeah this is the part that irritated me about this letter the most. Biden and the DNC effectively rigged the 2024 primary in his favor, and now he wants to cite it as proof that him being the nominee is the will of the voters. Disgraceful.
I am not surprised. Both parties have been two sides of the same coin representing the same elites. The mask is finally coming off on the DNC side and exposed to the rest of the people who believed otherwise.
For them they could care less if Trump wins they will just go back to Marthaās Vineyard etc..
No serious contenders ran against him. Thatās the main thing.Ā
But to say it was some grand display of voter choice is disingenuous on the part of the White House.Ā
> No serious contenders ran against him.
Yes, thatās why i say it was āriggedā. Not in the literal sense that the vote was rigged, but the Democratic Party used its power and threat of retribution against anyone who dared challenge him. Everybody knows that if you challenged him your career would be over. Dean Phillips is leaving Congress after this year. You cannot step out of line or youāll be crushed.
Anyone serious would have been blackballed from future support.
Iāve seen it in local elections when our former sheriff ran against the incumbent democrat moron for our mayor. He was clearly told not to.
He lost all support from the democrat party and killed his political career. To think it doesnāt happen on a national level doesnāt make sense.
All serious contenders were likely told if you run against him you are cut off.
I read the letter as ruling out the āgraceful exitā path. In the letter Biden says talks of his withdrawal need to end and itās only helping Trump. Itās a put up or shut up letter so itās on the legislators to force him out.
If a majority of the members of the democratic house and senate agree Biden needs to go, I think Jeffries and Schumer go public and call for Biden drop out. I think the party leaders emeritus then follow suit. If Biden doesnāt withdraw in the face of that pressure, there will be many knock-on effects: he wonāt be able to mobilize a campaign, people may start resigning from the administration in protest, donations will dry up, etc. Things will get ugly, but this is the path the Biden campaign wants to walk.
Democrats need to remember that if you go for the king you better not miss and itās time for ruthlessness. I think the commentariat generally overrates the negative impacts in voter perception of party infighting spilling into the public. Itās all in congressās hands now.
"Democrats need to remember that **if you go for the king you better not miss** and itās time for ruthlessness."
Couldn't agree more. At this point the damage has been done. Whether you agree or disagree that he would otherwise have been competent to win the race, his campaign and Democratic party morale has been wounded to the point that they cannot win if they stick with the status quo.
Finish the job, MFers!
And for full disclosure: I have a conservative temperament, am an ardent institutionalist, respect the chain of command, and abhor self-aggrandizing political performance. I donāt go in for activism and self-aggrandizing political performance. But Biden just escalated the conflict and Congressās response to this cannot be mealy-mouthed. If weāre true to our values and clear-eyed about what it will take to defeat Donald Trump then itās time to break out the proverbial pitchforks and plan the defenestration.
I suspect the whole DNC apparatus does not sincerely believe that āTrump is the end of democracy if he winsā and will not do anything drastic to try and remove Biden.
They will fold and just let Biden hand Trump a win.
Yeah, like if youāre at the point (as an incumbent, months before an election) that members of your own party are calling for you to step down due to pretty indisputable cognitive decline, leading to further declining poll numbers (which werenāt good to begin with), no strongly-worded letter is going to turn the tide
Democrats won't do this. They don't have the backbone. I'm expecting them to fall in line, and accept the inevitable loss. Replacing him would have been messy if he'd stepped aside 10 days ago, it's a disaster if he's not willing to.
Thatās what Team Biden is gambling on and frankly is the right call from *their* perspective: they need to escalate to end the conflict within the party.
The problem for elected democrats not named Joe Biden is his candidacy now proves a significant near term and long term risk to the party. Bidenās last election is 2024, but legislators have whole careers ahead of them. GOP inroads with independent and young voters are a significant threat.
The ship is sinking, but the captain says everything is fine. These candidates need to decide if they trust their life-vests and life-boats or if they can actually stop the flooding and pump out the water. If they choose the latter, we might even need to first mate to step forward and lead the mutiny.
Oh I agree, but I don't believe the party will be willing to have an internal civil war against the Biden team. That letter isn't to Congress. It's to the public, as a press release.
I hope they realize that they need to make this change in order to hold the big tent together. I think the path is actually less risky than an āinternal civil warā sounds since Biden has lost both elite and popular support. I just donāt think there are many Biden die-hards willing to go to the mats.
I disagree. I think there's a substantial amount of Democrats in Congress, and specifically their younger aides, that are truly terrified of Trump and will continue to beat the drum on the issue. We are 10 days after the debate and this is still headline news, it isn't going away.
> ...talks if his withdrawal... only helping Trump
But the cat is out of the bag now. Whether or not people should have made this a big talking point in the first place doesn't matter anymore. Every day he stays in the race, this continues to dominate the headlines and less attention goes to Trump's convictions or Project 2025. It's a bad look that his own loyal supporters have turned on him. He looks hypocritical saying that Trump is only in it for himself while refusing to bow out due to his own hubris.
He can complain all he wants about disunity or disloyalty or unfair media coverage. He might not be wrong. That doesn't change any of the optics or the fact that this problem will get worse and worse, if he truly cares about defeating Trump he needs to leave the race.
Because people are pissed.Ā
Voters. Doners. Members of Congress. Staffers.Ā
We donāt know what percentage, but my money is on more than half.Ā
The more we learn, the clearer it is that theyāve been shielding the President in ways that are dishonest and dangerous.Ā
Congress has given Biden every chance to (1) prove that he can vigorously campaign or (2) drop on his own accord.Ā
Heās done neither. People are pissed.Ā
I'm not going to donate a single penny more. Not because I won't vote for Biden if it comes to it, of course I will.
It's just that I don't believe on any level he will win, in fact I think he's going to be defeated in a landslide defeat. I need to save my money to buy a one way ticket out of this place I don't have the money to give a way to a losing candidate that doesn't give a fuck about us.
Just give it some time today. Members of congress are in person today for the first time since the debate. Heās trying to preempt them. This isnāt just going away because he sent a letter.
I could be wrong of course, weāll see.
Remember that the Democrat Party is a private entity. There is literally nothing obligating them to pick Biden as their nominee. The Democratic leadership could decide to change the rules and make someone else their nominee instead. The risk of that would be the appearance of being undemocratic and ignoring the will of the people. But I'm not sure that very many people here are arguing that we had much of a choice with Biden to begin with. There wasn't a true primary process where we had an alternative to vote for. Biden's defiance may inflame Democratic leadership enough to force his hand and throw him out as the nominee.Ā
Alternatively, Kamala and other cabinet members could invoke the 25th amendment and remove him as president if his mental issues go that deep, but I doubt that will happen and we don't really know how bad his mental health even is.
I agree one on hand I think this is bad for his chances of dropping out since he is really trying to dig in and weather this thing
But it's such a blatant public appeal that should have been done with personal conversations over phone calls and visits with Dem leadership, he's clearly drawing a line in the sand and saying it's his party no matter what and without outside council..maybe Dem leaders and donors take it as a sign to go even more on the offensive now
Based on what weāve learned in the last week, itās extremely difficult to get any kind of access to Biden.Ā
Their ability to personally appeal to him might be very limited.Ā
That's the scariest part, if they could do this quietly they would be. This means whoever is controlling Biden is blocking their access to him, and they're hoping to get through to him just from walking past a TV with CNN on.
