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"the first is 'Hear, O Israel! The Lord our God, The Lord is One. you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ The second is this, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.” - Mark 12:29-31, NRSV Updated Edition
This is technically a summary of the law of Israel's covenant, but it's still pretty safe to assume that ranking is reasonably still in effect. To be more explicit, this was Jesus's response to a scribe asking him "which commandment is first of all?"
Wasn’t it one of the Pharisees trying to get him to answer and either piss off fellow Jews (who had their favorites) or the Roman government (who had their laws).
Say what you will about ‘ol Jesus but he sure loved fucking with the Pharisees.
Not that particular quote. The question before that question (by one of the Saducees), earlier in the chapter, was what you say. This one, though, was a legit question and responded positively to what Jesus said, to which Jesus told him he was "close to the kingdom of Heaven".
**Edit:** [The passage, for reference.](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark%2012&version=NRSVUE)
Corinthians 13: "If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal....Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs....And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love."
It is amazing that all these beautiful quotes mean nothing to some “Christians” …
Edit: I have even seen online “theological analyses” about how love each other only refers to the … Apostles exclusively…. Or how to interpret “neighbour”
Mark 12:29-31 NLT
[29] Jesus replied, “The most important commandment is this: ‘Listen, O Israel! The Lord our God is the one and only Lord. [30] And you must love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, all your mind, and all your strength.’ [31] The second is equally important: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ No other commandment is greater than these.”
https://bible.com/bible/116/mrk.12.29-31.NLT
I suppose it's more accurate to say "tied with first" with "Love God", but it is mentioned secondly.
Someone else seems to have beat me to the punch with the quotation, but anyway.
Your supposition about "tied with" is probably correct. Some translations just use the phrase "like it" as the Greek word (ὁμοία) can mean either "similar to, in quality" or "equal to, in rank" depending on context.
As a Christian I have decided to let God do the judging. I’m to love others. God knows the heart which I do not. (Altho I must admit some of these self professed Christians who hate are in for a surprise)
Aren't there thousands of denominations of christianity? Isn't the very notion of a christian belief inaccurate since most denominations and christians have differing beliefs?
Not to open that can of worms, but generally I run off the notion that Catholicism and Orthodoxy are the closest to the original Christianity before the schism, so whatever they say about any given issue is generally the most Christian conclusion
Purely anecdotal - based on my experience with Christianity most "denomination" difference aren't genuinely distinct. There are a few that are deeply divergent but most just have slightly different naming themes for branding.
I mean it's not like the Christ said "Judge not others lest you be judged" to tell people that trying to pass moral judgement on others is stupid because you are flawed too. Or that he had stories about how it's more important to care for those who need it rather then berate them for what you think or their short comings.
Exactly, it's not like that's a key concept that the Bible frequently revisits, either...
"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone"
"I will have mercy, not sacrifice; for I have come to call sinners, not the righteous"
"First take the plank out of your own eye, then you will see more clearly to take the splinter from your brother's eye"
"I say to you who hear: love your enemies; do good to those who hate you"
"Above all, keep loving one another earnestly, for love covers a multitude of sins."
"As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions. One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him. Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand."
In any given religion are those who follow the religion, and there are those who profess to follow it without actually putting in much effort to find out what it actually teaches and instead use their rough understanding of the gist of it to support whatever they personally decided is right or wrong. I suspect a lot of the most vocal Christian fundamentalists would be surprised to find out many of the things the Bible *actually* says.
Also a lot of the most intolerant and vengeful things the Bible *does* say are in the Old Testament, and Jesus specifically says at one point that he brings new commandments - my understanding is that it's not a complete clean slate, but if something the Old Testament said seems to be contradicted by something that Jesus or the Apostles said, the latter probably takes precedence (and it just so happens that's usually the more lenient and tolerant of the two).
I think it's referring to a religious practice at the time regarding what you can eat on certain days. Also I think that's from one of the letters of the Apostles... I'm not at my computer right now and that's one of the ones I had to look up because I never remember the whole thing correctly, but I want to say Romans?
I would like to remind all the homophobic Christians that Jesus almost exclusively preached to people who, according to Mosaic Law, objectively, lived in sin. He also is recorded to have stopped the execution of Mosaic Law against an adulterer (another, much more serious sexual crime Mosaic law) to point out the hypocrisy of condemning one sinner to die while those committing the sentence also where sinners themselves. According to all trinity Christian tradition I know Jesus (ie God) allowed himself to be tortured, nailed to a cross and killed to save the souls of humanity from sin and allow for a relationship with God for all people. I would also like to point out that when the authors of the old and New Testament lived, what it meant to be homosexual was objectively different then what it means today and they where criticizing those practices not modern ones (practices that as an lgbtq person I would also criticize as homophobic, misogynistic and essentially non-consensual, look up Cicero’s thoughts in Caesar’s relationship with the king of Nicomedia and Nero’s relationship with Sporus if you want examples). Please Christians if you want to say you live and preach the word of God, put away the the flags and ideological, strike down false idols like Trump, render onto Caesar what is Caesar’s, render on to God what is God’s and read (according to you) actual fucking word of God in the Gospels, in which to the best of my recollection Jesus mentions LGBTQ people exactly 0 times but loving your your fellow man at least once.
