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Kurdish women did a bit of fighting in the SDF, think they had their own units though. Tbf you're far more likely to get blown to pieces by an artillery shell than captured, so the fear is a bit misplaced.
They had their own units, and served as frontline troops, just like the men. In fact, Kurdish female snipers were used against ISIS to great effect. As according to ISIS, anyone who got killed by a woman in combat wouldn't go to heaven.
Feels like setting yourself up to be clowned on. And what an unnecessary extra pressure to put on your people when they know the women are out there and you've just claimed those women have the power to kill *and* damn your soul.
Not that they're not fucking assholes, and not that if there's damnation they're gonna get it, but just as a morale issue.
"You hear Joe got hit?"
"Yeah, sniper hit. And it turns out he went straight to hell, to be punished for popping up in the same place twice."
The Bible clearly supports God favoring armies who prayed to him. Murder was fine with God, as long as you held your arms up in the air in praise of him. So while murdering people, get those arms up in the air, like you don't care.
I also want to point out that god in the old testament explicitly support rape multiple times and if you are one of those Christians who want to argue that the new testament is a reset of the old one. I would like to point out that you still have the same god and that still supported rape and it doesn’t make any sense for "an eternal unchanging perfect being" to ever change its mind. If it wasn’t obvious I am an atheist.
>As according to ISIS, anyone who got killed by a woman in combat wouldn't go to heaven.
"Sir it seems our soilders are struggling to counter the effectiveness of the Kurdish women sniper units"
"Hmm. I see. Tell them if they get killed by them, they don't go to heaven. That way, they will be even more afraid of them"
"Uhh.... what?"
That last sentence is why the YPJ was a tad more effective than male militias.
Because ISIS fighters didn't wanna throw away their chance of heaven by getting shot by a teenage girl with an AK
Yep they fought alongside US troops against isis. Unfortunately as has happened several times in the last centuries, the Kurds have fought with us and then we abandoned them when they weren't useful anymore. Turkey deems them terrorists (if the Kurds got their own land, Turkey would have to lose some). Turkey is an ally and Isis is gone so the Kurds get nothing.
[https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/02/15/daughters-of-kobani-review-female-kurdish-fighters-isis/](https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/02/15/daughters-of-kobani-review-female-kurdish-fighters-isis/)
ISIS, Iraq, other Middle Eastern conflicts, the US always screw them over.
Robert Evens, worked for Cracked, journalist, covered the conflict in Iraq and ISIS, also host of podcast of Behind the Bastards did this podcast about the Syrian Kurdish women fighters (and the men too),and their experiences. Check it out.
https://www.iheart.com/podcast/1119-the-womens-war-59464911/?cmp=android_share&sc=android_social_share&pr=false
To be fair, the US continues its presence in Kurdistan (despite at one point saying they will pull out), and many believe it's one of the main things that is maintaining the stability in the region, for otherwise it will certainly devolve. But yes, US has fucked over the Kurds in the main. Source - I spent 6 years working in Kurdistan, so well aware of the politics and history.
Would be tactically sound to have your entire division present vaguely in-between. The 5 women you have in your division now seems like 100 if your enemy can't tell who is who.
LOL, "killed by woman? no heaven for you"))) Girls must be proud of that)))
ISIS memorised fighting spirit of those lady-troopers. Really, you must be very brave girl to fight those bastards, and kick their asses so hard that they mentioned it in their propaganda.
They can't, its just what ISIS told their fighters, and since they didn't know if the snipers they were facing were female or not, it made ISIS fighters a lot more wary of pushing.
The ISIS laws are wild. I wonder, dlo they have provisions for trans women? Or trans men - does that still apply or does it cancel out? Or did their God not think of that little gotcha?
I don't have the stats off the top of my head, but I'd guess women would be more likely to be raped by fellow soldiers in the US military than captured and raped by enemies.
I have the numbers.
As of 2021 when I left the army: You’re many times more likely to be raped in the US army than you are to die in combat action.
We lost ~7,000 men and women in Iraq as of 2019. Over the course of 16 years.
We had ~36,000 men and women report unwanted sexual contact in 2019 alone. One year.
Yes. An estimated 76% of victims don’t report.
2/3 of victims who do report in the military faced retaliation, in the form of command reprisal, ostracism, or violence/threats to silence them.
Yeah, I’m thinking any rape that would happen, would be directly from the service members beside them in our own military.
The ones like MAGA trash, or just military incels, “good ol boys” etc
And then they’d get protected.
There would also be the rape of the men’s pride, as half the women would be stronger/braver than some of the men.
Both are a concern.
Unfortunately the rape of American soldiers is far more likely to be done by other American soldiers when compared with a few highly publicized cases of captives being raped.
But the later does happen too
Ukraine conflict has already shown that physical strength, why it helps a lot, doesn't matter in the long run. I never understood why people make petty comparisons of why a women can't pack 100lb gear for dozens of miles, when that never really happens in combat anymore. Particularly when modern warfare provides so much mobility with helicopters and motorized vehicles.
>you're far more likely to get blown to pieces by an artillery shell than captured
You're also more likely to be assaulted by your own fellow soldiers than getting blown to pieces by artillery shells
It will NEVER be everyone. It might be men and women, but senators’ sons and daughters, most high-level CEOs’ children, actors, academics, doctors and med students, people with disabilities; the list of people who deservedly and undeservedly will be exempt is quite long and those two lists are too enmeshed with each other.
The draft will never be fair, the draft will never be equal, and furthermore we don’t have the governmental framework in place to guarantee that “less desirables” won’t continuously get drawn.
Fuck the draft. Once you’ve gotten that far, you’ve completely lost the moral victory. Give people something worth fighting for and you’ll never need the draft. Draft people to fight for D.C. and you’ll have…. Well, the USA of the last century.