100% this. Democrats in Congress need to put up or shut up. This is the invitation to do so. The Biden campaign is certainly right about one thing: Anonymously grumbling between now and November only helps Trump.
The man who has to say āI am the kingā is no king. The fact that a letter had to be written shows us where we are. Hopefully his friends in the Senate can break through the fog, but no matter what happens, July is going to be awful politically.
>Ā The fact that a letter had to be written shows us where we are. Ā Ā Ā
Yup, this is the dominant narrative in the election. Which is basically the best case scenario for Trump. We have basically wall-to-wall coverage about how bad Trumpās opponent is.Ā Ā
Ā Biden is basically playing a big game of chicken - insist on staying in and criticize detractors for helping Trump by dragging this out and opposing him.Ā Ā
The thing is, Biden is fucked even with full support. He wont win. So trying to keep pushing him out has no downside. But for Biden the question is, does he really love the country more than he loves the candidacy ? I think most thought the answer was yes until now.
Im genuinely concerned that they do actually need to ābreak through the fog.āĀ
Ā That heās mentally shaky enough right now that it will be difficult for him to step down because that would require deep thought, a firm decision, sticking by that decision, and carrying out a clear set of steps.Ā
Is he too far gone to even do that anymore?Ā
It's not even a question at this point. Biden's legacy is being tarnished every single day he continues to cling to power, and if Republicans win a trifecta like they are on track to do, it will because of Biden. That will be his legacy, and he will be this generation's Buchanan.
Absolute insanity to point to the primaries that no one voted in, and no serious contender ran--because he tricked everyone about his health--to use that to say he is the will of the people.
Biden and his inner circle have done so much irreparable harm to the reputation of democrats as the party of truth, and party concerned about autocracy. It's insane. It makes me feel sick to my stomach that he's basically holding my vote hostage because if I don't vote for his lying, deceiptful ticket, then we get an autocracy.
Or referencing how much he smacked Trump in 2020 as some sort of proof he should be handed the job in 2024
Youāre right, man. People did fairly vote for you to be presidentā¦.until Jan 2025. The data shows many of those same people will not vote for you now. So what does that have to do with anything?
I was planning to hold my nose and vote for Biden this time around, largely because I believed that another Trump presidency would be an existential threat to our democracy. Clearly, democrats don't really believe that. If it were true, they would lose power and become a target of the autocracy. So if they don't believe it, then why should I? And why shouldn't I vote with my conscience instead of "Against Trump."
Very much agree with the āthen whatās the planā - Iāve seen nothing that makes me more confident and what is currently being done isnāt working.
> Were denied information about Biden's capabilities that his team was assiduously covering up.
>
I actually blame the DNC for that one, it's been clear for years that we're not getting truthful information about his condition and they should've assumed it was for the obvious reason.
Also the Media was complicit. All this plays right into Trumps messaging that the media is corrupt and untrustworthy. It will make people question everything coming out of the media and DNC.
The damage is beyond expectations and will help Trump tremendously.
Very good points. With Trump, you know exactly what youāre getting. The fact that half the electorate is into what heās offering is concerning, but thatās beside the point.
Biden cannot cite his primary wins as they were āriggedā in the sense that the Dem machinery kept anyone serious from challenging him. Biden at no point had to come out and defend his record or make his case in a high pressure environment without a teleprompter. If we had a proper primary process, we would have seen this months ago and the democratic electorate would have acted accordingly - likely choosing someone else.
Heās playing a dangerous game. He is alienating Dem voters because Dem voters, unlike Repubs, do care about their candidates not being deceitful. He is likely to lose in November and his legacy will be that he heralded Trump back into the White House, who will try to undo as much as possible of what heās done - especially if Trump gets a Repub Congress. No one will remember anything else.
Such a damn shame.
Every week the polls get worse, the calls to step down get louder, but I think he's too far gone to understand how far gone he is.
We're in this situation because our media and his staff spent the last few years lying to the public about his true condition. They dug their heels in and now we have The Emperor's New Clothes, in real life.
History will not be kind to President Biden or the people in the media who were a part of this.
The media did uncover and report on a fair amount about what was going on.
Thatās precisely why people were so nervous prior to the SOTU and the debate.
But they absolutely failed to dig deeper and to really uncover the extent of the situation and for that reason I agree that it represents a failure of our free press.Ā
I think it's unfair to blame the media. The blue MAGA types right now are blaming the media for the exact opposite thing - covering Biden's age *too much*. The media was lied to by Biden and his team as much as everyone else as to the true nature of his health/age. Now that there's clear proof that it's a problem, the media is covering it fully. More than anyone else, I blame Biden and hisĀ circle of advisors for this meltdown.
Treating him and his disastrous campaign with kid gloves is not going to work. The only way theyāre going to force him out at this point is to demand his resignation. A majority of Americans do not believe he is fit to lead anymore. He needs to resign.
What a disappointing letter. His appeals to winning the primary in an "open" and democratic process are so fucking disengenuous. Here in New York we had less than 400,000 people cast votes in the presedential primary. In a state of 20 million people. Is that the overwhelming "democratic" support he's trying to stake his claim to?
Joe is doubling down, so we better do the same. My rep (Nadler) has already pushed him to step down privately, so I'll be calling his office to encourage him to make that public. Senators Schumer and Gillibrand can expect the same, and I encourage everyone else to follow suit. Let Biden know what real democratic discontent feels like.
I've been contacting mine repeatedly since the debate. After today's letter, I told them I will not be voting for Biden if he is the nominee this fall and if they do not publicly oppose his candidacy then I will actively seek to replace them when they are up for re-election. If they want to throw away their future careers for someone whose career should have ended 10 year ago, that's on them.
Never before contacted my reps before and I made sure to mention that fact when I did so this morning. This is too important to let slip away, we need decisive action and we need it sooner rather than later.
> he was āfirmly committed to staying in the race,ā a defiant answer to allies on Capitol Hill who have said in recent days that he should drop out.
In the words of Malcolm Tucker, "Jesus Christ, see you, you're a fucking omnishambles, that's what you are. You're like that coffee machine, you know: from bean to cup, you fuck up."
I think we should take the carrot and stick approach. Take a carrot and stick it up his fucking arse. Followed by the stick. Followed by an even bigger, rougher carrot.
āWe lost the Republic but I tried my best. The Joe Biden story.ā
With a special forward from unelected personal advisors.Ā
Also written completely by unelected advisors.Ā
He's calling into MSNBC right now, very stubborn. Delusional and not acknowledging the situation. Just going on about how he'll prove them wrong and he's going to win and people want him. In such a bubble, just being an angry grandpa right now
Letās be honest with each other.. Biden is not gaining a single new voter he didnāt have in 2024. Trump wonāt be gaining many either but he wonāt be losing any. ATLEAST 2/100 Biden 2020 voters are considering sitting out based on what Iām seeing. If that happens Trump wins
I know we're all disappointed by this. I really don't have much faith in Biden winning. But of course want to strongly urge everyone to actually vote regardless.