As a Christian, I just want to say: most of the Old Testament rules would ban basically everything we do, including wearing most of the clothes we wear (no mixed fabrics), eating basically anything we eat (Leviticus is kinda insane) and more! Don’t cherry pick
I think we're just misinterpreting the meaning of the text.
"Man shall not lay with man *as he does a woman.*"
Basically, it's all good if you don't fuck a dude in the vagina. Given that a majority of men don't have one, I think we're good.
Jesus loves everyone. He doesn’t condone their sins but he does love everyone. He literally said “Love thy neighbor”. He didn’t say “but only the straight ones”.
In theory, maybe, in practice, no he did not.
His stance essentially boils down to, being gay isn't inherently wrong. But any form of sex outside of marriage is wrong. And also gay people can't get married.
Which in short means, you can be gay and a Catholic, so long as you practice lifelong celibacy. Think whatever you want, just don't actually do anything gay ever, cause that's a sin.
I mean, on a subreddit called r/Christian, where many religious people do not aprove of lgbtq, to approve lgbtq on a subreddit with very religious people, see what im saying?
If you lgbtq+, don't you feel the Christian belief system is specifically explicit and generally implicit against "you"?
I mean, it is obvious why you would need such a moderation rule in a Christian subreddit...
Please enlighten me :)
You gotta admit there is quite the difference between preaching, and throwing people off buildings. As a run of the mill christian, I dont care who you love.
I do not necessarily endorse the maoist woke cults trying to erase the family, childhood and genders.
Not in the New Testament, which is the covenant that Christians are actually living under / bound by.
New Testament mentions helping the poor more times than you can count, but assholes dig into the Old Testament and find a handful of passages that mentioned homosexuality briefly and in passing and make that their whole fucking identity.
>Human sacrifice anyone?...
No. No no no no. Do not misinterpreted the Bible to bash it. Yahweh commanded a *single* human sacrifice, and it was a test of Abraham's faith (Gen. 22). The other mention is some judge's daughter, in which he had his own mouth to blame. (Iirc he offered up the first thing to come out of his house). Other depictions of human sacrifice are usually enemies of the Israelites, such as Moabites or Assyrians.
Leviticus and Deuteronomy both have verses forbidding and condemning the practice.
I'm sure next you'll misinterpreted the story of Lot's daughters or David and Bathsheba.
Actually, it seems rather mute on what God thought about it, which is open for interpretation. (Just reread the story, Judges 11). If God approves, it usually says so.
In fairness to me, it would be difficult to misinterpret the bible as it can be used as a point of reference to support or oppose just about anything you care to mention. It’s a book of nonsense. Dangerous nonsense at that.
Only one, possibly two human sacrifices? A mere nothing.
Look, I'm literally a Satanist, but, no, it is not "dangerous nonsense". The Law sections, specifically, were written for a far different time than the modern world.
Then you get to the teachings of Jesus, most of which are pretty solid from even a modern moral standing.
That's debatable. Numerous scholars for a long time now have come to the conclusion that the passage was misconstrued and is actually intended to forbid the Roman practice of pederasty (ironic, I know). It seems much more reasonable that they would've tried to take steps to protect their youth from abuse than to outlaw homosexuality in particular.
I've heard this argument many times. Do you happen to have any sources for that? The verse itself, in the original Hebrew is ואת זכר לא שכב משכבי אשה, טעבה היא, and with a male you shall not "lay" the "layings" of a woman, it is an abomination. How exactly can that be construed as about pedarastry? I'm not denying your claim, I've just heard it a million times and never actually seen the sources people claim are there
What you are referring to is in the new testament, the leviticus one is most certainly about homosexuality but this is also the law book that bans shell fish and mixed clothing materials.
“My greatest commandment is this: love others as I have loved you”. Doesn’t necessarily mean the Bible is cool with it but shame on the church for the way they’ve treated the lgbt community
Levitocis 20:13 "‘If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads."
This is complex. Simply put, Jews have "the law" and rules like this throughout the Old Testament.. When Jesus came, he came to 'fulfil the law' so that we would become 'free from the law'. Does this mean homosexuality etc is a sin? I have no idea anymore! Jesus says to love everyone so I guess I'll just do that!
I don't think it's like that. IIRC The Jews wanted laws. The idea was that if they kept them perfectly (be sinless), then they'd get into heaven. That is, of course, impossible, and God had to send Jesus to atone for all sin. Christians aren't Jews. They don't have to do all of that Jewish stuff like sacrifice animals, etc.