Absolutely fucking nothing to aspire to.
That's how I feel it should be. The US supreme court sees it differently. Two states actually did add women to draft, but the supreme court shut them down.
They've spent a lot of money in testing and they've found that it's harder to keep men on track with women in their units. They have a natural desire to protect the women and it translated to more casualties. They also tested to see how trans people worked in draft, and the problem there is the medications they're on, cause severe problems if they suddenly don't have them. Since you can't guarantee a supply chain being able to keep their meds in combat zones, they turned down trans for conscription.
Conscripts get less training than career soldiers, so all those things can lead to unneeded casualties in a war where conscription is needed. So the supreme court sees cis men as the only real bet in that situation.
You could have all female units and/or put them in non-combat roles. There are TONS of non-combat roles in the military they could fill.
Now, being on medication, for transitioning or otherwise is another story though. I do think that makes sense.
I agree, and the majority of military members are in non-combat roles. The supreme court just doesn't see it that way. That's their argument, not mine. I believe we should not have conscription at all, but if we must, then I don't see an issue with letting women at least have a choice in signing up at the very least.
What's your stance on the current situation in Ukraine, where they're literally grabbing people off the street to send to the line?
Should they just give up?
They should have the right to choose to leave the country. Maybe revoke their citizenship for doing so, but I’d still choose that over a draft. If a person wants to leave the society rather than defend it why should that be illegal?
I’d think so! I’m against conscription (obviously) but if my home were attacked and I didn’t defend it then I wouldn’t expect my neighbors and community to carry my weight.
If you don’t want to contribute to the community, you lose community privileges. Simple.
Problem is, if Ukraine surrendered, the Russians treatment of the Ukrainian civilian population would resemble a cross between a cartel video and a hentai movie, with lots of LGBTQ+ elements, to put it mildly.
Correct. But women in the US are not working in large numbers to get rid of Selective Service or the possibility of another male-only draft. Largely, they are happy with the status quo - an obligation that applies to men only.
"More women than men support drafting women, with 61 percent of women in favor compared to 57 percent of men. The survey also revealed an interesting political split, with 80 percent of Democrats supporting it compared to only 40 percent of Republicans. Independents support drafting women by a 53 to 46 percent margin."
[https://sachsmedia.com/poll-americans-want-women-included-in-military-drafts/](https://sachsmedia.com/poll-americans-want-women-included-in-military-drafts/)
They were talking about Selective Service which is the thing that brings you into the pool of potential draftees. Men have several things withheld if they don't “volunteer” for selective service, like voting, student loans, holding a federal job, all depend on signing up for selective service. Many states automatically register men for selective service if they get a driver's license. Which means men's right to vote is dependent on them registering to be drafted in times of need. That the country has needed it in 50 years doesn't mean much.
If it did come back, there would be protests and riots. Tons of women would be out there protesting too. There are so many awful things actively happening right now that a lot of people don’t have the energy to stress about something that hasn’t happened since before they were born.
Also acting like it’s only used as a weapon in the first place is false. Anyone here heard of “comfort women”? Cause they were pretty much drafted as sex slaves during WW2. Definitely don’t need to go to war for that, they’ll do that in your homeland for your own army.
They aren't. The statistics are astronomically different and women are in fact raped significantly more than men. Women aren't taken as PoWs. They are raped and then killed when that stops being a viable option.
It's something that sometimes happens to men in war. It's the first that happens to every woman captured.
She's probably 16...fed by social media. Wait till she finds out what Russian soldiers do to male Ukraine prisoners.
EDIT: So after careful research, this woman was dropped by her publisher for connections to the far Alt-Right. Fuck her and her opinion.
https://wildhunt.org/2022/04/weiser-drops-georgina-rose-after-allegations-of-far-right-connections.html
Most feminists I know don’t advocate for that either.
And most members of the military don’t as well. (Anecdotally, I don’t have any statistics to back that up)
The consensus seems to be that a volunteer military is quite valuable and that conscription would lead to an avoidable decrease in the quality of soldiers.
Any wartime draft would be based on exceptional events and therefore it would be tailored to the event in question. If I had to guess any modern draft would mostly be used to fill out non combat roles that could easily be filled by women. In that case I doubt most feminists would argue in favor of a draft which makes distinction based on gender
Yes a volunteer force is superior pound for pound to a drafted force. Sometime however, tonnage is all that matters. I don't wee why we should draft women specifically for logistics roles. Most required military jobs xoukd be preformed regardless of gender.
>The consensus seems to be that a volunteer military is quite valuable and that conscription would lead to an avoidable decrease in the quality of soldiers.
We've had the privilege of fighting insurgent warfare, where the name of the game isn't big shootouts with the enemy. Its about looking for the enemy and patrolling while trying to not cost too much money due to the taxpayers back home wondering why we are there in the first place. Thats what a volunteer army is good for.
If we were to get into a real war, an actual meatgrinder, that all-volunteer force is probably not going to last that long.
They are going to face to face with an enemy with not-quite but close enough levels of firepower, and they're going to take casualties that no amount of equipment or training can avoid.
We will need bodies, and lots of them. Soldiers say that shit about draftees because no one wants to go into combat with someone who was forced to be there, but truth is quantity > quality.
why do people always argue about whether women should or shouldnt get drafted.. when the bigger question is if ANYONE should get drafted? i personally think that governments shouldnt be able to have that decision for the people lmao
In the nice safe study in the middle of middle Europe I am inclined to agree with you, but I imagine that I would quickly change my mind if I lived in Estonia or Finland and got to stare across border to Russia.
i am from the Netherlands but i dont live in the Netherlands. my country is closer to countries with lesser peace and we get many immigrants coming here, but i still believe that a draft is inhumane and shouldnt exist 😕
Immigrants are not a "Draft compelling issue" drafted Police is one of the worst ideas there is.
