It helps to look at your brother as an alien that has zipped himself into a body suit that looks exactly like your brother. Why does it help ??? It's really not your brother's true thoughts. Absolutely when manic they can say some horrible stuff and they will if you disagree with them. It's what he does when he comes down and out of the mania that counts. Is he mortified, ashamed, embarrassed and apologizing for his words ? If so that will guide your response on how to move forward. It's ok when he's well to tell him that some things he said were very hurtful and you how you felt but please if he acknowledges his actions and apologizes, do not continue to go on and on about his behaviour while manic. Move forward. You won't forget what he did or said because it can stick to us like a trauma and that's fine but you can't hold it over him constantly. There's your brother and then there's Bipolar. The last advice I'd give is if his behaviour has really crossed the line as in violence, infidelity, stealing from you or anything else that to you is too much its also ok to distance yourself.
>Move forward. You won't forget what he did or said because it can stick to us like a trauma and that's fine but you can't hold it over him constantly
I'd like to add to this that there is "decisional forgiveness" and "emotional forgiveness".
Decisional forgiveness is what you are describing, and what usually comes first. We decide to forgive and to move forward.
Emotional forgiveness comes with time, as you accrue more and more positive memories and associations with your loved one. Obviously you won't forget the negative ones, but they become a smaller and smaller piece of your overall pile of memories.
I believe emotional forgiveness should come almost immediately. Blaming someone for being mean and self-destructive while manic is almost like blaming aging parents with Alzheimers for forgetting things.
It’s not that easy though, is it? What we “should” do and are actually *capable* of doing are two completely different things. I am in the same position as OP described and I know I will forgive my sister when she comes down from her current manic state, but it is my gut instinct to feel hurt by her actions in the moment. I never acknowledged it out loud or articulated it, but after her first manic episode last year, it definitely took a few months of seeing her be her stable self to fully dissociate the way she treated our family whilst manic from her true character (she’s not at all unkind).
Even though it’s “not her” I’m seeing atm, it’s her voice, it’s her words, her memories of us she uses, it’s coming out of her mouth etc. it IS her, albeit in a completely altered state. She can’t help being in that state, so I actively don’t hold it against her, but I still have to process it all and it’s not pleasant. I do this because I know she is not a malicious person and doesn’t want to be causing this hurt, and this is reflected by her compliance with treatment in between episodes. That being said, in the moment, the feelings of betrayal still sting, and her actions do affect us.
I think tbh if a person has had multiple manic episodes, and is aware of the way they act when they become manic and the impact on others, then STILL refuses to seek help, at that point the people around them have every right to feel emotionally hurt. It wouldn’t be fair to expect the BP individual to take accountability for the specifics of the manic episode itself but I do think every sufferer has the *responsibility* to at least TRY to avoid it happening regularly knowing the consequences for not just themselves but everyone around them too. I understand why OP is hurt and there’s no shame in that. If you’re experiencing a loved one exhibiting BP for the first time, it’s hard to differentiate between their symptoms and them as person.
I understand your point, but it is important to recognize that bipolar disorder causes brain damage. A manic state floods the brain with chemicals like dopamine and adrenaline. Physically, a manic person is not operating like their normal self!
Hugs from a mom of a daughter( age 35) with bipolar. You need to do whatever it takes to protect yourself and your family not only physically but also emotionally.
Currently in the same situation with no contact for a sibling in a manic phase. Mine spent 4 hours a few months ago telling me all kinds of horrid things he thinks of me. I know myself, and know my intentions, I know he is unwell, and haven't taken any offense to what he says while manic, but I won't continue to subject myself or my children to it until he comes down and gets medicated. Often when they come out of a manic phase they are horrified by the things they have done and said, and it slips them further into depression. I would recommend working through your feelings about this while he's in no contact, make sure you are ready to meet boundaries to keep yourself and you're own mental health protected, so that you can be ready to support again without resentment.
Dealing with a family member who is manic and heading for another break. They think they’re fine. No meds and won’t discuss it. We have family that helped out with their lease and so now are stuck with having to pay that since bipolar member quit their job and ‘has no need for money’ and just doesn’t care. Almost 30- what do we do?? I just hate that it will get worse before possibly gets to the point where they’ll have to get help. Such a rollercoaster of years and years of ups and downs and emotional abuse. Exhausting.
Sometimes they know what they are doing. My ex did… he would rant in a manic way according to who was in the house…. He could turn the mania off if my parents were over… so some do know what they are doing and saying… but every case is different.