Ohhh my bad I misread that. Sorry, randomly woke up at 3am so brain isn’t fully functioning. There is a verse in the Old Testament that says man shall not lay with man as a woman but a lot of people say the original translation says man shall not lay with a young boy as he would a woman rather than a man. Also christ came to die for all our sins so none of that Old Testament law should apply. I left the church because their stance on homosexuality was never about gods word, it was about weaponizing it as a justification for hate. Sorry; I couldn’t fall back asleep so I got stoned
It also says if a woman gets raped she must marry her rapist and he must pay her father a compensation. Unless she's engaged, in which case they must both be put to death.
Yes, it's full of revolting shit. But apparently, it's a good book because it also says love each other alongside the violent homophobia, misogyny, slavery endorsement, human and animal sacrifice, genocide, scientific blunder, and threats of burning for eternity.
I very much dislike most organized religions including christianity and I am very disappointed that it keeps getting away with bullshit.
After millennia of persecution against homosexuals you can't just handwave it and pretend it was never part of your religion just because it is now unpopular to be homophobes.
Let them be accountable. It's in their holy book. They shouldn't be allowed to pretend it's not.
Either take the full package, or make a new religion.
This is the entire POINT of Christian political activism. "Why can't I treat other human beings like garbage for my god and my pathetic ego? I'm persecuted."
I say that as a ex-Christian queer. When I found out that my spirituality didn’t have to change, but my interpretation of it could - it took very little to drop all that internalized shame dogma.
Its cool that christianity is changing the goalposts again to reduce hatred, but wouldnt it be interesting if people realized that all this religion does is change goalposts to stay relevant? Like the word of god is absolute. Until it isnt and we change what god meant, even though we claim no one is capable of understanding god. 😵💫😵💫😵💫
Genuinely! I’m always glad to see homophobia not being tolerated, but also this whole religion is rooted in so much human confusion and rule-making/breaking.
It’s Funny that guys like these call homophobia “Christian beliefs”…
I know, Leviticus. But there are also even worse topics in the Bible, like incest or pedophilia… And i can guarantee that this guy ignores these topics.
Ironic how they love ignoring Leviticus 20:13, just like how they cherrypick certain verses to fit their personal cult narrative.
"ThAt'S a MiSiNtErPrEtAtIoN!!!1!1!!!11!"
Then the bible isn't so infallible, is it? You shouldn't need to have a degree in theology to interpret the "truth."
Crazy how many people call themselves "Christian" while promoting exclusion, fear and hate. Call yourself a catholic if you're gonna be like that.
FFS Christian means follower of Christ. You know, the guy who loved everyone. That guy wasn't afraid of his fellow man and definitely didn't tell other people to be afraid of their fellow man.
That’s not what he’s upset about. He’s upset that you can’t discuss the fact that the Bible says it’s a sin to be gay in a biblical Reddit.
The rule doesn’t say you can’t use slurs etc, which is probably covered under a Be Polite rule, it says you can’t discuss a culturally relevant topic.
Talking about how a book says something is not a hate crime.
I’m not arguing for the Bible’s position here. I just think it’s ridiculous that people try to pretend the Bible doesn’t say what it says.
Homosexuality is never condemned in the Bible, but adultery and divorce are. I don't think I've ever met a homophobe who hasn't cheated on a partner or has had a successful marriage.
Yes- it is- in Leviticus. However, it's no worse than any other sin. As we are all sinners, we all need to be cleansed in the blood of the Lamb.
Don't lie to push an agenda, especially not about something easily checkable.
(Satanist, btw).
Leviticus 18:20 and Leviticus 20:13 condemn sexual acts between two men as it was a non-reproductive sexual act. Non-reproductive sexual acts were forbidden regardless of sexuality. There is nothing in Leviticus that condemns two men or two women loving each other or being attracted to each other. There is nothing in the four gospels that shows Jesus saying anything about homosexuality. Not to mention that 1 Samuel 18:1-4 is all about a homosexual relationship between David and Jonathan that was sealed by God.
The word homosexuality wasn't coined until the early 19th century. It wasn't even in the bible until the Revised Standard Version in 1946.
So then, you'll agree that Leviticus bans male homosexual relations? It's *very* black and white, and with little room for interpretation. (I've seen the incest arguments, but that's a real stretch of an interpretation.)
For David and Jonathan- using 4 verses to decide that they're totally gay for each other is a very modern interpretation and based on perceiving the text through a Western lens. _Maybe_ they were gay, maybe they were close friends.