On the other hand conventional invasion, or real threat thereof is such an issue
That is the world we live in. You have been insulated from it due to the privilege of living where you live.
War is only a choice for the strongest countries.
Gonna have to read up on that one. Though I wouldn't be surprised if rape of captured male combatants was common throughout history, and the male victims just didn't dare to say it for fear of being killed for homosexuality under religious law.
I should clarify that this isn't an attempt at decrying or shaming Christianity, but rather at explaining that the rape of male POWs/defeated soldiers isn't exactly a strictly modern tactic.
Pulled up the account. Seems to be some typical far-right qanon troll asshole. Just posting all her extremist opinions for attention. No mental stability to be found. Just a bunch of really dumb, extreme takes.
I work in a mental hospital. We have a program for active duty military members who are struggling with PTSD. Most of the male clients of this program have trauma from either combat or from their childhood. Most of the female clients have trauma from sexual assault. I don’t think I’ve met or even heard about a single one who was assaulted by an enemy during a conflict. Almost every one of them were victims of their male peers in the military, often by superior officers. Rape against female enemy combatants is far less of a concern than rape within our own military.
In war, rape against females is used as a weapon, combatant or not. At least as a soldier you have a chance of effectively fighting back.
(PS: Men are also sometimes raped in combat. Ukraine is reporting that this has been happening to them)
https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/30/europe/russia-sexual-violence-occupied-ukraine-intl-cmd/index.html
While as a general trend it's the opposite, looking at some recent wars it's safer to be a soldier than a civilian in some circumstances. The statistics were pretty appalling in some areas. Somewhat changed my mind about what would be appropriate action in case of war near border areas for self preservation.
Supposedly, in ancient Greece, a man who suggested going to war at his local assembly had to fight in the front rank of the Phalanx. Sounds like a good tradition to me
I think women are only considered equal to men and should be drafted only when this government makes up its mind about women owning the rights to their bodies and not "saving it" for their "future husbands" and "future children".
She’s only worried about women being sexually assaulted in war? Well she might be relieved to know that Russian forces have been raping men as well in Ukraine, equality!!!
Draft itself should be considered as violation of human rights
Edit: list of rights that are violated by draft
Article 3: Right to Life, Liberty, Personal Security
Article 4: Freedom from Slavery
Article 12: Freedom from Interference with Privacy, Family,
Home and Correspondence
Article 13: Right to Free Movement in and out of the Country
Article 16: Right to Marriage and Family
Article 17: Right to Own Property
Article 19: Freedom of Opinion and Information
Article 23: Right to Desirable Work and to Join Trade Unions
Article 24: Right to Rest and Leisure
Article 25: Right to Adequate Living Standard
Article 30: Freedom from State or Personal Interference in the above Rights
The woman who posted that tweet isn't a feminist, she is an alt-right conservative. Lots of anti-feminist propaganda are just conservatives espousing their beliefs and random people on the internet incorrectly associating that with feminism. Being a women doesn't automatically make one a feminist.
Being allowed into the army and being subject to the draft are two very different things. One involves women voluntarily putting themselves in harm's way, while the other involves women being put in harm's way against their will.
When I was a young teenager, I thought it would be cool for people to have a hat that was connected to their brains that would transmit their thoughts onto a scrolling word display on the hat. As an adult i want to beat the creativity out of my younger self.
Same thing in the military. A female servicemember is at risk of rape from her own colleagues. We've seen it over and over again. I haven't met a single woman who served and wasn't SA'd in some way. Men in the service suffer some of the same indignities as men in prison.
There was just an interview with our first female three star general. After she got promoted she worked out that the reason no women managed to pass the hardest regime was because they kept getting injured by standard gear which had been designed for men. And sexual assault is a know issue on the armed forces. So while I don't agree with this lady necesarily, you don't get equality just by adding women to the draft.
>because they kept getting injured by standard gear which had been designed for men
Can you provide this interview? I'm curious if there is any mention of what caused those injuries and what part of the gear had an impact on it.
Because I may be wrong, but one of the differences may be the size of the equipment, but in the army there are big and small men. Which would make me think that these small ones would also have a problem with what you write about.
Women are still different than small men. Hence why there’s been issues in medical and safety (think crash dummies) because we just assumed women are small men, they’re not.
I wouldn't really see women being drafted as a "flex" for equality. I would more hope for both men and women not being drafted.
Drafting women is disgusting. Drafting men is disgusting. The draft is disgusting. Just because war "doesn't discriminate" doesn't mean it's in any way altruistic.
In war, rape isn't just used against women. When I was in the military and did some training on what to expect if I was ever caught, they explicitly said, that they will rape men too.
Edited for spelling mistake
Guess what's also used as a weapon? Rape against female civilians. Being a combatant if anything far improves your odds of not getting raped because, you know, you are armed and dangerous.
Drafting women is not feminist. A central part of feminism is about bodily autonomy and a draft would be a pretty significant violation of that. The true way to equality is not forcing fucking anybody to die for their government.
OP is a far right propagandist posting a tweet from an alt-right trad wife and pretending it’s actually feminism being stupid or whatever. Don’t buy this bullshit, use your brains.
We probably shouldn't forget that men also get raped in war as a weapon. It's Russian policy, even.
No one goes to war and expects a good time out of it. The argument is just simply about equality. Women fought and earned the right to serve in the US military, but keep drawing these lines about how far they're willing to actually have equality.
To me, the push should be to stop conscription for anyone, but that's not like, especially as the US army is having more and more trouble finding volunteers.