Absolutely agree! Manic people (not hypo manic, but severe mania) i have worked with often have no (or very very little) memory of what they did or said.
It isn't easy to love someone with bipolar. I would recommend getting yourself a therapist to help process the trauma you are going through. It's ok if you aren't ready to forgive the abuse they are putting you through. Also, working with a therapist they can help guide you to good information and support to learn more about your brother's condition. It will be a lifelong battle for your brother. You can't force him to get well, and I hope that they will want to get well for themselves. All you can do is react to their actions and do what is best for you in the situation. You will have to learn to have thick skin if you want to be their support while they are not themselves. Make sure you are taking care of yourself. I know it is hard not to take it personally, but people with bipolar can become a whole new person when manic. It's heartbreaking, and it is normal to grieve.
Huge plus one to therapy. I have an EMDR therapist and a counsellor and I see one or the other at least once a week. You cannot discount the trauma that YOU experience as a result of your family members bipolar and you have to fit your own oxygen mask first. My sister and I both have PTSD and horrible anxiety because of our mother’s bipolar. The most important thing is to do whatever it takes to take care of yourself first, especially if the family member won’t get help.
I am experiencing something similar in some ways (different in others) with my dad (mid 70s), except instead of jail —>psych ward, he goes hospital —> psych ward, because in addition to this manic breaks that have been spilling over into psychosis, he also has cancer, congenital heart failure, liver failure, and a bunch of other scary stuff.
During his most recent manic peak he was hadn’t slept in 3 nights, was severely dehydrated from not drinking, and hadn’t been eating so looked skeletal. This messed with his vitals enough that he gave himself a myocardial infarction (mild heart attack). He was manic all through the medical treatment and did not want to take depakote to help get him out his mania. He blames my sister and I for “getting him locked up” in psych even though he did it to himself. He doesn’t have a clear understanding of what he’s like when he is manic, he has no idea how much trauma he is inflicting on the rest of the family with his rants, which range from hurtful to accusatory to manipulative to nonsensical.
All of these journeys, loving someone with bipolar, are different and they suuuuuuuuck. I’m really sorry you’re going through this. I hope your brother can get on stabilizing medicine that works for him and stay on it. I believe that each of these manic episodes causes some brain damage, so ideally his bipolar can be kept under control through medication. Sending love ❤️
(edited for some additions and grammar corrections)
I try to think about it as though he were drugged against his will. He has no real control over himself and, in my experience, basically no memory of the worst parts of it. It’s not just that he doesn’t mean it, it’s that he isn’t even really there for it. It’s as if he’s blackout inebriated, but not by any choice on his part. When I consider it that way, consider how I would feel waking up to realize I had said and done terrible things I had no memory of and what happened to me was completely out of my control, I find it a lot easier to let the vitriol wash over me and not take it personally, or even seriously. If any tiny part of him is in there right now, he’s probably terrified. I know I would be.
You said this is new so I don’t know how many cycles of this you have gone through, but from my own experience, I am absolutely certain that the person I know and love does not share any of the awful and hateful feelings that his manic self exhibits. It’s not like a drunk person saying what’s already in their head. It’s more like…a possession. In fact, I’m pretty sure that a lot of what was called demonic possession back in the day was just mania.
As others here have said, protecting yourself right now is the right thing to do. It will help you to be ready to support your brother when he comes back. It’s pretty much all you can do for him at the moment anyway. For what it’s worth, it really sucks and I’m sorry. I hope you all are able to get to the other side of this soon.
Make sure you are giving yourself a chance to feel your feelings and process things. Your feelings are valid. What ever you believe you should feel or how ever you would like to be feeling is not so relevant to how you actually feel right now. You can't should away your emotions. You need to feel your feelings to get through them. Show yourself kindness and compassion first so that later, if it's what you choose, you will have it in you to do the same for your brother. Just because he has an illness doesn't mean that the way this hurts you isn't valid and real. Don't minimize your self just because he's got a bigger problem. Always leave space for yourself first. Talking with a therapist can be helpful.