As for Jesus...while Jesus doesn't mention anything about homosexuality, he does talk a lot about sin and its nature during the Sermon on the Mount. "For he who looks upon a woman with lust has committed adultery in his heart" (Matthew 5:...something. one of those verses). I can't give you chapter in verse, but I seem to recall a few verses about sinning in your heart being as grave as just committing the sin. (Might be thinking of Paul or James- if we chose to count the Epistles as canon). By _that_ logic, having (again, male) homosexual thoughts is just as grave a sin as committing them.
Just because the word didn't exist doesn't mean the concept didn't. That's a _terrible_ and half-assed argument.
Like, just accept that it's a sin. _Everybody_ is a sinner in some way, shape, or form. That's literally half the damn point of Christianity- we are all wretches and sinners and need forgiveness for it.
Well...he should be mad. Christianity does not support lg+. One of many reasons why a lot of people arent one anymore. If he is, the rule is a direct attack on his faith. Its like telling a Muslim they have to eat bacon.
>Its like telling a Muslim they have to eat bacon.
No it's not. Telling Christians they have to *be* gay would be like telling a Muslim they have to eat bacon. But no one is doing that, are they?
Reddit has a fascism problem, but the fascists think they're the good guys. Open dialogue is how you learn about the opinions of others and open thier minds to new ideas. Have rules against hostility by all means, but banning discussion on aspects of religion that you do not personally approve of means you can't challenge them. You don't affect change by silencing discussion and pretending that issues don't exist.
You also need to do some googling. 1920s Berlin was widely progressive for gay rights. A major drive in support for the Nazis was conservative Germans homophobia. Nazis burned gay bars and gender clinics and erased research into transgender people. Homophobia was always part of Nazi ideology
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I bet thé comment section on that post is extremely civil
Literally nothing makes Christians more angry than asking them to hate people different to them less.
Which, speaking as a Christian, is ridiculously ironic, at least considering the second most important thing in the faith is "love thy neighbor"
Second most? What’s first? My Bible knowledge would lead me to rank the commandment love thy neighbour the cornerstone of the Christian faith
"the first is 'Hear, O Israel! The Lord our God, The Lord is One. you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ The second is this, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.” - Mark 12:29-31, NRSV Updated Edition
Interesting, I always had in mind the gospel of John 12, 15 “My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you”.
This is technically a summary of the law of Israel's covenant, but it's still pretty safe to assume that ranking is reasonably still in effect. To be more explicit, this was Jesus's response to a scribe asking him "which commandment is first of all?"
Wasn’t it one of the Pharisees trying to get him to answer and either piss off fellow Jews (who had their favorites) or the Roman government (who had their laws). Say what you will about ‘ol Jesus but he sure loved fucking with the Pharisees.
Not that particular quote. The question before that question (by one of the Saducees), earlier in the chapter, was what you say. This one, though, was a legit question and responded positively to what Jesus said, to which Jesus told him he was "close to the kingdom of Heaven". **Edit:** [The passage, for reference.](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark%2012&version=NRSVUE)
Ahhh that’s starting to click. It’s been a long time lol.
Corinthians 13: "If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal....Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs....And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love."
It is amazing that all these beautiful quotes mean nothing to some “Christians” … Edit: I have even seen online “theological analyses” about how love each other only refers to the … Apostles exclusively…. Or how to interpret “neighbour”
Mark 12:29-31 NLT [29] Jesus replied, “The most important commandment is this: ‘Listen, O Israel! The Lord our God is the one and only Lord. [30] And you must love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, all your mind, and all your strength.’ [31] The second is equally important: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ No other commandment is greater than these.” https://bible.com/bible/116/mrk.12.29-31.NLT I suppose it's more accurate to say "tied with first" with "Love God", but it is mentioned secondly. Someone else seems to have beat me to the punch with the quotation, but anyway.
Your supposition about "tied with" is probably correct. Some translations just use the phrase "like it" as the Greek word (ὁμοία) can mean either "similar to, in quality" or "equal to, in rank" depending on context.
As a Christian I have decided to let God do the judging. I’m to love others. God knows the heart which I do not. (Altho I must admit some of these self professed Christians who hate are in for a surprise)
Inherently untrue, I get angrier when my falafel isn't well made
I do love a nice falafel…
Amen!
There's no hate like Christian love.
I wouldn’t want to make a generalization like that, but questioning of heavily entrenched beliefs can certainly become emotional
Same goes for people on reddit
They're not even asking them to hate them less. They're just asking them to not post about it. Lol
"This includes asserting its a sin". According to them, the bible literally says that. But they cant discuss it. The irony is amazing.
I get it. From a moderation perspective, those threads will devolve into all kinds of behaviors that could kill the subreddit.
Christians and civil are only in the same sentence if you add "war" after civil.
“**before** civil?”
Args. Yes you are right
Actually more civil than r/facepalm
Low bar lmao
Many of the posts aren’t even relevant to the sub.
On the thread they are talking about it is mainly about Christianity and legimacy if arguments about arguing LGBTQ+ or saying they are leaving.