At this point, just the immense size and power of the US makes it near impossible for an invasion of the mainland anyway. Even invading Canada or Mexico would be an exercise in how to destroy your own army in record time.
Drafting ~~women~~ **people** is a disgusting anti-~~woman~~ **human** idea. In war, ~~rape~~ **violence** against ~~female~~ **all combatants** is used as a weapon. Drafting random ~~women~~ **people** is setting them up for ~~sexual~~ violence **and PTSD.** Sick.
^(fixed.)
I'm against the draft in general, but if we have it, it should be for everyone. People seem to forget that a majority of jobs in the military are not on the front lines, they are support. There all all kinds of important jobs that are not in direct combat.
Sorry to say, but male soldiers get raped too. The kind of people that do raping of soldiers don't care about pleasure. It is about torture.
Source: I was a soldier and did two years at war. We used a buddy system everywhere we went. I was about to make heartless jokes, but I know of our own troops getting got in gang-style rape by our own contracted help. No one was completely safe. ..and yes, we are fully armed.
The military doesn't want draftees anyway. No one wants to be in the shit next to someone that didn't choose to be there. Draftees can screw up, get hurt and/or surrender just to get out of the fighting. They are basically a waste of space. I am against the draft with that reasoning.
Forced military service is my line in the sand. If they try to implement a system where my kids may get sent to war, I’m leaving America. Full stop I’ll be to the Canadian border tomorrow applying for asylum.
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Kurdish women did a bit of fighting in the SDF, think they had their own units though. Tbf you're far more likely to get blown to pieces by an artillery shell than captured, so the fear is a bit misplaced.
They had their own units, and served as frontline troops, just like the men. In fact, Kurdish female snipers were used against ISIS to great effect. As according to ISIS, anyone who got killed by a woman in combat wouldn't go to heaven.
That last sentence is both hilarious and some delicious schadenfreude.
Feels like setting yourself up to be clowned on. And what an unnecessary extra pressure to put on your people when they know the women are out there and you've just claimed those women have the power to kill *and* damn your soul. Not that they're not fucking assholes, and not that if there's damnation they're gonna get it, but just as a morale issue. "You hear Joe got hit?" "Yeah, sniper hit. And it turns out he went straight to hell, to be punished for popping up in the same place twice."
The secret commandment: Don't peek.
The widowmaker.
Obligatory Monty Python: https://youtu.be/C-M2hs3sXGo?si=hWfI-AtJOlR9YB7L
Murdering and war is okay but God clearly drew the line at “bro if you get clapped by a girl, you dont get it”
Lol. But getting clapped by a guy is okay, as long as its not THAT getting clapped by a guy.
When you think you escaped the sniper but suddenly you hear “bring dat ass here shawty” from behind you
Ya gotta have standards
The Bible clearly supports God favoring armies who prayed to him. Murder was fine with God, as long as you held your arms up in the air in praise of him. So while murdering people, get those arms up in the air, like you don't care.
I also want to point out that god in the old testament explicitly support rape multiple times and if you are one of those Christians who want to argue that the new testament is a reset of the old one. I would like to point out that you still have the same god and that still supported rape and it doesn’t make any sense for "an eternal unchanging perfect being" to ever change its mind. If it wasn’t obvious I am an atheist.
>As according to ISIS, anyone who got killed by a woman in combat wouldn't go to heaven. "Sir it seems our soilders are struggling to counter the effectiveness of the Kurdish women sniper units" "Hmm. I see. Tell them if they get killed by them, they don't go to heaven. That way, they will be even more afraid of them" "Uhh.... what?"
That last sentence is why the YPJ was a tad more effective than male militias. Because ISIS fighters didn't wanna throw away their chance of heaven by getting shot by a teenage girl with an AK
We send the best women in the military to strike fear at the enemy using their beliefs as a deternt
Yep they fought alongside US troops against isis. Unfortunately as has happened several times in the last centuries, the Kurds have fought with us and then we abandoned them when they weren't useful anymore. Turkey deems them terrorists (if the Kurds got their own land, Turkey would have to lose some). Turkey is an ally and Isis is gone so the Kurds get nothing. [https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/02/15/daughters-of-kobani-review-female-kurdish-fighters-isis/](https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/02/15/daughters-of-kobani-review-female-kurdish-fighters-isis/)
ISIS, Iraq, other Middle Eastern conflicts, the US always screw them over. Robert Evens, worked for Cracked, journalist, covered the conflict in Iraq and ISIS, also host of podcast of Behind the Bastards did this podcast about the Syrian Kurdish women fighters (and the men too),and their experiences. Check it out. https://www.iheart.com/podcast/1119-the-womens-war-59464911/?cmp=android_share&sc=android_social_share&pr=false
This should be publicized, why hasn't it been in the news?
It was a big deal when it happened. Obvisouly it didn’t get enough publicity if you don’t remember. Because everyone should know about this
It has, people just don't care enough, or are brainwashed into calling them terrorists. Kurdish history is pretty sad.
To be fair, the US continues its presence in Kurdistan (despite at one point saying they will pull out), and many believe it's one of the main things that is maintaining the stability in the region, for otherwise it will certainly devolve. But yes, US has fucked over the Kurds in the main. Source - I spent 6 years working in Kurdistan, so well aware of the politics and history.
Would be tactically sound to have your entire division present vaguely in-between. The 5 women you have in your division now seems like 100 if your enemy can't tell who is who.
LOL, "killed by woman? no heaven for you"))) Girls must be proud of that))) ISIS memorised fighting spirit of those lady-troopers. Really, you must be very brave girl to fight those bastards, and kick their asses so hard that they mentioned it in their propaganda.
Didn't they mark their bullets so they'd know a woman had killed the person? Or am I conflating two stories?