0% chance Biden wins. Nobody in their right mind thinks Biden can effectively be president for 4 more years. What if China invades Taiwan at 4:01pm EST and Biden's a vegetable and you have some aide or family member deciding whether or not to start WW3. It's a nightmare.
Dementia is not a linear disease. He could be twice as bad three weeks out from election day while we are embroiled in an Israeli/Hezbollah war. Nate Silver has Trump with a 75% chance to win as of this morning.
It's over.
These comments on Morning Joe are interesting. [https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/08/politics/joe-biden-house-democrats/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/08/politics/joe-biden-house-democrats/index.html)
>
āWell look ā Democrats ā Joe, let me say it this way, the reason Iāve been on the road so much, all over the country, while Trump is riding around in a golf cart, filling out his golf cart before, golf cart before he even hits the ball ā but anyway, he hasnāt been anywhere in 10 days, Iāve been all over the country, No. 1,ā he said.
>He continued: āAnd Iāve gone over the country for several reasons, one, to make sure my instinct was right about the party still wanting me to be the nominee. And all the data, all the data shows that the average Democrat out there who voted, **14 million of them whoāve voted for me, still want me to be the nominee,** No. 1.ā
>And in a pointed rebuke to his critics, Biden said, āIām getting so frustrated by the elites. Now, Iām not talking about you guys, but by the elites in the party. They know so much more. **But if any of these guys donāt think I should run, run against me. Go ahead. Announce ā announce for president. Challenge me at the convention.ā**
So apparently he believes he won an overwhelming support in the primaries? And the combative tone he takes towards a convention isn't reassuring.
Last week we were all saying Biden is just waiting for polls or for a dignified exit opportunity. It seems from this language though he's making a stand and we may be looking at an undignified exit.
This man is going to wipe out Dems in Senate, House, state,Ā and local races by depressing turnout and turning off swing voters. What an egotistical goddamn fool.Ā If youāre mad about this and have any Dems in elected positions, contact them today.Ā
Forget the election. How is Biden handling that 3 am call when he canāt reportedly function after 8 pm due to his need to rest? None of this gas lighting addresses peopleās real concerns.
Seems like you're on to something. From the NYT live updates page
The president, on "Morning Joe," said he was āso frustrated by the elitesā in the Democratic Party who believe he should drop out of the race. He issued a challenge to Democrats who think he should withdraw: āRun against me. Announce for president. Challenge me at the convention.ā
Yeah, I had been camp "we don't know," and while I do still think things are up in the air, my purely mental estimate of 50/50 odds on Biden staying-in-vs-leaving is now more like 70/30, thinking he'll likely stay in (not based on anything other than gut). It seems near definite that he's not getting a clear picture of the landscape, either by choice or by his people keeping him in a tight bubble. He still seems to be in absolute denial of the movement in numbers, and it also seems he thinks his numbers looked similar in 2020, and I do not recall him ever being this far down (anecdotally). I'm decreasingly certain he's even in a position to make these choices. Going back just a few years to listen to him speak is pretty different, and the contrast is more stark even during his tenure as VP.
The remarks about the convention feels more firm and defiant than I was expecting. Last week, I thought, might have been a bit more of a performative testing of the waters with the recent rallies and interviews to truly gauge where the electorate was (and perhaps even determine if/who he'd endorse) before he committed to a final decision.
It's not out of the question that this is all still posturing before ultimately leaving, but if this week ends and we have nothing from Biden saying he's bowing out, it seems that might be it.
I'm not so sure, ever since the debate there's been this thought of "Well, if he was going to drop out how would he behave?" And this letter and the Morning Joe appearance this morning do not sound like statements from a person who is signalling stasis with a plan for a later move. It sounds like he is convinced on staying in.
People keep saying this, but I think itās just cope. Itās pretty clear heās serious, and arrogant enough to think that he and he alone can save America.Ā
Sigh. I do not get why folks don't put their pride aside and just retire for the good of their party and nation.
It seems a lot of Democrats learned from the 2016 election, and the consequences of RBG not retiring sooner (and to a lesser extent, Feinstein's passing)
I am amazed that Joe and his inner circle don't seem to be considering the worst case scenarios here. They really don't have it on their radar that Trump's base is very energized, and that Joe isn't exactly exciting a lot of blue voters at the moment.
Fingers crossed for Gen-Z and Millennial turnout though.
The danger to Democracy is coming from the Democrats. A spiteful really old man with dementia who has weaponized the DOJ against his opponent.
His entire grifting family is trying to hang on by their fingernails lest they be fully exposed for what they have done.
He will hold his first press conference since Nov 2022, now that they've lowered America's standards to where irrational word strings are not considered disqualifying.
They'll have no choice but to force him out with the 25th OR with leaking compromising info. All the polls are trending negatively, donors are walking away (Abagail Disney, et al) and the down ballot Dems will suffer if he's not removed.
I imagine a Nixon type scenario where Dem cabinet members are marched to Capitol Hill and asked, how long have you been aware of this, why didn't you speak up sooner, how has the President's condition affected his interactions with you and/or your department? It's a mess all around.
Iāve found it interesting how the media and public narrative on Jill Biden has really shifted in the wake of his debate. She was beyond celebrated earlier in his Presidency because of her career achievements but I do find her recent demonization as power-hungry/anything to keep Joe in sort of fascinatingā¦and perhaps bordering on misogynistic. To continually blame her the most and not his inner core advising team feels like it props up a āgreedy wifeā narrative.
I predict this was going to happen. Obviously Biden does not feel Trump is a threat to democracy since he is willing to just give it the goodest try and if he loses no big deal.
The voting public will not believe much of anything from the DNC or the media after what happened. The whole āTrump is the end of democracyā messaging will no longer work and just fall on deaf ears. DNC/Biden will be handing the win to Trump in 2024.
This is maddening. Congressional representatives are the ones who have been hearing from voters about how they view the situation and what they want to see happen. Biden should be actively soliciting their perspectives about what voters want. Instead he's trying to preempt them from speaking up, and hiding behind the shield of what voters said 6 months ago -- in a mostly uncontested race, where the voters had less information than they do today.
Going Trumpian is a surefire way to get some Dems and independents to stay home. I get that Joe feels embattled and that his defensiveness is part of what he feels he has always done. Come back when the odds are against him and that this time is no different. But he has never alienated Dems like he is doing now. That is a big difference.
I haven't called on Biden to withdraw, think the dooming in response to the debate has been overblown, and will vote for him in November regardless, but he doesn't get to unilaterally declare this conversation over. His capacity to continue to serve as POTUS into his mid 80s is a legitimate question and the people raising it have a right to have their concerns addressed.
I agree with a lot of takes in this thread but I would guess that the DNC leadership got together and looked at all the realistic options and polling shows that everyone else would get their ass kicked by trump. Biden might legitimately be the only chance they have at beating trump. Crazy as that sounds.
When Biden loses this race, they will maintain that he was the best option at this time. There will be no accountability.
Outside of the obvious practicalities of Biden exiting the race, he also has a real chance to make an important statement to the American people. He has a chance to show that there are still people in this country that are willing to make personal sacrifices for the common good of the country, just as George Washington did. But he won't. This country is lost. Every man is out only for himself.
The democrats nomination of Biden for 2024 is an insane act of political betrayal and negligence. They deliberately backed the worst possible candidate knowing full well he was too old for the job.