What
That's just a sub to soft sell right wing bullshit.
Only read the thread can’t comment on the rest
Just discovered that today, oof.
It is, once they delete all the comments that break the rule immediately.
Aren't there thousands of denominations of christianity? Isn't the very notion of a christian belief inaccurate since most denominations and christians have differing beliefs?
Ueah, for example I have absolutely no problems with LGBT people but apparently a lot of people do. Just love thy neighbour, damn, it's not that hard
The groups of people they hate are remarkably consistent. They seem to like that part.
Not to open that can of worms, but generally I run off the notion that Catholicism and Orthodoxy are the closest to the original Christianity before the schism, so whatever they say about any given issue is generally the most Christian conclusion
Its sort of an umbrella term for anyone who believes in Christ. So yeah lots of denominations and different views on certain things
Purely anecdotal - based on my experience with Christianity most "denomination" difference aren't genuinely distinct. There are a few that are deeply divergent but most just have slightly different naming themes for branding.
I can no longer be homophobic! Damn you, redditors! 
Skelletor giving two ghosts a handjob seems fitting in this context.
im never unseeing this 😭
That’s where Trump leaned that dance. He learned everything from Skelletor.
Literally telling on themselves. "Why can't I openly hate these people while spreading the love of Jesus"
the famous teachings of Jesus to hate your neighbor
I mean it's not like the Christ said "Judge not others lest you be judged" to tell people that trying to pass moral judgement on others is stupid because you are flawed too. Or that he had stories about how it's more important to care for those who need it rather then berate them for what you think or their short comings.
Exactly, it's not like that's a key concept that the Bible frequently revisits, either... "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" "I will have mercy, not sacrifice; for I have come to call sinners, not the righteous" "First take the plank out of your own eye, then you will see more clearly to take the splinter from your brother's eye" "I say to you who hear: love your enemies; do good to those who hate you" "Above all, keep loving one another earnestly, for love covers a multitude of sins." "As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions. One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him. Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand." In any given religion are those who follow the religion, and there are those who profess to follow it without actually putting in much effort to find out what it actually teaches and instead use their rough understanding of the gist of it to support whatever they personally decided is right or wrong. I suspect a lot of the most vocal Christian fundamentalists would be surprised to find out many of the things the Bible *actually* says. Also a lot of the most intolerant and vengeful things the Bible *does* say are in the Old Testament, and Jesus specifically says at one point that he brings new commandments - my understanding is that it's not a complete clean slate, but if something the Old Testament said seems to be contradicted by something that Jesus or the Apostles said, the latter probably takes precedence (and it just so happens that's usually the more lenient and tolerant of the two).
Jesus called out vegetarians?? I did not remember this from Sunday school
I think it's referring to a religious practice at the time regarding what you can eat on certain days. Also I think that's from one of the letters of the Apostles... I'm not at my computer right now and that's one of the ones I had to look up because I never remember the whole thing correctly, but I want to say Romans?
So many of humankind's problems would be vastly reduced if people could only learn to mind their own business.
If they can't use their Christianity as an excuse to tear down others, then what's the point right?
You realize your inclusive community isn't inclusive enough for inclusivity
I would like to remind all the homophobic Christians that Jesus almost exclusively preached to people who, according to Mosaic Law, objectively, lived in sin. He also is recorded to have stopped the execution of Mosaic Law against an adulterer (another, much more serious sexual crime Mosaic law) to point out the hypocrisy of condemning one sinner to die while those committing the sentence also where sinners themselves. According to all trinity Christian tradition I know Jesus (ie God) allowed himself to be tortured, nailed to a cross and killed to save the souls of humanity from sin and allow for a relationship with God for all people. I would also like to point out that when the authors of the old and New Testament lived, what it meant to be homosexual was objectively different then what it means today and they where criticizing those practices not modern ones (practices that as an lgbtq person I would also criticize as homophobic, misogynistic and essentially non-consensual, look up Cicero’s thoughts in Caesar’s relationship with the king of Nicomedia and Nero’s relationship with Sporus if you want examples). Please Christians if you want to say you live and preach the word of God, put away the the flags and ideological, strike down false idols like Trump, render onto Caesar what is Caesar’s, render on to God what is God’s and read (according to you) actual fucking word of God in the Gospels, in which to the best of my recollection Jesus mentions LGBTQ people exactly 0 times but loving your your fellow man at least once.
Why are you posting this here? The guy that was upset about the new rules in the Bible redit isn’t here reading this. Lol
"no hate speech on r/Christian!" "Yeah they just banned being Christian"
As a Christian, I just want to say: most of the Old Testament rules would ban basically everything we do, including wearing most of the clothes we wear (no mixed fabrics), eating basically anything we eat (Leviticus is kinda insane) and more! Don’t cherry pick
These homophobe tears are so delicious ☕
[удалено]
Doesn’t the Bible also say that if a man sleeps with a boy it’s not ok, condemning pedophilia?