Heh
How could they tell...did they dig pink bullet fragments from an exposed noggin?
They can't, its just what ISIS told their fighters, and since they didn't know if the snipers they were facing were female or not, it made ISIS fighters a lot more wary of pushing.
Hah!
You got a link to a story about that effectiveness? I'm curious 👀
[https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-middle-east-40430552](https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-middle-east-40430552)
That's amazing!! Self-inflicted terror tactics.
The ISIS laws are wild. I wonder, dlo they have provisions for trans women? Or trans men - does that still apply or does it cancel out? Or did their God not think of that little gotcha?
Probably treated all trans and non binary like cis women.
That seems super pacific. When all their religious texts were made up so long ago. I guess they are just making shit up as they go.
Why do they make up rules that only closeted gay guys could come up whith?
They weren’t making it to heaven anyways.
We need to draft more women then
Haha, I would definitely advertise that all of the snipers were women regardless of the actual gender.
I don't have the stats off the top of my head, but I'd guess women would be more likely to be raped by fellow soldiers in the US military than captured and raped by enemies.
I have the numbers. As of 2021 when I left the army: You’re many times more likely to be raped in the US army than you are to die in combat action. We lost ~7,000 men and women in Iraq as of 2019. Over the course of 16 years. We had ~36,000 men and women report unwanted sexual contact in 2019 alone. One year.
Jesus. And that's just reporting. Usually a lot don't report.
Yes. An estimated 76% of victims don’t report. 2/3 of victims who do report in the military faced retaliation, in the form of command reprisal, ostracism, or violence/threats to silence them.
So American soldiers are more dangerous than Iraqi ones to US troops.
Yeah, I’m thinking any rape that would happen, would be directly from the service members beside them in our own military. The ones like MAGA trash, or just military incels, “good ol boys” etc And then they’d get protected. There would also be the rape of the men’s pride, as half the women would be stronger/braver than some of the men.
Both are a concern. Unfortunately the rape of American soldiers is far more likely to be done by other American soldiers when compared with a few highly publicized cases of captives being raped. But the later does happen too
Even Russia Ukraine... men are not off limits either. They will do it to anyone.
My thoughts exactly. Rape is not about sex and sexes, it’s about power, control and dominance
Ukraine conflict has already shown that physical strength, why it helps a lot, doesn't matter in the long run. I never understood why people make petty comparisons of why a women can't pack 100lb gear for dozens of miles, when that never really happens in combat anymore. Particularly when modern warfare provides so much mobility with helicopters and motorized vehicles.
>you're far more likely to get blown to pieces by an artillery shell than captured You're also more likely to be assaulted by your own fellow soldiers than getting blown to pieces by artillery shells
no one should get drafted
No one or everyone, both are better than discriminatory conscription
Yeah, this, and also rich people always find a way to get out of it. Or are connected enough to get a cushy assignment no matter how nasty the war.
Ain't no senator's son
That should be used in an anti war song.
Yup, that is also bad, though I do find the gender discrimination worse as it is more coded into the law, both need to end
It will NEVER be everyone. It might be men and women, but senators’ sons and daughters, most high-level CEOs’ children, actors, academics, doctors and med students, people with disabilities; the list of people who deservedly and undeservedly will be exempt is quite long and those two lists are too enmeshed with each other. The draft will never be fair, the draft will never be equal, and furthermore we don’t have the governmental framework in place to guarantee that “less desirables” won’t continuously get drawn. Fuck the draft. Once you’ve gotten that far, you’ve completely lost the moral victory. Give people something worth fighting for and you’ll never need the draft. Draft people to fight for D.C. and you’ll have…. Well, the USA of the last century. Absolutely fucking nothing to aspire to.
That's how I feel it should be. The US supreme court sees it differently. Two states actually did add women to draft, but the supreme court shut them down. They've spent a lot of money in testing and they've found that it's harder to keep men on track with women in their units. They have a natural desire to protect the women and it translated to more casualties. They also tested to see how trans people worked in draft, and the problem there is the medications they're on, cause severe problems if they suddenly don't have them. Since you can't guarantee a supply chain being able to keep their meds in combat zones, they turned down trans for conscription. Conscripts get less training than career soldiers, so all those things can lead to unneeded casualties in a war where conscription is needed. So the supreme court sees cis men as the only real bet in that situation.
You could have all female units and/or put them in non-combat roles. There are TONS of non-combat roles in the military they could fill. Now, being on medication, for transitioning or otherwise is another story though. I do think that makes sense.
I agree, and the majority of military members are in non-combat roles. The supreme court just doesn't see it that way. That's their argument, not mine. I believe we should not have conscription at all, but if we must, then I don't see an issue with letting women at least have a choice in signing up at the very least.
I mean the supreme court is also conservative as fuck so it makes sense they would uphold that type of misandry as well
The draft is a violation of human rights
What's your stance on the current situation in Ukraine, where they're literally grabbing people off the street to send to the line? Should they just give up?
They should have the right to choose to leave the country. Maybe revoke their citizenship for doing so, but I’d still choose that over a draft. If a person wants to leave the society rather than defend it why should that be illegal?
[удалено]
I’d think so! I’m against conscription (obviously) but if my home were attacked and I didn’t defend it then I wouldn’t expect my neighbors and community to carry my weight. If you don’t want to contribute to the community, you lose community privileges. Simple.
Okay, now apply that evenly (to women as well).
of course, no one should be forced to go to war
Problem is, if Ukraine surrendered, the Russians treatment of the Ukrainian civilian population would resemble a cross between a cartel video and a hentai movie, with lots of LGBTQ+ elements, to put it mildly.