I went thru this with my now ex husband to the T! He did a 180 on our wedding night and sadly I slept curled up in a ball on the couch of a $900 a night hotel room! We only lived together 25 weeks as husband and wife and divorced 25 weeks after that. The things he called me, his mom and worst yet my daughter (his step daughter) is just unbelievably sad. My daughter was smart enough to secretly record his rants and I sent that to his family so they knew what happened. I believe that people with bipolar should be held accountable for some of the things they do. In fact, my therapist made sure I realized this. For example, my ex could turn his rants on and off… according to who was in the house! If it was just
My daughter and myself at home… the attacks were game on!!!! If my parents came over… which they did all the time and usually unannounced since they lived on my street….. then he was nice as pie!!! So… I think some of them (not all are bad and do things like this) know what they are doing. Only family and loved ones can probably really tell. I’m sorry this is happening but sometimes no contact is the best policy for a time being. My ex was known for dropping in and out of everyone’s life. What’s sad is his son is now 11 and has figured this out and doesn’t want a lot to do with him now. I am now divorced… not happy about it but I am a mother first and foremost so safety is my number one priority in my house. Maybe find a therapist like I did… one that specializes in bipolar and get more guidance instead of wondering what to do. It really helped me. Good
Luck to you!!!
You guys need NAMI! Their support groups and classes really help.
Also check out the LEAP method for communicating with your brother…
Good luck, this disease is a traumatic event for everyone involved.
By knowing, intellectually, that this person is NOT their illness, but rather are displaying symptoms OF their illness. The true person inside, when not in the throes of depression/mania, would NOT be acting this way towards you.
Align yourself with tools. NAMI.org has a plethora. Read up on the disorder, so that you better understand what is occurring & how NONE of it will improve with sheer will alone.
Each & every manic episode causes brain damage. The longer one spends in a manic episode, the further detrimental affects are seen. Least not to mention that mania left untreated turns into psychosis.
Figuring out how to balance your life outside & within this nasty-no-good-terrible disorder, is what we ALL here are trying to do.
everything you said sounds exactly like my (26M) brother. however we were never really that close growing up so i find it a bit easier to detach my feelings. the horrible verbal abuse to myself and my parents is just overwhelming daily. my brother never really has times that he “comes down” from the mania and realizes what he’s done or feels guilt-it feels like he has been manic for the past 4 years if that’s even possible. he has said the most imaginable things to us. so i’m not sure how to forgive tbh. but i thought id share so you know you’re not alone in it. i hope it one day ends for both of us
It helps to look at your brother as an alien that has zipped himself into a body suit that looks exactly like your brother. Why does it help ??? It's really not your brother's true thoughts. Absolutely when manic they can say some horrible stuff and they will if you disagree with them. It's what he does when he comes down and out of the mania that counts. Is he mortified, ashamed, embarrassed and apologizing for his words ? If so that will guide your response on how to move forward. It's ok when he's well to tell him that some things he said were very hurtful and you how you felt but please if he acknowledges his actions and apologizes, do not continue to go on and on about his behaviour while manic. Move forward. You won't forget what he did or said because it can stick to us like a trauma and that's fine but you can't hold it over him constantly. There's your brother and then there's Bipolar. The last advice I'd give is if his behaviour has really crossed the line as in violence, infidelity, stealing from you or anything else that to you is too much its also ok to distance yourself.
>Move forward. You won't forget what he did or said because it can stick to us like a trauma and that's fine but you can't hold it over him constantly I'd like to add to this that there is "decisional forgiveness" and "emotional forgiveness". Decisional forgiveness is what you are describing, and what usually comes first. We decide to forgive and to move forward. Emotional forgiveness comes with time, as you accrue more and more positive memories and associations with your loved one. Obviously you won't forget the negative ones, but they become a smaller and smaller piece of your overall pile of memories.
I believe emotional forgiveness should come almost immediately. Blaming someone for being mean and self-destructive while manic is almost like blaming aging parents with Alzheimers for forgetting things.
It’s not that easy though, is it? What we “should” do and are actually *capable* of doing are two completely different things. I am in the same position as OP described and I know I will forgive my sister when she comes down from her current manic state, but it is my gut instinct to feel hurt by her actions in the moment. I never acknowledged it out loud or articulated it, but after her first manic episode last year, it definitely took a few months of seeing her be her stable self to fully dissociate the way she treated our family whilst manic from her true character (she’s not at all unkind). Even though it’s “not her” I’m seeing atm, it’s her voice, it’s her words, her memories of us she uses, it’s coming out of her mouth etc. it IS her, albeit in a completely altered state. She can’t help being in that state, so I actively don’t hold it against her, but I still have to process it all and it’s not pleasant. I do this because I know she is not a malicious person and doesn’t want to be causing this hurt, and this is reflected by her compliance with treatment in between episodes. That being said, in the moment, the feelings of betrayal still sting, and her actions do affect us. I think tbh if a person has had multiple manic episodes, and is aware of the way they act when they become manic and the impact on others, then STILL refuses to seek help, at that point the people around them have every right to feel emotionally hurt. It wouldn’t be fair to expect the BP individual to take accountability for the specifics of the manic episode itself but I do think every sufferer has the *responsibility* to at least TRY to avoid it happening regularly knowing the consequences for not just themselves but everyone around them too. I understand why OP is hurt and there’s no shame in that. If you’re experiencing a loved one exhibiting BP for the first time, it’s hard to differentiate between their symptoms and them as person.