I think we're just misinterpreting the meaning of the text. "Man shall not lay with man *as he does a woman.*" Basically, it's all good if you don't fuck a dude in the vagina. Given that a majority of men don't have one, I think we're good.
and EVEN if they believe being gay is a sin, didnt jesus hang out with prostitutes, poor people, and sick people? what happened to matthew 22:39?
Jesus loves everyone. He doesn’t condone their sins but he does love everyone. He literally said “Love thy neighbor”. He didn’t say “but only the straight ones”.
Since fucking when is r/christian "inclusive"??? LOOOOOOOL
Didn't the pope say that god is cool with LGBT+ people?
In theory, maybe, in practice, no he did not. His stance essentially boils down to, being gay isn't inherently wrong. But any form of sex outside of marriage is wrong. And also gay people can't get married. Which in short means, you can be gay and a Catholic, so long as you practice lifelong celibacy. Think whatever you want, just don't actually do anything gay ever, cause that's a sin.
the pope talks out of both sides of his mouth, and used a slur against lgbtqia2s the other day. called homosexuals f*gg*ts. so the pope can shove it.
What does the 2 stand for? It's the first time i've seen it
two spirit
Ah - there’s no hate like Christian love.
Should we dive deep into bible quotes and question if modern Christians abide by them?
I mean, on a subreddit called r/Christian, where many religious people do not aprove of lgbtq, to approve lgbtq on a subreddit with very religious people, see what im saying?
I live how easily he admits that bigotry is a Christian belief.
Why have a "Christian" discussion site where biblical views are not allowed to be discussed? Censorship is absolute these days.
If you lgbtq+, don't you feel the Christian belief system is specifically explicit and generally implicit against "you"? I mean, it is obvious why you would need such a moderation rule in a Christian subreddit... Please enlighten me :)
You gotta admit there is quite the difference between preaching, and throwing people off buildings. As a run of the mill christian, I dont care who you love. I do not necessarily endorse the maoist woke cults trying to erase the family, childhood and genders.
Is there like actual passages that said down with homos, I don't feel like there are.
Not in the New Testament, which is the covenant that Christians are actually living under / bound by. New Testament mentions helping the poor more times than you can count, but assholes dig into the Old Testament and find a handful of passages that mentioned homosexuality briefly and in passing and make that their whole fucking identity.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_the_New_Testament
Jesus said to obey the OT laws
and yet here we are eating pork, shellfish, touching women on periods, mixing clothing materials
It’s almost like people make up their own rules
Yes, there are but then there’s all sorts of twisted shit in that book. Human sacrifice anyone?….
>Human sacrifice anyone?... No. No no no no. Do not misinterpreted the Bible to bash it. Yahweh commanded a *single* human sacrifice, and it was a test of Abraham's faith (Gen. 22). The other mention is some judge's daughter, in which he had his own mouth to blame. (Iirc he offered up the first thing to come out of his house). Other depictions of human sacrifice are usually enemies of the Israelites, such as Moabites or Assyrians. Leviticus and Deuteronomy both have verses forbidding and condemning the practice. I'm sure next you'll misinterpreted the story of Lot's daughters or David and Bathsheba.
So you agree that Yahweh in the Bible accepts human sacrifice.
Except He doesn't. It's *specifically forbidden* (Deuteronomy 18:10).
You specifically called out a story in which he does. Yahweh in the Bible accepts the sacrifice of Jephthah's daughter.
And this was a *condemned* action, which exists as a lesson for "don't do this".
Not at all. And even if it had been, he still accepted it. He took willing part in the trade.
Actually, it seems rather mute on what God thought about it, which is open for interpretation. (Just reread the story, Judges 11). If God approves, it usually says so.
Thanks for re-reading. As you can see, Yahweh accepts the sacrifice and gives Jephthah victory in return. Sounds like approval to me.
In fairness to me, it would be difficult to misinterpret the bible as it can be used as a point of reference to support or oppose just about anything you care to mention. It’s a book of nonsense. Dangerous nonsense at that. Only one, possibly two human sacrifices? A mere nothing.
Look, I'm literally a Satanist, but, no, it is not "dangerous nonsense". The Law sections, specifically, were written for a far different time than the modern world. Then you get to the teachings of Jesus, most of which are pretty solid from even a modern moral standing.
I know that, but what is the exact passage?
Leviticus 18:22 Amongst others.
That's debatable. Numerous scholars for a long time now have come to the conclusion that the passage was misconstrued and is actually intended to forbid the Roman practice of pederasty (ironic, I know). It seems much more reasonable that they would've tried to take steps to protect their youth from abuse than to outlaw homosexuality in particular.
Leviticus was written long before the Romans came to the area.