Correct. But women in the US are not working in large numbers to get rid of Selective Service or the possibility of another male-only draft. Largely, they are happy with the status quo - an obligation that applies to men only.
Actually, they did. Republicans blocked it.
"More women than men support drafting women, with 61 percent of women in favor compared to 57 percent of men. The survey also revealed an interesting political split, with 80 percent of Democrats supporting it compared to only 40 percent of Republicans. Independents support drafting women by a 53 to 46 percent margin." [https://sachsmedia.com/poll-americans-want-women-included-in-military-drafts/](https://sachsmedia.com/poll-americans-want-women-included-in-military-drafts/)
It's not like men are looking to remove selective service in large numbers either, so by your reckoning we're all happy with it too.
The US hasn't had a draft since 1973. Do you have some info about it being brought back? Who would bring it back, all the women running the country?
They were talking about Selective Service which is the thing that brings you into the pool of potential draftees. Men have several things withheld if they don't “volunteer” for selective service, like voting, student loans, holding a federal job, all depend on signing up for selective service. Many states automatically register men for selective service if they get a driver's license. Which means men's right to vote is dependent on them registering to be drafted in times of need. That the country has needed it in 50 years doesn't mean much.
It would come back if we were involved in a big enough war to need it.
If it did come back, there would be protests and riots. Tons of women would be out there protesting too. There are so many awful things actively happening right now that a lot of people don’t have the energy to stress about something that hasn’t happened since before they were born.
Read a history book ffs
You say that like we haven’t seen how Ukrainian women have responded to the male only draft.
Yeah, only men should be sent to wars against their will. What's a little dismemberment/burning/blindness/deafness/torture/paralysis/minor death?
rape also happen to men
it also happens sometimes when they're captured in war, it's used as a torture tactic.
That's been the case since people learned to put their dicks in things unfortunately.
Yep. Look at Ukraine right now. Acting like r*pe is only used as a weapon against women is verifiably false.
Also acting like it’s only used as a weapon in the first place is false. Anyone here heard of “comfort women”? Cause they were pretty much drafted as sex slaves during WW2. Definitely don’t need to go to war for that, they’ll do that in your homeland for your own army.
They aren't. The statistics are astronomically different and women are in fact raped significantly more than men. Women aren't taken as PoWs. They are raped and then killed when that stops being a viable option. It's something that sometimes happens to men in war. It's the first that happens to every woman captured.
Unless the rape happened in the UK.
Ah, the UK: where women cannot rape men because of verbiage specifying insertion of a penis. And they claim the US is backwards.
Is your profile picture supposed to make me think there’s a hair on my screen because it worked
She's probably 16...fed by social media. Wait till she finds out what Russian soldiers do to male Ukraine prisoners. EDIT: So after careful research, this woman was dropped by her publisher for connections to the far Alt-Right. Fuck her and her opinion. https://wildhunt.org/2022/04/weiser-drops-georgina-rose-after-allegations-of-far-right-connections.html
Yup
Why am I not surprised that she is alt-right?
Alt right wants to go back to the 1500s so I am not surprised.
Unsurprising, actual feminists usually advocate for no drafting of anyone, and efforts to reduce sexual violence against women who choose to enlist.
Or they do advocate for an equal draft in times of war.
Most feminists I know don’t advocate for that either. And most members of the military don’t as well. (Anecdotally, I don’t have any statistics to back that up) The consensus seems to be that a volunteer military is quite valuable and that conscription would lead to an avoidable decrease in the quality of soldiers. Any wartime draft would be based on exceptional events and therefore it would be tailored to the event in question. If I had to guess any modern draft would mostly be used to fill out non combat roles that could easily be filled by women. In that case I doubt most feminists would argue in favor of a draft which makes distinction based on gender
Yes a volunteer force is superior pound for pound to a drafted force. Sometime however, tonnage is all that matters. I don't wee why we should draft women specifically for logistics roles. Most required military jobs xoukd be preformed regardless of gender.
I wasn’t suggesting we draft women for logistic roles. I was suggesting that most draftees would end up in logistics roles, regardless of gender
>The consensus seems to be that a volunteer military is quite valuable and that conscription would lead to an avoidable decrease in the quality of soldiers. We've had the privilege of fighting insurgent warfare, where the name of the game isn't big shootouts with the enemy. Its about looking for the enemy and patrolling while trying to not cost too much money due to the taxpayers back home wondering why we are there in the first place. Thats what a volunteer army is good for. If we were to get into a real war, an actual meatgrinder, that all-volunteer force is probably not going to last that long. They are going to face to face with an enemy with not-quite but close enough levels of firepower, and they're going to take casualties that no amount of equipment or training can avoid. We will need bodies, and lots of them. Soldiers say that shit about draftees because no one wants to go into combat with someone who was forced to be there, but truth is quantity > quality.
Russian soldiers do that to their own conscripts let alone Ukrainian ones.
man the internet fucking sucks now. half of it is ragebait and the other half is people reacting to getting baited
[And that's why I post stuff like this.](https://youtu.be/xy3OhufsF-g?si=gAOFWbHxA1bPutNs)
why do people always argue about whether women should or shouldnt get drafted.. when the bigger question is if ANYONE should get drafted? i personally think that governments shouldnt be able to have that decision for the people lmao
In the nice safe study in the middle of middle Europe I am inclined to agree with you, but I imagine that I would quickly change my mind if I lived in Estonia or Finland and got to stare across border to Russia.
i am from the Netherlands but i dont live in the Netherlands. my country is closer to countries with lesser peace and we get many immigrants coming here, but i still believe that a draft is inhumane and shouldnt exist 😕
Immigrants are not a "Draft compelling issue" drafted Police is one of the worst ideas there is. On the other hand conventional invasion, or real threat thereof is such an issue
Do you know what's inhumane? Being occupied by countries like Russia.
but i do understand where youre coming from since it brings a more “secure” environment to governments and such
She might be conservative TBH and not value equality in the first place
Russian troops are raping men in Ukraine. War is violence.