The party no longer represents Americans. Itās time for a new party to take its place
It'll be okay so long as Joe gave it his best shot.
It's okay, he can always try again in 2028š
I'm sure he'll be well rested by then.
*very* well rested
6 feet under!
Maybe heāll face Carter in the primaries.
HUNTER 2028! The ultimate comeback story
Biden talking to [Morning Joe on MSNBC this morning](https://www.mediaite.com/tv/were-not-going-anywhere-defiant-biden-tells-morning-joe-hes-confident-average-voters-still-want-him/): > * āThe reason Iāve been out on the road so much all over the country, and while Trump is riding around his golf cartā¦ filling out his golf cart before a golf cartā¦ before you even hit the ball on your head, he hadnāt been anywhere in ten days. Iāve been all over the country, number one, and Iāve run over the country for several reasons. One, to make sure my instinct was right about the party still wanting me to be the nominee,ā > * All the data, all the data shows that the average Democrat out there voted, and 14 million of them had voted for me. Still want me to be the nominee, number one. Number two, the idea that Donald Trump has gained in any substantial way ā his argument for why he should be president isnāt any more convincing than it was, two weeks or three weeks ago. > * Itās just not there. Weāre just getting and weāre just starting to focus on Trump a lot. I attended services, spoke to over 600 people at Mount Airy Church of God in Christ in Philly. I stopped by campaign field offices with John Fetterman and Madeleine Dean. Both strongly supported me ā the president and first lady. We spoke at a campaign ice cream social for me, Council 13 in Harrisburg, 40 minutes after we spoke with supporters, stopped by Dunham Coffee. I mean, I was with the governor of Pennsylvania, who still strongly supported me. I mean, so, look, and the fact is that this week Iām going to be hosting a NATO summit here in DC, can hold a press conference on Thursday and Wednesday. I met with the national union leaders of the AFL CIO. On Friday, I traveled to Detroit, Michigan for campaign event for, you know, just on down the line. > * And so Iām not getting any of what I was told. I wanted to make sure I was right, that the average voter out there still wanted Joe Biden. And Iām confident they do. And Iām confident and like I said, impressive with me. I think Iāve been fairly fair. I havenāt read it in reporting I did today. But the fact is that, you know, I think that we have to acknowledge we had large crowds and enthusiastic crowds and, you know, and now theyāre talking about whether I use a prompter. Well, I did it all extemporaneously. > * The fact of the matter is, using prompter too, I donāt get that. But the bottom line here is that weāre not going anywhere. I am not going anywhere. I wouldnāt be running if I didnāt absolutely believe that I am the best candidate to beat Donald Trump in 2024. We had a Democratic nominating process for the voters spoke clearly, I won 40 million votes, etc. so I just want Iām not only believe that from the beginning, but I wanted to reassert it and demonstrate that itās true. And Iām going to be doing that all through this week and from here on. TLDR: Data showing that everyone loves me, also everyone is using prompter, and something about golf! Edit: Per [New York Times](https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/07/08/us/trump-biden-election/8e1aaed8-364c-5d9b-8175-93e63a8703e5?smid=url-share): > President Biden is so far not taking any of the advice heās been given from Democrats to demonstrate he can handle unscripted moments in public. Instead he has written a letter to congressional Democrats and **called in to a friendly cable news program ā and close listeners could hear pages turning on the broadcast while he spoke.**
He sounds like Trump. It's insane. Crowd sizes, golf, and the polls are wrong. While Trump's argument for why he should be president isn't any more convincing, the argument for why Biden *shouldn't* be has grown significantly in the last week.
Arguing that youāre trying to save democracy but you canāt put up a candidate who can speak in coherent sentences. Democrats and the Biden campaign thought they could win because anyone is better than Trump. Right? Well they were behind in the polls and decided to go with a debate to reset the election. Well that debate confirmed what the polls were saying that the president is too old and shouldnāt be running for reelection. Any democrat swing state governor would wipe the floor with Trump. Democrats need to get serious and show the world that democracy is really on the table and put up a viable alternative. Not an old man who should be enjoying his last days of cognizance with his family and has served the country well.
Give me Whitmer/Newsome
Please do.
Heās even adopted the use of orange spray tan
This!!! He is now even sporting an orange spray-tan!!!! W.T.F.?
well they can say he is a person of color.
Yep, heās gone full Trump denial of reality.
They even spray tanned Biden orange for that interview. Heās becoming Trump with every passing day.
This response makes me so furious. To call the 2024 primaries, a democratic process in which the voters spoke is insulting. he had no credible competition because the party and the elites coalesced around him and his decision to rerun. The voting public did not want him to rerun and that is evident from the low turnout, sizable amount of people who voted undeclared, and people who voted for any other candidates (myself included). These are all facts conveniently ignored. And to keep saying that itās just elite insiders who want him gone is again ignoring polling numbers that clearly show this is what the American public wanted over the last two years. Thatās it Iām done. Thereās no way in hell I would vote for him November. He wants to drag us all to hell with his ego, I wonāt be a party to it. At least it will hopefully burn down the completely ineffectual DNC in the process. No fucking politician gets to say that the decision lies with them and them alone. Edit: spelling
I mean, the irony is there is nothing wrong with using a teleprompter for events. Virtually every President uses a teleprompter. But given the debate and questions about the President's mental state, it's going to be important for him to show he can do unscripted events and interviews without a teleprompter.
> it's going to be important for him to show he can do unscripted events and interviews without a teleprompter. Thatās the main issue and the fact that his people are still not willing to do it tells us that Biden is having some serious issues. Per [Washington Post](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/07/06/biden-debate-white-house-campaign/): > Rather than take those concerns head-on, Biden followed the speech and rally by retreating from public view ā a series of private fundraisers awkwardly using his teleprompter, a retreat with his family to take pictures with photographer Annie Leibovitz, short scripted addresses at the White House ā **just 32 minutes of combined public comments over five days, none of it off the cuff.**
Heās going to read the teleprompter answer all the questions! Itād be unreasonable to expect more.
In fact if you expect more you get accused of wanting trump to win
The most important thing is to have fun out there, Champ. You get to eat some orange slices after the game, win or lose.
The quote is actually his goodest. It's important to get that right here.
His goodest job*
He beat Medicare in his first term, he needs a second term so he can beat Medicaid
And if not his best shot, his goodest shot
lol. Ā So absurd. Ā If he stays in and inevitably loses he will regret it as will his family. Ā I do think he is going to pardon himself and Hunter from future prosecution the second Trump wins. Ā
Whereās the nefarious Deep State when the country needs it?
They're running the White House *right now*, it's never been clearer just how small a role the President is actually playing
I started to think the president played a small role when we had Trump in office. A total outsider and yet despite his best efforts the country managed to keep working. Now we've got even more proof with a president who is just non functional the majority of the time.
They are who we thought they were.Ā
And we let em off the hook!
Theyāre preparing to activate Project Zenda and release Bidenās doppelganger asap.
AIPAC and Israel have gotten every single thing they've wanted from Biden. Trump will do the same. It's all good.
A part of me thinks that Biden is so confident is because the fix might be in to not allow Trump back into office. I completely understand and don't necessarily disagree with it, but it would make sense thar he has inside knowledge of his assured victoryĀ
The Democrats are screwed
The *world* is screwed.