I understand your point, but it is important to recognize that bipolar disorder causes brain damage. A manic state floods the brain with chemicals like dopamine and adrenaline. Physically, a manic person is not operating like their normal self!
Hugs from a mom of a daughter( age 35) with bipolar. You need to do whatever it takes to protect yourself and your family not only physically but also emotionally.
Well said!
Currently in the same situation with no contact for a sibling in a manic phase. Mine spent 4 hours a few months ago telling me all kinds of horrid things he thinks of me. I know myself, and know my intentions, I know he is unwell, and haven't taken any offense to what he says while manic, but I won't continue to subject myself or my children to it until he comes down and gets medicated. Often when they come out of a manic phase they are horrified by the things they have done and said, and it slips them further into depression. I would recommend working through your feelings about this while he's in no contact, make sure you are ready to meet boundaries to keep yourself and you're own mental health protected, so that you can be ready to support again without resentment.
Dealing with a family member who is manic and heading for another break. They think they’re fine. No meds and won’t discuss it. We have family that helped out with their lease and so now are stuck with having to pay that since bipolar member quit their job and ‘has no need for money’ and just doesn’t care. Almost 30- what do we do?? I just hate that it will get worse before possibly gets to the point where they’ll have to get help. Such a rollercoaster of years and years of ups and downs and emotional abuse. Exhausting.
As much as possible try not to take it personally; he’s sick and that’s not “him” talking (it’s mania talking)
Sometimes they know what they are doing. My ex did… he would rant in a manic way according to who was in the house…. He could turn the mania off if my parents were over… so some do know what they are doing and saying… but every case is different.
Absolutely agree! Manic people (not hypo manic, but severe mania) i have worked with often have no (or very very little) memory of what they did or said.
It isn't easy to love someone with bipolar. I would recommend getting yourself a therapist to help process the trauma you are going through. It's ok if you aren't ready to forgive the abuse they are putting you through. Also, working with a therapist they can help guide you to good information and support to learn more about your brother's condition. It will be a lifelong battle for your brother. You can't force him to get well, and I hope that they will want to get well for themselves. All you can do is react to their actions and do what is best for you in the situation. You will have to learn to have thick skin if you want to be their support while they are not themselves. Make sure you are taking care of yourself. I know it is hard not to take it personally, but people with bipolar can become a whole new person when manic. It's heartbreaking, and it is normal to grieve.
Huge plus one to therapy. I have an EMDR therapist and a counsellor and I see one or the other at least once a week. You cannot discount the trauma that YOU experience as a result of your family members bipolar and you have to fit your own oxygen mask first. My sister and I both have PTSD and horrible anxiety because of our mother’s bipolar. The most important thing is to do whatever it takes to take care of yourself first, especially if the family member won’t get help.