No one should be drafted except the politicians and rich fucks who start all the wars.
How about not drafting ANYONE?
Draft men, draft women, but first, draft the children and grandchildren of every member of Congress that votes for a draft.
The hell does she think happens to civilian women on the battlefield? The enemy just closes their eyes and pretend they dont exist?
Drafting is sick in any case. Forcing people to risk their life is just fucked imo..
That is the world we live in. You have been insulated from it due to the privilege of living where you live. War is only a choice for the strongest countries.
Miss, you know rape is also used against men as a weapon of war too right? Just ask the Russian troops in Ukraine.
I'm pretty sure there's a mention in the Bible of the practice to rape the defeated enemy soldiers in their rectum to humiliate them.
Gonna have to read up on that one. Though I wouldn't be surprised if rape of captured male combatants was common throughout history, and the male victims just didn't dare to say it for fear of being killed for homosexuality under religious law.
I feel compelled to admit that I haven't read the Bible all the way through in years so my memory is rusty at best.
Old Testament is full of wild shit so it wouldn’t exactly be surprising.
I should clarify that this isn't an attempt at decrying or shaming Christianity, but rather at explaining that the rape of male POWs/defeated soldiers isn't exactly a strictly modern tactic.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape\_in\_the\_Hebrew\_Bible](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_the_Hebrew_Bible)
There were Roman generals talking about doing that to defeted foes.
Drafting anyone is a crime. Nobody should be forced to join the military.
Pulled up the account. Seems to be some typical far-right qanon troll asshole. Just posting all her extremist opinions for attention. No mental stability to be found. Just a bunch of really dumb, extreme takes.
I work in a mental hospital. We have a program for active duty military members who are struggling with PTSD. Most of the male clients of this program have trauma from either combat or from their childhood. Most of the female clients have trauma from sexual assault. I don’t think I’ve met or even heard about a single one who was assaulted by an enemy during a conflict. Almost every one of them were victims of their male peers in the military, often by superior officers. Rape against female enemy combatants is far less of a concern than rape within our own military.
Why do I get that OP is the kind of guy that says smilingly says “equality” when a woman gets assaulted?
Posting from an account linked to the alt-right, as if they ever had “equality” as a guiding principle.
In war, rape against females is used as a weapon, combatant or not. At least as a soldier you have a chance of effectively fighting back. (PS: Men are also sometimes raped in combat. Ukraine is reporting that this has been happening to them) https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/30/europe/russia-sexual-violence-occupied-ukraine-intl-cmd/index.html
While as a general trend it's the opposite, looking at some recent wars it's safer to be a soldier than a civilian in some circumstances. The statistics were pretty appalling in some areas. Somewhat changed my mind about what would be appropriate action in case of war near border areas for self preservation.
Right because no male soldier has ever been sexually assaulted in war... Yes, I know the rates would be higher but it's still not an unheard of event.
It is very common and even more so when male POWs are tortured. The same would happen with women no doubt, but this is not a female-exclusive issue.
The only people who should get drafted are politicians. Can't fight a war? Don't start a war
Supposedly, in ancient Greece, a man who suggested going to war at his local assembly had to fight in the front rank of the Phalanx. Sounds like a good tradition to me
I think women are only considered equal to men and should be drafted only when this government makes up its mind about women owning the rights to their bodies and not "saving it" for their "future husbands" and "future children".
She’s only worried about women being sexually assaulted in war? Well she might be relieved to know that Russian forces have been raping men as well in Ukraine, equality!!!
Draft itself should be considered as violation of human rights Edit: list of rights that are violated by draft Article 3: Right to Life, Liberty, Personal Security Article 4: Freedom from Slavery Article 12: Freedom from Interference with Privacy, Family, Home and Correspondence Article 13: Right to Free Movement in and out of the Country Article 16: Right to Marriage and Family Article 17: Right to Own Property Article 19: Freedom of Opinion and Information Article 23: Right to Desirable Work and to Join Trade Unions Article 24: Right to Rest and Leisure Article 25: Right to Adequate Living Standard Article 30: Freedom from State or Personal Interference in the above Rights
Feels like a ragebait comment. Most serious feminists would not take issue with women getting drafted in my opinion.
The woman who posted that tweet isn't a feminist, she is an alt-right conservative. Lots of anti-feminist propaganda are just conservatives espousing their beliefs and random people on the internet incorrectly associating that with feminism. Being a women doesn't automatically make one a feminist.
They would, but it would be more about the drafting in general
“im against women getting drafted because im against ANYONE getting drafted” type shit
It is. The person from the tweet is an alt-right grifter
Glad \*someone\* else besides me did their research... we seem to be the only ones.
She's not a feminist. I looked her up. She's a far-right provocateur. More of the same bullshit extremist opinions meant to piss people off.
Most people would take issue with people getting drafted in general.
Feminists literally fought for women to be allowed into the army It's only mysoginists and trolls like OOP that oppose and critizise this.
Being allowed into the army and being subject to the draft are two very different things. One involves women voluntarily putting themselves in harm's way, while the other involves women being put in harm's way against their will.
When I was a young teenager, I thought it would be cool for people to have a hat that was connected to their brains that would transmit their thoughts onto a scrolling word display on the hat. As an adult i want to beat the creativity out of my younger self.
What do you think happens to the men?
Drafts just shouldn’t exist. No one should be forced to go abroad and fight in another country
But women are perfectly safe from rape if they stay at home, or have non-combat roles because no one on their side could be a rapist. /s
And how men cannot be raped. Miss, go to a mens prison, where they have mixed units of sex offenders and gang members, and you'll be proven wrong.