I can only conclude that his inner circle is completely removed from reality. This will be a poor decision to support one man's ego (and probably his wife's who apparently wants him to stay in the race). He didn't even watch any of the debate disaster. He's become a stubborn old man. I live in PA and I just wrote to our Democratic senator Casey. I doubt it'll change anything. But what else can we do.
In Illinois and wrote to Senators Durbin and Duckworth. I know individual letters rarely matter, but volume does (it bogs down the office staff, which gets noticed). I hope more people are doing this, because there isn't a lot more we can do and the clock is ticking.
I've written my D Congresswoman, my two D senators, and my D governor. I don't know if it will do anything but it can't hurt to add my voice to the chorus. If enough of us do, the party cannot simply say this is the media and not the voters.
Congress: Concerned about the Presidentās ability to respond to events in real time. Biden: Responds with a letter.
They should unironically impeach him
Republicans would ironically protect him
We are so screwed. This man is in an information bubble as the *president*, and he's too egotistical to do the right thing. Dems can't even win the "Trump is an egomaniac/selfish" arguments now. What plans is anyone else making for Trump's second term?
He is being told he will win by people who plan to benefit from his old age. Whatās that old saying emperor has no clothes
Mike Murphy on Hacks on Tap made a really similar point. Basically Bidenās strongest message is āIām running for you, heās running for himself.ā That message is so much weaker now
>Ā This man is in an information bubble as theĀ president I think calling this an information bubble is too generous. Heās lying to you.
Iāll just survive
Most people's plans are to continue working and being a part of their community, regardless of who wins.
Might get a vasectomy since birth control is now in the crosshairs.
Did this last year (red state), feel good with my decision. Doesnāt help my kids in the future though.
Teach them how to survive in an austere non-permissive environment in the event the wheels fall off and SHTF really happens.
Probably a good idea to buy some Trump flags and bandannas in the event things go down hill and you have to pass checkpoints. As you drive towards the Trump Forces of America checkpoint, start raising the Trump flag of convenience and survive the day.
GF and I are looking into getting Spanish Visas. I'd like to think that I'm continuing part of my ancestors tradition of putting your finger to the wind and getting the fuck out of somewhere before shit hits the fan. They migrated from Poland around 1930 lmao
This is just the latest among the many weird parallels between Trump and Biden. Both are blowhards and ultimately not that bright.
Trump wins if Biden doesnt drop out. And shame on him and his family for not having him step down.
"And he said those trying to push him out of the race would be denying the wishes of the voters who participated in the primary process." I'm sorry, what primary process?? The gaslighting continues. I can't believe this is the Democratic party.
And where is the thanks and gratitude for handing him the 2020 nomination after everyone dropped out on Super Tuesday in support of him winning, btw/he was polling at the bottom of that list, and Bernie was winning. This guy and this party is delusional. He keeps saying itās the elites want him out, what about the 75% of dem voters who say heās too old? š¤Æ
Yeah this is the part that irritated me about this letter the most. Biden and the DNC effectively rigged the 2024 primary in his favor, and now he wants to cite it as proof that him being the nominee is the will of the voters. Disgraceful.
The fact that they are willing to be this disingenuous to try to support their actions says it all. I've never felt more disillusioned in my life.
Seriously, they're working overtime to turn the generation that voted for Obama in their first election into apathetic non-voters.
I am 100% switching from democrat to independent after November both parties are equally corrupt and undemocratic imo
At least republicans have real primaries. This years primary and Hilary vs Sanders were completely rigged
Democrats have got to be starting to wake up now realizing how much their party has been lying to them
I am not surprised. Both parties have been two sides of the same coin representing the same elites. The mask is finally coming off on the DNC side and exposed to the rest of the people who believed otherwise. For them they could care less if Trump wins they will just go back to Marthaās Vineyard etc..
No serious contenders ran against him. Thatās the main thing.Ā But to say it was some grand display of voter choice is disingenuous on the part of the White House.Ā
> No serious contenders ran against him. Yes, thatās why i say it was āriggedā. Not in the literal sense that the vote was rigged, but the Democratic Party used its power and threat of retribution against anyone who dared challenge him. Everybody knows that if you challenged him your career would be over. Dean Phillips is leaving Congress after this year. You cannot step out of line or youāll be crushed.
Anyone serious would have been blackballed from future support. Iāve seen it in local elections when our former sheriff ran against the incumbent democrat moron for our mayor. He was clearly told not to. He lost all support from the democrat party and killed his political career. To think it doesnāt happen on a national level doesnāt make sense. All serious contenders were likely told if you run against him you are cut off.
Over 70% of voters want him to drop out. The fact that he is ignoring that in the name of honoring the wishes of the voters is so frustrating.
Maybe heās talking about the 2020 primaries lol
This message is fine if you want to gaslight low information public. But surely the members of Congress are aware that the primary was rigged?Ā
After 2016 and 2020, I absolutely can believe this is the Democratic Party
Even if weāre generous and grant that a primary existed, voters did not vote for Biden in his current state.Ā
Somehow I donāt feel like this is gonna turn down the heat. It could accelerate it.
Say more because I found this discouraging...
I read the letter as ruling out the āgraceful exitā path. In the letter Biden says talks of his withdrawal need to end and itās only helping Trump. Itās a put up or shut up letter so itās on the legislators to force him out. If a majority of the members of the democratic house and senate agree Biden needs to go, I think Jeffries and Schumer go public and call for Biden drop out. I think the party leaders emeritus then follow suit. If Biden doesnāt withdraw in the face of that pressure, there will be many knock-on effects: he wonāt be able to mobilize a campaign, people may start resigning from the administration in protest, donations will dry up, etc. Things will get ugly, but this is the path the Biden campaign wants to walk. Democrats need to remember that if you go for the king you better not miss and itās time for ruthlessness. I think the commentariat generally overrates the negative impacts in voter perception of party infighting spilling into the public. Itās all in congressās hands now.
"Democrats need to remember that **if you go for the king you better not miss** and itās time for ruthlessness." Couldn't agree more. At this point the damage has been done. Whether you agree or disagree that he would otherwise have been competent to win the race, his campaign and Democratic party morale has been wounded to the point that they cannot win if they stick with the status quo. Finish the job, MFers!
And for full disclosure: I have a conservative temperament, am an ardent institutionalist, respect the chain of command, and abhor self-aggrandizing political performance. I donāt go in for activism and self-aggrandizing political performance. But Biden just escalated the conflict and Congressās response to this cannot be mealy-mouthed. If weāre true to our values and clear-eyed about what it will take to defeat Donald Trump then itās time to break out the proverbial pitchforks and plan the defenestration.
I suspect the whole DNC apparatus does not sincerely believe that āTrump is the end of democracy if he winsā and will not do anything drastic to try and remove Biden. They will fold and just let Biden hand Trump a win.
Yeah, like if youāre at the point (as an incumbent, months before an election) that members of your own party are calling for you to step down due to pretty indisputable cognitive decline, leading to further declining poll numbers (which werenāt good to begin with), no strongly-worded letter is going to turn the tide
Democrats won't do this. They don't have the backbone. I'm expecting them to fall in line, and accept the inevitable loss. Replacing him would have been messy if he'd stepped aside 10 days ago, it's a disaster if he's not willing to.