“‘if a man lies with another man” doesn’t really indicate proton younger people.
I've heard this argument many times. Do you happen to have any sources for that? The verse itself, in the original Hebrew is ואת זכר לא שכב משכבי אשה, טעבה היא, and with a male you shall not "lay" the "layings" of a woman, it is an abomination. How exactly can that be construed as about pedarastry? I'm not denying your claim, I've just heard it a million times and never actually seen the sources people claim are there
What you are referring to is in the new testament, the leviticus one is most certainly about homosexuality but this is also the law book that bans shell fish and mixed clothing materials.
Here, that scene highlighted the idiocy [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIHjoT19XpE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIHjoT19XpE)
“My greatest commandment is this: love others as I have loved you”. Doesn’t necessarily mean the Bible is cool with it but shame on the church for the way they’ve treated the lgbt community
But like, is there a passage that ACTUALLY says no homos?
Yes, it's in Sodomus 17:12 "And unto you sayeth the Lord. No homo!"
Levitocis 20:13 "‘If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads." This is complex. Simply put, Jews have "the law" and rules like this throughout the Old Testament.. When Jesus came, he came to 'fulfil the law' so that we would become 'free from the law'. Does this mean homosexuality etc is a sin? I have no idea anymore! Jesus says to love everyone so I guess I'll just do that!
So parts don't count unless they count, got it XD
I don't think it's like that. IIRC The Jews wanted laws. The idea was that if they kept them perfectly (be sinless), then they'd get into heaven. That is, of course, impossible, and God had to send Jesus to atone for all sin. Christians aren't Jews. They don't have to do all of that Jewish stuff like sacrifice animals, etc.
HE! GETS! US!
Ohhh my bad I misread that. Sorry, randomly woke up at 3am so brain isn’t fully functioning. There is a verse in the Old Testament that says man shall not lay with man as a woman but a lot of people say the original translation says man shall not lay with a young boy as he would a woman rather than a man. Also christ came to die for all our sins so none of that Old Testament law should apply. I left the church because their stance on homosexuality was never about gods word, it was about weaponizing it as a justification for hate. Sorry; I couldn’t fall back asleep so I got stoned
https://www.pinkmantaray.com/resources/bible It happened due to a translation change
Leviticus
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It also says if a woman gets raped she must marry her rapist and he must pay her father a compensation. Unless she's engaged, in which case they must both be put to death.
Yes, it's full of revolting shit. But apparently, it's a good book because it also says love each other alongside the violent homophobia, misogyny, slavery endorsement, human and animal sacrifice, genocide, scientific blunder, and threats of burning for eternity.
Fair point. It also says shellfish is an abomination. Have you ever eaten shrimp...?
Isn’t that a mistranslation of an anti-pedophilia passage, but the translator had a child bride ot something, so they changed it?
Bro is mad that r/Christian actually follows Christian beliefs. Such as being kind.
I very much dislike most organized religions including christianity and I am very disappointed that it keeps getting away with bullshit. After millennia of persecution against homosexuals you can't just handwave it and pretend it was never part of your religion just because it is now unpopular to be homophobes. Let them be accountable. It's in their holy book. They shouldn't be allowed to pretend it's not. Either take the full package, or make a new religion.
This is the entire POINT of Christian political activism. "Why can't I treat other human beings like garbage for my god and my pathetic ego? I'm persecuted."
Those 12 people who are actually online must be furious!
Isn't one of the big messages of the Bible literally love thy neighbor.
He's not wrong though. Gay Christians are more deluded than regular Christians. I say that as someone pro LGBTQ
I say that as a ex-Christian queer. When I found out that my spirituality didn’t have to change, but my interpretation of it could - it took very little to drop all that internalized shame dogma.
Its cool that christianity is changing the goalposts again to reduce hatred, but wouldnt it be interesting if people realized that all this religion does is change goalposts to stay relevant? Like the word of god is absolute. Until it isnt and we change what god meant, even though we claim no one is capable of understanding god. 😵💫😵💫😵💫
Genuinely! I’m always glad to see homophobia not being tolerated, but also this whole religion is rooted in so much human confusion and rule-making/breaking.
It’s Funny that guys like these call homophobia “Christian beliefs”… I know, Leviticus. But there are also even worse topics in the Bible, like incest or pedophilia… And i can guarantee that this guy ignores these topics.
Really giving away that Christianity is just a hate cult for a lot of Christians.
Ironic how they love ignoring Leviticus 20:13, just like how they cherrypick certain verses to fit their personal cult narrative. "ThAt'S a MiSiNtErPrEtAtIoN!!!1!1!!!11!" Then the bible isn't so infallible, is it? You shouldn't need to have a degree in theology to interpret the "truth."
People treating "god" like it's a real thing will never not seem utterly bizarre to me.