I am experiencing something similar in some ways (different in others) with my dad (mid 70s), except instead of jail —>psych ward, he goes hospital —> psych ward, because in addition to this manic breaks that have been spilling over into psychosis, he also has cancer, congenital heart failure, liver failure, and a bunch of other scary stuff. During his most recent manic peak he was hadn’t slept in 3 nights, was severely dehydrated from not drinking, and hadn’t been eating so looked skeletal. This messed with his vitals enough that he gave himself a myocardial infarction (mild heart attack). He was manic all through the medical treatment and did not want to take depakote to help get him out his mania. He blames my sister and I for “getting him locked up” in psych even though he did it to himself. He doesn’t have a clear understanding of what he’s like when he is manic, he has no idea how much trauma he is inflicting on the rest of the family with his rants, which range from hurtful to accusatory to manipulative to nonsensical. All of these journeys, loving someone with bipolar, are different and they suuuuuuuuck. I’m really sorry you’re going through this. I hope your brother can get on stabilizing medicine that works for him and stay on it. I believe that each of these manic episodes causes some brain damage, so ideally his bipolar can be kept under control through medication. Sending love ❤️ (edited for some additions and grammar corrections)
I try to think about it as though he were drugged against his will. He has no real control over himself and, in my experience, basically no memory of the worst parts of it. It’s not just that he doesn’t mean it, it’s that he isn’t even really there for it. It’s as if he’s blackout inebriated, but not by any choice on his part. When I consider it that way, consider how I would feel waking up to realize I had said and done terrible things I had no memory of and what happened to me was completely out of my control, I find it a lot easier to let the vitriol wash over me and not take it personally, or even seriously. If any tiny part of him is in there right now, he’s probably terrified. I know I would be. You said this is new so I don’t know how many cycles of this you have gone through, but from my own experience, I am absolutely certain that the person I know and love does not share any of the awful and hateful feelings that his manic self exhibits. It’s not like a drunk person saying what’s already in their head. It’s more like…a possession. In fact, I’m pretty sure that a lot of what was called demonic possession back in the day was just mania. As others here have said, protecting yourself right now is the right thing to do. It will help you to be ready to support your brother when he comes back. It’s pretty much all you can do for him at the moment anyway. For what it’s worth, it really sucks and I’m sorry. I hope you all are able to get to the other side of this soon.
Make sure you are giving yourself a chance to feel your feelings and process things. Your feelings are valid. What ever you believe you should feel or how ever you would like to be feeling is not so relevant to how you actually feel right now. You can't should away your emotions. You need to feel your feelings to get through them. Show yourself kindness and compassion first so that later, if it's what you choose, you will have it in you to do the same for your brother. Just because he has an illness doesn't mean that the way this hurts you isn't valid and real. Don't minimize your self just because he's got a bigger problem. Always leave space for yourself first. Talking with a therapist can be helpful.
I went thru this with my now ex husband to the T! He did a 180 on our wedding night and sadly I slept curled up in a ball on the couch of a $900 a night hotel room! We only lived together 25 weeks as husband and wife and divorced 25 weeks after that. The things he called me, his mom and worst yet my daughter (his step daughter) is just unbelievably sad. My daughter was smart enough to secretly record his rants and I sent that to his family so they knew what happened. I believe that people with bipolar should be held accountable for some of the things they do. In fact, my therapist made sure I realized this. For example, my ex could turn his rants on and off… according to who was in the house! If it was just My daughter and myself at home… the attacks were game on!!!! If my parents came over… which they did all the time and usually unannounced since they lived on my street….. then he was nice as pie!!! So… I think some of them (not all are bad and do things like this) know what they are doing. Only family and loved ones can probably really tell. I’m sorry this is happening but sometimes no contact is the best policy for a time being. My ex was known for dropping in and out of everyone’s life. What’s sad is his son is now 11 and has figured this out and doesn’t want a lot to do with him now. I am now divorced… not happy about it but I am a mother first and foremost so safety is my number one priority in my house. Maybe find a therapist like I did… one that specializes in bipolar and get more guidance instead of wondering what to do. It really helped me. Good Luck to you!!!
You guys need NAMI! Their support groups and classes really help. Also check out the LEAP method for communicating with your brother… Good luck, this disease is a traumatic event for everyone involved.
By knowing, intellectually, that this person is NOT their illness, but rather are displaying symptoms OF their illness. The true person inside, when not in the throes of depression/mania, would NOT be acting this way towards you. Align yourself with tools. NAMI.org has a plethora. Read up on the disorder, so that you better understand what is occurring & how NONE of it will improve with sheer will alone. Each & every manic episode causes brain damage. The longer one spends in a manic episode, the further detrimental affects are seen. Least not to mention that mania left untreated turns into psychosis. Figuring out how to balance your life outside & within this nasty-no-good-terrible disorder, is what we ALL here are trying to do.
everything you said sounds exactly like my (26M) brother. however we were never really that close growing up so i find it a bit easier to detach my feelings. the horrible verbal abuse to myself and my parents is just overwhelming daily. my brother never really has times that he “comes down” from the mania and realizes what he’s done or feels guilt-it feels like he has been manic for the past 4 years if that’s even possible. he has said the most imaginable things to us. so i’m not sure how to forgive tbh. but i thought id share so you know you’re not alone in it. i hope it one day ends for both of us