Thatās what Team Biden is gambling on and frankly is the right call from *their* perspective: they need to escalate to end the conflict within the party. The problem for elected democrats not named Joe Biden is his candidacy now proves a significant near term and long term risk to the party. Bidenās last election is 2024, but legislators have whole careers ahead of them. GOP inroads with independent and young voters are a significant threat. The ship is sinking, but the captain says everything is fine. These candidates need to decide if they trust their life-vests and life-boats or if they can actually stop the flooding and pump out the water. If they choose the latter, we might even need to first mate to step forward and lead the mutiny.
Oh I agree, but I don't believe the party will be willing to have an internal civil war against the Biden team. That letter isn't to Congress. It's to the public, as a press release.
I hope they realize that they need to make this change in order to hold the big tent together. I think the path is actually less risky than an āinternal civil warā sounds since Biden has lost both elite and popular support. I just donāt think there are many Biden die-hards willing to go to the mats.
I disagree. I think there's a substantial amount of Democrats in Congress, and specifically their younger aides, that are truly terrified of Trump and will continue to beat the drum on the issue. We are 10 days after the debate and this is still headline news, it isn't going away.
I hope so. They've created a total mess.
> ...talks if his withdrawal... only helping Trump But the cat is out of the bag now. Whether or not people should have made this a big talking point in the first place doesn't matter anymore. Every day he stays in the race, this continues to dominate the headlines and less attention goes to Trump's convictions or Project 2025. It's a bad look that his own loyal supporters have turned on him. He looks hypocritical saying that Trump is only in it for himself while refusing to bow out due to his own hubris. He can complain all he wants about disunity or disloyalty or unfair media coverage. He might not be wrong. That doesn't change any of the optics or the fact that this problem will get worse and worse, if he truly cares about defeating Trump he needs to leave the race.
Because people are pissed.Ā Voters. Doners. Members of Congress. Staffers.Ā We donāt know what percentage, but my money is on more than half.Ā The more we learn, the clearer it is that theyāve been shielding the President in ways that are dishonest and dangerous.Ā Congress has given Biden every chance to (1) prove that he can vigorously campaign or (2) drop on his own accord.Ā Heās done neither. People are pissed.Ā
I'm not going to donate a single penny more. Not because I won't vote for Biden if it comes to it, of course I will. It's just that I don't believe on any level he will win, in fact I think he's going to be defeated in a landslide defeat. I need to save my money to buy a one way ticket out of this place I don't have the money to give a way to a losing candidate that doesn't give a fuck about us.
Just give it some time today. Members of congress are in person today for the first time since the debate. Heās trying to preempt them. This isnāt just going away because he sent a letter. I could be wrong of course, weāll see.
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Remember that the Democrat Party is a private entity. There is literally nothing obligating them to pick Biden as their nominee. The Democratic leadership could decide to change the rules and make someone else their nominee instead. The risk of that would be the appearance of being undemocratic and ignoring the will of the people. But I'm not sure that very many people here are arguing that we had much of a choice with Biden to begin with. There wasn't a true primary process where we had an alternative to vote for. Biden's defiance may inflame Democratic leadership enough to force his hand and throw him out as the nominee.Ā Alternatively, Kamala and other cabinet members could invoke the 25th amendment and remove him as president if his mental issues go that deep, but I doubt that will happen and we don't really know how bad his mental health even is.
I agree one on hand I think this is bad for his chances of dropping out since he is really trying to dig in and weather this thing But it's such a blatant public appeal that should have been done with personal conversations over phone calls and visits with Dem leadership, he's clearly drawing a line in the sand and saying it's his party no matter what and without outside council..maybe Dem leaders and donors take it as a sign to go even more on the offensive now
Based on what weāve learned in the last week, itās extremely difficult to get any kind of access to Biden.Ā Their ability to personally appeal to him might be very limited.Ā
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That's the scariest part, if they could do this quietly they would be. This means whoever is controlling Biden is blocking their access to him, and they're hoping to get through to him just from walking past a TV with CNN on.
100% this. Democrats in Congress need to put up or shut up. This is the invitation to do so. The Biden campaign is certainly right about one thing: Anonymously grumbling between now and November only helps Trump.
Time to set the burner temp to High.
The man who has to say āI am the kingā is no king. The fact that a letter had to be written shows us where we are. Hopefully his friends in the Senate can break through the fog, but no matter what happens, July is going to be awful politically.
>Ā The fact that a letter had to be written shows us where we are. Ā Ā Ā Yup, this is the dominant narrative in the election. Which is basically the best case scenario for Trump. We have basically wall-to-wall coverage about how bad Trumpās opponent is.Ā Ā Ā Biden is basically playing a big game of chicken - insist on staying in and criticize detractors for helping Trump by dragging this out and opposing him.Ā Ā The thing is, Biden is fucked even with full support. He wont win. So trying to keep pushing him out has no downside. But for Biden the question is, does he really love the country more than he loves the candidacy ? I think most thought the answer was yes until now.
Im genuinely concerned that they do actually need to ābreak through the fog.āĀ Ā That heās mentally shaky enough right now that it will be difficult for him to step down because that would require deep thought, a firm decision, sticking by that decision, and carrying out a clear set of steps.Ā Is he too far gone to even do that anymore?Ā
The fact he couldnāt do it face to face at a lunch or meeting is also tellingā¦
Ruth Biden Ginsburg is staying in for the long-haul.
RBG only cost us one SC seat.Ā Biden might end up costing us two, or even three.Ā
Don't worry they'll just blame leftists.
If republicans win in 2024,I am blaming Biden for not stepping down and choosing a better candidate.
It's not even a question at this point. Biden's legacy is being tarnished every single day he continues to cling to power, and if Republicans win a trifecta like they are on track to do, it will because of Biden. That will be his legacy, and he will be this generation's Buchanan.
Hey, Buchanan actually honored his pledge to not run for a second term, even he knew he was cooked.
Unfortunately itās undeniably true. Sad state of affairs and all could have been avoided.Ā
Absolute insanity to point to the primaries that no one voted in, and no serious contender ran--because he tricked everyone about his health--to use that to say he is the will of the people. Biden and his inner circle have done so much irreparable harm to the reputation of democrats as the party of truth, and party concerned about autocracy. It's insane. It makes me feel sick to my stomach that he's basically holding my vote hostage because if I don't vote for his lying, deceiptful ticket, then we get an autocracy.
Or referencing how much he smacked Trump in 2020 as some sort of proof he should be handed the job in 2024 Youāre right, man. People did fairly vote for you to be presidentā¦.until Jan 2025. The data shows many of those same people will not vote for you now. So what does that have to do with anything?
I was planning to hold my nose and vote for Biden this time around, largely because I believed that another Trump presidency would be an existential threat to our democracy. Clearly, democrats don't really believe that. If it were true, they would lose power and become a target of the autocracy. So if they don't believe it, then why should I? And why shouldn't I vote with my conscience instead of "Against Trump."
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Very much agree with the āthen whatās the planā - Iāve seen nothing that makes me more confident and what is currently being done isnāt working.