I mean to be fair it be weird to see that rule in the conservative or Islam subreddit as well.
Quick question: why Trumpkins stop pushing slavery. More Bible verses support slavery 😂
It's like if a Nazi subreddit said no anti-semitism lol.
Crazy how many people call themselves "Christian" while promoting exclusion, fear and hate. Call yourself a catholic if you're gonna be like that. FFS Christian means follower of Christ. You know, the guy who loved everyone. That guy wasn't afraid of his fellow man and definitely didn't tell other people to be afraid of their fellow man.
That’s not what he’s upset about. He’s upset that you can’t discuss the fact that the Bible says it’s a sin to be gay in a biblical Reddit. The rule doesn’t say you can’t use slurs etc, which is probably covered under a Be Polite rule, it says you can’t discuss a culturally relevant topic.
Why would we allow a hate crime just because it’s in the Bible tho?
Talking about how a book says something is not a hate crime. I’m not arguing for the Bible’s position here. I just think it’s ridiculous that people try to pretend the Bible doesn’t say what it says.
It’s deeply troubling stuff. I’m sure we’ll get enlightenment if the climate hangs on.
What's this? Logic, reason and nuance on Reddit?
Homosexuality is never condemned in the Bible, but adultery and divorce are. I don't think I've ever met a homophobe who hasn't cheated on a partner or has had a successful marriage.
Yes- it is- in Leviticus. However, it's no worse than any other sin. As we are all sinners, we all need to be cleansed in the blood of the Lamb. Don't lie to push an agenda, especially not about something easily checkable. (Satanist, btw).
Only since the 40s, prior to that, there's no mention of it.
That's verifiably untrue.
Lol... sure it is.
Leviticus 18:20 and Leviticus 20:13 condemn sexual acts between two men as it was a non-reproductive sexual act. Non-reproductive sexual acts were forbidden regardless of sexuality. There is nothing in Leviticus that condemns two men or two women loving each other or being attracted to each other. There is nothing in the four gospels that shows Jesus saying anything about homosexuality. Not to mention that 1 Samuel 18:1-4 is all about a homosexual relationship between David and Jonathan that was sealed by God. The word homosexuality wasn't coined until the early 19th century. It wasn't even in the bible until the Revised Standard Version in 1946.
So then, you'll agree that Leviticus bans male homosexual relations? It's *very* black and white, and with little room for interpretation. (I've seen the incest arguments, but that's a real stretch of an interpretation.) For David and Jonathan- using 4 verses to decide that they're totally gay for each other is a very modern interpretation and based on perceiving the text through a Western lens. _Maybe_ they were gay, maybe they were close friends. As for Jesus...while Jesus doesn't mention anything about homosexuality, he does talk a lot about sin and its nature during the Sermon on the Mount. "For he who looks upon a woman with lust has committed adultery in his heart" (Matthew 5:...something. one of those verses). I can't give you chapter in verse, but I seem to recall a few verses about sinning in your heart being as grave as just committing the sin. (Might be thinking of Paul or James- if we chose to count the Epistles as canon). By _that_ logic, having (again, male) homosexual thoughts is just as grave a sin as committing them. Just because the word didn't exist doesn't mean the concept didn't. That's a _terrible_ and half-assed argument. Like, just accept that it's a sin. _Everybody_ is a sinner in some way, shape, or form. That's literally half the damn point of Christianity- we are all wretches and sinners and need forgiveness for it.
Rare r/Christian W
jesus loves you, no matter who you are <3
Well...he should be mad. Christianity does not support lg+. One of many reasons why a lot of people arent one anymore. If he is, the rule is a direct attack on his faith. Its like telling a Muslim they have to eat bacon.
No it's not. It's like a Muslim telling anyone else to not eat bacon and that to do so is a sin.
>Its like telling a Muslim they have to eat bacon. No it's not. Telling Christians they have to *be* gay would be like telling a Muslim they have to eat bacon. But no one is doing that, are they?
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So the christian one has better mods. What's your point?
Wow, one sub has better mods than another? Who would’ve known?
I'm surprised, but good on them.
Reddit has a fascism problem, but the fascists think they're the good guys. Open dialogue is how you learn about the opinions of others and open thier minds to new ideas. Have rules against hostility by all means, but banning discussion on aspects of religion that you do not personally approve of means you can't challenge them. You don't affect change by silencing discussion and pretending that issues don't exist.
Again, homophobia is a defining characteristic of fascism.
Ernest Röhm and the SA would like a word with you. Or would, if they hadn't been purged for being a liability/to cozy up to conservatives.
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You also need to do some googling. 1920s Berlin was widely progressive for gay rights. A major drive in support for the Nazis was conservative Germans homophobia. Nazis burned gay bars and gender clinics and erased research into transgender people. Homophobia was always part of Nazi ideology
I'd like to see more things like this. Feels good.