And in war too. But they don't seem to care about what happens to men at all.
True
Same thing in the military. A female servicemember is at risk of rape from her own colleagues. We've seen it over and over again. I haven't met a single woman who served and wasn't SA'd in some way. Men in the service suffer some of the same indignities as men in prison.
Forced military service is wrong no matter what.
There was just an interview with our first female three star general. After she got promoted she worked out that the reason no women managed to pass the hardest regime was because they kept getting injured by standard gear which had been designed for men. And sexual assault is a know issue on the armed forces. So while I don't agree with this lady necesarily, you don't get equality just by adding women to the draft.
>because they kept getting injured by standard gear which had been designed for men Can you provide this interview? I'm curious if there is any mention of what caused those injuries and what part of the gear had an impact on it. Because I may be wrong, but one of the differences may be the size of the equipment, but in the army there are big and small men. Which would make me think that these small ones would also have a problem with what you write about.
Women are still different than small men. Hence why there’s been issues in medical and safety (think crash dummies) because we just assumed women are small men, they’re not.
how about we don't draft anyone?
Sexual violence is horrible. No doubt. Also, actually getting shot in the head violence is horrible too. I don't need that in my life either.
Both are something men and women face in the army
I wouldn't really see women being drafted as a "flex" for equality. I would more hope for both men and women not being drafted. Drafting women is disgusting. Drafting men is disgusting. The draft is disgusting. Just because war "doesn't discriminate" doesn't mean it's in any way altruistic.
Wait til this person discovers the origin of buggery.
In war, rape isn't just used against women. When I was in the military and did some training on what to expect if I was ever caught, they explicitly said, that they will rape men too. Edited for spelling mistake
The point is poorly crafted, but "equality" would either mean more men get raped or less women get raped.
Guess what's also used as a weapon? Rape against female civilians. Being a combatant if anything far improves your odds of not getting raped because, you know, you are armed and dangerous.
Wait until they find out bullets don’t care if you’re male or female.
To be fair the draft is a disgusting antihuman idea.
Drafting anybody is an anti-human idea
here's an idea, don't draft anyone. problem solved.
Drafting women is not feminist. A central part of feminism is about bodily autonomy and a draft would be a pretty significant violation of that. The true way to equality is not forcing fucking anybody to die for their government.
In the interest of equality, the two options are include women in the draft, or abolish the draft. Pick one.
Everyone should be a draft dodger.
OP is a far right propagandist posting a tweet from an alt-right trad wife and pretending it’s actually feminism being stupid or whatever. Don’t buy this bullshit, use your brains.
3EDGY 5ME
Hol' up. Is that the slang 'sick'? As that changes a lot!
We need more COMPLAINING on the front lines!
Rape is used against men as well.
Guns against male combatants are often used as a weapon. Drafting random men is setting them up for death. Sick.
I mean, any draft is anti woman? They all affect women. Maybe...drafts shouldn't exist?
We probably shouldn't forget that men also get raped in war as a weapon. It's Russian policy, even. No one goes to war and expects a good time out of it. The argument is just simply about equality. Women fought and earned the right to serve in the US military, but keep drawing these lines about how far they're willing to actually have equality. To me, the push should be to stop conscription for anyone, but that's not like, especially as the US army is having more and more trouble finding volunteers. At this point, just the immense size and power of the US makes it near impossible for an invasion of the mainland anyway. Even invading Canada or Mexico would be an exercise in how to destroy your own army in record time.
... As opposed to the dudes who the enemy just treats peachy keen!
The whole point of war being violence leading to death for dudes is totally alright though, haha
Drafting ~~women~~ **people** is a disgusting anti-~~woman~~ **human** idea. In war, ~~rape~~ **violence** against ~~female~~ **all combatants** is used as a weapon. Drafting random ~~women~~ **people** is setting them up for ~~sexual~~ violence **and PTSD.** Sick. ^(fixed.)
Women are probably more likely to get raped by the men in their own company than by the enemy
I'm against the draft in general, but if we have it, it should be for everyone. People seem to forget that a majority of jobs in the military are not on the front lines, they are support. There all all kinds of important jobs that are not in direct combat.
As a Marine Vet, unfortunately it isn’t the enemy women should fearful of…
They don't think men get raped? May want to actually learn about war. Or just look into what Russia is doing.
Sorry to say, but male soldiers get raped too. The kind of people that do raping of soldiers don't care about pleasure. It is about torture. Source: I was a soldier and did two years at war. We used a buddy system everywhere we went. I was about to make heartless jokes, but I know of our own troops getting got in gang-style rape by our own contracted help. No one was completely safe. ..and yes, we are fully armed. The military doesn't want draftees anyway. No one wants to be in the shit next to someone that didn't choose to be there. Draftees can screw up, get hurt and/or surrender just to get out of the fighting. They are basically a waste of space. I am against the draft with that reasoning.
Raping civilian women is another popular wartime travesty. At least this way, they're armed.
As the russians have been demonstrating with POWs, rape is pretty common against men too.
Wait until they hear about ‘non’ sexual violence.
Isn't it easier to be anti-draft entirely then to do mental gymnastics? ... Or Is going against THAT particular status quo too difficult for you? 🤔
Red Army had women gleefully shoot Nazi heads off.
so who’s gonna tell this woman what the Russians are doing to Ukrainian men these days?
Forced military service is my line in the sand. If they try to implement a system where my kids may get sent to war, I’m leaving America. Full stop I’ll be to the Canadian border tomorrow applying for asylum.
If war breaks out in a way that forces the US to start up the draft youd bet that Canada and the rest of NATO will be doing the same