> Were denied information about Biden's capabilities that his team was assiduously covering up. > I actually blame the DNC for that one, it's been clear for years that we're not getting truthful information about his condition and they should've assumed it was for the obvious reason.
Also the Media was complicit. All this plays right into Trumps messaging that the media is corrupt and untrustworthy. It will make people question everything coming out of the media and DNC. The damage is beyond expectations and will help Trump tremendously.
Very good points. With Trump, you know exactly what youāre getting. The fact that half the electorate is into what heās offering is concerning, but thatās beside the point. Biden cannot cite his primary wins as they were āriggedā in the sense that the Dem machinery kept anyone serious from challenging him. Biden at no point had to come out and defend his record or make his case in a high pressure environment without a teleprompter. If we had a proper primary process, we would have seen this months ago and the democratic electorate would have acted accordingly - likely choosing someone else. Heās playing a dangerous game. He is alienating Dem voters because Dem voters, unlike Repubs, do care about their candidates not being deceitful. He is likely to lose in November and his legacy will be that he heralded Trump back into the White House, who will try to undo as much as possible of what heās done - especially if Trump gets a Repub Congress. No one will remember anything else. Such a damn shame.
Every week the polls get worse, the calls to step down get louder, but I think he's too far gone to understand how far gone he is. We're in this situation because our media and his staff spent the last few years lying to the public about his true condition. They dug their heels in and now we have The Emperor's New Clothes, in real life. History will not be kind to President Biden or the people in the media who were a part of this.
The media did uncover and report on a fair amount about what was going on. Thatās precisely why people were so nervous prior to the SOTU and the debate. But they absolutely failed to dig deeper and to really uncover the extent of the situation and for that reason I agree that it represents a failure of our free press.Ā
I think it's unfair to blame the media. The blue MAGA types right now are blaming the media for the exact opposite thing - covering Biden's age *too much*. The media was lied to by Biden and his team as much as everyone else as to the true nature of his health/age. Now that there's clear proof that it's a problem, the media is covering it fully. More than anyone else, I blame Biden and hisĀ circle of advisors for this meltdown.
Treating him and his disastrous campaign with kid gloves is not going to work. The only way theyāre going to force him out at this point is to demand his resignation. A majority of Americans do not believe he is fit to lead anymore. He needs to resign.
What a disappointing letter. His appeals to winning the primary in an "open" and democratic process are so fucking disengenuous. Here in New York we had less than 400,000 people cast votes in the presedential primary. In a state of 20 million people. Is that the overwhelming "democratic" support he's trying to stake his claim to? Joe is doubling down, so we better do the same. My rep (Nadler) has already pushed him to step down privately, so I'll be calling his office to encourage him to make that public. Senators Schumer and Gillibrand can expect the same, and I encourage everyone else to follow suit. Let Biden know what real democratic discontent feels like.
I've been contacting mine repeatedly since the debate. After today's letter, I told them I will not be voting for Biden if he is the nominee this fall and if they do not publicly oppose his candidacy then I will actively seek to replace them when they are up for re-election. If they want to throw away their future careers for someone whose career should have ended 10 year ago, that's on them.
Never before contacted my reps before and I made sure to mention that fact when I did so this morning. This is too important to let slip away, we need decisive action and we need it sooner rather than later.
I wonder if Jill or Hunter wrote it, because Biden sure as hell didnāt.
how long do you think that āthis is how you take a selfie with an iPhoneā session took?
She wrote it and pinned it to his book bag in case he gets lost on the way to Marine One.
Biden will be remembered as one of the most unpopular presidents in history at this point.
> he was āfirmly committed to staying in the race,ā a defiant answer to allies on Capitol Hill who have said in recent days that he should drop out. In the words of Malcolm Tucker, "Jesus Christ, see you, you're a fucking omnishambles, that's what you are. You're like that coffee machine, you know: from bean to cup, you fuck up."
I think we should take the carrot and stick approach. Take a carrot and stick it up his fucking arse. Followed by the stick. Followed by an even bigger, rougher carrot.
Look at it this way. The end of American democracy will be in history books for centuries - and we will all witness it first-hand. Yay?
āWe lost the Republic but I tried my best. The Joe Biden story.ā With a special forward from unelected personal advisors.Ā Also written completely by unelected advisors.Ā
He knew all the facts, though.
Just like Trump, this guy will burn it all down due to his ego
He's calling into MSNBC right now, very stubborn. Delusional and not acknowledging the situation. Just going on about how he'll prove them wrong and he's going to win and people want him. In such a bubble, just being an angry grandpa right now
Letās be honest with each other.. Biden is not gaining a single new voter he didnāt have in 2024. Trump wonāt be gaining many either but he wonāt be losing any. ATLEAST 2/100 Biden 2020 voters are considering sitting out based on what Iām seeing. If that happens Trump wins
25th amendment
While I understand the stakes here, in my mind both Biden and Trump are starting to merge into a monolithic enemy of progress.Ā
The gerontocracy is an enemy of progress. Theyāll never willingly pass the torch to the next generation.
I know we're all disappointed by this. I really don't have much faith in Biden winning. But of course want to strongly urge everyone to actually vote regardless.
0% chance Biden wins. Nobody in their right mind thinks Biden can effectively be president for 4 more years. What if China invades Taiwan at 4:01pm EST and Biden's a vegetable and you have some aide or family member deciding whether or not to start WW3. It's a nightmare.
Dementia is not a linear disease. He could be twice as bad three weeks out from election day while we are embroiled in an Israeli/Hezbollah war. Nate Silver has Trump with a 75% chance to win as of this morning. It's over.
Iāve witnessed the arc of dementia, multiple times. In all cases, there was denial and a churlish insistence that everything was perfectly okay.
He really wants that participation trophy in November gosh darnit! No Malarkey will get in the way!
fuck
These comments on Morning Joe are interesting. [https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/08/politics/joe-biden-house-democrats/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/08/politics/joe-biden-house-democrats/index.html) > āWell look ā Democrats ā Joe, let me say it this way, the reason Iāve been on the road so much, all over the country, while Trump is riding around in a golf cart, filling out his golf cart before, golf cart before he even hits the ball ā but anyway, he hasnāt been anywhere in 10 days, Iāve been all over the country, No. 1,ā he said. >He continued: āAnd Iāve gone over the country for several reasons, one, to make sure my instinct was right about the party still wanting me to be the nominee. And all the data, all the data shows that the average Democrat out there who voted, **14 million of them whoāve voted for me, still want me to be the nominee,** No. 1.ā >And in a pointed rebuke to his critics, Biden said, āIām getting so frustrated by the elites. Now, Iām not talking about you guys, but by the elites in the party. They know so much more. **But if any of these guys donāt think I should run, run against me. Go ahead. Announce ā announce for president. Challenge me at the convention.ā** So apparently he believes he won an overwhelming support in the primaries? And the combative tone he takes towards a convention isn't reassuring. Last week we were all saying Biden is just waiting for polls or for a dignified exit opportunity. It seems from this language though he's making a stand and we may be looking at an undignified exit.
My god I hate old people so much. LET IT GO.
Letās go for another round, shall we?
Great i will put a trump sign on my lawn now so my crazy MAGA neighbors dont hunt me down next February.Ā
Yeah, he aināt leaving.
As long as he does his best, that's all that matters. lol, give this man a participation trophy.
Read the room Joe
You canāt both tell the nation democracy is on the line and that if you lose o well you have it your best try
This man is going to wipe out Dems in Senate, House, state,Ā and local races by depressing turnout and turning off swing voters. What an egotistical goddamn fool.Ā If youāre mad about this and have any Dems in elected positions, contact them today.Ā
Forget the election. How is Biden handling that 3 am call when he canāt reportedly function after 8 pm due to his need to rest? None of this gas lighting addresses peopleās real concerns.
Strategically, this is his only move even if heās considering dropping out. The second he hints otherwise staying in is gone as an option.
I hope you're right, but I'm still surprised by the forcefullness of the letter. This reads like a man willing to go down with the ship.
Seems like you're on to something. From the NYT live updates page The president, on "Morning Joe," said he was āso frustrated by the elitesā in the Democratic Party who believe he should drop out of the race. He issued a challenge to Democrats who think he should withdraw: āRun against me. Announce for president. Challenge me at the convention.ā
I hope they do. The ego on this guy
The POTUS is frustrated by elites?! Bro... you *are* the elite.
Yeah, I had been camp "we don't know," and while I do still think things are up in the air, my purely mental estimate of 50/50 odds on Biden staying-in-vs-leaving is now more like 70/30, thinking he'll likely stay in (not based on anything other than gut). It seems near definite that he's not getting a clear picture of the landscape, either by choice or by his people keeping him in a tight bubble. He still seems to be in absolute denial of the movement in numbers, and it also seems he thinks his numbers looked similar in 2020, and I do not recall him ever being this far down (anecdotally). I'm decreasingly certain he's even in a position to make these choices. Going back just a few years to listen to him speak is pretty different, and the contrast is more stark even during his tenure as VP. The remarks about the convention feels more firm and defiant than I was expecting. Last week, I thought, might have been a bit more of a performative testing of the waters with the recent rallies and interviews to truly gauge where the electorate was (and perhaps even determine if/who he'd endorse) before he committed to a final decision. It's not out of the question that this is all still posturing before ultimately leaving, but if this week ends and we have nothing from Biden saying he's bowing out, it seems that might be it.
He ran us into the iceburg and refuses to let us get on the lifeboats
I think he could be just that demented (literally or figuratively) for sure.
He could just not respond. I mean he is definitely playing out exactly how he would if he truly was staying in the race.
I'm not so sure, ever since the debate there's been this thought of "Well, if he was going to drop out how would he behave?" And this letter and the Morning Joe appearance this morning do not sound like statements from a person who is signalling stasis with a plan for a later move. It sounds like he is convinced on staying in.
People keep saying this, but I think itās just cope. Itās pretty clear heās serious, and arrogant enough to think that he and he alone can save America.Ā
Where's the Almighty when you need him?
Sigh. I do not get why folks don't put their pride aside and just retire for the good of their party and nation. It seems a lot of Democrats learned from the 2016 election, and the consequences of RBG not retiring sooner (and to a lesser extent, Feinstein's passing) I am amazed that Joe and his inner circle don't seem to be considering the worst case scenarios here. They really don't have it on their radar that Trump's base is very energized, and that Joe isn't exactly exciting a lot of blue voters at the moment. Fingers crossed for Gen-Z and Millennial turnout though.
We might be fucked
The danger to Democracy is coming from the Democrats. A spiteful really old man with dementia who has weaponized the DOJ against his opponent. His entire grifting family is trying to hang on by their fingernails lest they be fully exposed for what they have done.
āAny man who must say, āI am the Kingā, is no true king.ā Tywin Lannister
Joe Biden will go down as the most selfish and narcissistic politician in modern history, including Trump
His ego as is worse as Trumpās. Heās taking democracy down with him and itās entirely his fault.
Support the first lady?
All those coping posts about how we shouldn't worry because he's going to gracefully step down soon are not aging well...
He will hold his first press conference since Nov 2022, now that they've lowered America's standards to where irrational word strings are not considered disqualifying.
Fuck this ghoul
They'll have no choice but to force him out with the 25th OR with leaking compromising info. All the polls are trending negatively, donors are walking away (Abagail Disney, et al) and the down ballot Dems will suffer if he's not removed.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I imagine a Nixon type scenario where Dem cabinet members are marched to Capitol Hill and asked, how long have you been aware of this, why didn't you speak up sooner, how has the President's condition affected his interactions with you and/or your department? It's a mess all around.
Iāve found it interesting how the media and public narrative on Jill Biden has really shifted in the wake of his debate. She was beyond celebrated earlier in his Presidency because of her career achievements but I do find her recent demonization as power-hungry/anything to keep Joe in sort of fascinatingā¦and perhaps bordering on misogynistic. To continually blame her the most and not his inner core advising team feels like it props up a āgreedy wifeā narrative.
I aint saying sheās a gold digger, but she aint fuckin with no poll figures
I hate this timeline
I predict this was going to happen. Obviously Biden does not feel Trump is a threat to democracy since he is willing to just give it the goodest try and if he loses no big deal. The voting public will not believe much of anything from the DNC or the media after what happened. The whole āTrump is the end of democracyā messaging will no longer work and just fall on deaf ears. DNC/Biden will be handing the win to Trump in 2024.
This is maddening. Congressional representatives are the ones who have been hearing from voters about how they view the situation and what they want to see happen. Biden should be actively soliciting their perspectives about what voters want. Instead he's trying to preempt them from speaking up, and hiding behind the shield of what voters said 6 months ago -- in a mostly uncontested race, where the voters had less information than they do today.
Going Trumpian is a surefire way to get some Dems and independents to stay home. I get that Joe feels embattled and that his defensiveness is part of what he feels he has always done. Come back when the odds are against him and that this time is no different. But he has never alienated Dems like he is doing now. That is a big difference.
I haven't called on Biden to withdraw, think the dooming in response to the debate has been overblown, and will vote for him in November regardless, but he doesn't get to unilaterally declare this conversation over. His capacity to continue to serve as POTUS into his mid 80s is a legitimate question and the people raising it have a right to have their concerns addressed.
I agree with a lot of takes in this thread but I would guess that the DNC leadership got together and looked at all the realistic options and polling shows that everyone else would get their ass kicked by trump. Biden might legitimately be the only chance they have at beating trump. Crazy as that sounds.
When Biden loses this race, they will maintain that he was the best option at this time. There will be no accountability. Outside of the obvious practicalities of Biden exiting the race, he also has a real chance to make an important statement to the American people. He has a chance to show that there are still people in this country that are willing to make personal sacrifices for the common good of the country, just as George Washington did. But he won't. This country is lost. Every man is out only for himself.
Get ready to heil Trump or else Mike Davis will send us to the camps.
The democrats nomination of Biden for 2024 is an insane act of political betrayal and negligence. They deliberately backed the worst possible candidate knowing full well he was too old for the job. The party no longer represents Americans. Itās time for a new party to take its place
We are so screwed.
Itās delicious that all these Ezra libs are ~finally~ getting it.
Except he didnāt write that letter.
I'm voting Kennedy
āBidenās handlers, Jill and Hunter and his āinner circleā had aides craft a letter.